5 civilians gunned down by the military in Boston...

[AbolishTheGovt]

...was all it took for the first American Revolution to break out.

After our veterans were trampled by horseback police last night outside the debate, we should understand that the government and its goons are putting themselves in a precarious position. The biggest difference between what happened in Boston 238 years ago and what happened in Long Island last night was that those five who were killed in Boston actually attacked the British military first, while our vets that were demonstrating last night were doing so in a completely civil and peaceful manner before the cops initiated physical violence against them.

The day may soon come when our cops and military kill a handful of peaceful protestors and demonstrators.

Will we then have the courage that our forefathers had to stand up and say "enough is enough"?

[DJ24966]

Doubtful many will stand up. I'm sure the news media will report a different story, making it look like the protesters were the ones causing issues.

[constituent]

the answer is simple:

kent state



now, the real question, is not so easy.

if people rise up, what good will it do?

[ItsTime]

Doubtful many will stand up. I'm sure the news media will report a different story, making it look like the protesters were the ones causing issues.

MSM is the best crowd control

[MsDoodahs]

"The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre or Kent State massacre,[2][3][4] occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. Four students were killed and nine others were wounded, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]

Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. However, other students who were shot had merely been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.[6][7]

There was a significant national response to the shootings: hundreds of universities, colleges, and high schools closed throughout the United States due to a student strike of eight million students, and the event further divided the country, at this already socially contentious time, along political lines."

Wiki for Kent State Shootings.

Unfortunately, it will take WAY WAY more than what happened to the vets last night before anywhere close to a 'majority' wake up in this nation.

[MsDoodahs]

the answer is simple:

kent state



now, the real question, is not so easy.

if people rise up, what good will it do?

Okay, you posted that while I was pulling the wiki for Kent State Shootings.

[Mini-Me]

Your thread subject made my jaw drop. I was like, "BOSTON AGAIN?!?!? That's exactly what sparked the Revolution!" Don't do that again. :eek:

[AbolishTheGovt]

the answer is simple:

kent state



now, the real question, is not so easy.

if people rise up, what good will it do?

First answer this: If people stay seated, what good will it do?

[ItsTime]

Your thread subject made my jaw drop. I was like, "BOSTON AGAIN?!?!? That's exactly what sparked the Revolution!" Don't do that again. :eek:

I was half way to the phone... :eek:

[Crowish]

the answer is simple:

kent state



now, the real question, is not so easy.

if people rise up, what good will it do?


And the not-so-much-reported Orangeburg Massacre.

And the Nat'l Guard in Detroit.

And ...

[AbolishTheGovt]

And the not-so-much-reported Orangeburg Massacre.

And the Nat'l Guard in Detroit.

And ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_State_killings

[MsDoodahs]

AtG, you asked what good it will do if people stay seated.

What good did it do when people stood up?

<sigh>

We are SOOO screwed.

[AbolishTheGovt]

AtG, you asked what good it will do if people stay seated.

What good did it do when people stood up?

<sigh>

We are SOOO screwed.

The last time We truly stood up?

We gained our independence.

[MsDoodahs]

Americans will take a LOT more shit before they get pissed.

[AbolishTheGovt]

Americans will take a LOT more shit before they get pissed.

I know it. It makes my blood boil.

[-lotus-]

most people would never dream of taking up arms in a revolution until the riots are right outside their doors and their roofs are on fire ;(

[torchbearer]

I think organization and finding like minded people could accelerate a revolution.
Like say the internet... and a forum of people.

Before web 2.0 and this ron paul revolution.
I thought I was alone.
If the government was bloodying up vets, I would feel helpless to do anything.. and thus, wouldn't do anything.
But if you can organize with like minded people, and you realize, you are not alone. You are more likely to take action.

[AbolishTheGovt]

I think organization and finding like minded people could accelerate a revolution.
Like say the internet... and a forum of people.

Before web 2.0 and this ron paul revolution.
I thought I was alone.
If the government was bloodying up vets, I would feel helpless to do anything.. and thus, wouldn't do anything.
But if you can organize with like minded people, and you realize, you are not alone. You are more likely to take action.

