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Real_CaGeD
10-17-2008, 08:51 PM
Incoming liberal super majority spells the end of America I am afraid. I love the way FOX, Rush, and Hannity "the great american" led the people right to socialism.

It is a sad time.

I am afraid that liberty is lost. The people will not stand.

torchbearer
10-17-2008, 08:54 PM
Are you willing to die to change it?

MsDoodahs
10-17-2008, 08:54 PM
yep...it is the end of the grand experiment.

LibertyEagle
10-17-2008, 08:56 PM
It sure as hell IS lost, if you give up.

shuffleproshaq
10-17-2008, 08:56 PM
What a bunch of drama queens.

Zera
10-17-2008, 08:57 PM
Socialism will never be fully implemented in America, I don't see why you guys are getting so worried. In fact, probably none of Obama's policies will get put in for many reasons. Just look forward... I've said it before, Obama winning will be helpful to our cause much, much more than McCain winning.

klamath
10-17-2008, 08:57 PM
Yep. This election has turned into a referendum on the free market. We are going to have a major rejection of the free market even if this isn't the free market. But the free market will take the blame.

torchbearer
10-17-2008, 08:58 PM
Socialism will never be fully implemented in America, I don't see why you guys are getting so worried. In fact, probably none of Obama's policies will get put in for many reasons. Just look forward... I've said it before, Obama winning will be helpful to our cause much, much more than McCain winning.

Oh, and I thought they were nationalizing all our banking system.... i must have dreamt that.
No socialist country here... move along.

MsDoodahs
10-17-2008, 08:59 PM
Yep. This election has turned into a referendum on the free market. We are going to have a major rejection of the free market even if this isn't the free market. But the free market will take the blame.

Exactly.

ClockwiseSpark
10-17-2008, 08:59 PM
yep...it is the end of the grand experiment.

It is not over while we breathe. I have no intention of submitting nor will I fight "on my doorstep".

Zera
10-17-2008, 09:00 PM
Oh, and I thought they were nationalizing all our banking system.... i must have dreamt that.
No socialist country here... move along.

I was speaking on Obama's part since it's pretty clear he'll win, but I'm pretty damn sure McCain would pull the same shit as well. Fact is, either way, we're getting screwed, but with Obama anyway, we have time to fix the GOP.

RickyJ
10-17-2008, 09:01 PM
Socialism will never be fully implemented in America, I don't see why you guys are getting so worried. In fact, probably none of Obama's policies will get put in for many reasons. Just look forward... I've said it before, Obama winning will be helpful to our cause much, much more than McCain winning.

Yeah, very little of what Obama says will happen if he wins. He will do whatever the elite tell him to do. What he saying now is just part of the show. I don't think Obama or McCain winning will do anything for our cause though. The only way our cause can be helped is if the third parties do very well.

torchbearer
10-17-2008, 09:03 PM
I was speaking on Obama's part since it's pretty clear he'll win, but I'm pretty damn sure McCain would pull the same shit as well. Fact is, either way, we're getting screwed, but with Obama anyway, we have time to fix the GOP.

I'm saying we are already there. It doesn't matter who is elected. We are there.
Bush is signing this country away to collectivism.


Eventually the segment of the population that is enslaved to the majority will rise up.

Real_CaGeD
10-17-2008, 09:06 PM
It is not over while we breathe. I have no intention of submitting nor will I fight "on my doorstep".


Give me a break, all i see is hundreds of Oboma and McCain Yard signs. The people are STUPID. I am so glad I do not have children to worry about.

Larry McDonald showed more Patriotism in that NWO video fro 1983 than I have seen total from any "leader" in my life time. It is hopeless, people do not even understand what this nation was about.

It is over.

They will even fly another flag over the stars and bars in a few years I bet.

ClockwiseSpark
10-17-2008, 09:09 PM
Give me a break, all i see is hundreds of Oboma and McCain Yard signs. The people are STUPID. I am so glad I do not have children to worry about.

Larry McDonald showed more Patriotism in that NWO video fro 1983 than I have seen total from any "leader" in my life time. It is hopeless, people do not even understand what this nation was about.

It is over.

They will even fly another flag over the stars and bars in a few years I bet.

Perhaps what you say will come true, perhaps not.

I will continue to fight this to this best of my ability, whatever that may mean but I have no intention to allow myself or my children to live as slaves.

Real_CaGeD
10-17-2008, 09:11 PM
Perhaps what you say will come true, perhaps not.

I will continue to fight this to this best of my ability, whatever that may mean but I have no intention to allow myself or my children to live as slaves.

We do not even have the machine tools to make field artillery.

We have been destroyed.

ClockwiseSpark
10-17-2008, 09:13 PM
We do not even have the machine tools to make field artillery.

We have been destroyed.

That's not entirely true but I see what you're saying.

I'll say this, there are other ways.

Arkris
10-17-2008, 10:34 PM
We do not even have the machine tools to make field artillery.

We have been destroyed.

America must make some pretty damn good artillery if they could hit ya all the way from Iraq or Afghanistan. And what's with this talk of invading Iran, Pakistan, and Georgia?

There's a phrase I learned from "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" that always gives me hope when things seem hopeless, "There is no dilemma that cannot be solved by a disciplined mind."

tonesforjonesbones
10-17-2008, 10:37 PM
I have to say..now is the time to play it smart. With McCain we have a chance in 2012...with Obama....it's over. tones

Zera
10-17-2008, 10:41 PM
I have to say..now is the time to play it smart. With McCain we have a chance in 2012...with Obama....it's over. tones

Yeah, because challenging an incumbent from within the party is much easier...

AJ Antimony
10-17-2008, 10:41 PM
Nah. When rank and file Republicans are in the significant minority, they'll put up a hard fight in support of the Constitution. It's only when Republicans are in the majority when they become Nazis.

tonesforjonesbones
10-17-2008, 10:43 PM
McCain won't last 2 terms..he's too old. 2012 is our chance...not if Obama and the communists sweep though. I am praying diebold works its magic in McCains favor...PLEASE GOD. tones

RSLudlum
10-17-2008, 10:48 PM
I'm more concerned about Congress. If both McCain and Obama are really more similar than the media likes to portray them, I say we need to concentrate on unseating those in congress that are really doing the damage by sending bills up for the president to sign. Screw the presidential election and the false choice of a wannabe king. As US voters we are not king-makers hence a Constitutional democratic republic. Concentrate on those that make the laws, the Congress!!!


ok...my late night rant is over and done with. I feel better now :D

Zera
10-17-2008, 10:50 PM
McCain won't last 2 terms..he's too old. 2012 is our chance...not if Obama and the communists sweep though. I am praying diebold works its magic in McCains favor...PLEASE GOD. tones

I can see him lasting four more years. Then if he dies in his second term, we'd be screwed and left with Palin.

You sure you want that?

yongrel
10-17-2008, 10:51 PM
No.

Zera
10-17-2008, 10:53 PM
No.

Agreed. Everyone needs to settle down and look ahead. We've known for months one of these clowns would win, and most of us already knew Obama was going to win. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I guarantee nothing will change at all under either presidency, so let's just continue to do our business.

tonesforjonesbones
10-17-2008, 10:53 PM
McCAin is ill. He won't last. I like Palin..maybe we could convince her to run with RON PAUL..although he'll be old too. Maybe Chuck Baldwin??? They are both good Christians. That woudl be a lovely ticket! Tonez

tonesforjonesbones
10-17-2008, 10:54 PM
PALIN / BALDWIN 2012!!! Now THAT is something to look forward to! I will begin praying now. TONES

ClockwiseSpark
10-17-2008, 10:56 PM
PALIN / BALDWIN 2012!!! Now THAT is something to look forward to! I will begin praying now. TONES

lol

You've gone off the deep end.

tonesforjonesbones
10-17-2008, 10:58 PM
Why? Palin and Baldwin are GOOD Christians and libertarian leaning. I want this ticket in 2012. tones

Arkris
10-17-2008, 11:00 PM
I'm more concerned about Congress. If both McCain and Obama are really more similar than the media likes to portray them, I say we need to concentrate on unseating those in congress that are really doing the damage by sending bills up for the president to sign. Screw the presidential election and the false choice of a wannabe king. As US voters we are not king-makers hence a Constitutional democratic republic. Concentrate on those that make the laws, the Congress!!!


ok...my late night rant is over and done with. I feel better now :D

I agree with RSLudlum. Our best bet is to chip away at the lawmakers, a few at a time. I guess winning a Presidential election was hoping for a little too much all at once. Besides, a hostile Congress would make everything as tough as pulling teeth for a RP Presidency.

jcarcinogen
10-18-2008, 12:34 AM
Bush laid the framework for the most power the executive branch ever had. Obama promises to create jobs the way FDR did, 'public works' for energy since there are very few real jobs left here.

