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EastWindRain
10-27-2008, 09:29 PM
They obviously have something to hide. Obama was born in Kenya not Hawaii and thus can not be President.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174

sevin
10-27-2008, 09:40 PM
but he will be. :(

nodope0695
10-27-2008, 10:06 PM
Strange how the MSM gives Obama a pass on this and many more issues...We're fucked, plain and simple. We will witness first hand the death of the United States. This will surely go down in history as the fall of Rome did.

bojo68
10-27-2008, 10:39 PM
They obviously have something to hide. Obama was born in Kenya not Hawaii and thus can not be President.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174


Ya know it could be that they believe that citizens(in general, not necessarily Obama) have a right to PRIVACY, kinda like specified in the bill of rights.(I don't believe privacy stems from Roe vs. Wade)

Matt Collins
10-27-2008, 10:42 PM
They obviously have something to hide.Why, just because they are not releasing it? That doesn't mean they have something to hide.

Why don't you let the world see your hard drive? Why don't you let the cop search your car? After all, if you have nothing to hide, why worry?

I realize this is an entirely different situation (guy is running for President, his place of birth has come into question etc), however the same [dis]logic of "they won't show so they must have something to hide" is a complete farce.


Obama should release his birth certificate, if for no other reason than to shut everyone up about it. And by not releasing it it does indeed make him look more and more suspicious at least in the court of public opinion. But he is not guilty because he refuses to release it.

MGreen
10-27-2008, 10:55 PM
You realize Lingle's a Republican, right? And she's a pretty big supporter of McCain.

libertarian4321
10-27-2008, 10:57 PM
They obviously have something to hide. Obama was born in Kenya not Hawaii and thus can not be President.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174

Yes, I'm sure the REPUBLICAN governor of Hawaii is "in the tank" for Obama, lol.

Its a conspiracy, folks- bigger than black helicopters, building 7, CFR, Bilderbergs, and the lone gunman theory combined...

(I just love to stir the crazies up...)

fr33domfightr
10-27-2008, 10:58 PM
Your Birth Certificate is private, however, when you run for the office of the presidency, you must be a natural born citizen. Therefore, the person running for the office must relinquish that right to someone of authority, in order to verify their eligibility.

My employer doesn't have the right to examine my hard drive, but they do have a right to see my birth certificate if I must be a natural born citizen, which is what *I* had to do for employment.


FF

libertarian4321
10-27-2008, 11:02 PM
Oh, one more thing.

If Hawaii is able to "seal" Obama's Hawaiin birth certificate, it means Obama has a Hawaiian birth certificate.

I know some of you aren't very bright, so I'll lead you through this.

If Obama has a "Hawaiian birth certificate" to seal, he was born in Hawaii, not Kenya or Mars or whatever. He is therefore eligible to run for President. Duh?

JK/SEA
10-27-2008, 11:08 PM
You sure about that? Could be his records were transfered when he landed in Hawaii. No?

Also, what does the Governor of Hawaii have to do with anything? I don't believe the Governor has jurisdiction over this case. No?

RockEnds
10-27-2008, 11:19 PM
Oh, one more thing.

If Hawaii is able to "seal" Obama's Hawaiin birth certificate, it means Obama has a Hawaiian birth certificate.

I know some of you aren't very bright, so I'll lead you through this.

If Obama has a "Hawaiian birth certificate" to seal, he was born in Hawaii, not Kenya or Mars or whatever. He is therefore eligible to run for President. Duh?

No, not necessarily. I know it's really hard to understand for those who are not adopted, but for real, the states change these things all the time. For instance, I tried to help my former daughter-in-law get a copy of her birth certificate recently. She was born in Alabama. When she was 12, she was adopted in Iowa. For some completely unknown reason, the Iowa judge decided she was born in Georgia. She has actually never set foot in the state of Georgia. She was not born there. Yet, the state of Georgia issued her an officially stamped birth certificate.

I'm not saying Obama wasn't born in Hawaii, but I am saying it is extremely naive to believe states do not alter these records on a whim. The only way to tell if the information on someone's birth certificate is authentic or not is to get into the vault.

Edit: Well, the reason isn't completely unknown. She had an older sibling who was born in Georgia. We figure it was easier for the judge to just issue new certificates out of the same state regardless of the facts of the actual births.

Alawn
10-27-2008, 11:25 PM
Oh, one more thing.

If Hawaii is able to "seal" Obama's Hawaiin birth certificate, it means Obama has a Hawaiian birth certificate.

I know some of you aren't very bright, so I'll lead you through this.

If Obama has a "Hawaiian birth certificate" to seal, he was born in Hawaii, not Kenya or Mars or whatever. He is therefore eligible to run for President. Duh?

Wrong. Hawaii allows you to register birth of naturalized babies when they come into the country if a parent is a citizen. They have a record it just probably says he was born outside of the country.

linusPAULing
10-27-2008, 11:36 PM
Oh, one more thing.

If Hawaii is able to "seal" Obama's Hawaiin birth certificate, it means Obama has a Hawaiian birth certificate.

I know some of you aren't very bright, so I'll lead you through this.

If Obama has a "Hawaiian birth certificate" to seal, he was born in Hawaii, not Kenya or Mars or whatever. He is therefore eligible to run for President. Duh?

It never ceases to amaze me how rude people can be on the web. I would have wished better than this from a Ron Paul supporter, given Ron's example, but what can you do :(

tonesforjonesbones
10-28-2008, 12:20 AM
Well ...why doesn't The Komrade just show the dang birth certificate if he has nothing to hide? What is the big deal? This is a bullcrap election...nothing sticks to that clown. He has to PROVE he was born in the USA. I can't believe ANYONE would defend the actions of what has gone on with this fiasco of a campaign. i didn't think it could get any more crooked than that new orleans election for Nagan...but this takes the cake. ToNeS

RonPaulR3VOLUTION
10-28-2008, 12:20 AM
"Today, we mark an important milestone on the path to greater government transparency." --Obama

Note: I have no stance on his citizenship.

cheapseats
10-28-2008, 12:59 AM
Barack Obama is making a bid for the presidency of the United States and his background is off limits. A reasonable mind HAS to ask, why is that? The Muslim question sends Obama Fans into conniption fits and settles all manner of insult upon the Doubter. Again, why is that?

How are Obama Fans so sure that the man who purposefully elected to be called BARACK rather than Barry, as he had been called during his posh private high school years, is not a Muslim? I have read and heard and read and heard about the man, and I am NOT sure. And I am NOT not sure because I'm a McCain fan, that's for sure. The only reason people seem to be sure that Barack Hussein Obama is not Muslim is because Barack Hussein Obama says so.

I have little regard for John McCain and I am repulsed by the Republican party, but I am also repulsed by the Democratic party. A CHILD can see that Washington DC is one big game of Liar Liar Pants On Fire.

They lie to us, then they lie to cover up the lies, then they lie to cover up the cover ups but, somehow, miraculously, everything that comes out of Barack Hussein Obama's mouth is tried and true? How are people making that leap of faith, and why?

I am not a practicing Catholic. How could I be, in view of the Catholic Church's horrifying accommodation of child molestation? I quit.

But I was born to a Catholic man and, believe you me, the Baltimore Catechism that was drilled into my head during my formative years is absolutely the gift that keeps on giving.

An Obama Fan will say that Obama wasn't raised in a religious household...but an Obama supporter will say that because that's what Obama says. Who the hell knows what kind of household in Jakarta, Indonesia framed his formative years?

Osama Bin Laden was recruited out of a posh private high school in London, by one of his instructors.

HOW ARE OBAMA FANS SO SURE THAT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS WHO AND WHAT HE CLAIMS TO BE?

nbhadja
10-28-2008, 01:20 AM
You realize Lingle's a Republican, right? And she's a pretty big supporter of McCain.

Yes because we know how different McCain and Obama are :rolleyes:

It's amazingly easy to spot out Obama supporters on this forum.
That libertarian fellow is a hardcore Obama supporter.

Truth Warrior
10-28-2008, 04:06 AM
http://obamacrimes.com/attachments/041_Motion%20for%20Expedited%20Ruling,Hearing,%20o r%20Resolution%20re%20Summary%20Judgment%20Motion% 20102208.pdf (http://obamacrimes.com/attachments/041_Motion%20for%20Expedited%20Ruling,Hearing,%20o r%20Resolution%20re%20Summary%20Judgment%20Motion% 20102208.pdf)

Truth Warrior
10-28-2008, 04:36 AM
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Obama's birth certificate sealed by Hawaii governor
Says Democratic senator must make request to obtain original document

Posted: October 26, 2008
9:54 pm Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
WorldNetDaily

HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle (governor.lingle@hawaii.gov) has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.

The governor's office officially declined a request made in writing by WND in Hawaii to obtain a copy of the hospital-generated original birth certificate of Barack Obama.

"It does not appear that Dr. Corsi is within any of these categories of persons with a direct and tangible interest in the birth certificate he seeks," wrote Roz Makuala, manager of constituent services in the governor's office, in an e-mailed response to a WND request seeking the information.

Those listed as entitled to obtain a copy of an original birth certificate include the person born, or "registrant" according to the legal description from the governor's office, the spouse or parent of the registrant, a descendant of the registrant, a person having a common ancestor with the registrant, a legal guardian of the registrant, or a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant.


WND was told the official reason for denial of access to Obama's birth certificate would be authority granted pursuant to Section 338-18 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, a provision the anonymous source claimed was designed to prevent identity theft.

Still, the source told WND confidentially the motivation for withholding the original birth certificate was political, although the source refused to disclose whether there was any information on the original birth certificate that would prove politically embarrassing to Obama.

Get the book that started it all, Jerome Corsi's "The Obama Nation," autographed by the author, exclusively from WND's online store for the amazing low price of just $4.95. (http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74350)

The source also refused to answer WND's question whether the original document on file with the Department of Health was a hospital-generated birth certificate or a registration of birth that may have been filed subsequent to the birth.

The anonymous source made clear the Hawaii Department of Health would immediately release Obama's original birth certificate, provided Obama requested the document be released, but the Department of Heath has received no such request from the senator or from anyone acting officially on his behalf.

WND also found on microfilm in the Honolulu downtown public library a notice published under the "Births, Marriages, Deaths" section of the Honolulu Sunday Advertiser for August 13, 1961, on page B-6, noting: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack II Obama. 6085 Kalanianaole-Hwy, son, Aug. 4."

In searching through the birth notices of the Honolulu Advertiser for 1961, WND found many birth notices were published between one and two weeks after the date of birth listed.

The notice in the Honolulu Advertiser does not list the hospital where the Obama son was born or the doctor who delivered the baby.

In a startling development, Obama's Kenyan grandmother has reportedly alleged she witnessed Obama's birth at the Coast Provincial Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.

Friday, U.S. Federal judge Richard Barclay Surrick, a Clinton appointee, dismissed a lawsuit brought by Pennsylvania attorney Phillip J. Berg who alleged Obama was not a U.S. "natural born" citizen and therefore ineligible for the presidency under the specifications of the U.S. Constitution, under Article II, Section 1.

Berg told WND last week he does not have a copy of a Kenyan birth certificate for Obama that he alleges exists.

In Kenya, WND was told by government authorities that all documents concerning Obama were under seal until after the U.S. presidential election on November 4.

The Obama campaign website entitled "Fight the Smears" posts a state of Hawaii "Certificate of Live Birth" (http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate) which is obviously not the original birth certificate generated by the hospital where Obama reportedly was born.

"Fight the Smears" declares, "The truth is, Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a native citizen of the United States of America."

Although the Obama campaign could immediately put an end to all the challenges by simply producing the candidate's original birth certificate, it has not done so. And the "Fight the Smears" website offers no explanation as to why Obama has refused to request, and make public, an original hospital-generated birth certificate which the Hawaii Department of Health may possess.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174 (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174)

Truth Warrior
10-28-2008, 04:49 AM
It seems to me that the judge ( Clinton appointed ) that ruled against Berg should obviously have recused himself on this issue due to a possible appearance of conflict of "political" interest. :rolleyes:

freelance
10-28-2008, 06:05 AM
No, not necessarily. I know it's really hard to understand for those who are not adopted, but for real, the states change these things all the time. For instance, I tried to help my former daughter-in-law get a copy of her birth certificate recently. She was born in Alabama. When she was 12, she was adopted in Iowa. For some completely unknown reason, the Iowa judge decided she was born in Georgia. She has actually never set foot in the state of Georgia. She was not born there. Yet, the state of Georgia issued her an officially stamped birth certificate.

