Ron Paul in Zeitgeist: Addendum

[RonPaulwillWin]

:D

12:44

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

[Joe3113]

I just got up to the Ron Paul part.

edit: This is actually pro-socialist. Don't recommend it.

[Andrew Ryan]

Huh..they made another movie.

[Alawn]

The first one had three parts (Christianity is fake, 9/11 was an inside job, The Federal Reserve is bad)

What is the new movie about? Which topics? I just skipped to that part. It looked like the part was on fractional reserve banking. If it is something stupid then I don't want to waste my time watching it.

[RonPaulwillWin]

I just got up to the Ron Paul part.

edit: This is actually pro-socialist. Don't recommend it.

Did you hear the end of part 2?

[Alawn]

this is a review I just read about it. Doesn't sound very good to me.


I was fortunate to attend the premiere of zeitgeist addendum yesterday night, and all i can say that it was mind-blowing. as expected, the information that was conveyed to the audience was explosive and intriguing at the same time. The film starts with the first part explaining the concept of the modern day banking scheme: the fractional reserve banking. This is a system that creates for every real dollar that is deposited x-amount of virtual dollars, which the bank then uses to lend over and over again. The system is based entirely on fraud and money is only created through debt (issue of loans). This concept is very critical as it gives insight to the financial disaster that we're experiencing. This is a system that enslaves people through inflation and interest rates, for that they're is never enough money in circulation to pay off the debt (interest).
The second part explains how economic warfare is waged against foreign countries that don't sell off their resources and allow the multi-national corporations to privatize foreign economies. The movie gives insight from a former economic hitman who explains the procedure in which the US, world bank and IMF go about pursuing their corporate agendas.
The third part illustrates who really runs the show on this beautiful planet: profit hungry and conscienceless corporations. the movie points out that the reason why there is so much suffering on this planet is because of the pursuit of profits. the filmmaker insist that as long as we have a monetary system and profit as our priorities there will never be equality and peace because this only promotes competition and selfishness without any intentions of the well being of the entire human species, the flora, fauna, and entire universe.
The fourth part offers the solution and this is a really interesting one: technology. they present technology in a very fascinating light, as a savior of life. The movie states that there are enough resources and that we have the technology today to provide food, shelter, energy and everything else from everybody on this planet. the problem lies in ownership and distribution of those essential resources. resources should owned by the entire human species and with the help of technology we should be freed from this artificial system of enslavement that forces us to compete for money and resources. technology should thus free us and allow us to become creators instead of competitors. there should be now laws because laws wont be needed when we dont need to fight to survive. there should be no money because there are no profit incentives.

After the screening there was a Q&A in which the filmmaker and the leaders of the venus project provided further insight. they stated that this is not a communist system because, there is no military, no money, and no laws involved. i understand that this is a very utopian goal, but it is definitely better to work towards this kind of society than what we are dealing with right now. We need to wake up and break through this systemic illusion that tries to suppress people. It's time to spread the information and to have an impact on society by living change and not hoping for it. i believe that there is an infinite consciousness that connects everything and that's why we have and always will progess!

[Cunningham]

I haven't gotten to the end of the video but from what i've read it appears that they believe that technology will or can create a post scarcity economy. It's probably that once all manufacturing is done by machines that cost of production essentially drops to zero. Classes should dissolve at that point as all products are free, essentially. I'd say that short of the development of nanite assembler technology we won't be seeing this utopia anytime soon.
I'll finish watching and see if thats what they're getting at.

[aravoth]

I just got up to the Ron Paul part.

edit: This is actually pro-socialist. Don't recommend it.

Initially I thought the same, but they blew socialism into small pieces of shit later on, along with every other form of government, saying that there is only one form of government that exists on planet earth, and it is called "monetarism". I kinda enjoyed it, of course it is pushing an agenda, but who isn't these days.

[DFF]

I'm watching it right now. Early, it's very economic heavy, focusing on the fractional reserve banking system, how it enslaves the population through inflating the money supply, and the subsequent debt that comes along with it.

[parke]

Pffffft...

I feel like an idiot for taking part 3 so fucking seriously.

Luckily, I woke up.

[Joe3113]

The first one had three parts (Christianity is fake, 9/11 was an inside job, The Federal Reserve is bad)

What is the new movie about? Which topics? I just skipped to that part. It looked like the part was on fractional reserve banking.

I'm surprised. I thought this Zeitgeist producer guy might be a libertarian.

lmao .... it's full on anti-capitalist.

[Ex Post Facto]

The whole 2 hour addendum is about the banking system...centralized banks...energy alternatives etc. It's pretty good stuff. Much better than the original.

[Perry]

:D

12:44

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

The funny thing is that Ron Paul himself will tell you how historically inaccurate that film is. IS THAT IRONIC OR WHAT?! :D

[tron paul]

I liked the Manly P Hall stuff about how all the religions are part fake and part symbolic.

The Zeitgeist series has brought a lot of people to the Ron Paul Movement.

Regardless of how liberal the conclusions are, it exposes millions to conservative premises.

Good on them!

No sense bashing on the 10% of stuff we disagree with them on, RIGHT???:rolleyes:

[Alawn]

They really think we have the technology to make production of everything free and nobody will ever be in need again? I don't buy it at all.

[DFF]

The whole 2 hour addendum is about the banking system...centralized banks...energy alternatives etc. It's pretty good stuff. Much better than the original.

The tube method of transportation caught my attention, because I've seen photographs of what look like ancient, alien transportation tubes on Mars...

[Andrew Ryan]

I agree that some of this is anti free capitalism.

[RonPaulwillWin]

The funny thing is that Ron Paul himself will tell you how historically inaccurate that film is. IS THAT IRONIC OR WHAT?! :D

You have to see the bigger picture of this movie. It's futurism stuff. Humanism, not nation stuff,..i'm thinking like maybe a few hundred years in the future in my mind. We might find aliens by then so that just might be the game breaker.


EDIT: It's star trek shit. :)

[Cunningham]

I don't think this is necessarily anti-capitalism, in the sense I think some might take this to be. It's not anti- free market. Those terms are only relevant in a scarcity system. Economics, even the Austrian school operates in a system of scarcity. Years ago I started looking into post scarcity economics. Once human labor for production is replaced with automation, price should be eliminated. Technology, by it's natural progression, will produce this eventually, probably in our lifetime. Anheiser Bush here in Columbus has automated much of it's shipping system. It had employed 28 people but now employs 12. They're going to add machines that will actually place palets on to the truck trailers, after that they will employee 5 people.
I do believe that a gold based, or stable currency would make this transition easier. Prices should be deflating as production increases. People should have greater buying power. Unfortunately our fiat/debt based system is screwing this up. The added buying power that should be spread by increased efficiency and lower prices is instead being consumed by the Banks through compounding interest. Instead we're getting rising prices coupled with the elimination of jobs by technology. Austrian Economics would allow an easier and faster transition to post scarcity.
Anyone that doesn't think we will eliminate large scale production through technology, I'd suggest visiting Ray Kurzweil's site at http://www.kurzweilai.net/index.html?flash=1

You may not agree with everything there but it does give a good glimpse at were technology is headed and a good idea of how far away technology that eliminates scarcity really is.

[OferNave]

Darn. I loved Zeitgeist I. Just finished watching II.

I think II is a good flick, he nailed about 80% of it really well. Just a bit misguided on his basic premises of freedom and money.

Wish I could have a long chat with the creator.

[DFF]

It's star trek shit

No. Minus the tube transportation, ALL these technologies are available. Right now. It's the oil/coal/nuclear industry that keeps them suppressed and tries to discredit anyone who opposes their agenda. Take wind energy, for example, and how T-Boone Pickens is being labeled "a nut" for his endeavors to advance it.

