Teen shot over vandalizing McCain sign

[DAFTEK]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/28/yard.sign.shooting/index.html?iref=mpstoryview


(CNN) -- A Warren Township, Ohio, man faces charges of felonious assault after authorities say he fired his rifle at two teens who were attempting to deface his McCain presidential campaign yard sign.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/CRIME/10/28/yard.sign.shooting/art.sign.gi.jpg

Police say the man's sign is the only McCain sign on a street full of Obama signs.
Kenneth Rowles, 50, pleaded not guilty to the charge Monday, according to CNN affiliate WBNS.
Bail was set at $10,000.
Rowles told police he was sitting on his porch Saturday when a tan SUV pulled up and a black youth jumped out and ran toward his house, screaming, "This is for Obama."
He said another male was hanging out of the passenger window screaming the same thing.
Rowles said he went inside, got his rifle and fired three shots to scare the youths away, according to a Warren Township police report.
He told officers he believes that the men "were the same two that have been destroying his McCain (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/john_mccain) sign."
Just hours before the shooting, Rowles called police and said that a car had stopped in front of his house and that a black male "ran up and said something about Obama (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/barack_obama)," according to the report, and "damaged his sign again."
One of the youths, 17-year-old Kyree Flowers, was shot in the arm, according to a police report. He and the second youth, Patrick Wise Jr., 16, told police they were in the car attempting to leave when Rowles fired at them.
"Kyree stated that he witnessed the homeowner trying to shoot Patrick but he was having trouble chambering a round," the police report said.
The teens admitted that they had defaced the McCain sign several times, Warren Township police Lt. Don Bishop told CNN.
Rowles' is the only McCain sign on a street full of Obama signs, he said.
Bishop said the teenagers probably will not be charged -- and are unlikely to damage campaign signs again, as the incident scared them.
Warren Township is in Trumbull County not far from Cleveland, Ohio.

[dannno]

Is this another contrived event or what?

[Nirvikalpa]

Sorry, but I would have shot the kids too. Get the hell off my property. Violators will be shot; survivors shot again.

[Kludge]

Lol...

[RSLudlum]

I find that story hard to believe. Are those Obamaniacs really that damn crazy "THIS IS FOR OBAMAAAAAAA!!!!!!" LMFAO!!!!


At least, I give em fair warning by flying my "Don't Tread On Me" flag ;)

[Mach]

Sorry, but I would have shot the kids too. Get the hell off my property. Violators will be shot; survivors shot again.

That's just wrong, it's............................ violators will be shot; survivors will be hung. :D

Sounds like another fake one to me.

[RSLudlum]

Sounds like another fake one to me.


Exactly, sounds like a scene that belongs in South Park :p

[Penners]

Sorry, but I would have shot the kids too. Get the hell off my property. Violators will be shot; survivors shot again.

amen!

[QueenB4Liberty]

Sorry, but I would have shot the kids too. Get the hell off my property. Violators will be shot; survivors shot again.

Ditto

[Andrew-Austin]

SIGN WARS. Frustrated democracy in action.

Whoever puts up the most signs wins, whichever candidate has the most defaced signs loses.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Sorry, but I would have shot the kids too. Get the hell off my property. Violators will be shot; survivors shot again.Normally I'd say this kind of attitude is excessive, but...

two young black guys coming out of an SUV? I'd be cursing myself for not owning a gun if I saw that outside my window

[RSLudlum]

you mean to tell me that McCain supporters don't know the ole crisco sign trick?? I guess they really do need us to teach them a thing or two!! :p

[phixion]

How mental do you have to be if you're a black youth (more in one number) pulling up and running in to an older white males garden screaming mysterious threats and destroying his personal property?

That's exactly the kind of thing you get shot for. They need to wise up.

Pete

[dr. hfn]

obama zombies

[DAFTEK]

Regardless, the man should have never fired his gun on some stupid black kids stealing signs... He deserves whats coming.

[RedLightning]

Mess with private property you get what you deserve.

[Andrew-Austin]

How mental do you have to be if you're a black youth (more in one number) pulling up and running in to an older white males garden screaming mysterious threats and destroying his personal property?

