EXCLUSIVE: "Liberty PAC" Candidates Are Not Pro-Liberty

[Knightskye]

As you may know, Dr. Paul has a list of federal candidates that he has endorsed for Congress. Some of them are already members of Congress. But do they really represent the goal of Ron Paul's Liberty PAC?

http://www.libertypac.net/html/federal.html

The goal of Liberty PAC is to help fund and elect conservative, pro-Constitution, pro-liberty, pro-American sovereignty candidates who share Congressman Ron Paul’s commitment to the values and principles upon which our nation was founded.

These candidates are not conservative, not pro-Constitution, and not pro-Liberty.
*Note: HR1955 wasn't listed on the Project Vote pages, but I did find it on GovTrack. And all of them voted Aye (except Dr. Paul).

*Added the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (H.R. 6304)
*Added grades by the 'Poker Players Alliance', which used votes on certain bills to determine a grade.


How Ron Paul voted
Patriot Act: Nay
Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001: Nay
Iraq War: Nay
Homeland Security Act of 2002: Nay
Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act: No Vote
Amendment to prohibit funds from being used by the Justice Department from prosecuting people in states where medical marijuana is legal: Aye
Troop Redeployment and Appropriations: Nay
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-4156
Bill to reduce forces in Iraq by April 1, 2008: No Vote
Military Commissions Act: Nay
No Child Left Behind Act: Nay
Mandatory Troop Rest Period: Aye
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-796
Troop timeline, interrogation techniques, criminal code, etc.: Nay
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=19241
Resolution Expressing Support for Troops, Disapproval of the Surge: Aye
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=V3938
Afghanistan Appropriations, Prohibition of funds going toward Iraq, Prohibition of funds used to torture: Aye
http://votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=16932
FISA Amendments Act of 2008: No Vote
Rating by Poker Players Alliance: A+
Whistleblower Protection Act of 2007: Aye
Economic Stimulus Package: Nay


Ratings by the Poker Players Alliance
Ron Paul: A+
Walter Jones: F
Doug Lamborn: F
Roscoe Bartlett: F
Dennis Rehberg: F
Scott Garrett: F
Michelle Bachman: F

For the "no vote" ones, it's presumably because he was on the campaign trail.

Let's see how his friends voted.

Walter Jones
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=21785

Voted for Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
Voted for the Patriot Act.
Voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act.
Voted for the Homeland Security Act of 2002.
Voted for the Iraq War.
Voted to fund the war (as recently as June, 2008)
Voted against an amendment banning the Justice Department from "arresting, prosecuting, or suing" people involved in the distribution of medical marijuana.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=V3541&can_id=21785
Voted against an amendment that would have blocked funds from being used by the Department of Justice to prevent states from exercising their medical marijuana laws.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=14547&can_id=21785
Voted for the Economic Stimulus Package
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=17020

Doug Lamborn
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=2698

Voted for the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (retroactive immunity for telecom companies)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-437
Voted for Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
Voted against setting troop withdrawal timeline.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=16229&can_id=2698
Voted against mandatory troop rest period between deployments
Voted against an amendment that would have done the following:
- Set a withdrawal timeline that would have had all combat troops home by December, 2009.
- Require troops deployed to Iraq fit the Pentagon's definition of "combat ready."
- Amend federal criminal code to make contractors in Iraq subject to U.S. law.
- Prohibit interrogation techniques not authorized by the Army Field Manual.
- Extend the statute of limitations for fraud cases during wartime.
- Amend federal criminal code to prohibit profiteering and fraud involving contractors overseas.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=19241&can_id=2698
Voted against a bill that would have required the Department of Defense to reduce the number of troops in Iraq by April 1, 2008.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=14407&can_id=2698
Voted against bill showing support for the troops, but disapproval of "the surge".
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=V3938&can_id=2698
Voted against the Whistleblower Protection Act of 2007
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=12779
Voted for the Economic Stimulus Package
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=17020

