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damania
10-11-2008, 02:34 PM
Deregulation Sank the Titanic!

On April 14th, 1912, the largest, most technological advanced passenger steamship in the world, hit an iceberg. Two hours and forty minutes later, the Titanic sank, with the loss of 1,517 lives. Only 705 people survived.

Nearly a century later, the sinking of the Titanic has turned into a cottage industry where, as Harvard historian Steven Biel joked, only ‘Jesus and the Civil War have been written about more.’ Nearly 200 books have been written on the disaster, with countless documentaries, movies, historical and scientific studies analyzing what caused the Titanic to sink. Was it the fault of the captain, running the ship too hard to make a deadline to New York? Was it the fault of the engineers, some defect in the ship’s design? Was the fault of the Marconi wireless officers too busy tapping out passenger’s messages they failed to heed iceberg warning from other ships? Was it the wrath of God angry because the White Star Line didn’t christen their ships? Was it incompetence and the lack of enough lifeboats? Was it just plain bad luck? What they all didn’t know was that a confidential investigation launched by the ship’s builders shortly after the disaster had all too quickly – and all too easily – determined exactly what sank the Titanic.

It was the lack of regulation.

J. P. Morgan (the actual man, not the company, or the company too, but owned by the living person, then called the International Mercantile Marine Co., the company, not the... oh nevermind...) bought controlling interest in the British and American shipping companies building the Titanic. The US government further provided him with substantial tax cuts and subsidies. The only private company to resist Morgan’s takeover, Cunard Shipping, was promptly subsidized by the British government. J. P. Morgan was given the financial backing and the freedom to do whatever he wanted, unhindered by any oversight or liability.

Because the shipbuilding industry was un(de)regulated, the shipbuilders were pressured to make changes in the Titanic's construction against the strenuous objections of the design engineers – using plate a quarter of an inch thinner and rivets an eighth thinner in order to shave 2500 tons off her weight, not just to cut costs but so the ship would sail faster than the competition. Two other ships, the Republic and the Florida, collided off Massachusetts while the Titanic was being built, and even though they were damaged far more badly than would be the Titanic, the Florida made it back to New York and the Republic didn't sink for 38 hours, with all 750 passengers saved. The Titanic barely nicked an iceberg, not even with enough force to tear a gash in the hull as was first thought, but just hard enough to pop out the rivets and buckle the steel plate hull, allowing water to flood into five compartments. With a flimsy hull and skimpy rivets, however, the rest of the hull couldn’t endure the strain of the water. She broke up into 3 pieces, (not two as first thought) before she completely sank, and went down faster and at a steeper angle than even Cameron depicted in his movie.

The investigation proved conclusively it was negligence (and greed) on the part of the ship owners unhindered by any industry regulation. But the investigation was quickly buried and never made public, two formal governmental inquiries pinned the official blame on the (conveniently dead) captain of the Titanic, because the lawsuits from so many victims would have bankrupted the ship's owners, including J. P. Morgan. (Whose bank, ironically enough, just 'rescued' my bank, WaMu.)

'If J. P. Morgan wanted a boat made out of papier-mâché, they would have made him a boat out of papier-mâché,' said Brad Matsen, who's just published his findings on this long buried investigation in a new book, Titanic’s Last Secrets.

But beyond all question, was the lack of regulation of shipbuilding at the time that was responsible for sinking the Titanic.

Ninety-seven years later, industrialists and big business have once again built another ‘unsinkable’ Titanic, a deceptively impressive colossus made out of papier-mâché, sinking rapidly due to deregulation, and is allowing the government to pin the blame on the third-class passengers. Except this time, it’s the Ship of State. And somehow, I’m starting to worry about those lifeboats…

http://www.crooksandliars.com/nonny-mouse/deregulation-sank-titanic

torchbearer
10-11-2008, 02:41 PM
I thought an iceberg sank the titanic.

ItsTime
10-11-2008, 02:42 PM
I thought an iceberg sank the titanic.

The government should have stopped them from building a boat. Its the governments fault they did not cause global warming to make sure no icebergs were in the way. DUH! :cool:

torchbearer
10-11-2008, 02:45 PM
The government should have stopped them from building a boat. Its the governments fault they did not cause global warming to make sure no icebergs were in the way. DUH! :cool:

They should have outlawed all transport via the atlantic.
That would have stopped all of the deaths at sea.

Truth Warrior
10-11-2008, 02:47 PM
Human arrogance, hubris and stupidity sank the Titanic.<IMHO>

torchbearer
10-11-2008, 02:48 PM
Human arrogance, hubris and stupidity sank the Titanic.<IMHO>

We should have just stayed in the trees.