I hope that we can make it 4 years without becoming a National Socialist country with a strong military. He has said he wants to change the world...

ronpaulitician
10-18-2008, 12:40 AM
Plenty of my colleagues still bring up Ron Paul in a positive way (even though the vast majority of them will happily vote for Obama). Things will likely get worse, but I think there's still a chance that there are enough freedom-loving people in the US to pick up the pieces and rebuild a better America.

raiha
10-18-2008, 12:55 AM
I am afraid that liberty is lost.

I think it got lost eight years ago when the neocons took office. Nobody but nobody could be worse than Bush...except maybe Palin.

alaric
10-18-2008, 01:20 AM
Give me a break, all i see is hundreds of Oboma and McCain Yard signs. The people are STUPID. I am so glad I do not have children to worry about.

Larry McDonald showed more Patriotism in that NWO video fro 1983 than I have seen total from any "leader" in my life time. It is hopeless, people do not even understand what this nation was about.

It is over.

They will even fly another flag over the stars and bars in a few years I bet.

I think the next movement will be secession. We have to pick a state or states that are real, go there and secede.

alaric
10-18-2008, 01:25 AM
I agree with RSLudlum. Our best bet is to chip away at the lawmakers, a few at a time. I guess winning a Presidential election was hoping for a little too much all at once. Besides, a hostile Congress would make everything as tough as pulling teeth for a RP Presidency.

Nope, Ron would have cleaned house with the titles of nobility clause to clear out the lawyers. Then he would have trashed most of the rest for violating their oath of office.

EndTheFed
10-18-2008, 01:26 AM
McCain won't last 2 terms..he's too old. 2012 is our chance...not if Obama and the communists sweep though. I am praying diebold works its magic in McCains favor...PLEASE GOD. tones


:D

EndTheFed
10-18-2008, 01:27 AM
PALIN / BALDWIN 2012!!! Now THAT is something to look forward to! I will begin praying now. TONES

:eek: :D

silverhawks
10-18-2008, 01:42 AM
Why? Palin and Baldwin are GOOD Christians and libertarian leaning. I want this ticket in 2012. tones

You are smoking crack if you seriously think that Palin is libertarian.

She is a FAR right-wing Conservative, connected with a doomsday cult that believes apocalypse is imminent and that democracy should be erased and replaced with theocracy - THEIR theocracy. They don't believe in separation of church and state; they believe that they should be the same thing - making them religious extremists in the same vein of most Islamic extremists.

It's pretty obvious that she's using McCain as a stepping stone to greater power - and I don't think someone who grew up in a church that believes Alaska is a refuge for the chosen in the end times should be allowed ANYWHERE near the command of the US military or nuclear codes.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
10-18-2008, 01:43 AM
Why? Palin and Baldwin are GOOD Christians and libertarian leaning. I want this ticket in 2012. tonesPunishing women for rape kits and then politically backhanding the sheriff who tries to defend them is not GOOD

I'd be ashamed of Baldwin or Paul if either ever associated with that miserable cunt.

silverhawks
10-18-2008, 01:44 AM
And if Obama seriously attempts any kind of takeover (communist or otherwise) of this country, then its not just a revolution, we'll have a civil war on our hands for certain.

nbhadja
10-18-2008, 02:46 AM
I have to say..now is the time to play it smart. With McCain we have a chance in 2012...with Obama....it's over. tones

Shut up troll. All of your posts are about defending liberal McCain.

nbhadja
10-18-2008, 02:47 AM
PALIN / BALDWIN 2012!!! Now THAT is something to look forward to! I will begin praying now. TONES

Palin is a fucking whore who thinks god told us to invade Iraq. She said war with Russia might be needed, same with Iran.

Oh and she is for huge government and ran the biggest welfare state as governor.

hotbrownsauce
10-18-2008, 03:03 AM
Incoming liberal super majority spells the end of America I am afraid. I love the way FOX, Rush, and Hannity "the great american" led the people right to socialism.

It is a sad time.

I am afraid that liberty is lost. The people will not stand.



Lets pack up and go home (Not). Socialism wont go away over night, don't get ahead of yourself.

LittleLightShining
10-18-2008, 03:47 AM
I think the next movement will be secession. We have to pick a state or states that are real, go there and secede.Perhaps. Or states could follow suit with Oklahoma and declare themselves sovereign.

The thirty-thousand.org idea is a good one, too, and I can't stop thinking about it.

tonesforjonesbones
10-18-2008, 06:52 AM
Alaska wants secession. Sarah Palin supports secession. Stop reading the Huffington post and daily kooks and you might be able to think clearly. Sarah Palin is a good christian family woman...she is a frontieer woman. Shame on all of you who live and breathe those communist rags. tones

Truth Warrior
10-18-2008, 06:57 AM
Was this "Ron Paul revolution" the last gasp?
Not for me. ;)

LibertyEagle
10-18-2008, 07:04 AM
You are smoking crack if you seriously think that Palin is libertarian.