I'm not saying Obama wasn't born in Hawaii, but I am saying it is extremely naive to believe states do not alter these records on a whim. The only way to tell if the information on someone's birth certificate is authentic or not is to get into the vault.

Edit: Well, the reason isn't completely unknown. She had an older sibling who was born in Georgia. We figure it was easier for the judge to just issue new certificates out of the same state regardless of the facts of the actual births.

Even if you're not adopted, your birth certificate can be changed, and often is. Usually, it means nothing. Mine was changed, and I discovered it about 20 years ago when I needed a new, certified copy.

The original birth certificate that I had in my possession had not been amended. When I needed a new certified copy, I noticed that it had been amended. I called the state, and they said that they are often changed after birth (meaning up to a few months after birth) when they receive the final paperwork from the doctor.

Of course when I first saw it, I figured I had been adopted. THAT was an interesting phone call home with me calling my parents liars, etc. LOL!

In my case, it appeared that one of my parent's names was slightly changed. IIRC, it was my mother's middle initial from her maiden name initial to her middle name initial--something trivial like that. ANY change is considered an amendment.

I have no idea what is up with Obama's birth certificate. I find it hard to believe that if everything is in order that they would go to these lengths to quash all investigative efforts, given the constitutional requirements.

tonesforjonesbones
10-28-2008, 06:06 AM
The Komrade is stealing this election. Maybe those New World order people want him for some reaons...perhaps because they want to go into Africa...and the Africans would trust Obama...you know, so they can steal Africa's stuff this go round. Tones

freelance
10-28-2008, 06:11 AM
The Komrade is stealing this election. Maybe those New World order people want him for some reaons...perhaps because they want to go into Africa...and the Africans would trust Obama...you know, so they can steal Africa's stuff this go round. Tones

Tones, last month I sat next to a mercenary on the airplane. We talked for an hour and a half. He is leaving KBR to go with Dyncorp in January. He was going home for a couple of weeks and then off to intensive training. He's going to Africa. He said that the mission is to rape Africa of all of their natural resources. He also said that the government is broke, so this is a corporate thing. I said, "ALL of their resources, including De Beers?" He said, "De Beers is no match for us." This was one of the strangest conversations I've had in a long time.

Truth Warrior
10-28-2008, 06:12 AM
The Komrade is stealing this election. Maybe those New World order people want him for some reaons...perhaps because they want to go into Africa...and the Africans would trust Obama...you know, so they can steal Africa's stuff this go round. Tones Perhaps merely to establish a Constitution breaking precedent to allow additional future FOREIGN born POTUS candidates to run ................... like Arnold, for instance. :eek:

tonesforjonesbones
10-28-2008, 06:16 AM
Well Truth..maybe that too! Hmmm...Lets just elect Ahamadinijad.

i had an epiphany months ago..maybe almost a year ago that Obammy would be put forth to go into Africa for their goods. Russia and China are already down there building infrastructure..and that just won't do ya know??/ interesing info to the poster up above. I guess The Komrade is merely another useful idiot. TONES

Truth Warrior
10-28-2008, 06:25 AM
Well Truth..maybe that too! Hmmm...Lets just elect Ahamadinijad.

i had an epiphany months ago..maybe almost a year ago that Obammy would be put forth to go into Africa for their goods. Russia and China are already down there building infrastructure..and that just won't do ya know??/ interesing info to the poster up above. I guess The Komrade is merely another useful idiot. TONES The Western nation's governments have been in major competition for the robbing and plundering of the African resources for centuries now. Kinda like the Spanish in Central and South America did.

S.O.S.<IMHO> :rolleyes:

tonesforjonesbones
10-28-2008, 06:41 AM
The New African Snakes of America! it's da shizzle. tones

HOLLYWOOD
10-28-2008, 06:51 AM
Kenya Sealing records...
Hawaii sealing records...

Anything else governments wants to do to keep the people from knowing the truth?

Lets see... TELECOMS received retroactive immunity from the government via campaign donations. I wonder what the FINANCIAL GAINS or THREATS for KEYNA and HAWAII on all this.

One thing I did fine particular donations:

Lingle, Linda The Honora
Honolulu , HI 96813
State of Hawaii/Governor <==== look at her campaign donations via EARMARKS?

JENKINS, LYNN (R)
House (KS 02)
earmarked via WISH LIST, THE
COLLINS, SUSAN M (R)
Senate - ME
earmarked via WISH LIST, THE
CAPITO, SHELLEY MOORE (R)
House (WV 02)
earmarked via WISH LIST, THE

EARMARKED?

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=HI&last=Lingle&first=Linda (http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=HI&last=Lingle&first=Linda)

here's the "THE WISH LIST":
http://www.thewishlist.org/ (http://www.thewishlist.org/)

rancher89
10-28-2008, 07:11 AM
Tones, last month I sat next to a mercenary on the airplane. We talked for an hour and a half. He is leaving KBR to go with Dyncorp in January. He was going home for a couple of weeks and then off to intensive training. He's going to Africa. He said that the mission is to rape Africa of all of their natural resources. He also said that the government is broke, so this is a corporate thing. I said, "ALL of their resources, including De Beers?" He said, "De Beers is no match for us." This was one of the strangest conversations I've had in a long time.


Interesting isn't it, what one will hear on an airplane that you wouldn't hear anywhere else? It's like you have complete immunity--nothing you say can be held against you, almost like a confessional. I had quite the conversation with a nationally known "Beer" girl who was maybe 10-15 years older than you would have expected and didn't look her age at all. She spoke and read 5 languages and was a biblical scholar. THAT was an interesting 2 hours...she did walk away with a "Manifesto!" Pay it forward

Mahkato
10-28-2008, 07:17 AM
Is anyone else getting annoyed that the word "Hawaii" is autotagged on this forum?

Truth Warrior
10-28-2008, 07:23 AM
Is anyone else getting annoyed that the word "Hawaii" is autotagged on this forum? Sorry, there's bigger battles to wage, and fish to fry.<IMHO> :rolleyes:

acptulsa
10-28-2008, 07:32 AM
...and as MGreen pointed out Obama and the Governor are not friends, not even same party.

Kool-Aid. No, not even that. Flavor-Aid.

Do you honestly not see that there are more important things to these power brokers than party? Many, much more important things.

Look at Coke and Pepsi. The bastards advertise for each other just to keep Royal Crown relegated to also-ran status. Both Coke and Pepsi are far, far more interested in convincing you there are only two colas in the whole world worth drinking than in beating each other. Stop and think about it. Look at their history over the last forty years.

Same thing, different product. Wake up. Whenever you hear of a bipartisan effort in Washington, watch your wallet and your ass. Right?

DAFTEK
10-28-2008, 07:37 AM
http://bp0.blogger.com/_31FBnpzcqHs/SBnfj5oyy-I/AAAAAAAAA7k/uCumeH4MYrk/s400/obizzle+fo+shizzle.jpg

HOLLYWOOD
10-28-2008, 07:46 AM
Thank you,


What the hell is wrong with the rest of you, its like saying the government can check your emails because you don't have anything to hide right? You guys will let other people have their liberties thrown in the toilette but not your own? Leave the man alone, and respect his privacy he already released a document of his birth certificate, and as MGreen pointed out Obama and the Governor are not friends, not even same party.

They are (POLITICIANS) PUBLIC officials... FREEDOM of INFORMATION ACT allows access to records.

Hamadeh's "ANALOGY of associating this with violation of right to privacy is totally BOGUS is UNWarranted

This is for the Royal Imperial Leader of the TOTALITARIAN FASCIST government of the United States position. Shouldn't there be TRANSPARENCY?

IGNORANCE is BLISS!

Let's believe what the party in QUESTION has provided and ask NO MORE and SEAL EVERYTHING.:rolleyes:

Truth Warrior
10-28-2008, 07:48 AM
Thank you,


What the hell is wrong with the rest of you, its like saying the government can check your emails because you don't have anything to hide right? You guys will let other people have their liberties thrown in the toilette but not your own? Leave the man alone, and respect his privacy he already released a document of his birth certificate, and as MGreen pointed out Obama and the Governor are not friends, not even same party. Public figures have NO privacy.

If you want ( need ) private then just choose to stay private. Once public is chosen, all bets are off. If your character or integrity, OR lack thereof, is questionable and unable to stand up to public scrutiny, then staying private is the preferable choice.<IMHO>

BTW, public vs private behavior is merely a "made up" false and bogus human behavioral differentiation in the first place. :p :rolleyes:

pepperpete1
10-28-2008, 07:50 AM
So, how is Grandma doing?

HOLLYWOOD
10-28-2008, 07:51 AM
Kool-Aid. No, not even that. Flavor-Aid.

Do you honestly not see that there are more important things to these power brokers than party? Many, much more important things.

Look at Coke and Pepsi. The bastards advertise for each other just to keep Royal Crown relegated to also-ran status. Both Coke and Pepsi are far, far more interested in convincing you there are only two colas in the whole world worth drinking than in beating each other. Stop and think about it. Look at their history over the last forty years.

Same thing, different product. Wake up. Whenever you hear of a bipartisan effort in Washington, watch your wallet and your ass. Right?

AMEN BROTHA!!!

This is what IGNORANCE Americans KEEPS forgetting. You know the Earmarks and Federal funds are on their way to HAWAII!

Coke and Pepsi... Evil & Evil, just leaves a different sour taste in your mouth

Ninja Homer
10-28-2008, 08:49 AM
While none of this proves that Obama was born in Kenya, it all builds up suspicion.

Why did the Obama campaign post a fake Hawaii birth certificate? http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate Proven fake beyond a shadow of a doubt: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

Why did Obama campaign have attorneys try to stall the case until after the election?

Why has Kenya sealed all documents concerning Obama until after the election?

All of this doubt and suspicion can be wiped out if Obama would simply produce his birth certificate.

Even if Obama is a natural born citizen, he would have had to give up his US citizenship to attend public school in Indonesia. If he didn't go through immigration and regain his citizenship when he came back to the US, he may not even currently be a US citizen. Watch this video of the lawyer explaining the case: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6_k3NtXZs

McCain has released his birth certificate, why not Obama? Think of it this way... Obama wants to be OUR employee. One of the requirements for this position is being a natural born citizen. Obama should produce evidence that he is a natural born citizen to all of us. If he can't, he doesn't get the job.

Serious question: What happens if Obama wins the election, and then this info is released, and it turns out that Obama is NOT a natural born citizen, and is therefore not eligible as POTUS?

Does Biden take the job? Does McCain get it? Does Bush retain office while this is all figured out in a long court battle?

acptulsa
10-28-2008, 09:01 AM
Serious question: What happens if Obama wins the election, and then this info is released, and it turns out that Obama is NOT a natural born citizen, and is therefore not eligible as POTUS?

Does Biden take the job? Does McCain get it? Does Bush retain office while this is all figured out in a long court battle?

Biden, I believe. I think it's covered by the Twentieth Amendment:

Section 3
If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

Biden would get to choose his own vp.

RevolutionSD
10-28-2008, 09:10 AM
Strange how the MSM gives Obama a pass on this and many more issues...We're fucked, plain and simple. We will witness first hand the death of the United States. This will surely go down in history as the fall of Rome did.

How is it strange they are giving Obama a pass?

They gave Clinton passes on most things, they gave Bush a pass on nearly everything...the problem is the system, not just one candidate one politician. You're right though, we're fucked.

Ninja Homer
10-28-2008, 09:17 AM
Biden, I believe. I think it's covered by the Twentieth Amendment:

Section 3
If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

Biden would get to choose his own vp.

Thanks, at least I'm relieved that Bush won't retain office. :eek:

acptulsa
10-28-2008, 09:21 AM
Thanks, at least I'm relieved that Bush won't retain office. :eek:

UnConstitutional.