Roscoe Bartlett
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=26891

Voted for the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (retroactive immunity for telecom companies)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-437
Voted for the Iraq War.
Voted for the Homeland Security Act of 2002.
Voted against bill to reduce American forces in Iraq by April 1, 2008.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=14407&can_id=26891
Voted for the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
Voted for the Economic Stimulus Package
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=17020

Dennis Rehberg
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=404

Voted for the Patriot Act.
Voted for the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001, which did the following:
- Allowed federal authorities to arrest and jail non-Americans suspected of being a threat to our national security
- Eased restrictions on wiretapping and surveillance, and the sharing of which between government agencies.
- And other things.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=V3097&can_id=404
Voted for the Homeland Security Act of 2002.
Voted for No Child Left Behind.
Voted against mandatory troop rest periods between deployments.
Voted against bill to reduce American forces in Iraq by April 1, 2008.
Voted against bill expressing support for troops and disapproval for "the surge".
Voted for the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
Voted for the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (retroactive immunity for telecom companies)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-437
Voted against the Whistleblower Protection Act of 2007
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=12779
Voted for the Economic Stimulus Package
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=17020

Scott Garrett
http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=4430

Voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act.
Voted for the Military Commissions Act.
Voted to fund the Department of Homeland Security.
Voted against mandatory troop rest periods between deployments.
Voted against appropriating money for Afghanistan.
*Bill would have also:
- Prohibited money in the bill from being used for operations in Iraq
- Prohibited money in the bill from being used to conduct torture or other cruel or unusual punishment.
Voted for the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
Voted for the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (retroactive immunity for telecom companies)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-437
Voted against the Whistleblower Protection Act of 2007
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=12779

Michelle Bachmann
Voted against mandatory troop rest periods between deployments.
*Bill would have also:
- Prohibited money in the bill from being used for operations in Iraq
- Prohibited money in the bill from being used to conduct torture or other cruel or unusual punishment.
Voted for the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
Voted for the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (retroactive immunity for telecom companies)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-437
Voted against funding Afghanistan operations
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=16932&can_id=54675
Voted against bill showing support for the troops, but disapproval of "the surge".
Voted against the Whistleblower Protection Act of 2007
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=12779
Voted for the Economic Stimulus Package
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=17020

[Spirit of '76]

How did Ron Paul vote on those same bills?

What else was in the bills that might have been objectionable on constitutional grounds?

Who is running against these incumbents, and how do they measure up on the issues of substance -- especially as regards government intervention in the economy?

Yes, some of them voted for the authorization to go into Iraq or for the so-called PATRIOT Act but have since changed their positions. That is not uncommon. Hell, Bob Barr did all that (in addition to being a hardcore drug warrior), but lots of people here seem willing to give him a pass.

[Jeremy]

Walter Jones is like Bob Barr. No perfect voting record...

but he's outspoken against the war, and that's good because he voted for it and now criticizes the Bush administration for tricking them. he was also, like Bob Barr, at that thing with the committee about impeaching Bush. he has some bill that would cut back on some of the president's power

[TruthAtLast]

i think people in Congress are similar to many in this forum who have taken their own ideological journey of discovery. For instance, an uninformed person with good intentions might look at the "War on Drugs" and "Department of Education" and think those are good causes worthy of support. It isn't until you peel back all of the layers and get to the core understanding and purpose of the Constitution, do they realize the truth.

Sadly, many good people in Congress (and I'm convinced there are a lot of them) just haven't done the research we have. Many people here are VERY passionate about these topics. We actively search out new information and seek truth. I would bet most in Congress haven't even read the Constitution and even less have contemplated the true meaning of it.

Ron Paul might have a more pristine voting record because he simply woke up earlier in life. The real challenge is to find those people in Congress that can be converted when presented with these ideas, and separate those that knowingly violate the Constitution even after they have been told what will happen.

Do most Congressmen know how the central bank was started or even how fractional reserve banking works? Have they studied the differences between Austrian & Keynesian economic theories?

