I'm more confused now than Ever

[Mani]

Sorry for dropping off the face of the earth for the last 6 months. I had a project working all day all night, days and weekends for several months.

It was pretty rough, wasn't sure if it could be done, but it actually got done. Plus I was extremely upset and frustrated by the Republican party and our political system in general, and I couldn't take it anymore. Being consumed with work was actually a good distraction.

That being said I'm more undecided then ever about my vote:

I vowed a LONG time ago not to vote McCain. I actually toyed with the idea of going Obama for a while for a couple reasons:

1) Probably some angst towards conservatives for the way Ron Paul was treated, and to thumb my nose a the NEO-CONS which rule the republican party (I officially became a Republican so I could vote for RP in the primary, I've always been an independent previously).
2) The next four years are going to be bad either way, Obama will make it worse and accelerate socialism and hard times. Maybe his 4 years will make it so bad it will cause the rise of the revolution that we desperately need. We can point out SOCIALISM doesn't work.
3) Right now everyone is ripping on Republicans saying, thanks to George Bush we are in the sh*t hole we are in. I don't care about that as much people saying the principles of "Free Markets, less government" don't work. I don't want McCain to win and preach those things (and do the opposite like W does) and have a really bad 4 years and even MORE calling for socialism again justifying, "free markets don't work, more government is necessary".


That was my logic, but the more I think about Obama, the more I realize once government gets it's claws into something, it's almost impossible to get it out. So there is a risk the revolution won't ocurr and we'd just be in a worse situation with more government and even more work on our hands.

So now I'm back to voting my conscience but I'm still a bit confused:

1) Write in Ron Paul.
2) Vote Libertarian Bob Barr.
3) Vote Constitutional Party.

What of those 3 has the best impact?

1) Write in RP - Will the write-ins even be counted? And Ron Paul asked to go the 3rd party route.
2) Vote Bob Barr- I don't know much about him, and RP never endorsed him from what I saw, although he said the right things in a couple interviews I heard.
3) Vote Constitution - I saw their philosophy I'm good with it, RP seemed to give them a bit of a nod.

I'm good with both the libertarian and constitutional parties. Ron Paul of course is my true vote, but if we are trying to send a message that this 2 party system is a racket, shouldn't we give some love to a 3rd party?

So that's where I'm at right now. I'm leaning Libertarian (because after the past 1-2 years of studying RP I realized I was not an independent all this time, but rather a libertarian), but I'm not sure yet.

I will say thanks to someone's earlier thread about the Obama administration, it reaffirmed my decision not to go with a strategic "help throw us into hell hoping it causes the revolution" vote.

Any comments, suggestions? Are you writing in Paul? Or supporting the Libertarian or Constitutional party? If so, why did you choose one over the other?

[torchbearer]

If you write-in makes sure it will count, or its pointless.
Vote for the person that best represents what you want.. ie. the best candidate for you.
All three will honor the constitution... at least way more than McCain or Obama.

[Mani]

If you write-in makes sure it will count, or its pointless.
Vote for the person that best represents what you want.. ie. the best candidate for you.
All three will honor the constitution... at least way more than McCain or Obama.

We got our "sample" ballot in the mail, they do have a spot for write-ins, so I'm guessing it counts...

[torchbearer]

We got our "sample" ballot in the mail, they do have a spot for write-ins, so I'm guessing it counts...

Ask first.

[Kotin]

welcome back!

[Ben2008]

Vote McCain in order to buy time to turn the country around. Like you said, an Obama win would send us on a path of no return into true socialism.

You say you want to vote your conscience. My conscience tells me to vote for McCain, even though there are others that I agree with much more politically such as Barr and Baldwin. Voting one's conscience doesnt have to mean voting for whom one most agrees with.

[TER]

Ron paul asked not be written in and instead he is voting for Baldwin.

[moostraks]

Vote McCain in order to buy time to turn the country around. Like you said, an Obama win would send us on a path of no return into true socialism.

You say you want to vote your conscience. My conscience tells me to vote for McCain, even though there are others that I agree with much more politically such as Barr and Baldwin. Voting one's conscience doesnt have to mean voting for whom one most agrees with.

????

How is McCain not going to be equally destructive???

Voting McCain will not buy more time. It will just be a different view of destruction of a previously free society....:(

[Kotin]

????