That's exactly the kind of thing you get shot for. They need to wise up.

Pete

He might as well have screamed "black power!"

Thought I don't really sympathize with the shooter...

[Athan]

Lol

[M House]

Um killing someone for taking a campaign sign seems a bit drastic. I know we kill people for less these days but common people it's a McCain sign. Seriously if you went to jail for killing someone over that wouldn't you feel like the biggest tool.

[AaronC]

I read then all the assumptions that it is fake, but i still can't figure out which campaign would want this kind of publicity...
The general message i get here is that extreme support for either party is from idiots...

[moostraks]

Crap...this is just a few blocks from my house!!!

I don't think its bs guys. I am in the land of Obama signs. I, alas, have up Ron Paul signs with end the fed on them!!! Everyone thinks I'm crackers (excepting fellow RP supporters) so I guess they just leave us alone...

The area he is in is not the safest area and tension is probably high with all the race baiting our area politicians are playing. If you listened to area radio shows you would swear all white folks are racist unless you bridge that gap and vote for Obama.

Here's a link to what appears to be the police report on this incident: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1028081mccain1.html?link=rssfeed

[angelatc]

Regardless, the man should have never fired his gun on some stupid black kids stealing signs... He deserves whats coming.

Nonsense. He should have a right to protect his property. He didn't shoot them, he scared them, and it sounds like they needed it.

My Dad did something like this once, except he didn't actually fire the shotgun. He got off.

[angelatc]

Here's a link to what appears to be the police report on this incident: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1028081mccain1.html?link=rssfeed

Sheesh - the cop is almost illiterate.

[DAFTEK]

Nonsense. He should have a right to protect his property. He didn't shoot them, he scared them, and it sounds like they needed it.

My Dad did something like this once, except he didn't actually fire the shotgun. He got off.

He shoot one of the idiots in the arm Angie, i hated guns but i became a gun owner also after i have been robbed while in the house sleeping, my daughter and wife wore traumatized by that event, but running to get my guns to stop some kids stealing signs is not a reason for me to get my shotgun!

[angelatc]

He shoot one of the idiots in the arm Angie, i hated guns but i became a gun owner also after i have been robbed while in the house sleeping, my daughter and wife wore traumatized by that event, but running to get my guns to stop some kids stealing signs is not a reason for me to get my shotgun!

In a neighborhood like that you have to though, or else they come back for the car next time.

Was he really supposed to just sit on the porch and watch them?

Shooting the kid in the arm is probably overkill - just waving the gun or shooting in the air would have been enough, but property is property and thugs are thugs.

[DAFTEK]

He shot at the SUV also braking its windows while the teens wore trying to get away. I personally think he was stupid for what he did and should suffer the consequences, it sets a bad example for other gun owners..

[DAFTEK]

Look what gun owners have to say about it.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xdtalk-chatter-box/88836-teen-shot-over-vandalizing-mccain-sign-police-say.html

[orafi]

That's just wrong, it's............................ violators will be shot; survivors will be hung. :D

Sounds like another fake one to me.

you don't hang black people man! that's political suicide!

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Those teens violated property rights, they deserve to be shot.

[Mini-Me]

While people have the right to protect their property, shooting someone over a sign is just overkill and bad judgment. There's a huge difference between shooting someone who's breaking and entering and shooting someone who is taking a 10 dollar sign, when you can just write down their license plate number and/or scare them off with a baseball bat. Either that or just start shooting holes into the frame of their pretty SUV instead. ;)
EDIT: Ah, I see he did that anyway.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

While people have the right to protect their property, shooting someone over a sign is just overkill and bad judgment. If it were me, I would've shot holes into the frame of their SUV instead. ;)

It's none of our business if the owner decided to execute them. What part of staying out of the internal affairs of others do you not understand?

[brandon]

No one deserves to be shot for damaging a freaking campaign sign. Be realistic.

Now if these kids were either

Attempting to enter the landowners house
Acting in a manner that threatened the well being of the home owner or his family

Then using deadly force in self defense is warranted. But not for simply damaging a sign. Get real. Both parties should face criminal charges.