[Alawn]

You can't eliminate scarcity. How can there not be a limited amount of resources? What happens when the population increases? Are you going to kill everybody or do forced sterilization?

[Bossobass]

Anyone who needs this movie, especially being a quarter of a century into 'the information age', to understand his own country's monetary system is a TV Mutant.

Anyone who hasn't read the largest selling book in the history of this planet, by billions and billions, and needs this movie to condense it for him, is a TV Mutant.

Ron Paul told me once, when I asked him why he still travels the country tirelessly, saying the same things over and over, "Next to the Bible, the Constitution is the most important piece of literature ever written".

This movie is a sheep herder for those who are too lazy to find the facts for themselves.

100 years ago the Model T had 4 rubber tires, an internal combustion engine, got 25 mpg and was a flex fuel vehicle.

Technology my ass.

Bosso

[fatjohn]

Anyone who needs this movie, especially being a quarter of a century into 'the information age', to understand his own country's monetary system is a TV Mutant.

Anyone who hasn't read the largest selling book in the history of this planet, by billions and billions, and needs this movie to condense it for him, is a TV Mutant.

Ron Paul told me once, when I asked him why he still travels the country tirelessly, saying the same things over and over, "Next to the Bible, the Constitution is the most important piece of literature ever written".

This movie is a sheep herder for those who are too lazy to find the facts for themselves.

100 years ago the Model T had 4 rubber tires, an internal combustion engine, got 25 mpg and was a flex fuel vehicle.

Technology my ass.

Bosso

100 years ago the bible had exactly the same amount of information as now. Why would it solve our problems now?

Religion my ass.
If you need a book to teach you religion, your too lazy to think for yourself about the meaning of life.

[Cunningham]

You can't eliminate scarcity. How can there not be a limited amount of resources? What happens when the population increases? Are you going to kill everybody or do forced sterilization?

The video is talking about technology that would be as huge a transition as hunter gathers to agriculture or the advent of industrialization. Those changes lead to huge sociological changes, giant upheavals of the status quo. If someone went back in time and told someone about industrialization 10 or 20 years before it happened they would have laughed at it and called it impossible. But, industrialization brought about new economic and social paradigms.

With all the bio and nano technology thats being worked on right now is it really that hard to understand that we are probably living in another one of those transitional periods. Look at the societal change brought about by the invention of the printing press. New technologies will make our current ideas of the "State" and probably "economics" obsolete.
It may not be the complete elimination of scarcity but it could reduce it to the point of being irrelevant as far as economic calculation is concerned.

[AutoDas]

Maybe my understanding of economics is not up to par, but eliminating scarcity sounds impossible and like a Malthusian catastrophe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe), which contradicts what Marxism holds true.

[revolutionman]

More like Futurama! lol

Zeitgeist Addendum written, produced and directed by Dr. John Zoidberg

[Bossobass]

100 years ago the bible had exactly the same amount of information as now. Why would it solve our problems now?

Religion my ass.
If you need a book to teach you religion, your too lazy to think for yourself about the meaning of life.

I imagine there's a point you're trying to make, but it escapes me. Usually people who pontificate regarding the Bible have never opened one.

The meaning of life? I'm all ears.

I don't recall mentioning religion. Of the 66 books in the Bible, the word only appears 6 times in one chapter of one of the books.

Religion and politics. The 2 subjects Americans are taught from youth to avoid like the plague. It's no wonder that a YT flick like Zeitgeist has so much success in swaying Americans to think the Bible is just another religion and the Constitution is just another government.

Bosso

[TruckinMike]

Christianity is your FRIEND, not your enemy, Zietgeist does its best to destroy the notion of Christianity. Our founders, the same ones that fought , died, created the Constitution were for the most part Christian. And for the ones that were atheists, they understood the value of the Christian belief system to our society. Those of you that think living in a world without believers in Christ would be a good thing - are dead wrong. Todays problems can be summed up in one statement, Christianity is dying in America. As it does, so does the world, America and your freedom.

A moral compass is needed, and in the Christian world, believers believe that God knows of their mis-deeds, thus it provides a check on their behavior. Atheists have no check, its like a government running without a check and balance system. As a result, corruption hidden from view will be rampant, there is no difference with Man. Oh yes, Man will struggle, some will fight immorality better than others, but overall man alone will fail in this pursuit. That is exactly what you are seeing today in American politics. Behind closed doors and in the dark, our representatives deal themselves the cards from the bottom of the deck.

Ron Paul is a Christian. Could that be one of the reasons that he has been so consistent and honest???

Ok, back on topic....

TMike

[Joe3113]

You can't eliminate scarcity. How can there not be a limited amount of resources? What happens when the population increases? Are you going to kill everybody or do forced sterilization?

You can eliminate scarcity. It's called space exploration.

Colonize other planets and start developing the natural resources present on them.

[Verad]

Corporations (and the rights they hold, which comprise more rights than the individuals that make them up) are a government invention.

[DFF]

Those of you that think living in a world without believers in Christ would be a good thing - are dead wrong

This is a classic, violent, Freudian slip. You don't agree with agnostics/atheists, hence your hostile, reactionary response using the word "dead." Basically, what you're saying, whether you're aware of it or not, is that people whom don't believe in Christ, and think the world would be better off without religion, should all be killed. Thank you for unintentionally providing the perfect example of the tremendous division mankind's interpretation of religion has caused within our species. And on the by and by; I am a Christian. Believe it - or not. :)

[fatjohn]

You can't eliminate scarcity. How can there not be a limited amount of resources? What happens when the population increases? Are you going to kill everybody or do forced sterilization?

The movies topic is that if humanity focusses on technology instead of war and profit. Technologie would find a way to make it abundand. Technology will always grow faster then population.

[Conza88]

The movies topic is that if humanity focusses on technology instead of war and profit. Technologie would find a way to make it abundand. Technology will always grow faster then population.

Hahah... :rolleyes:!!!!

No it won't. Socialism / planned economy. Would love to see technology grow faster than population. Progress would = 0... then humanity would start to perish, population and technology would both utterly collapse. There is no "always", unless there is a capitalistic society in implementation. ;)

[LibertyInJeopardy]

Some crucial points not mentioned in the movie are:

1) From whom do you take the resources needed to create a fully automated resource?

2) Who is "intelligently managing" the resources? Who are the overseers of the resources while the rest of the people are out producing art and enjoying life? Is it an elected governmental body?

3) They mention "solutions" bring greater than laws. The example they give has to do with automated safety measures automatically installed in vehicles, ie a car that automatically pulls over if a person is driving drunk. In this idealistic society - what else will be imposed by the controllers of the technology to happen automatically for "the common good"? Do we really have liberty without laws if laws are replaced by monopoly of choice and automatic safeguards?

Overall, I think some of the concepts in the movie are possible and could completely change the world. In doing these things though, humanity must preserve individual liberty and the best document I have seen produced to aid in this effort is the United States Constitution. If these activities can be performed without violating the constitution, then I would gladly pursue certain parts further but only with consideration to individual liberty and the confines of constitution.

[Original_Intent]

I believe in worshiping almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience and allow all men and women the same privilege - let them worship how, where, or what they may.

I agree with a lot that they have to say about religion, and the rest of the moie was pretty good imo. I wonder if they dictate the end of religion. I wonder how they feel about eugenics. It seems like in their Utopia society that they are aiming for, people with physical or mental handicaps might blemish the bright, sunshiney world they envision.

I think it is a well intentioned and there is good motive behind the movie. I obviously have questions and disagreements with some of what they present.

[Magicman]

I'm watching this video, and something is very illuminati about it.

