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View Full Version : Problem with "you broke it you buy it" philosophy of foreign policy




JasonM
09-06-2007, 02:50 PM
MR. HUCKABEE: We have to continue the surge. And let me explain why, Chris. When I was a little kid, if I went into a store with my mother, she had a simple rule for me. If I picked something off the shelf of the store and I broke it, I bought it.

I learned don't pick something off the shelf I can't afford to buy.

Well, what we did in Iraq, we essentially broke it. It's our responsibility to do the best we can to try to fix it before we just turn away because something is at stake. Senator McCain made a great point, and let me make this clear. If there's anybody on this stage that understands the word honor, I've got to say Senator McCain understands that word -- (applause, cheers) -- because he has given his country a sacrifice the rest of us don't even comprehend. (Continued applause.)




The problem with the "you broke it you buy it" saying is that the Iraq is not something like a window or a product off a shelf. Iraq is a country, not a product.

If we "broke" iraq, then by this statement we "bought" Iraq. Does this mean that we now own a broken Iraq? I don't like the way this logic is going.

The modified "you broke it you fix it" idea is problematic, but can be used to argue the other side as well (getting out). If a kid breaks a neighbor's window, the kid may have to pay for the window. However, the kid wouldn't actually be responsible for the actual repairs of the window. The neighbor would make those arrangements without physical interference from the child (just as well, because he would be highly likely to screw it up anyways).

So, even if we "broke" Iraq, only the Iraqis are capable of fixing their own country. The only thing we're responsible for is paying for the property damage (much like Germany was required to pay war damages after WW1).

mannycp
09-06-2007, 02:53 PM
good point

max
09-06-2007, 02:53 PM
MR. HUCKABEE: We have to continue the surge. And let me explain why, Chris. When I was a little kid, if I went into a store with my mother, she had a simple rule for me. If I picked something off the shelf of the store and I broke it, I bought it.

I learned don't pick something off the shelf I can't afford to buy.

Well, what we did in Iraq, we essentially broke it. It's our responsibility to do the best we can to try to fix it before we just turn away because something is at stake. Senator McCain made a great point, and let me make this clear. If there's anybody on this stage that understands the word honor, I've got to say Senator McCain understands that word -- (applause, cheers) -- because he has given his country a sacrifice the rest of us don't even comprehend. (Continued applause.)




The problem with the "you broke it you buy it" saying is that the Iraq is not something like a window or a product off a shelf. Iraq is a country, not a product.

If we "broke" iraq, then by this statement we "bought" Iraq. Does this mean that we now own a broken Iraq? I don't like the way this logic is going.

The modified "you broke it you fix it" idea is problematic, but can be used to argue the other side as well (getting out). If a kid breaks a neighbor's window, the kid may have to pay for the window. However, the kid wouldn't actually be responsible for the actual repairs of the window. The neighbor would make those arrangements without physical interference from the child (just as well, because he would be highly likely to screw it up anyways).

So, even if we "broke" Iraq, only the Iraqis are capable of fixing their own country. The only thing we're responsible for is paying for the property damage (much like Germany was required to pay war damages after WW1).

Dear Mr. Hucksterbee,

I didnt break anything. YOU DID!!!!

Dont make me or the troops pay for what YOU broke.

RockEnds
09-06-2007, 02:55 PM
The problem with the logic is that if you follow the line, Hitler should be in charge of Poland. His mother was telling him to keep his hands to himself. Breaking something is not a transfer of ownership. If someone breaks your car, do they own it? No. They owe you compensation for the damage. You, the owner, may choose to sell the vehicle, but ownership does not transfer due to damage. Huckabee is dangerously dumb.

Electric Church
09-06-2007, 02:56 PM
The guy's a moron. If you broke it then you fix it, you don't keep smashing it. The way to fix it is get the hell out and when we get our house in order send them aid to repair what we broke.

ctb619
09-06-2007, 02:57 PM
The guy's a moron. If you broke it then you fix it, you don't keep smashing it. The way to fix it is get the hell out and when we get our house in order send them aid to repair what we broke.

well said

max
09-06-2007, 02:59 PM
The guy's a moron. If you broke it then you fix it, you don't keep smashing it. The way to fix it is get the hell out and when we get our house in order send them aid to repair what we broke.

'My momma told me: "son, if you break it...well...just keep beaking more stuff because our national honor comes before politics and we dont take marching orders from Osama Bin laden."

Kuldebar
09-06-2007, 03:05 PM
I think the analogy fails outright. It would be more applicable if the kid in the store was in the process of breaking things, say like the store front windows with a base ball bat.

We need to quit breaking things. It isn't a done deal, it's happening and the damage is continuing.

If only it was a simple as a broken jar of pickles on aisle 4.

RP4ME
09-06-2007, 03:05 PM
In finance you are taught Never to continue throwing good money after bad! Again what price is it that we have to pay in order to save face - apparently its infintesimal (sp)
In addition to foreign policy, Huckster shows his fiduciary astuteness as well! $$$

Kuldebar
09-06-2007, 03:07 PM
In finance you are taught Never to continue throwing good money after bad! Again what price is it that we have to pay in order to save face - apparently its infintesimal (sp)
In addition to foreign policy, Huckster shows his fiduciary astuteness as well! $$$

Great point! Everything thing is economics. For those who know their economic theory, even human life and action.

adpierce
09-06-2007, 03:09 PM
We didn't break smack, Iraq was already broken, Saddam applied scotch tape with his totalitarian practices. The divides in Iraq have been there a long time, and it was just a matter of time before these people started killing each other again. It's not as if our troops are making these people kill each other. Come on, people see through the GOP bs!