How is McCain not going to be equally destructive???

Voting McCain will not buy more time. It will just be a different view of destruction of a previously free society....:(

bingo.

[blocks]

We got our "sample" ballot in the mail, they do have a spot for write-ins, so I'm guessing it counts...

In most states I'm certain that your write-in must be a registered write-in candidate, otherwise your vote will not be counted at all.

[Knightskye]

Ron paul asked not be written in and instead he is voting for Baldwin.

He didn't say who he was voting for. He just (angrily) endorsed Baldwin.

[georgiaboy]

McCain and Obama are both socialists. In their eyes, the federal government has a solution and a program for everything, with no limits but what they can dream up. Their policies are largely the same. With the bailout vote, no child left behind, prescription drug plan, trade agreements, military interventionism, social security, medicare, we are already well on the path of socialism.

If you're for small government, sound money, non-interventionist foreign policy, the constitution, individual freedom, you have no business voting for either McCain or Obama. It's that simple.

Vote for the third party of your choice, or stay home. I'll be voting Bob Barr.

[georgiaboy]

Voting one's conscience doesnt have to mean voting for whom one most agrees with.

This is so disgustingly twisted and wrong.

Voting one's conscience absolutely has everything to do with principled agreement, and nothing to do with what you're doing, which is voting strategically, with ulterior motives, or with political motivation.

Voting one's conscience means taking a principled stand without regard to politics or popular opinion. Look at Ron Paul's voting record. There's someone who votes his conscience in a principled way. He looks at the issue, looks at the constitution, looks to his principles, and votes.

For you to insinuate that you are voting your conscience by voting for John McCain, if your principles in no way line up with his, is just simply lying.

If your principles line up with John McCain, then be my guest.

[Ben2008]

????

How is McCain not going to be equally destructive???

Voting McCain will not buy more time. It will just be a different view of destruction of a previously free society....:(


Simply because McCain is a Republican and Congress is controlled by Democrats. The worst situation is to have both parties in control of both branches, where there is no check and balance.

Dr. Paul pointed out today the benefit of McCain over Obama winning the presidency (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_yjImzwuIU) which he said would be a "disaster."

[Ben2008]

This is so disgustingly twisted and wrong.

Voting one's conscience absolutely has everything to do with principled agreement, and nothing to do with what you're doing, which is voting strategically, with ulterior motives, or with political motivation.

Voting one's conscience means taking a principled stand without regard to politics or popular opinion. Look at Ron Paul's voting record. There's someone who votes his conscience in a principled way. He looks at the issue, looks at the constitution, looks to his principles, and votes.

For you to insinuate that you are voting your conscience by voting for John McCain, if your principles in no way line up with his, is just simply lying.

If your principles line up with John McCain, then be my guest.

Don't call me a liar.

My conscience tells me to do whatever has the best consequences for the country in the pursuit of freedom. Your conscience tells you to only vote someone if you agree with them 100%, apparently, regardless of the consequences no matter how horrific. I contend that my conscience is rational and you're isn't. My principle is rational and yours isn't. I vote on principle. It's just not your principle.

[libertarian4321]

I can understand the OP having some hesitation about Barr- I'm a Libertarian, and I really don't want to vote for the guy.

If you are comfortable with the CP platform (some of us aren't) and they are on the ballot in your state, vote for Baldwin.

[Razorback Fan]

He didn't say who he was voting for. He just (angrily) endorsed Baldwin.

You got it backwards. He said he's "supporting" Baldwin (which to me implies that he's voting for him). He did not "endorse" anybody; he has gone far out of his way not to, in fact.

[Elwar]

I have my absentee ballot coming and I'm writing in Ron Paul and then faxing a copy to my local paper.

I'm also writing in NOBAILOUT for my Congressional pick considering my candidate voted for the bailout.

I still wear my Ron Paul 2008 wristband and I just can't imagine voting for anyone else.

And I know for a fact that my write-in for Ron Paul will not "count" but in a time when the only way your vote will decide the presidency is if you wear a black robe to work I'd rather make my vote count to me.

[Number19]

Too many LP'ers rallied behind RP this year, resulting in a skewed convention. Barr is a Libertarian Party "convert", and his selection as the party's candidate was not an ideal choice IMO - his cred is not good.

But, the LP is pro-freedom, all up and down the ballot. Read our platform.