If you think about it, it's telling many many truths which is a good thing, but at the same time, look where it's pointing its fingers at, and how popular this video is. It's throwing the 'bait' out there for people to catch it; just like the Christian agenda in the last one. Don't think that the person behind it is trustworthy this is intentional so this change's public perception against the United States. It's almost as if the truths are being used against the U.S. and this video spread to make more people go against the U.S.

It's happening right during our economic crisis so this perception gives off that 'we deserve it' what's coming to us. Don't let yourself be deceived because guilt is one of their weapons. Especially, knowing that Venezeula is being armed right now by China so if something happens we perceive socialism/communism as liberators. This is the game being played.

[roho76]

I imagine there's a point you're trying to make, but it escapes me. Usually people who pontificate regarding the Bible have never opened one.

Bosso

I've read the Bible three times and I believe I understand it well enough and while I believe it holds some good morals I also believe it has some of the most horrific stories to get it's point across. I have always had trouble putting my arms around the reasoning why someone like "GOD" would need to spread fear, famine, and destruction using Religion amongst people that he created just to make them "believe" in him. And if this is how he tries to do it then it is counter intuitive to my beliefs of what are moral and good, so by default I can not participate.

But this is not what fears me. What fears me is that people feel the need to belittle others believes and hold theirs in such high regard using a rude and condescending tactics.

I recommend Thomas Paine's - The Age of Reasoning

[Suzu]

Our founders, the same ones that fought, died, created the Constitution were for the most part Christian. And for the ones that were atheists, they understood the value of the Christian belief system to our society.

Are you bychance referring to Benjamin Franklin who wrote: "Lighthouses are more useful than churches" - ?

Or to Thomas Jefferson who said "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man" - ?

Or did you mean John Adams' statements, "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" and, "this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it" -?

:p

[sirachman]

You can eliminate scarcity. It's called space exploration.

Colonize other planets and start developing the natural resources present on them.

Funny how everyone always passes by this main point.

[GlobalTyranny]

Hahah... :rolleyes:!!!!

No it won't. Socialism / planned economy. Would love to see technology grow faster than population. Progress would = 0... then humanity would start to perish, population and technology would both utterly collapse. There is no "always", unless there is a capitalistic society in implementation. ;)


It is a basic fact of life that as any nation or people based in poverty begin to become economically viable (under our current monetary system of course), and technology and knowledge is applied, increasing education, women take a more active role in society and birth rates fall.

This is the main reason that in the "first world" the average number of children per household is 1-3 and in the "third world" the average number of children per household is 6-9, even though the monetary economics of both are reversed.

If technology and a new awareness in consciousness were to take hold in our global society and we all worked together as a whole, rather than as a splintered, war-driven, greed-driven population, birth rates would drastically fall and the emergence of a high tech, socially spiritual, and connected society would emerge.

[Teenforpaul08]

Oops made a mistake.....

[Teenforpaul08]

You guys should expand your horizons and understand that socialism doesn't work because money and other seperatists notions are involved. Ron Paul challanged us to question government but we refuse to question society as a whole? How is that challenging the status quo?

Refer here http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=161090

[Conza88]

It is a basic fact of life that as any nation or people based in poverty begin to become economically viable (under our current monetary system of course), and technology and knowledge is applied, increasing education, women take a more active role in society and birth rates fall.

This is the main reason that in the "first world" the average number of children per household is 1-3 and in the "third world" the average number of children per household is 6-9, even though the monetary economics of both are reversed.

If technology and a new awareness in consciousness were to take hold in our global society and we all worked together as a whole, rather than as a splintered, war-driven, greed-driven population, birth rates would drastically fall and the emergence of a high tech, socially spiritual, and connected society would emerge.

OOOhhh increasing education! You mean like increase spending on it! :rolleyes: !

Dismantle Public Education. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swl8frWSNEQ)Welcome to the forums btw; watch & learn.

Education is hardly the be all end of. Money spend on education has increased, has it not? What has happened? Not going to college is seen as nuts, Most people go - MORE than they used to 50 years ago - that is for sure... MORE people are being "educated" in society for LONGER - ummm, how's that turned out for you guys? :rolleyes:

First world countries and civilizations tend to have declining birth rates because of the increased quality of life. As they move to service economies, not working on the land and living off it. For in those socities you need workers. The more you have, the greater amount of work you can do. Division of labour etc. Think Crusoe economics. If all a family has, is to sustain themselves - and live off the land, and their farm - they need only manual labor. The more children you have; the less likely it will be; you can provide better services for them etc. You've only got a given amount of capital to spend. The less children, the more capital to go towards improving and providing for them.

Nice little pipe dream utopia you've got there, what the hell is with the 'collectivly work together"? :rolleyes: Sorry, capitalism will achieve your dream. You're on the wrong track.


You guys should expand your horizons and understand that socialism doesn't work because money and other seperatists notions are involved. Ron Paul challanged us to question government but we refuse to question society as a whole? How is that challenging the status quo?

Refer here http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=161090


http://outdoors.mainetoday.com/trailhead/tribe.jpg


Anarcho-Communism.

Where you want to take us all. Civilization that is. How about you get in a plane, and get set up. We'll ummm, catch up... yyyyyeahhhh, that's it. See you there. :rolleyes:

[m72mc]

Great movie

[Conza88]

Great movie

Because..................................

[jyakulis]

I just got up to the Ron Paul part.

edit: This is actually pro-socialist. Don't recommend it.

lol...no it's not.

He is just suggesting a new paradigm for looking at the world. And he is correct in saying the monetary system creates a lot of the problems we see today. Did you not see the clip from the "Network". I mean that sums it up.

Anyway, he says first the change must come about in each and everyone of us. We just aren't there spirtually and philosphically at this point. This is even more evident in this thread from people's inability to let go of their deeply held beliefs and pre-conceived notions.

[Conza88]

lol...no it's not.

He is just suggesting a new paradigm for looking at the world. And he is correct in saying the monetary system creates a lot of the problems we see today. Did you not see the clip from the "Network". I mean that sums it up.

Anyway, he says first the change must come about in each and everyone of us. We just aren't there spirtually and philosphically at this point. This is even more evident in this thread from people's inability to let go of their deeply held beliefs and pre-conceived notions.

LOL, yes it is.

He is suggesting alot of stuff that would make Karl Marx squeal with delight. Have you ACTUALLY seen the ENTIRE movie called "Network"?! Cus then you'd know - and would have realised the editting they did to that scence... WOULDN'T YOU? :rolleyes:

"WE just aren't there spirtually and philosphically at this point."

Who the fuck is WE? Because it CERTAINLY isn't ME / I !!!

Take your diatribe elsewhere please. Truth is self evident... how about you remove the cobwebs of ignorance eh? :rolleyes:

[rockandrollsouls]

Initially I thought the same, but they blew socialism into small pieces of shit later on, along with every other form of government, saying that there is only one form of government that exists on planet earth, and it is called "monetarism". I kinda enjoyed it, of course it is pushing an agenda, but who isn't these days.

Wrong. They are pushing their "resource" based economy. They don't claim it's socialism, but it really is on steroids. There's no fine line there...


And as for that review on the first page....typical liberal hollywood ring a bell?

[rockandrollsouls]

You guys should expand your horizons and understand that socialism doesn't work because money and other seperatists notions are involved. Ron Paul challanged us to question government but we refuse to question society as a whole? How is that challenging the status quo?

Refer here http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=161090

Socialism doesn't work for more reasons than that, teen. The utopia described in this movie is straight out of "Animal Farm."

[jyakulis]

LOL, yes it is.