She is a FAR right-wing Conservative, connected with a doomsday cult that believes apocalypse is imminent and that democracy should be erased and replaced with theocracy - THEIR theocracy. They don't believe in separation of church and state; they believe that they should be the same thing - making them religious extremists in the same vein of most Islamic extremists.

You seriously don't understand the political spectrum. Please watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODJfwa9XKZQ

slacker921
10-18-2008, 07:05 AM
Alaska wants secession. Sarah Palin supports secession. Stop reading the Huffington post and daily kooks and you might be able to think clearly. Sarah Palin is a good christian family woman...she is a frontieer woman. Shame on all of you who live and breathe those communist rags. tones


She'd be a perfect match for Baldwin - Theocracy 2012!!!!!!!

LibertyEagle
10-18-2008, 07:06 AM
Alaska wants secession. Sarah Palin supports secession. Stop reading the Huffington post and daily kooks and you might be able to think clearly. Sarah Palin is a good christian family woman...she is a frontieer woman. Shame on all of you who live and breathe those communist rags. tones

She has sold her soul.

She now supports:


Preemptive war
No Child Left Behind
Carbon caps (in support of Kyoto)


What's next?

LibertyEagle
10-18-2008, 07:10 AM
She'd be a perfect match for Baldwin - Theocracy 2012!!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

Our country was founded on Christian principles. Deal with it.

I have never heard Baldwin say that he wanted to dictate the religion someone should practice, or whether they should practice one at all. It's unconstitutional. Yes, just like Ron Paul, he has his own personal beliefs, but since he is a strong proponent of the Constitution, they both understand that their own personal beliefs don't matter.

Ron Paul is a Christian too, you know. Hate him too?

Truth Warrior
10-18-2008, 07:29 AM
THE MASONIC FOUNDATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES
http://www.watch.pair.com/mason.html#fathers



American Masonic History
What Are America's True Roots?*
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/mashist.htm

LibertyEagle
10-18-2008, 07:44 AM
Yes, some were Masons. Some of them, like George Washington, became disillusioned with what it had become and repudiated it before his death.

Our Founders had studied and knew history well. They tried to take the best of what had existed in government to create our own. The Roman republic influenced them greatly and we see those symbols all over.

tonesforjonesbones
10-18-2008, 08:23 AM
Great video Liberty. I am praying that Palin is infiltating. I am praying she hangs onto her paleoconservative roots. If she doesn't play the game she won't get in the door. If i'm wrong..well I gave it my best shot. I know I'm not into this libertarian anarchist theme that has been dominating the forum. tones

moostraks
10-18-2008, 08:36 AM
Alaska wants secession. Sarah Palin supports secession. Stop reading the Huffington post and daily kooks and you might be able to think clearly. Sarah Palin is a good christian family woman...she is a frontieer woman. Shame on all of you who live and breathe those communist rags. tones

A tree is known by the fruit it bears. One child being a problem is one thing, two out of five seems like poor parenting. If you can't run a family you have no business running a country. If you are a christian you will realize this is a biblical standard for picking someone to lead in a church as well...

torchbearer
10-18-2008, 08:47 AM
A tree is known by the fruit it bears. One child being a problem is one thing, two out of five seems like poor parenting. If you can't run a family you have no business running a country. If you are a christian you will realize this is a biblical standard for picking someone to lead in a church as well...

Around here, its always the preacher's child that is the wildest... why is that?

Real_CaGeD
10-18-2008, 08:48 AM
Bush laid the framework for the most power the executive branch ever had. Obama promises to create jobs the way FDR did, 'public works' for energy since there are very few real jobs left here.

I hope that we can make it 4 years without becoming a National Socialist country with a strong military. He has said he wants to change the world...


I think you have the Idea.

The neocons nationalized us, made us wave the flag and become everything we have ever fought against as a Nation. Pre-emptive strike, torture, and empire is the enemy.

As Larry McDonald said, it is a one world SOCIALIST government they are creating.

National Socialism.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3100752722910819372

Listen to Mr. McDonald. This is the most important video in existence today.

"dissolving of sovereignty , transfer of wealth, and the steady move to the left"

moostraks
10-18-2008, 08:52 AM
Around here, its always the preacher's child that is the wildest... why is that?

