How are you voting? Props 7-12

[H Roark]

prop 7: Renewable energy generation. Initiative statute.

Prop 8: Eliminates right of same–sex couples to marry. Initiative constitutional amendment.

Prop 9: Criminal justice system. Victims’ rights. Parole. Initiative constitutional amendment and statute.

Prop 10: Alternative fuel vehicles and renewable energy.
Bonds. Initiative statute.

Prop 11: Redistricting.
Initiative constitutional amendment and statute.

Prop 12: Veterans’ bond act of 2008.

Pulled these off of: http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/
You can read more about each of them there.

(Thanks frankdog)

[sidster]

....

[blocks]

Voting no on all of these...

The scare tactics being used in support of Prop 8 are ridiculous. "Tolerance is one thing, but now everyone is forced to accept gay marriage."

"Tolerance is one thing, but now everyone is forced to accept women voting." The same twisted logic.

Some of the softer supporters say that they support equal rights for same sex couples, but "gay marriage" warps the idea of marriage.

I just don't get it. The state shouldn't be in the business of marriage anyway. When it comes down to it...it's just a contract, that's it. Any proposed law forbidding two consenting adult into entering a contract is anti-liberty.

[craezie]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree on Prop 8.

Marriage is not just a contract because it is the foundation of all familial and intestacy laws. Should this type of marriage be made legal, it will profoundly change everything. For example, in California law a child born in a marriage is presumed to belong to the mother and father apart from any kind of DNA testing etc. Those two people are legally responsible for that child no matter what. If a child were born in a "marriage" of two women, I don't think the same kind of legal responsibility could or should be assessed. Inheritance laws giving one generations assets to the spouse of another generation, which cannot produce any children in their union, could also become a long term problem.

I do believe that the definition of marriage is a lifetime (or until dissolved) union of one man and one woman who are non-related and of the age of consent. The only reason that the government should be involved at all and records marriages are for the reasons protecting children and intestacy. If you change any part of the above formula, call it what you may, it is not marriage and the protections of the law are comprimised.

Finally, I am sick of people saying that this is some kind of discrimination and it is "wrong to take away fundamental rights". "Rights" that have been around for all of a couple months? The truth is that no gay person in California is prevented from getting married. They just have to marry a human being of the opposite sex who is not related and of age. Just like everyone else. The fact that they don't wish to comply with part of that formula is no more discrimination that if I want to marry my brother and the court/ law says no.

[dannno]

craezie, why do you hate gay people?



Should have added Prop 2 and Prop 5 to the poll... at least make things interesting ;)

[JosephTheLibertarian]

prop 7: Renewable energy generation. Initiative statute.

I'd vote no. I would however like to reform it by *only* requiring government facilities to adhere to the mandates.

I would vote no because it ivolves government in the economy.

Prop 8: Eliminates right of same–sex couples to marry. Initiative constitutional amendment.

I'd vote no. Banning gay marriage licenses would be a violation of civil rights.

Prop 9: Criminal justice system. Victims’ rights. Parole. Initiative constitutional amendment and statute.

I'd vote no. It would cost tax payers an increase of hundreds of millions of dollars. The savings in the low millions are not enough to persuade a fiscal conservative like myself.


Potential loss of future state savings on prison operations and potential increased county jail operating costs that could collectively amount to hundreds of millions of dollars annually, due to restricting the early release of inmates to reduce facility overcrowding.

This is my citing ^^^^

Prop 10: Alternative fuel vehicles and renewable energy.
Bonds. Initiative statute.

I'd vote no for the obvious reasons.

Prop 11: Redistricting.
Initiative constitutional amendment and statute.

I'd probably vote no, but I'd need to research the current redistricting procedures before deciding on how I would officially vote. There would be some extra costs, but if it prevents gerrymandering, then the extra costs would be miniscule in comparison to the benefts of the reformation proposal.

Prop 12: Veterans’ bond act of 2008.

No way. Let veterans purchase their own god damn farms

point

[craezie]

craezie, why do you hate gay people?



I hope you are kidding.

[craezie]

[b]Prop 11: Redistricting.
Initiative constitutional amendment and statute.

I'd probably vote no, but I'd need to research the current redistricting procedures before deciding on how I would officially vote. There would be some extra costs, but if it prevents gerrymandering, then the extra costs would be miniscule in comparison to the benefts of the reformation proposal.



You don't live here so it probably doesn't matter, but I believe that everyone needs to vote YES on this one. California is a state where the politicians in state congress get to decide their own districts and there is severe gerrymandering. Basically, they make sure that no seat ever changes parties, and the incumbent almost always wins. This is the only way to make elections fair again, and nudge the politicians to at least try to follow the will of the people.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

You don't live here so it probably doesn't matter, but I believe that everyone needs to vote YES on this one. California is a state where the politicians in state congress get to decide their own districts and there is severe gerrymandering. Basically, they make sure that no seat ever changes parties, and the incumbent almost always wins. This is the only way to make elections fair again, and nudge the politicians to at least try to follow the will of the people.

ok. I might... I just took it at face value.

Sounds like an improvement.

[dannno]

I hope you are kidding.

heh, ya :p


I still take Ron Paul's stance on the issue.. let the government enforce contracts, let people make their own contracts, keep the govt. out of marriage. Marriage is about religion. If marriage wasn't a state function and only a religious one, then trust me, 99% of gay people wouldn't even want to get married.

[heavenlyboy34]

heh, ya :p


i still take ron paul's stance on the issue.. Let the government enforce contracts, let people make their own contracts, keep the govt. Out of marriage. Marriage is about religion. If marriage wasn't a state function and only a religious one, then trust me, 99% of gay people wouldn't even want to get married.

+1776

[blocks]

You don't live here so it probably doesn't matter, but I believe that everyone needs to vote YES on this one. California is a state where the politicians in state congress get to decide their own districts and there is severe gerrymandering. Basically, they make sure that no seat ever changes parties, and the incumbent almost always wins. This is the only way to make elections fair again, and nudge the politicians to at least try to follow the will of the people.

Well Prop 11 creates a huge, complicated bureaucratic system to draw the district lines. The most simple and sensible solution would be having a computer draw the lines...But of course no political faction or special interests could influence such a common sense idea, so both CA Republicans and Democrats would oppose it.

[blocks]

Well Prop 11 creates a huge, complicated bureaucratic system to draw the district lines. The most simple and sensible solution would be having a computer draw the lines...But of course no political faction or special interests could influence such a common sense idea, so both CA Republicans and Democrats would oppose it.

Then again, I reheard the fact today that for the past two election cycles, not a SINGLE seat in the 130-something state legislature has changed hands...so SOMETHING needs to be done. I don't know, maybe a coin toss by the time I get to the ballot tomorrow.

[akihabro]

I voted no on prop 8. I am heterosexual and worked with a gay guy. He was really cool actually. I just don't believe in the gov't telling you who u can and can't marry. Why do we need a marriage license? Its a religious unification, and a business contract. Business transactions involve the gov't and taxes :mad:

[akihabro]

Well Prop 11 creates a huge, complicated bureaucratic system to draw the district lines. The most simple and sensible solution would be having a computer draw the lines...But of course no political faction or special interests could influence such a common sense idea, so both CA Republicans and Democrats would oppose it.
Yah my districts are wierd. I call for everyone drawing a district as they see fit with a etch a sketch and voting for it! That's how they look! Sad an earthquake doesn't erase the lines.