I'm Cheerin the Fall of the DOW!

[ghengis86]

DOW down 316pts @ 10:10 EST


WooooHooooo!

[rockjoa]

It was into the four digits at 8:05 ET

[JosephTheLibertarian]

DOW down 316pts @ 10:10 EST


WooooHooooo!

goodbye dow. for years I have never understood your jibberish. goodbye dow, goodbye forever.

[pacelli]

The 30 companies in the DOW are now down to 9976. More importantly, the 500 companies in the S&P are down 4.12% now. The S&P 500 has dropped 9% since congress started voting on the bailout.

[rbu]

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg128/standingroomonly/40a/71-Jumping-for-Joy.jpg

[rockandrollsouls]

DOW down 316pts @ 10:10 EST


WooooHooooo!

Then you are a fucking moron. A market crash is not good for anyone. You should be hoping and praying we make it out of this with some sort of positive.

[micahnelson]

No matter what they do or say, the market is still over.....



...9000.

[the biss]

Then you are a fucking moron. A market crash is not good for anyone. You made the whole point of RonPaulForums... that we need a change. No one ever expects change to be painless. Anytime change (good or bad) has occurred in the US on a macro level, it has been painful. I too, am a "fucking moron" as I cheer the fall of the Dow. I cheer the awakening of the American public to the state of our country's finances.

I, for one, welcome the coming of the financial crisis.

[StudentForPaul08]

FALL BABYLON FALL!

hahaha.

funny stuff. :cool:

[rockandrollsouls]

You made the whole point of RonPaulForums... that we need a change. No one ever expects change to be painless. Anytime change (good or bad) has occurred in the US on a macro level, it has been painful. I too, am a "fucking moron" as I cheer the fall of the Dow. I cheer the awakening of the American public to the state of our country's finances.

I, for one, welcome the coming of the financial crisis.

Change doesn't mean you cheer as people lose their jobs and livelihood to endure suffering. What about all the honest people that worked hard and are now exposed due to the bad decisions of a few? What if you lose YOUR job because of this? Will you still be cheering?

I will never welcome a financial crisis, and I don't think anyone who truly understands economics does. I welcome the liquidation of bad debt and cleansing of the system...but you should never be happy to see an economy crash and burn. You guys don't know what you're saying and it's sick...but that's where Karma comes in. When you can't afford the internet to make your asinine posts I'll know you'll be cheering in an unheated household with little or no food. You'll have what you wanted ;)

[roho76]

Wall Street will continue to fall and then they will try to pass another Bailout but this one will be twice as big. They will then tell us that this needs to pass quickly or Groundhogs will go back in their holes and we will be stuck in winter for ever costing each american hundreds of dollars in Keating costs (I mean heating costs, sorry) and then the Terrorists will win. Is that what you want, huh? Winning Terrorists?

Sorry that I have resorted to Sarcasm but I feel that's all I have for the next couple of hours till the coffee sets in.

[ghengis86]

Then you are a fucking moron. A market crash is not good for anyone. You should be hoping and praying we make it out of this with some sort of positive.

Fucking moron, huh? thanks for your insight and intellect. i'll remember that

[Conza88]

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg128/standingroomonly/40a/71-Jumping-for-Joy.jpg

LOL @ the guy in the orange shirt... he looks like he's doing some kind of dragon ball z move.. (please note: never watched teh show..)

[rockandrollsouls]

Fucking moron, huh? thanks for your insight and intellect. i'll remember that

Go back and read my other posts. You deserve every harsh word you get, buddy. You're not immune from a collapse, and most of the posts cheering a total failure are from little kids who live with their parents. Get a grip.

[micahnelson]

Go back and read my other posts. You deserve every harsh word you get, buddy. You're not immune from a collapse, and most of the posts cheering a total failure are from little kids who live with their parents. Get a grip.

RockandRollSouls: If you disagree with him, you live with your parents.

[Magsec]

Wow, -450 and dropping.

[slacker921]

I don't cheer it.. it means pain for friends and family. But it's reality. It's the result of decades of poor failed economic policy and it looks like there's nothing to stop the collapse.

But I don't fear what's happening on Wall Street. My fear is what will be presented to the scared public as a means to "save" everything. The bailout was one tool that will be used. There will be others and history has shown that the collapse itself isn't what causes the most damage. If you think that this will cause the public to suddenly start listening to people like Ron Paul you're deluded. They'll listen to the TV, and the TV will tell them we need more government oversight and control of our lives. It's a sad day...

[rockandrollsouls]

RockandRollSouls: If you disagree with him, you live with your parents.

No. Fact of the matter is, I'm not filthy rich. I don't think you are either. I don't think any of you could comfortably survive a crash of the market....yet you are so foolish as to cheer it. "Oh please crash just so I can say I was right!" It is an absolutely asinine, foolish, and sick statement to make. People are losing their jobs, and you could to. "Oh, please! Crash!"

You know what happens in times like this? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the government gets bigger. That's what you want, huh?

[rockandrollsouls]

I don't cheer it.. it means pain for friends and family. But it's reality. It's the result of decades of poor failed economic policy and it looks like there's nothing to stop the collapse.

My fear though isn't what's happening on Wall Street. My fear is what will be presented to the scared public as a means to "save" everything. The bailout was one tool that will be used. There will be others and history has shown that the collapse itself isn't what causes the most damage. If you think that this will cause the public to suddenly start listening to people like Ron Paul you're deluded. They'll listen to the TV, and the TV will tell them we need more government oversight and control of our lives. It's a sad day...

It is reality, but you never hope for something like that. It's really very sad....and I think people that spend their entire day here have lost touch with reality.

[micahnelson]

You know what happens in times like this? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the government gets bigger. That's what you want, huh?

RockandRollSouls: If you disagree with him, you want the government to get bigger, the rich to get richer, and the poor to get poorer.

[rbu]

-570

[rockandrollsouls]

RockandRollSouls: If you disagree with him, you want the government to get bigger, the rich to get richer, and the poor to get poorer.

Provide an instance such as this where the government has not used it as a power grab and the income gap has not increased.

[ghengis86]

Change doesn't mean you cheer as people lose their jobs and livelihood to endure suffering. What about all the honest people that worked hard and are now exposed due to the bad decisions of a few? What if you lose YOUR job because of this? Will you still be cheering?

I will never welcome a financial crisis, and I don't think anyone who truly understands economics does. I welcome the liquidation of bad debt and cleansing of the system...but you should never be happy to see an economy crash and burn. You guys don't know what you're saying and it's sick...but that's where Karma comes in. When you can't afford the internet to make your asinine posts I'll know you'll be cheering in an unheated household with little or no food. You'll have what you wanted ;)

uh...my household is completely sustainable for at least a year, without any need to use fiat money to purchase heat or food. If you're taken the necessary precautions, and not bought that new plasma TeeVee, you wouldn't be worried about losing your job. Likewise, if you took the time to decrease your exposure to the risks in the market, you wouldn't be all too worried. Ignorance of workings of the world (financial or otherwise) is no excuse.

You think when people start losing their jobs they'll start to ask questions as to how there savings cannot sustain them for any significant amount of time? Or why their households are so wasteful? Or why they never thought to question their investments? I'm sure people will start to think about this when they are forced too. I chose to address these issues when I could do something about it.

[micahnelson]

Provide an instance such as this where the government has not used it as a power grab and the income gap has not increased.

I didn't say I was for or against the crash. I think its necessary and hope we all come through it alright. You're probably right, in that the government uses everything from Terrorism, Hurricanes, and green house gasses to seize more power.

I just don't like your tone with people and I wanted to point it out. Honestly, I'm trying to get into your sig as well. =)

[rockandrollsouls]

uh...my household is completely sustainable for at least a year, without any need to use fiat money to purchase heat or food. If you're taken the necessary precautions, and not bought that new plasma TeeVee, you wouldn't be worried about losing your job. Likewise, if you took the time to decrease your exposure to the risks in the market, you wouldn't be all too worried. Ignorance of workings of the world (financial or otherwise) is no excuse.

You think when people start losing their jobs they'll start to ask questions as to how there savings cannot sustain them for any significant amount of time? Or why their households are so wasteful? Or why they never thought to question their investments? I'm sure people will start to think about this when they are forced too. I chose to address these issues when I could do something about it.

You don't know what it's like to live through a depression....it's a bit more difficult than you think, friend. And, I'm well off. I will be fine, but I'm still not immune. You are not immune. And, finally, the saddest are those that are hardly aware of it. Not everyone is blessed with financial savvy.

Something you should root for? I don't think so.

[Tarabell952]

Ugh.. There's no need to get too upset with people hoping for a major crash. It's not like their desires make it any more likely to occur. The stock market responds to factors other than a few people's hope about what it will or will not do. I can hope the stock market will lose 2,000 points if I so choose, and that choice has absolutely no effect on what happens. So no real need to feel guilty. But yeah stock market crashes are horrible. I just hope that maybe it will wake some people up.

[ThePieSwindler]

Cool, stocks are on sale again today!

[rbu]

We now begin to see those who have built there life around the almighty dollar, the more more more give me more type of people, coming out to play.

[bubbleboy]

I feel giddy, and guilty for feeling giddy. Maybe I feel vindicated. Maybe its because capitalism is working.

[rockandrollsouls]

Ugh.. There's no need to get too upset with people hoping for a major crash. It's not like their desires make it any more likely to occur. The stock market responds to factors other than a few people's hope about what it will or will not do. I can hope the stock market will lose 2,000 points if I so choose, and that choice has absolutely no effect on what happens. So no real need to feel guilty. But yeah stock market crashes are horrible. I just hope that maybe it will wake some people up.

Hey, they can hope for whatever they want...but I have my freedom of speech to call them out on it. Just as much as they can hope for job loss, pain, and suffering, I can hope they rot in a ditch.

[ghengis86]

You don't know what it's like to live through a depression....it's a bit more difficult than you think, friend. And, I'm well off. I will be fine, but I'm still not immune. You are not immune. And, finally, the saddest are those that are hardly aware of it. Not everyone is blessed with financial savvy.

Something you should root for? I don't think so.

Do you know what its like to live through a depression? Unless you're >70years old, I doubt you're speaking on first hand experience ("but grandma told me and I've read books!").

No I may not be completel immune too, but I'll bet anybody I'd fare better than 99% of the population due to some simple preparation. I don't know what arbitrary salary dems one "well off", but I make less than $40K and consider myself extremely well off.

No, I'm not rooting for the demise of my fellow citizens; this is where you are mistaken (and I'll concede that I did not make this clear in my original post). I'm cheering for the fall of our fiat money system. I'm cheering the failure of the charade that took place last week in washington. I'm rooting for a collapse of the central banking/planning policies of our government. That 'innocent' citizens will be affected is but a symptom of their refusal to participate in their own countries governance. I am sorry they didn't awake from their sleep before their world crashed around them. I cheer the fall of government, not the fall of my fellow man.

[EvilNight]

Heh. Just called my folks back home and told them to buy the heating oil now while it's still relatively cheap, and to stock the freezer completely with venison come this deer season. Since I warned them about this a year ago, they listened quite intently today. ;)

Good times to purge the crap from the market and later from the country. I wonder if they'll hit the circuit breaker today. So far they are well on their way.

[brandon]

Then you are a fucking moron. A market crash is not good for anyone. You should be hoping and praying we make it out of this with some sort of positive.

Seriously.

My stubborn 65 year old father who has refused to heed my advice is losing his life savings.

And you assholes are cheering?

Fuck you

[rockandrollsouls]

Do you know what its like to live through a depression? Unless you're >70years old, I doubt you're speaking on first hand experience ("but grandma told me and I've read books!").

No I may not be completel immune too, but I'll bet anybody I'd fare better than 99% of the population due to some simple preparation. I don't know what arbitrary salary dems one "well off", but I make less than $40K and consider myself extremely well off.

No, I'm not rooting for the demise of my fellow citizens; this is where you are mistaken (and I'll concede that I did not make this clear in my original post). I'm cheering for the fall of our fiat money system. I'm cheering the failure of the charade that took place last week in washington. I'm rooting for a collapse of the central banking/planning policies of our government. That 'innocent' citizens will be affected is but a symptom of their refusal to participate in their own countries governance. I am sorry they didn't awake from their sleep before their world crashed around them. I cheer the fall of government, not the fall of my fellow man.


A market crash doesn't even mean all bad debt is being liquidated, buddy. Plenty of strong, profitable companies will be sold off, too. It's a total loss of confidence and it is the WORST way to liquidate bad debt.

Yates, I'm sorry you grandfather is going through that...but I'm sure people here will change their tune when it happens to them.

[brandon]

but I'm sure people here will change their tune when it happens to them.

Yea...I cant believe people would cheer something like this. It is utterly insane. Even if they have no money in the markets or US dollars, the crash is STILL going to effect them. I guess they are too shortsighted to see though.

[wizardwatson]

First you have to decide whether an economic collapse is necessary for a grassroots revolution to take place. I think it is. Second you have to look at it strategically. In my opinion, the longer the collapse takes place, the more the enemy (current system operators) have to organize and supress a grassroots revolution. Conversely, the faster it happens, the easier it will be for grassroots organization to happen, and the less chance that the tools they would use (internet and other communication systems like phones) will be adversely affected.

So I am rooting for a hard and fast crash.