[Shotdown1027]

These congressmen are amongst the MOST pro-liberty in Congress. Of course none of them are perfect, but they are better than most. All of them voted against the bailout.

[michigan wolverine]

Lst's look at this from a couple of different perspectives. Number 1 if you have not contributed to the Liberty PAC you have nothing to complain about. If you have you should have figured that some of the money would go to candidates that you do not agree with entirely.

Secondly if you are looking for the perfect candidate there is none. If you continue to perform litmus tests you won't have anyone to vote for.

[Havax]

Roscoe Bartlett is a Maryland congressman. No single congressman has sponsored or co-sponsored more bills with Ron Paul than Roscoe Bartlett has. I talked to his campaign manager when Ron Paul was at my school last week. She told me pretty much every time he goes to vote he looks around for Ron and follows his lead.

[TastyWheat]

Thanks for the info, but nobody should give money to or vote for anyone without doing proper research. If everyone on my ballot looks good I'll be voting straight libertarian. The libertarian running for my Representative explicitly said she wouldn't support drug legalization. I'll have to just think about how important that issue is to me.

[nate895]

Walter Jones has since changed his opinion on those issues.

The others are simply the best of the worst up on the Hill.

[Knightskye]

Thanks for the info, but nobody should give money to or vote for anyone without doing proper research.

Some people are willing to vote for whoever Ron Paul tells them to. A lot, actually.

"Ron Paul says he's okay, so he's okay with me."

[Knightskye]

Just wanted to note that all candidates listed in the original post voted for HR1955, the "Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act".
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993

That was late last year. I'm not sure if they've converted to liberty since then. :rolleyes:

[Knightskye]

Edited main post to include the HR1955 votes and to show what Ron Paul's votes were on the bills.

[Knightskye]

Brump!

[Knightskye]

Eh?

[Knightskye]

Silencing dissent?

[Spirit of '76]

Silencing dissent?

Huh?

[Razmear]

Ron Paul needs to endorse Bob Conley over Lindsey Graham NOW.
His continued refusal to do so is making him seem that he supports party over principles.
Read the Message From Bob Conley post and send it to the folks over at Liberty PAC and insist that they list Bob Conley on the Pro Liberty candidates list!
Refusing to endorse a Ron Paul Democrat just because there is an incumbent Neo Con Republican is nuts.

eb

[LibertyEagle]

Ron Paul needs to endorse Bob Conley over Lindsey Graham NOW.
His continued refusal to do so is making him seem that he supports party over principles.
Read the Message From Bob Conley post and send it to the folks over at Liberty PAC and insist that they list Bob Conley on the Pro Liberty candidates list!
Refusing to endorse a Ron Paul Democrat just because there is an incumbent Neo Con Republican is nuts.

eb

I do not believe he CAN endorse a Democrat. That is, if he wants to hold onto his various House committee memberships.

[Razmear]

I do not believe he CAN endorse a Democrat. That is, if he wants to hold onto his various House committee memberships.

If that is true then how could he endorse Chuck Baldwin?

eb

[LibertyEagle]

If that is true then how could he endorse Chuck Baldwin?

eb

Is Chuck Baldwin a Democrat?

[Knightskye]

Is Chuck Baldwin a Democrat?

Chuck isn't a Republican.

[Razmear]

Is Chuck Baldwin a Democrat?

No, but he is also not a Republican.

Also what about Liberman's endorsement of McCain and vice versa?
I don't believe there is any party rule against endorsing across party lines, and if so I'm sure a bit of research could find multiple instances where candidates have endorsed members of other parties without repercussions.

eb

[Knightskye]

How did Ron Paul vote on those same bills?

I added that.


Who is running against these incumbents, and how do they measure up on the issues of substance -- especially as regards government intervention in the economy?

I'm sure there's a third party, such as a Libertarian nominee or a non-theocratic Constitution Party nominee running in those races. Why does Ron Paul have to endorse anyone at all?