He is suggesting alot of stuff that would make Karl Marx squeal with delight. Have you ACTUALLY seen the ENTIRE movie called "Network"?! Cus then you'd know - and would have realised the editting they did to that scence... WOULDN'T YOU? :rolleyes:

"WE just aren't there spirtually and philosphically at this point."

Who the fuck is WE? Because it CERTAINLY isn't ME / I !!!

Take your diatribe elsewhere please. Truth is self evident... how about you remove the cobwebs of ignorance eh? :rolleyes:

lol ok buddy. i mean look at you. i have to leave this place because i don't agree with you. you talk the freedom talk, but you sure don't walk it.

and no i havn't seen the network, but i fail to see why that matters. he's just saying all those political structures are controlled by their monetary systems.

[Conza88]

lol ok buddy. i mean look at you. i have to leave this place because i don't agree with you. you talk the freedom talk, but you sure don't walk it.

and no i havn't seen the network, but i fail to see why that matters. he's just saying all those political structures are controlled by their monetary systems.

You have to leave? Says who? S-t-r-a-w-m-a-n...

Property rights > Freedom of Speech.. is there anything you don't understand about that? Anyone else who speaks in collectivist terms know? :rolleyes:

The fact that you fail to see why it matters; means you fail. I could edit a Ron Paul speech, where it would thus conclude he supports communism. :rolleyes:

[GlobalTyranny]

Some crucial points not mentioned in the movie are:

1) From whom do you take the resources needed to create a fully automated resource?

2) Who is "intelligently managing" the resources? Who are the overseers of the resources while the rest of the people are out producing art and enjoying life? Is it an elected governmental body?

3) They mention "solutions" bring greater than laws. The example they give has to do with automated safety measures automatically installed in vehicles, ie a car that automatically pulls over if a person is driving drunk. In this idealistic society - what else will be imposed by the controllers of the technology to happen automatically for "the common good"? Do we really have liberty without laws if laws are replaced by monopoly of choice and automatic safeguards?

Overall, I think some of the concepts in the movie are possible and could completely change the world. In doing these things though, humanity must preserve individual liberty and the best document I have seen produced to aid in this effort is the United States Constitution. If these activities can be performed without violating the constitution, then I would gladly pursue certain parts further but only with consideration to individual liberty and the confines of constitution.

I like people like you. Thinkers. You don't just reject the idea because it challenges your paradigm, you actually consider the possibilities and then ask the tough questions.

1.)

I will probably say it many times in my writings on this forum. If you change the structure of the system, you have to change your views and ideas about that system as well.

I've told countless people over the last 20 years that we need to remove money from the equation of life, and every single person by default, responds with an alternative that is the exact same as the original because they don't take the new idea and apply new and creative ideas to manage it.

"If it's not a money system than it has to be a barter system, or a trade system." It's been ingrained into us since birth and it really surprises me that more people don't question it.

If you remove money, you remove the need to barter, or to trade. If everyone went to work tomorrow but we simply eliminated the transference of money, nothing at all would change. You would have some displaced jobs such as in the economics and analysts field, except there would still be a requirement to monitor a resource based economy and the flow of commodities. Other displacements could sort themselves out.

If we simply declare all of Earth's resources as the inheritance of every man, woman and child on the planet, than the answer to your question is we take the resources from the whole, to create abundance and happiness for the whole.

Since (it is true) 90% of all current jobs can be automated using computers, machines, and robotics, mining metal ore out of the ground and producing synthetic plastics, and other building materials is completely attainable without the need to "pay" for it. You simply do it.

All of the sectors that make up our world are already in place, we simply need to remove the idea that it's all for "profit" and introduce the idea that it's all for "prosperity" and you start automating this system that is currently in place.

If humans were relied upon as the only means to create the commodities to allow for every human on the planet to live without want, we would all be working 24/7, 365 days a year, forever, and it still wouldn't get done.

You introduce robotics and automation, and each process becomes more efficient, more intelligently designed (providing higher quality products that last longer), and they are developed exponentially faster.

2.)

Ultimately, we all intelligently manage the resources through the use of technology. Once our world has changed and there is no material want because anything can be supplied at any time, and our education and health care systems are overhauled and running at peak efficiency with the best and most accurate, up-to-date knowledge and technologies being applied, our earth-based industries and infrastructures are completely automated, this will open the door for space-based tracking systems that can monitor the resource economy, as well as neutralize any perceived threat.

Much like our weather system and telecommunications, scans of the environment can produce immediate data to warn of any potential hazards or threats, which can be fed into central computing systems on the ground instantly. Instant feedback of anything happening at any time. As of today, we have systems that can track the movements of weapons or commodities, and instantly neutralize any system that is tampered with or used for violent purposes.

Why don't we use them now? Because that wouldn't be "profitable". War is profitable, terrorism is profitable. Maybe not for the man on the street who loses his family in a high rise that gets struck by an airplane, or the city of 10 million who have to cope with a nuclear detonation, but certainly for the designers of the current system, which brings us back to the main problems of today. We even have systems being built by companies like Ratheon and Lockheed that can track people on the planet through microchip implants, but I'm sure you're already aware of the purpose of such a system.

I personally don't ever plan to accept a chip or even a National I.D. card, but the point is, the technology exists and can be used for protective purposes instead of destructive purposes. It will be up to all of US to keep such systems aligned for the common good. "Evil does not happen in a vacuum, you have to give it permission."


3.)

Regarding a lack of laws, created or perceived, that is something that would more than likely develop over a very long period of time. You would have to have a certain number of laws in the beginning. Every being in the Universe knows the difference between "right" and "wrong" in the context of how to live with one another. It is the driving force of financial stress that creates many of the situations we have today. Another problem is the corporate controlled mass media machine that fills our society with messages of hate, violence, separation, despair, anguish, sadness, etc. All of that would disappear rather quickly, albeit not without first going through a chaotic time of transformation.

However, with our current system every day is chaotic for many. I think the first step though would be to remove government as we know it and bring power of choice back to the people. I would personally like to create a voting system whereby every home is provided with a computer interface with, for an example, a topic of the day, and people vote on it, and even make their own suggestions if preferred, globally.

Of course such voting wouldn't revolve around ridiculous things like whether to raise or lower taxes, or any of the bull we have today, but things like ideas and concepts for space exploration, or where best to place a natural habitat to study and eliminate toxic ocean waste, or the best ways to repair the biosphere of the earth, or asking for volunteers to do an arctic wildlife study to save the species nearing extinction, or concepts for applying de-salination plants to increase the fresh water supply, or volunteers for agriculture stimulation in the deserts across the globe, etc.

All that data is fed into an artificially intelligent super computer, which do exist already in unacknowledged special access programs here and abroad, and is sorted, filtered, and presented back to the public for either more voting, or to just communicate to the masses what is taking place, where.

I see all of this as "good, constructive questions" that can lead us forward as a global community. The "bad questions" are am I going to lose my home to forclosure? Will I be able to feed my family this week? Will I be living on the streets next year? Will the economy collapse and when? When is the next Holocaust? How many will die in the next war? How many trillions do we owe the system today, and how in hell are we supposed to pay back the interest on our debt when all the money in circulation is the principal amount? Duh. I don't know, but who cares, because Jay Leno is on tonight and I'm picking me up a six pack!

Short answer: With 6 billion of us on the planet, I'm sure we can figure it out. Liberty = Freedom...However, true freedom cannot exist under a monetary system because Money = Debt...and thus slavery. So you tell me.


------------

I agree that the U.S. Constitution is an excellent document, under the present system. However, it would have to be revised somewhat under the new system, mainly the areas dealing with monetary gain, since that will no longer exist.

For me, our current system comes down to this:

Whatever we can imagine is achievable as long as we can afford it.