So we just have to wait until America turns into Stalin's Russia before Americans will rise up?

[torchbearer]

So we just have to wait until America turns into Stalin's Russia before Americans will rise up?

No- it only takes you and me... and a few others to decide to act now.
keep it to private messages though.

http://www.pjjune.net/history/newyork/lex.gif

[AbolishTheGovt]

No- it only takes you and me... and a few others to decide to act now.
keep it to private messages though.

http://www.pjjune.net/history/newyork/lex.gif

Ha ha, I can imagine the red flags going up on this post over at the NSA. :)

Do you think even our RPF private messages would be secure from government surveillance...?

[torchbearer]

Ha ha, I can imagine the red flags going up on this post over at the NSA. :)

Do you think even our RPF private messages would be secure from government surveillance...?

depends on who owns the server.

[AbolishTheGovt]

depends on who owns the server.

Would the government care?

Even that kid who guessed Sarah Palin's email password and got into her inbox was using a sophisticated internet anonymity service, and it took the government all of a few weeks to locate, arrest, and indict him...

[torchbearer]

Would the government care?

Even that kid who guessed Sarah Palin's email password and got into her inbox was using a sophisticated internet anonymity service, and it took the government all of a few weeks to locate, arrest, and indict him...

Any federal officer who intends to enter my home needs to ask himself.
Is it worth his life to enforce his master's will?
Is he willing to risk having a life-ending day at work... or will he just go home.
I have made peace with the fact that my death certificate will read "suicide by cop".

[Mortikhi]

I would hope it would take alot more than some people passing emails back and forth about organizing, but who knows nowadays.

I'd still participate in that organization =)

[torchbearer]

I would hope it would take alot more than some people passing emails back and forth about organizing, but who knows nowadays.

I'd still participate in that organization =)

This looks like a good solution to communication.
http://www.pgp.com/downloads/desktoptrial/desktoptrial2.html

[Mini-Me]

depends on who owns the server.

This isn't the whole story, though. Keep in mind that your ISP is most likely compromised anyway, and all private messages are completely unencrypted. I wouldn't doubt that if you frequently visit RPF, the NSA probably logs all of your web traffic.

[torchbearer]

This isn't the whole story, though. Keep in mind that your ISP is most likely compromised anyway, and all private messages are completely unencrypted. I wouldn't doubt that if you frequently visit RPF, the NSA probably logs all of your web traffic.

PGP starts at your computer.

[powerofreason]

Ha ha, I can imagine the red flags going up on this post over at the NSA. :)

Do you think even our RPF private messages would be secure from government surveillance...?

Secure? Not a chance. The question is if they're looking. I'd say they are by now. The only way to have a hope of giving the feds a hard time locating you would be to use an anonymous proxy in a country not friendly to the U.S. Otherwise they'll just subpoena what they need. Who knows if they even bother to ask anymore.

[Mini-Me]

PGP starts at your computer.

True - I was referring more to your earlier message, where I assumed you were talking about private messages through RPF. If you're really interested in communications privacy, I'd look into I2P as well, by the way...it's still in progress and incomplete (and its user base is very small right now), but it involves not only privacy of message contents but also pseudonymity between who is even communicating with whom.

[torchbearer]

True - I was referring more to your earlier message, where I assumed you were talking about private messages through RPF. If you're really interested in communications privacy, I'd look into I2P as well, by the way...it's still in progress and incomplete (and its user base is very small right now), but it involves not only privacy of message contents but also pseudonymity between who is even communicating with whom.

Do you think our government has a backdoor key to PGP? or do you just prefer I2P?

[Mini-Me]

Do you think our government has a backdoor key to PGP? or do you just prefer I2P?

