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EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:10 PM
Hey guys and girls,

As some of you know, I am a Ron Paul Supporter but a McCain/Palin voter. Now I know how that enrages some of you and I am not interested in debating the virtues of lesser of two evils (been there done that).

I have a background on the forums of trying to get people here to win people over to the RP way of thinking using a little wisdom instead of the usual cursing, vitrial and snow ball throwing.

I just watch Hannity's America on FOX (it comes back on at 11:00 pm central). It is unbelievable the ties obama has to socialism, islamic sympathisers, the PLO, Louis farrakhan, america haters and terrorist. It was laid out pretty clearly. The influences that he has had all through the years is simply unreal. The "Goddamn America" comment by jeremiah Wright is only the beginning of what that man has said.

Obama, IMO, has a desire to, through subtle manipulation, take America to a radical end.

I am writing this to all those in the swing states. Please consider the ramifications to your decision to vote third party. It could have dire consequenses..
I know how people feel about "scare tactics" and that this is what the "two party" system uses to promote the lesses of two evils but that does not mean there is not real evil.

I know that people here think other people voting for mccain are sheeple and that they are victims of collectivism. I understant this point of view and agree with it to some extent. But there seems to be a certain amount of collectivism in the RP movement but of course that means that collectivism and group think is OK when it is your own.

As I said I am not interested in flames or arguing. Discussion without the name calling is welcome.

Feelgood
10-05-2008, 08:18 PM
What it is that you do not seem to understand, its that McCain will take America to that same dire end. You do not seem to understand, and apparently through some Hannity insanity brainwashing, is that they are both CFR members, and both desire the same thing. They are both two pieces of shit, on the same turd sandwish, being shoved down our throats.

McInsane has said repeatedly, "there will be more wars". How are we going to pay for these wars and continue to expand our empire? We simply cannot. This country can not "literally" afford McInsane or Obama. The only way to bring about change, like Obama wants to, is to vote third party, and send a clear message to the miserable neo-con scum in the GOP, that their days are numbered, and they need to go.

You go right ahead and shill for that piece of human feces, McInsane, all you want, I will never ever EVER vote for that bastard. As a matter of fact, I have changed my registration from Republican, to Independent, because the GOP has sold out America, for the last time. You go ahead and vote for evil, just please dont bring that crap over here and expect ANY true patriot to follow your lead. You my friend, walk alone...

Zera
10-05-2008, 08:23 PM
There is never a reason to smear a candidate for ties to some screwed up group or just spread rumors. As someone who believes in Ron Paul at all, you should know this. You have to go against someone for their policies, and you should have no problem doing that with Obama. Or McCain for that matter.

Also, I rather you just not vote at all if you're going to vote for McCain.

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 08:24 PM
What it is that you do not seem to understand, its that McCain will take America to that same dire end. You do not seem to understand, and apparently through some Hannity insanity brainwashing, is that they are both CFR members, and both desire the same thing. They are both two pieces of shit, on the same turd sandwish, being shoved down our throats.

McInsane has said repeatedly, "there will be more wars". How are we going to pay for these wars and continue to expand our empire? We simply cannot. This country can not "literally" afford McInsane or Obama. The only way to bring about change, like Obama wants to, is to vote third party, and send a clear message to the miserable neo-con scum in the GOP, that their days are numbered, and they need to go.

You go right ahead and shill for that piece of human feces, McInsane, all you want, I will never ever EVER vote for that bastard. As a matter of fact, I have changed my registration from Republican, to Independent, because the GOP has sold out America, for the last time. You go ahead and vote for evil, just please dont bring that crap over here and expect ANY true patriot to follow your lead. You my friend, walk alone...

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/PBSnipes/win.jpg

RJB
10-05-2008, 08:24 PM
Seriously, I see McCain as an equal evil.

I wil not vote for anyone who will not.

1. End unconstitutional wars.
2. end or investigate the fed.
3. cancel unconstitutional bills like the patriot act
5. end deficit spending
4. They need to have voted against the bailout bill.
5. recognize U.S. Sovereignity over that of the UN or other treaties.
There are a few others but McCain does not even address any of them, nor does Obama.

In My opinion, Cynthia McKinney-- racist nut that she is, is the lesser of two evils against McCain.

If you love the GOP so much tell the rest of the GOP to nominate a man who follows the law of the land next time.

Zera
10-05-2008, 08:28 PM
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/PBSnipes/win.jpg

Actually that does look pretty good. Only 300 calories, but the macronutrient profile looks nice for a meal.

Anti Federalist
10-05-2008, 08:33 PM
Hey guys and girls,

As some of you know, I am a Ron Paul Supporter but a McCain/Palin voter. Now I know how that enrages some of you and I am not interested in debating the virtues of lesser of two evils (been there done that).

I have a background on the forums of trying to get people here to win people over to the RP way of thinking using a little wisdom instead of the usual cursing, vitrial and snow ball throwing.

I just watch Hannity's America on FOX (it comes back on at 11:00 pm central). It is unbelievable the ties obama has to socialism, islamic sympathisers, the PLO, Louis farrakhan, america haters and terrorist. It was laid out pretty clearly. The influences that he has had all through the years is simply unreal. The "Goddamn America" comment by jeremiah Wright is only the beginning of what that man has said.

Obama, IMO, has a desire to, through subtle manipulation, take America to a radical end.

I am writing this to all those in the swing states. Please consider the ramifications to your decision to vote third party. It could have dire consequenses..
I know how people feel about "scare tactics" and that this is what the "two party" system uses to promote the lesses of two evils but that does not mean there is not real evil.

I know that people here think other people voting for mccain are sheeple and that they are victims of collectivism. I understant this point of view and agree with it to some extent. But there seems to be a certain amount of collectivism in the RP movement but of course that means that collectivism and group think is OK when it is your own.

As I said I am not interested in flames or arguing. Discussion without the name calling is welcome.

Hmmm...well, a long winded diatribe is out of order here.

The bailout bill, an O-bomb-a presidency...

Worse is Better.

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 08:34 PM
Actually that does look pretty good. Only 300 calories, but the macronutrient profile looks nice for a meal.

Personally I'd like to see a bit more B12.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:34 PM
What it is that you do not seem to understand, its that McCain will take America to that same dire end. You do not seem to understand, and apparently through some Hannity insanity brainwashing, is that they are both CFR members, and both desire the same thing. They are both two pieces of shit, on the same turd sandwish, being shoved down our throats.

McInsane has said repeatedly, "there will be more wars". How are we going to pay for these wars and continue to expand our empire? We simply cannot. This country can not "literally" afford McInsane or Obama. The only way to bring about change, like Obama wants to, is to vote third party, and send a clear message to the miserable neo-con scum in the GOP, that their days are numbered, and they need to go.

You go right ahead and shill for that piece of human feces, McInsane, all you want, I will never ever EVER vote for that bastard. As a matter of fact, I have changed my registration from Republican, to Independent, because the GOP has sold out America, for the last time. You go ahead and vote for evil, just please dont bring that crap over here and expect ANY true patriot to follow your lead. You my friend, walk alone...

As I said, "My friend", I am interested in thoughtful discussion, but not your unthoughtful blathering.

As far as my "Hannity insanity brainwashing", I watch the program to gain information.. I have enough intellegence to think for myself (not being a sheeple) and pick out what is true information and what is BS.. just like I did when I chose to be a RP supporter.

You may say they are the same.. and in SOME ways I agree... but there are some ways THEY ARE different.

Indy4Chng
10-05-2008, 08:37 PM
Hannity is the biggest tool ever. He claims we should have a never ending empire and control spending at the same time. He is a lunitic and doesn't understand basic economics. As bad as socialism is, at a macro-level it is just a re-investment in the country we take some taxes here and give them back to our country. War takes those same taxes and sets them on fire. Obama is bad, but McCain is no better. The GOP has no principle except do whatever it takes to stay in power.

You are a disgrace to these forums.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:37 PM
There is never a reason to smear a candidate for ties to some screwed up group or just spread rumors. As someone who believes in Ron Paul at all, you should know this. You have to go against someone for their policies, and you should have no problem doing that with Obama. Or McCain for that matter.

Also, I rather you just not vote at all if you're going to vote for McCain.

Completely agreed... but did you see the program? Please don't judge if you did not.

But it IS important if someone mis-represents themself and lies. That you can judge on.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:38 PM
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/PBSnipes/win.jpg

Makes no sense to me... :)

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 08:38 PM
As I said, "My friend", I am interested in thoughtful discussion, but not your unthoughtful blathering.

As far as my "Hannity insanity brainwashing", I watch the program to gain information.. I have enough intellegence to think for myself (not being a sheeple) and pick out what is true information and what is BS.. just like I did when I chose to be a RP supporter.

You may say they are the same.. and in SOME ways I agree... but there are some ways THEY ARE different.

http://www.blogadilla.com/img/mccain1908.jpg

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 08:39 PM
Makes no sense to me... :)

It never does. :)

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:41 PM
Seriously, I see McCain as an equal evil.

I wil not vote for anyone who will not.

1. End unconstitutional wars.
2. end or investigate the fed.
3. cancel unconstitutional bills like the patriot act
5. end deficit spending
4. They need to have voted against the bailout bill.
5. recognize U.S. Sovereignity over that of the UN or other treaties.
There are a few others but McCain does not even address any of them, nor does Obama.

In My opinion, Cynthia McKinney-- racist nut that she is, is the lesser of two evils against McCain.

If you love the GOP so much tell the rest of the GOP to nominate a man who follows the law of the land next time.


I completely agree with 2,3,4,5 and partially agree with 1 but McKinney is not going to win. Obama OR McCain will be president in January. McCain, IMO, will be nuch LESS harm to the RP movement.

sparebulb
10-05-2008, 08:41 PM
It is my right to do with my vote what I will. The ramifications of a McClaim/Obomination win are the all the same, in my reasoning. There is an evil presence that has already taken over our country which will be fueled equally by McClaim or Obomination in the White House.

When you choose the lesser of two evils, you still choose evil. I will do no such thing.

I will accept the consequences and go down doing the right thing for the right reasons. Voting for either of these two evil men is not doing the right thing.

pacelli
10-05-2008, 08:41 PM
Hey guys and girls,

As some of you know, I am a Ron Paul Supporter but a McCain/Palin voter. Now I know how that enrages some of you and I am not interested in debating the virtues of lesser of two evils (been there done that).

I have a background on the forums of trying to get people here to win people over to the RP way of thinking using a little wisdom instead of the usual cursing, vitrial and snow ball throwing.

I just watch Hannity's America on FOX (it comes back on at 11:00 pm central). It is unbelievable the ties obama has to socialism, islamic sympathisers, the PLO, Louis farrakhan, america haters and terrorist. It was laid out pretty clearly. The influences that he has had all through the years is simply unreal. The "Goddamn America" comment by jeremiah Wright is only the beginning of what that man has said.

Obama, IMO, has a desire to, through subtle manipulation, take America to a radical end.

I am writing this to all those in the swing states. Please consider the ramifications to your decision to vote third party. It could have dire consequenses..
I know how people feel about "scare tactics" and that this is what the "two party" system uses to promote the lesses of two evils but that does not mean there is not real evil.

I know that people here think other people voting for mccain are sheeple and that they are victims of collectivism. I understant this point of view and agree with it to some extent. But there seems to be a certain amount of collectivism in the RP movement but of course that means that collectivism and group think is OK when it is your own.

As I said I am not interested in flames or arguing. Discussion without the name calling is welcome.

There is a legitimate and real evil that exists in the world from what I've been noticing.

However please keep in mind that an evil puppetmaster has 2 hands.

CountryMe
10-05-2008, 08:42 PM
You may sincerely believe you are a Ron Paul supporter but in my opinion you are not or you would had listened when Ron Paul said he did not support McCain as he can not support someone that does not represent his views! Same for me, I can not vote for someone that does not represent my views! And when McCain said he had always aspired to be a dictator, his words, not mind, only let me know he is not for less government and more freedoms!

Orgoonian
10-05-2008, 08:42 PM
Hey guys and girls,

As some of you know, I am a Ron Paul Supporter but a McCain/Palin voter. Now I know how that enrages some of you and I am not interested in debating the virtues of lesser of two evils (been there done that).

I have a background on the forums of trying to get people here to win people over to the RP way of thinking using a little wisdom instead of the usual cursing, vitrial and snow ball throwing.

I just watch Hannity's America on FOX (it comes back on at 11:00 pm central). It is unbelievable the ties obama has to socialism, islamic sympathisers, the PLO, Louis farrakhan, america haters and terrorist. It was laid out pretty clearly. The influences that he has had all through the years is simply unreal. The "Goddamn America" comment by jeremiah Wright is only the beginning of what that man has said.

Obama, IMO, has a desire to, through subtle manipulation, take America to a radical end.

I am writing this to all those in the swing states. Please consider the ramifications to your decision to vote third party. It could have dire consequenses..
I know how people feel about "scare tactics" and that this is what the "two party" system uses to promote the lesses of two evils but that does not mean there is not real evil.

I know that people here think other people voting for mccain are sheeple and that they are victims of collectivism. I understant this point of view and agree with it to some extent. But there seems to be a certain amount of collectivism in the RP movement but of course that means that collectivism and group think is OK when it is your own.

As I said I am not interested in flames or arguing. Discussion without the name calling is welcome.

Now,fulfill your destiny,and enlist!

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t322/orgoonian/SithMcCain.jpg

D.H.
10-05-2008, 08:42 PM
I remember Hannity saying that Ron Paul had "fringe" connections. How many times did they mention Alex Jones.

If you didn't know any better and listened to him about this same time last year you would have thought all of Ron Paul's supporters were nuts.

I also remember that he said we somehow rigged online polls - like the ones on Fox he couldn't believe.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:42 PM
Hmmm...well, a long winded diatribe is out of order here.

The bailout bill, an O-bomb-a presidency...

Worse is Better.

Well that is an opinion isnt it... no facts... or reference to facts.

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 08:43 PM
Well that is an opinion isnt it... no facts... or reference to facts.

And your stance is made up of facts? No, it's your opinion.

LibertyForAll
10-05-2008, 08:47 PM
I remember Hannity saying that Ron Paul had "fringe" connections. How many times did they mention Alex Jones.

If you didn't know any better and listened to him about this same time last year you would have thought all of Ron Paul's supporters were nuts.

I also remember that he said we somehow rigged online polls - like the ones on Fox he couldn't believe.

Exactly. How in the HELL anyone can watch Fox or Hannity's Insanity and actually suck up that garbage is beyond me.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:47 PM
Hannity is the biggest tool ever. He claims we should have a never ending empire and control spending at the same time. He is a lunitic and doesn't understand basic economics. As bad as socialism is, at a macro-level it is just a re-investment in the country we take some taxes here and give them back to our country. War takes those same taxes and sets them on fire. Obama is bad, but McCain is no better. The GOP has no principle except do whatever it takes to stay in power.

You are a disgrace to these forums.

Thanks for your support..

Hannity is a human being that you dis-agree with.. I disagree with things he has to say too. You opinion is that McCain is no better. Mine is he is somewhat better.. I have defended my position in other threads concerning the supreme court and dont need to go over this anymore.

Do you really think RP would call me a disgrace for having a different opinon? I don't think so. He might disagree but I don't think at this point he would resort to namecalling.

RJB
10-05-2008, 08:49 PM
This is a joke right?

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:49 PM
http://www.blogadilla.com/img/mccain1908.jpg

No substance at all

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:49 PM
It never does. :)

Oh haha... so funny...:eek:

RSLudlum
10-05-2008, 08:50 PM
I have to disagree with you, I like neither Obama nor McCain. Both are for nation building which BTW Hannity is for now, but was adamently against during the Clinton admin. Why exactly did he change his tune?? Both want to continue the Carter Doctrine which I'm against. I'd like to hear either of those two candidates and Hannity admit that they agree with Jimmy Carter.

I got one question for you though: EndTheFed supports McCain, but does McCain support End(ing)theFed??

Vote how you like, but you have no convert here ;)

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:51 PM
It is my right to do with my vote what I will. The ramifications of a McClaim/Obomination win are the all the same, in my reasoning. There is an evil presence that has already taken over our country which will be fueled equally by McClaim or Obomination in the White House.

When you choose the lesser of two evils, you still choose evil. I will do no such thing.