Yes, some of them voted for the authorization to go into Iraq or for the so-called PATRIOT Act but have since changed their positions. That is not uncommon. Hell, Bob Barr did all that (in addition to being a hardcore drug warrior), but lots of people here seem willing to give him a pass.

Bob Barr put in the sunset provisions that put the Patriot Act up for expiration. And tried to stop it from being reauthorized, which some of these candidates voted to reauthorize. And they all voted for HR1955, last year.

[Spirit of '76]

I added that.

Partially, yeah, and I appreciate your efforts.

[qh4dotcom]

These congressmen are amongst the MOST pro-liberty in Congress. Of course none of them are perfect, but they are better than most. All of them voted against the bailout.

Just because someone voted against the bailout does not excuse them from disrespecting the Constitution and their oath of office when they cast other votes.

Unless their opponents are worse, they need to be thrown out of office too.

Bob Conley also needs to be added to the Liberty PAC Candidate

[Knightskye]

Partially, yeah, and I appreciate your efforts.

Okay, I think I got them all now. What do you think? ;)


Just because someone voted against the bailout does not excuse them from disrespecting the Constitution and their oath of office when they cast other votes.

Unless their opponents are worse, they need to be thrown out of office too.

Bob Conley also needs to be added to the Liberty PAC Candidate

Absolutely.

[jsu718]

Well you do have to remember, not everyone can be Ron Paul. Ron lives in Texas, the greatest state in the nation. Not every candidate can vote with the Constitution every time and actually make a second term. You have to toe the party line sometimes until you are established enough to be secure in your position as a Representative, and then you can start voting they way you SHOULD and telling your constituents that it is right too. Too many people are too far gone in the brainwashing to put up with sound logic and real truth from a candidate most of the time. Ron found a good spot with good people that he knew for years before he could make it in the House... and even then, he has had some VERY tough opposition.

[mitty]

As you may know, Dr. Paul has a list of federal candidates that he has endorsed for Congress. Some of them are already members of Congress. But do they really represent the goal of Ron Paul's Liberty PAC?

http://www.libertypac.net/html/federal.html


These candidates are not conservative, not pro-Constitution, and not pro-Liberty.
*Note: HR1955 wasn't listed on the Project Vote pages, but I did find it on GovTrack. And all of them voted Aye (except Dr. Paul).



How Ron Paul voted
Patriot Act: Nay
Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001: Nay
Iraq War: Nay
Homeland Security Act of 2002: Nay
Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act: Not Voting
Amendment to prohibit funds from being used by the Justice Department from prosecuting people in states where medical marijuana is legal: Aye
Troop Redeployment and Appropriations: Nay
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-4156
Bill to reduce forces in Iraq by April 1, 2008: Not Voting
Military Commissions Act: Nay
No Child Left Behind Act: Nay
Mandatory Troop Rest Period: Aye
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-796
Troop timeline, interrogation techniques, criminal code, etc.: Nay
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=19241
Resolution Expressing Support for Troops, Disapproval of the Surge: Aye
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=V3938
Afghanistan Appropriations, Prohibition of funds going toward Iraq, Prohibition of funds used to torture: Aye
http://votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?cs_id=16932

For the "not voting" ones, it's presumably because he was on the campaign trail.

Let's see how his friends voted.

Walter Jones
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=21785

Voted for Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
Voted for the Patriot Act.
Voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act.
Voted for the Homeland Security Act of 2002.
Voted for the Iraq War.
Voted to fund the war (as recently as June, 2008)
Voted against an amendment banning the Justice Department from "arresting, prosecuting, or suing" people involved in the distribution of medical marijuana.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=V3541&can_id=21785
Voted against an amendment that would have blocked funds from being used by the Department of Justice to prevent states from exercising their medical marijuana laws.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=14547&can_id=21785

Doug Lamborn
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=2698

*Note - Mr. Lamborn was elected in November, 2006, so he obviously wasn't there to vote for many things.