Or, to put it another way, over my dead body.

klamath
10-28-2008, 09:25 AM
If there is any validity to this story for Gods sake wait until after the election! If it comes out now McCain would probably win. Greaaaat!:rolleyes:. If this comes out after the election that is exactly what we want. The new Obama administration emboiled in a huge legal battle plus caught in a huge lie right off the bat. GOOD BYE TO THE MANDATE AND PASSAGE OF ALL HIS SOCIALISM. DEADLOCKED GOVERNMENT FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS! YEAAAW. HOLDING PATTERN.

acptulsa
10-28-2008, 09:31 AM
If there is any validity to this story for Gods sake wait until after the election! If it comes out now McCain would probably win. Greaaaat!:rolleyes:. If this comes out after the election that is exactly what we want. The new Obama administration emboiled in a huge legal battle plus caught in a huge lie right off the bat. GOOD BYE TO THE MANDATE AND PASSAGE OF ALL HIS SOCIALISM. DEADLOCKED GOVERNMENT FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS! YEAAAW. HOLDING PATTERN.

You may be right. Biden might well be tested by other powermongers from day one. Nothing promotes gridlock like giving those sharks in Congress a bit of the scent of blood.

Unfortunately, if we tease the minorities by electing one then disqualifying him, it could get ugly indeed...

HOLLYWOOD
10-28-2008, 09:43 AM
You may be right. Biden might well be tested by other powermongers from day one. Nothing promotes gridlock like giving those sharks in Congress a bit of the scent of blood.

Unfortunately, if we tease the minorities by electing one then disqualifying him, it could get ugly indeed...

When Obama is disqualified...LA Riots part Deux!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/07/15/riots.jpghttp://a.abcnews.com/images/US/apr_la_police_070429_mn.jpg
http://img.timeinc.net/time/2007/la_riots/king_rodney.jpg
http://www.fragmentsweb.org/photos/5-92F_15.jpeg

DAFTEK
10-28-2008, 09:54 AM
http://seekeronos.blogsome.com/images/ObamaDope.jpg

rancher89
10-28-2008, 10:04 AM
No, we don't want to wait until after the election. What if they, TPTB, decide that what we need to do to solve the issue is a constitutional convention, say to change the rule so that a naturalized citizen can serve as POTUS. (otherwise known as a "con-con" Look it up, it's been done, back in the late 1700's they actually had one to settle the Articles of the Confederation. They tried again with the Equal Rights Amendment, but it didn't happen. Last year or shortly before, there was a rumbling in the GOP about changning the Constitution so that a naturalized citizen could be POTUS, it died a lonely death. That was the GOP--all for it so AHnold could run for POTUS. Sorry I don't have the links, but the worst thing that could happen to us would be that they pulled a constitutional convention on us. They could literally rewrite the whole thing, make the Patriot Act a part of the CONSTITUTION.



That is what I fear will happen with this whole birth certificate mess. It's obvious that there is something to hide, the grandmother remembers him being born in Kenya............there is no emoticon for jumping up and down and pulling one's hair unfortunately.....http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc161/ngeekhiong4/DonaldDuck.jpg

RonPaulR3VOLUTION
10-28-2008, 10:07 AM
Thank you,


What the hell is wrong with the rest of you, its like saying the government can check your emails because you don't have anything to hide right? You guys will let other people have their liberties thrown in the toilette but not your own? Leave the man alone, and respect his privacy he already released a document of his birth certificate, and as MGreen pointed out Obama and the Governor are not friends, not even same party.

“Today, we mark an important milestone on the path to greater government transparency." --Obama

"respect his privacy"
Obama appears to have zero interest in protecting anyone's privacy but his own. Obama: fighting to retain his own privacy while at the same time fighting to destroy almost everyone else's.

'Joe the Plumber' is held to greater public scrutiny than Obama. Something is surely not right here.

I don't see how releasing simple documentation showing you meet the requirements for Presidency is a violation of privacy in the first place. Perhaps someone will be so kind as to explain how it is.

"The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and the privacy of all individuals, not the secrecy of government." --Ron Paul

Note: I have no stance on Obama's citizenship.

Andrew-Austin
10-28-2008, 10:10 AM
Can we get through one election without such huge scandals? :rolleyes:

Matt Collins
10-28-2008, 10:11 AM
No, we don't want to wait until after the election. What if they, TPTB, decide that what we need to do to solve the issue is a constitutional convention, say to change the rule so that a naturalized citizen can serve as POTUS. (otherwise known as a "con-con" Would never happen in at least the next few decades.

Matt Collins
10-28-2008, 10:13 AM
Serious question: What happens if Obama wins the election, and then this info is released, and it turns out that Obama is NOT a natural born citizen, and is therefore not eligible as POTUS?Pelosi would be the President :(

ItsTime
10-28-2008, 10:16 AM
Why, just because they are not releasing it? That doesn't mean they have something to hide.

Why don't you let the world see your hard drive? Why don't you let the cop search your car? After all, if you have nothing to hide, why worry?

I realize this is an entirely different situation (guy is running for President, his place of birth has come into question etc), however the same [dis]logic of "they won't show so they must have something to hide" is a complete farce.


Obama should release his birth certificate, if for no other reason than to shut everyone up about it. And by not releasing it it does indeed make him look more and more suspicious at least in the court of public opinion. But he is not guilty because he refuses to release it.


He is applying for a job. Part of the job REQUIREMENTS is that he is a natural born citizen. He is the one that needs to prove he meets those requirements. End of story.

acptulsa
10-28-2008, 10:25 AM
Pelosi would be the President :(

WTF? Because of Dubya's term limits? Why would they skip Cheney (not that he doesn't deserve it)? What part of the Twentieth Amendment do you not understand--or did you not read that much of this thread?

Dude--if you're going to answer a question without checking to see if someone already has, at least check your facts.

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 11:23 AM
http://seekeronos.blogsome.com/images/ObamaDope.jpg


Daftek... people like you make me want to puke.

And again, why is this in grassroots central?

Matt Collins
10-28-2008, 11:37 AM
WTF? Because of Dubya's term limits? Why would they skip Cheney (not that he doesn't deserve it)? What part of the Twentieth Amendment do you not understand--or did you not read that much of this thread?If that situation were to come up since Obama was ineligible to begin with, then that would nullify the election meaning that Biden didn't win either because Obama could never have legally run. That means Pelosi would be the President. Or at least that's one argument I have read about.

acptulsa
10-28-2008, 11:39 AM
If that situation were to come up since Obama was ineligible to begin with, then that would nullify the election meaning that Biden didn't win either because Obama could never have legally run. That means Pelosi would be the President. Or at least that's one argument I have read about.

And how do we get Cheney disqualified on the way to Pelosi? Not that it matters one bit. Read Amendment Twenty again.

Matt Collins
10-28-2008, 11:39 AM
He is applying for a job. Part of the job REQUIREMENTS is that he is a natural born citizen. He is the one that needs to prove he meets those requirements. End of story.I agree, however there is no legal mechanism for this. The federal government cannot require him to release his birth certificate to the public, unless of course Congress passes a law by that nature. Remember federalism? Well birth certificates are all state-level documents, not federal documents.

So what should happen?

ItsTime
10-28-2008, 11:41 AM
I agree, however there is no legal mechanism for this. The federal government cannot require him to release his birth certificate to the public, unless of course Congress passes a law by that nature. Remember federalism? Well birth certificates are all state-level documents, not federal documents.

So what should happen?

He should prove he is a natural born citizen by whatever means he needs to. Its not a state issue for you to volunteer the info. And since he chooses to run he should volunteer it.

acptulsa
10-28-2008, 11:41 AM
So what should happen?

The people, who really don't like these two jackasses, should refuse to vote for either one and find a candidate to get behind...

ItsTime
10-28-2008, 11:43 AM
The people, who really don't like these two jackasses, should refuse to vote for either one and find a candidate to get behind...

Sadly there are none running this year I can get behind. :mad:

CurtisLow
10-28-2008, 11:47 AM
Isn't this something to think about!
If Barack Obama would apply for a job with the FBI or with the Secret Service, he would be disqualified because of his past association with William Ayers, a known terrorist. For this same reason, he would be disqualified from joining the military.

If he is elected President he would not qualify to be his own body guard!

Truth Warrior
10-28-2008, 11:52 AM
That is why Berg file the suit.<IMHO> And, of course, the "system" SNAFUBARd it in it's usual "inept and incompetent" ( ring any 9/11 memory bells ) way. :p :rolleyes:

HOLLYWOOD
10-28-2008, 11:56 AM
No, we don't want to wait until after the election. What if they, TPTB, decide that what we need to do to solve the issue is a constitutional convention, say to change the rule so that a naturalized citizen can serve as POTUS. (otherwise known as a "con-con" Look it up, it's been done, back in the late 1700's they actually had one to settle the Articles of the Confederation. They tried again with the Equal Rights Amendment, but it didn't happen. Last year or shortly before, there was a rumbling in the GOP about changning the Constitution so that a naturalized citizen could be POTUS, it died a lonely death. That was the GOP--all for it so AHnold could run for POTUS.

That is what I fear will happen with this whole birth certificate mess. It's obvious that there is something to hide, the grandmother remembers him being born in Kenya............there is no emoticon for jumping up and down and pulling one's hair unfortunately...

With the Democrats GAINING Congressional seats... 3/5's in both houses can change ANY AMENDMENT to their FAVOR!

That's the problem with SOCIALISTS Completely controlling all parts of government of OUR country!

We've witnessed first hand, when the fascists/NEOCON REPUBLICANS had ruling powers and how destructive they were/are to the people and country.

Both the COKE & PEPSI parties, are for BIG GOVERNMENT, COMPLETE CONTROL, & Dictatorial Policies on Americans. They just STEAL from the American TAXPAYERS in different Ways... that's your difference in these 2 Corrupt, Colluding, Crooked government parties.

Federal Government: A FACADE, A Charade, A Scheme... for LEGALIZED FELONY THEFT for themselves and the Corporate Masters they ALL Serve!

DAFTEK
10-28-2008, 12:43 PM
Daftek... people like you make me want to puke.

And again, why is this in grassroots central?

Puke all you want now, later you wont have much to puke with an empty stomach... :rolleyes:

Lord Xar
10-28-2008, 01:11 PM
You realize Lingle's a Republican, right? And she's a pretty big supporter of McCain.

NWO types do not owe allegiance to anything other than the ultimate goal.

Matt Collins
10-28-2008, 02:26 PM
He should prove he is a natural born citizen by whatever means he needs to. Its not a state issue for you to volunteer the info. And since he chooses to run he should volunteer it.I agree completely.

MelissaCato
10-28-2008, 02:36 PM
I can't believe it's that big a deal to just show the papers to the attorney Berg.

Something is really fishy here. Regardless.

This countries Constitution is over, noone cares anymore. Bastards.

JoshLowry
10-28-2008, 02:48 PM
http://seekeronos.blogsome.com/images/ObamaDope.jpg

There is nothing wrong with people being Muslim.

cheapseats
10-28-2008, 03:01 PM
There is nothing wrong with people being Muslim.

Per se, that is correct.

There is something wrong with lying, however.

And there IS something wrong with the radical fundamentalist branch of Islam that ascribes to marching orders from God to destroy heathens like me.

fedup100
10-28-2008, 03:01 PM
They sealed it because the bastard does not have a legal birth certificate, the fix is in. If he had a real legal birth certificate, Oprah would be wearing it on her mighty communist chest.

We have no standing because there is a deep flaw in the constitution that would allow a foreign born, coke snorting, communist sleeper muslim to become President of the United states.

The flaw in the Constitution is there and it is real simple, the founding fathers could never have imagined the current crop of citizens would be totally devoid of bravery and common sense!

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 03:03 PM
This is defacto proof that he has a Hawai'an birth certificate !

This case is closed.

libertarian4321
10-28-2008, 03:04 PM
The Muslim question sends Obama Fans into conniption fits and settles all manner of insult upon the Doubter. Again, why is that?


Because its a stupid premise from the standpoint of basic logic. One can't disprove a negative.

I can throw any accusation I want at you and you can't "disprove it".

