Goals of the movement

[Dequeant]

There's quite a few people (on this an other forums) hinting at and beating around the bush about a........ possible "less than civil" revolt or disobedience. Even for those strongly opposed to that, if you wish to enact change you must have specific goals.

Well, for those that lean that way, I'd suggest you come up with a few specific noble goals for your "movement". Such as amendments to the constitution, etc etc. You can't just revolt with no stated goals or purpose..... That will lead to an endless pointless fight. Every movement that can be expected to succeed must have a goal that everyone in the movement is aware of.

Otherwise, even if that goal is met, there will be some inside the movement that wish to carry on.......or on the flip side, the movement may be stopped by minimal compromises and everyone is fooled into believing they've succeeded in exacting an agreeable change.

So my challenge to those not completely turned off by the idea is this.......what would your goal be? The more broad your goals are, the more likely you are to fail.

I was playing around and came up with a few things I'd like to see done to the constitution. I haven't bothered editing it.......its pretty much just a brain dump. However, to get the ball rolling, I'll use some of my ideas as an example....


Rights:

There should be implimented immediately, that certain laws laid out in the constitution are beyond the opinion, interpretation, or modification of anyone or any organization or government. Beyond the protected text in the constitution there will be no power given to government to effect the items protected in the text in any way.

The laws under this constitutional protection and immunity to amendment shall be explained in extreme detail, as to prohibit even the smallest room for interpretation.


Constitutionality:

The constitutionality of legislation will be judged by the clear and present authority specifically granted to the respective branches of government by the constitution. Every bill to pass the house and senate is first sent for judicial review by the supreme court. If any part of the legislation is found to be unconstitutional, the entire legislation is deemed unconstitutional and is rejected in whole.

Attempts by a government official or officals to circumvent the constitution constitute low treason.


Corruption:

Any officer of the united states that abuse their office for personal gain shall be guilty of low treason. Gifts, donations, or payments of any type from organizations to officers of the united states is strictly prohibited.


Low Treason:

Any individual found guilty of low treason is immediately removed from any service of the United States and barred from any future service in government. All government entitlements and future government entitlements to convicted individuals are null and void. Any gains to individuals or organizations resulting from the act of low treason in which the individual was found guilty shall be repossessed and returned to the rightful owner.


Money:

Only gold, silver and platinum coins are to be legal tender. The United States Treasury may, at the discression of congress, during a time of declared war issue "Treasury Bonds". Following the end of declared war, 50% of new gold, silver, and platinum aquired by the Treasury shall be set aside until an adequate reserve exists to pay in full all outstanding Treasury Bonds.


Declaration of War:

Congress shall have the power to declare war. The only time military conflict is permissible is when any state of the United States is attacked, is under a specific, emminent threat of attack, or a Congressional Declaration of War exists against a specific nation or organization.


Taxation:

The congress may, during a time of war including but limited to a maximum of 6 months after the end of the war or return to a national surplus, institute a national sales tax. This tax is to be leveed by the states and paid to the treasury. The states may, if conflict has ceased for more than 6 months without an end to the declaration of war, decline to pay the national sales tax. Taxation of individual wages or salary is prohibited.


National Debt:

Only during a time of declared war and military conflict is a national debt constitutional.


Central Bank:

Central Banks, having proven on 3 occasions to be detrimental to the liberty of citizens of the United States, are strictly prohibited. Congress does not have the authority to delegate responsibilities laid out in the Constitution.

[politicus]

Lobbying:

Congressmen, Senators, Cabinet-level Secretaries, and other high level executive officers are permanently prohibited from working as lobbyists.

[danda]

We Agree

Foreign Policy: The Iraq War must end as quickly as possible with removal of all our soldiers from the region. We must initiate the return of our soldiers from around the world, including Korea, Japan, Europe and the entire Middle East. We must cease the war propaganda, threats of a blockade and plans for attacks on Iran, nor should we re-ignite the cold war with Russia over Georgia. We must be willing to talk to all countries and offer friendship and trade and travel to all who are willing. We must take off the table the threat of a nuclear first strike against all nations.

Privacy: We must protect the privacy and civil liberties of all persons under US jurisdiction. We must repeal or radically change the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and the FISA legislation. We must reject the notion and practice of torture, eliminations of habeas corpus, secret tribunals, and secret prisons. We must deny immunity for corporations that spy willingly on the people for the benefit of the government. We must reject the unitary presidency, the illegal use of signing statements and excessive use of executive orders.

The National Debt: We believe that there should be no increase in the national debt. The burden of debt placed on the next generation is unjust and already threatening our economy and the value of our dollar. We must pay our bills as we go along and not unfairly place this burden on a future generation.

The Federal Reserve: We seek a thorough investigation, evaluation and audit of the Federal Reserve System and its cozy relationships with the banking, corporate, and other financial institutions. The arbitrary power to create money and credit out of thin air behind closed doors for the benefit of commercial interests must be ended. There should be no taxpayer bailouts of corporations and no corporate subsidies. Corporations should be aggressively prosecuted for their crimes and frauds.


http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=457#.

[CUnknown]

Dequeant - my thoughts:

Taxation: I have issue with your use of a sales tax to pay for wars. An income tax is probably a better way to do that, actually, because if the war is big enough there will be very little consumer goods being produced for people to buy. I believe a sales tax would be ineffective at paying for a war on the scale of WWI or WWII. Anyway, however we're being taxed, during times of war, your a$$ belongs to the State, and that's just the way it is. I'm not saying I like it like that, I'm just saying if the war is big enough, that's the way it is. I agree with an income tax being disallowed during peacetime.

Rights: There are philosophical problems with what you're saying here. The laws must be interpreted by the executive in order to be enforced. It would be great if communication could be 100% effective, but it can't be. People aren't robots and can't be programmed by the Constitution. They read it, interpret, and act on that interpretation. The problem is, that our leaders today don't do it like that. The Constitution is just a goddammed piece of paper, and if they read it, it's only to find a sentence or phrasing to justify the actions they have already decided on. They don't read it as a law that they need to obey.

Corruption: I agree with you that our dear leaders should be brought up on treason charges. The problem is: who does it? We obviously can't count on an opposition party anymore (thanks Democrats!). I agree with you that treason charges should be mandated, but I believe in the Constitution they already are mandated.

What we need is a way for the people to bring charges directly against our leaders. As it stands now, we can't even try to recall the President, which is BS. Not only should we be able to recall him at any time, we should be able to toss him in jail for treason without relying on a complicit Congress to do it. There needs to be a mechanism for that.

Central Bank: We do need an amendment prohibiting a central bank, I agree. By this time, I think it's obvious to every informed citizen that they have a proven track record of failure. (The Great Depression, this current crisis...)

In general, I definitely agree with you about most everything. But, we need an enforcement mechanism that doesn't rely on corrupt people in Washington to carry it out. Corruption in the halls of power is infinite, and it doesn't matter what laws are passed or what the Constitution says, they will always ignore and interpret to their own benefit. We need a mechanism to identify when this occurs and to take action that circumvents all possible corruption. Of course I have no idea how to do that, it may be impossible. The people seem to be a good place to start, though, they need to be empowered to remove corrupted officials from office.

[Truth Warrior]

Screw the movement, where's the revolution? :mad: