New C4L Site is Awful

[rose141]

First of all, especially in this "economic crisis," asking that you pay $35 to be a precinct leader or even to ask a fracking question or give a fracking answer...

I joined a Ron Paul meetup in my area, and I have helped a few members on their campaigns, because I was too young to run at the time. Guess what. It was free. Now, I look at my state and my precinct leader is someone I've *never* heard of. He never helped in the precinct before, and I had no say in who it was going to be, because I'm not able to shell out a mere $35 to vote. This is just going to be an organization full of class-war, and I'm 2 inches from dropping out of the C4L for good. What waste of time it has been.

And they didn't even cycle over all the members from the last site. We made it to over 100,000, but not everybody signed back up. We waited many months for the site to be put together, and in that time people have lost interest. Including me. They have announced "major" things, that always turn out to be very disappointing, and not major at all. People have cried wolf, and now other People have lost hope in it.

I'm going to go about this movement in my own way. I'll go to school for the movement and dedicate my career to the movement, but I don't have time or $$$ to waste on the C4L.

I've held on for as long as I can. I can't take this waiting game, and I sure can't take giving up a tank of gas to simply ask a question....:mad:

[dr. hfn]

whoa, slow down their missy. The fee is optional first of all. Do you expect the C4L to run on nothing? The C4L needs money to do stuff, anything. Look at what it has done already...stopped the Bailout in the House and is starting a nationwide education and hard hitting ad effort against those who voted for the bailout. they are making radio and print ads and flyers. This site is the best site for political organizing I've ever seen and it's only gonna get better! They are improving it everyday. And don't worry about all the people who signed up before, they are going to send an email to all of those people, I asked the web staff about it.

The C4L if it has good funding and is succesful in creating the state wide precinct leader programs will be a huge force to be reckoned with in 2012! This is about building up the infastructure and strength of the grassroots Liberty/Freedom Movement.

[Verad]

I think that it does make sense to charge a fee. It means that involvement is something people have to put an investment into up front, and should serve to reduce the number of members that will join because they are mildly interested only to slack off and not take it seriously enough. The initial investment also means that people have a certain amount invested in this particular organization from the start, which means they will be more likely to keep investing their time, money, and energy into it despite the fact that the $35 is a sunk cost. Basically, it is a sneaky way to have people to self select for those who place a certain value on membership, while at the same time raising money to enable the C4L to do the things it has set off to do.

[constituent]

Look at what it has done already...stopped the Bailout in the House

lol, c'mon now.

[constituent]

Basically, it is a sneaky way to have people to self select for those who place a certain value on membership, while at the same time raising money to enable the C4L to do the things it has set off to do.


pass.


too easy.

[constituent]

no one wants to address the thirty-five bucks to ask a question issue raised by the OP?

[tonesforjonesbones]

No they are going to ignore it and bury the thread. People are concerned as to where the money is going and what is really helping GRASSROOTS. How is this assisting LOCAL effoRts to get LIBerTY candidates elected on the local level. Now, i AM interested in the homeschool program..but where is it? I'm already on notice...sigh. I am not going to blindly follow ANYONE at my age. I want a mission statement and objectives. Is that too much to ask? I want it laid out step by step. The mission seems too broad..at least it seems to be in the "about us' section. It needs to be narrowed down and spelled out so we can get started. Tones

[ARealConservative]

First of all, especially in this "economic crisis," asking that you pay $35 to be a precinct leader or even to ask a fracking question or give a fracking answer...

I joined a Ron Paul meetup in my area, and I have helped a few members on their campaigns, because I was too young to run at the time. Guess what. It was free. Now, I look at my state and my precinct leader is someone I've *never* heard of. He never helped in the precinct before, and I had no say in who it was going to be, because I'm not able to shell out a mere $35 to vote. This is just going to be an organization full of class-war, and I'm 2 inches from dropping out of the C4L for good. What waste of time it has been.

And they didn't even cycle over all the members from the last site. We made it to over 100,000, but not everybody signed back up. We waited many months for the site to be put together, and in that time people have lost interest. Including me. They have announced "major" things, that always turn out to be very disappointing, and not major at all. People have cried wolf, and now other People have lost hope in it.