I will accept the consequences and go down doing the right thing for the right reasons. Voting for either of these two evil men is not doing the right thing.


No one is trying to take away your right to vote how you will. It is simply an appeal to your intelect, which I also have a right to do which I would think thwt you would agree with my freedom of speach.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:55 PM
There is a legitimate and real evil that exists in the world from what I've been noticing.

However please keep in mind that an evil puppetmaster has 2 hands.

Yes this is the analogy I use most to illustrate this point but MOST of the time one arm is stronger and more skilled at bringing about ahat it wants and in this election one of these two arms are going to be elected. we have no real choice of another arm.

lasenorita
10-05-2008, 08:57 PM
I am writing this to all those in the swing states. Please consider the ramifications to your decision to vote for McCain.
It will have dire consequences...

While I understand that you've come to the conclusion that Obama is the penultimate evil, I don't think that you yet fully realize that McCain is lock-in-step right beside him on that scale.

They are both interventionists. They will both expand the wars and maintain the trillion dollar deficits. They both have very shady connections to influential people. They both have/had/will have controversial figures in their lives. And consider this: Obama and McCain will continue to carry out the wishes and expand the powers of the Federal Reserve System.

Sure, rant all you want about Obama. Put up NObama stickers in your car, write anti-Obama letters to the editor of your local newspaper, and watch Hannity's America to confirm your beliefs. But to even consider voting for McCain -- as if he's the real alternative -- is dangerous and illogical, imho.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 08:59 PM
You may sincerely believe you are a Ron Paul supporter but in my opinion you are not or you would had listened when Ron Paul said he did not support McCain as he can not support someone that does not represent his views! Same for me, I can not vote for someone that does not represent my views! And when McCain said he had always aspired to be a dictator, his words, not mind, only let me know he is not for less government and more freedoms!

You will NEVER agree with any one completely on every subject... Call me what you will. I KNOW the issues RP stands up for, infact I have been knowledgeable about the FED issues for many years. I DO support RP ideas. I talk to people everyday about them and try to win them over. In fact one of the hardest problem I have to overcome in talking to people are the damn stupid ass RP supporters that have NO sense. (Obviously not all included).

angelatc
10-05-2008, 09:01 PM
Hey guys and girls,

As some of you know, I am a Ron Paul Supporter but a McCain/Palin voter. Now I know how that enrages some of you and I am not interested in debating the virtues of lesser of two evils (been there done that).

Do you understand that most of us support what Ron Paul is trying to do, and we want to help him advance his agenda?

Sheesh.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:03 PM
I remember Hannity saying that Ron Paul had "fringe" connections. How many times did they mention Alex Jones.

If you didn't know any better and listened to him about this same time last year you would have thought all of Ron Paul's supporters were nuts.

I also remember that he said we somehow rigged online polls - like the ones on Fox he couldn't believe.

I remember all of these thing and had a very vile reaction to them too.

SO I guess we gave him no "Blowback" material by throwing snowballs at him. You wonder why RP supporters have a reputation of being nuts... Hmmm

Yea... that is a good idea.. chase and throw snowballs at the guy who talks to 20 million people a day... Please don't be my campaign advisor...

BTW I have never heard him link RP to Alex Jones... Don't know if he has.. but I have never heard it.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:06 PM
And your stance is made up of facts? No, it's your opinion.

Well in the other threads about Supreme court and others have facts..
Ths program I referenced has facts...

Why don't you check the program out and then refute the facts.

Anti Federalist
10-05-2008, 09:07 PM
Well that is an opinion isnt it... no facts... or reference to facts.

I had a whole bunch of "facts" ready to post, and deleted them.

Why post facts to someone trolling for a response? You'd just disagree or argue with them anyway.

Or to someone who is suffering under the delusion that I care what happens to the rickety structure that has become Amerika?

Worse is Better. The faster the wheels fall off and the worse things get, the faster it can all fall apart, so that then we can rebuild or secede.

Vote for Mickey fucking Mouse for all I care.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:07 PM
Exactly. How in the HELL anyone can watch Fox or Hannity's Insanity and actually suck up that garbage is beyond me.

Because I am not a RP sheeple.. I don't participate in collectivism and group think... even RP group think. I think for myself... cant you?

angelatc
10-05-2008, 09:08 PM
Ron Paul is friends with Alex Jones, who thinks Bush is a alien.
Ron Paul has a lot of supporters who believe that 911 was an inside job.
Ron Paul has a lot of supporters who are known KKK members or white supremacists.
Ron Paul has a lot of crap like Obama does.

Obama is getting all of this crap simply cause hes black, he has an Arab name, hes the only senator who is black in the Senate, he is successful, and he is a Harvard Law graduate, they're scared they might have a smart man in the white house.
based on Barack Obama's intelligence I casted my vote for him yesterday through absentee.

Hurrah for you. You committed voter fraud and betrayed the movement.

Obama has accomplished absolutely nothing significant in his political life except getting nominated for President. He is a man who affected absolutely no change thus far, yet he's been paid millions for his self-serving memoirs?

Sorry. But you suck. There, I said it.

OferNave
10-05-2008, 09:09 PM
This guy opened the thread by saying that he's voting for McCain, and is familiar with the lessor of two evils is still evil argument, but is not swayed by it.

In other words, there's no reason to open conversation with him. Every post in this thread represents the time of real patriots that EndTheFed tricked into wasting.

The only redeeming value in this thread is getting to watch EndTheFed thrashed.

That, and the Ingredients: Win photo.

angelatc
10-05-2008, 09:10 PM
I don't participate in collectivism and group think...

I know a lot of people like that. Yawn....

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:11 PM
I have to disagree with you, I like neither Obama nor McCain. Both are for nation building which BTW Hannity is for now, but was adamently against during the Clinton admin. Why exactly did he change his tune?? Both want to continue the Carter Doctrine which I'm against. I'd like to hear either of those two candidates and Hannity admit that they agree with Jimmy Carter.

I got one question for you though: EndTheFed supports McCain, but does McCain support End(ing)theFed??

Vote how you like, but you have no convert here ;)

I don't know for sure how he feels about the FED but I would assume it is not high on his list. that is not the point. McCain is not for socialism and not for facism at least he doesnt think so. One of the two will be president.. McCain will be less of a problem for the RP movements goals that obama.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:15 PM
While I understand that you've come to the conclusion that Obama is the penultimate evil, I don't think that you yet fully realize that McCain is lock-in-step right beside him on that scale.

They are both interventionists. They will both expand the wars and maintain the trillion dollar deficits. They both have very shady connections to influential people. They both have/had/will have controversial figures in their lives. And consider this: Obama and McCain will continue to carry out the wishes and expand the powers of the Federal Reserve System.

Sure, rant all you want about Obama. Put up NObama stickers in your car, write anti-Obama letters to the editor of your local newspaper, and watch Hannity's America to confirm your beliefs. But to even consider voting for McCain -- as if he's the real alternative -- is dangerous and illogical, imho.

Thanks for your opinion and your respectful tone. It does the movement good.

As I said I do see SOME differences that are important.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:18 PM
Do you understand that most of us support what Ron Paul is trying to do, and we want to help him advance his agenda?

Sheesh.

Sure I do... And I am too. everyday. But I will not be involved in ANY group think.. I take in facts and process them and come to my own conclusions. I get fact from many sources and sort through the bs on ALL sides... that is how I camre to support RP .

angelatc
10-05-2008, 09:19 PM
Sure I do... And I am too. everyday. But I will not be involved in ANY group think.. I take in facts and process them and come to my own conclusions. I get fact from many sources and sort through the bs on ALL sides... that is how I camre to support RP .

Except that you don't, really.

You're such a free thinker that you don't even make sense. Congrats, or whatever...

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:20 PM
Ron Paul is friends with Alex Jones, who thinks Bush is a alien.
Ron Paul has a lot of supporters who believe that 911 was an inside job.
Ron Paul has a lot of supporters who are known KKK members or white supremacists.
Ron Paul has a lot of crap like Obama does.

Obama is getting all of this crap simply cause hes black, he has an Arab name, hes the only senator who is black in the Senate, he is successful, and he is a Harvard Law graduate, they're scared they might have a smart man in the white house.
based on Barack Obama's intelligence I casted my vote for him yesterday through absentee.

It ain't just because he is black...

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:22 PM
This guy opened the thread by saying that he's voting for McCain, and is familiar with the lessor of two evils is still evil argument, but is not swayed by it.

In other words, there's no reason to open conversation with him. Every post in this thread represents the time of real patriots that EndTheFed tricked into wasting.

The only redeeming value in this thread is getting to watch EndTheFed thrashed.

That, and the Ingredients: Win photo.

Damn... You are going to win so many to the RP movement

CountryMe
10-05-2008, 09:23 PM
You will NEVER agree with any one completely on every subject... Call me what you will. I KNOW the issues RP stands up for, infact I have been knowledgeable about the FED issues for many years. I DO support RP ideas. I talk to people everyday about them and try to win them over. In fact one of the hardest problem I have to overcome in talking to people are the damn stupid ass RP supporters that have NO sense. (Obviously not all included).

You are right we won't agree with everything with any candidate but the bottom line is I will never support another candidate again that is not for our freedoms and/or is allowing any of them to be taken away! Big Pharma is in the pockets of Republicans and yes, Democrats, too, and many parents are being forced to drug their children with dangerous psychiatric drugs or lose their children. Oh yes, that is a fact! Dr. Fred Baughman, Board Certified Neurologist, Pediatric Neurologist can verify that for anyone in disbelief, and I have no problem with someone that wants psychiatry but as long as there is creditable doctors which there is as well as there are even some psychiatrists that do not believe in forced psychiatry, then it should never be forced. I have no problem with medical doctors as most all of them agree with their diagnoses and treatments! Ron Paul has addressed this issue and is also against the forced psychiatry and forced mental health screening. I am also for bringing our troops home which McCain is clearly not for. So, it's not just the Fed issue!! No, I won't vote for a man that aspires to be a dictator, and that allows our freedoms to be taken away as well as wants wars to continue no matter how much it costs us. Again, I don't believe you are a Ron Paul supporter. But I don't have to believe it. You know whether or not you are! How can you be when you will be voting for a man that represents such opposite views of Ron Paul.

smileylovesfreedom
10-05-2008, 09:23 PM
No thank you.

McCain will not stand up to military intervention - foreign and domestic! He'll just pretend that there are millions of "terrorists" and continue to scare the public to justify robbing everyone of their liberties.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:24 PM
End, I must admit I watch Hannitys America occasionally, believe me i stopped when all i heard was radical Islam in America, this guy is truly sickening, and is spreading fear into the heart of the American people, when he has Ann Coulture on who calls Arabs towel heads, which is equivalent to calling a black person a ******, how can you watch it? I watched it a couple of times but man it really is sickening, watch Laura Ingrahm or Bill Oreilly they're at least better than Hannity.

Hmmm so she calls non- specific people towel head... and that is bad...

people here say the things they say to me and call me everything but good and I am suppose to be convinced by this argument.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:26 PM
Except that you don't, really.

You're such a free thinker that you don't even make sense. Congrats, or whatever...


How do you know what I do and what I don't do?

I talk to people everyday about the fed.. the irs.. and such..

what doesn't make sense?

Flash
10-05-2008, 09:27 PM
Hmmm so she calls non- specific people towel head... and that is bad...

people here say the things they say to me and call me everything but good and I am suppose to be convinced by this argument.

The Imperialists called the Germans krauts in their time so I guess they're just following the trend.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:28 PM
I know..... thats why I named a few more, maybe because his father was a born Muslim, Obama lived in Indonesia for a while, his name is Barack Hussein Obama, just to name a few.....

Race has to do with a lot of things.

No... I think he is basically a radical socialist...

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:32 PM
... No, I won't vote for a man that aspires to be a dictator, and that allows our freedoms to be taken away ... Again, I don't believe you are a Ron Paul supporter. But I don't have to believe it. You know whether or not you are! How can you be when you will be voting for a man that represents such opposite views of Ron Paul.

So you wil let one wh wants all this and is a socialist to boot.

I have been on these forums a long time... I supported RP until he "downsized" his campaign... I still support his ideas and try to educate people to the princioles... beleive it or not.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:33 PM
No thank you.

McCain will not stand up to military intervention - foreign and domestic! He'll just pretend that there are millions of "terrorists" and continue to scare the public to justify robbing everyone of their liberties.

Maybe... but Obama will do all these things and move us toward socialism to boot.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:34 PM
The Imperialists called the Germans krauts in their time so I guess they're just following the trend.

Well I havent been gassing any jews lately...

Monolithic
10-05-2008, 09:34 PM
Maybe... but Obama will do all these things and move us toward socialism to boot.

but but but

it doesn't matter who's the lesser evil

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:36 PM
and i think McCain is a radical fascist...

I dont think so... at least as far as he knows... I think obama does know...

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:36 PM
are you sure............ you only think hes a socialist??

Nooo there is a lot more.... but that is good enough..

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 09:38 PM
Gotta go to the store... be back shortly...

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 09:52 PM
Gotta go to the store... be back shortly...

http://ryepup.unwashedmeme.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/infinite-recursion.jpg

heavenlyboy34
10-05-2008, 09:54 PM
Hannity's show is a farce, just like Billy O's. Why people take Fox news seriously, I don't know. :confused: It's more pathetic than almost all the leftist media hacks.

nodope0695
10-05-2008, 10:01 PM
If you are/were truly a Ron Paul supporter, and had any inkling of what he and his movement stand for, YOU COULD NOT SUPPORT McCAIN!!!

LEAVE TROLL. LEAVE!!!:mad:

CountryMe
10-05-2008, 10:06 PM
ANY OF US that vote third party, does not vote for McCain or Obama is not
helping Obama to get elected and is not helping McCain get elected whichever
the case may be!

That does not even make sense for you to imply we are helping Obama get
elected! ONLY THE ONES VOTING FOR HIM will be helping him to get
elected, period! And if McCain wins, it will be ONLY THE ONES VOTING
FOR HIM that helps him get elected. I am not helping either one get
elected when I don't vote for either one, period!

Ok, you feel good voting for someone that is taking our freedoms away
regardless of who it is, go vote! And if any more of your or my freedoms
gets taken away you will be the one that helped it, not me or anyone
else that does not vote for McCain or Obama!

Have a good one! That is the end of my discussion in this matter. You
know my views and I know yours.

nodope0695
10-05-2008, 10:10 PM
ANY OF US that vote third party, does not vote for McCain or Obama is not
helping Obama to get elected and is not helping McCain get elected whichever
the case may be!

That does not even make sense for you to imply we are helping Obama get
elected! ONLY THE ONES VOTING FOR HIM will be helping him to get
elected, period! And if McCain wins, it will be ONLY THE ONES VOTING
FOR HIM that helps him get elected. I am not helping either one get
elected when I don't vote for either one, period!

Ok, you feel good voting for someone that is taking our freedoms away
regardless of who it is, go vote! And if any more of your or my freedoms
gets taken away you will be the one that helped it, not me or anyone
else that does not vote for McCain or Obama!

Have a good one! That is the end of my discussion in this matter. You
know my views and I know yours.

+1

And, I might add that this person, "EndTheFed" seems to be a sign of desperation on the McCain front. Clearly this person is a McCain/Palin plant, and is trying to garner votes from the Liberty Movement.

I am convinced this EndTheFed person is nothing more than a shill, a TROLL, and a McCain campainer.

nodope0695
10-05-2008, 10:12 PM
Gotta go to the store... be back shortly...

What, you going to go put up some McCain/Palin signs?

nodope0695
10-05-2008, 10:14 PM
http://texasholdemblogger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/do-not-feed-the-trolls.jpg

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 10:14 PM
What, you going to go put up some McCain/Palin signs?

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/political-pictures-stephen-colbert-epic-win.jpg

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 10:23 PM
Hannity's show is a farce, just like Billy O's. Why people take Fox news seriously, I don't know. :confused: It's more pathetic than almost all the leftist media hacks.

No the real problem is you need to know how to filter the information for truth... just like any information... including from RP people..

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 10:27 PM
+1

And, I might add that this person, "EndTheFed" seems to be a sign of desperation on the McCain front. Clearly this person is a McCain/Palin plant, and is trying to garner votes from the Liberty Movement.

I am convinced this EndTheFed person is nothing more than a shill, a TROLL, and a McCain campainer.

