Magicman
10-19-2008, 05:47 PM
Alright, I am not supporting Mccain nor is this a plug, but someone brought up this point on a discussion board and it maybe one of the wisest things I've heard said. Think about how the U.S. and the French Revolution started and how important it is to keep pacifism out of our system. If Obama wins it would mean that the hands will be clean who are planning to destroy our system and only blind the masses into the false two-party paradigm shift. If Mccain wins then it will help create REAL change by inciting anger which only leads to truth and more of the masses awakening. This path leads to a possible victory in the future and a way to throw out all of the scumbags from office. It might not be pretty but at least this way WE can make a change and the other might only allow government tyranny to become on a more permanent mold.
From Sobi:
ok. I honestly don't think that the system has been that good for a while. If you look back throughout the course of this countries history, we've always had a "political pendulum". The trend has (for the most part) always shown the public favoring a democratic/republican shift when the current administration has swung too far to one side.
Right now, even as you agreed, mainstream everyday people are starting to catch on to the stink of our soured political system. It goes beyond just the two party set up, and into the root of our government, but I digress. Most people are only starting to wake up to the failed 2 party set up. This is only due to the state of things being so bad.
That's essentially where and why I honestly believe change can come from not pacifying the masses... who are truly asses. You and I are more or less on the same page. Where we split is that you (I assume) want change now. I do too, but I believe that instant change will only calm what is finally starting to simmer... that low morale in the system.
Obama would change things, but as good as he is for the immediate future, his fixes wouldn't reach far enough. Consider our country your body and our government your heart or brain. Certain cancers set in. Consider them politicians. It wasn't always like that, but eventually, the system got saturated with these cancers. I just see Obama as a means to give you a few more months and some comfort, though inevitably, that will take the feeling (the start of a boiling point) that is happening right now among the general public about our system, and bring it back to being pacified. Then what? Business as usual. The next guy comes in, fucks up again, and when we might have another (these are just examples... not endorsements as people who should "save us" at the moment) Ross Perot, Ron Paul, or Ralph Nader in the wings that truly could make a difference, the little bit of public disdain has faded from the little improvements that Obama... or any other "shift of the pendulum" has made. The momentum is lost with the little change, and disables that HUGE 90 degree turn we need to take politically as a country. That being said, here is why I see more of the same being a solution.
Having McCain, or any other person who keeps us on this path, keeps that momentum going. This is a long term thing but it's already at work. You yourself admit that you see mainstream people that you PERSONALLY talk to starting to lose faith in our government, and have disdain towards the way things are run. That disdain is IMO the only thing that will ever have the power to COMPLETELY give the whole system an overhaul. In order for that to happen though, it can't be a simmer. That's where we are at now. Sure it gets someone good in the high seat, but we need to clear the whole table at this point. This thing is like a pressure cooker. If we continue to make the average mainstream person keep boiling, eventually, they blow their lid and it pours over to the next person who isn't there yet. We get to the point where more people are free thinkers like you and I are. Seeing the system for the failure it is and wanting to effectively clean house. The key is to keep things bad in order to breed more of what we need. More of the people I asked you about in that question. Eventually, we end up with a majority, but it takes time and sacrifice. Settling for that quick fix isn't going to work. Instant gratification is a problem we have to overcome, though that's a whole other argument about the state of this countries populace.
Believe me... I see nothing but disaster coming out of what I want in the short term. More of a police state, financial collapse, and just generally VERY VERY hard times, if not disastrous times for most of us. But in the end it might teach the general populace something, and in the long term, that's what we all need.
After all that, I leave you with the full version of Thomas Jefferson's quote that I posted earlier.
From Sobi:
ok. I honestly don't think that the system has been that good for a while. If you look back throughout the course of this countries history, we've always had a "political pendulum". The trend has (for the most part) always shown the public favoring a democratic/republican shift when the current administration has swung too far to one side.
Right now, even as you agreed, mainstream everyday people are starting to catch on to the stink of our soured political system. It goes beyond just the two party set up, and into the root of our government, but I digress. Most people are only starting to wake up to the failed 2 party set up. This is only due to the state of things being so bad.
That's essentially where and why I honestly believe change can come from not pacifying the masses... who are truly asses. You and I are more or less on the same page. Where we split is that you (I assume) want change now. I do too, but I believe that instant change will only calm what is finally starting to simmer... that low morale in the system.
Obama would change things, but as good as he is for the immediate future, his fixes wouldn't reach far enough. Consider our country your body and our government your heart or brain. Certain cancers set in. Consider them politicians. It wasn't always like that, but eventually, the system got saturated with these cancers. I just see Obama as a means to give you a few more months and some comfort, though inevitably, that will take the feeling (the start of a boiling point) that is happening right now among the general public about our system, and bring it back to being pacified. Then what? Business as usual. The next guy comes in, fucks up again, and when we might have another (these are just examples... not endorsements as people who should "save us" at the moment) Ross Perot, Ron Paul, or Ralph Nader in the wings that truly could make a difference, the little bit of public disdain has faded from the little improvements that Obama... or any other "shift of the pendulum" has made. The momentum is lost with the little change, and disables that HUGE 90 degree turn we need to take politically as a country. That being said, here is why I see more of the same being a solution.
Having McCain, or any other person who keeps us on this path, keeps that momentum going. This is a long term thing but it's already at work. You yourself admit that you see mainstream people that you PERSONALLY talk to starting to lose faith in our government, and have disdain towards the way things are run. That disdain is IMO the only thing that will ever have the power to COMPLETELY give the whole system an overhaul. In order for that to happen though, it can't be a simmer. That's where we are at now. Sure it gets someone good in the high seat, but we need to clear the whole table at this point. This thing is like a pressure cooker. If we continue to make the average mainstream person keep boiling, eventually, they blow their lid and it pours over to the next person who isn't there yet. We get to the point where more people are free thinkers like you and I are. Seeing the system for the failure it is and wanting to effectively clean house. The key is to keep things bad in order to breed more of what we need. More of the people I asked you about in that question. Eventually, we end up with a majority, but it takes time and sacrifice. Settling for that quick fix isn't going to work. Instant gratification is a problem we have to overcome, though that's a whole other argument about the state of this countries populace.
Believe me... I see nothing but disaster coming out of what I want in the short term. More of a police state, financial collapse, and just generally VERY VERY hard times, if not disastrous times for most of us. But in the end it might teach the general populace something, and in the long term, that's what we all need.
After all that, I leave you with the full version of Thomas Jefferson's quote that I posted earlier.