If I lived in a swing state, I'd vote for McCain.

[AggieforPaul]

I'm writing in Chuck Baldwin since I know Texas is going red, But if I lived in say Florida, I'd have to vote for McCain.

I don't like McWar one bit. But I've always wondered what it would be like to live under the rule of Karl Marx, and I always hoped I'd never have to find out. Spreading the wealth, denying emergency care to babies who survive abortions, signing every bullshit bill the Democratic Congress puts on his desk, appointing Supreme Court justices that agree with Roe v Wade, spending this country into oblivion.

I know people hate the "lesser of the 2 evils" argument, but consider this. If a liberty candidate is ever going to restore the Republic, there has to be something left to restore in the first place. After 8 years of socialism, there may be no America left to save.

[Andrew-Austin]

Good timing.

I disagree with your pespective theory, but thanks anyways for your opinion.

[Bruno]

I'm writing in Chuck Baldwin since I know Texas is going red, But if I lived in say Florida, I'd have to vote for McCain.

I don't like McWar one bit. But I've always wondered what it would be like to live under the rule of Karl Marx, and I always hoped I'd never have to find out. Spreading the wealth, denying emergency care to babies who survive abortions, signing every bullshit bill the Democratic Congress puts on his desk, appointing Supreme Court justices that agree with Roe v Wade, spending this country into oblivion.

I know people hate the "lesser of the 2 evils" argument, but consider this. If a liberty candidate is ever going to restore the Republic, there has to be something left to restore in the first place. After 8 years of socialism, there may be no America left to save.

It may take only four years of socialism for the rest of America to rise up and demand "fundamental change"

[AggieforPaul]

It may take only four years of socialism for the rest of America to rise up and demand "fundamental change"

It seems like the worse things get, the MORE socialism people want. I dont think we can win this fight by hoping we hit rock bottom and people demand a return to the Constitution. Right now, not enough people understand the concepts of freedom and liberty. Until the majority understands those concepts, it won't matter what position the country is in.

[georgiaboy]

we've just witnessed what a single party control of legislative and executive looks like during these last several Republican years. Look what we got. Loads of socialistic programs heaped on us.

McCain just voted for the largest bailout in history. Who says with a D-Congress he'll be any worse than Obama?

End the insanity. Vote third party.

[B964]

I would have to agree. Name one country that was able to come back from socialism with out a MAJOR struggle. Like Ron Paul said if you subsidize something you get more of it. Once we start down the socialist road we will not recover in our or our childrens lifetime. This is an election to decide if we are to be Americans or not.

[Bruno]

I would have to agree. Name one country that was able to come back from socialism with out a MAJOR struggle. Like Ron Paul said if you subsidize something you get more of it. Once we start down the socialist road we will not recover in our or our childrens lifetime. This is an election to decide if we are to be Americans or not.


I hope that is not the case. Because Obama is going to win this election whether we like it or not.
If the Republicans had brought forth a better candidate, then things might be different.

Ron Paul could be uniting this country right now instead of Obama doing it.

[Andrew-Austin]

It seems like the worse things get, the MORE socialism people want. I dont think we can win this fight by hoping we hit rock bottom and people demand a return to the Constitution. Right now, not enough people understand the concepts of freedom and liberty. Until the majority understands those concepts, it won't matter what position the country is in.

That only applies to some people, overall most Americans will become increasingly distraught with the entire government. You can't delay economic collapse by voting for McCain unfortunately, and there won't be enough time to "fully educate" the bulk of America.

So many people on this board seem to be able to see the future.

Whats sad is your not even going to vote for McCain youself, you just want the people in swing states to do the dirty work for you.

[graddium]

If a liberty candidate is ever going to restore the Republic...

It's a pipe dream to think that any political candidate can restore anything from its current state. I say let the behemoth crush itself, and the faster the better. If I voted, I'd probably vote for Obama to bring about the collapse faster, but then again, McWar and his itchy trigger finger might bring it about faster than Obama's policies.

There are way better places to put time and energy than into pipe dream politics.

[slacker921]

I'm in NC - which normally is not a swing state but is this year. There's no way I'd vote for either Obama or McCain. If Barr was not on the ballot (the only 3rd party on the NC ballot) I would just vote for the local candidates and not vote for the presidential race.

As a Republican who was at the NC GOP convention and saw the level of denial that exists at the upper level of the party I can say the only way to get them to realize that the neoconservative path is wrong is for McCain to lose and replace them. Their platform was responsible for many lost seats in 2006 and will likely lose even more in 2008. When that happens it will be much easier to dismiss them.

Another thing to consider is what has happened over the last 8 years. We do not live in the same country that existed 10 years ago. The America that you want to protect - is gone. Our Republican President has shown us time and again that the constitution is no longer a factor in determining how our government operates and more importantly the vast majority of Republicans in Congress and the Republican governors support him in his efforts to destroy our country.

[slothman]

But if I lived in say Florida, I'd have to vote for McCain.

I don't like McWar one bit. But I've always wondered what it would be like to live under the rule of Karl Marx,


I don't like him either so I won't vote for him.
I guess that means you would rather him, appearently bad, than Obama.