You are uninformed. I have been on these forums a long time... I am involved in our RP meetup group and I supported RP and still educate people to it...

Your paranoia is getting to you...
Put your tin foil hat back on.....

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 10:28 PM
What, you going to go put up some McCain/Palin signs?

:)

tropicangela
10-05-2008, 10:30 PM
I stand by my vow to never, ever vote for McCain. Not turning me. What you do is your business. Why bother?

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 10:31 PM
I stand by my vow to never, ever vote for McCain. Not turning me. What you do is your business. Why bother?

No problem ....

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 10:32 PM
Hey... who moved the thread... it is fine... i understand but I would like to know who is the moderator... like to talk...

heavenlyboy34
10-05-2008, 10:40 PM
No the real problem is you need to know how to filter the information for truth... just like any information... including from RP people..

+20 Sadly, most people aren't willing to seek out unbiased info like most folks here on RPF. :(

heavenlyboy34
10-05-2008, 10:42 PM
You are uninformed. I have been on these forums a long time... I am involved in our RP meetup group and I supported RP and still educate people to it...

Your paranoia is getting to you...
Put your tin foil hat back on.....

What better time in recent history has been more appropriate for paranoia than ours, though? :eek: Be ever vigilant! :D

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 10:48 PM
+20 Sadly, most people aren't willing to seek out unbiased info like most folks here on RPF. :(

MM was this a joke? If your try to say anything here ther the "group" doesnt agree with you get massecered (sp).

There are good people here but there are a lot of complete jerks.

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 10:49 PM
What better time in recent history has been more appropriate for paranoia than ours, though? :eek: Be ever vigilant! :D

Well you have a point...

hehe

Charles Wilson
10-05-2008, 10:56 PM
Hey guys and girls,

As some of you know, I am a Ron Paul Supporter but a McCain/Palin voter. Now I know how that enrages some of you and I am not interested in debating the virtues of lesser of two evils (been there done that).

I have a background on the forums of trying to get people here to win people over to the RP way of thinking using a little wisdom instead of the usual cursing, vitrial and snow ball throwing.

I just watch Hannity's America on FOX (it comes back on at 11:00 pm central). It is unbelievable the ties obama has to socialism, islamic sympathisers, the PLO, Louis farrakhan, america haters and terrorist. It was laid out pretty clearly. The influences that he has had all through the years is simply unreal. The "Goddamn America" comment by jeremiah Wright is only the beginning of what that man has said.

Obama, IMO, has a desire to, through subtle manipulation, take America to a radical end.

I am writing this to all those in the swing states. Please consider the ramifications to your decision to vote third party. It could have dire consequenses..
I know how people feel about "scare tactics" and that this is what the "two party" system uses to promote the lesses of two evils but that does not mean there is not real evil.

I know that people here think other people voting for mccain are sheeple and that they are victims of collectivism. I understant this point of view and agree with it to some extent. But there seems to be a certain amount of collectivism in the RP movement but of course that means that collectivism and group think is OK when it is your own.

As I said I am not interested in flames or arguing. Discussion without the name calling is welcome.

Interesting, you claim to support Ron Paul but you support John McCain. I do not think you will find very many folks posting on this site -- including Ron Paul -- who will ever support McCain or Obama. They are both owned by the same masters. Check out their financial supporters listed on DailyPaul -- I think you know that. BTW: Hannity is a fascist, as are many of the other commentators on Fox News. You seem to have those leanings as well. :cool:

heavenlyboy34
10-05-2008, 11:09 PM
MM was this a joke? If your try to say anything here ther the "group" doesnt agree with you get massecered (sp).

There are good people here but there are a lot of complete jerks.

Just going by experience. I have opinions that sometimes aren't popular here. However, I try to be rational and intellectual. I usually get thoughtful replies most of the time. :D Maybe I'm just lucky. ;):D

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 11:10 PM
You are uninformed. I have been on these forums a long time... I am involved in our RP meetup group and I supported RP and still educate people to it...

Your paranoia is getting to you...
Put your tin foil hat back on.....


http://www.lolpats.com/images/epic_fail.jpg

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 11:12 PM
Interesting, you claim to support Ron Paul but you support John McCain. I do not think you will find very many folks posting on this site -- including Ron Paul -- who will ever support McCain or Obama. They are both owned by the same masters. Check out their financial supporters listed on DailyPaul -- I think you know that. BTW: Hannity is a fascist, as are many of the other commentators on Fox News. You seem to have those leanings as well. :cool:


Where are my "fascious" leanings... I have explained my reasoning for supporting RP and votin mcCain..

for the record one of my biggest personal projects is ditributing as many copies of Freedom to Fascism I can..

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 11:14 PM
http://www.lolpats.com/images/epic_fail.jpg

Has No basis..

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 11:17 PM
Has No basis..

http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/6134/0/Epic_Fail.ashx

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 11:20 PM
http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/6134/0/Epic_Fail.ashx

Has no basis

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 11:21 PM
Has no basis

http://onlylol.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/wrong.jpg

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 11:27 PM
http://onlylol.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/wrong.jpg

Hmmm I would think that a person against the war would think he was doing it right...

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 11:30 PM
Hmmm I would think that a person against the war would think he was doing it right...

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/CJ_H/EPICFAIL.png

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 11:38 PM
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/CJ_H/EPICFAIL.png

mmm very nice picture...

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 11:43 PM
mmm very nice picture...

http://www.forumspile.com/Flame-You-Lose-I_win.jpg

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 11:48 PM
http://www.forumspile.com/Flame-You-Lose-I_win.jpg

Win the battle... lost the war...

tonesforjonesbones
10-05-2008, 11:52 PM
end..I'm with you. I am a Ron Paul supporter and also voting McCain Palin because Obama is DANGEROUS. Tones

ClockwiseSpark
10-05-2008, 11:54 PM
end..I'm with you. I am a Ron Paul supporter and also voting McCain Palin because Obama is DANGEROUS. Tones

http://packphour.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/common-sense.jpg

EndTheFed
10-05-2008, 11:55 PM
end..I'm with you. I am a Ron Paul supporter and also voting McCain Palin because Obama is DANGEROUS. Tones

Thank you.... mans this is tough... I really wish these RP supporters (most of them) would reason with people instead of putting stupid pictures up and mking this their best arguments....

If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance... baffle them with your BS..

:)

heavenlyboy34
10-05-2008, 11:57 PM
end..I'm with you. I am a Ron Paul supporter and also voting McCain Palin because Obama is DANGEROUS. Tones

Now I wish voting actually mattered so I would have a reason to take the time to argue with you. :rolleyes: Do as you will, but know that when the shit hits the fan, you were part of the problem, not the solution.

ClockwiseSpark
10-06-2008, 12:00 AM
Now I wish voting actually mattered so I would have a reason to take the time to argue with you. :rolleyes: Do as you will, but know that when the shit hits the fan, you were part of the problem, not the solution.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-racoon-yes.jpg

Proctor
10-06-2008, 12:01 AM
Sean Hannity is a fascist. I don't wish death upon anybody, but this man is an exception. He spews nothing but lies, propaganda and has brainwashed the people I love. This man should be taken by revolutionaries, put into a prison and sentenced to death. He is what makes this country as bad as it is now.

Sean Hannity, you are NOT a good American.

heavenlyboy34
10-06-2008, 12:02 AM
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-racoon-yes.jpg

lol, cute pic :)

heavenlyboy34
10-06-2008, 12:03 AM
sean hannity is a fascist. I don't wish death upon anybody, but this man is an exception. He spews nothing but lies, propaganda and has brainwashed the people i love. This man should be taken by revolutionaries, put into a prison and sentenced to death. He is what makes this country as bad as it is now.

Sean hannity, you are not a good american.

+1776

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 12:04 AM
Now I wish voting actually mattered so I would have a reason to take the time to argue with you. :rolleyes: Do as you will, but know that when the shit hits the fan, you were part of the problem, not the solution.

My goal is to help the shit not hit the fan until the movement is numbers are large enough to make a difference...

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 12:07 AM
Sean Hannity is a fascist. I don't wish death upon anybody, but this man is an exception. He spews nothing but lies, propaganda and has brainwashed the people I love. This man should be taken by revolutionaries, put into a prison and sentenced to death. He is what makes this country as bad as it is now.

Sean Hannity, you are NOT a good American.

Where is the evidence he is a fascist?

I dont agree with everything he does/says but a fascist?

I have met him. I listened to his first talk show for several years in huntsville, AL before he "made it" I know what he thinks based on those years. I have talked with him at his remotes..

So where is the evidence?

RickyJ
10-06-2008, 12:25 AM
As some of you know, I am a Ron Paul Supporter but a McCain/Palin voter.

The two don't go together. Ron Paul does not support McCain or Obama and wants people that do support him to vote third party or do not vote at all. True Ron Paul supporters would never vote for either McCain or Obama. They are the same and would do the same if elected.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 12:31 AM
The two don't go together. Ron Paul does not support McCain or Obama and wants people that do support him to vote third party or do not vote at all. True Ron Paul supporters would never vote for either McCain or Obama. They are the same and would do the same if elected.

Yes comrad.......

Hmmmmm can you say... collectivism... group think...

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 12:45 AM
Hmmmm

see this

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=161287

anaconda
10-06-2008, 01:12 AM
Why would anyone want to vote for the two puppets that the military/industrial/media complex throws in your face every four years? It makes no sense. Period. To vote for either of these is never in the best interests of the voters. Ever. So, why do they continue to do it? The only solution at the ballot box is to vote for some other candidate. To the extent that so many voters fall for this dog-and-pony show is a great testament to how suckered most everyone is. For the life of me, I do not understand why it is not far more popular to vote against the Republicans and the Democrats? It seems like it should be this really hip and trendy thing to do. Like it should be a sweeping trend nation-wide....

Can anyone help me understand this. I'm not just waxing philosophic here. I really and truly don't get it.

Proctor
10-06-2008, 01:18 AM
Where is the evidence he is a fascist?

I dont agree with everything he does/says but a fascist?

I have met him. I listened to his first talk show for several years in huntsville, AL before he "made it" I know what he thinks based on those years. I have talked with him at his remotes..

So where is the evidence?

Things must go in and out the other ear for you. This man is a lying, cheating, good for nothing fascist. He wants nothing but personal gain and is controlled by a universal current administration agenda.

ClockwiseSpark
10-06-2008, 01:27 AM
Where is the evidence he is a fascist?

So where is the evidence?

Ask and you shall receive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQIlNVbttuM

mitty
10-06-2008, 05:11 AM
Hey guys and girls,

As some of you know, I am a Ron Paul Supporter but a McCain/Palin voter. Now I know how that enrages some of you and I am not interested in debating the virtues of lesser of two evils (been there done that).

I have a background on the forums of trying to get people here to win people over to the RP way of thinking using a little wisdom instead of the usual cursing, vitrial and snow ball throwing.

I just watch Hannity's America on FOX (it comes back on at 11:00 pm central). It is unbelievable the ties obama has to socialism, islamic sympathisers, the PLO, Louis farrakhan, america haters and terrorist. It was laid out pretty clearly. The influences that he has had all through the years is simply unreal. The "Goddamn America" comment by jeremiah Wright is only the beginning of what that man has said.

Obama, IMO, has a desire to, through subtle manipulation, take America to a radical end.

I am writing this to all those in the swing states. Please consider the ramifications to your decision to vote third party. It could have dire consequenses..
I know how people feel about "scare tactics" and that this is what the "two party" system uses to promote the lesses of two evils but that does not mean there is not real evil.

I know that people here think other people voting for mccain are sheeple and that they are victims of collectivism. I understant this point of view and agree with it to some extent. But there seems to be a certain amount of collectivism in the RP movement but of course that means that collectivism and group think is OK when it is your own.

As I said I am not interested in flames or arguing. Discussion without the name calling is welcome.

i notice you complaining about no rational discourse around these parts. i agree. however people would take you more seriously if you
a) didn't believe everything republican party hack hannity says (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFyBQOZkPIY)
b) didn't watch the republican party channel fox news (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXmZvw24dhI)
c) didn't think john mccain is less of a socialist than obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oURZEy24fwM)

angelatc
10-06-2008, 05:25 AM
end..I'm with you. I am a Ron Paul supporter and also voting McCain Palin because Obama is DANGEROUS. Tones

They're both equally dangerous. A vote for McCain is a wasted vote because McCain doesn't have a chance in hell of winning.

angelatc
10-06-2008, 05:28 AM
Things must go in and out the other ear for you. This man is a lying, cheating, good for nothing fascist. He wants nothing but personal gain and is controlled by a universal current administration agenda.

Isn't is amazing how such self-proclaimed free thinkers can come to the same exact conclusion that the status quo wanted them to?

"Ron Paul is right, but I am going to vote against everything he believes in because I too am a elitist maverick, far too complicated for you and yours to comprehend."

Whatever.

Charles Wilson
10-06-2008, 06:38 AM
Where are my "fascious" leanings... I have explained my reasoning for supporting RP and votin mcCain..

for the record one of my biggest personal projects is ditributing as many copies of Freedom to Fascism I can..

It is obvious that your support for McCain (a neocon) and diatribe against Obama (Socialist) is heavily influenced by Hannity and others on Fox News. IMO, they are all fascists. You are carrying water for those folks and that makes you guilty by association.

RickyJ
10-06-2008, 06:47 AM
Yes comrad.......

Hmmmmm can you say... collectivism... group think...


Can you say neoconned? :D

You have been conned by the media that McCain is different than Obama. They are both the same type of people. They both work for the same people and have the same goals. This sham of an election is just a show for idiots that still think we have a say in who becomes President or what bills get passed in Congress. We have no say and haven't for decades.

123tim
10-06-2008, 07:00 AM
Bomb, bomb, bomb..... bomb, bomb Iran.

123tim
10-06-2008, 07:05 AM
End the Fed,

I was just wondering who you voted for this Spring? Ron Paul or John McCain?

I mean no offense, but the wording of your first original post makes me wonder if you voted for McCain.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 07:24 AM
Why would anyone want to vote for the two puppets that the military/industrial/media complex throws in your face every four years? It makes no sense. Period. To vote for either of these is never in the best interests of the voters. Ever. So, why do they continue to do it? The only solution at the ballot box is to vote for some other candidate. To the extent that so many voters fall for this dog-and-pony show is a great testament to how suckered most everyone is. For the life of me, I do not understand why it is not far more popular to vote against the Republicans and the Democrats? It seems like it should be this really hip and trendy thing to do. Like it should be a sweeping trend nation-wide....

Can anyone help me understand this. I'm not just waxing philosophic here. I really and truly don't get it.


I was going to respond to this threadby saying then you are not paying attantion and that is my initial response but you say you really want t understand..

It is real simple to me..

The RP movement, AT THIS POINT, is not large enough to elect anyone to a national office. A protest vote will be just that and will make VERY litte difference, It will be ignored by the media... Ross Perot got over 20% of the vote... WHo remembers..

If Obama (a huge socialist) gets in, it will be MUCH worse for the RP movement t in the future and be harder to undo the harm.

We would do MUCH better by getting in the "lesser of two evils" (I know thedisdane for this but...) spend our time educating the puiblic and reparing the damage some RP followers have done to the movement by being complete idiots.
We need to build the movement and matue an grow up.

That is it

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 07:27 AM
Things must go in and out the other ear for you. This man is a lying, cheating, good for nothing fascist. He wants nothing but personal gain and is controlled by a universal current administration agenda.

I asked you for some evidence... and you accuse me of things going in one ear an out the other...

Geeeeessss


How bout just a little evidence and not RP crazies talking points.

BTW RP crazies does not include all RP followers... just the crazy ones.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 07:40 AM
Ask and you shall receive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQIlNVbttuM

Receive what? I asked for evidence that Hannity was a fascist...

Nice clip... at 4:15 hannity said he raised a lot of good points..
at 7:22 he said RP was a very principled man and he liked him.


I did not hear any evidence of fascisim...

nice try though..

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 07:44 AM
i notice you complaining about no rational discourse around these parts. i agree. however people would take you more seriously if you
a) didn't believe everything republican party hack hannity says (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFyBQOZkPIY)
b) didn't watch the republican party channel fox news (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXmZvw24dhI)
c) didn't think john mccain is less of a socialist than obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oURZEy24fwM)

a) I don't believe everything he says.. I am capable of listening to opposing views and determining what I think about it... otherwise I would have never made as decision to support RP.

b) same as a)

c) I need evidence for this one... there is lots of stuff pointing to obama being a socialist...