Possibly peer pressure to refute the stigmatism of being expected to be super human?? You will see this in full force in public school when there is a push to be one of the crowd.

pacelli
10-18-2008, 10:00 AM
We do not even have the machine tools to make field artillery.



You obviously know nothing about the militia movement.

ihsv
10-18-2008, 10:17 AM
Socialism will never be fully implemented in America...

Socialism/Communism/Marxism are not identical, but are variations of the same theme. I would point out that every single one of the ten planks of Karl Marx's "Communist Manifesto" have been implemented here in the United States.

ihsv
10-18-2008, 10:21 AM
And if Obama seriously attempts any kind of takeover (communist or otherwise) of this country, then its not just a revolution, we'll have a civil war on our hands for certain.

Dude, where have you been the last eight years? Junior Bush has done more for the Commie-cause than even Marx could have hoped for. We are already a Socialist nation, complements of the present administration. Obama will simply put icing on the cake.

Jeremy
10-18-2008, 10:33 AM
Incoming liberal super majority spells the end of America I am afraid. I love the way FOX, Rush, and Hannity "the great american" led the people right to socialism.

It is a sad time.

I am afraid that liberty is lost. The people will not stand.

After they become the status quo, we will be able to grow in numbers.

MelissaCato
10-18-2008, 10:35 AM
First option is to get everyone in America to vote Baldwin to save this Country in this election. Then the 2012 Election will be the home run.

JMO.

The Constitution gives us a second option ya know, if all else fails.

I think the Constitution Party and Baldwin need us more than you think.

Jeremy
10-18-2008, 10:36 AM
First option is to get everyone in America to vote Baldwin to save this Country in this election. Then the 2012 Election will be the home run.

JMO.

The Constitution gives us a second option ya know, if all else fails.

I think the Constitution Party and Baldwin need us more than you think.

We aren't here for any party pal. We are here for America and our futures. Parties are simply tools we can use.

MelissaCato
10-18-2008, 10:40 AM
We aren't here for any party pal. We are here for America and our futures. Parties are simply tools we can use.

Hummmm, maybe bad choice of a word on my part, I'm sorry pal.

AJ Antimony
10-18-2008, 11:34 AM
Alaska wants secession. Sarah Palin supports secession. Stop reading the Huffington post and daily kooks and you might be able to think clearly. Sarah Palin is a good christian family woman...she is a frontieer woman. Shame on all of you who live and breathe those communist rags. tones

Sorry, but I just can't support someone who was HAND PICKED BY A NEOCON to be vice president. If the neocons hand pick someone to sit a heartbeat away from an aged President, why would they pick someone with libertarian views? They wouldn't. That's why they hand picked a neocon in case President neocon dies in office.

Common sense, not Huffington Post.

mediahasyou
10-18-2008, 12:16 PM
Time for secession. This country is culturally divided. The borders should reflect that.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/09/map.past.elections/index.html

Kludge
10-18-2008, 12:28 PM
Dude, where have you been the last eight years? Junior Bush has done more for the Commie-cause than even Marx could have hoped for. We are already a Socialist nation, complements of the present administration. Obama will simply put icing on the cake.

+1.

It was during Rand's time that socialism was becoming a serious threat, which she desperately tried to curb and mentioned in the foreword of "We The Living" (worst of her books, IMO). It has now taken over. We are in serious danger of moving toward Communism. This is all while Social Liberals (slowly becoming the minority to Communists) refuse to take their true name -- Socialists! Of course, in a Leninist manner, the Neoconservatives are purging and attacking the conservatives remaining in the GOP. We are quickly running out of time to use the soapbox until it is burned instead of merely moved out of most persons' earshot.

We subsidize failure, we squelch dissent, and we crush success.

It's shameful to be a part of a country arrogantly, ignorantly and stupidly throwing away what made the States so great.

Minuteman2008
10-18-2008, 12:32 PM
Socialism will never be fully implemented in America, I don't see why you guys are getting so worried. In fact, probably none of Obama's policies will get put in for many reasons. Just look forward... I've said it before, Obama winning will be helpful to our cause much, much more than McCain winning.


I think you're right. I also believe Obama winning is much better for the conservative movement in the long run. The Democrats won't risk passing some of the very worst legislation without political cover, which the Democratic congress would have gotten with McCain in the white house. And McCain, being the "maverick" that he is, would happily have stabbed this nation in the heart on a whole host of issues, especially immigration and further foreign entanglements. McCain will be made a scapegoat for conservatives. I'm sick of Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and so many other pundits acting like Obama winning is scary. They're right, it is scary, but McCain winning is even scarier. That man has stuck his knife in the back of conservatives countless times and they keep coming back for more. Why? I hope McCain loses badly (I'm voting for Chuck Baldwin, though, not Obama).