The CP's candidate, Baldwin, takes a strong "constitutional" position at the national level, but the party's platform does not take a consistant pro-freedom position, particularly, at the state level.

To be honest, neither candidate has a snow ball's chance in hell of being elected, so a vote for the candidate shows de facto support for the party.

The "true" freedom party is the LP. Swallowing hard, and casting a vote for Barr, is going to help the LP in the long term.

[RickyJ]

For what it is worth I am voting for Chuck Baldwin.

[Mani]

Thanks, that was the discussion I was looking for.

I wasn't sure where RP stood on the other parties, and what his recommendations were.

I had ruled out McCain a long time ago. I can't forget what he's done over the last year during the primaries, and he says look at his record, well when you look at his record it's not good. Doesn't anyone remember how he blew threw his campaign money like a drunken sailer with the biggest overbloated staff of all time?

One of his main campaign mantras is no pork spending, and yet he supported the biggest pork filled bill of all time (even glenn beck called him on it).

We could write threads all day long about the problems with McCain, no use in rehashing that over.

I don't think I'm going to write in Ron Paul. I don't want my vote thrown out, especially if Ron Paul doesn't even recommend it but would rather you direct that vote towards a 3rd party. It makes sense to try and give some legitimacy to the 3rd parties which are completed ignored in our current system. At least I'd like to give some measured approval to either the LP or CP.

I have both on the ballot so I can go either way.

I hope both parties CP and LP have a nice bump in their numbers this year.

[brandon]

Your vote is meaningless, no offense.

You're putting way to much thought into something as inconsequential as voting for president.

[Andrew-Austin]

Your vote is meaningless, no offense.

You're putting way to much thought into something as inconsequential as voting for president.

Its only meaningless because millions of Americans won't put nearly as much thought into their vote as he is.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Your vote is meaningless, no offense.

You're putting way to much thought into something as inconsequential as voting for president.

I don't think a vote is meaningless and people who put little thought into it are part of the problem. I commend Mani for coming back to start this discussion. I am going to vote 3rd Party to try to get above the 5% threshold.

Why do you think a vote is meaningless?

[georgiaboy]

Don't call me a liar.

My conscience tells me to do whatever has the best consequences for the country in the pursuit of freedom. Your conscience tells you to only vote someone if you agree with them 100%, apparently, regardless of the consequences no matter how horrific. I contend that my conscience is rational and you're isn't. My principle is rational and yours isn't. I vote on principle. It's just not your principle.

Ah, gotcha, it depends on what your definition of "is" is.:rolleyes:

[georgiaboy]

Thanks, that was the discussion I was looking for.

I wasn't sure where RP stood on the other parties, and what his recommendations were.

I had ruled out McCain a long time ago. I can't forget what he's done over the last year during the primaries, and he says look at his record, well when you look at his record it's not good. Doesn't anyone remember how he blew threw his campaign money like a drunken sailer with the biggest overbloated staff of all time?

One of his main campaign mantras is no pork spending, and yet he supported the biggest pork filled bill of all time (even glenn beck called him on it).

We could write threads all day long about the problems with McCain, no use in rehashing that over.

I don't think I'm going to write in Ron Paul. I don't want my vote thrown out, especially if Ron Paul doesn't even recommend it but would rather you direct that vote towards a 3rd party. It makes sense to try and give some legitimacy to the 3rd parties which are completed ignored in our current system. At least I'd like to give some measured approval to either the LP or CP.

I have both on the ballot so I can go either way.

I hope both parties CP and LP have a nice bump in their numbers this year.

cool.

[brandon]

Why do you think a vote is meaningless?

Because our democratic republic is an illusion meant to pacify the people.

As soon as a presidential candidate that wont submit to being a puppet of the banking cartel starts to get support, TPTB unleash everything they have against that candidate assuring he or she has no chance to win.


I do think a vote on the local level still has significance. But voting for president doesn't

[Truth Warrior]

How Can You Think Voting Matters? (http://www.lewrockwell.com/alston/alston50.html)
Actually, it does, says Wilt Alston, just not in the way you think.

[Oyate]

sorry for dropping off the face of the earth

ha! As if. Sorry ain't good enough. Not even close. If, and only if you bring me flowers and ice cream, maybe, just maybe i will forgive you.

As to confusion, welcome to the club.