Kuldebar
09-06-2007, 03:14 PM
We didn't break smack, Iraq was already broken, Saddam applied scotch tape with his totalitarian practices. The divides in Iraq have been there a long time, and it was just a matter of time before these people started killing each other again. It's not as if our troops are making these people kill each other. Come on, people see through the GOP bs!

Oh, we broke things, that's what our military is very good at, I don't see any use denying that, but I still think the Huckabee's analogy fails.

We continue to break the people of Iraq's right to self determination. An artificial state created after WW2, held together by cruel regime, now being held together via American Military force.

We need to let the bubble burst and human progress proceed.

Larofeticus
09-06-2007, 03:14 PM
Iraq was broken before we got there; just in a different way than it is now.

Solving the problem of mr. hussein only released the arguably worse problem of sectarian violence.

Besides,
These men are running for president, not assistant manager of pottery barn.

Kuldebar
09-06-2007, 03:29 PM
Iraq was broken before we got there; just in a different way than it is now.

Solving the problem of mr. hussein only released the arguably worse problem of sectarian violence.

Besides,
These men are running for president, not assistant manager of pottery barn.]

Yup.

But, there's many a (hu)man running for office who should probably be applying for a job as a short order fry cook, because they believe that you have to break some eggs in order to make an omelet.

The ends justifying the means is very shaky moral grounds in my opinion, especially when you don't own those eggs you are so eagerly breaking and your omelets taste like crap.

Electric Church
09-06-2007, 03:37 PM
Iraq was already broken, Saddam applied scotch tape with his totalitarian practices.

So we blow up the scotch tape along with thousands of our troops and over 1 million Iraqi civilians.


The divides in Iraq have been there a long time, and it was just a matter of time before these people started killing each other again.

Ya. Since it's "just a matter of time before these people started killing each other" we might as well go in there and do it for them only more effectively and by the millions. Good reason to invade and bomb a country, because they're going to kill each other anyway. I wonder if Bush would have gotten the approval of congress if he used that as a reason to invade Iraq.



It's not as if our troops are making these people kill each other.

It's not our troops that are making people kill each other, it's our foreign policy that's creating more instability in the area.

quickmike
09-06-2007, 03:45 PM
This broke it buy it crap goes back to what Ron has been saying all along. This is why we need to stick to the constitution and make congress responsible for deciding to go to war or not. When you let the executive decide, how can you say "we" broke it? The president and his cronies broke it, after all, who represents the people? Congress does. So if congress didnt declare war, how can we say "we" did anything to cause any of this?


Its like the government is saying this to us --

"Well folks, we screwed up. We spent YOUR money and went to war without YOUR approval and it didnt work out. So now we need more of YOUR money to correct the mistakes WE made. So now YOU people will have to tighten YOUR belts because WE screwed up...................................sorry"

Talk about taxation without representation. Huckabee is full of it.

Bush, Cheney,Wolfowitz and the rest of them should be the ones paying for the whole thing with all of their families wealth, bankrupting them if need be. Hey, its only fair since they broke it, right Huckabee?

If his mom broke something in the store, should lil' Huckabee be responsible for buying it? If not, then his analogy makes no sense since his mom represents him. Not a single american voted on going to this war. They should not have to "buy it"

fj45lvr
09-06-2007, 04:03 PM
They have achieved everything they wanted out of this "war"...appeased Israel, the oil companies, vendetta, and have our new BASE right in the middle of it all.

The "broke it" stuff is just talk from a guy who is on the OUTSIDE and never really knew the game plan....it's no different than the Palestinians (they could really care less if they have a democratic gov. with stability, they would just as soon have it be non-functioning and rife with problems because it makes it that much easier to pull the wool over the eyes to the real intent of the guys pulling the strings for their intentions.

The prevailing attitude of Americans that think we have a RIGHT or a DUTY to be all over the globe with 700+ military bases is just pure insanity or stupidity and contradicts everything our understanding of "sovereignty" WAS at one time in our history for our own states, our federal union or for indigenous tribal nations not to mention other countries on the globe. Recognizing the truth about how far we are off the mark is spun to be either "old fashioned" or "hatred for our Country" rather than respect to what this Country USED TO believe...our biggest enemy is our own people.

Elwar
09-06-2007, 04:07 PM
We've broken a lot of things in the past century. We should start with a policy of "don't break things".


We will lose to Hillary honorably. --The new battle cry of the neo-cons.

billm317
09-06-2007, 04:11 PM
I would also like to see Huckabee walk up to a mother who has just lost her son and tell him her son died because, even though we made a mistake by going to war, we need to keep our "honor". There is nothing honorable about going into an illegal war under false pretenses.

These guys are so delusional.

JasonM
09-06-2007, 05:17 PM
We didn't break smack, Iraq was already broken, Saddam applied scotch tape with his totalitarian practices. The divides in Iraq have been there a long time, and it was just a matter of time before these people started killing each other again. It's not as if our troops are making these people kill each other. Come on, people see through the GOP bs!


Ah, but you forget that we were partially responsible for helping Saddam get there (and stay there) in the first place. See? We did break Iraq. :D