I'm going to go about this movement in my own way. I'll go to school for the movement and dedicate my career to the movement, but I don't have time or $$$ to waste on the C4L.

I've held on for as long as I can. I can't take this waiting game, and I sure can't take giving up a tank of gas to simply ask a question....:mad:

you joined a meetup group where the organizer was paying a heck of a lot more then $35 a year.

Basically what you are saying is you are a cheap ass and are not willing to donate $35 a year to this cause.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Why should people have to pay a fee to work their arse off for Liberty? What kind of sense does that make. Hell, I'd consider it a huge accomplishment that 110,000 people cared enough to volunteer to be footsoldiers for liberty. Tones

[ARealConservative]

Why should people have to pay a fee to work their arse off for Liberty? What kind of sense does that make. Hell, I'd consider it a huge accomplishment that 110,000 people cared enough to volunteer to be footsoldiers for liberty. Tones

First, you don't have to pay the fee. Sign up with your email and you can participate in events coordinated by those that pay the fee. This is actually no different then how meetup works. Do you people realize how much money meetup leaders were paying?

Secondly, do you not see how powerful an organization 110,000 strong that pays an annual $35 fee would become?

[tonesforjonesbones]

. Yes..I realize that yahoo groups functions just like the meetup ...for free. tones

[constituent]

Secondly, do you not see how powerful an organization 110,000 strong that pays an annual $35 fee would become?

that's a rather unsafe assumption.

or to rephrase.... 35(+) million dollars! Whaleaaaaaaahhhhlllll-be, i betcha we could win a presidential primary with that kinda money!


oh wait, n/m.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Yes, if the money was being filtered down to the precincts to help fund liberty candidates on the local level it would be very powerful. Tones

[constituent]

Yes, if the money was being filtered down to the precincts to help fund liberty candidates on the local level it would be very powerful. Tones

then what would be the point of the filter?

[tonesforjonesbones]

lOl constituent, i'm trying to be positive here. tones

[Razmear]

Didn't C4L start out with about 3million that was left over from Ron's campaign? Or was that the Ron Paul Liberty PAC? Either way, where did that money go and how come I haven't heard of any of it going towards our chosen candidates Lawson and Conley?

eb

[constituent]

lOl constituent, i'm trying to be positive here. tones

yea, i feel ya. unfortunately, this crew has taught us over the past year or so that being positive only encourages their continued (expensive) screw-ups.

only when they're beaten and berated over them does anything worthwhile ever get done.

like i told LE, i'm just sharpening their spears, though they don't have the sense between 'em to figure that out.

if their intentions were true it would be clear to them by now...

[LibertyEagle]

Didn't C4L start out with about 3million that was left over from Ron's campaign? Or was that the Ron Paul Liberty PAC? Either way, where did that money go and how come I haven't heard of any of it going towards our chosen candidates Lawson and Conley?

eb

A lot was spent on the Rally.

[tonesforjonesbones]

yep...that money went to pay for that ralley..and to pay salaries of the organizers. I don't see how that helps us get local candidates elected ...but it must have been a lot of fun. :rolleyes:

[Mahkato]

Many of C4L's problems are the result of legal restrictions. You have McCain-Feingold and similar bills to thank for that.

[ARealConservative]

look at the wallflowers bitch and moan.

That is the best thing about the $35 fee, it weeds the trolls out.

[constituent]

Many of C4L's problems are the result of legal restrictions. You have McCain-Feingold and similar bills to thank for that.

lol, as we play the blame game.

does the buck never stop?

[ARealConservative]

that's a rather unsafe assumption.

or to rephrase.... 35(+) million dollars! Whaleaaaaaaahhhhlllll-be, i betcha we could win a presidential primary with that kinda money!


oh wait, n/m.

the only assumption I see is you assuming I meant it would win presidential primaries.

[constituent]

look at the wallflowers bitch and moan.

That is the best thing about the $35 fee, it weeds the trolls out.

yea, i've actually attended our CFL meeting here, you?

[wallflower, lol]

35 bucks weeds out the trolls.... lol, straight out the greenspan's mouth.

what ridiculous paranoia (as you troll the thread... go figure.)