As far as people suffering goes. Big whip. A million Iraqi's dead after countless others starved to death with sanctions. America consuming 80% of worlds savings to keep its epitome-of-malinvestment-insane-consumer-economy pumping away. Dead Vietnamese for no reason. Dead troops for no reason. Carcinogens in the food and water. Government financed drug war that benefits both government and drug cartels. Africa starving to death. IMF propping up ruthless dictatorial regimes. The list goes on and on.

So while blindly wishing for disaster may be childish. Please don't bloviate about Americans and their ill-gotten 401k's and their college fund. War always comes home. And American's have been far to complicit and enabling as a whole and don't deserve any more or less than the starving Africans.

We need to right the system. The faster the better.

[rockandrollsouls]

First you have to decide whether an economic collapse is necessary for a grassroots revolution to take place. I think it is. Second you have to look at it strategically. In my opinion, the longer the collapse takes place, the more the enemy (current system operators) have to organize and supress a grassroots revolution. Conversely, the faster it happens, the easier it will be for grassroots organization to happen, and the less chance that the tools they would use (internet and other communication systems like phones) will be adversely affected.

So I am rooting for a hard and fast crash.

As far as people suffering goes. Big whip. A million Iraqi's dead after countless others starved to death with sanctions. America consuming 80% of worlds savings to keep its epitome-of-malinvestment-insane-consumer-economy pumping away. Dead Vietnamese for no reason. Dead troops for no reason. Carcinogens in the food and water. Government financed drug war that benefits both government and drug cartels. Africa starving to death. IMF propping up ruthless dictatorial regimes. The list goes on and on.

So while blindly wishing for disaster may be childish. Please don't bloviate about Americans and their ill-gotten 401k's and their college fund. War always comes home. And American's have been far to complicit and enabling as a whole and don't deserve any more or less than the starving Africans.

We need to right the system. The faster the better.

You should read up on some history....and I don't mean it offensively. If anything, this prevents a grassroots revolution. Whenever a crisis like this takes place it's used as a massive power grab for the government...we will be fighting more regulation, intervention, abuse of power, and that's if we are lucky enough to still have some of our civil liberties at the end of this. This is a major setback.

[Mahkato]

Market crashes mean that the banks can buy up assets for pennies on the dollar, as they did during the Depression, and they mean that people will call for more intervention.

[dawnbt]

Just think, if we didn't hurry and rush through the bailout, the market would drop! Good thing they did. Oh, my bad, it's dropping anyway.

[ghengis86]

I don't get it; why do you think I'm cheering your father's demise? Or anyone elses for that matter? The collapse of our financial markets in the face of all the government interventions and subsidies is a wonderous thing to behold.

[RickyJ]

Just think, if we didn't hurry and rush through the bailout, the market would drop! Good thing they did. Oh, my bad, it's dropping anyway.

So now the congress critters can pass a new bill canceling the bailout.

But we all know they won't do that.

[brandon]

You should read up on some history....and I don't mean it offensively. If anything, this prevents a grassroots revolution. Whenever a crisis like this takes place it's used as a massive power grab for the government...we will be fighting more regulation, intervention, abuse of power, and that's if we are lucky enough to still have some of our civil liberties at the end of this. This is a major setback.

Exactly.

Just look at the expansion of the government under FDR following the first great depression.

And there is nothing to indicate things will be any different this time. We are only in the beginning of the crash and the government already passed this 700b bailout plan. The media is controlled now just as it was a year ago, and TPTB are still able to make the general public believe and support anything that they want. Our sphere of influence is extremely limited.

Sure, maybe the history books will show that we were right all along. A future generation may look back at us and realize we were the people claiming the earth orbited the sun while the status quo was yelling "blasphemy!" That doesn't help us now though.

[EvilNight]

I'd also like to point out for people that we have no frame of reference AT ALL for how fast the reorganization of the market will take place after the collapse. Historically it has always taken a long time, however, THIS time for the first time we have a fast, well connected economy with computers in the mix. Communication happens so much faster these days than ever before. This will have an effect on the market. I think it means we will fall faster, but bounce back faster as well.

Just take Ron's campaign as an example. Something like that would have been impossible to organize so quickly without modern communications. You can pat yourselves on the back for the amount of time Ron has been getting in the media these days. The market will be no different. People can use these tools independently to organize their communities and local economies as well.

[Join The Paul Side]

I think the Market is showing Bush, Paulson, Bernanke, and Congress that it is more powerful than their 'Bailout' and regardless of what they do it will correct itself. :cool:

[rockandrollsouls]

I don't get it; why do you think I'm cheering your father's demise? Or anyone elses for that matter? The collapse of our financial markets in the face of all the government interventions and subsidies is a wonderous thing to behold.

Hardly. Look at what it gained the biggest socialist in the history of our country....the title as "One of the Best Presidents" the US has had..mistakenly of course. History shows that this has always been detrimental to freedom.

Wondrous? Maybe to you at this point in time....certainly not in the long run.

[NEPA_Revolution]

Burn Baby Burn!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-opY4qcidFk

[hopeforamerica]

Exactly.

Just look at the expansion of the government under FDR following the first great depression.

And there is nothing to indicate things will be any different this time. We are only in the beginning of the crash and the government already passed this 700b bailout plan. The media is controlled now just as it was a year ago, and TPTB are still able to make the general public believe and support anything that they want. Our sphere of influence is extremely limited.

My only hope is that we have enough people that are awake to help prevent the power grabs!!! The difference between now and then is we have the internet (pray we have it for a long time!) When I look at the comments on articles about the crash, I'm happy to see that most people understand that the bailout was a terrible thing. Keep on educating as many people as you can! We need to fight as hard as we can.

[rockandrollsouls]

I'd also like to point out for people that we have no frame of reference AT ALL for how fast the reorganization of the market will take place after the collapse. Historically it has always taken a long time, however, THIS time for the first time we have a fast, well connected economy with computers in the mix. Communication happens so much faster these days than ever before. This will have an effect on the market. I think it means we will fall faster, but bounce back faster as well.

Just take Ron's campaign as an example. Something like that would have been impossible to organize so quickly without modern communications. You can pat yourselves on the back for the amount of time Ron has been getting in the media these days. The market will be no different. People can use these tools independently to organize their communities and local economies as well.

You don't have any evidence to show it will be fast. You do not know what you are talking about. They've already introduced more government intervention, and that always slows down a recovery. Ron even said it himself....before that bill passed he said it would "Guarantee" a 10 year depression! That's not to be taken lightly!

[EvilNight]

You don't have any evidence to show it will be fast. You do not know what you are talking about. They've already introduced more government intervention, and that always slows down a recovery. Ron even said it himself....before that bill passed he said it would "Guarantee" a 10 year depression! That's not to be taken lightly!

All I'm saying is that whatever happens, the time scale will be compressed because of modern communications. I've watched it happen all my life in every single industry ever touched by computing and communications technology. The market will be no different. If Ron says a 10 year depression, communications will reduce that by a substantial amount. My own guess would be 2-3 years but I've no basis for that other than what I've seen happen in other industries. The only thing I can say for sure is that it will make a visible difference, and you'll be reading articles about it when people begin to study these times after we're through it all. It's new, and it's interesting, and there will be new lessons learned from it.

[rockandrollsouls]

All I'm saying is that whatever happens, the time scale will be compressed because of modern communications. I've watched it happen all my life in every single industry ever touched by computing and communications technology. The market will be no different. If Ron says a 10 year depression, communications will reduce that by a substantial amount. My own guess would be 2-3 years but I've no basis for that other than what I've seen happen in other industries. The only thing I can say for sure is that it will make a visible difference, and you'll be reading articles about it when people begin to study these times after we're through it all.

It has nothing to do with communications and everything to do with government intervention. You are talking nonsense with nothing to back it up.

[RonPaulCentral]

Go back and read my other posts. You deserve every harsh word you get, buddy. You're not immune from a collapse, and most of the posts cheering a total failure are from little kids who live with their parents. Get a grip.

I am not a kid living with my parents. This needs to happen... I am for a complete crash.

[dsentell]

The market is going to crash, I believe that most of us know and believe that.

Yes, whether the crash is today or next year, it is going to be very painful for everyone.

I, for one, believe that we are going to have to hit bottom for the reset button to be pushed and for things to start to turn around.

IMO, the sooner the crash, the sooner the turnaround. For that reason, I, too, am cheering the crash.

[Gin]

I think the point in the cheering here is not for the demise of everyday Americans so much as hoping it will awaken more Americans to what our Government is up to...

They had to rush the bailout or the markets would drop 2000 points... ok so they passed the stupid bailout and now look... the markets are dropping in record numbers... so we taxpayers owe 850 billion dollars and still our life savings is being lost.... go figure...

As far as Brandon your Grandfather.. I understand.. My dad died this past May and all that he left for my mom was in investments... she was a stay at home mom..she has no pension... she is losing her livelihood. I worry about her.. but I know the quicker this happens, the quicker it can come back.. in the meantime.. pull what savings you can.. so you have $$$ needed for the next 5-10 yrs and ride the rest...

As far as me.. I am already poor and just lost my job... but I would rather this happen sooner than later... get it over with already.... let's get someone in office that knows what they are doing... if it's so important that the big bankers on wall street get bailed out... how about the billionaires do it?? hey what a novel thought.

[wizardwatson]

You should read up on some history....and I don't mean it offensively. If anything, this prevents a grassroots revolution. Whenever a crisis like this takes place it's used as a massive power grab for the government...we will be fighting more regulation, intervention, abuse of power, and that's if we are lucky enough to still have some of our civil liberties at the end of this. This is a major setback.

Well, I guess, my angle is that the faster it happens, the more out in the open the State's methods would be. And my hope is that more people would see it for what it is. Should have put a disclaimer (IMHO) on the whole post, but I still think a gradual crash would be worse.

As far as power-grabbing. I think Oct-3 was the last bit of power they needed. The grabbing has already happened. Now it is about when and how they will use it. Incrementally, or forcefully and all-at-once.

Additionally, if a major Argentina-style collapse were to happen within say a few months, the US simply doesn't have the forces to quarantine the US population in some kind of martial law scenario. My basic thinking is that we need market chaos/economic chaos before those forces are in place.

But I know this argument is not air-tight and you could argue it the other way. But after the failure of the RP campaign (though a success in many ways) I really am having my doubts that a revolution of sound money and liberty is going to happen on this planet without the seeds chaos and the fertilizer of a lot of sweat and tears.

[rockandrollsouls]

Guys, you're forgetting one thing. Since when has any crisis warded off government? It's only magnified it exponentially.

Saying, "I think it will recover more quickly" or "We can start to work once it crashes" is nonsense. That's never been the case.

[EvilNight]

It has nothing to do with communications and everything to do with government intervention. You are talking nonsense with nothing to back it up.

The government is merely one facet of these events. The damage they do is irrelevant to my point - it won't be as bad as it would have been without modern communications.

[rbu]

It's like a drug addict. We have to hit bottom before it will turn around. Very few addicts decide to change before they hit bottom, whatever their individual bottom is.

[dsentell]

It's like a drug addict. We have to hit bottom before it will turn around. Very few addicts decide to change before they hit bottom, whatever their individual bottom is.

Exactly.

Don't grab a knife while it is falling through the air, let it hit the ground, then pick it up.

[klamath]

First you have to decide whether an economic collapse is necessary for a grassroots revolution to take place. I think it is. Second you have to look at it strategically. In my opinion, the longer the collapse takes place, the more the enemy (current system operators) have to organize and supress a grassroots revolution. Conversely, the faster it happens, the easier it will be for grassroots organization to happen, and the less chance that the tools they would use (internet and other communication systems like phones) will be adversely affected.

So I am rooting for a hard and fast crash.

As far as people suffering goes. Big whip. A million Iraqi's dead after countless others starved to death with sanctions. America consuming 80% of worlds savings to keep its epitome-of-malinvestment-insane-consumer-economy pumping away. Dead Vietnamese for no reason. Dead troops for no reason. Carcinogens in the food and water. Government financed drug war that benefits both government and drug cartels. Africa starving to death. IMF propping up ruthless dictatorial regimes. The list goes on and on.

So while blindly wishing for disaster may be childish. Please don't bloviate about Americans and their ill-gotten 401k's and their college fund. War always comes home. And American's have been far to complicit and enabling as a whole and don't deserve any more or less than the starving Africans.

We need to right the system. The faster the better.

In case you haven't noticed, this is world wide, from Iceland to brazil not just America. When there is a world wide economic crisis governments start major wars, not little bitty ones like Iraq.

[heavenlyboy34]

Then you are a fucking moron. A market crash is not good for anyone. You should be hoping and praying we make it out of this with some sort of positive.

I must politely disagree with you. In the long term, a crash/correction is a natural part of our "mixed" economy. If you do the reading suggestions that have been made in the depression reader and so on, you'll get a better understanding of this. The current crash is a direct result of government's moving away from laissez faire to socialism and fascism.

~heavenlyboy~

[ihsv]

I think the only redeeming aspect of the stock market sailing off the cliff right now is that it shows the bailout to be ineffectual, so long as it continues to drop over the coming days. If it starts going back up, then the bailout will be hailed as a success.

All in all, this isn't a good thing. What this means is the rapid ushering in of Martial Law, and we have no time left to prepare or spread the word. I believe we're headed for a period of suffering unequaled in the history of the world. And while I understand people's hope that this may wake Amerika up, I have a sinking feeling that those who have engineered this collapse have considered that and put in place appropriate precautions.

The majority of Amerikans haven't prepared for this, and the starving, confused, materialistly-soft masses are ill-prepared or equiped to change things. They will be ripe for any propoganda passed their way by the "authorities", and will willingly consent to whatever conditions are imposed to "keep them safe". The necessities of life will become more important than ideology, liberty, or even the constitution.