I honestly have no idea if the government has a backdoor key to PGP...I hope not. As far as I know, the algorithm they use doesn't have known security vulnerabilities anymore (though I could be wrong), and the only viable attacks are brute force attacks...which longer and longer keys can always make more and more costly and time-consuming until they take the age of the universe to complete. ;) The main advantage of I2P, at least when it's complete, will be the pseudonymity involved, because it's extremely difficult for anyone to tell who is even communicating with whom. With PGP, the NSA can more easily tell through compromised ISP's that you and Person X are communicating...they just don't know what you're saying to each other (assuming they haven't found a vulnerability in PGP's algorithm).

[torchbearer]

I honestly have no idea if the government has a backdoor key to PGP...I hope not. As far as I know, the algorithm they use doesn't have known security vulnerabilities anymore (though I could be wrong), and the only viable attacks are brute force attacks...which longer and longer keys can always make more and more costly and time-consuming until they take the age of the universe to complete. ;) The main advantage of I2P, at least when it's complete, will be the pseudonymity involved, because it's extremely difficult for anyone to tell who is even communicating with whom. With PGP, the NSA can more easily tell through compromised ISP's that you and Person X are communicating...they just don't know what you're saying to each other (assuming they haven't found a vulnerability in PGP's algorithm).

When will I2P be complete and how much does it cost?
I'm about to go completely secure.

[nodope0695]

Have you forgotten about Kent State?

[torchbearer]

Have you forgotten about Kent State?

Nope. Never will forget.

[Mini-Me]

When will I2P be complete and how much does it cost?
I'm about to go completely secure.

Oh, I forgot to mention...when you asked about backdoors in PGP, I just realized you were probably referring to backdoors maliciously inserted into the code, rather than inherent vulnerabilities in the underlying public/private key generation algorithm. I don't think there are any such backdoors, but it might be possible, since I don't think the main PGP implementation is open source (but I could be wrong). GPG is open source, though.

I'm not sure when I2P will be complete, but it's also free and open source software (i.e. people can verify that there are no backdoors in the code). It's slow as hell because of all the bounces that communications make, but that problem will be somewhat alleviated once it's complete and more people start using it. There's a cost to relative anonymity. ;) You can check out the Wikipedia article here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2P) and the project website here (http://www.i2p2.de/). The website is a little geeky in its explanations of how everything works, buuuuut....it is what it is. ;)

Under a truly totalitarian government, I think it would be pretty easy to shut down the I2P network, since I think the government could tell exactly what IP addresses use I2P via the locally stored NetDB, unless I'm mistaken about how the NetDB works. They wouldn't be able to tell who is communicating with whom, due to the way the IP addresses are decoupled from "network destinations" (it's a bit hard to explain :)), but they'd be able to get a list of all I2P users and raid all their homes, unless there are too many of them (which there aren't right now at all). That said, under a truly totalitarian government, all strong encryption would eventually be outlawed anyway, and you'd be raided for sending any message that cannot be easily eavesdropped on. :-/

[Mortikhi]

Do you think our government has a backdoor key to PGP? or do you just prefer I2P?

No. That's why they don't like it.

[tod evans]

"
Unfortunately, it will take WAY WAY more than what happened to the vets last night before anywhere close to a 'majority' wake up in this nation.

amen!
it`s a cryin` shame!

[constituent]

This isn't the whole story, though. Keep in mind that your ISP is most likely compromised anyway, and all private messages are completely unencrypted. I wouldn't doubt that if you frequently visit RPF, the NSA probably logs all of your web traffic.

thank you. most encryption is also bunk.

[constituent]

The only way to have a hope of giving the feds a hard time locating you would be to use an anonymous proxy in a country not friendly to the U.S.

Even then....


better know who runs the proxy.


If you're communicating across a wire that you do not have physical access to/control of, your communications are compromised.


That is just life and it has been that way for years.

[Sandra]

You need to implement low tech methods.

[constituent]

You need to implement low tech methods.

or...


become the static.


by...


reading lots of lit., and making sure your friends do the same :cool:

[eskimoranger]

The best tool (I am aware of) for secure communications is Mixminion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixminion). It is not mainstream but nevertheless developed by the brightest minds (in terms of cryptography and seccom) on the planet. They are basically anarchists of the digital world (cypherpunks) that believe in necessity of communication systems that are impossible to eavesdrop or trace.