I can call YOU a Muslim, and you can't "disprove it". Go ahead and try to prove to me that you aren't a Muslim- you can't do it.

I can call YOU a child molester, and you can't "disprove it". Go ahead and try to prove to me that you aren't a child molester- you can't do it.

I can say that you like to put on women's clothing and prance around your house with a cucumber up your butt while masturbating and reciting Koranic verse- and you can't disprove it.

Get it?

I can throw any crap I want against the wall and you can't "disprove it"- the fact that you can't "disprove it" doesn't make it true...

fedup100
10-28-2008, 03:10 PM
This is defacto proof that he has a Hawai'an birth certificate !

This case is closed.

Your either part of the solution or your part of the problem. Guess which one you are Jaybird?

Case closed NOT!

The little communist believes he can steal the election, take office and this will go away and he will be safe to plunder what is left of the white women and white fortunes around him, like his illustrious father. Wait and see jaybird what happens under this scenario.

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 03:11 PM
Problem of what ?

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 03:15 PM
How does the Hawai'i governor close a Hawai'i birth certificate if there is not a Hawai'i birth certificate to close ?

Is logic a problem ?

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/panamajohn/McCain20Certificate20120-2019361-1.jpg

No doubt about Panama-born John McCain ineligible for President of these United States under US Constitution, Article II, 1. clause 5 though.

fedup100
10-28-2008, 03:18 PM
Because its a stupid premise from the standpoint of basic logic. One can't disprove a negative.

I can throw any accusation I want at you and you can't "disprove it".

I can call YOU a Muslim, and you can't "disprove it". Go ahead and try to prove to me that you aren't a Muslim- you can't do it.

I can call YOU a child molester, and you can't "disprove it". Go ahead and try to prove to me that you aren't a child molester- you can't do it.

I can say that you like to put on women's clothing and prance around your house with a cucumber up your butt while masturbating and reciting Koranic verse- and you can't disprove it.

Get it?

I can throw any crap I want against the wall and you can't "disprove it"- the fact that you can't "disprove it" doesn't make it true...

I can prove the bastard is a muslim very easily. he has never denounced his muslim religion. Do you know how I know that 1234, because the bastard is still alive. You do know the penalty for denouncing the muslim faith and embracing christianity don't you?

Go read it in the religion of "piece" documents. That's right, the religion of PIECE because you will be in pieces when they are finished with you.

Oh, I think it is just fine to be muslim over in muslim country. I do not want the fanatics and Jesus deniers in my country or neighborhood. There whole phony baloney made up pile of dog crap is a whole 900 years old. I just read where the muslim woman now must only show one eye. Those stupid pigs. I want to see the muslim males all in burkas from head to toe with a hole cut out around their asshole's. There, now they are showing just one brown eye.

Wake up people!

cheapseats
10-28-2008, 03:23 PM
Because its a stupid premise from the standpoint of basic logic. One can't disprove a negative.

I can throw any accusation I want at you and you can't "disprove it".

I can call YOU a Muslim, and you can't "disprove it". Go ahead and try to prove to me that you aren't a Muslim- you can't do it.

I can call YOU a child molester, and you can't "disprove it". Go ahead and try to prove to me that you aren't a child molester- you can't do it.

I can say that you like to put on women's clothing and prance around your house with a cucumber up your butt while masturbating and reciting Koranic verse- and you can't disprove it.

Get it?

I can throw any crap I want against the wall and you can't "disprove it"- the fact that you can't "disprove it" doesn't make it true...

The difference would be that you are pulling crap out of thin air, like a child.

I was born to a Catholic man. Baptized, then confirmed down the line. Records exist. I can produce them.

I do not deny that that was my upbringing. I reject it now, on expressed rationale, yet I am forthcoming about certain abiding influences of Catholicism.

Barack Obama was born to a Muslim man. Barack Obama became a Christian in his early 20's. There's a key piece of real estate in between.

Another key difference is that Barack Hussein Obama is jockeying to be president of the United States, and I am not.

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 03:23 PM
What's the problem ? Even if he was muslim or jewish, there is no religious test for the presidency according to the founders.

The defacto proof that there is a Hawai'i birth certificate could very well resolve Obama's questioned native-born status.
McCain is definitely Panama-born and can NOT take the Oath of Office.

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/panamajohn/20070709.gif

fedup100
10-28-2008, 03:24 PM
How does the Hawai'i governor close a Hawai'i birth certificate if there is not a Hawai'i birth certificate to close ?

Is logic a problem ?

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/panamajohn/McCain20Certificate20120-2019361-1.jpg

No doubt about Panama-born John McCain ineligible for President of these United States under US Constitution, Article II, 1. clause 5 though.

There are lawsuits in at least 10 states now and the little communist does not want the problem to go away, he likes the problem.

He went to Hiwaya just to say hello to poor old granny and while he was there, he promised that corrupt governor a nice position if she would play ball with the little communist.

In my opinion, McWar is not a citizen or eligble either, if he really was, the congress would not have stepped in to help the impersonator along.

I am now more than ever in my life totally dismayed at the ignorance of the average american. I like O's wife can now say for once in my life and for the first time, I will not only be ashamed of my country, but horrified for it the day the little communist is crowned.

ItsTime
10-28-2008, 03:24 PM
I can prove the bastard is a muslim very easily. he has never denounced his muslim religion. Do you know how I know that 1234, because the bastard is still alive. You do know the penalty for denouncing the muslim faith and embracing christianity don't you?

Go read it in the religion of "piece" documents. That's right, the religion of PIECE because you will be in pieces when they are finished with you.

Oh, I think it is just fine to be muslim over in muslim country. I do not want the fanatics and Jesus deniers in my country or neighborhood. There whole phony baloney made up pile of dog crap is a whole 900 years old. I just read where the muslim woman now must only show one eye. Those stupid pigs. I want to see the muslim males all in burkas from head to toe with a hole cut out around their asshole's. There, now they are showing just one brown eye.

Wake up people!

http://www.geocities.com/vibestothemax/chill_pill.jpg

fedup100
10-28-2008, 03:24 PM
What's the problem ? Even if he was muslim or jewish, there is no religious test for the presidency according to the founders.

The defacto proof that there is a Hawai'i birth certificate could very well resolve Obama's questioned native-born status.
McCain is definitely Panama-born and can NOT take the Oath of Office.

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/panamajohn/20070709.gif

Go back to your O forum, your not welcome here!

StudentForPaul08
10-28-2008, 03:25 PM
Per se, that is correct.

There is something wrong with lying, however.

And there IS something wrong with the radical fundamentalist branch of Islam that ascribes to marching orders from God to destroy heathens like me.

Yes and i am sure there are some crazy Christians who would love to see my heathen self wiped off of their perfect planet as well.

fedup100
10-28-2008, 03:28 PM
Chill?

Been way to much chillin, that is why we are witnessing the end of our country, our freedom, our treasure and most likely real soon, our lives.

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 03:30 PM
Your either part of the solution or your part of the problem. Guess which one you are Jaybird?


http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/panamajohn/paulownsmccain.gif

Just say No to the Neo-Cons.

Why, the solution, just like Ike and the founding fathers wanted . . .

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence,
whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex.
The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower

" If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
-- James Madison

cheapseats
10-28-2008, 03:30 PM
Yes and i am sure there are some crazy Christians who would love to see my heathen self wiped off of their perfect planet as well.

You bet, more Extremists.

Hence, the advisability of a separation of church and state.

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 03:31 PM
Go back to your O forum, your not welcome here!

Really, a Ron Paul state delegate like me ?

Why would you think I am an O forum member ?
By exposing the logic of Obama having a Hawai'i birth certificate ?

fedup100
10-28-2008, 03:33 PM
Really, a Ron Paul state delegate like me ?

Why would you think I am an O forum member ?
By exposing the logic of Obama having a Hawai'i birth certificate ?

No wonder he lost.

cheapseats
10-28-2008, 03:33 PM
He was born to a Muslim, who he only saw once or twice in his life.

Yes, but.

Was it not his radical mother's marriage to ANOTHER Muslim that resulted in Barack Obama's being spirited off to largely Muslim Jakarta, Indonesia?

And if his Muslim father was such a non-player in his life, why is it that his Muslim father and not his radical mother features in one of the titles of his two-part book deal?

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 03:34 PM
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/panamajohn/mccain_wow.jpg

What do you mean I can't be President ?

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 03:36 PM
No wonder he lost.

Only 51.4% of the precinct voted for me as a RP delegate. A bit more at county convention, though.

But why support a foreign-born statutory-only US citizen like McCain ?

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/panamajohn/indy_debategate_300x210.jpg

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 03:39 PM
Again,

This is defacto proof that Obama has a Hawai'ian birth certificate !

This case is closed.

Lord Xar
10-28-2008, 03:48 PM
So, in two years Obama hasn't produced a valid Birth Certifcate. Oh, he tried to give one to clowns at daily kos, but that was found to be a photoshopped version. That in an of itself, raises HUGE questions -- why supply a forged birth certificate when supply the real one would take less time and effort?

AND now.... we have his "ailing" grandmother IN Hawaii who he threw under the bus as a racist etc... and now he wants to "see and spend time with her.."

... and now a politician in Hawaii seals the information that everyone needs and wants?

Oh brother..... perhaps its just me. I am a paranoid sort. But it seems a payoff has been made with some promises to "bury" information.

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 03:56 PM
Well. if Obama IS foreign-born . . .
then Joe Biden will be sworn in as the 44th President.

But it just seems, that there definitely exists a Hawai'i birth certificate if the Republican Governor of Hawai'i is sealing the record - my only point really.

Truth Warrior
10-28-2008, 04:29 PM
Only 51.4% of the precinct voted for me as a RP delegate. A bit more at county convention, though.

But why support a foreign-born statutory-only US citizen like McCain ?

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/panamajohn/indy_debategate_300x210.jpg He was born in a US Naval base hospital to American citizen parents on US government assignment, unlike Obama. Get a grip and a clue.

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 04:33 PM
AND now.... we have his "ailing" grandmother IN Hawaii who he threw under the bus as a racist etc... and now he wants to "see and spend time with her.."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law




Through birth abroad to two United States citizens

See also: jus sanguinis

In most cases, one is a U.S. citizen if both of the following are true:

1. Both parents were U.S. citizens at the time of the child's birth
2. At least one parent lived in the United States prior to the child's birth.

INA 301(c) and INA 301(a)(3) state, "and one of whom has had a residence." The FAM (Foreign Affairs Manual) states "no amount of time specified."

A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of his or her citizenship. He or she may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have his or her citizenship recognized.

His mother lived in Kansas most her life!!! Case closed.

Furthermore, he did not throw his grandmother under a bus, he said he does not throw away close relationships based on people's views about race.

cheapseats
10-28-2008, 04:35 PM
Furthermore, he did not throw his grandmother under a bus, he said he does not throw away close relationships based on people's views about race.

What about the Reverend Jeremiah Wright?

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 04:37 PM
Puke all you want now, later you wont have much to puke with an empty stomach... :rolleyes:

People like you are the reason Powell endorsed Obama. Your bigotry is hurting your man.

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 04:43 PM
What about the Reverend Jeremiah Wright?

That was when he was defending his refusal to disavow Rev Wright.

Rev Wright then said that Obama didn't mean it, and that Obama believed what Wright was preaching, and that Obama was just being a politician. That is when Obama was personally insulted, and said he can no longer call Rev Wright a friend.

Of course you knew this already.

Matt Collins
10-28-2008, 04:49 PM
There is nothing wrong with people being Muslim.Many many people would disagree with that statement.

cheapseats
10-28-2008, 05:14 PM
That was when he was defending his refusal to disavow Rev Wright.

Rev Wright then said that Obama didn't mean it, and that Obama believed what Wright was preaching, and that Obama was just being a politician. That is when Obama was personally insulted, and said he can no longer call Rev Wright a friend.

Of course you knew this already.

Of course I know that's what he SAID...shortly after he said he could no more disown the Reverend than he could his own grandmother or, indeed, the black community.