Just my two cents

[wizardwatson]

In case you haven't noticed, this is world wide, from Iceland to brazil not just America. When there is a world wide economic crisis governments start major wars, not little bitty ones like Iraq.

I understand that. My point is only that I feel, by restoring the status quo there is less chance of a needed revolution. The status quo only feeds the various State mechanisms around the world and they only get bigger. The harder and faster the correction, the more damaging to the state.

Of course the state will lash out if it is injured or its power is in jeopardy. And I understand the ramifications. But I myself am beyond believing that we can change the State internally, whether its here in Iceland or Brazil. I think the model is broken. It must be allowed to implode.

Propping it up for safety's sake comes at the expense of liberty.

[parke]

be careful what you wish for..

[ARealConservative]

I must politely disagree with you. In the long term, a crash/correction is a natural part of our "mixed" economy. If you do the reading suggestions that have been made in the depression reader and so on, you'll get a better understanding of this. The current crash is a direct result of government's moving away from laissez faire to socialism and fascism.

~heavenlyboy~

If you were to study history, you would find that government gets more powerful with each and every calamity.

All this crash will do is scare people into voluntarily giving up more of their freedoms in the name of security.

[rockandrollsouls]

If you were to study history, you would find that government gets more powerful with each and every calamity.

All this crash will do is scare people into voluntarily giving up more of their freedoms in the name of security.

I've said that numerous times, but people don't listen and say what they think will happen in their estimation. Just go browse a couple pages back. We have sheep among us :rolleyes:

[Ninja Homer]

You should read up on some history....and I don't mean it offensively. If anything, this prevents a grassroots revolution. Whenever a crisis like this takes place it's used as a massive power grab for the government...we will be fighting more regulation, intervention, abuse of power, and that's if we are lucky enough to still have some of our civil liberties at the end of this. This is a major setback.

What history are you referring to? I don't think this is just a simple stock market crash, or even the Great Depression. This is the falling of an empire that spread itself too thin on credit backed up by nothing. Throughout history, this is how all empires end. All governments become corrupt within about 200 years, and then it is up to the people to rise up and remove the corruption.

I'm definitely not cheering this, but as in almost every situation, there's a positive side to go along with the negative. Millions of people are now waking up to what we've been trying to tell them for so long. I think the federal government has gone beyond the point of repair. If we want to live in a free country, the federal government has to collapse and the people need to rise up and take their country and liberty back.

It has never been more important to spread the message. Explain to people why this is happening, and more importantly, what we need to do to fix it. If there's a complete collapse, we're going to need all the people we can get to restore a sound government.

[Cleaner44]

Then you are a fucking moron. A market crash is not good for anyone. You should be hoping and praying we make it out of this with some sort of positive.

You are the moron! I am making a killing from this crash. Every 1% the market goes down, my investment goes up 2%. Not to mention that we need to collapse this bubble and get back to sound money.

[rockandrollsouls]

You are the moron! I am making a killing from this crash. Every 1% the market goes down, my investment goes up 2%. Not to mention that we need to collapse this bubble and get back to sound money.

I daytrade for income...I've already made a sizable amount of cash if you've read my posts...and I'm making a lot more than 2%. Doesn't mean I'm hoping it crashes, even if I make money on it. How much is that money worth when no one is willing to take it?

[nbhadja]

Then you are a fucking moron. A market crash is not good for anyone. You should be hoping and praying we make it out of this with some sort of positive.

The market WILL CRASH GUARANTEED. It is just a matter of when. The sooner the market crashes, the easier it will be for us to take over.

This is great news as it shows once again that the bailout only makes things worse.

[rockandrollsouls]

The market WILL CRASH GUARANTEED. It is just a matter of when. The sooner the market crashes, the easier it will be for us to take over.

This is great news as it shows once again that the bailout only makes things worse.

Another college kid with no grip on money or reality....

It's far from great news.

[nbhadja]

Change doesn't mean you cheer as people lose their jobs and livelihood to endure suffering. What about all the honest people that worked hard and are now exposed due to the bad decisions of a few? What if you lose YOUR job because of this? Will you still be cheering?

I will never welcome a financial crisis, and I don't think anyone who truly understands economics does. I welcome the liquidation of bad debt and cleansing of the system...but you should never be happy to see an economy crash and burn. You guys don't know what you're saying and it's sick...but that's where Karma comes in. When you can't afford the internet to make your asinine posts I'll know you'll be cheering in an unheated household with little or no food. You'll have what you wanted ;)

Unfortunately that will have to happen in this change. A one year recession vs a 10 year depression. The government created this mess and there is no way to avoid it but I would easily pick the one year recession over the 10 year depression.

[werdd]

Another college kid with no grip on money or reality....

It's far from great news.

What, the fall and crash of our fiat money system? The realization that all currency backed by debt has historically failed, and will always fail? The acceptance of the austrian school of economics?

Im cautiously optimistic, because of the nature of our goverment.

But i think it is both necessary and inevitable.

[rockandrollsouls]

Unfortunately that will have to happen in this change. A one year recession vs a 10 year depression. The government created this mess and there is no way to avoid it but I would easily pick the one year recession over the 10 year depression.

So you think a 10 year depression is good? Ron himself has said the crashing of the markets is not good. It's not necessary. Liquidation of bad debt is necessary, but you don't need to destroy an economy to do that.

[ghengis86]

If you were to study history, you would find that government gets more powerful with each and every calamity.

All this crash will do is scare people into voluntarily giving up more of their freedoms in the name of security.

okay, I get Rockandrolls' point and yours as well; stock market crash leads to more government. is there anything that leads to less government? what about the financial distress of taxation that was imposed on the colonists? wasn't it king georges expansion of goverance over the colonists that stoked the revolutionary fires? And what about the economic boom following the war of 1812 and napolenonic wars? In this time the Second Bank of the United States was charted, even though there was no recession.


but while i'm looking for more counter examples, could you provide a support example with any of these crashes (greater than 37% decrease in DJIA value):

1901-1903
1906-1907
1916-1917
1973-1974
2000-2002

[rockandrollsouls]

What, the fall and crash of our fiat money system? The realization that all currency backed by debt has historically failed, and will always fail? The acceptance of the austrian school of economics?

Im cautiously optimistic, because of the nature of our goverment.

But i think it is both necessary and inevitable.

Another kid with no grasp of reality :rolleyes:


It seems to me those that understand economics and deal with it in their day to day life are the ones that are against the crash, while those here that think they know it because they here Ron talk about it are cheering for a crash.

[Dorfsmith]

The crash is going to happen either way. Some will be happy and some will be sad. How we feel is not going to change anything in the end. :D

[rockandrollsouls]

Werdd and nbhadja, let me ask you this. Can you take care of yourselves? Are you living on your own, or are you still living off mommy and daddy? If the latter is true, I wouldn't be hoping for a crash...you guys should be the last to talk.

[rockandrollsouls]

The crash is going to happen either way. Some will be happy and some will be sad. It's not going to change anything in the end. :D

You're spot on. People here think the crash will finally shake the government off and it's exactly the opposite. We will be fighting a harder fight. How many members of congress have you heard say what Ron does? Certainly not the majority. They want MORE government.

[nbhadja]

So you think a 10 year depression is good? Ron himself has said the crashing of the markets is not good. It's not necessary. Liquidation of bad debt is necessary, but you don't need to destroy an economy to do that.

The government is hell bent on inflation still. The Fed just announced a 300 billion dollar "loan" today. It is going to happen sadly.

[werdd]

Another kid with no grasp of reality :rolleyes:


It seems to me those that understand economics and deal with it in their day to day life are the ones that are against the crash, while those here that think they know it because they here Ron talk about it are cheering for a crash.

Why is your supposed grasp of reality superior to mine?

It's going to happen, its going to hurt, its going to be bad. But im prepared, and anyonelse who understands what is going should be as well. It's not a big deal to me now that it is happening, i have been preparing myself mentally for this for years now.

But it is necessary, for the system to fail. You are taking the leeb perspective of this arguement.

[nbhadja]

Another college kid with no grip on money or reality....

It's far from great news.

Ron himself said that if the government does not interfere in the mess they created it would "just cause a 1 year recession, we would deal with it and move on." He has said that several times on TV lately.

[Dorfsmith]

You're spot on. People here think the crash will finally shake the government off and it's exactly the opposite. We will be fighting a harder fight. How many members of congress have you heard say what Ron does? Certainly not the majority. They want MORE government.

Well, actually I was saying that our emotions won't change anything in the end. As far as what will happen I think it will be one of two things. We change the system or the government "saves" us with the Amero or some other crap.

I am smiling as I watch stocks fall simply because all my Bush supporting friends know I'm thinking "I told you so" and I don't even have to say a word :D

[nbhadja]

Werdd and nbhadja, let me ask you this. Can you take care of yourselves? Are you living on your own, or are you still living off mommy and daddy? If the latter is true, I wouldn't be hoping for a crash...you guys should be the last to talk.

I will make it through fine and won't have any problems.

[rockandrollsouls]

Why is your supposed grasp of reality superior to mine?

It's going to happen, its going to hurt, its going to be bad. But im prepared, and anyonelse who understands what is going should be as well. It's not a big deal to me now that it is happening, i have been preparing myself mentally for this for years now.

But it is necessary, for the system to fail. You are taking the leeb perspective of this arguement.

You aren't prepared...you still live with your parents. Have you ever worked a day in your life?


My grasp is superior because I've studied it, I've practiced it, I've made money on it, and I've prepared for it. I'm still not naive enough to hope for a market meltdown.

[werdd]

You aren't prepared...you still live with your parents. Have you ever worked a day in your life?


My grasp is superior because I've studied it, I've practiced it, I've made money on it, and I've prepared for it. I'm still not naive enough to hope for a market meltdown.

I work in IT at a hospital, im probably in better shape than you.

[rockandrollsouls]

Ron himself said that if the government does not interfere in the mess they created it would "just cause a 1 year recession, we would deal with it and move on." He has said that several times on TV lately.

I'm aware but has he ever said he hopes for a market meltdown? Has he ever said it was necessary? Not once.

And, you might make it through fine because mommy and daddy are paying your tuition at a school, you're unemployed, and you don't have to work for a living. Give me a break. Your opinion has no merit.

[rockandrollsouls]

I work in IT at a hospital, im probably in better shape than you.

Doubtful, kid.

[werdd]

Doubtful, kid.

So what do you do mr professional?

[Cleaner44]

I daytrade for income...I've already made a sizable amount of cash if you've read my posts...and I'm making a lot more than 2%. Doesn't mean I'm hoping it crashes, even if I make money on it. How much is that money worth when no one is willing to take it?

And thus I buy PMs...

[werdd]

The difference between you and i is that you have bet a large sum of money on a failed system. I work in a field where people are always going to be sick, and people die without my help.

Your profession = illiquid.

And thus you are flaming me right now for stating reality.

[nobody's_hero]

The Ballad of Nathan Hale


The breezes went steadily through the tall pines,
A-saying "oh! hu-ush!" a-saying "oh! hu-ush!"
As stilly stole by a bold legion of horse,
For Hale in the bush, for Hale in the bush.

"Keep still!" said the thrush as she nestled her young,
In a nest by the road; in a nest by the road.
"For the tyrants are near, and with them appear
What bodes us no good, what bodes us no good."

The brave captain heard it, and thought of his home
In a cot by the brook; in a cot by the brook.
With mother and sister and memories dear,
He so gayly forsook; he so gayly forsook.

Cooling shades of the night were coming apace,
The tattoo had beat; the tattoo had beat.
The noble one sprang from his dark lurking-place,
To make his retreat; to make his retreat.

He warily trod on the dry rustling leaves.
As he passed through the wood; as he passed through the wood;
And silently gained his rude launch on the shore,
As she played with the flood; as she played with the flood.

The guards of the camp, on that dark, dreary night,
Had a murderous will; had a murderous will.
They took him and bore him afar from the shore,
To a hut on the hill; to a hut on the hill.

No mother was there, nor a friend who could cheer,
In that little stone cell; in that little stone cell.
But he trusted in love, from his Father above.
In his heart, all was well; in his heart, all was well.

An ominous owl, with his solemn bass voice,
Sat moaning hard by; sat moaning hard by:
"The tyrant's proud minions most gladly rejoice,
For he must soon die; for he must soon die."

The brave fellow told them, no thing he restrained,--
The cruel general! the cruel general!--
His errand from camp, of the ends to be gained,
And said that was all; and said that was all.

They took him and bound him and bore him away,
Down the hill's grassy side; down the hill's grassy side.
'Twas there the base hirelings, in royal array,
His cause did deride; his cause did deride.

Five minutes were given, short moments, no more,
For him to repent; for him to repent.
He prayed for his mother, he asked not another,
To Heaven he went; to Heaven he went.

The faith of a martyr the tragedy showed,
As he trod the last stage; as he trod the last stage.
And Britons will shudder at gallant Hales blood,
As his words do presage, as his words do presage.

"Thou pale king of terrors, thou life's gloomy foe,
Go frighten the slave; go frighten the slave;
Tell tyrants, to you their allegiance they owe.
No fears for the brave; no fears for the brave."

[nbhadja]

I'm aware but has he ever said he hopes for a market meltdown? Has he ever said it was necessary? Not once.

And, you might make it through fine because mommy and daddy are paying your tuition at a school, you're unemployed, and you don't have to work for a living. Give me a break. Your opinion has no merit.