MsDoodahs
10-18-2008, 12:39 PM
An OLD WSJ article for your reading pleasure...

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010045

DEMOGRAPHY IS DESTINY

The Realignment of America

The native-born are leaving "hip" cities for the heartland. by MICHAEL BARONE
Tuesday, May 8, 2007 12:01 A.M. EDT

In 1950, when I was in kindergarten in Detroit, the city had a population of (rounded off) 1,850,000. Today the latest census estimate for Detroit is 886,000, less than half as many. In 1950, the population of the U.S. was 150 million. Today the latest census estimate for the nation is 301 million, more than twice as many. People in America move around. But not just randomly.

It has become a commonplace to say that population has been flowing from the Snow Belt to the Sun Belt, from an industrially ailing East and Midwest to an economically vibrant West and South. But the actual picture of recent growth, as measured by the 2000 Census and the census estimates for 2006, is more complicated. Recently I looked at the census estimates for 50 metropolitan areas with more than one million people in 2006, where 54% of Americans live. (I cheated a bit on definitions, adding Durham to Raleigh and combining San Francisco and San Jose.) What I found is that you can separate them into four different categories, with different degrees and different sources of population growth or decline. And I found some interesting surprises.

Start with the Coastal Megalopolises: New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Chicago (on the coast of Lake Michigan), Miami, Washington and Boston. Here is a pattern you don't find in other big cities: Americans moving out and immigrants moving in, in very large numbers, with low overall population growth. Los Angeles, defined by the Census Bureau as Los Angeles and Orange Counties, had a domestic outflow of 6% of 2000 population in six years--balanced by an immigrant inflow of 6%. The numbers are the same for these eight metro areas as a whole.

There are some variations. New York had a domestic outflow of 8% and an immigrant inflow of 6%; San Francisco a whopping domestic outflow of 10% (the bursting of the tech bubble hurt) and an immigrant inflow of 7%. Miami and Washington had domestic outflows of only 2%, overshadowed by immigrant inflows of 8% and 5%, respectively.

This is something few would have predicted 20 years ago. Americans are now moving out of, not into, coastal California and South Florida, and in very large numbers they're moving out of our largest metro areas. They're fleeing hip Boston and San Francisco, and after eight decades of moving to Washington they're moving out. The domestic outflow from these metro areas is 3.9 million people, 650,000 a year. High housing costs, high taxes, a distaste in some cases for the burgeoning immigrant populations--these are driving many Americans elsewhere.

The result is that these Coastal Megalopolises are increasingly a two-tiered society, with large affluent populations happily contemplating (at least until recently) their rapidly rising housing values, and a large, mostly immigrant working class working at low wages and struggling to move up the economic ladder. The economic divide in New York and Los Angeles is starting to look like the economic divide in Mexico City and São Paulo.


Democratic politicians like to decry what they describe as a widening economic gap in the nation. But the part of the nation where it is widening most visibly is their home turf, the place where they win their biggest margins (these metro areas voted 61% for John Kerry) and where, in exquisitely decorated Park Avenue apartments and Beverly Hills mansions with immigrant servants passing the hors d'oeuvres, they raise most of their money.
The bad news for them is that the Coastal Megalopolises grew only 4% in 2000-06, while the nation grew 6%. Coastal Megalopolitan states--New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois--are projected to lose five House seats in the 2010 Census, while California, which has gained seats in every census since it was admitted to the Union in 1850, is projected to pick up none.

You see an entirely different picture in the 16 metro areas I call the Interior Boomtowns (none touches the Atlantic or Pacific coasts). Their population has grown 18% in six years. They've had considerable immigrant inflow, 4%, but with the exceptions of Dallas and Houston, this immigrant inflow has been dwarfed by a much larger domestic inflow--three million to 1.5 million overall.

Domestic inflow has been a whopping 19% in Las Vegas, 15% in the Inland Empire (California's Riverside and San Bernardino Counties, where much of the outflow from Los Angeles has gone), 13% in Orlando and Charlotte, 12% in Phoenix, 10% in Tampa, 9% in Jacksonville. Domestic inflow was over 200,000 in the Inland Empire, Phoenix, Atlanta, Las Vegas and Orlando. These are economic dynamos that are driving much of America's growth. There's much less economic polarization here than in the Coastal Megalopolises, and a higher percentage of traditional families: Natural increase (the excess of births over deaths) in the Interior Boomtowns is 6%, well above the 4% in the Coastal Megalopolises.