[constituent]

the only assumption I see is you assuming I meant it would win presidential primaries.

reading comprehension bro, work on it.

i was drawing you an analogy and showing you why your statement was utter fail.

[ARealConservative]

yea, i've actually attended our CFL meeting here, you?

35 bucks weeds out the trolls.... lol.

no, I didn't attend your cfl meeting there.


what ridiculous paranoia.

the trolls aren't out to get me.

[ARealConservative]

reading comprehension bro, work on it.

i was drawing you an analogy and showing you why your statement was utter fail.

an analogy based on a poor assumption.

fail back at you troll boy

[LibertyEagle]

yep...that money went to pay for that ralley..and to pay salaries of the organizers. I don't see how that helps us get local candidates elected ...but it must have been a lot of fun. :rolleyes:

The C4L can't do everything for you, Tones. If you see a good local candidate, donate to them and volunteer to help them.

[constituent]

no, I didn't attend your cfl meeting there.



the trolls aren't out to get me.


an analogy based on a poor assumption.

fail back at you troll boy

lol, i'm not the one trolling for a flamewar this a.m.

i've said my peace. rather than refute my points or answer the questions posed in this thread, you're here to shoot the messenger.

(and the analogy wasn't based on an assumption, it was based on past experience you dolt)

fine, whatever. i don't have the time for it.

peace, jr.

[tonesforjonesbones]

So.."dissenters"..or folks who are independent thinkers and not falling for collectivism are trolls and wallflowers? Those who raise valid questions are trolls? Why? i love Liberty as much as anyone on here...i just don't think I should have to pay 35 bucks to be validated. tones

[LibertyEagle]

So.."dissenters"..or folks who are independent thinkers and not falling for collectivism are trolls and wallflowers? Those who raise valid questions are trolls? Why? i love Liberty as much as anyone on here...i just don't think I should have to pay 35 bucks to be validated. tones

Who is forcing you to?

[ARealConservative]

So.."dissenters"..or folks who are independent thinkers and not falling for collectivism are trolls and wallflowers? Those who raise valid questions are trolls? Why? i love Liberty as much as anyone on here...i just don't think I should have to pay 35 bucks to be validated. tones

those that ignore the explanations as if they weren't provided are trolls.

the c4l website can function just like yahoo groups. you don't have to pay to be kept informed via email.

In addition, it replaces the function of meetup - which cost the organizer 140+ dollars a year and the drastically reduced fee goes to an organization dedicated to liberty. Too bad you aren't.

[constituent]

fee goes to an organization dedicated to liberty...

you mean the organization that told me to vote against tax breaks for the domain?

[Elle]

The $35 that is paid to become a precinct leader isn't so you can ask or answer a questions. That $35 helps cover the cost of obtaining rosters of voters within a precinct.

[constituent]

The $35 that is paid to become a precinct leader isn't so you can ask or answer a questions. That $35 helps cover the cost of obtaining rosters of voters within a precinct.

hmmm... my understanding per CFL'rs on the board in other threads was that an added benefit of the 35 bucks is that you are guaranteed a response to questions w/in 24 hrs.

apparently, they've failed to meet that obligation, and have a backlog of dues payers' questions that have gone unanswered.... naturally they get first priority (eventually)...

so effectively, yes, you must pay to have your questions answered, and even then....


probably not.

[ARealConservative]

you mean the organization that told me to vote against tax breaks for the domain?

didn't you say you were done trolling?

[Conza88]

So.."dissenters"..or folks who are independent thinkers and not falling for collectivism are trolls and wallflowers? Those who raise valid questions are trolls? Why? i love Liberty as much as anyone on here...i just don't think I should have to pay 35 bucks to be validated. tones


http://dean81.users.btopenworld.com/funny/retard.jpg

[Elle]

That is an added benefit, yes. Is it the reason for charging $35? No.

[Verad]

Before BJ Lawson was a candidate for congress, he was our local Ron Paul Meetup group organizer, and I know for a fact that he himself put more than a couple thousand dollars into the effort.