No but you were just saying we can avoid it. Ron Paul himself thinks he cannot avoid it. I am just cheering on the progression.

While I am not financially independent, with the extra scholarship money I get from going to college I make 3000 dollars a year profit from it alone, 12000 total earned for 4 years of college.

Ron Paul's opinion does, and he seems to think there is no way out of it.

[rockandrollsouls]

The difference between you and i is that you have bet a large sum of money on a failed system. I work in a field where people are always going to be sick, and people die without my help.

Your profession = illiquid.

And thus you are flaming me right now for stating reality.

Are you a secretary :) You know, the kid they hire to fumble with the charts and take names?

Do you know what illiquid means? I made more at the open of the market then you've made in 3 months....but that's not the point. Unless you are living on your own and caring for yourself, you really don't have room to talk. Your under mommy and daddy's roof.

[Highland]

So you think a 10 year depression is good? Ron himself has said the crashing of the markets is not good. It's not necessary. Liquidation of bad debt is necessary, but you don't need to destroy an economy to do that.

qft....you guys who are cheering, should be praying. We don't need to send more negativity to an already bad situation. People will die from this and already have...it is not just about jobs and the Dow....it is about real people, regardless of mistakes...will be made desperate and their family will suffer from choices they did not make. So please stop being so irreverent during this horrible time. Please pray for the nation instead of laughing at it....how condescending and not what a Patriot would do. imho

[rockandrollsouls]

No but you were just saying we can avoid it. Ron Paul himself thinks he cannot avoid it. I am just cheering on the progression.

While I am not financially independent, with the extra scholarship money I get from going to college I make 3000 dollars a year profit from it alone, 12000 total earned for 4 years of college.

Ron Paul's opinion does, and he seems to think there is no way out of it.

We can avoid a 10 year depression with a 1 year recession...

3 grand a year, huh? Is that going to help you survive the crash of the market you are cheering for? Give me a break. Thank you for proving my point.

[pacelli]

By the time most people realize that Ron was right, it won't make any difference at all to their daily lives. The patriot gibberish about an economic depression "waking up" America to Ron Paul is immature. When people are struggling in meeting their basic needs, they won't have the resources to focus on politics or the internet (if it still exists).

[werdd]

Are you a secretary :) You know, the kid they hire to fumble with the charts and take names?

Do you know what illiquid means? I made more at the open of the market then you've made in 3 months....but that's not the point. Unless you are living on your own and caring for yourself, you really don't have room to talk. Your under mommy and daddy's roof.

Look up the definition of IT.

I was going to invest in a tech stock earlier this year. But luckily i am not half the dumbass you are.

Instead i invest in real assets. And were i the gambling asshole you are i would of made 50 bucks this morning.

Unfortunately, you cant just short real assets.

[ghengis86]

rockandrollsouls,

how would bad debt from mortgage securites, CDS's, etc. be liquidated without causing a major economic downturn? this will effect the whole economy regardless. Conversely, how will an economic downturn liquidate strong, profitable companies? what i'm saying is, what's the difference? what would the difference be if the economy as a whole tanks and the government gives itself more power (assuming there's more Paulson can take!) or just all 'bad debt' is liquidated which will affect every sector and the government still inflates, ushers in new regs, etc.?

what is the alternative? Its like we're both arguing miniscule points of the same failed monetary policy. isn't there a more likely chance that a power grab in the time of crisis will be seen for what it is, rather than letting the same status quo operate as usual, while all the time government continues to expand? how is business as usual going to usher in a revolution if people still have full stomachs and can watch american idol at night?

[tropicangela]

Hey even Ron Paul chuckles now and then when talking about the stupid Fed. It's to the point where we are laughing like mad people I think. There's nothing we can do about it but watch and educate.

[DFF]

The President's Working Group On Financial Markets (AKA "The Plunge Protection Team") as stepped up to bat: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27047568/

[werdd]

Rockandrollsouls is just mad he is going to lose his ass. And bashes realist, who have real jobs.

[tmg19103]

After so many years of government intervention and mindless greed, this crash is inevitable. It's not a good thing, but it is a necessary thing. More government power, regulation and control will come from this.

At the same time, for those who protected themsleves, new and different opportunities to invest will come about, as well as the opportunity to buy stocks for a baragin.

The question is will this be a one or two year thing or a ten year thing. Either way, the government and those who invested with greed instead of smarts don't get my sympathy in general, but it hits home when it hurts friends and family.

Like Brandon Yates, my 72 years dad laughed at me this summer when I told him to get into cash and gold. He only has a short time to live so it is not the end of the world for him, but I think he really wanted to help my sister's three kids out for college and now what is left will go to my mother as she will probably live into her 90's and she needs it.

A lot of people had been making killings the past ten years on inheritances. That is gone. It hurts in a lot of indirect ways.

I myself prepared for this. I own my primary home, vacation home and cars outright. I have cash saved to live modestly the rest of my life if I so choose (assuming we don't have a decade of hyperinflation). I got completely out of the stock market in July and am holding cash, gold, silver. Mostly cash - but if this keeps tanking I will get out of cash completely.

I view this crash as a necessary reaction to all the mistakes by government and Wall Street the past 20 years or so. I feel bad for those who did not see it coming.

I do feel vindicated for the very bearish postion I took in July and I feel there was nothing stopping this crash, but I get no joy out of it. I have friends and family members who are taking huge hits on investments and retirement savings and they are scared. They are leveraged and if they lose their jobs they are toast - and most have grade school kids. They are scared and while I can take comfort in my position, I feel terrible for others.

My next step, which I have not done yet, is to wait this out a week or two and if it gets worse, then I stock up on food, water and other living basics.

The only good thing to happen is that this has caused deflation and the price of food and oil are down - for now.

[Ninja Homer]

posting this again since you seem to have missed it


You should read up on some history....and I don't mean it offensively. If anything, this prevents a grassroots revolution. Whenever a crisis like this takes place it's used as a massive power grab for the government...we will be fighting more regulation, intervention, abuse of power, and that's if we are lucky enough to still have some of our civil liberties at the end of this. This is a major setback.

What history are you referring to? I don't think this is just a simple stock market crash, or even the Great Depression. This is the falling of an empire that spread itself too thin on credit backed up by nothing. Throughout history, this is how all empires end. All governments become corrupt within about 200 years, and then it is up to the people to rise up and remove the corruption.

I'm definitely not cheering this, but as in almost every situation, there's a positive side to go along with the negative. Millions of people are now waking up to what we've been trying to tell them for so long. I think the federal government has gone beyond the point of repair. If we want to live in a free country, the federal government has to collapse and the people need to rise up and take their country and liberty back.

It has never been more important to spread the message. Explain to people why this is happening, and more importantly, what we need to do to fix it. If there's a complete collapse, we're going to need all the people we can get to restore a sound government.

[ghengis86]

Rockandrollsouls is just mad he is going to lose his ass. And bashes realist, who have real jobs.

okay, now you're not making sense.

[rockandrollsouls]

Look up the definition of IT.

I was going to invest in a tech stock earlier this year. But luckily i am not half the dumbass you are.

Instead i invest in real assets. And were i the gambling asshole you are i would of made 50 bucks this morning.

Unfortunately, you cant just short real assets.

So you do fumble with hospital spreadsheets :D

What "real assets?" I guess your parents don't charge you rent. It must be nice to live rent free...cost free.

Who said I invested in a tech stock? Who said I invested in anything? Maybe I had puts on a particular index that is floundering today ;)

And, finally, stop trying to talk like you understand economics. Your sentences aren't making sense.

[rockandrollsouls]

posting this again since you seem to have missed it



What history are you referring to? I don't think this is just a simple stock market crash, or even the Great Depression. This is the falling of an empire that spread itself too thin on credit backed up by nothing. Throughout history, this is how all empires end. All governments become corrupt within about 200 years, and then it is up to the people to rise up and remove the corruption.

I'm definitely not cheering this, but as in almost every situation, there's a positive side to go along with the negative. Millions of people are now waking up to what we've been trying to tell them for so long. I think the federal government has gone beyond the point of repair. If we want to live in a free country, the federal government has to collapse and the people need to rise up and take their country and liberty back.

It has never been more important to spread the message. Explain to people why this is happening, and more importantly, what we need to do to fix it. If there's a complete collapse, we're going to need all the people we can get to restore a sound government.

Great Depression...I don't think you realize what came of that. Even recently, when things went sour the government stepped in. There isn't really a positive side to that...whenever things have gone down the tube we have had more government shoved down our throats. You don't really need a detailed history book for that....all you need to do is take a quick glance.

[Chabsfromcanada]

Well, one good thing may come of this. People will get their priorities straight, hopefully. Family will be first on peoples minds as this gets worse. I have a feeling fancy new shoes and fake tits wont be a big deal for a while. On that note, maybe here in Canada gay marriage and carbon taxes wont be frontpage stories..... One thing that does worry me though, in the past, what has followed recessions? War.

[nobody's_hero]

^^^^

If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom: and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that, too.

- W. Somerset Maugham

[tmg19103]

Well, one good thing may come of this. People will get their priorities straight, hopefully. Family will be first on peoples minds as this gets worse. I have a feeling fancy new shoes and fake tits wont be a big deal for a while. On that note, maybe here in Canada gay marriage and carbon taxes wont be frontpage stories..... One thing that does worry me though, in the past, what has followed recessions? War.

That does it. I don't think I can live without fake tits. This is now truly a meltdown beyond the obvious epic proportions.

[Unspun]

Cheering the market crash is cheering fascism. That's where this country is going if people start waking up and fleeing bad assets that have ran this economy for the last decade or so. If it's fascism you enjoy, then good for you. But, I for one, even though I'm in a fairly decent position, am not cheering the falling of the DOW.

Anyone who's losing their retirement I feel sorry for. Sorry if I have a little bit of moral conscience within me that can't help but feel bad for those who are going to now feel the pain.

[nbhadja]

We can avoid a 10 year depression with a 1 year recession...

3 grand a year, huh? Is that going to help you survive the crash of the market you are cheering for? Give me a break. Thank you for proving my point.

No but my dads hard work as a doctor and our savings will easily get us through it.

The American culture sadly lives pay check to pay check. They are gonna get hit really hard for it.
Asians on average will get hit less because of their savings culture.

[Unspun]

Well, one good thing may come of this. People will get their priorities straight, hopefully. Family will be first on peoples minds as this gets worse. I have a feeling fancy new shoes and fake tits wont be a big deal for a while. On that note, maybe here in Canada gay marriage and carbon taxes wont be frontpage stories..... One thing that does worry me though, in the past, what has followed recessions? War.

I sure hope so. People will be forced to live within their means. That's not a bad thing. But cheering a falling economy while the government continues to step in and intervene is not.

[Highland]

No but my dads hard work as a doctor and our savings will easily get us through it.

The American culture sadly lives pay check to pay check. They are gonna get hit really hard for it.
Asians on average will get hit less because of their savings culture.

you hope....don't be so sure....and so irreverent. Doctors do tend to pass on the " god" gene.....

[The Good Doctor]

Calculate the $50 oil with what the Dow still has to lose. I have read from two places that 7200 to 7000 for the Dow would be the bottom.


No matter what they do or say, the market is still over.....



...9000.

[The Good Doctor]

You are kidding right?

Screw these bastards. You knew they were going to blow out the economy anyway even if the bill passed.


It was into the four digits at 8:05 ET

[rockandrollsouls]

No but my dads hard work as a doctor and our savings will easily get us through it.

The American culture sadly lives pay check to pay check. They are gonna get hit really hard for it.
Asians on average will get hit less because of their savings culture.

You're the one that said YOU were well positioned. You don't work, you don't have any earned money, you just live off your parents. Again, your opinion is completely invalid.

[werdd]

So you do fumble with hospital spreadsheets :D

What "real assets?" I guess your parents don't charge you rent. It must be nice to live rent free...cost free.

Who said I invested in a tech stock? Who said I invested in anything? Maybe I had puts on a particular index that is floundering today ;)

And, finally, stop trying to talk like you understand economics. Your sentences aren't making sense.

Again, look up the definition of IT. If administrating health information servers in UNIX is fumbling chart's to you, then that is your problem.

Illiquid = not readily convertable into real currency.

Dollars are not convertable to anything real, unless you consider debt currency.

Your profession is illiquid because the medium you are using to invest, the dollar, is illiquid. Not readily convertable to anything but toilet paper.

While you are losing your ass, look at gold today.

And i was looking at a particular tech stock earlier this year, not you. AMD.

Thanks.

[nbhadja]

You're the one that said YOU were well positioned. You don't work, you don't have any earned money, you just live off your parents. Again, your opinion is completely invalid.

No I never said I worked, what were you reading. I just said I am in great position, and I am.

And when I graduate college and pass the CPA exam I will be alright.
My family has never lived pay check to pay check and never will. Savings is a priority. Just because people are going to suffer because they don't make as much and spend their money like crazy does not mean I will. Completely different people, completely different philosophies.

[rockandrollsouls]

Again, look up the definition of IT. If administrating health information servers in UNIX is fumbling chart's to you, then that is your problem.

Illiquid = not readily convertable into real currency.

Dollars are not convertable to anything real, unless you consider debt currency.

Your profession is illiquid because the medium you are using to invest, the dollar, is illiquid. Not readily convertable to anything but toilet paper.

While you are losing your ass, look at gold today.

And i was looking at a particular tech stock earlier this year, not you. AMD.