The nation's center of gravity is shifting: Dallas is now larger than San Francisco, Houston is now larger than Detroit, Atlanta is now larger than Boston, Charlotte is now larger than Milwaukee. State capitals that were just medium-sized cities dominated by government employees in the 1950s--Sacramento, Austin, Raleigh, Nashville, Richmond--are now booming centers of high-tech and other growing private-sector businesses. San Antonio has more domestic than immigrant inflow even though the border is only three hours' drive away. The Interior Boomtowns generated 38% of the nation's population growth in 2000-06.





This is another political world from the Coastal Megalopolises: the Interior Boomtowns voted 56% for George W. Bush in 2004. Texas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia and Nevada--states dominated by Interior Boomtowns--are projected to pick up 10 House seats in the 2010 Census.
What about the old Rust Belt, which suffered so in the 1980s? The six metro areas here--Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Rochester--have lost population since 2000. Their domestic outflow of 4% has been only partially offset by an immigrant inflow of 1%. If the outflow seems smaller than in the 1980s, it's because so many young people have already left. Natural increase is only 2%, lower than in Orlando or Jacksonville in supposedly elderly Florida. Their economies are ailing, more of a drag on, than an engine for, the nation. They're not the source of dynamism they were 80 or 100 years ago. They continue to vote Democratic, but their 54% for John Kerry was much lower than the Coastal Megalopolis's 61%. Their states are projected to lose six House seats in the 2010 Census.

The fourth category is what I call the Static Cities. These are 18 metropolitan areas with immigrant inflow between zero and 4%, with domestic inflow up to 3% and domestic outflow no higher than 1%. They seem to be holding their own economically, but are not surging ahead and some are in danger of falling back. Philadelphia makes the list, and so do Baltimore, Hartford and Providence in the East.

Surprisingly, some Western cities that boomed in the 1990s are in this category too: Seattle (the tech bust again), Denver, Portland. In the Midwest, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Columbus and Indianapolis are doing better than their Rust Belt neighbors and make the list. In the South, Norfolk, Memphis, Louisville, Oklahoma City and Birmingham are lagging enough behind the Interior Boomtowns to do so. Overall the Static Cities had a domestic inflow of just 18,000 people (.048%) and an immigrant inflow of 2%. Politically, they're a mixed bag, a bit more Democratic than the nation as a whole: 52% for Kerry, 47% for Bush.

I have left two atypical metro areas out, because they stand alone. One is New Orleans, with a 25% domestic outflow; it was already losing population and attracting almost no immigrants before Katrina. The other is Salt Lake City, which demographically looks a lot like the America of the 1950s. In 2000-2006 its population grew a robust 10%. But it had a domestic outflow of 4% (young Mormons going off on their missions?), balanced by an immigrant inflow of 4%. The chief driver of population growth there is kids: Salt Lake City's natural increase was 9%, the largest of any of our metro areas, hugely greater than San Francisco's 3% or Pittsburgh's minus 1%. Politically, New Orleans was split down the middle in 2004, with Bush leading 50% to 49%, while Salt Lake City, the least Republican part of Utah, was still 60% for Bush.

What of the rest of the nation? You can find a few smaller metro areas that look like the Coastal Megalopolises (Santa Barbara, university towns like Iowa City), many that resemble the Interior Boomtowns (Fort Myers, Tucson) and the Rust Belt (Canton, Muncie). You can find rural counties that are losing population (as are most counties in North Dakota) and, even amid them, towns that have solid growth (Fargo, Bismarck).

But overall the nation beyond these 49 metro areas looks like the Static Cities: 1% domestic inflow, 1% immigrant inflow, 4% population growth. But politically it is more Republican, taking in as it does large swathes of the South, Great Plains and Rocky Mountains, and in line with the historical record of non-metropolitan areas being less Democratic than metro areas: 56% for Bush, 42% for Kerry.