Of course, he also said he would go with public campaign financing. The Red Cross had to borrow money to help flood victims in the Midwest, while Barack Obama conducts the costliest campaign in American history.

The very thing that I call into question is his honesty.

Obama was insulted by being held to act like a politician? Good one.

http://www.onebigdog.net/obamas-change-politics-as-usual/

DAFTEK
10-28-2008, 05:17 PM
There is nothing wrong with people being Muslim.

Absolutely not! that was not the intent of my posting.. :rolleyes:

dannno
10-28-2008, 05:19 PM
If Obama has a "Hawaiian birth certificate" to seal, he was born in Hawaii, not Kenya or Mars or whatever. He is therefore eligible to run for President. Duh?

Great, then you can explain what "documents" pertaining to Obama were sealed by Kenya's government.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174

"In Kenya, WND was told by government authorities that all documents concerning Obama were under seal until after the U.S. presidential election on November 4."


"In a startling development, Obama's Kenyan grandmother has reportedly alleged she witnessed Obama's birth at the Coast Provincial Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya."

DAFTEK
10-28-2008, 05:19 PM
People like you are the reason Powell endorsed Obama. Your bigotry is hurting your man.

And who gives a fuck about Powell? The guy endorsed Obama because he's black, what did you expect him to do? Endorse Insane McCain???? :rolleyes:

JoshLowry
10-28-2008, 05:24 PM
Oh, I think it is just fine to be muslim over in muslim country. I do not want the fanatics and Jesus deniers in my country or neighborhood. There whole phony baloney made up pile of dog crap is a whole 900 years old. I just read where the muslim woman now must only show one eye. Those stupid pigs.

Fucking garbage. Insult a good portion of this forum again and you get the ban hammer. :)

DAFTEK
10-28-2008, 05:28 PM
Per se, that is correct.

There is something wrong with lying, however.

And there IS something wrong with the radical fundamentalist branch of Islam that ascribes to marching orders from God to destroy heathens like me.

And lying that he is not Muslim.... My posting was not anti Muslim, it was anti lying Muslim with Socialistic ideas... :rolleyes:

Let me put it this way, My sister married a Muslim and converted to Muslim, her kids are all Muslim born in the US, yet she never denies she is Greek Orthodox by blood born in Europe and has never missed the Orthodox Easter with her family.... :p

nodope0695
10-28-2008, 05:34 PM
Fucking garbage. Insult a good portion of this forum again and you get the ban hammer. :)

I like how you said that with a :)!

nodope0695
10-28-2008, 05:38 PM
Why, just because they are not releasing it? That doesn't mean they have something to hide.

Why don't you let the world see your hard drive? Why don't you let the cop search your car? After all, if you have nothing to hide, why worry?

I realize this is an entirely different situation (guy is running for President, his place of birth has come into question etc), however the same [dis]logic of "they won't show so they must have something to hide" is a complete farce.


Obama should release his birth certificate, if for no other reason than to shut everyone up about it. And by not releasing it it does indeed make him look more and more suspicious at least in the court of public opinion. But he is not guilty because he refuses to release it.

Thats a rediculous argument. Just rediculous. They are asking to see what any of us must show to get a passport, register at school, join the military, get a driver's lisence, etc. Since when is such a document protected? All the man would have to do is produce and shut all of us up, alas he has not produced his vault birth certificate, and thus, I will not shut up about it.

HOLLYWOOD
10-28-2008, 05:41 PM
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Obama's birth certificate sealed by Hawaii governor
Says Democratic senator must make request to obtain original document

Posted: October 26, 2008
9:54 pm Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
WorldNetDaily


I want the Document Carbon 4 tested for dating purposes ASAP!

What next? Tthe Gelldimacks of SOUTHPARK eligible for the US presidency. If you truly wanted to put an end to all the histeria, probes, questioning... show and prove. SIMPLE.

Oh I forgot, Barack's a Lawyer... Columbia U Alum, I believe everything Obama says and question nothing, because he's a ROCKSTAR like me!

I think the DCCC and the Socialist in Hawaii, are squelching this, but something is going to disappear, be falsified, or Bribed into the appearance of truth.

It's the American Way... of GOVERNMENT!

phixion
10-28-2008, 05:45 PM
I wish someone could prove Obama met the governor on his recent 'trip' there to see his grandmother.

Sounds very fishy to me.

Pete

Matt Collins
10-28-2008, 05:51 PM
Thats a rediculous argument. Just rediculous.Ok - please post your birth certificate.


Since when is such a document protected? Depends on the laws of the individual state.



All the man would have to do is produce and shut all of us up, alas he has not produced his vault birth certificate, and thus, I will not shut up about it.I absolutely agree. And he should produce the certificate, if for no other reason than to quench the issue. However one can not infer that just because he doesn't show it means that he is not a citizen. Innocent until proven guilty?

Yes he should show it, but there is no mechanism to force him to show it, short of a lawsuit. Unfortunately that course of action has been blocked.

M House
10-28-2008, 06:11 PM
It's in the constitution, he needs to produce it period. Seriously how many times have you been asked to for yours, I know I have alot and I'm not a candidate for president. Anyway, he won't but yeah it's a requirement. As for muslim, I don't care who he prays to cuz the only thing he really prays to is lawyers and money.

Alawn
10-28-2008, 06:25 PM
His mother lived in Kansas most her life!!! Case closed.


Wrong. When only one parent is a US citizen (his father was not a US citizen) the parent has to be at least 19 because of the requirement that the parent resided in the US for 10 years with at least 5 of those years after the age of 14. His mother was only 18 when he was born so he cannot be a natural born citizen if born outside of the US.

Vet_from_cali
10-28-2008, 06:27 PM
dude, when is all this last minute conspiracy shi* gonna be coming from a credible news source? wtf, why do people keep posting this BS from unknown sites, or some retards blog page. if you going to post some info, please make sure it is credible and not some unknown source. smh....

cheapseats
10-28-2008, 06:45 PM
If you truly wanted to put an end to all the histeria, probes, questioning... show and prove. SIMPLE.


It would be so outrageous if he were faking citizenry that we must ABSOLUTELY have proof. It's part of the price of admission.

And as you point out, it would be so simple to lay the doubt to rest that one is left to wonder whether this little drama is allowed to percolate, like the titillating front page of a rag magazine, to divert attention from something rather more damaging.

Maybe the Muslim angle. Maybe something else. It is highly unusual...between his good looks, our prurient interests and our sleazy media...that we have heard about not a single intimate relationship prior to Militant Michelle.




Oh I forgot, Barack's a Lawyer... Columbia U Alum,

Columbia University undergraduate, Harvard University law.

I watched a bio on CNN, Suzanne Malveaux (sp) reporting. I kid you not when I say it begins, "To understand Barack Obama, you have to come here, Hawaii."

Is that why I can't get my mind around this stranger's popularity? I need to go to Hawaii? I couldn't agree more.

If memory serves, the phrase "less than stellar" was used with regard to his academics. Something about 'B' and 'seldom'...presumably that he seldom rose ABOVE a 'B' and not that he seldom rose TO a 'B.'

I will therefore venture to guess that his acceptance at top-notch Columbia University featured either Affirmative Action or Pulled Strings.

There is no denying that NONE of this would be playing out the way it is if Obama was jet-black and thick-lipped. I've got a little more than half a century in this country, and I have gotten around it a fair bit. I have a fairly assorted set of life experiences.

There is LESS racism, to be sure. Racism is on the decline. HOWEVER, comma, it remains more true to say that America is a Racist nation than it is to say that America is a Christian nation.

Back to the law angle, I have a BIG problem with that. Big Law features in damn near every one of our Rubick's cubes, and Big Law is all up in Obama's support network. I'm talking about up-and-comers from Big Law firms "donating" their hours to Obama's campaign...one in every precinct in America, I was told...while the firms continue to pay the attorneys. I would like to know whether Obama declare those values as part of his overall Haul.

All those entitlement programs? Who gets what, why did you deny this application, lawyers, lawyers, lawyers. I heard there are many more lawyers in Washington than government officials. Also many more lobbyists.

I think lobbying should be illegal. Joe Biden disagrees, that's for sure.




I believe everything Obama says and question nothing, because he's a ROCKSTAR like me!

Yep.

In addition to being a Nation of Racists, Addicts, Cowards, Pansies and Rubber Neckers, we are a Nation of Star Fuckers.

First and foremost, though, we are a Moneyian Nation. And when times are tougher than they've ever been for most people alive, people with deteriorating quality of life simply cannot throw enough money at this man. It defies logic. Defiance of logic is just a HUGE red flag.

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 06:59 PM
He was born in a US Naval base hospital to American citizen parents on US government assignment, unlike Obama. Get a grip and a clue.

For your reference read the law of the state department

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

Read Section 1116.1-4(c) Not Included In the Meaning of "In the United States"
military installations abroad

So, EVEN IF he was born in a Navy hospital on base, that STILL is NOT in the United States -
The Naval Hospital was not authorized - or built - until FIVE years after McCain's 1936 birth.

In actuality, he is presumed to be have been born at the local hospital in Colón Beach.

ALL are NOT in the United States.

cheapseats
10-28-2008, 07:03 PM
It would be hilarious if they were both disqualified a week before the election.

The ratings will go through the ROOF.

JohnJay
10-28-2008, 07:13 PM
For Obama, like I said - with the Republican Governor following the state code regarding Hawai'i birth certificates -
and the entry in the Honolulu Advertiser newspaper 9 days after Obama's birth in Honolulu -
these are all pretty much defacto evidence he has a birth certificate in Hawai'i.

If he is not a native born citizen, then Biden would take the Oath of Office -
but I honestly don't see that.

But McCain is toast on this issue definitely :
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

anaconda
10-28-2008, 07:26 PM
Oh, one more thing.

If Hawaii is able to "seal" Obama's Hawaiin birth certificate, it means Obama has a Hawaiian birth certificate.

I know some of you aren't very bright, so I'll lead you through this.



Just because the Governor says it's "sealed" means no more to me than the New Hampshire Secretary of State saying the rooms holding the January primary ballots were "secure." Furthermore, whatever is on record in Hawaii, if anything, has not been shown to be valid. Your assumption that the "document" is valid and that the chain of custody is secure seems really presumptuous.

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 07:58 PM
And who gives a fuck about Powell? The guy endorsed Obama because he's black, what did you expect him to do? Endorse Insane McCain???? :rolleyes:

No, he did it because he has suffered through bigotry on a personal level, and he knows bigotry, and pandering to bigotry when he sees it.

ChickenHawk
10-28-2008, 07:59 PM
No, he did it because he has suffered through bigotry on a personal level, and he knows bigotry, and pandering to bigotry when he sees it.

And he liked it so much he decided to endorse Obama?

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 08:01 PM
And he liked it so much he decided to endorse Obama?

:rolleyes:

What group is the Obama campaign encouraging bigotry against?

hotbrownsauce
10-28-2008, 08:03 PM
The Original post is wrong. Even if Obama was born in Kenya he can still run for president and become president. Please google "Natural Born Citizen". Also, I know this because I've taken constitution classes.

The question how I read is

According to Berg, even if Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii, his stepfather later changed his citizenship to Indonesian. Berg bases this on the years the senator was enrolled in the Indonesian public school system as Barry Soetoro (his stepfather's surname).

In those days Indonesia was at war and only Indonesian citizens were allowed to enroll in public school. If the senator's citizenship was switched to Indonesian, and later switched back, he would then be referenced as a naturalized citizen. In that case, he would not be eligible to be president.
Source : http://suburbanjournals.stltoday.com/articles/2008/10/28/monroe/opinion/1029cla-garcia0.txt

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 08:07 PM
Wrong. When only one parent is a US citizen (his father was not a US citizen) the parent has to be at least 19 because of the requirement that the parent resided in the US for 10 years with at least 5 of those years after the age of 14. His mother was only 18 when he was born so he cannot be a natural born citizen if born outside of the US.


where are you getting this from? Are trying to tell me if an 18 yo American has a baby in Canada, with a Canadian parent, that the baby is not American?

Whatever.

Lord Xar
10-28-2008, 08:13 PM
Perhaps the hiding of his birth certificate has nothing to do with citizenship, but something else entirely.