I don't understand what is wrong with requiring people to pay dues to be a part of an organization. Dues are what keep the gears turning and the doors open and a basic group of staff working to bring things together. Donations above and beyond that are what make the bigger things happen. If you don't think that the C4L is worth $35 a year, no one is forcing you to pay. As a matter of fact, if you can find a more efficient use of those same $35 to fight for liberty, then don't hesitate to spend it in that manner. That is one of the beautiful things about free markets; you always have a choice to spend your time and resources in the way you think is most beneficial to both yourself and your family, and when you choose to do so, for charity and philanthropic organizations.

I feel that the dues for the C4L are a good thing because they provide a certain amount of cash to keep the basics running, and because it serves as a good screening process the prevents people who do not have the time and resources available to sacrifice to make the organization successful, while still allowing people to help in other ways. But like I said, if you can find a more beneficial use of the same time and resources, do so, and for goodness sake, if you find some other method or idea that is very successful, please don't keep it to yourself.

For instance, I worked the polls for early voting for BJ's campaign the other day, and we were being killed by the partisanship inherent in perhaps one of the most liberal parts of the most liberal district in North Carolina at the point where our only resources were some slim jims, nicknamed "Price killers," but no way of breaking the ice with the common passerby that was probably going to vote straight ticket. Halfway through the day, one of the staff members dropped off pocket constitutions, with which we combined the resources we already had, and, as if by magic, people went from ignoring us 15 out of 16 people, to taking a moment to take one of our "liberty packs," and we started converting people left and right.

Right now the C4L may well be like the slim jims that myself and my coworkers at the polls started off with, but if you find some way to augment the R3volution by trying something else, do it! Be the pocket constitutions to our good but incomplete liberty packs.

[speciallyblend]

those that ignore the explanations as if they weren't provided are trolls.

the c4l website can function just like yahoo groups. you don't have to pay to be kept informed via email.

In addition, it replaces the function of meetup - which cost the organizer 140+ dollars a year and the drastically reduced fee goes to an organization dedicated to liberty. Too bad you aren't.

cheaper to pay dues with the CFL then meetup.com killing my meetup asap then i wil join the CFL. economics= cheaper to cmmunicate with the CFL, then meetup.com ,simple math!!!!

[Conza88]

Hey! All those bitchin' that they paid for a service and didn't get it... why not SUE C4L to get your $35 back!?!? :rolleyes:

Seriously, go do it... otherwise, you can shut the fuck up. :)

Why not go create your own Liberty Organization and go into competition with C4L... ;) See who can do it better... :p

Again, quit your fucken bitching... go do it yourself, let those in charge know what you, as a customer want, and be patient as they work together with you to make it better....

Otherwise... go cry me a river with all your sad negative bullshit whining...

Have a great and fabulous day. :D </rant @ lametards>

[ARealConservative]

Before BJ Lawson was a candidate for congress, he was our local Ron Paul Meetup group organizer, and I know for a fact that he himself put more than a couple thousand dollars into the effort.

I don't understand what is wrong with requiring people to pay dues to be a part of an organization. Dues are what keep the gears turning and the doors open and a basic group of staff working to bring things together. Donations above and beyond that are what make the bigger things happen. If you don't think that the C4L is worth $35 a year, no one is forcing you to pay. As a matter of fact, if you can find a more efficient use of those same $35 to fight for liberty, then don't hesitate to spend it in that manner. That is one of the beautiful things about free markets; you always have a choice to spend your time and resources in the way you think is most beneficial to both yourself and your family, and when you choose to do so, for charity and philanthropic organizations.

I feel that the dues for the C4L are a good thing because they provide a certain amount of cash to keep the basics running, and because it serves as a good screening process the prevents people who do not have the time and resources available to sacrifice to make the organization successful, while still allowing people to help in other ways. But like I said, if you can find a more beneficial use of the same time and resources, do so, and for goodness sake, if you find some other method or idea that is very successful, please don't keep it to yourself.

For instance, I worked the polls for early voting for BJ's campaign the other day, and we were being killed by the partisanship inherent in perhaps one of the most liberal parts of the most liberal district in North Carolina at the point where our only resources were some slim jims, nicknamed "Price killers," but no way of breaking the ice with the common passerby that was probably going to vote straight ticket. Halfway through the day, one of the staff members dropped off pocket constitutions, with which we combined the resources we already had, and, as if by magic, people went from ignoring us 15 out of 16 people, to taking a moment to take one of our "liberty packs," and we started converting people left and right.