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 07:45 AM
a) I don't believe everything he says.. I am capable of listening to opposing views and determining what I think about it... otherwise I would have never made as decision to support RP.

b) same as a)

c) I need evidence for this one... there is lots of stuff pointing to obama being a socialist...


Isn't is amazing how such self-proclaimed free thinkers can come to the same exact conclusion that the status quo wanted them to?

"Ron Paul is right, but I am going to vote against everything he believes in because I too am a elitist maverick, far too complicated for you and yours to comprehend."

Whatever.

So should I sayyou come to the conclusion RP wants you too?

Bad argument.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 07:48 AM
It is obvious that your support for McCain (a neocon) and diatribe against Obama (Socialist) is heavily influenced by Hannity and others on Fox News. IMO, they are all fascists. You are carrying water for those folks and that makes you guilty by association.


Wrong.... I gave ONE reference to where I listened to Hannity... I actually boycotted him fo quite a while becaue of his treatment of RP.

If you can't back up your claims, stp telling me they are fascist.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 07:52 AM
End the Fed,

I was just wondering who you voted for this Spring? Ron Paul or John McCain?

I mean no offense, but the wording of your first original post makes me wonder if you voted for McCain.


I was a strong supporter of RP. I had my car plastered with RP material.. I did everything I could to get him votes...

My wife was our RP precint captain..

It is really amazng to me, the vitrial and the way people here will turn on you if you have a differing opinion. They act in a way that I don't think RP would act.

Look at the referenced interviw RP di with hannity... He wasn't calling him names and being a jerk to him.

RickyJ
10-06-2008, 07:54 AM
So should I sayyou come to the conclusion RP wants you too?

Bad argument.

That's a lot for you to say.

I have come to the same conclusion Ron Paul has voiced. Voting anything else but third party gives more legitimacy to the one party system in America. Democrats and Republicans do the same things once they are elected. Their records are nearly identical. Pretending there is a difference between them is a fools game and ignores the historical facts that there isn't. If you want to promote McCain you should do so elsewhere. This is grass roots support for the CFL. If you don't agree with the CFL's goals maybe it is time for you to leave this forum.

tonesforjonesbones
10-06-2008, 07:56 AM
I read an interview with Rupert Murdoch who clearly admitted that he decided Fox News agenda would be to prop up the Bush Administration and Foreign Policy. Sean Hannity works for Rupert Murdach. I venture to say we don't really know what Hannity personally thinks...he is doing a job. I agree with Ron Paul's foreign policy and pretty much everything else ...but, He is not running. Chuck Baldwin isn't even registering...he's going nowhere. Barr's campaign was ruined...I am supporting McCain to block Obama and the democrats because they will be a disaster. I sincerely do not believe the Constitution will survive under an Obama Administration. He's already brainwashing the youth. If ya'll can't see this...well, you will get what you deserve. I'm sure most of you think this economic crash was the fault of George Bush <eyeroll> I honestly believe Ron Paul didn't do the movement any favors by leading it down the path to nowhere. It's split all to heck. I like Ron Paul but nobody is perfect. Tones

RickyJ
10-06-2008, 08:00 AM
Look at the referenced interviw RP di with hannity... He wasn't calling him names and being a jerk to him.

Ron Paul thought it was good that Hannity was getting a lot of flak from his supporters though. Hannity is a dimwit. He knows nothing outside of his talking points and sticks to them even when he is being made a fool of on national television. Fox only keeps him because there are not too many people willing to make such a fool of themselves on TV as Hannity is. Hannity will do anything for the almighty dollar. There is nothing great about that clown. The way he treated Ron Paul and his supporters was despicable.

123tim
10-06-2008, 08:05 AM
I was a strong supporter of RP. I had my car plastered with RP material.. I did everything I could to get him votes...

My wife was our RP precint captain..

It is really amazng to me, the vitrial and the way people here will turn on you if you have a differing opinion. They act in a way that I don't think RP would act.

Look at the referenced interviw RP di with hannity... He wasn't calling him names and being a jerk to him.

I'm glad to hear this. I disagree with, but appreciate your opinion.

Regards,
Tim

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 08:13 AM
That's a lot for you to say.

I have come to the same conclusion Ron Paul has voiced. Voting anything else but third party gives more legitimacy to the one party system in America. Democrats and Republicans do the same things once they are elected. Their records are nearly identical. Pretending there is a difference between them is a fools game and ignores the historical facts that there isn't. If you want to promote McCain you should do so elsewhere. This is grass roots support for the CFL. If you don't agree with the CFL's goals maybe it is time for you to leave this forum.

I do agree with CFL's goals... I don't agree with their current tactics.

I have come to a different conclusion that you AT THIS POINT IN TIME.


Do you really want meto leave? Do you not want my support?

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 08:15 AM
I read an interview with Rupert Murdoch who clearly admitted that he decided Fox News agenda would be to prop up the Bush Administration and Foreign Policy. Sean Hannity works for Rupert Murdach. I venture to say we don't really know what Hannity personally thinks...he is doing a job. I agree with Ron Paul's foreign policy and pretty much everything else ...but, He is not running. Chuck Baldwin isn't even registering...he's going nowhere. Barr's campaign was ruined...I am supporting McCain to block Obama and the democrats because they will be a disaster. I sincerely do not believe the Constitution will survive under an Obama Administration. He's already brainwashing the youth. If ya'll can't see this...well, you will get what you deserve. I'm sure most of you think this economic crash was the fault of George Bush <eyeroll> I honestly believe Ron Paul didn't do the movement any favors by leading it down the path to nowhere. It's split all to heck. I like Ron Paul but nobody is perfect. Tones

Completely agree...

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 08:18 AM
Ron Paul thought it was good that Hannity was getting a lot of flak from his supporters though. Hannity is a dimwit. He knows nothing outside of his talking points and sticks to them even when he is being made a fool of on national television. Fox only keeps him because there are not too many people willing to make such a fool of themselves on TV as Hannity is. Hannity will do anything for the almighty dollar. There is nothing great about that clown. The way he treated Ron Paul and his supporters was despicable.

You are name calling with NO substance. RP did not call him a dmwit. He simplydisagres with him on SOME things. Hannity talks bad about RP followers NOT RP. RP followers have made asses of their selfs at times. can you say BLOWBACK?

I never said ANYTHING about hannity being great..

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 08:19 AM
I'm glad to hear this. I disagree with, but appreciate your opinion.

Regards,
Tim


Thank you and I appreciate your respectful tone... it does the movement a favor..

RickyJ
10-06-2008, 08:22 AM
You are name calling with NO substance.

Hannity being a dimwit is not name calling, it is a fact. :D

If you can't see that then maybe you are one too? :eek:

tonesforjonesbones
10-06-2008, 08:26 AM
I am going to ask this risking the ire of everyone on the forum...Is Ron Paul really an Obama fan? His decision to support Baldwin might certainly secure an Obama win. Tragic! Tones

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 08:27 AM
I am going to ask this risking the ire of everyone on the forum...Is Ron Paul really an Obama fan? His decision to support Baldwin might certainly secure an Obama win. Tragic! Tones

:eek:

heavenlyboy34
10-06-2008, 08:33 AM
I am going to ask this risking the ire of everyone on the forum...Is Ron Paul really an Obama fan? His decision to support Baldwin might certainly secure an Obama win. Tragic! Tones

In his own writings and speeches, he has said that he does not support Obama. :D

moostraks
10-06-2008, 09:01 AM
I was a strong supporter of RP...

Look at the referenced interviw RP di with hannity... He wasn't calling him names and being a jerk to him.

Since you are strictly in past tense with Paul("was a strong supporter") is your goal to try to sway us to McCain because you are a McCain supporter. You cannot support both unless you are schizophrenic. Most of us here are still Paul supporters. It wasn't about the man but the principals. Someone voting for McCain has sold out principals to fear mongering bs that keeps the impression that a two(really one) party system is being maintained by the voting public.(the Oz illusion)Lesser of two evils is a fallacious discussion meant to create contempt and induce fear of the opposition in a controled scenario. Something that really should not exist since the ballots aren't in yet and there really are more than two candidates on the ballot.

So you don't like the company Obama keeps, have you realized what depraved nature McCain has? If you can be swayed by FOX to see Obama's evil then why not McCain's? Bomb bomb Iran? The wife he ditched because she was not what he signed up for when he married her? The POWs he sold down the river? You bought the spin. McCain is a tool and did not get the nod by fair election. Anyone who went through the delegate process will confirm this if they sat through it and saw what we saw in the belly of conservatism, Cobb County Georgia. It was sickening...You would have to be blind or completely naive to believe that McCain isn't a tool after what we saw...

As for Hannity he is just typical southern hospitality. They teach you not to be rude to someones face. After Paul was on he made plenty of snarky, crappy comments in the snippets I have heard when I listened briefly to know thy enemy back then.

Anyone who thinks that we can be swayed by an argument posed by the FOX network never really understood how deep the contempt goes for the network and its top "reporters/commentators". Without trust for where the information comes from then you have already lost credibilty for your argument. FOX news is an entertainment channel. Henceforth why they were capable of winning a suit that would have required them to tell the truth. Going there to retrieve actual information is illogical because it is all coated in propagandized spin thus dilluting the critical capacity of the viewer to decifer what is truth from what is illusion. You are being primed to believe how they are leading you to interpret the information and after that you will be tainted in reassessing it because of preconceived ideas. Look up Frank Luntz to see how this works. It is an effective tool.

Vote how you want to vote. However the power really isn't in the vote. The real change is in infiltrating and redeeming a corrupt system. Shaming us on our forum because your holier than thou attitude thinks some over-exuberant supporters should require constant repentance by the masses is just a way to make us think the opposition requires undue respect and a failed attempt to demoralize us.

BTW I now live in Ohio and advocate for third party voting!!!!:D

moostraks
10-06-2008, 09:04 AM
I am going to ask this risking the ire of everyone on the forum...Is Ron Paul really an Obama fan? His decision to support Baldwin might certainly secure an Obama win. Tragic! Tones

No he's really a McCain supporter and he is trying to piss off the leftists who voted for him...sheesh!!!:rolleyes:

brandon
10-06-2008, 09:08 AM
Actually that does look pretty good. Only 300 calories, but the macronutrient profile looks nice for a meal.

Is it possible to have 40g or protein and 25g of carbs in under 300 Kcal?

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 09:26 AM
Since you are strictly in past tense with Paul("was a strong supporter") ... supporters should require constant repentance by the masses is just a way to make us think the opposition requires undue respect and a failed attempt to demoralize us.

BTW I now live in Ohio and advocate for third party voting!!!!:D


First of all... i AM NOW a supporter.. but I am a McCain voter...

and Im not a schizophrenic.

The rest of your post requires no response... all of your RP talking points are tired..

I have discussed at length "lesser of two evils", "fear mongering", my ability to gether information from MANY sources including RP sources (not just FOX).

Hannity is from NY .. he is not southern... I am BTW

You are going to have a hard time infiltrating a corrupt system if you keep defending the actions of your "over-exuberant " followers.

Why don't you HELP themovement by condeming these actions and trying to get the movement to grow up.. That is ultimately what I am tryin to do.

Charles Wilson
10-06-2008, 09:38 AM
Wrong.... I gave ONE reference to where I listened to Hannity... I actually boycotted him fo quite a while becaue of his treatment of RP.

If you can't back up your claims, stp telling me they are fascist.

I suppose the definition of Fascism is in the eye of the beholder :cool:: "Fox News Fascism: Ron Paul Excluded From Debates"
Anthony Wade
OpEd News
December 29, 2007

Fox News has made its bones off of being a fake news agency. Everyone knows it. While it worked for several years the shine has begun to diminish and the people are waking up to the real damage it can do to mainstream media. Granted, most mainstream media is really no better than Fox News, as they are all corporately controlled by companies that are in bed with the war machine. MSNBC is learning the lessons now as such obviously biased hosts such as Joe Scarborough and Tucker Carlson have failed miserably next to the more honest Keith Olbermann. America is slowly coming around to the notion that news should actually be fundamentally fair. Fox of course has been notoriously unfair and imbalanced for years now. Thus it should come as no surprise that Fox News has decided to once again try to subvert the democratic process by excluding Dr. Ron Paul from their upcoming GOP debate in New Hampshire.

This is what happens when people try to laugh off the power a Fox News can have. Because they have been tolerated as being “real”; they have been at the table to host debates. The first GOP debate hosted by Fox was a lesson in bias. On the stage were eight men who were battling over who could blow the world up better, and Dr. Paul. Fox tried their best to marginalize Paul as best they could. He received half the amount of questions as everyone else. You could hear Fox jack up the volume on the other candidates’ microphones when Paul was responding so the snickering could be heard loud and clear. At one point, in a moment that should be embarrassing for news professionals everywhere, the moderator asked a follow up question to Paul that said, “So you take your marching orders from al Qaeda?” Paul swiftly slapped Chris “fake news guy” Wallace back into line by saying he took his orders from the Constitution. Yet after all of this Fox also tried to stack the post debate against Paul as well. They had seen how Dr. Paul was winning all of the online polling after each previous debate so they switched the method. Instead of voting online, you had to text in who you thought won the Fox debate. Lo and behold, Ron Paul was crushing his competition yet again, much to the dismay of Sean Hannity who exclaimed, “Oh no not again, Ron Paul did not win this debate!”

Apparently Fox has figured out how to deal with the Paul phenomena this time around though; they have excluded him from the debates altogether. Never mind that he is polling higher in New Hampshire then some of the others who were invited. Never mind that he has out performed all of his competition in fundraising, WITHOUT taking lobbyist/corporate monies. Never mind that he raised six million dollars in one day. The issue is simply to subvert democracy and have a fake news agency tell you who you can listen to for presidential candidates. It is beyond appalling, it is sickening. I do not care if you are right or left, republican or progressive; you must be disgusted by this move to try and willfully interfere with our electoral processes.

Let’s face it; we know why Fox has taken this tact. First, Ron Paul is the only one who has a different opinion then the rest of the GOP crowd. Fox wants the consistent message of the neocon sent at the debates. Iraq is going great, Iran should be blown up next, and only the big strong republicans can protect you from the boogey-man…and Hillary. Fox does not want to hear Dr. Paul injecting sanity into the debate. They do not want to hear how it is unconstitutional to go to war without congressional approval. They do not want to hear about how the country is broke and we need to pay down the debt. They do not want to hear anything that diverts from the script they have orchestrated.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the machine is scared. They are scared of the momentum they see Ron Paul generating from a real grassroots effort. They are scared of the message that says it is not ok to blow up other countries for the profit of a few. They are scared of the message that says civil liberties matter. They are scared because they see that someone may get elected who understands the precarious situation we are in with our currency. They are scared because all of their efforts to mock and marginalize, to ignore and dismiss have only further emboldened the cause for liberty.

Regardless of the reasons though, it is a dark day for our democracy when any news agency, even a fake one, can purposefully and maliciously try to affect the outcome of a presidential election. I have read that Fox News will be embarrassed if Paul ends up winning the New Hampshire primary despite this blackout. Nonsense. Fox News does not care about being embarrassed. They have been an embarrassment for a decade and they do not care. That is how Rupert Murdoch operates. He does not care about appearance or reputation. He cares only about imposing his narrow-uber-conservative view upon the world. He does not care how he does it.

I would call for a boycott of Fox News but no one really takes them seriously. Just remember this point in history America. The machine is now telling you who you can even listen to and the rest of the media is complicit in their silence over it. There are many waypoints on the road to fascism and today we are staring at yet another. Dr. Paul has warned us repeatedly about the fascist state we are heading more deeply into. I guess that message was heard loud and clear by the fascists who have no decided to try and silence him. Liberty and freedom however have a way of rising above the white noise generated by the machine that seeks to stifle them. I pray that continues to happen in the face of the blatant undermining of everything we stand for as a nation.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 09:45 AM
I suppose the definition of Fascism is in the eye of the beholder :cool:: "Fox News Fascism: Ron Paul Excluded From Debates"
Anthony Wade
OpEd News
December 29, 2007

Fox News has ... a nation.