Thanks.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Again, thank you for proving my point.

[werdd]

The bright side, rockandrollsouls, is that when you have completely lost your ass and pulled out what you have, you will still have something to wipe your ass with.

[werdd]

You have no clue what you are talking about. Again, thank you for proving my point.

Please elaborate.

[Ninja Homer]

Great Depression...I don't think you realize what came of that. Even recently, when things went sour the government stepped in. There isn't really a positive side to that...whenever things have gone down the tube we have had more government shoved down our throats. You don't really need a detailed history book for that....all you need to do is take a quick glance.

I understand very well what came of the Great Depression, and I'm not disagreeing with you that if this turns out to be a depression the gov will step in and make things worse. What I'm saying, is that I think this will be much bigger than the Great Depression; it will be the collapse of an empire. To get a perspective on what may be happening, you have to look beyond US history, and look at what happens when empires collapse throughout world history.

Watch this video of Ron Paul talking about the bailout, and take note of what he says at about 3:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-9CV-qbMw

[JenH88]

Yippeee.. LOL.. finally got around to getting online for the first time today and saw the DOW.. lol, hadda call the hubby at work right away, came straight here afterwards- figured there would be more people to celebrate with.. LMFAOOOO

Oh.. but I just don't understand- the bailout was going to fix everything..:rolleyes: LMFAO..

[rockandrollsouls]

The bright side, rockandrollsouls, is that when you have completely lost your ass and pulled out what you have, you will still have something to wipe your ass with.

I've already said I've made a sizable amount of money and continue to do so. However, I do not wish for a market meltdown.

Please stop spreading misinformation. Again, who is the kid living with his parents making minimum wage and who is braced for a storm? I am very well off, but that's no excuse to pray for a collapse. It's asinine and shameful.

[rockandrollsouls]

I understand very well what came of the Great Depression, and I'm not disagreeing with you that if this turns out to be a depression the gov will step in and make things worse. What I'm saying, is that I think this will be much bigger than the Great Depression; it will be the collapse of an empire. To get a perspective on what may be happening, you have to look beyond US history, and look at what happens when empires collapse throughout world history.

Watch this video of Ron Paul talking about the bailout, and take note of what he says at about 3:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-9CV-qbMw

I cannot be sure if it will be the end of our empire or not, but my point is if we could have avoided a complete meltdown we would have avoided total government control. Even if our empire collapses, you can be sure the wealthy and government will capitalize while the people suffer.

[werdd]

I've already said I've made a sizable amount of money and continue to do so. However, I do not wish for a market meltdown.

Please stop spreading misinformation. Again, who is the kid living with his parents making minimum wage and who is braced for a storm? I am very well off, but that's no excuse to pray for a collapse. It's asinine and shameful.

look up the average salary of an Hospital IT employee. Stop spreading misinformation.

Is this guy managing your portfolio?http://radio.goldseek.com/shows/29.07.2006/leeb.jpg

[fatjohn]

First of all. I think the positive approach to a market crash on this forums can be explained by hope that everyone will finaly come to recognition that government intervention will do no good and that everybody would start to listen to Ron Paul. So that this market crash will go in the history books as the start of a 1 year recession instead of a 10 year depression.
Then again i would like to ask rockandrollsouls or whatshisname why he or she is trying kick everybody against their shins. Why are you on this forum then? You can't possibly expect that everyone will adapt to your visionary way of thinking. We've registered your contribution, thank you. And i would like to add, yes i'm a college student, yes i still live with my parents (sort of) and yes i'll do fine thx. Wanna know why, because 1) my dad is like the peter schiff of this region. And 2) i think i think i'll have a significant chance on a job with my education, especially when the military builds up (not that i hope)

[RockEnds]

Rockandrollsouls is just mad he is going to lose his ass. And bashes realist, who have real jobs.

He had the same condescending attitude when Barr insulted us all, also. It seems to be in his or her nature.

[dealerjim]

I don't think anyone is cheering the fall because of what it means to the American people. I think it's more of a slap in the face of big government while they scramble to prop up their unsustainable empire.

I am far from "well off" and I also embrace the collapse of our economy. Congress voting for the bailout in the face of major opposition of the American people was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I know that, short of an economic collapse, we are light years away from making any real changes in government.

I'm sick of all the manipulation and collusion in these markets and more bureaucracies popping up left and right only expanding an already out of control government.

Without a collapse, we continue to stay on the same road we've been on for the last 91 years and that, to me, is far worse than taking the heat for it now. In order to make "real" changes in Washington, ie. abolition of the Fed, less government bureaucracies and sound money, we need an economic collapse.

I demand an accountable government of, by and for the people. Something we haven't seen in nearly a century. Without some sort of major crisis, it'll never happen.

Just my $0.02... I will now step down from my soapbox.

[rockandrollsouls]

look up the average salary of an Hospital IT employee. Stop spreading misinformation.

Is this guy managing your portfolio?http://radio.goldseek.com/shows/29.07.2006/leeb.jpg

Listen, stop using IT as a cover for you working with spreadsheets. The IT specialists that make large sums of money have degrees and an education...you're some kid working with spreadsheets claiming you work in IT and it's a fallacy. You are lying to cover your ass.

[Scotso]

It's unfortunate, but if this is what it takes...

If the market continues to be craptastic despite the bailout that the government promised us would solve our problems, there's going to be a major backlash. A lot of those big government cheerleaders in Washington will be sent packing.

Hopefully our economy doesn't have to completely implode for the public to wake up, though.

[ghengis86]

No I never said I worked, what were you reading. I just said I am in great position, and I am.

And when I graduate college and pass the CPA exam I will be alright.
My family has never lived pay check to pay check and never will. Savings is a priority. Just because people are going to suffer because they don't make as much and spend their money like crazy does not mean I will. Completely different people, completely different philosophies.

you're talking about future events that haven't happened yet. when I will the lottery I'll be in a great position too. But that hasn't happend yet. who's to say CPA's will even be necessary after this whole meltdown?

[werdd]

Im not cheering on the collapse of this economy. I just understand the fundamentals of a fiat money system. It's death is as inevitable as death itself. It has never worked before, and will never work.

[rockandrollsouls]

He had the same condescending attitude when Barr insulted us all, also. It seems to be in his or her nature.

Are you serious? Barr didn't do one thing to insult you. I'm sorry your butthurt because he didn't go to Ron's conference, but that isn't directly related to you in any shape or form. What a ridiculous statement and comparison.

[werdd]

Listen, stop using IT as a cover for you working with spreadsheets. The IT specialists that make large sums of money have degrees and an education...you're some kid working with spreadsheets claiming you work in IT and it's a fallacy. You are lying to cover your ass.

Certifications pal, i didnt waste time on an inflated loan based degree.

[Scotso]

Listen, stop using IT as a cover for you working with spreadsheets. The IT specialists that make large sums of money have degrees and an education...you're some kid working with spreadsheets claiming you work in IT and it's a fallacy. You are lying to cover your ass.

You're rather angry and aggressive in this thread. Am I right in thinking you have a lot of money in the stock market right now?

[nbhadja]

you're talking about future events that haven't happened yet. when I will the lottery I'll be in a great position too. But that hasn't happend yet. who's to say CPA's will even be necessary after this whole meltdown?

Ya but the difference is that you have extremely small odds of winning the lottery. In fact, if you go to any decent university in a decent major and save a lot you should be alright.

[rockandrollsouls]

You're rather angry and aggressive in this thread. Am I right in thinking you have a lot of money in the stock market right now?

No, I made/am making a lot of money right now. If you took the time to read the previous posts, I wouldn't have to repeat myself. I am very well off, I made a lot of money by doing my homework, but I still don't hope for a collapse.

Angry and aggressive? Maybe because there are some punk kids lying through their teeth to validate an opinion. Two of them have yet to step into the real world....they don't know what they are talking about.

[Scotso]

Heh. Just called my folks back home and told them to buy the heating oil now while it's still relatively cheap, and to stock the freezer completely with venison come this deer season. Since I warned them about this a year ago, they listened quite intently today. ;)

I warned my parents and sister a year ago that all this was just waiting to happen, and I took all of my money out of the stock market then. I really wished they had listened to me, but they only have themselves to blame, I guess.

Unfortunately I also see my inheritance dwindling when I look at this crash. ;)

[Scotso]

No, I made/am making a lot of money right now. If you took the time to read the previous posts, I wouldn't have to repeat myself. I am very well off, I made a lot of money by doing my homework, but I still don't hope for a collapse.

Ah. So what you mean is you inherited a fortune from daddy. Congrats, give yourself a big pat on the back.

[rockandrollsouls]

Ya but the difference is that you have extremely small odds of winning the lottery. In fact, if you go to any decent university in a decent major and save a lot you should be alright.

How can you claim you are in a good position when you aren't independent? Your parents, in all likelihood, claim you as a dependent when they file their taxes. That's not being in a good position...that's not being sound...that's mooching off someone else and spreading misinformation by saying you are sound. You aren't sound, your parents are and you are living off them. You don't even have a job!

[werdd]

No, I made/am making a lot of money right now. If you took the time to read the previous posts, I wouldn't have to repeat myself. I am very well off, I made a lot of money by doing my homework, but I still don't hope for a collapse.

Angry and aggressive? Maybe because there are some punk kids lying through their teeth to validate an opinion. Two of them have yet to step into the real world....they don't know what they are talking about.

Where did you get the capital to invest? What did you do before?

Should i be as presumptious as you to say that you are investing on your familys lineage inheritance?

Because that would be right along the lines of saying i live at home and work with spreadsheets.

You like leeb have a lot of fake dollars invested in this joke of a free market.

[rockandrollsouls]

Ah. So what you mean is you inherited a fortune from daddy. Congrats, give yourself a big pat on the back.

No. You clearly have comprehension problems. I've been investing for a while. I've made money when the market was on its way up and when it was on its way down. I did my homework by researching the fundamentals of companies. You can play the market without buying bad stocks, miss. I multiplied my hard earned money with my hard work and research.

How is that inheriting a "fortune from daddy?" If my father was alive he'd be in his 100s....

[h_kap]

Meter Down, Down... Down, Down, Down...

[RockEnds]

Are you serious? Barr didn't do one thing to insult you. I'm sorry your butthurt because he didn't go to Ron's conference, but that isn't directly related to you in any shape or form. What a ridiculous statement and comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKNq-A-OqNs&feature=related

[rockandrollsouls]

Where did you get the capital to invest? What did you do before?

Should i be as presumptious as you to say that you are investing on your familys lineage inheritance?

Because that would be right along the lines of saying i live at home and work with spreadsheets.

You like leeb have a lot of fake dollars invested in this joke of a free market.

Kid, get out on your own and then talk. I do have money in the market, and I have for a while...but I was betting it went down ;)

Again, my hard earned money and my hard work has rewarded me well.

[werdd]

Kid, get out on your own and then talk. I do have money in the market, and I have for a while...but I was betting it went down ;)

Again, my hard earned money and my hard work has rewarded me well.

You still arent answering the question.

What did you do before, and are you investing on an inheritance??

[Anti Federalist]

Change doesn't mean you cheer as people lose their jobs and livelihood to endure suffering. What about all the honest people that worked hard and are now exposed due to the bad decisions of a few? What if you lose YOUR job because of this? Will you still be cheering?

I will never welcome a financial crisis, and I don't think anyone who truly understands economics does. I welcome the liquidation of bad debt and cleansing of the system...but you should never be happy to see an economy crash and burn. You guys don't know what you're saying and it's sick...but that's where Karma comes in. When you can't afford the internet to make your asinine posts I'll know you'll be cheering in an unheated household with little or no food. You'll have what you wanted ;)

I'm one of those guys. Worked hard, rebuilt a crappy trailer home and built a business to sell off in five years, put the money down on a new home and 12 acre farm, financed smart with good down payment and low interest. Now I'm on the hook for 1.5 trillion to bail out the assholes that NINJA'd McMansions in crappy exurban suburbs in places I wouldn't live in if you put a gun to my head.

But the bigger point: I value my freedom more than my money. And until this whole rotten system comes crashing down, there will be no impetus to restore those freedoms that have been lost. It will take a national "bitch slap" of titanic proportions to snap Boobus Americanus out his collective slumber.

So I agree with the OP, bring it on, although I take no joy in it, and my throat is hoarse from saying "I told you so" over and over again.

[nbhadja]

How can you claim you are in a good position when you aren't independent? Your parents, in all likelihood, claim you as a dependent when they file their taxes. That's not being in a good position...that's not being sound...that's mooching off someone else and spreading misinformation by saying you are sound. You aren't sound, your parents are and you are living off them. You don't even have a job!

You don't understand the Indian culture at all. That is how it works. And most of the kids grow up the be very well financially. Indians are the richest race in America now and very few of the Indian college kids are financially independent. And when I mean very few I mean veryyyyyy few.

[JenH88]

The house of cards is going to collapse, it's inevitable..

LOL, you ever seen those movies where someone is in a horrible horrible situation and they're just laughing insanely? LOL.. that's me. LOL. I'm celebrating because shit is so bad, they keep making it worse against the will of the people- we are so f*cked that I can't help but just laugh as I watch the fiat empire collapse.. the faster it falls the faster we get to the point of rebuilding-

It's like labor pains, everyone thought I was crazy when I was happy about the labor pains and didn't freak out about it, I was calm and happy- to me it meant the end of the pain was near, and a new beginning was soon approaching.

Now where the heck is the real party at? LOL.. different thread?