Under the new system it will read more like:

Whatever we can imagine, with genuine interest for the good of humanity, is completely achievable.


I apologize for this being so long, but I have a question for everyone. What barriers do you see in creating a world without money? I personally don't see any, except for the ones involved with actually getting there. I need some new information to contemplate. :)

[adara7537]

[QUOTE=GlobalTyranny;1739728]I like people like you. Thinkers. You don't just reject the idea because it challenges your paradigm, you actually consider the possibilities and then ask the tough questions.

+1

[Dutchie]

So, if someone has a different view than you guys, than you are against it.

It is about information, freedom of information. You guys are becoming sheep
only interested in your own views.

The constitution is about freedom of ideas.

[GlobalTyranny]

OOOhhh increasing education! You mean like increase spending on it! :rolleyes: !

Dismantle Public Education. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swl8frWSNEQ)Welcome to the forums btw; watch & learn.

Education is hardly the be all end of. Money spend on education has increased, has it not? What has happened? Not going to college is seen as nuts, Most people go - MORE than they used to 50 years ago - that is for sure... MORE people are being "educated" in society for LONGER - ummm, how's that turned out for you guys? :rolleyes:

First world countries and civilizations tend to have declining birth rates because of the increased quality of life. As they move to service economies, not working on the land and living off it. For in those socities you need workers. The more you have, the greater amount of work you can do. Division of labour etc. Think Crusoe economics. If all a family has, is to sustain themselves - and live off the land, and their farm - they need only manual labor. The more children you have; the less likely it will be; you can provide better services for them etc. You've only got a given amount of capital to spend. The less children, the more capital to go towards improving and providing for them.

Nice little pipe dream utopia you've got there, what the hell is with the 'collectivly work together"? :rolleyes: Sorry, capitalism will achieve your dream. You're on the wrong track.




http://outdoors.mainetoday.com/trailhead/tribe.jpg


Anarcho-Communism.

Where you want to take us all. Civilization that is. How about you get in a plane, and get set up. We'll ummm, catch up... yyyyyeahhhh, that's it. See you there. :rolleyes:

Wow. Who burnt your turkey? You have an awful lot of anger in you, huh. I am simply suggesting ideas here as the movie has done. It's not saying "we have to do it this way!" like the Clinton/Bush dual monarchy, reveling in their own moronic self expression.

I see you like to push people's buttons. So that makes you what...five? Good sense of maturity. :p

I just wanted to quote this again:

"OOOhhh increasing education! You mean like increase spending on it!"

Without a monetary system there would be no spending on anything. You simply put in place the system you wish to create. Actually Ron Paul's ideas for eliminating completely the initial education system (grades 1 - 12) would work well in the new society because with industry nearly completely automated the average persons work week could be reduced to 10-15 hours, providing a great deal of time for home school education and the pursuit of their life ambitions, which for most people is not doing the ridiculously mundane things we do today.

However, I would suggest a robust, technically advanced level of post-home education for any technical learning that could be applied to our future ambitions and progressing humanity further.

Since children learn a great deal more when they are young and are open to every conceivable possibility, I would recommend institutions that could further specific development within the framework of the arts, science, natural health, consciousness studies, etc.

In the beginning of societies transformation there would have to be a great deal of counseling, forgiveness and social programs readily available to deal with poverty stricken communities and areas of the world where bloodshed is part of a thousand year cycle. However, each country should be free to setup such programs specific to their culture.

Again, without cost because the world would not have a monetary system. I don't want to confuse you Conza.

You speak of anarchy. Well, we have that today...the third world mostly, however we are well on our way towards it here. In the beginning if someone is violent, you do what you do today. We incarcerate them. However, incarceration would also change with no money to dictate the quality of care and counseling someone of aggressive mind receives.

They would also have the ability to see society change for the better around them. That in itself is motivation to change your ways. Ask some of the inmates who have been incarcerated for 25 years or more how much they wish they could go back into their past and change their actions. They are totally different people now. We're all supposed to be progressively changing. It's called evolution. But nothing of importance changes under a monetary system. That's the point of the argument.

Another valiant point is that with all the misery and suffering we see today, that would be gone for the most part within a generation, because the children being born and raised in the new society would not know anything different, and they would achieve monumental success in their lives and really push the envelope of what we as a global community can create.

I'm not sure what world you live in Conza, where the current era is so fantastic with massive economy shifts, paralyzing poverty, war, disease, greed and immense suffering, 100 million people dying every year globally just from hunger which is absolutely ridiculous, the continuing polluting of the planet, injustice rapidly accelerating, etc and so on, and that is just scratching the surface.

You enjoy all this? Do you actually have a solution, or are you just here to attack people who think differently than you. I'm not about to insult you if that's what your looking for. Your simply not worth it. :D

By the way, most of the families you speak of who farm their land, are living in such ridiculous famine and squalor that to farm is their only choice to survive as they do. Because of the their "financial means" or lack thereof, they do not have a choice to do anything different, so in essence they're large family is a direct result of the money system that has enslaved them.

Take that system away, provide the means to live extravagantly with full educational and health benefits that are based on knowledge, compassion and technology, and they won't choose to farm anymore, because farming will be just another automated process, hence reducing birth rates.

You remind me of a lot of people I talk to about this. You cannot think about the new system (no monetary value attached to anything) by applying your knowledge and ideas that are based on the old system. It simply won't work. Do you think people aren't spiritually ready for this? You can't create new ideas? Just more of the same?

That is tragic!

[Hiki]

*snip*

Thank you.

[RonPaulR3VOLUTION]

"What has always made the state a hell on earth has been precisely that man has tried to make it his heaven."


http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6263/borgcubeux6.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7744/hugh2li8.jpghttp://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7744/hugh2li8.jpghttp://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7744/hugh2li8.jpg

"We are Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

"We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us."

[Conza88]

Wow. Who burnt your turkey? You have an awful lot of anger in you, huh. I am simply suggesting ideas here as the movie has done. It's not saying "we have to do it this way!" like the Clinton/Bush dual monarchy, reveling in their own moronic self expression.

Do You Hate the State? (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard75.html) by Murray N. Rothbard

Go read that... but I doubt you will. Guess which one I am? ;)


I just wanted to quote this again:

"OOOhhh increasing education! You mean like increase spending on it!"

Without a monetary system there would be no spending on anything. You simply put in place the system you wish to create. Actually Ron Paul's ideas for eliminating completely the initial education system (grades 1 - 12) would work well in the new society because with industry nearly completely automated the average persons work week could be reduced to 10-15 hours, providing a great deal of time for home school education and the pursuit of their life ambitions, which for most people is not doing the ridiculously mundane things we do today.

However, I would suggest a robust, technically advanced level of post-home education for any technical learning that could be applied to our future ambitions and progressing humanity further.

Please link me to "Ron Paul's ideas for eliminating completely the initial education system (grades 1 - 12)".... his official site would be best.


Since children learn a great deal more when they are young and are open to every conceivable possibility, I would recommend institutions that could further specific development within the framework of the arts, science, natural health, consciousness studies, etc.


Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted. ~ Vladimir Lenin


That erroneous assumption is to the effect that the aim of public education is to fill the young of the species with knowledge and awaken their intelligence, and so make them fit to discharge the duties of citizenship in an enlightened and independent manner. Nothing could be further from the truth. The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all, it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States, whatever the pretensions of politicians, pedagogues and other such mountebanks, and that is its aim everywhere else. ~ H.L. Mencken


We must create out of the younger generation a generation of Communists. We must turn children, who can be shaped like wax, into real, good Communists.... We must remove the children from the crude influence of their families. We must take them over and, to speak frankly, nationalize them. From the first days of their lives they will be under the healthy influence of Communist children's nurseries and schools. There they will grow up to be real Communists. ~ Communist Party Education Workers Congress (1918)

Sound oddly familiar in sentiment? :eek:


In the beginning of societies transformation there would have to be a great deal of counseling, forgiveness and social programs readily available to deal with poverty stricken communities and areas of the world where bloodshed is part of a thousand year cycle. However, each country should be free to setup such programs specific to their culture.

