My Philosophical Statement on the ignorance presented in the new Zeitgeist movie

[Joe3113]

The thing that disappoints me about the new Zeitgeist film is that they engage in money-bashing. I can see how you can bash fiat money but real money is merely something you voluntarily trade with. Capitalism does not force you to trade such that you MUST make a profit. That is what they miss. They claim capitalism is a profit-based system, which is complete nonsense. Capitalism does not force you to make a profit.

Their problem is that they engage in system bashing whereas they need to focus on inspiring people to become more moral. The overall system is merely a direct reflection on the sum total of the individuals. If the majority of people really wanted something, then there is nothing the few can do to really stop it at this point in time. Hence, blaming a system as opposed to the people themselves, is ridiculous.

Although these Zeitgeist people claim they do not advocate socialism, their proposal would require exactly that because it would not be based on individuals making their own decisions. The problem they have is that someone has to make decisions, and if someone has the power to make decisions over somebody else, THAT IS SOCIALISM.

There are only 2 choices. People make their own decisions on their actions or somebody makes it for them. There is no outside hand that can keep all humans in order in an unbiased manner. That is why we oppose the government taking guns. It's not like the power of possessing a gun is completely removed from the earth when that happens. A person must take a gun from another person. Hence the power of the gun is transferred from the many to the few. It is not removed completely.

I do agree on the proposal to ban foreclosures based on the libertarian-consistent principle that fraud is illegal and the money that the bank provided to the lender was simply fraudulent paper.

I think Ron's popularity would sky-rocket and you'd get a lot of well meaning socialists changing their ideology and supporting him, if he suddenly came out and said that because the monetary system was fraudulent, morally, the people who have mortgages should stay in their homes and should now OWN their homes as compensation for the fraud. This way the banks are destroyed without destroying everyone around them. All based on property rights consistent with libertarian principles.

[Joe3113]

edit: never mind

[EPIC1934]

"The overall system is merely a direct reflection on the sum total of the individuals. " I disagree with this statement. There are myriad ways in which structures of power raise up and attempt to universalize/objectify the ideas, perceptions, and values of one group at the expense of others. The other views might be able to win the argument if they were ever given a fair and democratic access to the "public forum" but this is denied in many many ways.
e.g.

1) ACCESS TO MEDIA CAPABLE OF REACHING MORE THAN 100,000 AT A TIME
2) ACCESS TO FUNDING FOR RESEARCH WHICH IS CONTROLLED BOTH DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY BY CORPORATE FOUNDATION GRANTS.
LOTS AND LOTS OF OTHER EXAMPLES WILL BECOME APPARENT IF WE THINK ABOUT IT.

[bubbleboy]

That movie bashes relegious tradition that aren't based on the bible anyway. Christmas, trinity, the gregorian calendar aren't in the bible. Oh yea jer 10 mentions the christmas tree.
God gave the sun and the moon to tell times and seasons. There is so much twisting in the religious section of the movie it will definitely cause many to stumble and fall.

[Malakai]

Zg has been shit since the first one...

There are real documentaries that teach about the evilness of our society. Zg is conspiratorial and has tons of unproven 'facts' in it.

[Conza88]

Not sure I want to watch it now. lol

[Adrian.Bisson]

This film is thought provoking, especially in the beginning, but then veers off course and becomes stupid. The Venus Project stuff is a load of crap.

The film is dead wrong in suggesting that the profit motive is the root of all corruption. The truth is that governmental force and coercion are the fundamental source of our problems, a position that this film does not address.

It's ridiculous to contend that the concept of scarcity is irrelevant, and everything falls apart from that notion forward. Scarcity is and always will be centrally relevant to human existence, and free market capitalism is the best way to allocate resources efficiently IF the coercive intervention of government power can be limited.

Also, the Venus Project people seem to take for granted that they are qualified to be the arbiters of the "best" way of life for people. When they talk about all crime etc. disappearing under their one-world government it makes me shudder. I wonder what they would do with people who didn't fit into their utopian vision. Re-education camps I'm sure.

Anyone who thinks the Venus Project vision of central planning using to allocate resources is a good idea should research China's Great Leap Forward, which had a similar view of how "amazing technology" would benefit the people.

The technologies that were enforced ended up causing mass starvation. For example:
"On the communes, a number of radical and controversial agricultural innovations were promoted at the behest of Mao. Many of these were based on the ideas of now discredited Soviet biologist Trofim Lysenko and his followers. The policies included close cropping, whereby seeds were sown far more densely than normal on the incorrect assumption that seeds of the same class would not compete with each other. Deep plowing (up to 2m deep) was encouraged on the mistaken belief that this would yield plants with extra large root systems. Even more disastrously it was argued that a proportion of fields should be left unploughed."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

The Venus Project's one-world government view of eliminating all competition is simple COMMUNISM warmed over for a new generation.

[Rhys]

I'm always suspicious of enemies of the state who do their work unimpeded.... I'm also suspicious of high quality production value mixed with low quality research, it reminds me of "plausible deniability."