Voted for Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993
Voted against setting troop withdrawal timeline.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=16229&can_id=2698

Voted against mandatory troop rest period between deployments
Voted against an amendment that would have done the following:
- Set a withdrawal timeline that would have had all combat troops home by December, 2009.
- Require troops deployed to Iraq fit the Pentagon's definition of "combat ready."
- Amend federal criminal code to make contractors in Iraq subject to U.S. law.
- Prohibit interrogation techniques not authorized by the Army Field Manual.
- Extend the statute of limitations for fraud cases during wartime.
- Amend federal criminal code to prohibit profiteering and fraud involving contractors overseas.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=19241&can_id=2698
Voted against a bill that would have required the Department of Defense to reduce the number of troops in Iraq by April 1, 2008.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=14407&can_id=2698
Voted against bill showing support for the troops, but disapproval of "the surge".
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=V3938&can_id=2698

Roscoe Bartlett
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=26891

Voted for the Iraq War.
Voted for the Homeland Security Act of 2002.
Voted against bill to reduce American forces in Iraq by April 1, 2008.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=14407&can_id=26891
Voted for the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993

Dennis Rehberg
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=404

Voted for the Patriot Act.
Voted for the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001, which did the following:
- Allowed federal authorities to arrest and jail non-Americans suspected of being a threat to our national security
- Eased restrictions on wiretapping and surveillance, and the sharing of which between government agencies.
- And other things.
http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=V3097&can_id=404
Voted for the Homeland Security Act of 2002.
Voted for No Child Left Behind.
Voted against mandatory troop rest periods between deployments.
Voted against bill to reduce American forces in Iraq by April 1, 2008.
Voted against bill expressing support for troops and disapproval for "the surge".
Voted for the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993

Scott Garrett
http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=4430

Voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act.
Voted for the Military Commissions Act.
Voted to fund the Department of Homeland Security.
Voted against mandatory troop rest periods between deployments.
Voted against appropriating money for Afghanistan.
*Bill would have also:
- Prohibited money in the bill from being used for operations in Iraq
- Prohibited money in the bill from being used to conduct torture or other cruel or unusual punishment.
Voted for the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-993

barr's pac is the same. yet you never made a post about it. obviously kind of thing isn't a big deal for you.

[Knightskye]

barr's pac is the same. yet you never made a post about it. obviously kind of thing isn't a big deal for you.

What's the mission statement of Barr's pac?

Who's leading the Campaign for Liberty?

Who'd Ron Paul endorse for president?

[Knightskye]

Bump for your thoughts.

[ceakins]

What's the mission statement of Barr's pac?

Who's leading the Campaign for Liberty?

Who'd Ron Paul endorse for president?

Exactly!

This alone should get them thrown off the PAC list: Voted for Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act <- That is a fairly recent vote.

I'm starting to think I was duped into giving money by Ron Paul. I mean he's supporting a constitution party candidate and they have many ties to racist organizations.

[ceakins]

One more thing, I live in the 6th District of Washington State. Norm Dicks is the incumbent democrat, who votes like a neo-con. The leading contender against him is Doug Cloud, and Doug supported Ron Paul, even so much as linking to him on his own campaign site. He has stated who would have voted against many of the things that Ron Paul would vote against. He's a constitutional libertarian leaning Republican. Yet he's not listed on this PAC.

[Knightskye]

Exactly!

This alone should get them thrown off the PAC list: Voted for Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act <- That is a fairly recent vote.

Yeah, I think it was last October.

Where does this PAC money go? Does it actually go to these candidates?

[Knightskye]

I added the FISA Amendments Act of 2008, after it popped into my head.

If anyone can think of any other civil liberty-related votes that aren't already included, that I should add, I would appreciate your input. Or other votes you can think of that violate the Bill of Rights.

[Knightskye]

Bump for your thoughts.

[RP4EVER]

My thoughts are this

1.)Ron Paul has been put on a pedestal and that is not realistic.
2.) In the interest of fairness why is Congressman Roscoe Bartletts full voting record IE; those which are listed below Ron Pauls name not shown?

[Knightskye]

My thoughts are this

1.)Ron Paul has been put on a pedestal and that is not realistic.

I'm just trying to understand how the owner of a PAC that stands for liberty and the Constitution and conservatism can endorse these candidates.


2.) In the interest of fairness why is Congressman Roscoe Bartletts full voting record IE; those which are listed below Ron Pauls name not shown?

Here's his Project Vote Smart page:
http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=26891

And here's GovTrack.us, since Vote Smart doesn't list all votes.

Find some pro-liberty/conservative votes and post them here, please.

[mitty]

What's the mission statement of Barr's pac?

Who's leading the Campaign for Liberty?

Who'd Ron Paul endorse for president?

i'd quote you the mission statement for barr's pac, but for some reason he doesn't have a website for it. so we'll have to use an email his campaign sent out:

"He heads up the second largest Political Action Committee in Georgia (the Bob Barr Leadership Fund) which has raised substantial amounts of money to spread our message and program of freedom. His PAC has contributed generously to Libertarian candidates and parties, more than $20,000 in the past two years, and his other expenditures are used to get the libertarian message out."

okay. so his pac is for spreading the libertarian message. the same message that he "supports" as a presidential candidate and a libertarian party member. so who did he give money to?

norm coleman
lindsey graham
chris shays
arlen specter
john sununu

he also gave to paul's opponent in the primary, jim gilmore

i stand by my original post

[Knightskye]

i'd quote you the mission statement for barr's pac, but for some reason he doesn't have a website for it. so we'll have to use an email his campaign sent out:

"He heads up the second largest Political Action Committee in Georgia (the Bob Barr Leadership Fund) which has raised substantial amounts of money to spread our message and program of freedom. His PAC has contributed generously to Libertarian candidates and parties, more than $20,000 in the past two years, and his other expenditures are used to get the libertarian message out."

okay. so his pac is for spreading the libertarian message. the same message that he "supports" as a presidential candidate and a libertarian party member. so who did he give money to?

norm coleman
lindsey graham
chris shays
arlen specter
john sununu

he also gave to paul's opponent in the primary, jim gilmore

i stand by my original post

Okay, maybe they're both hypocritical. I was just on the Liberty PAC page and decided to research a couple of their voting records. If a page for Barr's existed, maybe I would have done the same. But I think we should be discussing the chart, and not accusing me of something.

[mitty]

Okay, maybe they're both hypocritical. I was just on the Liberty PAC page and decided to research a couple of their voting records. If a page for Barr's existed, maybe I would have done the same. But I think we should be discussing the chart, and not accusing me of something.

lol. nice. trying to turn it around on me. i was asking why you never criticized barr for doing the same you are criticizing ron paul.

while barr's pac may not have a website, you can easily find information on it. you can easily find who he donated to and look up their voting record. it aint private information.
http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/com_supopp/2007_C00340190

[Knightskye]

lol. nice. trying to turn it around on me. i was asking why you never criticized barr for doing the same you are criticizing ron paul.

while barr's pac may not have a website, you can easily find information on it. you can easily find who he donated to and look up their voting record. it aint private information.
http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/com_supopp/2007_C00340190

Right. Criticize me for not doing something. I'm sure everything is supposed to pop into my head.

What's stopping you from making a similar thread about Barr's PAC?

[mitty]

Right. Criticize me for not doing something. I'm sure everything is supposed to pop into my head.

What's stopping you from making a similar thread about Barr's PAC?

its been done. i dont need the same people that bitch to me like you are to bitch about the hundreds of barr hating threads

[Knightskye]

Bump for discussion of the original post.

[Knightskye]

bump for discussion of the original post.

Qft. :D

[Knightskye]

Bumpin' it!