You sound like a social engineer. Want to run this society much? Whose going to do all this you speak of? :rolleyes:


Again, without cost because the world would not have a monetary system. I don't want to confuse you Conza.

Economic illiterate. Seriously. You think if you eliminate a monetary system, you eliminate cost? :rolleyes: I don't SPEND energy, when I use my physical labour?

I don't admire people like you. You don't think.

What has Government done to our Money? (http://mises.org/money.asp) - Your real education begins now. You can choose to worship a pipe dream, amazingly devoid of facts mockumentary called addendum. Or you can read Murray Rothbard. Some of the most clear, logical, reasoning, thinking on the subject of the monetary system ever written. I already know which direction you'll choose... I just thought I'd give it a shot.


You speak of anarchy. Well, we have that today...the third world mostly, however we are well on our way towards it here. In the beginning if someone is violent, you do what you do today. We incarcerate them. However, incarceration would also change with no money to dictate the quality of care and counseling someone of aggressive mind receives.

No, see I speak of Anarcho-CAPITALISM. The 3rd world is largely anarcho-COMMUNIST. And they've stayed that way because of socialism, you clown. NO property-rights! It's exactly what Karl Marx wanted, cept without the totalitarian state.


They would also have the ability to see society change for the better around them. That in itself is motivation to change your ways. Ask some of the inmates who have been incarcerated for 25 years or more how much they wish they could go back into their past and change their actions. They are totally different people now. We're all supposed to be progressively changing. It's called evolution. But nothing of importance changes under a monetary system. That's the point of the argument.

How naive do you want to be. There have been guys on death row and they have no remorse what so ever. Wouldn't change a thing. "Nothing changes under a monetary system..." The Economic IGNORANCE continues....

A FREE MARKET in money. (Go read the book I linked to above) Where the market chooses what is money.... UMMM, yeah - so what the fuck were you talking about? :rolleyes: The market could choose sea shells if it wants... or silver.. or gold.. You don't call that change? :rolleyes:


Another valiant point is that with all the misery and suffering we see today, that would be gone for the most part within a generation, because the children being born and raised in the new society would not know anything different, and they would achieve monumental success in their lives and really push the envelope of what we as a global community can create.

Please thank your friend Karl Marx and his 5th plank for the misery caused in 1929 and what we are seeing right now.


I'm not sure what world you live in Conza, where the current era is so fantastic with massive economy shifts, paralyzing poverty, war, disease, greed and immense suffering, 100 million people dying every year globally just from hunger which is absolutely ridiculous, the continuing polluting of the planet, injustice rapidly accelerating, etc and so on, and that is just scratching the surface.

I live in the world; called 'reality'. Here we go again Mr socialist... you propose all those problems on CAPITALISM? Your ignorance is amazing... please tell me what you would define capitalism as; then go tell me what you would define fascism as... Can you tell the difference... ? Even when looking at the REAL world? You obviously haven't been able to so far... Better yet; go read the 10 planks.. refresh yourself with how many are in societies all over the world today.


You enjoy all this? Do you actually have a solution, or are you just here to attack people who think differently than you. I'm not about to insult you if that's what your looking for. Your simply not worth it.

Does it look like I'm enjoying it? I do have a solution... and I've been fighting for it even since I woke up. Insult me all you want.. it'll be like water off a ducks back. Mate, my left pinky is worth more than the sum of all your parts. :cool:


By the way, most of the families you speak of who farm their land, are living in such ridiculous famine and squalor that to farm is their only choice to survive as they do. Because of the their "financial means" or lack thereof, they do not have a choice to do anything different, so in essence they're large family is a direct result of the money system that has enslaved them.

Take that system away, provide the means to live extravagantly with full educational and health benefits that are based on knowledge, compassion and technology, and they won't choose to farm anymore, because farming will be just another automated process, hence reducing birth rates.

http://freedom-school.com/money/how-an-economy-grows.pdf

It's a comic book, something for your level of iq. Enjoy... maybe then you'll come to your senses. ;)


You remind me of a lot of people I talk to about this. You cannot think about the new system (no monetary value attached to anything) by applying your knowledge and ideas that are based on the old system. It simply won't work. Do you think people aren't spiritually ready for this? You can't create new ideas? Just more of the same?

That is tragic!

That's good to know...! if a lot of other people are out there defending freedom & liberty against your insanity... good on them! :D

"no monetary value attached to anything" =


http://www.hanulak.com/cavemen/cavemen.jpg

Umm, "create new ideas" - "FREEDOM IS NEW. TYRANNY is old." - Ron Paul.

What's tragic is you thinking you are some kind of intellectual.

[Conza88]

So, if someone has a different view than you guys, than you are against it.

It is about information, freedom of information. You guys are becoming sheep
only interested in your own views.

The constitution is about freedom of ideas.

Hahaha... No, the constitution is about limiting the power / role of government...

Have you not read the Declaration of Independence? :rolleyes:

Can I just ask; is it a coincidence all of you agreeing with eachother trying to appear to have developed a consensus, all have about a hundred posts and you all joined about the same time? Can someone enlighten me here?

jyakulis - 126 posts Dec 07
adara7537 - 100 posts Dec 07
Fatjohn - 140 posts Jan 08
Dutchie - 33 posts - Jan 08
GlobalTyranny - 3 posts Oct 08

:eek:

[Conza88]

I'm going to post this here... Originally at ronpaulforpresident.com in response to some tools over there, who much remind me of the ones in this thread.


Yeah ummm... I used to be a semi socialist independent leaning democrat. Worshiped Chomsky, even wrote him a letter and he responded. Atheist / agnostic now.. even though raised Roman Catholic. Woke up to Ron Paul and everything he stands for 7 months ago... logically progressed since then, no holds barred go where the truth does. Used to think AJ was a nut when I first arrived to the movement... but then I witnessed the blackout for myself.. I thought the media was all about money. But RP had that... no; there was a bigger agenda at play. Power! All started to slot in.

I used to believe in global warming and climate change. But then I came to the realization of its true agenda.

The urge to save humanity is almost always a false-face for the urge to rule it. – H.L. Mencken

Anyway; so sorry I don't fit into any of your stereotypes as to why I would OBJECT to this piece of shit mockumentary... I hate ignorance & I hate lies... but i approach everything with an open mind. I've actually got the first zeitgeist on harddrive & really liked it.

If you WANT something outside the box go watch Esoteric Agenda... it SHITS on this joke of a movie.

All you clowns who want to support this; go on to give up everything you've fought for the last few months / years. It's such a shame.

Someone contended I'm attacking it because it goes against my beliefs?

Yes = my belief in freedom & liberty.

In Liberty,
Conza88.

[adara7537]

I'm going to post this here... Originally at ronpaulforpresident.com in response to some tools over there, who much remind me of the ones in this thread.

You are talking about Esoteric Agenda shitting on Zeitgeist? I mean I wouldn't go that far but it was good.

And seriously, if you want to get your point across to people you should try not be so hateful. I mean I know it's hard but it works much better.

You still don't understand what any one of us is saying. Perhaps when you understand what we are saying you can attempt to tell us we are wrong.

[Alawn]

This needs to go to Hot Topics where it belongs. I can't believe any Ron Paul supporter could fall for this garbage.

[ClockwiseSpark]

This needs to go to Hot Topics where it belongs. I can't believe any Ron Paul supporter could fall for this garbage.

I enjoyed the movie a great deal but if we're going to do something like that I demand light sabers and transporter systems beforehand! :p

[Spider-Man]

I just watched this last night.

The biggest load of garbage, I thought, was the assertion that men are inherently good, and when left to their own devices, with all their basic needs met, they will automatically start becoming creative and productive. "Man looks to the moon and the stars and..."

... Yeah, right, and then starts masturbating and eating to the point of obesity and playing World of WarCraft all day.

They have a few good suggestions, like boycott the military and the banking cartel... but I'm afraid I'm finally going to have to call bullsh*t on Zeitgeist.

[bbagnall]

If the Zeitgeist people want to live their utopia without currency and without jobs, that's fine. Go for it. More power to them. They can do that under a true libertarian system.

But if the rest of us want to use money as a means of exchange, and we want to own a car (private property rights) then that is our right too.

The second the Zeitgeist people say that I have to give up my car because it is theirs too, then I would have a problem with them.

As far as I can tell, it is never really very clear how their system would work, but it seems very similar to Communism to me. The language sounds like Marx.

[RevolutionSD]

If the Zeitgeist people want to live their utopia without currency and without jobs, that's fine. Go for it. More power to them. They can do that under a true libertarian system.

But if the rest of us want to use money as a means of exchange, and we want to own a car (private property rights) then that is our right too.

The second the Zeitgeist people say that I have to give up my car because it is theirs too, then I would have a problem with them.

As far as I can tell, it is never really very clear how their system would work, but it seems very similar to Communism to me. The language sounds like Marx.

Exactly. It's pure marxism. Peter Joseph keeps saying it could all be done without government but never offers just how it would be done. He's asking people to drop their self-interest, basically go against their innate nature. It's a crazy idea. I like the idea of just no government, period. We don't need it and we also don't need the Venus Project telling us how to think and live. A gold currency and the free market will solve most of our problems.

[Wyurm]

Gah, watch Star Trek TNG. This is almost the same system that is used in Star Trek -- no money, resource based, and space oriented. It is possible for humanity to live this way without violating each other's rights. Believe it or not, what is being proposed is closer to anarchy than socialism. However, it won't work right now because humanity is in no way shape or form ready for it.

[ImstillforRP]

Gah, watch Star Trek TNG. This is almost the same system that is used in Star Trek -- no money, resource based, and space oriented. It is possible for humanity to live this way without violating each other's rights. Believe it or not, what is being proposed is closer to anarchy than socialism. However, it won't work right now because humanity is in no way shape or form ready for it.

I agree with what you said and I have heard that link before. But the notion that humanity is not ready for it sounds a bit speculative. Do we have to evovle to a different species for it to work? I think if the mindset is in a society like a resourced-based society. People's incentives and mindsets would change as well.

[josephadel_3]

Ron Paul isn't at 12:44. I just went there and the whole minute surrounding it and he doesn't show up. What are you talking about?>

[Alawn]

Gah, watch Star Trek TNG. This is almost the same system that is used in Star Trek -- no money, resource based, and space oriented. It is possible for humanity to live this way without violating each other's rights. Believe it or not, what is being proposed is closer to anarchy than socialism. However, it won't work right now because humanity is in no way shape or form ready for it.

Are you seriously using a fantasy movie/TV show about the future as proof that a system could work in real life? It is fiction. They can say whatever the heck they want. Are warp drives possible or breeding between species from different planets also possible because Star Trek says so?



Ron Paul isn't at 12:44. I just went there and the whole minute surrounding it and he doesn't show up. What are you talking about?

At one point in it it does have Ron Paul telling Bernanke how bad the Fed is. I forget where. But later at 1:04:00 it says that voting for people like Ron Paul is a waste of time and the wrong thing to do. Really I think it is worse having Ron Paul in it and other truthful things that freedom minded people believe in. What it ends up doing is tricking freedom minded people into believing the false stuff and sends them in the wrong direction. It also associates us with totally insane socialist propaganda and turns away people who would otherwise be receptive to Ron Paul's message.

[ImstillforRP]

At one point in it it does have Ron Paul telling Bernanke how bad the Fed is. I forget where. But later at 1:04:00 it says that voting for people like Ron Paul is a waste of time and the wrong thing to do. Really I think it is worse having Ron Paul in it and other truthful things that freedom minded people believe in. What it ends up doing is tricking freedom minded people into believing the false stuff and sends them in the wrong direction. It also associates us with totally insane socialist propaganda and turns away people who would otherwise be receptive to Ron Paul's message.

You again mischaracterize what the movie stated I feel this is very rude and shameful. Ron Paul stands for honesty and we cannot act like the people that made Ron Paul look like an "isolationist."

The movie stated that, no matter how ethical a politician is (like Ron Paul), with the same system, the same things will occur. Things like greed and corruption will always occur. Ron Paul, alone, cannot take downs the interests that have been in the government longer than Ron Paul has been alive.

[H Roark]

You again mischaracterize what the movie stated I feel this is very rude and shameful. Ron Paul stands for honesty and we cannot act like the people that made Ron Paul look like an "isolationist."

The movie stated that, no matter how ethical a politician is (like Ron Paul), with the same system, the same things will occur. Things like greed and corruption will always occur. Ron Paul, alone, cannot take downs the interests that have been in the government longer than Ron Paul has been alive.

My, my you sure take the critique personally don't you? For someone that is "still for RP" you seem to not have much faith in Dr. Paul's solutions. Everybody check out ImstillforRP's record of posts, 6/9 posts are in defense of Zeitgeist and one of the non-Zeitgeist posts reads as follows...


Bearing arms to prevent something like conflict is a very unhealthy and unproductive way to interact with others.

I wouldn't be surprised if you created this account specifically to defend Zeitgeist and continue the swindle the movie already attempts at doing. You've been outed. The Zeitgeist agenda is about centralization and the fact that people need to go on here and fake their credentials is telling. Its going to take alot more than slick production to make a dent to this campaign.

[ClockwiseSpark]

I wouldn't be surprised if you created this account specifically to defend Zeitgeist and continue the swindle the movie already attempts at doing. You've been outed.

teenforpaul08

I would bet it's the same person.

[ImstillforRP]

My, my you sure take the critique personally don't you? For someone that is "still for RP" you seem to not have much faith in Dr. Paul's solutions. Everybody check out ImstillforRP's record of posts, 6/9 posts are in defense of Zeitgeist and one of the non-Zeitgeist posts reads as follows...



I wouldn't be surprised if you created this account specifically to defend Zeitgeist and continue the swindle the movie already attempts at doing. You've been outed. The Zeitgeist agenda is about centralization and the fact that people need to go on here and fake their credentials is telling. Its going to take alot more than slick production to make a dent to this campaign.

Ron Paul is the best politician that we have in America, of course my faith is only with him. I just feel confused about this whole system and whether it's viable anymore. I just don't know. There's always going to be starving people with no food and there's going to be rich people with more than enough food. In a modern world, I just don't see people dying from starvation acceptable anymore. If we can prevent it, we should, I think. And we can, with the help of technology.

[Magicman]

Wow, I was just talking to someone else, and I felt a feeling about the first one but now feel solified that this new one and the author is Illumati-based mind control. They work in telling many truths and then throw it at you while putting in your own weaknesses like guilt and then start to put in their grand deception of lie with their agenda. When you have that intuition you see through this crap. That's why they've used racism, classism for centuries because they can easily warp and manipulate these caste systems, and why communitarianism was so important to destroy the individual rights so they didn't have a nation with self-empowerment and their own rights.


Notice, when they released this video it was RIGHT after the market crisis. If you listen close to the part with Jon Perkins he tells all these truths and they use the anger the viewer would get to shift the blame on the U.S. and instate an agenda with socialism. This is probably the same mind-control tools used during the downfall of communism in Russia. It's being used again at us as mind control and a way to divide the truth movement and religious folks against each other.


I felt that he has an agenda the last time and then definitly see it now to split the truth movement. This agenda wants to use the guilt along with the anger when the global markets crash against the U.S. as a pre-plan it's freudian slip of the tongue speak. I believe that people will lose faith in their governments and the banks so they will accept a new currency and a world council. I'm starting to see the puzzle pieces fit as this imposter wants you to shift the focus on the market while putting guilt and fear-mongering in you. This to me is like how these guys like Obama are using words like free energy as buzz words now or the same thing with the neoconservative movement termed as doublespeak. It's trying to condition your mind to accept these things so then when it is implemented your thoughts are going to accept it.


Here's where I feel that this agenda may happen in the near future.


I believe there maybe a fixed election with the results being that Obama lost because of voting fraud with Mccain winning. Notice, at the beginning of the primaries there was evidence of fraud on Clinton's part. Obama's campaign didn't care and make any moves about any rigging.


Now, there trying to state that there will be fraud and rile up their supporters. All of this before the election? Why didn't they care before when there was evidence of tampering during the primaries.


When Mccain wins along with the press this will cause an unstable volatile situation and more dissent to the economic crisis and will make prices rise astronomically with the loss. This is hidden language though for the future. Once this scenario plays out will incite riots across America and fuel minority anger towards capitalism. This will solidify Obama as a martyr while Bush and Mccain as the end of the U.S. The agenda of one is to divide while the other puppet is to unite.


The intention and my consensus is to destroy the constitution and individualism as Bush and Mccain will the death of the U.S. and then a transitional government will be used when the U.N comes into play. This is why Obama is pushing those bills now he's proposing as people will remember them when there going to use him as the tool and his identity to appeal to minorities and the global consensus with dissent; his socialist agenda is intentional as his silver-tongue is perfect for ushering in the New World Order as his federal government expansions along with universal appeal are marketed in a way to accept a new brand of socialist government which wouldn't be feasible until the markets crash then his agenda will be permissable.


Notice, his third world and U.N. loyalties along with disregard for the Constitution and U.S.? That is also intentional. It's like there using his identity as a marketable appeal, collectivism along with his rebellion to the old way so the keywords 'change' to institute the U.N. resolution and put him into power. Why else are they so pushing a guy with very little experience and such strong connections with the CFR? Start looking at the policies now and how it makes sense for a NWO establishment. This includes his new institutionalized college programs, and character assassination programs.


The world banks along with the major press will blame America and capitalism for its ills and the stock market once the global markets collapse. This will then incite anger around the world and most people will blame America and will shift the blame policy-wise away from the truth of artificial inflation. At this point in time as David Rockefeller says, 'Americans will never accept the U.N. to be in Los Angeles but in the future they will be their saviors.
'

The goal is to wipe away the middle class, and distance the poor from the rich as the first steps are to accept socialism with the New World Order Council and put in Obama as the head spokesman of the world council as one of the head council and use his silver-tongue to fool the masses. In people's minds ANYTHING is better, his name is very popular, the Constitution will be displaced because of the crisis and collapse then the current situation hence why the Rothschilds, Rockefellers and rest of the family are planning to make a world currency with the monetary system as they collapse the banking institutions to 'fix' the problem (they created).


They'll probably give a bunch of gifts like free energy and say hey LOOK now the world's problems are solved! Look what we're doing to change them so this becomes a world solution, not a national one. No more oil and wars let's give you a world currency that won't bust so nations come together with the new technology and solutions in 'peace' meanwhile these too good to be true solutions will continue to disseminate the public institutions with the new doctrinization of brain washing and destroy national sovereignty and as people give up their personal liberties, rights of man and their freedoms for collectivism and 'world' solutions the tragic enslavement of global affairs will become enslaved for the grand deception.

[H Roark]

Ron Paul is the best politician that we have in America, of course my faith is only with him. I just feel confused about this whole system and whether it's viable anymore. I just don't know. There's always going to be starving people with no food and there's going to be rich people with more than enough food. In a modern world, I just don't see people dying from starvation acceptable anymore. If we can prevent it, we should, I think. And we can, with the help of technology.

RON PAUL'S FREEDOM PRINCIPALS

* Rights belong to individuals, not groups.
* Property should be owned by people, not government.
* All voluntary associations should be permissible -- economic and social.
* The government's monetary role is to maintain the integrity of the monetary unit, not participate in fraud.
* Government exists to protect liberty, not to redistribute wealth or to grant special privileges.
* The lives and actions of people are their own responsibility, not the government's.

Give up already, we're onto you. You are no friend to liberty. You are just another new age roach who's sole purpose of joining this forum is to push the insidious Venus Project scheme. You will be squashed everywhere you go.

[josephadel_3]

Magicman has some damn good points. His post kind of articulated what I've been thinking all along.

[bbagnall]

Gah, watch Star Trek TNG. This is almost the same system that is used in Star Trek -- no money, resource based, and space oriented. It is possible for humanity to live this way without violating each other's rights. Believe it or not, what is being proposed is closer to anarchy than socialism. However, it won't work right now because humanity is in no way shape or form ready for it.

The Star Trek universe depicts a civilization where people are clearly making and designing the technology they use. All those great star ships with awesome weapons on them for blowing other ships apart are the product of humans. When they show ships under construction in a huge hangar, humans are making the them, not robots.

So what is there to motivate humans to roll out of bed and go down to the engineering department every day? Could you imagine trying to get the lower engineering staff to show up on time without pay? How about the guy who cleans up in the cafeteria? There are no visible consequences for performing badly in your job.

Competition is what brings out the best in people and always has throughout history. That's what being human is about. We don't have holodecks but we have video game consoles. They are incredible (and getting better) because one company decided to make a console and another said, "We're going to try and do better than you." Same with video game makers - they are continually trying to one up each other. Competition is a good thing. And the rewards associated with making those games and consoles is a big factor that allows the business to perpetuate itself. We need material wealth to make material goods.

Star Trek is a writer's fantasy that just wouldn't work in the real world. And it also seems like Deep Space 9 uses some kind of currency. The Ferengi seemed like they were always doing business of some kind.

[jrskblx125]

out of that whole movie .... id have to say the most important statement would have to be the idea that being wrong is looked down upon. like they say in the video, being wrong should be applauded because it implies that critical thinking has actually occurred... i get so pissed off at my engineering professors making us feel lower than them because of our lack of knowledge when they should be applauding the fact that though we didnt come up with the right answer, the ball was rolling and what their job is, is to tell us what we did wrong and why its wrong.

when you yourself come up with an idea, you should be proud that you can exercise your brain to come up with your own logic, while remaining open minded about other peoples ideas... nothing would ever be created without out someone being wrong. The idea of problem solving is hidden in the necessity for someone being wrong. and honestly when it comes to religion or philosophy, no one is wrong. petty arguments about religion is useless. my argument to anyone pushing philosophical beliefs or what this video is really about is... prove it. theres no way to prove this video is pushing an agenda... its doing its job of MAKING PEOPLE THINK. question authority, question why we wear what we wear, or why we drive what we drive, or why we shop for the cheapest price available. in our early years of life we instinctively ask the question "why?" at some point that natural curiosity of everything disappears as we grow older.
WE are guilty of accepting the status quo in the first place and WE are the only ones that can change it.