[nullvalu]

Listen, stop using IT as a cover for you working with spreadsheets. The IT specialists that make large sums of money have degrees and an education...you're some kid working with spreadsheets claiming you work in IT and it's a fallacy. You are lying to cover your ass.

I work in IT consulting (CRM & ERP systems), I think I make a pretty decent amount of money and I hold no fancy piece of paper (degree) and barely graduated high school. Yet, I have implement IT systems at a number of Fortune 500 companies.

I'm not taking any sides in whatever you two are squalling about, just sayin'..

[rockandrollsouls]

You still arent answering the question.

What did you do before, and are you investing on an inheritance??

No, I'm not investing an inheritance. My work experience is not important or relevant. It doesn't matter if i made 35,000 or 350,000.

What matters is you and nbhadja are praying for a collapse while you are both living off your parents. You don't have a house. You don't have a career. You don't have a family. You don't have many responsibilities. All you have to do is keep breathing. You simply don't comprehend it.

It doesn't matter if I am rich or poor....no one is immune from a collapse.

[dealerjim]

But the bigger point: I value my freedom more than my money. And until this whole rotten system comes crashing down, there will be no impetus to restore those freedoms that have been lost. It will take a national "bitch slap" of titanic proportions to snap Boobus Americanus out his collective slumber.

So I agree with the OP, bring it on, although I take no joy in it, and my throat is hoarse from saying "I told you so" over and over again.

Thank You!!! Finally someone has conveyed my sentiments. I couldn't have said it any better.

[rockandrollsouls]

I work in IT consulting (CRM & ERP systems), I think I make a pretty decent amount of money and I hold no fancy piece of paper (degree) and barely graduated high school. Yet, I have implement IT systems at a number large companies.

I'm not taking any sides in whatever you two are squalling about, just sayin'..

Well he's 17 and still in high school. Sounds like one of those after school jobs where you put numbers in spreadsheets to me. Just sayin'.

[rockandrollsouls]

Thank You!!! Finally someone has conveyed my sentiments. I couldn't have said it any better.

Only problem is history shows us whenever a crash happens we have more freedoms taken away. The idea would be fine if the evidence supported it...

[werdd]

No, I'm not investing an inheritance. My work experience is not important or relevant. It doesn't matter if i made 35,000 or 350,000.

What matters is you and nbhadja are praying for a collapse while you are both living off your parents. You don't have a house. You don't have a career. You don't have a family. You don't have many responsibilities. All you have to do is keep breathing. You simply don't comprehend it.

It doesn't matter if I am rich or poor....no one is immune from a collapse.

I am not praying for a collapse, its the inevitable eventuality of a fiat money system.

You benefited for a while, but the fundamentals of austrian economics state that to have steady unfaultered growth, the money has to be backed with something.

The idea is to lose the least in this market, and if your rhetoric is any indication of your standing, you have a lot to lose. Unfortunately time has not been on my side at age 20 almost 21. But i have spent very little to get into the career i am, and i have already been paid a dividend much greater than most anyone out of college for 2 years.

I stand to lose the least, and your career depends on a bullish market. When that is gone, your failure to explain your prior profession comes into play. Will you have any value in the real world?

You started this arguement.

[Anti Federalist]

Only problem is history shows us whenever a crash happens we have more freedoms taken away. The idea would be fine if the evidence supported it...

When the USSR collapsed, the countries that had been living under the "Iron Curtain" regained their sovereignty and national independence, almost overnight, and in many cases, without a shot being fired.

Rebellion, revolution, secession, NOW!

I hold zero allegiance to the District of Criminals.

[ghengis86]

Only problem is history shows us whenever a crash happens we have more freedoms taken away. The idea would be fine if the evidence supported it...

did you read my post a few pages back on the 'history' of this and if there was any evidence to prove the contrary; that government expansion does not occur in good financial times? Or the counter examples of 2nd bank of united states and the revolutionary war?

i would appreciate some real dialoge since this threads been hijacked...

[rockandrollsouls]

I am not praying for a collapse, its the inevitable eventuality of a fiat money system.

You benefited for a while, but the fundamentals of austrian economics state that to have steady unfaultered growth, the money has to be backed with something.

The idea is to lose the least in this market, and if your rhetoric is any indication of your standing, you have a lot to lose. Unfortunately time has not been on my side at age 20 almost 21. But i have spent very little to get into the career i am, and i have already been paid a dividend much greater than most anyone out of college for 2 years.

I stand to lose the least, and your career depends on a bullish market. When that is gone, your failure to explain your prior profession comes into play. Will you have any value in the real world?

You started this arguement.

I am still benefiting...I am a champion of the Austrian school which is why I bet against the market and capitalized on it.

Rhetoric? Kid, I've probably made more this month trading with my knowledge and sticking to my guns than your annual salary.

You stand to lose the least? I'm not losing anything. I am profiting, but I still don't champion a collapse.

[JenH88]

The house of cards is going to collapse, it's inevitable..

LOL, you ever seen those movies where someone is in a horrible horrible situation and they're just laughing insanely? LOL.. that's me. LOL. I'm celebrating because shit is so bad, they keep making it worse against the will of the people- we are so f*cked that I can't help but just laugh as I watch the fiat empire collapse.. the faster it falls the faster we get to the point of rebuilding-

It's like labor pains, everyone thought I was crazy when I was happy about the labor pains and didn't freak out about it, I was calm and happy- to me it meant the end of the pain was near, and a new beginning was soon approaching.

Now where the heck is the real party at? LOL.. different thread?

My posts are always at the bottom of the page :rolleyes:.. I came here to party.. WHERE IS THE REAL PARTY AT? This thread has been completely hijacked..

[rockandrollsouls]

did you read my post a few pages back on the 'history' of this and if there was any evidence to prove the contrary; that government expansion does not occur in good financial times? Or the counter examples of 2nd bank of united states and the revolutionary war?

i would appreciate some real dialoge since this threads been hijacked...

There is more evidence to show government expansion in times of turmoil. Ghengis, you've SEEN it over the past MONTH with your own eyes.

[nbhadja]

rockandrollsouls, you seem very scared. I bet you are one of the typical Americans who spends most of their money instead of save it.

Oh and many cultures in the world understand why it is much better financially and overall for their children to remain financially dependent until they graduate college, so they can focus on studying instead of working. I see so many kids do poorly in college because they stubbornly want to be financially independent at the age of 18.

Just because you are ignorant does not make it a bad decision. With the economy the way it is, it's a much better decision than trying to make enough money to live on your own while NOT HAVE A DEGREE, and going to college for a degree.

[rockandrollsouls]

rockandrollsouls, you seem very scared. I bet you are one of the typical Americans who spends most of their money instead of save it.

Oh and many cultures in the world understand why it is much better financially and overall for their children to remain financially dependent until they graduate college, so they can focus on studying instead of working. I see so many kids do poorly in college because they stubbornly want to be financially independent at the age of 18.

Just because you are ignorant does not make it a bad decision. With the economy the way it is, it's a much better decision than trying to make enough money to live on your own while NOT HAVE A DEGREE, and going to college for a degree.

Can you read? I am making money! I am not scared! But I fear for my fellow Americans. I do not wish hard times on them.

And, you need to shut your mouth. You don't earn the sweat of your brow. I am not ignorant. I work for my money, and I work when it's saved, and I work when it's invested.

You spend your parents money. Sit down.

[Ninja Homer]

No, I made/am making a lot of money right now. If you took the time to read the previous posts, I wouldn't have to repeat myself. I am very well off, I made a lot of money by doing my homework, but I still don't hope for a collapse.

Angry and aggressive? Maybe because there are some punk kids lying through their teeth to validate an opinion. Two of them have yet to step into the real world....they don't know what they are talking about.

They're kids... what's your excuse in taking part in this petty argument?

The dollar is failing. Some people will cheer it, and there's nothing you can do about it. The best you can do is look at the positive side, and figure out what you can do to use this situation to your advantage. For me, that means waking people up so when the government collapses we can rebuild it with a libertarian philosophy rather than having it rebuilt by the people who stole from us and created this mess in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-9CV-qbMw 3:15

[rockandrollsouls]

They're kids... what's your excuse in taking part in this petty argument?

The dollar is failing. Some people will cheer it, and there's nothing you can do about it. The best you can do is look at the positive side, and figure out what you can do to use this situation to your advantage. For me, that means waking people up so when the government collapses we can rebuild it with a libertarian philosophy rather than having it rebuilt by the people who stole from us and created this mess in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-9CV-qbMw 3:15

Because I'm sick of people here with no understanding of the economy preaching. Even worse, we have people preaching and they don't even know what it feels like to earn a days pay! What nerve! You're telling me we need a collapse when you've never lived one day of your life on your own? Come on, am I the only one that sees the flaw in this?

And, again, I have used the situation to my advantage. But, again, just because I am benefiting from it doesn't mean my neighbors should be suffering.

[Ninja Homer]

I cannot be sure if it will be the end of our empire or not, but my point is if we could have avoided a complete meltdown we would have avoided total government control. Even if our empire collapses, you can be sure the wealthy and government will capitalize while the people suffer.

The very wealthy will certainly try to capitalize on it, and they will try to set up a government that is in their advantage. However they are a very small minority, even when compared to the number of Ron Paul supporters.

Since THEIR system is the one that failed, it doesn't really work in their favor for them to try to put up the same system. They will try to use all of their tools (such as the media) to set up a new government, maybe socialism (but really it would be some form of corporatism), and blame the US failings on a limited republic and the free market. It's up to us to teach people the truth.

[sratiug]

Dear Rock-n-Roll Souls,

We're having a party, everybody's invited, the new generation along with the old,
If you can get with it now, it don't take much tryin', to find out if you've got some
Rock-n-Roll Soul

We need everybody in the world so when you know what you've got, let everybody know, you've got some rock-n-roll Soul

I know that I'm feelin' groovy, kinda funky like an old time movie...

Can you explain to us why the perpetuation of the stock market itself is good for America? Without publicly traded stocks this crash wouldn't be happening. Without huge corporations more people would own their own businesses and work for smaller businesses less likely to lay them off by the thousands.

I chear because I hate the corporate system. Fuck it. Kill the banks.

[TGautier421]

rockandrollsouls brings up some valid points, but that dude is TROLLING... :rolleyes:

What does everyone think is going to happen tomorrow?

[rockandrollsouls]

Well, no matter what you think, at least I have the man himself on my side.

Ron has never called for the collapse of the economy, he has never said it was necessary, and he's said that government has a power grab in times of crisis. I'm in good company.

[CzargwaR]

Web Bot predicts collapse tomorrow, but don't worry things will be fine eventually

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5320897231123110507&ei=3j7qSJuGI6HSqALbmdCvBA&q=web+bot+predictions&vt=lf

[ghengis86]

There is more evidence to show government expansion in times of turmoil. Ghengis, you've SEEN it over the past MONTH with your own eyes.

yes, i have seen it; but is it any less true that government expands when it is unseen? as in good econmic times? how is it any less likely for things to change, if there is a depression or not?

[JenH88]

Um.. maybe you missed the video of Ron right after the bailout was passed? He was talking about the positives of the fiat empire collapsing- and how we need to make sure we are there to aid in the rebuilding of our country and NOT LET those that created this mess create the 'solution'.. Did Ron celebrate the outlook? No, but he sure was emphasizing the POSITIVES.

[werdd]

Leeb made the same arguement against peter schiff, that if we dont give the goverment some power now they will completely controll us later.

I tend to agree with peter, 99% of the time.

[rockandrollsouls]

Leeb made the same arguement against peter schiff, that if we dont give the goverment some power now they will completely controll us later.

I tend to agree with peter, 99% of the time.

Who said we should give the government any power?

[nbhadja]

Because I'm sick of people here with no understanding of the economy preaching. Even worse, we have people preaching and they don't even know what it feels like to earn a days pay! What nerve! You're telling me we need a collapse when you've never lived one day of your life on your own? Come on, am I the only one that sees the flaw in this?

And, again, I have used the situation to my advantage. But, again, just because I am benefiting from it doesn't mean my neighbors should be suffering.


Can you read? I am making money! I am not scared! But I fear for my fellow Americans. I do not wish hard times on them.

And, you need to shut your mouth. You don't earn the sweat of your brow. I am not ignorant. I work for my money, and I work when it's saved, and I work when it's invested.

You spend your parents money. Sit down.



So Ron Paul has no understanding in the economy? You clearly said we can avoid it. Ron Paul says we cannot. Your word vs his. I pick his word. YOU WERE WRONG! We cannot avoid it. Peter Schiff even agrees.

And I have worked before. I can say whatever I want so go F yourself.

And you are ignorant, you seem to think a 20 year old that is not financially independent is mooching off his parents. I have news for you, most Asians do this. In fact, that is how it goes in Europe and Latin America as well. Asians are the richest race in America so we must be doing something right.

[Mini-Me]

I haven't yet read this thread, but it looks like the initial argument is still going on.

On one hand, stock prices are grossly inflated, since there's been a bubble in the stock market. It's a "good thing" for them to go down, as in, it's healthy for the market, and stock prices need to return to realistic levels before the economy can really move on from this.

On the other hand, it's really, really bad for the stock market to come down all at once in a precipitous crash! Joe Average is still just waking up to all of this. If the market crashes by thousands of points today or even this week, he just won't have enough time to get up to speed and rescue his savings. Hell, even a lot of us "in the know" are not ready for this! Anyone who's still heavily in the market, especially anyone who isn't diversified (and by that, I mean into PM's and foreign currencies as well as domestic companies), could get their life savings wiped out. I may still be young, but I'm one of them - I'm in the process of having shares moved out of an account so I can sell them without huge cuts going to Morgan Stanley. By the time I'm in the position to offload some, diversify, and make better investments, I may already be screwed.