I also find it hugely comical that some here have no issue with Obama NOT supplying his birth certificate. I mean, it IS a requirement to be president, yet how is one suppose to prove it when all obstacles are in the way? Its extremely odd that many of us question authority, question the media yet we look to the very source of corruption to validate this "birth certificate" and then say "what credible source has shown he is born in another country.." You can't prove it because the data that is needed is BEING DENIED! Phuk.

I mean, why was a 'fake copy' given to KOS by the Obama campaign?
WHY was his birth certificate sealed? Why? Think on that? Instead of debating the issue of what is real or not, just ask yourself "Why did they seal his birth certificate?" THAT IS FUCKING ODD???

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 08:25 PM
maybe the father is listed as unknown. That copy wasn't fake, it was just an electronic document...

..or maybe, they know this just makes Obama's enemies look like bigoted jackasses.

His birth was in the Hawaii paper.. its not like it would be hard to get him citizenship, since his mother was clearly an American, and certainly his parents were not like, "OMG, Obama might be president one day, lets make sure he is a nationalized, not naturalized citizen."

HOLLYWOOD
10-28-2008, 08:33 PM
Perhaps the hiding of his birth certificate has nothing to do with citizenship, but something else entirely.

I mean, why was a 'fake copy' given to KOS by the Obama campaign?
WHY was his birth certificate sealed? Why? Think on that? Instead of debating the issue of what is real or not, just ask yourself "Why did they seal his birth certificate?" THAT IS FUCKING ODD???

Well, as we all know... it's all the same EVIL government and the $850 BAILOUT BILL with $100's of other BILLIONS going to their LOVED ONES blatantly obvious that government doesn't represent the people. Sooooooooooooooooooooo...

There can be multiple reasons for the Birth reocrds being sealed... for protection from theft, modification, destruction, inspection, or for a FUTURE deal between the governor of Hawaii and president elect. That piece of paper, whether it be authentic or falsified is worth an incredible amount of Wealth/Power.

Maybe Penny Pritzer offered the governor of HI, emmense wealth for her in the future.

Personally, there has to be some Witnesses from 45+ years ago... hospital, neighbors, relatives, government. Where are the eye witnesses and besides the Birth certificate, where's the hospital records, etc?

Then, what's going on in Kenya? If all this turns out to be true and Obama is disqualified, there will be a Supreme Court ruling... but as usually, the Idiots on the highest courts will rule to the wealth and best deal. Sorta like Scalia ruling on GITMO prisons, that not giving legal rights, will cause more American Deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, instead of the KNUCKLEHEAD ruling by the U.S. Constitution. Of Course which they swears to uphold and enforce. (yeah right) They are the Supreme Exhaultered Court will rule... IN FAVOR OF OBAMA being president, BECAUSE there will be massive RIOTS and DEATHS across American and Martial Law, yotta yotta if we don't rule this particular way.

I can see it all now! :rolleyes:

Penners
10-28-2008, 08:36 PM
So, in two years Obama hasn't produced a valid Birth Certifcate. Oh, he tried to give one to clowns at daily kos, but that was found to be a photoshopped version. That in an of itself, raises HUGE questions -- why supply a forged birth certificate when supply the real one would take less time and effort?

AND now.... we have his "ailing" grandmother IN Hawaii who he threw under the bus as a racist etc... and now he wants to "see and spend time with her.."

... and now a politician in Hawaii seals the information that everyone needs and wants?

Oh brother..... perhaps its just me. I am a paranoid sort. But it seems a payoff has been made with some promises to "bury" information.

bump

Ninja Homer
10-28-2008, 08:42 PM
maybe the father is listed as unknown. That copy wasn't fake, it was just an electronic document...

..or maybe, they know this just makes Obama's enemies look like bigoted jackasses.

His birth was in the Hawaii paper.. its not like it would be hard to get him citizenship, since his mother was clearly an American, and certainly his parents were not like, "OMG, Obama might be president one day, lets make sure he is a nationalized, not naturalized citizen."

Read this and tell me the birth certificate that the Obama campaign posted wasn't fake: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

Maybe he was born in Hawaii, but then why the hell won't he release the proof? It's not like it's a hard thing to do. In fact, it would be easier than manufacturing the fake birth certificate that they posted at http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

They are hiding something.

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 09:10 PM
Read this and tell me the birth certificate that the Obama campaign posted wasn't fake: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

Maybe he was born in Hawaii, but then why the hell won't he release the proof? It's not like it's a hard thing to do. In fact, it would be easier than manufacturing the fake birth certificate that they posted at http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

They are hiding something.

It not fake... it was never claimed to be the official document, it was presented as an "electronic copy". You guys are like people pointing to carbon copies of a check, and saying, "The check was never written, it was never written, this clearly is not the check!!! Why would somebody present this as evidence that the check was written? Its kind of blue, and splotchy, and doesn't even look like a check!!"

Why not release the proof? Remember the National Gaurd controversy. Why release it, when you can wait for McCain or Palin to get desperate, claim he isn't a citizen, and then produce the real thing, upping the landslide, and perhaps getting even longer coat tails.

Forging old documents, especially common ones like birth certificates, is easy. Its a $200 job for a guy named Mack in Tacna, Arizona. Everybody's internet sluething is not going to crack this case, and if Obama wanted, he could have a false document made, no problem, and nobody would know the difference.

As for the first link.. the guy is doing detailed analysis on a .jpg :rolleyes: Stupid.

RockEnds
10-28-2008, 09:26 PM
maybe the father is listed as unknown. That copy wasn't fake, it was just an electronic document...

..or maybe, they know this just makes Obama's enemies look like bigoted jackasses.

His birth was in the Hawaii paper.. its not like it would be hard to get him citizenship, since his mother was clearly an American, and certainly his parents were not like, "OMG, Obama might be president one day, lets make sure he is a nationalized, not naturalized citizen."

The birth announcement in the paper would be convincing--if it listed a hospital. From what I've heard, it does not. While a woman is in the hospital after the birth of a child, the hospital usually asks the mother if she would like the birth announced. If so, they ask her to specify newspaper(s). (They don't have to be in the area.) Then, the hospital sends the information to the newspaper(s).

Based on reports of the newspaper announcement, it sounds as if the family, and not the hospital, notified the newspaper. Maybe the hospital didn't offer to make the announcement, or maybe there was something else happening.

In any case, the announcement only states that his mother resided in Hawaii, and he was born. It doesn't say where. It proves nothing.

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 09:27 PM
In any case, the announcement only states that his mother resided in Hawaii, and he was born. It doesn't say where. It proves nothing.

And they would care... why? Because they knew their son would run for president?

RockEnds
10-28-2008, 09:34 PM
And they would care... why? Because they knew their son would run for president?

They would care because they had a baby that's little and cute. That's why people announce births.

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 09:39 PM
They would care because they had a baby that's little and cute. That's why people announce births.

but why go through all the trouble of trying to portray him as born in Hawaii? His mother was, as Michelle O put it "very single" when she had him, even though the paper says Mr. and Mrs.... And all births do not happen in hospitals.

And I have still not got a good explanation or link to the so called law that requires a nationalized, American woman to be 19, before her baby can be considered American, regardless of place of birth. I find this a tad ridiculous and frankly, unbelievable.

Ninja Homer
10-28-2008, 09:46 PM
It not fake... it was never claimed to be the official document, it was presented as an "electronic copy". You guys are like people pointing to carbon copies of a check, and saying, "The check was never written, it was never written, this clearly is not the check!!! Why would somebody present this as evidence that the check was written? Its kind of blue, and splotchy, and doesn't even look like a check!!"

Why not release the proof? Remember the National Gaurd controversy. Why release it, when you can wait for McCain or Palin to get desperate, claim he isn't a citizen, and then produce the real thing, upping the landslide, and perhaps getting even longer coat tails.

Forging old documents, especially common ones like birth certificates, is easy. Its a $200 job for a guy named Mack in Tacna, Arizona. Everybody's internet sluething is not going to crack this case, and if Obama wanted, he could have a false document made, no problem, and nobody would know the difference.

As for the first link.. the guy is doing detailed analysis on a .jpg :rolleyes: Stupid.

Wrong. It is claimed by the Obama campaign to be "Barack Obama’s Official Birth Certificate" at http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate Get that? This is an official Obama campaign site. It's not presented as an "electronic copy".

Evidently, they got somebody to do a $200 forge job for Obama. The problem is, a computer forensics expert busted them on it. Of course you can do forensics on a jpg. :confused:

Since this forgery was busted, they can't try for a better one, and now they need to release the real thing. It's illegal to forge a birth certificate. Maybe that's why they won't release the real one? Because it would prove that the first one they released was a forgery?

RockEnds
10-28-2008, 09:49 PM
but why go through all the trouble of trying to portray him as born in Hawaii? His mother was, as Michelle O put it "very single" when she had him, even though the paper says Mr. and Mrs.... And all births do not happen in hospitals.

Does the announcement try to portray him as born in Hawaii? I read birth announcements from all over the world in my local paper. The babies' parents have ties to this community, so they announce it here. Who knows why the announcement doesn't say where he was born? I don't. But it doesn't say, so it really isn't proof of anything other than the birth.

nodope0695
10-28-2008, 09:51 PM
Ok - please post your birth certificate.

Depends on the laws of the individual state.


I absolutely agree. And he should produce the certificate, if for no other reason than to quench the issue. However one can not infer that just because he doesn't show it means that he is not a citizen. Innocent until proven guilty?

Yes he should show it, but there is no mechanism to force him to show it, short of a lawsuit. Unfortunately that course of action has been blocked.

If I had a scanner, I would produce my birth certificate...alas, I don't have a scanner. But, in my hand right now, I have a notarized, certified copy of the ORIGONAL certificate, not some computer generated certification of live bith. I have THE certificate. I payed $10 for it at my county clerk's office. It states my place of birth, my parent's full names, occupations, signatures, and legal residence. It states the date/time of my birth, contains the doctor's name and signature and the signature of the person who filed the certificate. It is a faxcimile of the origonal, hand written certificate from 1971. It is printed on official State of California, County of San Luis Obispo paper with boarders printed just as money is printed, it has a raised seal and date of reproduction and notary.

Obama's supposed "Certificate of Live Birth" is NOT a true copy of a birth certificate because if contains only basic info, and no doctor's signature, no signature of the parent(s), no legal residence address.

My point? This is NOT private information. It is of public record. Its not like its a ssn, or credit card number. I had to show this document to join the military, get my passport, recieve a new SSN card, etc. Obama wants to be PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES!!! He NEEDS to produce this document in order to be properly vetted by his party, and the American voters.

The reason why the document has been sealed by Hawaii's govornor has to be because there is something to hide. Perhaps he was registered under one of his many aliases. Perhaps it indeed shows his place of birth as Kenya. Who know. But be assured, if it did show his birth to have taken place in Hawaii, at Kapiolani Hospital (or Queen's Hospital), then surely it would be released because it would close the case. However the document hasn't been released, so the question remains: What is Obama hiding?

No mechanism to force him to produce his Bith Certificate??? My friend, that mechanism is the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES! If we don't enforce that, what can we enforce? If we ignore this element of the constitution, why not ignore the entire thing? Oh, wait, I almost forgot. Obama has alread stated he wants to rewrite the constitution because it "reflects a blindspot of the founding fathers." The Warren Court failed to address the redistribution of weath in their rulings.

If you support Obama, then you are complisate in the fall of the Untited States as we know it. Enjoy your final free vote.

amy31416
10-28-2008, 09:53 PM
Honestly, does this shit really matter to anyone aside from desperate McCain fans?

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 09:57 PM
And I have still not got a good explanation or link to the so called law that requires a nationalized, American woman to be 19, before her baby can be considered American, regardless of place of birth. I find this a tad ridiculous and frankly, unbelievable.

Until I hear somebody explain this nonsense, you are all SoL, and making moot points about the proof he was born in Hawaii.


P.S. anybody born of an American citizen has until age nineteen to decide their American citizenship. There is no test required or anything like that. You just go get your voter registration card.

nodope0695
10-28-2008, 09:58 PM
Evidently, they got somebody to do a $200 forge job for Obama. The problem is, a computer forensics expert busted them on it. Of course you can do forensics on a jpg.

$200??? Shit, I could make one of those for a six pack and a bag of chips. :D

nodope0695
10-28-2008, 10:01 PM
Honestly, does this shit really matter to anyone aside from desperate McCain fans?

I'm not a desparate McCain fan....not by a longshot. But, this is no small questsion. Forget his ties to terrorists, forget his slimey activities...the most basic question is, DOES HE MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION???

Anyone who discounts this issue is discounting the constitution, plain and simple. And, if people are going to discount the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, then they might as well pull the lever for Obama on November 4. Enjoy your slavery assholes.:mad:

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 10:06 PM
I'm not a desparate McCain fan....not by a longshot. But, this is no small questsion. Forget his ties to terrorists, forget his slimey activities...the most basic question is, DOES HE MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION???

Anyone who discounts this issue is discounting the constitution, plain and simple. And, if people are going to discount the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, then they might as well pull the lever for Obama on November 4. Enjoy your slavery assholes.:mad:


I am only discounting the issue, because it is not an issue. Obama was born of a naturalized, American citizen, and had until age 19 to declare himself American. He has always, in his adult life, and young adult life, considered himself an American, therefore, he is American, by birthright. You can drop it now.

This is about the 4th constitutional challenge to an American president or VP's eligibility or citizenship, and all have failed. Others were Herbert Hoover, John McCain, Dick Cheney, and Barry Goldwater.

M House
10-28-2008, 10:18 PM
Kinda ironic that both of our f@cking PRESIDENTIAL candidates probably don't even meet the minimum requirements in the constitution. Natural Born US Citizen doesn't seem like it should be very complicated to figure the definition of. Seriously only a lawyer could make that complicated. Citizen born in a US State not territory, base, or foreign country.

Ninja Homer
10-28-2008, 10:20 PM
Honestly, does this shit really matter to anyone aside from desperate McCain fans?

In the grand scheme of things, not really. They both suck and are corrupt as hell, and neither one of them deserves to be president. However, if the US had a Kenya citizen as president, it would be an obamanation. :p

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 10:23 PM
Kinda ironic that both of our f@cking PRESIDENTIAL candidates probably don't even meet the minimum requirements in the constitution. Natural Born US Citizen doesn't seem like it should be very complicated to figure the definition of. Seriously only a lawyer could make that complicated. Citizen born in a US State not territory, base, or foreign country.

or born of a US citizen.

nodope0695
10-28-2008, 10:23 PM
in the grand scheme of things, not really. They both suck and are corrupt as hell, and neither one of them deserves to be president. However, if the us had a kenya citizen as president, it would be an obamanation. :p


+1000

lmao.

nodope0695
10-28-2008, 10:27 PM
I am only discounting the issue, because it is not an issue. Obama was born of a naturalized, American citizen, and had until age 19 to declare himself American. He has always, in his adult life, and young adult life, considered himself an American, therefore, he is American, by birthright. You can drop it now.

This is about the 4th constitutional challenge to an American president or VP's eligibility or citizenship, and all have failed. Others were Herbert Hoover, John McCain, Dick Cheney, and Barry Goldwater.


The statutory laws on the books at the time Obama was born stated that for a child to assume U.S. citizenship from a parent, the U.S. Citizen parent must have lived for 10 simultainious years in the USA, and that five of those years must have been past their 14th birthday. Stanly Obama was 18 when Obama was born, IN KENYA, and thus did not meet the statutory law at the time. Therefore, Obama was never granted U.S. citizenship, nor did he EVER claim it when he turned 18.

I remind you also that Obama traveled abroad in the early 1980s on an Indonesian passport, to countries where U.S. Citizens were restricted from traveling. What does he have to say to that?

M House
10-28-2008, 10:30 PM
Just a couple of simple words NATURAL BORN US CITIZEN, not naturalized, not of US citizen, etc.

nodope0695
10-28-2008, 10:42 PM
Just a couple of simple words NATURAL BORN US CITIZEN, not naturalized, not of US citizen, etc.

Exactly. Natural Born, NOT naturalized.

You ask then, what of McCain? Wasn't he born in Panama? Well, far be it of me to defend that moron, but a military base is U.S. soil.

Coast Hospital in Kenya, is NOT EVEN CLOSE TO U.S. SOIL.

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 10:45 PM
The statutory laws on the books at the time Obama was born stated that for a child to assume U.S. citizenship from a parent, the U.S. Citizen parent must have lived for 10 simultainious years in the USA, and that five of those years must have been past their 14th birthday. Stanly Obama was 18 when Obama was born, IN KENYA, and thus did not meet the statutory law at the time. Therefore, Obama was never granted U.S. citizenship, nor did he EVER claim it when he turned 18.

Which law is this, and how sure are you that you are not just using Berg twisted definiton? (which, BTW, our courts tossed out=, how unconstitutional of them.... :rolleyes: )

What law.... you all bring in talking points from a right wing chain mail, and speak with such authority, what law makes you so sure? It is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous that age of the mother would matter.

You do not have to claim your citizenship, you have to reject it.


I remind you also that Obama traveled abroad in the early 1980s on an Indonesian passport, to countries where U.S. Citizens were restricted from traveling. What does he have to say to that?

is this the same issue? What countries? what proof?

M House
10-28-2008, 10:45 PM
I seriously doubt he was born on a US base in Panama unless it conveniently had decent medical facilities at the time.

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 10:46 PM
Exactly. Natural Born, NOT naturalized.

You ask then, what of McCain? Wasn't he born in Panama? Well, far be it of me to defend that moron, but a military base is U.S. soil.

Coast Hospital in Kenya, is NOT EVEN CLOSE TO U.S. SOIL.

It doesn't matter, both McCain's parents were US citizens. Case closed. This lawyerly nitpicking is not what the constitution intended, and would never even make it to the supreme court.

M House
10-28-2008, 10:47 PM
I think people have problems with reading comprehension not with understanding what their lawyer tells them.

NewEnd
10-28-2008, 10:53 PM
Here's the deal. I started ot get really paranoid that there was some giant conspiracy to take the Obama presidency away, or keep it, even if he was proven not to be a US citizen. In the first instance, the war would start in reaction to the riots. In the second, it would simply start form the right.

I took the word of the people on here, and their piss poor excuses and definitions of natural-born citizen. As I looked deeper, I found what I was looking for, and am no longer worried.

Keep it up guys, you are helping McCain and his Neocon GOP get one of the most historical ass whippings in American history.

I for one will rest good enough, with the worry of immediate race war put to rest for now.

M House
10-28-2008, 10:59 PM
Hey I don't think McCain fits the definition one bit, seriously didn't congress decide his eligibility for him?

Carole
10-28-2008, 11:01 PM
Ya know it could be that they believe that citizens(in general, not necessarily Obama) have a right to PRIVACY, kinda like specified in the bill of rights.(I don't believe privacy stems from Roe vs. Wade)
I have always thought birth records were considered public records. I had to go to the court house to get a copy of my own birth certificate. No special requirements were made of me that I can recall.

The court house here has huge books containing these records. Anyone can look them up.

How did these become private suddenly after Obama's quick trip to Hawaii. Whom did he visit there besides his "not so sick after all" grandmother?

Has anyone checked the records in Kenya?

M House
10-28-2008, 11:04 PM
O well nothing like knowing we are deciding between a natural born Kenyan and natural born Panamanian or whatever it's called there.

BeFranklin
10-29-2008, 12:14 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law





His mother lived in Kansas most her life!!! Case closed.

Furthermore, he did not throw his grandmother under a bus, he said he does not throw away close relationships based on people's views about race.

And Kansas she said was the name of her star..

Woohoo. I was just thinking the other day if the "strawman" and "tinman - taxpayer identification number" political interpretations of the Wizard of Oz are used (from various posters on here), than Dorthy should represent natural sovereign citizenship trying to find its way home.

Under the original idea of citizenship, pre-14th Amendment, you are a citizen in one of these united States because your parents are, which is how the constitution also starts out, that it is intended for we the people, to us and our posterity. The 14th intended to free the slaves, who were born here and subject to the laws of the land (indians were not), but whose parents were not citizens because they were slaves. Natural born citizens isn't where you are born, but to whom. Nothing is more unnatural then claiming because an illegal immigrate snuck across the border to drop, their baby is a US citizen. That is not a natural citizen but extreemly artificial.

Obama's mother is a citizen of Kansas. She can look at the flag at any time and say and Kansas is the :D

anaconda
10-29-2008, 12:23 AM
Even if Obama was born in Kenya he can still run for president and become president. Please google "Natural Born Citizen". Also, I know this because I've taken constitution classes.


I think Obama's situation concerning "natural born" is complicated by the fact that one of his parents was not a U.S. citizen. There are additional encumbrances that accrue in this situation, apparently. Also, if I understand correctly, one can be born as a citizen and not be a "natural born citizen." I don't think Obama's birth in Kenya would have been a problem if his father was a U.S. citizen like his mother. Since he was not, it's a whole different can of worms.

BeFranklin
10-29-2008, 12:25 AM
Wrong. When only one parent is a US citizen (his father was not a US citizen) the parent has to be at least 19 because of the requirement that the parent resided in the US for 10 years with at least 5 of those years after the age of 14. His mother was only 18 when he was born so he cannot be a natural born citizen if born outside of the US.

Where is this in the Contitution? Regulations trump it by re-defination?

There is no such thing as a naturally born "US" citizen in the constitution. The Constitution is a federation of free countries, and its members or "citizens" are States not people.

A natural citizen of the united States (note caps to emphasize the point), is a natural citizen of one of the States that are part of the US. Under the original constitution, it would be impossible to be a citizen of the federal government.

What is a natural citizen? According to common law and general usage, one that is born of citizens of that state and subject to their laws. Or as the constitution starts out:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Note the underline. Obama's mother is a citizen so he is. The argument that he is not a citizen of the "United States" because of where he is born is 14th amendment type thinking, not what the constitution originally meant. Citizenship is not a matter of just where you are born, and it is not national in character.

At least one good thing could come of this - people can see there is a difference in citizenship, and federal versus national governments.

M House
10-29-2008, 12:47 AM
So they both are like Federal citizens but not US citizens would that like make them more suitable or less suitable in most people opinions.

Matt Collins
10-29-2008, 11:09 AM
pre-14th Amendment, Of course you do realize the 14th Amendment was never ratified, right?

Matt Collins
10-29-2008, 11:18 AM
How did these become private It's done on a state by state basis.


Has anyone checked the records in Kenya?Yes, Jerome Corsi:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1847965,00.html

HOLLYWOOD
10-29-2008, 11:25 AM
Of course you do realize the 14th Amendment was never ratified, right?

The Congress proposed the Fourteenth Amendment on June 13, 1866.[20] There being thirty-seven states in the Union at that time, twenty-eight ratifications were necessary for the Amendment's adoption. By July 9, 1868, twenty-eight states had ratified the Amendment:
Connecticut (June 25, 1866)
New Hampshire (July 6, 1866)
Tennessee (July 19, 1866)
New Jersey (September 11, 1866)
Oregon (September 19, 1866)
Vermont (October 30, 1866)
Ohio (January 4, 1867)*
New York (January 10, 1867)
Kansas (January 11, 1867)
Illinois (January 15, 1867)
West Virginia (January 16, 1867)
Michigan (January 16, 1867)
Minnesota (January 16, 1867)
Maine (January 19, 1867)
Nevada (January 22, 1867)
Indiana (January 23, 1867)
Missouri (January 25, 1867)
Rhode Island (February 7, 1867)
Wisconsin (February 7, 1867)
Pennsylvania (February 12, 1867)
Massachusetts (March 20, 1867)
Nebraska (June 15, 1867)
Iowa (March 16, 1868)
Arkansas (April 6, 1868)
Florida (June 9, 1868)
North Carolina (July 4, 1868, after having rejected it on December 14, 1866)
Louisiana (July 9, 1868, after having rejected it on February 6, 1867)
South Carolina (July 9, 1868, after having rejected it on December 20, 1866)

*Ohio passed a resolution that purported to withdraw its ratification on January 15, 1868. The New Jersey legislature also tried to rescind its ratification on February 20, 1868. The New Jersey governor had vetoed his state's withdrawal on March 5, and the legislature overrode the veto on March 24. Accordingly, on July 20, 1868, Secretary of State William H. Seward certified that the amendment had become part of the Constitution if the rescissions were ineffective. The Congress responded on the following day, declaring that the amendment was part of the Constitution and ordering Seward to promulgate the amendment.