I wonder what it would be like to live under Marx.
You might get some of that under Lenin but Stalin, and the rest, didn't live under Marx. That lived under a "evil" form of Marx

P.S. I live in NY, also not a swing state.

[AggieforPaul]

That only applies to some people, overall most Americans will become increasingly distraught with the entire government. You can't delay economic collapse by voting for McCain unfortunately, and there won't be enough time to "fully educate" the bulk of America.

So many people on this board seem to be able to see the future.

Whats sad is your not even going to vote for McCain youself, you just want the people in swing states to do the dirty work for you.

Well Im comfortable making a "statement vote" because I know it wont affect the electoral count. But if I could contribute to keeping Obama out of the white house, I would.

[RickyJ]

They both suck and it matters not which one wins. Why? Because they both work for the same people and do as they are told to do. We lose with either one. Obama won't do even half of the stuff he said he was going to do if he wins, the same with McCain. They only say things that their parties want to hear so this farce of an election will appear real. Everything has been decided ahead of time. The elite leave nothing to chance.

[satchelmcqueen]

Vote Paul with the middle finger, or Baldwin for the sake of a vote that "might" count. Im gonna say fuck you with Ron Paul myself.

[Brassmouth]

It seems like the worse things get, the MORE socialism people want. I dont think we can win this fight by hoping we hit rock bottom and people demand a return to the Constitution. Right now, not enough people understand the concepts of freedom and liberty. Until the majority understands those concepts, it won't matter what position the country is in.

QFT. The people of Europe are drowning in socialism, but do you see them rising up? Psh. No! They're just begging for their next handout and running around completely delusional. They don't even realize they're all wards of the state. That'll be America after 8 years of Obama.

I agree with the OP. Voting for the lesser of two evils is terrible, BUT as similar as McCain and Obama are, I'd have to say that at least McCain isn't talking about spreading the wealth around. IMO, McCain's an idiot, but Obama is an intentional, hard-and-fast Marxist.

(Before everyone grabs their pitchforks and labels me a McCain supporter, I will disclose that I will be voting for Barr, and do not support/endorse McCain in any way.:cool:)

[tonesforjonesbones]

THANK GOD there are still some voices of reason on this forum. I agree...the USA will NOT stand under 8 years of the communist party. I'd like to know what socialist programs Bush implimented? The communist democrats filibustered every domestic program he tried to put forth...the only thing they voted with him for is the damn war. TONES (don't you find that amusing? your communist party was happy to agree to fund the wars)

[Brassmouth]

THANK GOD there are still some voices of reason on this forum. I agree...the USA will NOT stand under 8 years of the communist party. I'd like to know what socialist programs Bush implimented? The communist democrats filibustered every domestic program he tried to put forth...the only thing they voted with him for is the damn war. TONES (don't you find that amusing? your communist party was happy to agree to fund the wars)

Bush created the Department of Homeland Security, did he not? And the Republicans are equally as guilty of expanding government as the Democrats are.

[cheapseats]

They both suck and it matters not which one wins.

You know the prelude, 'all things being equal'?

Things are almost NEVER equal.



Why? Because they both work for the same people and do as they are told to do. We lose with either one. Obama won't do even half of the stuff he said he was going to do if he wins, the same with McCain. They only say things that their parties want to hear so this farce of an election will appear real.

Agreed.

Neither will be able to do even half the stuff they promise...THANK GOD.

But particularly with a rubber stamp Congress, Obama will increase the welfare/wealth distribution aspect of American society. He will. Even if it's only half, even if it's a constant overcoming of filibusters, he WILL take it the 21st century equivalent of the radicalism that was OBVIOUSLY the input and influence of his formative years. It's in HIS blood, like war is in John McCain's blood.

Elitism is also in John McCain's blood. He will reinforce disproportionate advantage to the wealthiest Few...he, more like he and Cindy, is ONE of them. But there's only so much further we can go in that direction without resorting to a draft and indentured servitude. Even Americans will eventually arise, as with Viet Nam.

The country has no stomach for more war. There are PLENTY of people with an appetite for more government handouts.

Setting aside what is to me the very real possibility that Barack Obama isn't a Good Guy at all...which is a pretty big aside...it seems to me that Barack Obama could conceivably do more or quite a bit more damage.




Everything has been decided ahead of time.

Orchestration, not decision.

Everything has been analyzed and discussed and considered and pursued. There are plots and plans...short-term, mid-range, long-term. Hands are shook, favors are done, agreements are made, so are investments...on and on.

But unless one is a true Fatalist...in which case, there is no point arguing anything...the decision is not made in advance. They would LIKE to decide in advance. Total control would suit them fine and dandy.

But people are the Wild Card. That's why labor-intensive businesses are such a headache.




The elite leave nothing to chance.

Plan B, Plan C, Plan D, E, F. But shit happens.

They're in The Shit now. Good thing we were there to break their fall. ;)

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

The USA will not stand under four or eight years of the McCommunist party either.

Oh, and uh, "No Child Left Behind" not socialist enough for you?