Right now the C4L may well be like the slim jims that myself and my coworkers at the polls started off with, but if you find some way to augment the R3volution by trying something else, do it! Be the pocket constitutions to our good but incomplete liberty packs.

those complaining are full of shit. They are either sock puppet accounts of neocons, or they are mentally anguished people that only find happiness by trying to find things to be upset about.

They are easy to identify because all they ever do is bitch and moan. We have all had things we were not happy about, but when that is 100% your mo, it becomes obvious.

[MRoCkEd]

My complaint about C4L was that the design wasn't as impressive as I'd hoped... but I'm used to it now, and they are also getting a graphic designer and flash expert to make it better.

I think the precinct leader fee is acceptable - people who aren't willing to pay under $0.10 a day to have access to all of those tools might not be very dedicated precinct leaders anyway. If you want to be a precinct leader and truly can't afford it, try asking around here; I remember there were several posts from people who were willing to cover the cost for others.

C4L has a very ambitious agenda, and I am very excited about it:

They are:

* currently looking to expand the staff from 10 to 13. We are especially keen to hire a graphic design and flash programmer. If that's you, please submit cover letter, resume, professional and personal references, and work samples to amanda.lee@campaignforliberty.com.
* researching and scouting office space to accommodate a larger staff and a more ambitious agenda.
* also scouting locations on Capital Hill for Campaign for Liberty Media Studios where we will be able to produce news features, interviews, educational materials and, eventually, our own news broadcast.
* planning regional summits (sort of mini Rally for the Republics) that will likely begin late spring.
* developing a speaker's bureau that will organize lectures and conferences at universities around the country to give America's future leaders the chance to learn about sound money, natural rights, Austrian economics and a variety of other disciplines.
* preparing the Rally for the Republic DVDs for release on November 18th.
* developing homeschool curriculum for homeschool families.
* continuing to make improvements and upgrades to campaignforliberty.com.
* getting involved in events in 2009 including CPAC and the Conservative Leadership Conference.
* preparing a number of policy initiatives.
* developing a monthly donation program and a full-time fund-raising apparatus to ensure the long-term health and effectiveness of the organization.
* and more

[Verad]

those complaining are full of shit. They are either sock puppet accounts of neocons, or they are mentally anguished people that only find happiness by trying to find things to be upset about.

They are easy to identify because all they ever do is bitch and moan. We have all had things we were not happy about, but when that is 100% your mo, it becomes obvious.

Whether they are concerned for the future of liberty or are trolls, the purpose of my post was to rebut the idea that the C4L is not worth the money and then redirect the argument to a positive idea that does put the proverbial ball in their court. As long as those of us who desire liberty continue to bicker, rather than do anything productive, the enemies of liberty are gaining ground against us. I would rather encourage people to work in the way they best see fit for liberty, even if it doesn't jive with my particular idea of what works, so that we can see less energy directed into negative attacks, and more directed into winning over hearts and minds. Let's not fall prey to the same sectionalism that has condemned the Libertarian party to irrelevance almost immediately since its conception.

[ARealConservative]

Whether they are concerned for the future of liberty or are trolls, the purpose of my post was to rebut the idea that the C4L is not worth the money and then redirect the argument to a positive idea that does put the proverbial ball in their court. As long as those of us who desire liberty continue to bicker, rather than do anything productive, the enemies of liberty are gaining ground against us. I would rather encourage people to work in the way they best see fit for liberty, even if it doesn't jive with my particular idea of what works, so that we can see less energy directed into negative attacks, and more directed into winning over hearts and minds. Let's not fall prey to the same sectionalism that has condemned the Libertarian party to irrelevance almost immediately since its conception.

I like your spirit Verad.

I'm not sure that ignoring the trolls that actively try to undermine our efforts is the right road map, but I'm certainly not going to bicker with someone that wishes to be the solution and not the problem.

[constituent]

I like your spirit Verad.

I'm not sure that ignoring the trolls that actively try to undermine our efforts is the right road map, but I'm certainly not going to bicker with someone that wishes to be the solution and not the problem.

lol.

[rose141]

Like I said, $35 is a lot to me. I don't want to throw it at this so-far ineffective C4L. I don't understand why they can't run strictly on donations. I'd love to be a precinct leader, but I don't have the money. The guy who is in charge of my area is someone I've never heard of! For all I know, he's a "troll". He was never involved in the meet-up or any Ron Paul activities that *I* know of.

I mean, really. You think if the GOP or anybody wanted to infiltrate the $35 fee would stop them? If the C4L is a force to reckon with, you'd better bet the Fed would print money to send it!

It's a silly tactic to "weed out" people we don't want. Using money during admitted hard times as a sort of poll test of loving liberty is well...

Not effective.

[ARealConservative]

Like I said, $35 is a lot to me. I don't want to throw it at this so-far ineffective C4L. I don't understand why they can't run strictly on donations. I'd love to be a precinct leader, but I don't have the money. The guy who is in charge of my area is someone I've never heard of! For all I know, he's a "troll". He was never involved in the meet-up or any Ron Paul activities that *I* know of.

I mean, really. You think if the GOP or anybody wanted to infiltrate the $35 fee would stop them? If the C4L is a force to reckon with, you'd better bet the Fed would print money to send it!

It's a silly tactic to "weed out" people we don't want. Using money during admitted hard times as a sort of poll test of loving liberty is well...

Not effective.

so sign up as a non paid member.....or don't.

wgas

[Mahkato]

I'd love to be a precinct leader, but I don't have the money.

Have you considered asking people in your area for a sponsored membership?

[ARealConservative]

Have you considered asking people in your area for a sponsored membership?

If someone can’t afford $35 a year, I don’t see how they can effectively handle the responsibilities.

IMHO An effective precinct leader will spend more then $35 on info to hand out, gas mileage/long distance charges to attend meetings or participate on conference calls, create signs and banners, etc, etc.

[Gin]

Like I said, $35 is a lot to me. I don't want to throw it at this so-far ineffective C4L. I don't understand why they can't run strictly on donations. I'd love to be a precinct leader, but I don't have the money. The guy who is in charge of my area is someone I've never heard of! For all I know, he's a "troll". He was never involved in the meet-up or any Ron Paul activities that *I* know of.

I mean, really. You think if the GOP or anybody wanted to infiltrate the $35 fee would stop them? If the C4L is a force to reckon with, you'd better bet the Fed would print money to send it!

It's a silly tactic to "weed out" people we don't want. Using money during admitted hard times as a sort of poll test of loving liberty is well...

Not effective.

As a single mom that just got laid off, I can totally understand being picky about what you spend your money on...

I personally feel it is a good investment... All the learning materials they have already and plan to have on the site are worth much more than $35 a yr. Knowledge is power and in order to get that knowledge you have to be willing to make sacrifices... in this instance a $35 a yr membership fee.

As far as having a choice who your Precinct Leader is... there is not a vote... if you chose to be one... the sign up... if you don't, then don't complain.

You have to remember that this site is what...a whopping 26 days old.... how much do you think 10 ppl can do in less than a month... Geez give 'em a break..

CFL is growing in leaps and bounds.. If you can't see past what already has happened and look toward what could happen, then that's your fault.

If you chose not to pay the fee, so be it.... I personally see it as a wonderful asset for those of us who didn't care about politics and now see that we need a quick lesson in the right ways of Government so that in the next election cycle we can actually make a big impact on regaining our Freedoms...

[steph3n]

Just FYI meetup WAS NOT free. you joined free because someone paid for it for you(most likely the founder of the group)

[ARealConservative]

Just FYI meetup WAS NOT free. you joined free because someone paid for it for you(most likely the founder of the group)

exactly. The meetup leader was paying a minimum of $144 a year, and that money was going to meetup, not to a liberty oriented group to put to good use.

[MRoCkEd]

exactly. The meetup leader was paying a minimum of $144 a year, and that money was going to meetup, not to a liberty oriented group to put to good use.
bingo

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

$35, are you kidding? I spend more than that every time I go out drinking. If you can't afford that on an annual basis for a worthy cause like this then you should be spending your time looking for a better job.