Twenty years ago political analysts grasped the implications of the vast movement from Rust Belt to Sun Belt, a tilting of the table on balance toward Republicans; but with California leaning heavily to Democrats, that paradigm seems obsolete. What's now in store is a shifting of political weight from a small Rust Belt which leans Democratic and from the much larger Coastal Megalopolises, where both secular top earners and immigrant low earners vote heavily Democratic, toward the Interior Megalopolises, where most voters are private-sector religious Republicans but where significant immigrant populations lean to the Democrats. House seats and electoral votes will shift from New York, New Jersey and Illinois to Texas, Florida, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada; within California, House seats will shift from the Democratic coast to the Republican Inland Empire and Central Valley.
Demography is destiny. When I was in kindergarten in 1950, Detroit was the nation's fifth largest metro area, with 3,170,000 people. Now it ranks 11th and is soon to be overtaken by Phoenix, which had 331,000 people in 1950. In the close 1960 election, in which electoral votes were based on the 1950 Census, Michigan cast 20 votes for John Kennedy and Arizona cast four votes for Richard Nixon; New York cast 45 votes for Kennedy and Florida cast 10 votes for Nixon. In 2012, Michigan will likely have 16 electoral votes and Arizona 12; New York will have 29 votes and Florida 29. That's the kind of political change demographics makes over the years.

MsDoodahs
10-18-2008, 12:46 PM
"Coastal Megalopolitan states--New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois--are projected to lose five House seats in the 2010 Census, while California, which has gained seats in every census since it was admitted to the Union in 1850, is projected to pick up none."

"Texas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia and Nevada--states dominated by Interior Boomtowns--are projected to pick up 10 House seats in the 2010 Census."

"Demography is destiny. When I was in kindergarten in 1950, Detroit was the nation's fifth largest metro area, with 3,170,000 people. Now it ranks 11th and is soon to be overtaken by Phoenix, which had 331,000 people in 1950. In the close 1960 election, in which electoral votes were based on the 1950 Census, Michigan cast 20 votes for John Kennedy and Arizona cast four votes for Richard Nixon; New York cast 45 votes for Kennedy and Florida cast 10 votes for Nixon. In 2012, Michigan will likely have 16 electoral votes and Arizona 12; New York will have 29 votes and Florida 29. That's the kind of political change demographics makes over the years."

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

Truth Warrior
10-18-2008, 12:59 PM
And then the 80 MILLION Boomers retire. :D

AZ Libertarian
10-18-2008, 01:44 PM
Socialism will never be fully implemented in America, I don't see why you guys are getting so worried. In fact, probably none of Obama's policies will get put in for many reasons. Just look forward... I've said it before, Obama winning will be helpful to our cause much, much more than McCain winning.

Ignorance such as this does NOT belong on this forum.

ItsTime
10-18-2008, 01:51 PM
Take control of the moment! An Obama win will leave A LOT of Republicans pissed.

Lets get the C4L on the air for all of Nov all over the country!
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=163697

MsDoodahs
10-18-2008, 01:56 PM
Time, do you think we should focus on the 'interior boomtown" states?

Zera
10-18-2008, 02:38 PM
Ignorance such as this does NOT belong on this forum.

Go die dumbass.

nodope0695
10-18-2008, 02:43 PM
Naw, it ain't over by a long-shot. Remember, we're still an ARMED public. Violence is yet to come, and it will come.

tonesforjonesbones
10-18-2008, 03:09 PM
Zera is clearly a communist obama bot. tones

MelissaCato
10-18-2008, 03:18 PM
Naw, it ain't over by a long-shot. Remember, we're still an ARMED public. Violence is yet to come, and it will come.

I dunno, but I do know my area of Pennsylvania would be prime to advertise someone other than McCain or Obama right about now.

I agree. This election isn't over yet ... Ron Paul used the word Constitution in almost every chance in air time. I honestly think we should promote Baldwin and the Constitution Party from now till Nov 4 ... as a last hope to take the votes away from McCain and Obama. Maybe even flip the Election.

Ron Paul was the only Candidate that even mentioned the Constitution, the only one who mentions it in the news now ... I think we should use it to our advantage. Every newbie who listens to Ron Paul speak on MSM .. auto remembers Constitution. I've noticed this talking to people lately.

I'm confused with the C4L ... who exactly are we promoting ... because Ron Paul endorsed Baldwin as his alliance for 2008 POTUS which is the Constitution Party Candidate. I'm unaware of anyone else other than BJ Lawson.

Can someone help me understand this please. Thanks.

tonesforjonesbones
10-18-2008, 03:29 PM
Evidently C$L is not going to endorse Ron Paul type candidates or give them money...I thought that was the mission of it...but apparently not. I don't know what their mission is these days. tones

Theocrat
10-18-2008, 03:33 PM
Incoming liberal super majority spells the end of America I am afraid. I love the way FOX, Rush, and Hannity "the great american" led the people right to socialism.

It is a sad time.

I am afraid that liberty is lost. The people will not stand.

Give up, and move to Switzerland?