[tonesforjonesbones]

Homeland security is crap...but it's not a social program. Bush spent money on the stupid wars...not on expanding the government ..at least not on welfare programs. tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

oh well...the entire education program is socialist. tones

[Brassmouth]

oh well...the entire education program is socialist. tones

Agreed. That's our biggest obstacle.

[cheapseats]

QFT. The people of Europe are drowning in socialism, but do you see them rising up? Psh. No! They're just begging for their next handout and running around completely delusional. They don't even realize they're all wards of the state. That'll be America after 8 years of Obama.



...The CCTV User Group says one study has put the number of cameras across the United Kingdom at seven million. The country's enthusiasm with CCTV can be seen in Croydon, a suburb south of London, where 331,000 residents are watched by 500 cameras with zoom lenses...

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB112077340647880052-cKyZgAb0T3asU4UDFVNPWrOAqCY_20060708.html

[ronpaulhawaii]

Bill Clinton is a socialist, Bush is a socialist, Obama is a socialist, McCain is a socialist.

Find a better argument.

On the GOPs watch the gov't has grown worse than LBJs stint. Medicare Drug Benefit, No Child left behind, Homeland Security, Nation Building. Now, gov't is getting into the banking business. Even without military and homeland security, we have witnessed the largest spending increase under any president since the Great Depression.

All on the GOPs watch...

They are all lying cretins, selling people a pack full of BS.

Now you expect me to believe McCain?, friend of Lieberman, author of McCain-Fiengold, buddy of Keating, navel disgrace and wife abandoner

GMAB

[tonesforjonesbones]

I don't like McCain...but I don't like no checks and balances...a communist supermajority means the END my friend...you watch ..if Obama wins...conservatives will be heading for the border. Tones

[libertarian4321]

Homeland security is crap...but it's not a social program. Bush spent money on the stupid wars...not on expanding the government ..at least not on welfare programs. tones

War is one of the biggest government programs there is- it entails a massive growth in government- not just in the military, but in supporting agencies and contractors.

Of course, unnecessary war is the worst. We will end up spending trillions in Iraq, and get nothing out of it but BODY BAGS filled with our dead soldiers.

You'd be hard pressed to find a more wasteful government program...

[libertarian4321]

I don't like McCain...but I don't like no checks and balances...a communist supermajority means the END my friend...you watch ..if Obama wins...conservatives will be heading for the border. Tones

If you're a Bush/McCain style "conservative", you won't be missed...

[Original_Intent]

My 11 year old said today, "Dad, can we move to New Zealand?"

This thread makes me want to say "YES!"

[ronpaulhawaii]

My 11 year old said today, "Dad, can we move to New Zealand?"

This thread makes me want to say "YES!"

Oh, it is going to get worse in the run up, we are getting inundated with desperados and other deep plants will start showing their true colors.

But NZ is not all it is cracked up to be. I livd there for two years and the level of racism and crime is mind boggling for such a peaceful looking place...

Great place to visit, wouldn't want to live there again

[EndTheFed]

THANK GOD there are still some voices of reason on this forum. I agree...the USA will NOT stand under 8 years of the communist party. I'd like to know what socialist programs Bush implimented? The communist democrats filibustered every domestic program he tried to put forth...the only thing they voted with him for is the damn war. TONES (don't you find that amusing? your communist party was happy to agree to fund the wars)

mmm as it is reported Mccain said... "A breast of fresh air"..

yes Thank God' for the few voices of reason here.

[bunklocoempire]

I'm writing in Chuck Baldwin since I know Texas is going red, But if I lived in say Florida, I'd have to vote for McCain.

I don't like McWar one bit. But I've always wondered what it would be like to live under the rule of Karl Marx, and I always hoped I'd never have to find out. Spreading the wealth, denying emergency care to babies who survive abortions, signing every bullshit bill the Democratic Congress puts on his desk, appointing Supreme Court justices that agree with Roe v Wade, spending this country into oblivion.

I know people hate the "lesser of the 2 evils" argument, but consider this. If a liberty candidate is ever going to restore the Republic, there has to be something left to restore in the first place. After 8 years of socialism, there may be no America left to save.


Concerning abortion “have to vote McCain” often comes up.

If Republicans (presidents) were at all serious about right to life we would be sick to death of their daily bully pulpit speeches on the matter.

Republican presidential candidates will mention it once when they want to get elected, and once when they leave office.

Consider this, if you donate to unwed pregnant mother homes or other right to life cause, you are going to have a smaller budget with which to do so unless both parties come clean about inflating the dollar.

It is my belief Republicans (president) will actually do more harm to right to life by crashing the economy.

More poor likely means more “sacrifices”, and you can take the word “sacrifices” in the worst possible context seeing as we live in a soft, comfortable, consumer driven nation.

More poor means more handouts, and more irresponsible behavior.

And again, more poor means less charitable contributions.

It is our responsibility to take care of our fellow man/woman, NOT governments. I have yet to see laws change more peoples behavior than actual people changing peoples behavior.

If we don’t have our time, talents and treasures to help our fellow man, don’t expect things to change for the better.

Bunkloco