[Conza88]

- Concept of interest is WRONG. In the current system it is; sure - because you're paying interest on something that is COUNTERFEITED / FRAUD.

This is for those with low Iq's who struggle with logic. Nice & simple; you'll all learn alot.

http://freedom-school.com/money/how-an-economy-grows.pdf

Comic book form, few pages.

- All you see is corporations getting riled.
- There is never really a mention of government being the CAUSE of it being mentioned. It's not the government that is bad; it is the evil corporations.
- The Network segment; free market capitalism is singled out. But it's EXACTLY like MANAGED TRADE; they call it free trade; but it's fken not.
- Monetarism, yeah get rid of the fed. Let the free market choose what money is.
- Attacks selfishness & greed. :rolleyes:
- It really attacks fascism, yet coins it as capitalism, the bad evil corporations etc.
- The Ron Paul segment; TOTAL STRAWMAN.

It attacks the reasoning that Ron Paul being in power would matter; with exactly what Ron Paul has previously said.... lol. The thing is Ron Paul wouldn't be trying to "solve" the problems; that every single other politician has done.. by using GOVERNMENT FORCE. He would SOLVE it, with an actual SOLUTION - get government out of the way.

The law of the land, can be affected by more liberty lovers in congress and the senate. UMM, would the NWO WANT YOU TO AGREE WITH THIS PIECE OF SHIT? It doesn't matter if Ron Paul gets elected? WTF did they have a blackout for then? :rolleyes:

- Further attacks "we could build hospitals all over the world etc... we have those resources etc" but the problem is we have profit, etc.. >.<
- These ass clowns need to do Austrian Economics. Elimination of scarcity, haha. ECONOMIES OF SCALE; bitch. :rolleyes:
- Human nature doesn't exist? lol.
- It calls for "INTELLIGENT MANAGEMENT of the earths resources" = LOL, by whom? You can bet your fken ass he ain't saying it should be business or corporations.
- Transport; blame goes on corporate interests etc again. Government gets a brief mention; but doens't get the blame. The FACT is; in an anarcho-capitalist society; there would be no FORCE or COERCION that would be allowed to stop the free market, businesses etc.. from developing electric cars etc.

- Ok; the dude is attacking fascism now. Good. BUT NOT COLLECTIVISM. It's the left / right paradigm in FULL force. Commi pinko derates fascism. :rolleyes:
- "In the United States the most privatized and capitalized country on the planet... it also has the largest prison planet in the world" :eek: There you go; blaming capitalism and not fascism.

- The ELEVATOR MAN was made extinct because of MINIMUM WAGE laws. No word of a lie, Walter Block addresses it in one of his lectures.
- "Working towards the COMMON good" "The state does nothing, because there is no state" - bald dude. = Ohh AWESOME, anarcho-communism!! Let's all go back to the stone ages, what have aborigionals and american idians etc done for humanity? :rolleyes:

- "The whole community is the world.." "we are all one society"
- The nuclear weapon point; WMD's.... scientists made it etc... ASK YOURSELF who commissioned them? GOVERNMENT did... ffs. *facepalm*

- It mixes truths with lies very well. Actions for social transformation:
1) Good - expose fed
2) Good - turn off the tv. Protect internet.
3) Good - boycott military. "Work for US corporations" yes; implication goes back to corporations / capitalism though... NOT fascism which should be blamed.
Military industrial complex etc.
4) Good I guess - boycott energy (OIL they are referring to) companies... let the market know.. where you stand. We'll see if it can change much in a fascist environment :rolleyes:
5) reject political system. YEAH, don't do ANYTHING to try stop these scumbots. BECOME APATHETIC!!! Yeah, that's a solution. :rolleyes: "transcend" into bullshit more like it.

5) <-- Again; movie typo. Critical Mass... help spread the propaganda. :rolleyes:
Sorry, I'm with Rothbard, Ron Paul and then also the agorists.

Movie Summation:
- Money is evil
- Corporations are evil
- Profit is evil
- Some new age bullshit about REVOLUTION being only conscious; talk about remaining as a slave forever in the physical realm.

Fits the socialist agenda if I EVER saw one..

“No real social change has ever been brought about without a revolution - Revolution is but thought carried into action” ~ Emma Goldman

- Ohhh look at this ending... the capitalist world is all dark & dreary. Black & grey all horrible & devoid of life. :rolleyes: When we all become communists / collectivists etc, rise up against the capitalistic system, everything will be in wide screen technicolor!!

- MASSIVE ESOTERIC AGENDA.

[Joe3113]

Some excellent analysis there.

I believe Emma Goldman was the controller of John Wilkes Booth wasn't she?

The new-dealers say she was a British agent given the task of killing Lincoln.

[constituent]

I'm always suspicious of enemies of the state who do their work unimpeded.... I'm also suspicious of high quality production value mixed with low quality research, it reminds me of "plausible deniability."

very perceptive Rhys.

[constituent]

http://www.geocities.com/white_album_2000/rishikesh.jpg

what was that about sheep?