The point is: Prices need to return to realistic levels and the bubble needs to burst for the long-term health of the economy. However, if the market crashes all at once, the little people will have their investments wiped out in the blink of an eye...while the fat cats up at the top get information quicker, and they'll be able to easily save their own asses.

[rockandrollsouls]

So Ron Paul has no understanding in the economy? You clearly said we can avoid it. Ron Paul says we cannot. Your word vs his. I pick his word. YOU WERE WRONG! We cannot avoid it. Peter Schiff even agrees.

And I have worked before. I can say whatever I want so go F yourself.

And you are ignorant, you seem to think a 20 year old that is not financially independent is mooching off his parents. I have news for you, most Asians do this. In fact, that is how it goes in Europe and Latin America as well. Asians are the richest race in America so we must be doing something right.

No, I said we could have avoided a 10 year depression.

Before you said Indians. Don't try and turn this into a race argument, kid.

[JenH88]

9,747.94 -577.44 / -5.59%
Oct 6 2:01pm ET

[DFF]

9,747.94 -577.44 / -5.59%
Oct 6 2:01pm ET

Quick! Break out the "informal" President's Working Group On Financial Markets!

[sratiug]

No, I said we could have avoided a 10 year depression.

Before you said Indians. Don't try and turn this into a race argument, kid.

Why don't you stop being so condescending and answer my fucking question. Explain how the existence of the stock market is such a great benefit and prevents booms and busts. Explain how multinational corporations are better than local businesses. Enlighten us all with your great wisdom.

[DFF]

Explain how the existence of the stock market is such a great benefit

Free market capitalism at it's finest? :rolleyes:

[ghengis86]

Why don't you stop being so condescending and answer my fucking question. Explain how the existence of the stock market is such a great benefit and prevents booms and busts. Explain how multinational corporations are better than local businesses. Enlighten us all with your great wisdom.

multinational corporations allow you to afford things you wouldn't normally be able to afford or would afford less of. Think economies of scale and you know why there are corporations.

[rockandrollsouls]

Why don't you stop being so condescending and answer my fucking question. Explain how the existence of the stock market is such a great benefit and prevents booms and busts. Explain how multinational corporations are better than local businesses. Enlighten us all with your great wisdom.

The stock market has nothing to do with booms and busts...that has to do with monetary policy. It is a gauge of confidence, though.

[LibertyRevolution]

9,683.90 -641.48 -6.21%
2:18pm

falling fast towards 700

*Update
9,632.29 -693.09 -6.71%
2:22pm

[Ninja Homer]

Because I'm sick of people here with no understanding of the economy preaching. Even worse, we have people preaching and they don't even know what it feels like to earn a days pay! What nerve! You're telling me we need a collapse when you've never lived one day of your life on your own? Come on, am I the only one that sees the flaw in this?

And, again, I have used the situation to my advantage. But, again, just because I am benefiting from it doesn't mean my neighbors should be suffering.

I'll assume you aren't talking about me when you say, "they don't even know what it feels like to earn a days pay."

I'm not saying we need a collapse, I'm saying we're having one.

Other people are cheering for the positive side of the collapse. And you're saying, "How dare you cheer for the positive side of the collapse! In fact, I don't even see the positive side of a collapse. We have to focus on the negative side of the collapse, and feel really really bad about it."

And to that line of thinking, I reply: There's going to be a collapse, and it has both negatives and positives. Feeling happy about the positive and using it to your advantage is much more beneficial and productive than feeling bad about the negative side and just sitting around complaining about it.

[ghengis86]

Dow683.13-6.62%
9,642.25nasdaq150.51-7.73%
1,796.88s&p 50080.72-7.34%
1,018.51

[Ninja Homer]

Um.. maybe you missed the video of Ron right after the bailout was passed? He was talking about the positives of the fiat empire collapsing- and how we need to make sure we are there to aid in the rebuilding of our country and NOT LET those that created this mess create the 'solution'.. Did Ron celebrate the outlook? No, but he sure was emphasizing the POSITIVES.

I hope he watched it, since I put the link in 2 posts to him in this thread. Just in case, here it is again. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-9CV-qbMw 3:15

[rockandrollsouls]

I'll assume you aren't talking about me when you say, "they don't even know what it feels like to earn a days pay."

I'm not saying we need a collapse, I'm saying we're having one.

Other people are cheering for the positive side of the collapse. And you're saying, "How dare you cheer for the positive side of the collapse! In fact, I don't even see the positive side of a collapse. We have to focus on the negative side of the collapse, and feel really really bad about it."

And to that line of thinking, I reply: There's going to be a collapse, and it has both negatives and positives. Feeling happy about the positive and using it to your advantage is much more beneficial and productive than feeling bad about the negative side and just sitting around complaining about it.

I agree, we will have one....but please, don't cheer it. You don't want to hope for something with this. I know this will happen but I'm praying with every ounce of my being it doesn't.

There hasn't been a positive side of the collapse identified....praying for a collapse to "start over" isn't positive.

[dawnbt]

US
Dow 9,636.75 -688.63 -6.67%

Nasdaq 1,792.50 -154.89 -7.95%

S&P 500 1,018.75 -80.48 -7.32%

10 Yr Bond(%) 3.4610% -0.1830

[puppetmaster]

The fact of the matter is that this is all orchestrated by an elite group. The american people as well as a large part of the world will play into this trap. this will usher in a new era in civilization. One that many of us will detest. There will be very bad times for people soon but this will also breed an awakening and real patriotism! We must fight like our lives, and the lives of our families depend on it, as they most surely do

[fatjohn]

Because I'm sick of people here with no understanding of the economy preaching.

Well then email Fox News. And stop bothering us, we do much less harm.:mad:

[Maverick]

Dow is down 700 again.

I've seen it between -737 and -701 in the last couple of minutes.

[LibertyRevolution]

Dow 9,602.34 -723.04 -7.00%
gold 867.10 +31.30 +3.75%
silver 11.06 -0.13 -1.16%
gold/silver ratio 78.45

[fatjohn]

I agree, we will have one....but please, don't cheer it. You don't want to hope for something with this. I know this will happen but I'm praying with every ounce of my being it doesn't.

There hasn't been a positive side of the collapse identified....praying for a collapse to "start over" isn't positive.

Look people around here believe in guys behind a curtain. And they think this is a sign that they are about to lose control, just as Ron Paul said on Alex Jones. So that's the reason they are cheering. So there's the positive part. Look we would all be happy if tomorrow the revolution begins and the people take society back without a depression. But that's just very unlikely. So i cheer now, because i still see hope to make a U-turn. I won't cheer when i no longer can't eat any bananas because they won't ship them anymore, to name one example.

[JenH88]

Dow is down 700 again.

I've seen it between -737 and -701 in the last couple of minutes.

746 is the lowest I've seen.. it's in the 690's now..

[JenH88]

Take that back.. -706

[damania]

We need to organize and network for a post collapse takeover.

We need an organization with people in positions to takeover rolls once people are disenfranchised with the current leaders.

We can implement this revolution better with organization.

[LibertyEagle]

Then you are a fucking moron. A market crash is not good for anyone. You should be hoping and praying we make it out of this with some sort of positive.

QFT

For those of you cheering this on, it just shows that you don't have a pot to piss in and are happy to see others who DID work their asses off and amount to something, be brought down to your obvious level of failure.

Celebrating honest, hard-working people losing their life's savings says much more about you, than anything else.

:mad:

[Mark]

None of this is "cheery", but these times, AKA "The Last Days", are incredible to observe.

[NEPA_Revolution]

Its not like we want the honest average person to lose thier money... Personally I am rooting against the corporate big wigs, bankers etc. My aunt lost $100,000 the other day..... I cant even imagine what that feels like.

[MikeStanart]

I'm so glad my mom took her money out of stocks a month ago.

[MikeStanart]

It capped out at -790 a min ago. Back to -755

[nullvalu]

QFT

For those of you cheering this on, it just shows that you don't have a pot to piss in and are happy to see others who DID work their asses off and amount to something, be brought down to your obvious level of failure.

Celebrating honest, hard-working people losing their life's savings says much more about you, than anything else.

:mad:

It's obviously a shame this is happening, it's not like we're the ones who caused it. You can take your moral high ground and try to piss on the rest of us, but who among us didn't see this coming? At least let us have our "we told you so!" moment. We all know it has to get much worse before it gets better.

[jkm1864]

Oh look what the republicans and democrats have done to this nation. I wonder when they are starving in the streets will they continue to vote along party lines.

[ghengis86]

QFT

For those of you cheering this on, it just shows that you don't have a pot to piss in and are happy to see others who DID work their asses off and amount to something, be brought down to your obvious level of failure.

Celebrating honest, hard-working people losing their life's savings says much more about you, than anything else.

:mad:

i'm not cheering "honest, hard-working people losing their life's savings" you dolt. when did i ever say it was a good thing for people to lose their savings? my level of failure? maybe you haven't kept up with the posts, but my household is self sufficient for at least a year. maybe if people weren't so busy working their asses off for the almighty dollar and actually took a second to think about their own precarious position in life, it would be different.

what if you were heavily invested into the market and it was booming? would you be cheering? or would you condem the meteroic rise of the stock market because it wasn't benefitting everyone? what about the hard working people who didn't rely on the stock market for wealth? would you be so concerned about those souls?

[DFF]

oh look what the republicans and democrats have done to this nation. I wonder when they are starving in the streets will they continue to vote along party lines.

qft!

[MikeStanart]

This is a tragic event for many people, instead of flaunting our "I told you so" message, how about we continue to press the importance of Ron Paul's message to other people? We already have leverage in a conversation. We were right before, maybe they will be more willing to listen to us in the future?

Attacking eachother within the Ron Paul community is not helping this movement.



simma down, peeps.

[Original_Intent]

QFT

For those of you cheering this on, it just shows that you don't have a pot to piss in and are happy to see others who DID work their asses off and amount to something, be brought down to your obvious level of failure.

Celebrating honest, hard-working people losing their life's savings says much more about you, than anything else.

:mad:

Another rare time I disagree with you LE.

I am sure my 401(k) is getting wiped out as we speak. And I wouldn't say I am cheering, but deep down I am glad to see this because the only thing that will wake people up is pain, be it physical pain, financial pain whatever.
I do not celebrate people losing their jobs, I do celbrate what I see as a necessary step to us having any chance of saving this country. This will get people to stop watching NASCAR for 5 minutes and take notice to what is going on in this country.

[nullvalu]

This is a tragic event for many people, instead of flaunting our "I told you so" message, how about we continue to press the importance of Ron Paul's message to other people? We already have leverage in a conversation. We were right before, maybe they will be more willing to listen to us in the future?

Attacking eachother within the Ron Paul community is not helping this movement.

simma down, peeps.

I think the flaunting is just taking place here, amongst our own. I know I am taking a much more subtle approach with others in person who need further convincing.

[jkr]

agreed im not happy, folks may start to panic

[DFF]

Looks like the Plunge Protection Team is at work...right before the DOW almost broke -800...it then increased by +100.

[Original_Intent]

The FTSE is down almost 8%.

[Truth Warrior]

I'd be cheering too, if only I were just sitting on a whole potful of deep "out of the money" put options, futures contracts and LEAPS. ;) :D

[Ninja Homer]

I agree, we will have one....but please, don't cheer it. You don't want to hope for something with this. I know this will happen but I'm praying with every ounce of my being it doesn't.

There hasn't been a positive side of the collapse identified....praying for a collapse to "start over" isn't positive.

I don't cheer it. I will continue to look at the positive side of everything. I guess it's just my nature.

I don't pray for a collapse, I pray for the end result of a country where I, my family, my son, people of this country, and future generations are free. If there's a collapse that leads to that end result, so be it. The current collapse is a result of actions in the past, so there isn't a thing I can do about it, one way or the other. All I can do is stay positive in the present to attain my vision of the future.

[dawnbt]

It's on the rise -589.47

[Kade]

I don't cheer other people's misery. I guess in the end, this is where I differ most from conservatives.

[nullvalu]

I don't cheer other people's misery. I guess in the end, this is where I differ most from conservatives.

How transcendental of you.

[Rangeley]

I don't cheer other people's misery. I guess in the end, this is where I differ most from conservatives.
:rolleyes:

[Kade]

How transcendental of you.

Your avatar has always been relevant. I applaud you for that.

But your use of the word transcendental is rather inaccurate. I have never condoned or followed Kant.

[ghengis86]

was everybody cheering when the stock market was booming? or were you bemoaning the misery of people who were not invested in the market or those without a job? i guess that's where I differ from most hypocrites

[dawnbt]

Dow 9,841.36 -484.02 -4.69%

[Bigvick]

well my shares in google went down another 5% today. horray............. :rolleyes:

I think I will cut my losses soon lol

[DFF]

Things are starting to cool down...

[Kade]

Cheer the fall of the Dow!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Lange-MigrantMother02.jpg/461px-Lange-MigrantMother02.jpg

[werdd]

Cheer the fall of the Dow!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Lange-MigrantMother02.jpg/461px-Lange-MigrantMother02.jpg

yeah, how are we ever going to get universal healthcare with our economy melting down, we need more bailouts!

::facepalm::

[Bigvick]

was recovering but back down we go, 600-650 by close I think..