I was appauled by RP being excluded and boycotted FO for quite a while but excluding paul does not = fascism...

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 09:58 AM
End and Tones,

I think of the millions of American voters who have been programmed to thinking like you are this election season, and I weep inside.

Of all election seasons, with the unprecedented socialistic bailout we just experienced and both McCain and Obama supported, with the continued saber rattling with Iran and Georgia/Russia that McCain and Obama talk up, with the absolutely undeniable and unforgivable way Ron Paul was treated with disdain and mockery during the primary season by the mainstream media and during the debates (those in which he was 'allowed' to participate) ---

That on top of the fact that for the last 8 years under a Republican administration and R-controlled Congress, RP principles have not only been ignored, but they have been flouted, marginalized, and outright unlegislated. In fact, the government has grown larger, LARGER!!, under the Republicans!!!!

How on earth any intelligent, Ron Paul oriented voter could ever succumb to the perpetuated 'horse-race' mentality is absolutely beyond me.

Can't you see that if everyone voted the way you do, we'll just continue to perpetuate the status quo?

Can't you see that if you and the millions of others who are thinking and voting based on your mindset would STOP, and instead change your voting pattern, and pick a third party candidate, WE COULD SHIFT AWAY FROM THE STATUS QUO DRAMATICALLY!!!

And how, praytell, does such a chain reaction start? By people like you DOING JUST THAT.

It will not happen by talking good talk, and then voting status quo, thinking that'll get 'the movement time to grow'.

The definition of insanity is DOING the same thing over and over, expecting different results. That's exactly what you're asking all of us to do.

We're saying it's time to regain our sanity by DOING something different. The insanity stops now, this year, this election.

Go tell your McCain and Obama supporters that if they really want change, they need to pick a third party and take the country back. Let's get millions of votes for Barr, Nader,..., and ZERO VOTES FOR THE STATUS QUO!!!!

...sorry for the all caps, btw...sometimes my Ron Paul passion gets mistaken for "craziness"

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 10:21 AM
End and Tones,

I think of the millions of American voters who have been programmed to thinking like you are this election season, and I weep inside.

Of all election seasons, with the unprecedented socialistic bailout we just experienced and both McCain and Obama supported, with the continued saber rattling with Iran and Georgia/Russia that McCain and Obama talk up, with the absolutely undeniable and unforgivable way Ron Paul was treated with disdain and mockery during the primary season by the mainstream media and during the debates (those in which he was 'allowed' to participate) ---

That on top of the fact that for the last 8 years under a Republican administration and R-controlled Congress, RP principles have not only been ignored, but they have been flouted, marginalized, and outright unlegislated. In fact, the government has grown larger, LARGER!!, under the Republicans!!!!

How on earth any intelligent, Ron Paul oriented voter could ever succumb to the perpetuated 'horse-race' mentality is absolutely beyond me.

Can't you see that if everyone voted the way you do, we'll just continue to perpetuate the status quo?

Can't you see that if you and the millions of others who are thinking and voting based on your mindset would STOP, and instead change your voting pattern, and pick a third party candidate, WE COULD SHIFT AWAY FROM THE STATUS QUO DRAMATICALLY!!!

And how, praytell, does such a chain reaction start? By people like you DOING JUST THAT.

It will not happen by talking good talk, and then voting status quo, thinking that'll get 'the movement time to grow'.

The definition of insanity is DOING the same thing over and over, expecting different results. That's exactly what you're asking all of us to do.

We're saying it's time to regain our sanity by DOING something different. The insanity stops now, this year, this election.

Go tell your McCain and Obama supporters that if they really want change, they need to pick a third party and take the country back. Let's get millions of votes for Barr, Nader,..., and ZERO VOTES FOR THE STATUS QUO!!!!

...sorry for the all caps, btw...sometimes my Ron Paul passion gets mistaken for "craziness"


It is amazing to me how you say we are "programmed". The more I am here the more it sees like a cult. This is NOT an outsider calling what he doesn't understand loonies and nuts... This is me ... an insider..

Everyone here spouts the RP mantra... I think for myself.

I have explainedMANY times that I am trying my best t educate outsiders.. to me a protest vote will not accomplish anything with the numbers we have at tis point... we MUST grow the movement ifwe want to make a difference and the biggest wal to doing that right now is people acting like idiots. Their actions speak volumes... They do things RP would never do...

dawnbt
10-06-2008, 10:25 AM
They are both two pieces of shit, on the same turd sandwish


LMAO! Love it!:D

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 10:34 AM
.. to me a protest vote will not accomplish anything with the numbers we have at (this) point...
programming. ask yourself why you have this opinion. dig deep.


the biggest (wall) to doing that right now is people acting like idiots. Their actions speak volumes... They do things RP would never do...
programming. ask yourself why you have this opinion. dig deep.

D.H.
10-06-2008, 10:39 AM
Fox is the news equivalent of WWF wrestling.

heavenlyboy34
10-06-2008, 10:41 AM
fox is the news equivalent of wwf wrestling.

+1 lol

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 11:11 AM
It is amazing to me how you say we are "programmed". The more I am here the more it sees like a cult. This is NOT an outsider calling what he doesn't understand loonies and nuts... This is me ... an insider..

Everyone here spouts the RP mantra... I think for myself.

I have explainedMANY times that I am trying my best t educate outsiders.. to me a protest vote will not accomplish anything with the numbers we have at tis point... we MUST grow the movement ifwe want to make a difference and the biggest wal to doing that right now is people acting like idiots. Their actions speak volumes... They do things RP would never do...

You are programmed. To say that a protest vote will not accomplish anything based on numbers?? So Rosa Parks shouldn't have refused to give her seat up on the bus? Since when do you only protest when you 'have enough numbers?' You protest when you feel you must protest. Unlike you, Mr. GOP Epitome of COLLECTIVISM, we who are independent thinkers think individually about our actions without looking for which way the political winds are blowing. You're sounding like a political junkie armchair quarterbacking a typical election discussion with a phrase like "a protest vote will not accomplish anything with the numbers we have at this point". By the way, if you really feel this way, why do you keep posting on here trying to convince people to vote for McCain?? Obviously, our meaningless protest vote must mean something to you for you to try and convince us to do otherwise.

To say that idiotic behavior is the biggest wall to growing this movement is very true -- but it's not the RP supporters behavior, it's the MSM, so-called "Conservative" talk show pundits, GOP establishment that is exhibiting the idiotic behavior. RP supporters are reacting to THEM. THEY started it.

Think about it. Many of us RP Supporters actually voted for all those hundreds of Republicans that have held office over the last decade plus. We voted for them because we wanted small, constitutional federal government, reduced spending, states rights, .... They didn't do it. Then, they rubbed it in our face by ridiculing a man who has tried, voted, written, spoken for his entire political career in favor of just these things. They did everything they could to keep us out of this election season, including namecalling, marginalizing from the get go, and rule breaking. It doesn't surprise me in the least that there was some blowback on them. RP supporters get called out for throwing snowballs, while Hannity shows his true colors by getting behind MCCAIN!?!?!?!? Oh, the irony. Idiotic behavior, indeed.

And in case you think I didn't get your meaning, I understand you were referencing the RP'ers behavior. To address that directly, if childish behavior were the only thing we had to clean up for this movement to go mainstream, believe me, this would've happened years ago. You are so programmed. You are basing failure of this movement on a few isolated events that talk shows and major media decided to blow up and use to support their rantings over and over again about just how "crazy" those RP'ers are. Wake up. If you really are one of us, you'd know that we are decent, respectful, honest, play-by-the-rules, love-this-country kind of people, and you'd know that despite our good qualities and passion for our cause, we have met with nothing but opposition of the ugliest kind, and are still moving forward. That the RP movement fails due to it's craziness is the most insidious form of programming there is. Accomplish this one thing, and no one listens to you anymore.

The RP movement fails because folks like you fall prey to these simple tactics, and then you get right back in line and yep, YOU VOTE STATUS QUO.

If this hurts, then good. Truth may hurt, but at least it lets you know you care, and you can begin to do something about it.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 11:14 AM
programming. ask yourself why you have this opinion. dig deep.


programming. ask yourself why you have this opinion. dig deep.

programming. ask yourself why you have this opinion. dig deep.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 11:15 AM
Fox is the news equivalent of WWF wrestling.

Hmmmm no substance or way to verify this...

Mini-Me
10-06-2008, 11:20 AM
<Facepalm>...how about the "strategic Obama voters" and "strategic McCain voters" in the same state seek each other out and just make a vote pact (http://www.votepact.org/) with each other? That way, you'll both vote third party and show increased dissent (which will help Joe Average think next time, "Hey, maybe I should, too?")...and that way, you won't be just canceling each others' votes out, giving vocal support to the establishment, and saying, "I'm not pissed off enough yet, and I will still tolerate this and play your game."

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 11:29 AM
<Facepalm>...how about the "strategic Obama voters" and "strategic McCain voters" in the same state seek each other out and just make a vote pact (http://www.votepact.org/) with each other? That way, you'll both vote third party and show increased dissent (which will help Joe Average think next time, "Hey, maybe I should, too?")...and that way, you won't be just canceling each others' votes out, giving vocal support to the establishment, and saying, "I'm not pissed off enough yet, and I will still tolerate this and play your game."

votepact.org/

love it.

I shared this with these two along with Phil... something on another thread - unenthusiastic response.

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 11:31 AM
<Facepalm>...how about the "strategic Obama voters" and "strategic McCain voters" in the same state seek each other out and just make a vote pact (http://www.votepact.org/) with each other? That way, you'll both vote third party and show increased dissent (which will help Joe Average think next time, "Hey, maybe I should, too?")...and that way, you won't be just canceling each others' votes out, giving vocal support to the establishment, and saying, "I'm not pissed off enough yet, and I will still tolerate this and play your game."

of course you know, to paraphrase one of the few enlightened, independent thinking ones on these boards, "there aren't enough numbers out there for this kind of protest vote to mean anything yet"
:p

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 11:32 AM
You are programmed. To say that a protest vote will not accomplish anything based on numbers?? So Rosa Parks shouldn't have refused to give her seat up on the bus? Since when do you only protest when you 'have enough numbers?' You protest when you feel you must protest. Unlike you, Mr. GOP Epitome of COLLECTIVISM, we who are independent thinkers think individually about our actions without looking for which way the political winds are blowing.

What a joke... Look in the mirror.

So should we have not fought the civil war? if not Rosa Parks would not have even been able to get on the bus.




You're sounding like a political junkie armchair quarterbacking a typical election discussion with a phrase like "a protest vote will not accomplish anything with the numbers we have at this point". By the way, if you really feel this way, why do you keep posting on here trying to convince people to vote for McCain??

The MAIN reason I keep postng hewre is to have a discussion with people about wisdon.. knowledge without wisdom is futile. People here need to grow up and mature if they want the RP movement to grow.




Obviously, our meaningless protest vote must mean something to you for you to try and convince us to do otherwise.


You are correct... it could mean MUCH harm t the RP movement and a major move in the direction of Socialism, a horrible supreme court and harm that could extend well into the future.



To say that idiotic behavior is the biggest wall to growing this movement is very true -- but it's not the RP supporters behavior, it's the MSM, so-called "Conservative" talk show pundits, GOP establishment that is exhibiting the idiotic behavior. RP supporters are reacting to THEM. THEY started it.


What a joke... certainly you dont believe this. Did you really support the snowball incident? that was really helpful wasnt it?

BTW exactly who started it?




Think about it. Many of us RP Supporters actually voted for all those hundreds of Republicans that have held office over the last decade plus. We voted for them because we wanted small, constitutional federal government, reduced spending, states rights, .... They didn't do it. Then, they rubbed it in our face by ridiculing a man who has tried, voted, written, spoken for his entire political career in favor of just these things. They did everything they could to keep us out of this election season, including namecalling, marginalizing from the get go, and rule breaking. It doesn't surprise me in the least that there was some blowback on them. RP supporters get called out for throwing snowballs, while Hannity shows his true colors by getting behind MCCAIN!?!?!?!? Oh, the irony. Idiotic behavior, indeed.


Yes itwas idiotic behavior... it HURT RP purposes.



And in case you think I didn't get your meaning, I understand you were referencing the RP'ers behavior. To address that directly, if childish behavior were the only thing we had to clean up for this movement to go mainstream, believe me, this would've happened years ago. You are so programmed. You are basing failure of this movement on a few isolated events that talk shows and major media decided to blow up and use to support their rantings over and over again about just how "crazy" those RP'ers are. Wake up. If you really are one of us, you'd know that we are decent, respectful, honest, play-by-the-rules, love-this-country kind of people, and you'd know that despite our good qualities and passion for our cause, we have met with nothing but opposition of the ugliest kind,and are still moving forward.

Yea kinda like I have been atackedhere for voicing a differentconclusion that I have come to while still supporting RP.




That the RP movement fails due to it's craziness is the most insidious form of programming there is. Accomplish this one thing, and no one listens to you anymore.

Sorry... it is from my own opinion... I think you are terribly blinded if you cant see that the programming statements dont hold water. I am not in lockstep here.. you are.




The RP movement fails because folks like you fall prey to these simple tactics, and then you get right back in line and yep, YOU VOTE STATUS QUO.

If this hurts, then good. Truth may hurt, but at least it lets you know you care, and you can begin to do something about it.

I am not hurt....

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 11:35 AM
End,

At what point will 'the numbers' get high enough for you to finally go along with the crowd and register your vote for liberty?

Do you find it interesting that, though you are of such independent thought, that you've come to the same conclusion as tens of millions of 'sheep'?

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 11:49 AM
End,
Do you really place snowballs in the same category as media marginalization, convention rule-breaking, strongarming? Are you even seeing what's happening with duly elected GOP committeemen out in CA, re: spurious lawsuits?

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 11:55 AM
End,

At what point will 'the numbers' get high enough for you to finally go along with the crowd and register your vote for liberty?

Do you find it interesting that, though you are of such independent thought, that you've come to the same conclusion as tens of millions of 'sheep'?

An you come to the same conclusion of most here.. Hmmm what des that mean?

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 12:22 PM
So End,
Your positions are:
1. RP movement needs to grow up to be effective.
2. RP movement needs to vote GOP candidate, regardless of who it is.

Can I translate this as "Shut up and get back in line"?

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 12:28 PM
End,
Were you glad that RP supporters who were delegates to the national convention either abstained or voted McCain, to allow unanimous voting for him at the convention?

Were you in favor of the GOP stifling this dissent, and other forms of dissatisfaction like waving Ron Paul signs or chanting Ron Paul?

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 12:35 PM
End,

How about our Founding Fathers? Were they collectivists? Sheeple? Yeah, they all thought the same - those blind, programmed, sheep.

Do you think our Founding Fathers would have us 'grow up', and vote for either the GOP or DEM?

Have you ever heard about the Boston Tea Party? Did it further the freedom movement, or hinder it?

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 12:41 PM
So End,
Your positions are:
1. RP movement needs to grow up to be effective.
2. RP movement needs to vote GOP candidate, regardless of who it is.

Can I translate this as "Shut up and get back in line"?

1. Yes Grow up and use a little wisdom in passing along it's knowledge and to help the movement grow.

2. Absolutely not. Where did you get thatfrom ANYTHIG I have said on thei forum anywhere.

In our (the united states) current situation, Mccain or Obama WILL be the nxt president. Mccain will be better for the US and the RP movement IMO. I don't agree with the cheerleaders for the destructiion of america so wecan then rebuild it.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 12:43 PM
End,
Were you glad that RP supporters who were delegates to the national convention either abstained or voted McCain, to allow unanimous voting for him at the convention?

No of course not... I wish there were enough to get RP as the nominee.



Were you in favor of the GOP stifling this dissent, and other forms of dissatisfaction like waving Ron Paul signs or chanting Ron Paul?

No.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 12:49 PM
End,

How about our Founding Fathers? Were they collectivists? Sheeple? Yeah, they all thought the same - those blind, programmed, sheep.


Bullshit!! you obiously don't know US history. They had a difficult time coming together and there was MUCH contention. After MUCH debate (almost to the point of blows) they came to an agreement. Everyone did not all agree everithing everyone thought. The agreement was hammered out.



Do you think our Founding Fathers would have us 'grow up', and vote for either the GOP or DEM?


You are mixing topics. The growing up has to do with RP supporters stupid acts.. Not their choice in voting.