[Knightskye]

Bump.

[Knightskye]

Bump some more.

[kombayn]

Exactly!

This alone should get them thrown off the PAC list: Voted for Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act <- That is a fairly recent vote.

I'm starting to think I was duped into giving money by Ron Paul. I mean he's supporting a constitution party candidate and they have many ties to racist organizations.

I'm also curious as to why Ron Paul voted "No Vote" on the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act... To me, it screams back to the "newsletters" when it posted the hateful words towards the rioters. I know Ron Paul isn't perfect but it does speak wonders. A "No Vote" basically means you like the idea of the act but not everything written in it. But it's the message of Liberty that needs to be spread, if I was anyone I would stay away from the Liberty PAC. It's not an ally.

[Shotdown1027]

Liberty PAC is supporting the most pro-liberty incumbents in Congress and likely getting promises to attend the Liberty Committee meetings in return. I'm all for it.

[kombayn]

I'm not. We all seen what Bob Barr's PAC does or any PAC for that matter. It's just a political lobbying committee. Plus, it's a new PAC and should be going for more of the extreme candidates so they can build up the PAC from the inside. Anyways, I just loathe the idea of PAC's and Lobbyists to begin with. Paid tools, told what to say and think.

[Knightskye]

I'm also curious as to why Ron Paul voted "No Vote" on the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act... To me, it screams back to the "newsletters" when it posted the hateful words towards the rioters. I know Ron Paul isn't perfect but it does speak wonders. A "No Vote" basically means you like the idea of the act but not everything written in it. But it's the message of Liberty that needs to be spread, if I was anyone I would stay away from the Liberty PAC. It's not an ally.

That was in October, 2007, right? He was campaigning. Wasn't the Michigan debate back in October?

http://www.congressionalpoker.org/index.php?option=com_sectionex&view=category&id=2&Itemid=12#catid38


Liberty PAC is supporting the most pro-liberty incumbents in Congress

I don't think you read the first post. If it was actually supporting the most pro-liberty incumbents, Kucinich would be on there.

But anyway, I'm adding their grades from the Poker Players Alliance.
http://www.congressionalpoker.org/index.php?option=com_sectionex&view=category&id=2&Itemid=12#catid38

[Knightskye]

Hmm. They all got F's... :rolleyes:

[Shotdown1027]

"If it was actually supporting the most pro-liberty incumbents, Kucinich would be on there"

WHAT!? Kucinich is a total socialist? A brave, courageous, anti-establihsment man? Absolutely, but socialist nonetheless. Besides, Paul obviously has to play the game. You're nuts.

[Knightskye]

"If it was actually supporting the most pro-liberty incumbents, Kucinich would be on there"

WHAT!? Kucinich is a total socialist? A brave, courageous, anti-establihsment man? Absolutely, but socialist nonetheless.

Pro-liberty describes Kucinich a lot more than the incumbent congressmen on the list of Liberty PAC-endorsed candidates. Kucinich votes with the Constitution and Dr. Paul when he votes on civil liberties bills. Doug Lamborn, et al., do not.


Besides, Paul obviously has to play the game.

What's the score? :rolleyes:

[Shotdown1027]

So Civil Liberties are all that matters? Please, the bulk of Dr. Paul's message is about small government and Austrian Economics---two thing Kucinich is VERY far away from.

[Knightskye]

So Civil Liberties are all that matters? Please, the bulk of Dr. Paul's message is about small government and Austrian Economics---two thing Kucinich is VERY far away from.

Okay, name some bills that would have made the government bigger, or smaller, and we can check out who voted for or against them.

[Knightskye]

I'll be adding the recently added incumbents soon.

[Knightskye]

Added Bachmann. She was the only newly endorsed incumbent who got re-elected.

Also added several votes, such as the Whistleblower Protection Act of 2007, which I'll commend Walter Jones and Roscoe Bartlett for voting for.

I moved the Poker Players Alliance grades.