[LibertyEagle]

i'm not cheering "honest, hard-working people losing their life's savings" you dolt. when did i ever say it was a good thing for people to lose their savings? my level of failure? maybe you haven't kept up with the posts, but my household is self sufficient for at least a year. maybe if people weren't so busy working their asses off for the almighty dollar and actually took a second to think about their own precarious position in life, it would be different.

what if you were heavily invested into the market and it was booming? would you be cheering? or would you condem the meteroic rise of the stock market because it wasn't benefitting everyone?
What's this "benefiting everyone" BS? Sounds to me a little like Karl Marx's... from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.


what about the hard working people who didn't rely on the stock market for wealth? would you be so concerned about those souls?

I don't cheer ANYONE losing money, if they came by it honestly. Apparently, you see it differently.

The point is, that there are all kinds of every day people out there, who are losing their life savings right now. They earned their money honestly and thought they had invested it wisely. While I understand that those of you celebrating this, are probably just wanting to get back at the bankers and others who created this mess, you've got to know that these people are not the ones being hurt. They however, will be the ones bailed out by Paulson, Bernanke and crew.

[Mini-Me]

I don't cheer other people's misery. I guess in the end, this is where I differ most from conservatives.

It looks like you're in the same boat as rockandrollsouls then...who I believe considers himself conservative.

In other words, don't generalize. :rolleyes:

BTW (not to Kade), Liberty Eagle is right. The poor and middle class will lose their life savings, whereas the people who screwed up our economy will find a way to keep their wealth. Stock prices have been in a bubble and they need to return to realistic levels for long-term economic sustainability, but a precipitous crash is not a good thing.

As ANOTHER edit, it looks like the DOW might go up over 10k again today. That might be because of the PPT, or it could just be a bunch of people buying at what they consider low prices. Hopefully, more people who aren't prepared can and will get scared enough by today's events that they'll start taking some extra precautions.

[Kade]

yeah, how are we ever going to get universal healthcare with our economy melting down, we need more bailouts!

::facepalm::

Don't you have more goat children to father?

http://www.websophist.com/GoatBoy.jpg

Seriously, you are getting on my bad side Werdd. Your comments make absolutely no sense, and I'm beginning to think the Goat Porn is a reality. I apologized to you once, I won't again.

[LibertyEagle]

Another rare time I disagree with you LE.

I am sure my 401(k) is getting wiped out as we speak. And I wouldn't say I am cheering, but deep down I am glad to see this because the only thing that will wake people up is pain, be it physical pain, financial pain whatever.
I do not celebrate people losing their jobs, I do celbrate what I see as a necessary step to us having any chance of saving this country. This will get people to stop watching NASCAR for 5 minutes and take notice to what is going on in this country.

I agree that it is waking up more people and of that, I am happy. However, I still don't agree celebrating honest people being wiped out. I can't celebrate that at all. Beyond that, just imagine what kind of jerks we look like to people who are searching for answers and come over here looking for them. Do you think that would encourage them to give Austrian Economics a look-see? I don't. I think we should employ a little more class.

[werdd]

Point taken, there is quite a bit of shadenfreude going on ATM.

We were right, no need to rub it in anyones face. If someone ask's how did this happen, we can give them the answers.

The fed creating artificially low interest rates, which in turn caused companies to give low APR mortgages, which inflated the price of everyones home.

We cant let people accept what the media is now telling them, that it's the companies fault and we need more regulation. We must make it known that it goes back a step further, and originates entirely with the fed, and our monetary policy.

I look forward to hearing peter schiff tonight

[ghengis86]

What's this "benefiting everyone" BS? Sounds to me a little like Karl Marx's... from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.


I don't cheer ANYONE losing money, if they came by it honestly. Apparently, you see it differently.

The point is, that there are all kinds of every day people out there, who are losing their life savings right now. They earned their money honestly and thought they had invested it wisely. While I understand that those of you celebrating this, are probably just wanting to get back at the bankers and others who created this mess, you've got to know that these people are not the ones being hurt. They however, will be the ones bailed out by Paulson, Bernanke and crew.

No shit it sounds like Karl Marx, that's the point. if right now the Dow was going through the roof, would we still be worrying about the honest, hard worker losing his shirt because he made a bad investment (HD-DVD)? Or that he spent all his hard earned wealth investing, even with the disclaimers that stocks can lose value? No, people would be saying 'you should have done this or that'.

And how does one make honest money in the stock market if these banks are selling fraudulent investments, inflated earnings, etc.? All that money being made to boost Enron stock was fraudulent, so should the honest employee/investor still have a right to that money that was made dishonestly? Wouldn't they be taking someone elses investment money? Do people get their money back after they've been duped into a ponzi scheme?

so why is it wrong to cheer the fall of the Dow for those of us who weren't over exposed and allocated our wealth in to things that will secure our future? Rockandrollsoul is making a killing today (accroding to him, but I tend to believe he's made the right calls/puts). We should have compassion, but nobody put a gun to their head and told them "do this or that with your money, or else!"

I'm not saying i'm cheering people getting wiped out financially. All I'm saying is that when things are booming, I would hope there is still such defense for the 'honest hard worker' that gets laid off, makes a bad investment, etc. otherwise its hypocritical

[Anti Federalist]

the fact of the matter is that this is all orchestrated by an elite group. The american people as well as a large part of the world will play into this trap. This will usher in a new era in civilization. One that many of us will detest. There will be very bad times for people soon but this will also breed an awakening and real patriotism! We must fight like our lives, and the lives of our families depend on it, as they most surely do

+1776

[Anti Federalist]

Maybe this will also be what it takes to make people understand how dangerous and foolish a "globally connected" marketplace is, with transnational corporations running roughshod over and trumping more important considerations of national sovereignty and independence.

Using a marine analogy, the "global" marketplace is like building a 1000 foot ship with one single water tight compartment. Put a hole in it anywhere and the whole thing sinks.

[sirachman]

Go back and read my other posts. You deserve every harsh word you get, buddy. You're not immune from a collapse, and most of the posts cheering a total failure are from little kids who live with their parents. Get a grip.

You seriously need to stop insulting people and lean to debate intelligently and with respect. You don't win arguments by using cuss words or attacking peoples age, gender, background, or family.

[sirachman]

I agree that it is waking up more people and of that, I am happy. However, I still don't agree celebrating honest people being wiped out. I can't celebrate that at all. Beyond that, just imagine what kind of jerks we look like to people who are searching for answers and come over here looking for them. Do you think that would encourage them to give Austrian Economics a look-see? I don't. I think we should employ a little more class.

Being in the stock market involves risk that is assumed upon investment by all those who spend the time to actually research where they are putting their money. If you put money into anything other than a can in the back of your yard in the attempt to make money off of it that is gambling and there is thus always a level of risk. Because of this it is patently false to go around feeling sorry for all the "poor honest people" who lose all of their money. Some lose and some gain that is how the market works, because if it didn't noone would be able to make money off of the stock market because without risk there could be no reward.

[Kade]

You seriously need to stop insulting people and lean to debate intelligently and with respect. You don't win arguments by using cuss words or attacking peoples age, gender, background, or family.

You do on these forums. RockandRoll lost pretty soundly in the last flame war, he has learned that we don't admire intelligent thought here, unless you are intelligent and forthright in your ability to insult the person back into their corner of mediocrity.

The only bit of intelligent discourse on these forums happens in my private message box with the people who won't openly admit they support and admire me.

:cool:

[weatherbill]

Well for one, I started working in my career in 1991 and that's when housing started to go thru the roof, as an electrician looking to possibly get into a home, everytime I considered, the price would go up 5 or 10 grand. It became rediculous! SO I was robbed along with others, of our labor thru savings, as also the dollar wasn
t worth what it used to be, since housing went from 85 grand to 110 to 120 and up and up it went, so honest hard working individualslike my self who did everything right and had saved and not gotten into debt, we were punished!

SO NOW IT IS PAY DAY! I don';t like to see economic suffering at all, but the lies and the abuse must stop. Why should the righteous suffer from this??? I still can;t afford a house unless I get in debt to a banker and I labored for over 17 years in this bullshit economy! So, don't go crying to me about economic suffering! I've been thru it and it sucks, but now it's my turn to reap my reward for saving instead of borrowing........ I did my time of suffering economically. Now everyone is crying when the game is turned agaisnt them........well, go cry on someone els'es shoulder you wall st bastards!

[ghengis86]

You do on these forums. RockandRoll lost pretty soundly in the last flame war, he has learned that we don't admire intelligent thought here, unless you are intelligent and forthright in your ability to insult the person back into their corner of mediocrity.

The only bit of intelligent discourse on these forums happens in my private message box with the people who won't openly admit they support and admire me.

:cool:

i admire and support you, kade. am i exempt from sending private messages now?

[Kade]

i admire and support you, kade. am i exempt from sending private messages now?

Pm away. I try to respond to everyone! =)

If I don't, it only means that I have taken a few days off or my inbox is full again. (100 message limit is hard on me)

[ghengis86]

i meant in the future, can we have intelligent discourse on a forum, instead of PM (also, is there any other discourse to have? )

[anaconda]

The faster it goes to zero the better.

[RockEnds]

Sometime truth is found in the least likely places:


For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

It magically applies to so many different angles in this sea of trouble.

[Mini-Me]

The faster it goes to zero the better.

:eek:
No...just no. (If you want to know why, read the non-idiotic comments in this thread...) For one thing, if every big corporation went out of business, there goes most of the nation's food supply.

[damania]

:eek:
No...just no. (If you want to know why, read the non-idiotic comments in this thread...) For one thing, if every big corporation went out of business, there goes most of the nation's food supply.

There will be others to replace the failed corporation

[libertarian4321]

DOW down 316pts @ 10:10 EST


WooooHooooo!

I'm not intending to get involved in the flame war, but let me tell you why your gushing with delight is not smart:

1. This is the kind of thing that the government uses as an excuse to grab more power, not something that will end government power. You've already seen it with the "bail out". The worse things get, the more the government will step in. So if your hope is that a crashing stock market will mean "less government", you are woefully misguided. The last time we had something like this happen (it was far worse then) was during the Great Depression- which gave us the biggest expansion of government power in history. Even during lesser "crashes", the tendency has been for MORE GOVERNMENT, not less.

Some of you seem to think this will be an "end of the world" scenario that will lead to the abolishment of the government and an awakening of a new and glorious day. This sort of thought is the epitome of naivety. First, its not going to happen- every time there is a market crash, some people think its the "end of the world", but it never really is. Second, even if it did happen, its highly unlikely that a utopian form of government would rise from the ashes and lead us into a glorious future.

Frankly, if the "end of the world" scenario did occur, any new government that arises will likely be far worse than what we have now. You'd most likely end up with the USA divided into a series of small, warring dictatorships, not a nation united in freedom and happiness. It would more closely resemble the dark ages than a new golden age.

2. If you are love the "crash" because you are enjoying a bit of shadenfreude and think the "rich" are going to suffer, you are again misguided. The rich will see their portfolio's drop and may need to make minor lifestyle adjustments, but they will generally be okay. I guarantee you, they won't suffer.

The people who will get hurt by this are the middle class- the ones who will lose their jobs. The ones who have already seen their primary source of wealth (their homes) decline in value, and who will now see their only other significant source of retirement assets (their 401K) tank.

Its going to be even worse for the working poor, they will be DESTROYED- they will likely be the first to lose their jobs, they are the least likely to have anything to fall back on financially, they will probably lose their homes (if they haven't already), and God help them if they are in debt, because they will be squeezed for every penny they have.

3. If you think people are going to flock to our cause after reading threads like this, you are a complete fool- anyone coming to the forums and reading this thread will likely think "Those Ron Paul people are a bunch of complete assholes, reveling in the misery of others."

[sratiug]

multinational corporations allow you to afford things you wouldn't normally be able to afford or would afford less of. Think economies of scale and you know why there are corporations.

Think elimination of local competition and local wealth. Instead of thousands of thriving businesses not depending on their stock value we depend on multinational corporations that are too big to fail.

Think about how a couple of companies own our food supply, eliminating the competition from millions of family owned farms.

Think about the gambling on the stock market and the evil soulless nature of corporations.

Think about how nothing is made in the USA anymore. Without multinational conglomerates, third world peoples would still be growing their own food instead of working in slave factories making widgets for .99c a pop putting American factories out of business, and becoming dependent on fiat money.

There are no national corporations, corporation is not found in the US Constitution. Corporations are state creations and should mostly be abolished except for state projects set up for limited duration.

The American Revolution was largely fought to end the power of corporations, and yet here we are being ruled by them again.

[sratiug]

The stock market has nothing to do with booms and busts...that has to do with monetary policy. It is a gauge of confidence, though.

Yeah, right, ok, whatever you say...

But if it did not exist there is absolutely no possibility of it crashing.

What year did the stock market begin?

[RideTheDirt]

There will be others to replace the failed corporationThis. I don't want the dow at 0. I would like the see it correct itself, we continue to spread the message that we need to live within our means, and eventually people will see that the only way to survive is to live within their means. We don't need all this crap we have. We don't need a new ipod every year. We don't need to eat McDonalds 6 times a day. America WILL learn. The suffering will occur while they try to figure this out.

We will rebuild. What matters is: What we will build?

[Teenforpaul08]

DOW down 316pts @ 10:10 EST


WooooHooooo!

So you're happy that people like your grandparents (through retirement funds, 401k) are losing their purchasing power? That's not very nice.