Have you ever heard about the Boston Tea Party? Did it further the freedom movement, or hinder it?

I do not think we are at the point of revolt. That may come but not yet and if it does I do not look forward to it and no one in their right mind would.

Kade
10-06-2008, 12:53 PM
Hey guys and girls,

As some of you know, I am a Ron Paul Supporter but a McCain/Palin voter. Now I know how that enrages some of you and I am not interested in debating the virtues of lesser of two evils (been there done that).

I have a background on the forums of trying to get people here to win people over to the RP way of thinking using a little wisdom instead of the usual cursing, vitrial and snow ball throwing.

I just watch Hannity's America on FOX (it comes back on at 11:00 pm central). It is unbelievable the ties obama has to socialism, islamic sympathisers, the PLO, Louis farrakhan, america haters and terrorist. It was laid out pretty clearly. The influences that he has had all through the years is simply unreal. The "Goddamn America" comment by jeremiah Wright is only the beginning of what that man has said.

Obama, IMO, has a desire to, through subtle manipulation, take America to a radical end.

I am writing this to all those in the swing states. Please consider the ramifications to your decision to vote third party. It could have dire consequenses..
I know how people feel about "scare tactics" and that this is what the "two party" system uses to promote the lesses of two evils but that does not mean there is not real evil.

I know that people here think other people voting for mccain are sheeple and that they are victims of collectivism. I understant this point of view and agree with it to some extent. But there seems to be a certain amount of collectivism in the RP movement but of course that means that collectivism and group think is OK when it is your own.

As I said I am not interested in flames or arguing. Discussion without the name calling is welcome.

Obama is a decent man, regardless of these ridiculous and absurd claims to these people. The man himself is relatively calm and collected. He is just a reasonable politician. That is all.

McCain is not.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain/page/2

rpfan2008
10-06-2008, 12:55 PM
http://keatingeconomics.com/

http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/35321150/navy-releases-mccains-records

http://www.mccainbetrayspows.com/

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 12:56 PM
Obama is a decent man, regardless of these ridiculous and absurd claims to these people. The man himself is relatively calm and collected. He is just a reasonable politician. That is all.

McCain is not.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain/page/2

Hehe.... Joke right?

Kade
10-06-2008, 12:57 PM
Hehe.... Joke right?

No, I'm not. Get your head out of your ass and think for yourself.

It took me 45 minutes to read that article fully, and I guarantee I'm a faster reader than you. I don't expect a comment until you read that or concede that you don't think about other opinions. Either way, you only hurt yourself or save yourself.

heavenlyboy34
10-06-2008, 12:59 PM
Hehe.... Joke right?

Speaking from one from McCain's state, I think Kade is pretty accurate there. McCain is insane, if his behavior/"record" is any indication.

LJHudd
10-06-2008, 01:02 PM
I have been on these forums a long time... I supported RP until he "downsized" his campaign... I still support his ideas and try to educate people to the princioles... beleive it or not.Well - there you go... you do not support the Ron Paul movement anymore and you certainly do not represent the Ron Paul movement when you go around trying to convince people to vote for McCain.

- You say McCain is not a socialist? But, he voted FOR the bailout... he most certainly is the exact same as Obama & Bush & Pelosi etc.

- You say you don't participate in group think... but you listen to Hannity all the time and let his 'group think' ideas filter through your brain all the time. If you listen to Fox (or CNN or any of them for that matter) and talk shows like Hannity all the time, then it's no wonder you're convinced to vote for McCain. That is their job and they are successful with you.

When I first discovered Ron Paul, I turned off the TV & Radio because I realized the influence it had on me. I am free now to think clearly - without someone telling me how to think - it feels really good!

Obama and McCain - they are both very very bad for America - it will not matter which one is President, we are in for a terrible time and we will be until America wakes up and that includes folks such as yourself.

Of course, I just wasted my time, I just read georgiaboy has pretty much said the same things I have... but you `EndTheFed` will not let up - you will follow the herd - you will vote for McCain no matter what anyone says on this forum. There is no point in `discussing` anything with you.

I want my country back! It's time to take it back - one vote at a time, I'm voting 3rd Party!

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:09 PM
No, I'm not. Get your head out of your ass and think for yourself.

It took me 45 minutes to read that article fully, and I guarantee I'm a faster reader than you. I don't expect a comment until you read that or concede that you don't think about other opinions. Either way, you only hurt yourself or save yourself.

I do think for myself .. apparently more that you do... I don't need to get into a pissing contest with you abour who reads faster...

This article does NOTHING to back up your claim that obama ia a good decent man.

navyqueen- October 6, 2008
Whoever wrote this article has to be a good Democrat and hate McCain!!!! I see no claim in your article where their is PROOF of their tellings. I sure do NOT want someone running this country who sides with the terrorists!!!

I agree with this comment about the article...

If you are't going to talk to me until i conceded.. welll hehe how lucky am I...

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:14 PM
http://keatingeconomics.com/

Old news... he wet to one meeting for these guys. he has said this was his worst mistake... and worked to right it ever since. Obama does not admitmistakes. he defends them.



http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/35321150/navy-releases-mccains-records

http://www.mccainbetrayspows.com/

Mccain is better than obama... I am not saying it is a great choice... but AT THIS POINT IN OUR SITUATION mccain is a better choice.

bojo68
10-06-2008, 01:18 PM
Not going to get into a big drawn out deal, but I don't see much difference between somebody that votes for McBama and the people that voted for the bailout/slavery/end of republic bill. The lack or reasoning is the same in that both refuse to do the RIGHT thing and are wiling to concede to evil. Fact of the mater to me is I refuse to accept either, and until more people grow up and do the same we're all going to be stuck in a never ending processional of mediocrity.
Also, it demonstrates that they think that thier opinion is more relevant than Ron Paul's, because he's specifically stated to not support either major party. Anybody willing to stack their credibility up to Ron Paul's has got a BIG pull, I can think of nobody alive today that could pull it off...

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:21 PM
Well - there you go... you do not support the Ron Paul movement anymore and you certainly do not represent the Ron Paul movement when you go around trying to convince people to vote for McCain.

I DO support RP principles. like it or not.




- You say McCain is not a socialist? But, he voted FOR the bailout... he most certainly is the exact same as Obama & Bush & Pelosi etc.


Your opinion...



- You say you don't participate in group think... but you listen to Hannity all the time and let his 'group think' ideas filter through your brain all the time. If you listen to Fox (or CNN or any of them for that matter) and talk shows like Hannity all the time, then it's no wonder you're convinced to vote for McCain. That is their job and they are successful with you.

When I first discovered Ron Paul, I turned off the TV & Radio because I realized the influence it had on me. I am free now to think clearly - without someone telling me how to think - it feels really good!


So you now only have one input.. mmmm just right for brain washing... culkts use this tactic to isolate their members from all outside influence.



Obama and McCain - they are both very very bad for America - it will not matter which one is President, we are in for a terrible time and we will be until America wakes up and that includes folks such as yourself.

Of course, I just wasted my time, I just read georgiaboy has pretty much said the same things I have... but you `EndTheFed` will not let up - you will follow the herd - you will vote for McCain no matter what anyone says on this forum. There is no point in `discussing` anything with you.


You are really sick if you dn't see your collectivism and group think... where is your individualism. ya'll are SO inconsistant.




I want my country back! It's time to take it back - one vote at a time, I'm voting 3rd Party!

Have at it...

Kade
10-06-2008, 01:23 PM
I do think for myself .. apparently more that you do... I don't need to get into a pissing contest with you abour who reads faster...

This article does NOTHING to back up your claim that obama ia a good decent man.

navyqueen- October 6, 2008
Whoever wrote this article has to be a good Democrat and hate McCain!!!! I see no claim in your article where their is PROOF of their tellings. I sure do NOT want someone running this country who sides with the terrorists!!!

I agree with this comment about the article...

If you are't going to talk to me until i conceded.. welll hehe how lucky am I...

You responded before the alloted time King Clown. There is no way either of you read that entire article. It isn't even a pro-Obama article at all... it is the truth about McCain.

moostraks
10-06-2008, 01:23 PM
First of all... i AM NOW a supporter.. but I am a McCain voter...

and Im not a schizophrenic.

The rest of your post requires no response... all of your RP talking points are tired..

I have discussed at length "lesser of two evils", "fear mongering", my ability to gether information from MANY sources including RP sources (not just FOX).

Hannity is from NY .. he is not southern... I am BTW

You are going to have a hard time infiltrating a corrupt system if you keep defending the actions of your "over-exuberant " followers.

Why don't you HELP themovement by condeming these actions and trying to get the movement to grow up.. That is ultimately what I am tryin to do.

You said and I quoted your words not mine so all caps is ridiculous,"I was a supporter" in regards to Paul. Re-read your words.

Don't care where someone's from I said he played a southern hospitality trick, polite to your face and then filet you behind your back. Beck does the same thing.(And he's in NY if I recall correctly) Hannity spent some time in the South, guess it rubbed off on him. So your discussion on how courteous Hannity was to Paul is just mute since it was only false politeness. That is what southern hospitality specializes in and I was merely associating it to a known tactic. Hannity did call Paul a nut case with an isolationist mindset.

For someone who asks for responses you sure are rude as hell unless we agree with you or pander to your vilification of a minority of over-exuberant supporters. Sorry you don't like my tired arguments. Guess its hard to respond to how we should support someone who can so easily joke about war or dismiss someone he made a life commitment to since she failed to live up to his expectations. Yeah those are pretty tired arguments with no reasonable, humane individual can legitimately think indicates character flaws.:rolleyes: Man, McCain scares the hell out of his coworkers, that should cause some pause for thought when giving him any position of power.

BTW I did not condone the actions of the snowballers but I am not going to apologize for them either. They can accept any responsibilty for their actions, drop the group think/ group blame. If some individual came up and said something about that incident I would probably steer clear of them since they obviously watch too much FOX news and have bought Hannity's tear jerker response to the incident. Which if I memory serves me correctly, didn't Hannity leave a female to defend herself while he sought refuge inside a building? There's a real man for ya!!!! The fact that you are harping on this issue with everyone screams volumes about your view of the individuals who comprise this movement (so why associate with it by posting here?)or more aptly maybe your need to demoralize those who might buy in to your claptrap. Neither is likely of a true freedom supporter because we all believe in personnal responsibilty.

Most Paul supporters can tell a FOX watcher/listener by the level of FOX propaganda they parrot. Twenty minutes with most people and you can usually tell where they get their news from nowadays. You are not an independant thinker if you conceed to the numbers game before the ballots are counted and utilize fear to keep dissenters in lockstep with the agenda. You are then a tool being shaped by the media spin to believe that there is no disent that can effect a change of any signifigance. We buy your way of thinking and we will never escape the government we now have controling us.

Nah...I don't think I need to apologize for anything but my own shortcomings. As for growing up the movement, I have enough problems without parenting the world.

ClockwiseSpark
10-06-2008, 01:24 PM
Mccain is better than obama... I am not saying it is a great choice... but AT THIS POINT IN OUR SITUATION mccain is a better choice.

Still on the clock I see. Does the McCain campaign pay you overtime?

http://re-try.com/pics/gtfo.gif

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:26 PM
Not going to get into a big drawn out deal, but I don't see much difference between somebody that votes for McBama and the people that voted for the bailout/slavery/end of republic bill. The lack or reasoning is the same in that both refuse to do the RIGHT thing and are wiling to concede to evil. Fact of the mater to me is I refuse to accept either, and until more people grow up and do the same we're all going to be stuck in a never ending processional of mediocrity.
Also, it demonstrates that they think that thier opinion is more relevant than Ron Paul's, because he's specifically stated to not support either major party. Anybody willing to stack their credibility up to Ron Paul's has got a BIG pull, I can think of nobody alive today that could pull it off...

Mmmm Heil RonPaul!!!

Sorry but that is too much for words..

Kade
10-06-2008, 01:27 PM
Still on the clock I see. Does the McCain campaign pay you overtime?

http://re-try.com/pics/gtfo.gif






Roflmfao..

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:28 PM
You responded before the alloted time King Clown. There is no way either of you read that entire article. It isn't even a pro-Obama article at all... it is the truth about McCain.

I understand.... I skimmed it to see if it backed up your claim at all about obama being a decent man... it did not... that is what I was looking your ... evidence to back up your claim...

Kade
10-06-2008, 01:29 PM
Mmmm Heil RonPaul!!!

Sorry but that is too much for words..

No. Not all of us are belligerent Paul worshipers, but the man is more sensible than anything that's been shat out of the primaries, ESPECIALLY flyboy retard McCain... seriously... McCain?!

This man will take us to war with Canada if he can.

Kade
10-06-2008, 01:30 PM
I understand.... I skimmed it to see if it backed up your claim at all about obama being a decent man... it did not... that is what I was looking your ... evidence to back up your claim...

Scratch what I said about Obama then.. it's my personal belief. I don't have a problem with any of his "friends".. Ayers and Wright are NOTHING compared to Keating and that Witch Doctor that Palin worships with.

moostraks
10-06-2008, 01:32 PM
Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas. During Groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance. The term is frequently used pejoratively, with hindsight.

Just because independant thinkers can see information, process it after analysis, and draw the same conclusion does not make it group think. The fact that many of us agree here on issues is not a process of group think but rationality. When one must parrot talking points from a specified news source they are the victims of group think....

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:35 PM
No. Not all of us are belligerent Paul worshipers, but the man is more sensible than anything that's been shat out of the primaries, ESPECIALLY flyboy retard McCain... seriously... McCain?!

This man will take us to war with Canada if he can.

Should we have fought the civil war?

How bout WWII?

Kade
10-06-2008, 01:35 PM
Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas. During Groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance. The term is frequently used pejoratively, with hindsight.

Just because independant thinkers can see information, process it after analysis, and draw the same conclusion does not make it group think. The fact that many of us agree here on issues is not a process of group think but rationality. When one must parrot talking points from a specified news source they are the victims of group think....

People here parrot talking points all day.

Example: Liberalism=socialism.

Kade
10-06-2008, 01:36 PM
Should we have fought the civil war?

How bout WWII?

That's a personal question. I am unqualified to answer it because I wasn't there. History is always a good tool for consideration.

moostraks
10-06-2008, 01:43 PM
People here parrot talking points all day.

Example: Liberalism=socialism.

If you were parroting something another person posting said, but just coming to the same conclusion does not in essence make it group think. Capeesh?

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:47 PM
Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas. During Groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance. The term is frequently used pejoratively, with hindsight.

Just because independant thinkers can see information, process it after analysis, and draw the same conclusion does not make it group think. The fact that many of us agree here on issues is not a process of group think but rationality. When one must parrot talking points from a specified news source they are the victims of group think....

I haven't parroted ANYTHING. I have cited sources.

This is a rediculous argument.. I understand te point and actually agree with what you are saying BUT I am the one here (in this duscussion) coming to MY own conclusions after processing information andcoming to my own conclusions... But I forgot... you can do that but somehow i can't why? because I don't wholeheartedly agree with EVERYTHING RP says.

As I stated earlier... collectivism is ok as long as it is YOUR collectivism.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:51 PM
Scratch what I said about Obama then.. it's my personal belief. I don't have a problem with any of his "friends".. Ayers and Wright are NOTHING compared to Keating and that Witch Doctor that Palin worships with.

Mccain went to ONE meeting for them, realisedhis mistake.. admitted it and has done all in his power to rightthe causes of this since.

Obama defendshis mistakes until they cannot possiblybedefended any more.

Obama has lied abouthis association with ayres... He had his original political comming out in his living room.

He now tries to portay it has he lives in hi neighborhood and their kids go to school tgether...

yeah right..

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 01:52 PM
End,

I'm voting Barr this year. You're not changing my mind.
You're voting McCain this year. I'm not changing your mind.

Can we move on to more productive things to further the C4L?

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:52 PM
That's a personal question. I am unqualified to answer it because I wasn't there. History is always a good tool for consideration.

mmm nice avoidance....

but you did not answer the queston...

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:54 PM
If you were parroting something another person posting said, but just coming to the same conclusion does not in essence make it group think. Capeesh?

Because I dont come to the same conclusion that you do doesnt make me submitting to groupthink either does it.

Capeesh?

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 01:55 PM
End,

I'm voting Barr this year. You're not changing my mind.
You're voting McCain this year. I'm not changing your mind.