The website for Mixminion is http://mixminion.net/ and a Windows graphical client can be found at http://peculiarplace.com/mixminion-message-sender/.

If you really want to kick NSA (and every other eavesdropper for that matter) straight in the balls, use it.

[powerofreason]

The best tool (I am aware of) for secure communications is Mixminion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixminion). It is not mainstream but nevertheless developed by the brightest minds (in terms of cryptography and seccom) on the planet. They are basically anarchists of the digital world (cypherpunks) that believe in necessity of communication systems that are impossible to eavesdrop or trace.

The website for Mixminion is http://mixminion.net/ and a Windows graphical client can be found at http://peculiarplace.com/mixminion-message-sender/.

If you really want to kick NSA (and every other eavesdropper for that matter) straight in the balls, use it.

Good to know.

[fedup100]

MSM is the best crowd control

So guess what must be taken down first when the revolution kicks in!

[Mini-Me]

The best tool (I am aware of) for secure communications is Mixminion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixminion). It is not mainstream but nevertheless developed by the brightest minds (in terms of cryptography and seccom) on the planet. They are basically anarchists of the digital world (cypherpunks) that believe in necessity of communication systems that are impossible to eavesdrop or trace.

The website for Mixminion is http://mixminion.net/ and a Windows graphical client can be found at http://peculiarplace.com/mixminion-message-sender/.

If you really want to kick NSA (and every other eavesdropper for that matter) straight in the balls, use it.

Although I2P will be a more general network layer when complete (support a whole lot more than email) and they're working towards meeting Mixminion's threat model, I think you're right: At least when it comes to anonymous/pseudonymous remailers, it looks like Mixminion may be the way to go for now. :) Granted, I haven't done any real research on it myself, but it's based on the same basic premise as I2P, it's more focused on remailing, and it looks further along in its development.

In response to constituent saying most kinds of encryption are bunk...it really depends. If there are no vulnerabilities in the public/private key algorithm, you can theoretically choose a key length that would take all of the computers in the world billions of years to crack (on average) via the brute force technique. That said, it's very difficult to determine if there are vulnerabilities in major algorithms which would allow the private key to be derived by an attacker, and if the NSA discovered any, I seriously doubt they'd let anyone know.

[mediahasyou]

Let's roll. Friend me if your in for the ride.

[john_anderson_ii]

Tech stuff aside, an armed revolution can only come at the hands of the armed members of the populace. Considering that only a small fraction of gun owners bother to join the NRA or GOA, or even vote as unified bloc, I don't see them taking up arms before their arms are taken away.

[torchbearer]

The best tool (I am aware of) for secure communications is Mixminion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixminion). It is not mainstream but nevertheless developed by the brightest minds (in terms of cryptography and seccom) on the planet. They are basically anarchists of the digital world (cypherpunks) that believe in necessity of communication systems that are impossible to eavesdrop or trace.

The website for Mixminion is http://mixminion.net/ and a Windows graphical client can be found at http://peculiarplace.com/mixminion-message-sender/.

If you really want to kick NSA (and every other eavesdropper for that matter) straight in the balls, use it.

noted.

[TruckinMike]

those of you using Microsoft are already monitored - via the NSA's joint venture with microsoft -- in kernal software development.

step 1. Stop using windows

step 2. switch to a linux or unix distribution for your operating system. ubuntu, suse, redhat ....et al

step 3. then use the previous posted suggestions with caution.

TMike

[Mini-Me]

those of you using Microsoft are already monitored - via the NSA's joint venture with microsoft -- in kernal software development.

step 1. Stop using windows

step 2. switch to a linux or unix distribution for your operating system. ubuntu, suse, redhat ....et al

step 3. then use the previous posted suggestions with caution.

TMike

This is worth repeating. I don't even want to imagine how many backdoors are built into Windows.

[DXDoug]

Bump GReat THREAD!!