Meanwhile, two additional states had ratified the amendment:
Alabama (July 13, 1868, the date the ratification was "approved" by the governor)
Georgia (July 21, 1868, after having rejected it on November 9, 1866)

Thus, on July 28, Seward was able to certify unconditionally that the Amendment was part of the Constitution without having to endorse the Congress's assertion that the withdrawals were ineffective.

There were additional ratifications and rescissions; by 2003, the Amendment had been ratified by every state in the Union as of 1868:[21]
Oregon (withdrew October 15, 1868)
Virginia (October 8, 1869, after having rejected it on January 9, 1867)
Mississippi (January 17, 1870)
Texas (February 18, 1870, after having rejected it on October 27, 1866)
Delaware (February 12, 1901, after having rejected it on February 7, 1867)
Maryland (1959)
California (1959)
Oregon (1973)
Kentucky (1976, after having rejected it on January 8, 1867)
New Jersey (2003, after having rescinded on February 20, 1868)
Ohio (2003, after having rescinded on January 15, 1868)

Controversy over ratification

In 1968, the Utah Supreme Court diverged from the habeas corpus issue in a case to express its resentment against recent decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court under the Fourteenth Amendment, and to attack the Amendment itself:

In order to have 27 states ratify the Fourteenth Amendment, it was necessary to count those states which had first rejected and then under the duress of military occupation had ratified, and then also to count those states which initially ratified but subsequently rejected the proposal.

To leave such dishonest counting to a fractional part of Congress is dangerous in the extreme. What is to prevent any political party having control of both houses of the Congress from refusing to seat the opposition and then without more passing a joint resolution to the effect that the Constitution is amended and that it is the duty of the Administrator of the General Services Administration to proclaim the adoption? Would the Supreme Court of the United States still say the problem was political and refuse to determine whether constitutional standards had been met?

How can it be conceived in the minds of anyone that a combination of powerful states can by force of arms deny another state a right to have representation in the Congress until it has ratified an amendment which its people oppose? The Fourteenth Amendment was adopted by means almost as bad as that suggested above.

A lot of "POLITICS and THREATS" in this 14th amendment

dannno
10-29-2008, 11:26 AM
Honestly, does this shit really matter to anyone aside from desperate McCain fans?

It should matter to everyone.

Did you know that the birth certificate that was on his website was different from the one factcheck provided? Did you know factcheck donated millions of dollars to Obama's campaign?

I'm not saying Obama was born in Kenya for sure, but this is something that should be looked into.. and I would prefer McCain loses, to be honest. I think no matter what happens with this lawsuit, Americans will vote in Obama on Nov. 4. What will happen then? Who knows.

Matt Collins
10-29-2008, 12:46 PM
A lot of "POLITICS and THREATS" in this 14th amendmentAlso when it was proposed in Congress it wouldn't have passed except they illegally threw a member out of the chamber when it came time to vote on the amendment. The person they ejected was against the amendment.

Also Nevada and West Virginia were not (and still to this day are not) legal States as set forth by the US Constitution. Therefore their votes should not be counted but they were.

Scary to think that much of our idea about "due process" is from an unratified or illegally ratified amendment. :eek:

DAFTEK
10-29-2008, 12:52 PM
So is this why Obama just had to go to Hawaii in the last minute and leave his wife to campaign for him?

Why didn't she go with him then if his grandma was about to crap out? :rolleyes:

If it smells like cow shit and it takes like cow shit it probably is a bunch of cow shit don't you think?.. :)

Lord Xar
10-29-2008, 02:01 PM
Honestly, does this shit really matter to anyone aside from desperate McCain fans?

Following the rule of law, following the constitution, having integrity and honesty is NOT a partisan issue. ALL AMERICANS should be given the answers they deserve and need from the highest office in the land.

dsentell
10-29-2008, 02:15 PM
This is important because it is the law. Makes me shudder that the Constitution will be ignored another time.

Privacy issue? I think not. When you willfully place yourself in the public light, you must expect to give up certain privacies -- such as making your income tax returns public.

To require a candidate to prove that he legally qualifies for the position that he seeks is not asking too much -- it should be the norm . . .

PatriotLegion
10-29-2008, 02:26 PM
This is important because it is the law. Makes me shudder that the Constitution will be ignored another time.

Privacy issue? I think not. When you willfully place yourself in the public light, you must expect to give up certain privacies -- such as making your income tax returns public.

To require a candidate to prove that he legally qualifies for the position that he seeks is not asking too much -- it should be the norm . . .

I agree, and if he says he's a "US born citizen" then shut everyone up, ending the lawsuits and the conspiracy theories by releasing his birth records.

daviddee
10-29-2008, 04:16 PM
Ya know it could be that they believe that citizens(in general, not necessarily Obama) have a right to PRIVACY, kinda like specified in the bill of rights.(I don't believe privacy stems from Roe vs. Wade)

Record of birth is a PUBLIC RECORD.

There are documents in a civil society that need to be public records... Birth, Death, Marriage, etc.

BeFranklin
10-29-2008, 04:31 PM
Of course you do realize the 14th Amendment was never ratified, right?

Yes, but it doesn't change my argument. It doesn't effect presidential requirements regardless of whether it was passed or not, but the arguments being used to claim Obama is not a citizen are 14th Amendment type arguments - which many of us wouldn't agree with but the population as a whole doesn't understand.

This is an excellent chance to educate people on the differences in citizenship, but to do so will require ignoring much of the republican party pushing the other interpretation, which is ok because they are neocons anyway :rolleyes:

BeFranklin
10-29-2008, 04:41 PM
The Congress proposed the Fourteenth Amendment on June 13, 1866.[20] There being thirty-seven states in the Union at that time, twenty-eight ratifications were necessary for the Amendment's adoption. By July 9, 1868, twenty-eight states had ratified the Amendment:
Connecticut (June 25, 1866)
New Hampshire (July 6, 1866)
Tennessee (July 19, 1866)
New Jersey (September 11, 1866)
Oregon (September 19, 1866)
Vermont (October 30, 1866)
Ohio (January 4, 1867)*
New York (January 10, 1867)
Kansas (January 11, 1867)
Illinois (January 15, 1867)
West Virginia (January 16, 1867)
Michigan (January 16, 1867)
Minnesota (January 16, 1867)
Maine (January 19, 1867)
Nevada (January 22, 1867)
Indiana (January 23, 1867)
Missouri (January 25, 1867)
Rhode Island (February 7, 1867)
Wisconsin (February 7, 1867)
Pennsylvania (February 12, 1867)
Massachusetts (March 20, 1867)
Nebraska (June 15, 1867)
Iowa (March 16, 1868)
Arkansas (April 6, 1868)
Florida (June 9, 1868)
North Carolina (July 4, 1868, after having rejected it on December 14, 1866)
Louisiana (July 9, 1868, after having rejected it on February 6, 1867)
South Carolina (July 9, 1868, after having rejected it on December 20, 1866)

*Ohio passed a resolution that purported to withdraw its ratification on January 15, 1868. The New Jersey legislature also tried to rescind its ratification on February 20, 1868. The New Jersey governor had vetoed his state's withdrawal on March 5, and the legislature overrode the veto on March 24. Accordingly, on July 20, 1868, Secretary of State William H. Seward certified that the amendment had become part of the Constitution if the rescissions were ineffective. The Congress responded on the following day, declaring that the amendment was part of the Constitution and ordering Seward to promulgate the amendment.

Meanwhile, two additional states had ratified the amendment:
Alabama (July 13, 1868, the date the ratification was "approved" by the governor)
Georgia (July 21, 1868, after having rejected it on November 9, 1866)

Thus, on July 28, Seward was able to certify unconditionally that the Amendment was part of the Constitution without having to endorse the Congress's assertion that the withdrawals were ineffective.

There were additional ratifications and rescissions; by 2003, the Amendment had been ratified by every state in the Union as of 1868:[21]
Oregon (withdrew October 15, 1868)
Virginia (October 8, 1869, after having rejected it on January 9, 1867)
Mississippi (January 17, 1870)
Texas (February 18, 1870, after having rejected it on October 27, 1866)
Delaware (February 12, 1901, after having rejected it on February 7, 1867)
Maryland (1959)
California (1959)
Oregon (1973)
Kentucky (1976, after having rejected it on January 8, 1867)
New Jersey (2003, after having rescinded on February 20, 1868)
Ohio (2003, after having rescinded on January 15, 1868)

Controversy over ratification

In 1968, the Utah Supreme Court diverged from the habeas corpus issue in a case to express its resentment against recent decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court under the Fourteenth Amendment, and to attack the Amendment itself:

In order to have 27 states ratify the Fourteenth Amendment, it was necessary to count those states which had first rejected and then under the duress of military occupation had ratified, and then also to count those states which initially ratified but subsequently rejected the proposal.

To leave such dishonest counting to a fractional part of Congress is dangerous in the extreme. What is to prevent any political party having control of both houses of the Congress from refusing to seat the opposition and then without more passing a joint resolution to the effect that the Constitution is amended and that it is the duty of the Administrator of the General Services Administration to proclaim the adoption? Would the Supreme Court of the United States still say the problem was political and refuse to determine whether constitutional standards had been met?

How can it be conceived in the minds of anyone that a combination of powerful states can by force of arms deny another state a right to have representation in the Congress until it has ratified an amendment which its people oppose? The Fourteenth Amendment was adopted by means almost as bad as that suggested above.

A lot of "POLITICS and THREATS" in this 14th amendment

None of the civil war amendments were passed legally, the 13th, 14th, and 15th. The 13th is the only amendment to start out with the amendment number "The Thirteenth Amendment" as part of the actual amendment itself, which may have been to help remove another 13th amendment to the constitution that was published in law books before the civil war. The 16th amendment was never ratified which you can look up online, and the 17th amendment was never ratified because it affected States suffrage in the senate, which required unanimous consent not 3/4ths according to the constitution.

And you could probably go on. Thats 5-6 amendments right there, all vitally concerned with changing this country from a federation of republics as founded to something else.

BeFranklin
10-29-2008, 04:47 PM
Also when it was proposed in Congress it wouldn't have passed except they illegally threw a member out of the chamber when it came time to vote on the amendment. The person they ejected was against the amendment.

Also Nevada and West Virginia were not (and still to this day are not) legal States as set forth by the US Constitution. Therefore their votes should not be counted but they were.

Scary to think that much of our idea about "due process" is from an unratified or illegally ratified amendment. :eek:

Ohio was never legally admitted into the union either :p

They tried to retroactively admit it in 1953. I guess some hundred plus years of votes are invalid, including the Taft presidency.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1115/is-u-s-income-tax-invalid-because-ohio-wasnt-legally-a-state-when-the-16th-amendment-was-ratified

And yes, Cecil is on our side here :)

BeFranklin
10-29-2008, 04:54 PM
Also when it was proposed in Congress it wouldn't have passed except they illegally threw a member out of the chamber when it came time to vote on the amendment. The person they ejected was against the amendment.

Also Nevada and West Virginia were not (and still to this day are not) legal States as set forth by the US Constitution. Therefore their votes should not be counted but they were.

Scary to think that much of our idea about "due process" is from an unratified or illegally ratified amendment. :eek:

West Virgina was illegally split from a state without its consent according to the Constitution. Not sure I know about Nevada.

Matt Collins
10-29-2008, 10:58 PM
West Virgina was illegally split from a state without its consent according to the Constitution. Exactly. Lincoln wanted another state supporting him, so he took loyal counties from Virginia and made them into West Virginia; patently unconstitutional.

Matt Collins
10-29-2008, 11:04 PM
The 16th amendment was never ratified which you can look up onlineBill Benson's book "The Law that Never Was" http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com (http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com)