Can we move on to more productive things to further the C4L?

Very true...

moostraks
10-06-2008, 01:57 PM
I haven't parroted ANYTHING. I have cited sources.

This is a rediculous argument.. I understand te point and actually agree with what you are saying BUT I am the one here (in this duscussion) coming to MY own conclusions after processing information andcoming to my own conclusions... But I forgot... you can do that but somehow i can't why? because I don't wholeheartedly agree with EVERYTHING RP says.

As I stated earlier... collectivism is ok as long as it is YOUR collectivism.

No...you have been here parroting FOX news talking points. I offered my reasons for not marching to McCain and was told I was using tired views not worthy of your time. My points came from research independant of this forum on McCain when I considered the field of contenders prior to learning about Ron Paul or this forum. You exude FOX media slant with the various points you keep bringing up while demanding we are the collectivists because some may have some harmony on points here in refuting you. It doesn't make it group think. My knowledge came prior to my posting here and from various sources.

Hey I don't believe in just war theory which Paul does... So not mindless here as I have my own opinions. I was voting third party before Paul's announcement. His view did not change my choice.

For pete's sake the only person who could still drone on about the snowballs must be a FOX news junkie because that was such nonsense and a petty incident to boot.

Mini-Me
10-06-2008, 02:00 PM
Should we have fought the civil war?

How bout WWII?

I'm not going to get into a big debate about this, since it's not the thread for it and I don't have the patience. However....

As far as the Civil War, no, we should not have fought it, for a multitude of reasons:
First of all, after making the slave trade illegal, we should have made serious efforts to buy up all of the existing slaves and free them before even considering a brutal and bloody war...which also happened to be much more costly than buying the slaves anyway.
Second, once the southern states seceded, slaves could have simply escaped to the North and been safe, since the North would honestly no longer give a damn about enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act.
Also, no matter how despicable the southern states were, states did in fact have a right to secede, and the federal government had no right to start a war against them just to bring them back.
Besides, the Civil War wasn't even sparked entirely by the issue of slavery anyway. The North had also been trying to destroy the economy of the South for a long time, though I suppose you could always say it was just due to outrage over slavery.
In any case, Lincoln himself didn't even care that much about slavery, and he personally admitted that he'd rather be able to bring the South back into the Union without abolishing slavery. All he really cared about was the tyrannical idea that states have no right to secede from the Union.
Bottom line: Every single other civilized country in the world ended slavery without war...we could have too, and so should we have.

In terms of World War II, it really depends on several factors, including the following two:
How avoidable was Pearl Harbor? Did FDR know in advance? Did we purposely manipulate Japan into attacking? There are a lot of people who would answer, "Avoidable, yes, and yes," and while I'm not in the position to defend these claims, I certainly wouldn't discount them. If Pearl Harbor had never happened, we never would have needed to fight Japan.
Did Germany's continued expansion pose a threat to the United States? (As a side note, World War II would probably NEVER have happened if we had not entered World War I and turned the tide of it...and that was a war which we had no good reason to join in the first place. Sure, we manipulated the Germans into giving us a pretext, but...)


In any case, why are those two questions even relevant to this thread?

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 02:04 PM
No...you have been here parroting FOX news talking points. I offered my reasons for not marching to McCain and was told I was using tired views not worthy of your time. My points came from research independant of this forum on McCain when I considered the field of contenders prior to learning about Ron Paul or this forum. You exude FOX media slant with the various points you keep bringing up while demanding we are the collectivists because some may have some harmony on points here in refuting you. It doesn't make it group think. My knowledge came prior to my posting here and from various sources.


My knowledege comes from many sources too. I started this thread about information on FOX and from thatyou mke me outto be a FOX robot... that is bs



Hey I don't believe in just war theory which Paul does... So not mindless here as I have my own opinions. I was voting third party before Paul's announcement. His view did not change my choice.


Do you believe we should have fought the civil war? WWI"




For pete's sake the only person who could still drone on about the snowballs must be a FOX news junkie because that was such nonsense and a petty incident to boot.

Yes it was but THE ONLY reason I have EVER brought that up in these forums is to point out that if we want the RP principles to get out to many weneed to not do things like that... Knowledge + wisdom will move itforward... knowledge only is not good.

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 02:06 PM
End,

Just so you know, I like you and I'm glad you're here. Your opinions, though completely off-base, are of course welcome. I know you've received abuse on other threads similar to this one, and I'm glad you've got the thick skin needed to ride out the storm. (gotta love those mixed metaphors).

That said, would you agree that most if not all the folks on this forum are pretty much mind made up regarding their voting preference in November?

Why not spend some time in the Liberty forest on these forums, lay off the 'who ya gonna vote for and why' circular debate?

The Economics & Sound Money Forum is really cool, as are the Freedom Living and Constitution forums.

We are a lively, intelligent, thoughtful, and multi-faceted bunch. We have the full political spectrum on here, and no issue is safe from dissection from every angle.

Switch from spin cycle to soak. It'll do a body a world of good.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 02:08 PM
I'm not going to get into a big debate about this, since it's not the thread for it and I don't have the patience. However....

As far as the Civil War, no, we should not have fought it, for a multitude of reasons:
First of all, after making the slave trade illegal, we should have made serious efforts to buy up all of the existing slaves and free them before even considering a brutal and bloody war...which also happened to be much more costly than buying the slaves anyway.
Second, once the southern states seceded, slaves could have simply escaped to the North and been safe, since the North would honestly no longer give a damn about enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act.
Also, no matter how despicable the southern states were, states did in fact have a right to secede, and the federal government had no right to start a war against them just to bring them back.
Besides, the Civil War wasn't even sparked entirely by the issue of slavery anyway. The North had also been trying to destroy the economy of the South for a long time, though I suppose you could always say it was just due to outrage over slavery.
In any case, Lincoln himself didn't even care that much about slavery, and he personally admitted that he'd rather be able to bring the South back into the Union without abolishing slavery. All he really cared about was the tyrannical idea that states have no right to secede from the Union.
Bottom line: Every single other civilized country in the world ended slavery without war...we could have too, and so should we have.

In terms of World War II, it really depends on several factors, including the following two:
How avoidable was Pearl Harbor? Did FDR know in advance? Did we purposely manipulate Japan into attacking? There are a lot of people who would answer, "Avoidable, yes, and yes," and while I'm not in the position to defend these claims, I certainly wouldn't discount them. If Pearl Harbor had never happened, we never would have needed to fight Japan.
Did Germany's continued expansion pose a threat to the United States? (As a side note, World War II would probably NEVER have happened if we had not entered World War I and turned the tide of it...and that was a war which we had no good reason to join in the first place. Sure, we manipulated the Germans into giving us a pretext, but...)


In any case, why are those two questions even relevant to this thread?


Because as far as I know mosat here feel there is no just war...

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 02:17 PM
End,

Just so you know, I like you and I'm glad you're here. Your opinions, though completely off-base, are of course welcome. I know you've received abuse on other threads similar to this one, and I'm glad you've got the thick skin needed to ride out the storm. (gotta love those mixed metaphors).

That said, would you agree that most if not all the folks on this forum are pretty much mind made up regarding their voting preference in November?

Why not spend some time in the Liberty forest on these forums, lay off the 'who ya gonna vote for and why' circular debate?

The Economics & Sound Money Forum is really cool, as are the Freedom Living and Constitution forums.

We are a lively, intelligent, thoughtful, and multi-faceted bunch. We have the full political spectrum on here, and no issue is safe from dissection from every angle.

Switch from spin cycle to soak. It'll do a body a world of good.

:D

Nice... I appreciate your attitude..

What you say here is true.. if thepeople here are really intelligent, thoughtful, and multi-faceted (Im not saying they are not), then show some of this andshow some wisdom in putting ideas forward to the outside world.

That is REALLY my main point. We will survive no matter who is elected this time around. I truly hope that by next election we can take the world by storm but that is going to take knowledge, wisdom, tolorance and education. We will not be able to educate people with the current mindset here (at least some of it). The condesending looking down the nose and you stupid sheeple mentality will not cut it.

moostraks
10-06-2008, 02:17 PM
My knowledege comes from many sources too. I started this thread about information on FOX and from thatyou mke me outto be a FOX robot... that is bs



Do you believe we should have fought the civil war? WWI"




Yes it was but THE ONLY reason I have EVER brought that up in these forums is to point out that if we want the RP principles to get out to many weneed to not do things like that... Knowledge + wisdom will move itforward... knowledge only is not good.


It wasn't just the intial comment but the follow ups that peg you for a FOX shill who is blasting folks for not seeing things your way. You aren't even refuting the equally heinous perception of McCain but dismissing it out of hand as tired arguments. Then don't ask for responses.

No I don't believe in war as an answer. Reread...I said I disagreed with just war theory. A society should be capable of creating change without violence and we have enough intelligence and history to aid in problem solving.

The snowball fight was brought up and used to shame us. Saying it once was sufficient however you continued to brandish it to insult Ron Paul supporters for being of that ilk irregardless of their distance from the incident. Guilt by association. The only people who remember that incident and argue its importance are FOX shills, as it was a petty incident that was blown out of proportion and the only value I recall was what a petty, sorry person Hannity was shown to be after how he ditched his companion....

BTW how's the response coming on how Hannity called Paul a nutcase isolationist? You had been chatting up what a kind fellow Hannity was to Paul, so how does that square with talking behind his back or are you just dismissing that too???

Kade
10-06-2008, 02:23 PM
Mccain went to ONE meeting for them, realisedhis mistake.. admitted it and has done all in his power to rightthe causes of this since.

Obama defendshis mistakes until they cannot possiblybedefended any more.

Obama has lied abouthis association with ayres... He had his original political comming out in his living room.

He now tries to portay it has he lives in hi neighborhood and their kids go to school tgether...

yeah right..

This response comes from your inability to read what I posted to you. You are parroting Fox Talking points. You responded to EXACTLY what has been countered by the article you chose to ignore.

This is also the single most poorly written response I've read yet on these forums. You are truly a plant from the Hannity Forums. Go back there before you somehow replace me as the Forum Target Dummy.

Mini-Me
10-06-2008, 02:24 PM
Because as far as I know mosat here feel there is no just war...

Really? I've gotten the impression that most people here are not pacifists at all. I have seen very few who would not approve of defending the United States from a direct attack by another nation, for example. That said, while I believe that there is certainly a such thing as a just war, most of the wars we've fought since our inception have simply not been just at all by my standards*.

*I haven't bothered to codify those standards in exact terms, but I know my opinions don't line up entirely with the Christian Just War Theory. For instance, I'd piss all over the requirement about how a just war must be conducted by a "legitimate authority."

Kade
10-06-2008, 02:26 PM
Really? I've gotten the impression that most people here are not pacifists at all. I have seen very few who would not approve of defending the United States from a direct attack by another nation, for example. That said, while I believe that there is certainly a such thing as a just war, most of the wars we've fought since our inception have simply not been just at all by my standards*.

*I haven't bothered to codify those standards in exact terms, but I know my opinions don't line up entirely with the Christian Just War Theory. For instance, I'd piss all over the requirement about how a just war must be conducted by a "legitimate authority."

No, you are correct.

We also have a lot of Brin style Survivalist here, who scare the living shit out of me with their insanity.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 02:28 PM
It wasn't just the intial comment but the follow ups that peg you for a FOX shill who is blasting folks for not seeing things your way. You aren't even refuting the equally heinous perception of McCain but dismissing it out of hand as tired arguments. Then don't ask for responses.

No I don't believe in war as an answer. Reread...I said I disagreed with just war theory. A society should be capable of creating change without violence and we have enough intelligence and history to aid in problem solving.


Like our founding fathers right? the original revolution.. remember?




The snowball fight was brought up and used to shame us. Saying it once was sufficient however you continued to brandish it to insult Ron Paul supporters for being of that ilk irregardless of their distance from the incident. Guilt by association. The only people who remember that incident and argue its importance are FOX shills, as it was a petty incident that was blown out of proportion and the only value I recall was what a petty, sorry person Hannity was shown to be after how he ditched his companion....


It was brought up the same way it has been EVERY tim i have brought it up.. If you can'tadmit that that was WRONG then you are worse off then I thought.

If you don't believ there is a perception that RP followers are freaks then you are sadly mistaken.. I don't completely agree with this opinion but the more I am around here well it makes me wonder...

This percetion has roots somewhere an it is NOT ALL simple not liking his positions.




BTW how's the response coming on how Hannity called Paul a nutcase isolationist? You had been chatting up what a kind fellow Hannity was to Paul, so how does that square with talking behind his back or are you just dismissing that too???

Where is a reference to this claim? was he refering to his followers?

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 02:31 PM
This response comes from your inability to read what I posted to you. You are parroting Fox Talking points. You responded to EXACTLY what has been countered by the article you chose to ignore.

This is also the single most poorly written response I've read yet on these forums. You are truly a plant from the Hannity Forums. Go back there before you somehow replace me as the Forum Target Dummy.


I seemd to not get my talking point list... can you giveme yours (the oneyou say I am quoting from) so I can see what I quoting? I'm sure you must have one since you can say I am parroting them..

Kade
10-06-2008, 02:31 PM
I seemd to not get my talking point list... can you giveme yours (the oneyou say I am quoting from) so I can see what I quoting? I'm sure you must have one since you can say I am parroting them..

Sure thing bud:

http://forums.hannity.com/

(In fact, the first few topic titles are the points you made in your first post)

Mini-Me
10-06-2008, 02:36 PM
Sure thing bud:

http://forums.hannity.com/

(In fact, the first few topic titles are the points you made in your first post)

I'm afraid to even click the link, lest my eyes explode.

Kade
10-06-2008, 02:43 PM
I'm afraid to even click the link, lest my eyes explode.

Out of curiosity, I did, and read a bit... I had a vision----

I wept children's tears on my beard. I dreamed of immersing myself forever in the World of Warcraft, explaining the economy of inflation caused by Twinking high stamina Equipment under level 20. I saw my life flash before my eyes, and in that instant, an American flag, an eagle, a pie, a baseball, and Sean Hannity's Heritage Foundation charter member card shoved down my throat in an act that could only be called rape. I heard his voice, echoing from the mountains of my darkest nightmares, and in the shadows of night, I bowed down under the Confederate Flag and accepted Uncle Sam as my savior, a White Jesus carrying a Cross, and the fumes of a burning Israel floating above my head dispersed, and I was allowed to stand, where I knelt down in the ground, planted the American flag from my mouth on the moon of my soul, and was told finally; "You are a great American."

moostraks
10-06-2008, 02:49 PM
Like our founding fathers right? the original revolution.. remember?




It was brought up the same way it has been EVERY tim i have brought it up.. If you can'tadmit that that was WRONG then you are worse off then I thought.

If you don't believ there is a perception that RP followers are freaks then you are sadly mistaken.. I don't completely agree with this opinion but the more I am around here well it makes me wonder...

This percetion has roots somewhere an it is NOT ALL simple not liking his positions.




Where is a reference to this claim? was he refering to his followers?


I don't agree with war. It doesn't matter whose war it is/was as it is a failure to reason that causes violence to be the response. Nowadays with knowledge and history at our fingertips there is no excuse for a failure to resolve problems in a reasonable manner. Violence breeds contempt not respect.

I don't have to admit something was wrong I did not do. I said it was overblown, as a tactic, much the same as you are using it to develop a perception of a reality that simply doesn't exist. It is also used to demoralize people by making them feel they are affiliating with kooks or violent people. It was snowballs, let's keep the perspective on things. Not exactly how I would handle things but those who did can answer for their heinous use of snowball warfare....

The perception lies in the media spin control of the public view of reality. In order to get a correct response you word the question to guide the answer. It has been used in court systems, marketing, and now media news.

I do not have the source as I was not taping his programming I was listening to establish who, what, and how the spin was being promoted. He was a loud voice on the anti-Paul circuit because of his pro-war stance in Iraq/n. Just the same as Beck on that matter. Hannity is a war hawk with a messiah complex for government war intervention to right the ills caused by religion(you know others religion, not his own Catholic beliefs mind you).

So why buy the crap FOX peddles on Obama but McCain gets a pass unless you have bought the FOX/Limbaugh line of how worse one is while the other is a maverick with a free spirit that doesn't exactly represent conservative values,hmmm??? Most of us are turning away because both choices are repulsive and voting for one is no longer possible for anyone with a conscience....