The landowner should have simply approached the trespassers with his weapon aimed at them and either detained them until the police arrived or told them to GTFO. There was no reason to discharge the weapon.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

No one deserves to be shot for damaging a freaking campaign sign. Be realistic.

Now if these kids were either

Attempting to enter the landowners house
Acting in a manner that threatened the well being of the home owner or his family

Then using deadly force in self defense is warranted. But not for simply damaging a sign. Get real. Both parties should face criminal charges.

That's how people learn. Some people have to be made an example of.

[Mini-Me]

It's none of our business if the owner decided to execute them. What part of staying out of the internal affairs of others do you not understand?

What part of the proportionate use of force do YOU not understand? Not all crimes are equal.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

What part of the proportionate use of force do YOU not understand?

And you wonder why property rights are not respected...

[Mini-Me]

And you wonder why property rights are not respected...

Why, because the penalty for every crime isn't death? Get real.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Why, because the penalty for every crime isn't death? Get real.

What would've happened back in the wild west?

[Mini-Me]

What would've happened back in the wild west?

Does it matter?

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Does it matter?

Yeah. That's when individual liberty mattered.

[Mini-Me]

Yeah. That's when individual liberty mattered.

Individual liberty is far more than just property rights. It includes the rights to life and liberty, as well...and when you violate someone's rights, you only sacrifice your own in proportion.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Individual liberty is far more than just property rights. It includes the rights to life and liberty, as well...and when you violate someone's rights, you only sacrifice your own in proportion.

I never read about that "in proportion" part lol.

[Mini-Me]

I never read about that "in proportion" part lol.

...so?

[JosephTheLibertarian]

...so?

Now you know how it was better before women were allowed to vote.

[Mini-Me]

Now you know how it was better before women were allowed to vote.

Yes, because real men kill people over minor offenses and know not the meaning of restraint. :rolleyes:
As support for your position, you may be able to point to LaVeyan Satanism and the "one law" implication of its 11th Commandment, "When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them." However, they're not exactly the be all and end all of rights-based philosophy. ;) Any coherent description of rights and obligations to uphold them will not demand "death" as payment for all violations, because not all crimes are equal.

[DAFTEK]

Joe is of his meds again.... :rolleyes:

[phixion]

How else was he supposed to stop them coming back on his property and enforce his rights?

They had a huge lack of respect for his rights.

He doesn't know if they're packing pistols themselves. They're young black males who are mostly all heavily influenced by violent aggressive culture and they're running out of an SUV in to your garden screaming this is for Obama.

What do you do?

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEIR INTENTIONS ARE, NOR DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR LIFE MAY BE IN DANGER.

They have no right to be there and there's the very real possibility of them coming to hurt you and further damage your property or yourself.

You have no way of knowing what their full intentions are.

And it's entirely up to the guy who owns the property.

It's FINE if he shoots them.
It's FINE if he fires warning shots.

It's completely and utterly up to him what he does.

He didn't create the situation.

They did.

Pete

[Paulitician]

Well, shooting them or shooting at them is rather extreme, but I want to know by what right do these fuckers have to go on his property and deface his possessions?

[mport1]

It is pretty absurd how violent things are getting between the supporters of McCain and Obama. They fail to realize that the two are practically the same candidate.

[DAFTEK]

It is pretty absurd how violent things are getting between the supporters of McCain and Obama. They fail to realize that the two are practically the same candidate.
Yup :) I predict riots regardless who wins. Reasons for Marshall Law? :rolleyes:

[newyearsrevolution08]

Well, shooting them or shooting at them is rather extreme, but I want to know by what right do these fuckers have to go on his property and deface his possessions?

exactly and until we are put in that situation would we know what we would actually do. In the same breath, if I felt as though something BESIDES a sign getting messed with was going to happen, I too would be ready to fight or defend myself based on someone just stopping at my pad and telling me anything along the lines of "this is for ......". To me that does not sound like the start of anything good.

There was a reason why people don't steal other peoples horses and cattle, they used to get SHOT for it. Nowadays you can almost kill someone and STILL be able to sue the person if they shot you wrong or at the wrong time. All backwards.