[DXDoug]

Dont Forget It could HAppen Tommorow !


seriously

[pepperpete1]

Tech stuff aside, an armed revolution can only come at the hands of the armed members of the populace. Considering that only a small fraction of gun owners bother to join the NRA or GOA, or even vote as unified bloc, I don't see them taking up arms before their arms are taken away.

Who does the armed populace target? Those who unconstitutionally invade your home? Or do they start at the top and work their way down?

Most persons who own guns do so because THEY CAN. When it comes to the point where the law says they cannot, there will be some who would abide by the law and relinquesh them, then there are those who will not.

Whenever any bill comes up for legislation that would cause us to lose our right to be armed is when you have a mass coalition of supporters against it. We must be ever vigilant to those bills being enacted in the legislative process.

[mediahasyou]

Who does the armed populace target? Those who unconstitutionally invade your home? Or do they start at the top and work their way down?

Most persons who own guns do so because THEY CAN. When it comes to the point where the law says they cannot, there will be some who would abide by the law and relinquesh them, then there are those who will not.

Whenever any bill comes up for legislation that would cause us to lose our right to be armed is when you have a mass coalition of supporters against it. We must be ever vigilant to those bills being enacted in the legislative process.

Simply, an armed individual acts in self defense when his ownership of his life or property is coerced against. Behold, a revolution in self defense.

[mconder]

No- it only takes you and me... and a few others to decide to act now.
keep it to private messages though.

I think this statement alone is enough to get flagged. I hope your using PGP when you send these messages.

[mconder]

Sorry, I was replying to that first message and didn't notice the following encryption discussion. Just let me know which you go with and you can put me on the list of people who want to participate in private discussions. I wan't eveyone to know I will not discuss anything illegal and will report you all to the authorities ASAP if I see anything questionable... ;)

[dr. hfn]

Kent State should have started a revolution

[newbitech]

those of you using Microsoft are already monitored - via the NSA's joint venture with microsoft -- in kernal software development.

step 1. Stop using windows

step 2. switch to a linux or unix distribution for your operating system. ubuntu, suse, redhat ....et al

step 3. then use the previous posted suggestions with caution.

TMike

add in the following,

1.) on a laptop
2.) connect with a boosted wireless antenna
3.) connect to open routers while driving through the next town over

[torchbearer]

add in the following,

1.) on a laptop
2.) connect with a boosted wireless antenna
3.) connect to open routers while driving through the next town over

I was thinking about buying an used laptop, sticking linux and it, and using it as my communication device.
I'd like to have the main hard drive able to removed easily too.
That way I can keep it on me at all time.

[powerofreason]

Is PGP free?

edit: apparently not

[powerofreason]

If you believe IP is nonsense like myself, toss me a PM and I'll hook you up wit some pgp.

[powerofreason]

It lets you encrypt your aim convos... thats perfect. Sweet. I set it to automatic encryption :)

[torchbearer]

I'm setting up PGP tomorrow morning. I'll pm everyone who contacted me with specifics once i get it done.
I can use AIM if thats the IM of choice.

Any preference on best IM?
Can you use Voice over IP with PGP?

[constituent]

I was thinking about buying an used laptop, sticking linux and it, and using it as my communication device.
I'd like to have the main hard drive able to removed easily too.
That way I can keep it on me at all time.

Goodwill ComputerWorks

[torchbearer]

Goodwill ComputerWorks

Thank you!

[constituent]

Thank you!

np

[mediahasyou]

The Boston Massacre created an American Revolution
Kent State Shootings started a social revolution

I dare the government to touch one of ours and see what happens.

[powerofreason]

I'm setting up PGP tomorrow morning. I'll pm everyone who contacted me with specifics once i get it done.
I can use AIM if thats the IM of choice.

Any preference on best IM?
Can you use Voice over IP with PGP?

Didn't see anything about that. Looks like the main things you can do (with desktop pro version, dunno about anything else) is encrypt your entire hard drive or just certain files or folders, encrypt aim convos, encrypt email, thats about it I think. It only mentions AIM nothing else.