Mini-Me
10-06-2008, 02:51 PM
Out of curiosity, I did, and read a bit... I had a vision----

I wept children's tears on my beard. I dreamed of immersing myself forever in the World of Warcraft, explaining the economy of inflation caused by Twinking high stamina Equipment under level 20. I saw my life flash before my eyes, and in that instant, an American flag, an eagle, a pie, a baseball, and Sean Hannity's Heritage Foundation charter member card shoved down my throat in an act that could only be called rape. I heard his voice, echoing from the mountains of my darkest nightmares, and in the shadows of night, I bowed down under the Confederate Flag and accepted Uncle Sam as my savior, a White Jesus carrying a Cross, and the fumes of a burning Israel floating above my head dispersed, and I was allowed to stand, where I knelt down in the ground, planted the American flag from my mouth on the moon of my soul, and was told finally; "You are a great American."

You should've known better than to look. :eek:
Seriously though, I grew up believing all of that crap. Could you imagine? ;)

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 02:52 PM
Sure thing bud:

http://forums.hannity.com/

(In fact, the first few topic titles are the points you made in your first post)

You know ... I have NEVER been there before...

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 02:53 PM
out of curiosity, i did, and read a bit... I had a vision----

i wept children's tears on my beard. I dreamed of immersing myself forever in the world of warcraft, explaining the economy of inflation caused by twinking high stamina equipment under level 20. I saw my life flash before my eyes, and in that instant, an american flag, an eagle, a pie, a baseball, and sean hannity's heritage foundation charter member card shoved down my throat in an act that could only be called rape. I heard his voice, echoing from the mountains of my darkest nightmares, and in the shadows of night, i bowed down under the confederate flag and accepted uncle sam as my savior, a white jesus carrying a cross, and the fumes of a burning israel floating above my head dispersed, and i was allowed to stand, where i knelt down in the ground, planted the american flag from my mouth on the moon of my soul, and was told finally; "you are a great american."

wow !!!

Kade
10-06-2008, 02:55 PM
You know ... I have NEVER been there before...

I Support John McCain.


New Game: Let's see who can get the biggest whopper posted!

Kade's Whopper Contest:

Rule #1 There are only two rules, Rule #1 and Rule #2.
Rule #2 The lie has to be so obviously false that a Fox News Audience believes it.

Kade
10-06-2008, 02:57 PM
wow !!!

How did you turn that post into lowercase?

ClockwiseSpark
10-06-2008, 02:58 PM
I Support John McCain.


New Game: Let's see who can get the biggest whopper posted!

Kade's Whopper Contest:

Rule #1 There are only two rules, Rule #1 and Rule #2.
Rule #2 The lie has to be so obviously false that a Fox News Audience believes it.

Barack Obama is Osama bin Laden's cousin.

Kade
10-06-2008, 02:59 PM
Barack Obama is Osama bin Laden's cousin.

Barack Obama is Osama Bin Laden.

Point --> Kade.


Scores:

Kade 2
EndTheFed 1

ClockwiseSpark
10-06-2008, 03:00 PM
Barack Obama is Osama Bin Laden.

Point --> Kade.


Scores:

Kade 2
EndTheFed 1

John McCain is related to Jesus.

georgiaboy
10-06-2008, 03:01 PM
I'm afraid to even click the link, lest my eyes explode.

Funny.

But seriously, I've spent time lurking over there, and I still listen on occasion to conservative talk radio, which includes Sean and all the other usual suspects.

Lately Sean has a shrillness to him and his laughing seems forced. It's a tone of desperation. In his earlier days he seemed less concerned with the status quo, speaking from his heart, but now it seems like he's become much more partisan focused. 15 years ago, I think Hannity would've handed the Republicans their heads for what they've done to this country, but now he defends much of it.

Now time for some sweeping generalizations. The Hannity forums has zero depth to it. There's much talk of political window dressing, like just how many moose Sarah Palin has killed, or how to communicate effectively stall to stall with Larry Craig, etc., than any serious issues based threads. Zero talk of economic or monetary theory. There are some RP folks who regularly post over there, and as such, they've been identified by the regulars and have their thoughtful posts ignored or flamed. God bless 'em for putting up with that garbage.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 03:01 PM
I don't agree with war. It doesn't matter whose war it is/was as it is a failure to reason that causes violence to be the response. Nowadays with knowledge and history at our fingertips there is no excuse for a failure to resolve problems in a reasonable manner. Violence breeds contempt not respect.

So does degrading belittling and bad mouthing people... thatdoesnt stop people on here...



I don't have to admit something was wrong I did not do. I said it was overblown, as a tactic, much the same as you are using it to develop a perception of a reality that simply doesn't exist. It is also used to demoralize people by making them feel they are affiliating with kooks or violent people. It was snowballs, let's keep the perspective on things. Not exactly how I would handle things but those who did can answer for their heinous use of snowball warfare....


you have it wrong or you are intentionally maligning me. I am NOT trying to demoralize people by making them feel they are affiliating with kooks or violent people. I am trying to get the kooks or violent people to do the movemet a favor andreform themselfs...

very simple concept..



The perception lies in the media spin control of the public view of reality. In order to get a correct response you word the question to guide the answer. It has been used in court systems, marketing, and now media news.


What I am saying is not perception created by the meda... nope mine is from first hand experience.



I do not have the source as I was not taping his programming I was listening to establish who, what, and how the spin was being promoted. He was a loud voice on the anti-Paul circuit because of his pro-war stance in Iraq/n. Just the same as Beck on that matter. Hannity is a war hawk with a messiah complex for government war intervention to right the ills caused by religion(you know others religion, not his own Catholic beliefs mind you).

So why buy the crap FOX peddles on Obama but McCain gets a pass unless you have bought the FOX/Limbaugh line of how worse one is while the other is a maverick with a free spirit that doesn't exactly represent conservative values,hmmm??? Most of us are turning away because both choices are repulsive and voting for one is no longer possible for anyone with a conscience....

Just like Obama get a pass on most other MSM.

Kade
10-06-2008, 03:01 PM
John McCain is related to Jesus.

Point. (John McCain is Jesus would have also worked)

Kade
10-06-2008, 03:03 PM
Scores will be kept track of here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1742805

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 03:03 PM
I Support John McCain.


New Game: Let's see who can get the biggest whopper posted!

Kade's Whopper Contest:

Rule #1 There are only two rules, Rule #1 and Rule #2.
Rule #2 The lie has to be so obviously false that a Fox News Audience believes it.

Well I guess I lost... I have NEVER been on the hannity forums.. sware to God.. which you dont believe in... oops

Kade
10-06-2008, 03:04 PM
Well I guess I lost... I have NEVER been on the hannity forums.. sware to God.. which you dont believe in... oops

Point.

ClockwiseSpark
10-06-2008, 03:08 PM
If Obama is elected president the apocalypse will commence. He is the anti-Christ and he eats puppies.

Hmm, that might make them vote for him. Scratch that one.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 03:08 PM
Point.

This is the first and only and maybe last forum that I have ever been a part of..

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 03:09 PM
This is rediculous... See yall.. Guess you won...

Think I will go start a website...

Mini-Me
10-06-2008, 03:10 PM
Point. (John McCain is Jesus would have also worked)

Jesus supports John McCain and admires his leaking hard-on for preemptive war against everyone.

ClockwiseSpark
10-06-2008, 03:12 PM
Jesus supports John McCain and admires his leaking hard-on for preemptive war against everyone.

That's a good one!

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/4460/kungfojesusdf4.jpg

Kade
10-06-2008, 03:15 PM
This is rediculous... See yall.. Guess you won...

Thik I will go start a website...

Whopper +2 !!!!

You're winning... don't leave now!

heavenlyboy34
10-06-2008, 03:49 PM
My whopper...

John McCain is a superior leader and competent, Christian conservative who would never endanger the U.S. in any way. ;)

kombayn
10-06-2008, 04:12 PM
Hey guys and girls,

As some of you know, I am a Ron Paul Supporter but a McCain/Palin voter. Now I know how that enrages some of you and I am not interested in debating the virtues of lesser of two evils (been there done that).

I have a background on the forums of trying to get people here to win people over to the RP way of thinking using a little wisdom instead of the usual cursing, vitrial and snow ball throwing.

I just watch Hannity's America on FOX (it comes back on at 11:00 pm central). It is unbelievable the ties obama has to socialism, islamic sympathisers, the PLO, Louis farrakhan, america haters and terrorist. It was laid out pretty clearly. The influences that he has had all through the years is simply unreal. The "Goddamn America" comment by jeremiah Wright is only the beginning of what that man has said.

Obama, IMO, has a desire to, through subtle manipulation, take America to a radical end.

I am writing this to all those in the swing states. Please consider the ramifications to your decision to vote third party. It could have dire consequenses..
I know how people feel about "scare tactics" and that this is what the "two party" system uses to promote the lesses of two evils but that does not mean there is not real evil.

I know that people here think other people voting for mccain are sheeple and that they are victims of collectivism. I understant this point of view and agree with it to some extent. But there seems to be a certain amount of collectivism in the RP movement but of course that means that collectivism and group think is OK when it is your own.

As I said I am not interested in flames or arguing. Discussion without the name calling is welcome.

Oh god and McCain isn't a bit of a socialist himself? What's amnesty mean to you? What about the bailout? What about all his ties to rich lobbyists and his multi-million dollar wife. Who cares who Obama is associated with? You know a lot of black people study the muslim faith with a christian spin to it? If you want to start playing this game, McCain deserves just as much criticism without this blatant race-baiting to tie Barack Obama as a terrorist/islam-supporter/socialist etc. It's retarded and so are you.

RJB
10-06-2008, 04:24 PM
www.johnmccainforum.com

tonesforjonesbones
10-06-2008, 04:24 PM
Did any of you bother to watch Hannity's America...Barak Obama and his friends? you should do so immediatly.. He's got William Ayers, ACORN, Wright, Farakkahan and many more who really think they need to rid the USA of "white suprimacy"..think about it. Tones

tonesforjonesbones
10-06-2008, 04:25 PM
Reverend Manning sure doesn't mince any words about Obama..tones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrsXYG1fZJc

Mini-Me
10-06-2008, 04:50 PM
www.johnmccainforum.com

I love that place. :D

heavenlyboy34
10-06-2008, 04:56 PM
Did any of you bother to watch Hannity's America...Barak Obama and his friends? you should do so immediatly.. He's got William Ayers, ACORN, Wright, Farakkahan and many more who really think they need to rid the USA of "white suprimacy"..think about it. Tones

lol nah, I don't even own a TV. :) You'll have to tell me about it.

tonesforjonesbones
10-06-2008, 05:03 PM
You can watch it all on youtube. tones

Charles Wilson
10-06-2008, 08:11 PM
It is amazing to me how you say we are "programmed". The more I am here the more it sees like a cult. This is NOT an outsider calling what he doesn't understand loonies and nuts... This is me ... an insider..

Everyone here spouts the RP mantra... I think for myself.

I have explainedMANY times that I am trying my best t educate outsiders.. to me a protest vote will not accomplish anything with the numbers we have at tis point... we MUST grow the movement ifwe want to make a difference and the biggest wal to doing that right now is people acting like idiots. Their actions speak volumes... They do things RP would never do...

If the truth be known, you are more of a "plant" than an insider. We spout the RP mantra because we are Ron Paul Republicans. And you are? If you are serious about growing the movement then join with the rest of us and make a difference. :)

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 08:57 PM
Reverend Manning sure doesn't mince any words about Obama..tones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrsXYG1fZJc

Great post tones...

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 08:58 PM
Oh god and McCain isn't a bit of a socialist himself? What's amnesty mean to you? What about the bailout? What about all his ties to rich lobbyists and his multi-million dollar wife. Who cares who Obama is associated with? You know a lot of black people study the muslim faith with a christian spin to it? If you want to start playing this game, McCain deserves just as much criticism without this blatant race-baiting to tie Barack Obama as a terrorist/islam-supporter/socialist etc. It's retarded and so are you.


you oviously have not followed my posts..

VoteForRonPaul
10-06-2008, 09:05 PM
..........I just watch Hannity's America on FOX (it comes back on at 11:00 pm central). It is unbelievable the ties obama has to socialism......... I think that the 700 Billion bailout did not yet convince you that McCain is no less socialist than Obama. :rolleyes:



Obama, IMO, has a desire to, through subtle manipulation, take America to a radical end.

What could be more radical than state sponsored terrorism and what could be more radical than the death of over a million people since the war on Iraq started.

So sad!

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 09:12 PM
If the truth be known, you are more of a "plant" than an insider. We spout the RP mantra because we are Ron Paul Republicans. And you are? If you are serious about growing the movement then join with the rest of us and make a difference. :)

I am NOT a plant... My wife is the RP precint captain.

ClockwiseSpark
10-06-2008, 09:25 PM
I am NOT a plant... My wife is the RP precint captain.

My wife is Mother Teresa. It's true!

heavenlyboy34
10-06-2008, 10:50 PM
Did any of you bother to watch Hannity's America...Barak Obama and his friends? you should do so immediatly.. He's got William Ayers, ACORN, Wright, Farakkahan and many more who really think they need to rid the USA of "white suprimacy"..think about it. Tones

I'm watching this thing now...and it strikes me as neocon propaganda. :rolleyes: Why people take Hannity serious anymore is beyond me.

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 11:30 PM
Take a look at this one... hehe and its not from FOX news BTW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTp_atr2G9E

RSLudlum
10-06-2008, 11:35 PM
EndTheFed, can we please EndThisThread? :D

heavenlyboy34
10-06-2008, 11:37 PM
Take a look at this one... hehe and its not from FOX new BTW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTp_atr2G9E

You can say the same thing about a lot of people though! LOL :D

RickyJ
10-06-2008, 11:38 PM
Take a look at this one... hehe and its not from FOX new BTW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTp_atr2G9E

You can post a million YouTubes and I am still voting for Chuck Baldwin. :D

Even if Obama were the devil himself I couldn't vote for McCain because he thinks nothing of Americans. How do I know this, because he had the gall to laugh at Americans and say they wouldn't pick lettuce for $50 an hour. Then when a guy in the crowd said he would do it, he said no, we couldn't do it and laughed his head off. Anyone that is that far disconnected from reality doesn't need to be in the White House.

This is not the one with him laughing, but it is similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWOZKeOauNI&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_166408

EndTheFed
10-06-2008, 11:50 PM
Take a look at this one... hehe and its not from FOX new BTW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTp_atr2G9E


EndTheFed, can we please EndThisThread? :D

if you really want too... dont participate...:eek:

mitty
10-07-2008, 04:53 AM
a) I don't believe everything he says.. I am capable of listening to opposing views and determining what I think about it... otherwise I would have never made as decision to support RP.

b) same as a)

c) I need evidence for this one... there is lots of stuff pointing to obama being a socialist...

you obviously didn't watch the videos.

you are obviously blind too. if voting for the largest corporate welfare package in world history doesn't make you a socialist (among his entire voting record which you apparently have never actually read) we might as well throw the dictionary out the window.

yeah. obama's a socialist because he wants to raise taxes and give handouts.

yet mccain isn't for wanting to do the same thing.

maybe when you show me evidence you haven't believed everything hannity and republican fox news says, i'll actually believe you.

EndTheFed
10-07-2008, 07:17 AM
My wife is Mother Teresa. It's true!

Mmmm my condolences.....

EndTheFed
10-07-2008, 07:19 AM
I'm watching this thing now...and it strikes me as neocon propaganda. :rolleyes: Why people take Hannity serious anymore is beyond me.

It seems like ANYTHING RP people disagree with is neocon propaganda.

EndTheFed
10-07-2008, 07:21 AM
you obviously didn't watch the videos.

you are obviously blind too. if voting for the largest corporate welfare package in world history doesn't make you a socialist (among his entire voting record which you apparently have never actually read) we might as well throw the dictionary out the window.

yeah. obama's a socialist because he wants to raise taxes and give handouts.

yet mccain isn't for wanting to do the same thing.

maybe when you show me evidence you haven't believed everything hannity and republican fox news says, i'll actually believe you.

you can't prove a negative...

georgiaboy
10-07-2008, 07:30 AM
End,

If the Republicans had nominated Jane Fonda for their nominee, would you vote for her?