[RonPaulR3VOLUTION]

I don't consider defending your life immoral, and your property is part of your life.

If you disagree, tell everyone where you live so they may show up and acquire it.

The philosophy of liberty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeWHmehAH28

If you do not have the right to defend your property, whose right is it?

By the way, I feel the same if it was someone trying to steal the property of someone supporting Obama, McCain, Ron Paul, whomever, or no one.

[dsentell]

I understand where the McCain supporter is coming from.

I still proudly have a Ron Paul for President sign in yard. Someone (the lady across the street says young black males) keeps tearing it down and throwing it in the ditch or on the road. Makes my husband so mad that people are trespassing and damaging our property, that he has threatened to keep watch with a shotgun in hand.

[satchelmcqueen]

i say they deserved the shot. you cant ever make me believe these 2 guys didnt know any better. i would have shot in the air first, but that doesnt mean that i "have" to fire a warning shot. mess with property that isnt yours and i think you just have to live with whatever comes your way for doing so...which is why i dont mess with property that isnt mine.

COMMON SENSE.


besides, this was a bullying tactic and the old man has probably learned in life how to persuade bullies to go away.

the 2 guys got lucky.

[satchelmcqueen]

I understand where the McCain supporter is coming from.

I still proudly have a Ron Paul for President sign in yard. Someone (the lady across the street says young black males) keeps tearing it down and throwing it in the ditch or on the road. Makes my husband so mad that people are trespassing and damaging our property, that he has threatened to keep watch with a shotgun in hand.

tell him to mix deer piss with pepper spray and put it all over the sign. they wont touch it again.
film it and let me see it for a laugh.

[The_Orlonater]

Sorry, but I would have shot the kids too. Get the hell off my property. Violators will be shot; survivors shot again.

I can imagine it now.

A bunch of kids walking on the sidewalk and dribbling a soccer ball, and they lost control. Ah shoot, it's on give.me.liberty's property! The kids walk on her luxurious property, and she pulls out her Remington 870 and boom! We got some delicious goulash.

Oh, yeah. :cool:

Oh, the hypocrisy of paleo-cons.

[The_Orlonater]

Normally I'd say this kind of attitude is excessive, but...

two young black guys coming out of an SUV? I'd be cursing myself for not owning a gun if I saw that outside my window

Becuz da niggaz are evil.

Aryan Nation!

http://www.kkkk.net/missouri/defenders.gif

[Nirvikalpa]

I can imagine it now.

A bunch of kids walking on the sidewalk and dribbling a soccer ball, and they lost control. Ah shoot, it's on give.me.liberty's property! The kids walk on her luxurious property, and she pulls out her Remington 870 and boom! We got some delicious goulash.

Oh, yeah. :cool:

Oh, the hypocrisy of paleo-cons.

:rolleyes:

At least you know not to dribble your soccer ball near my house. :D

[The_Orlonater]

:rolleyes:

At least you know not to dribble your soccer ball near my house. :D

Did you roll your eyes because you missed? I am a quick runner.

[Nirvikalpa]

Did you roll your eyes because you missed? I am a quick runner.

I rolled my eyes because I never saw anyone dribbling a soccer ball.

[DAFTEK]

^ lol :D Someone call hands on that soccer ball....

[The_Orlonater]

I rolled my eyes because I never saw anyone dribbling a soccer ball.

Times are tough. What if your walking? Walkin' gets boring.

SO YOU DRIBBLE!

[Roxi]

in new hampshire its a felony to steal or damage campaign signs

[The_Orlonater]

in new hampshire its a felony to steal or damage campaign signs

That, I don't necessarily disagree with.

[brandon]

You're all freaking crazy.

I would have never lived passed the age of 13 if it was common practice to shoot kids for walking on your yard.

[evilfunnystuff]

You're all freaking crazy.

I would have never lived passed the age of 13 if it was common practice to shoot kids for walking on your yard.

walking into a yard and running into a yard screaming "this is for ... " are 2 totally different things

even if they were stealing the sign i probly wouldnt have fired but scream threats while charging into my yard and its fuckin on

[JosephTheLibertarian]

We know that they're socialist Obama supporters...