Truth Warrior
10-11-2008, 02:52 PM
We should have just stayed in the trees. Some members of the species should.<IMHO> ;)

torchbearer
10-11-2008, 02:56 PM
Some members of the species should.<IMHO> ;)

We'd still have your precious anarchy had we stayed there.
I thought you'd enjoy your own branch somewhere in africa.
I don't mean to imply that you own that branch, because a mob of fellow, self-important monkeys could remove you from the branch.
But it would have staved off all the complexities we face today, and most important, the hubris of the ruling self-important monkeys.
Though it may have happened anyway in the jungle eventually.

I would have been a self-important monkey that left for the north eventually.
The other monkeys stink.

danberkeley
10-11-2008, 03:10 PM
The RMS Titanic had big-government bureaucracy written all over it. Literately, "RMS" is an abbreviation for "Royal Mail Ship". According to Wiki, "Having the title "RMS" was seen as a mark of quality and a competitive advantage, because the mail had to be on time. In the 1860 CDSPCo contract there was a penalty clause of £1 1s 4d for every minute's delay." The RMS Titanic WAS regulated. BTW, I wonder happened to all that mail.

torchbearer
10-11-2008, 03:13 PM
The RMS Titanic had big-government bureaucracy written all over it. Literately, "RMS" is an abbreviation for "Royal Mail Ship". According to Wiki, "Having the title "RMS" was seen as a mark of quality and a competitive advantage, because the mail had to be on time. In the 1860 CDSPCo contract there was a penalty clause of £1 1s 4d for every minute's delay." The RMS Titanic WAS regulated. BTW, I wonder happened to all that mail.

So had there been no iceberg, the ship would have still sunk?

Truth Warrior
10-11-2008, 03:16 PM
We'd still have your precious anarchy had we stayed there.
I thought you'd enjoy your own branch somewhere in africa.
I don't mean to imply that you own that branch, because a mob of fellow, self-important monkeys could remove you from the branch.
But it would have staved off all the complexities we face today, and most important, the hubris of the ruling self-important monkeys.
Though it may have happened anyway in the jungle eventually.

I would have been a self-important monkey that left for the north eventually.
The other monkeys stink.
Nope the politicians and churchmen should have just stayed in the trees, as the authoritarian apes, savages and barbarians they still are.

danberkeley
10-11-2008, 03:28 PM
So had there been no iceberg, the ship would have still sunk?

Huh? My point was that the ship was regulated. Therefore, the ship could not have sunk because deregulation.

anaconda
10-11-2008, 03:30 PM
Sail at your own risk. They should have let the free market adjust. Ships would have installed and advertised about their extensive life boat accommodations.

damania
10-13-2008, 03:34 AM
I think you guys have missed the boat on this one.

Conza88
10-13-2008, 03:50 AM
I think you guys have missed the boat on this one.

I think blaming the sinking of the titanic on deregulation, is exactly the same as blaming this financial crisis on deregulation.

It is, absolutely, fucking retarded - and devoid of all logic.

What is the FED? - Ultimate regulation of the market.

Well, it existed back then - Central Banks i.e in England + elsewhere.

Further regulation; governments... subsidies etc.. that's regulation / intervention.

So sick and fcken tired of regulation nazi's... go regulate your brains because they've come unhinged. :)

LandonCook
10-13-2008, 08:38 AM
"The US government further provided him with substantial tax cuts and subsidies. The only private company to resist Morgan’s takeover, Cunard Shipping, was promptly subsidized by the British government. J. P. Morgan was given the financial backing and the freedom to do whatever he wanted, unhindered by any oversight or liability."

There is the problem. More government intervention.

Original_Intent
10-13-2008, 08:46 AM
Deregulation did not cause the current crisis. Government manipulation, Special interests, and the structure of our monetary system caused the current crisis.

Watch the video Money as Debt, the design of our system made the current crisis inevitable. It was a matter of when, not if.

danberkeley
10-13-2008, 10:24 AM
I think you guys have missed the boat on this one.

Good. At least we, unlike you, didn't sink with the ship. :D

danberkeley
10-15-2008, 11:46 PM
I guess I won this debate. Yay me! :D

damania
10-17-2008, 12:51 AM
Yes you won. You're so special!

rprprs
10-19-2008, 06:26 PM
Congratulations! And here is your reward...

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm139/rprprs/titanicdollar.jpg

Expatriate
10-19-2008, 08:25 PM
Did any of you actually read the original post before responding?