Ron Paul would leave abortion up to the STATES!!

[Expatriate]

That thread "Ron Paul is Passionately 100% PRO-LIFE" makes it sound to a casual reader like Ron Paul would use his executive power to outlaw abortion if he were president. He has said repeatedly that it is a state issue.

Roe vs. Wade is a clear violation of state's rights. If abortion is is too sensitive an issue to be left up to the individual states, then why on earth would we want to leave it up to the corrupt federal government?

I have a feeling that abortion is the most often disagreed-upon issue among people on this forum. But think about it this way; put yourself in the opposing viewpoint's shoes for a moment. One side believes, understandably, that to ban abortion would be to rob a woman of her right to control her own body, and the other side believes, also understandably, that to allow abortion would be to rob a human being of their right to not be killed.

What would be more humane? To legislate across the board in favor of one side, and horribly offend the sensibilities of the other, or allow individual states to decide? We already allow states to decide on legalization of capital punishment, which could be seen as a similar issue since it deals with life and death.

As for Ron Paul's authoring of bill H.R. 1094 to define life as beginning at conception; it would still be up to the states to decide whether or not to outlaw prenatal killing. Heck, states can even legalize adult murder if they want. Whether anyone would want to live in such a state is a separate question. But I'm sure many states would still want to allow prenatal killing or "abortion", and I'm sure many people would still want to live in or visit those states so that they could participate.

But admitting there is a problem is the first step down the long road to recovery, as AA says. What is wrong with referring to abortion as killing? It's pretty obvious to anyone with an elementary understanding of biology that a fetus is alive. The term "abortion" in my opinion is a euphemism so that people can feel better about themselves.

In a perfect world, we would have either 100% effective "always on" birth control, or a way to remove the fetus from the womb without killing it. But until we get there, we're just going to have to deal with some people who don't desire a baby wanting to kill it. The question is; what's more important to us? The right to have unprotected sex, free of consequences, and the right of a woman to control her own body, OR, the right of all human beings not to be killed unjustifiably. I'm sure that some of us will always have differing opinions on this matter and therefore, I think it would be most sensible to let legislation on the matter be kept as local as possible.

Just my two cents. What do you think?

[jmdrake]

Overturning roe v. wade and leaving abortion up to the states is the default pro life position. There was no great clamor for federal legislation to ban abortion everywhere prior to the Roe decision. Ron Paul did (reluctantly) vote yes for the one recent piece of federal legislation putting restrictions on abortion. (The partial birth abortion bill). His preferred position would be to legislate away the authority of the federal courts to rule on the abortion question.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[Doktor_Jeep]

Is this going to be another one of those issues where people who claim to hate centralized government want to make an exception for something they want?


You are either with the idea of decentralized power, or against it. Once you make a "special case", then EVERYBODY's case is special and we are back to square one.

[jmdrake]

Is this going to be another one of those issues where people who claim to hate centralized government want to make an exception for something they want?


You are either with the idea of decentralized power, or against it. Once you make a "special case", then EVERYBODY's case is special and we are back to square one.

I'm not sure who you're pointing the finger at here. I'll restate Dr. Paul's position. He's against the federalizing of the abortion question via Roe v. Wade. That's the default pro life position. Pro lifers are pretty confident that if left to the states abortion would be banned in most states. Dr. Paul did, however, vote for the partial birth abortion ban. He warned about the danger of that position but said continuing supreme court action left little choice. (No pun intended).

[RonPaulNewbee]

I voted against Bush in 2 elections, switched Republican to vote for Ron Paul, ended up voting for Baldwin (whose only position I really disagree with is abortion), and I support Obama. There is a method in the madness. I am against centralized government when it is authoritarian. Our country is assbackwards now. Sovereignty should come from the people and I don't want government "ruling" me. Back in the "real world" the federal government has gotten too powerful. That said, I am against partial birth abortion. To me that implies the fetus is viable. Before it is viable it cannot be a citizen, in my view. It may be human - to a degree - but it cannot get up and say "hello chaps what are you doing with that implement of death?"

As a people we still have not figured out a cure for hunger. Or homelessness. Or war. Or unemployment. Or disease. Or unwanted pregnancy.

At some point in the development of the zygote the life form becomes a blastocyst. Sometime by 8 weeks the blastocyst becomes an embryo, where the cells differentiate. After that the embryo becomes a fetus. At 25-28 weeks the fetus may survive, but only with space alien technology. I believe that a fetus is not a child until it takes its first breath. Before that, it is a possibility. I don't see how the government can legislate on possibilities. Leave it to We the People, not the state, not the federal government.

I do see a place for government, just not inside my mind or body.

[Andrew-Austin]

What is the constitutional basis for leaving the abortion issue up to the states?

[newyearsrevolution08]

Is this going to be another one of those issues where people who claim to hate centralized government want to make an exception for something they want?


You are either with the idea of decentralized power, or against it. Once you make a "special case", then EVERYBODY's case is special and we are back to square one.

We are talking about PARTIAL abortion, not just "someone's special case"....

that is like comparing apples to hippos

[newyearsrevolution08]

What is the constitutional basis for leaving the abortion issue up to the states?

Because it wasn't IN the constitution or needed. Isn't it up to the states how they want to run things anyways. The fed constitution is the basic freedoms and liberties that we ALL get to enjoy or used to.

We don't need new additions federally to change things state by state. If a state wants to allow gambling then GREAT, it shouldn't be left up to the fed to tell a state otherwise. I think that goes with ANYTHING not mentioned in the constitution.

I don't think it has anything to do with leaving abortion up to the states at all, but rather more of a thing of the federal government NOT having any RIGHT at all to tell states what they can or cannot do. The constitution gives the fed ZERO say over anything including state abortions.

My personal view....

I think abortions were pushed into a "womens rights" issue because if it wasn't about "a woman and her body and her right to choose" it would then be a discussion and debate about "when is this fetus a baby, a person, given the rights and liberties like every other person." and then what basis would people have for abortions to even take place?

I think they allow them to help reduce population. I have heard of women having 5+ abortions and I don't agree with it at all. I can ALMOST understand the rape issue, ESPECIALLY with a minor BUT even with that, it wasn't the babies fault and odds are the main reason to abort a baby that came from a rapist is due to NOT wanting the baby from the person who hurt you RATHER than "it's a womans choice to choose to keep a baby or not".

[Natalie]

If somebody murders a pregnant woman, it is considered a "double murder." But abortion is okay? Makes no sense.

[newyearsrevolution08]

If somebody murders a pregnant woman, it is considered a "double murder." But abortion is okay? Makes no sense.

OR the murder seems much more gruesome. Maybe if they asked if the lady was going to keep the baby or not, then that would depend on if they classify it as a double or single murder.....

A killed pregnant woman ALWAYS adds an added "f-you" to the person who committed the crime.

You bring up a good point, well not a good point but a point just the same.

What are your thoughts on that "double murder" theory for those who believe either IN abortion, not a baby until XX weeks, and so forth?

Would you consider that a double murder or simply a person with extra baggage and a single murder?

Don't they usually get MORE jail time due to the circumstances like described above? And if so how is that fair?

Why is it murder once the baby is out of the body but a womens decision while the baby is "in the oven"?

----

This entire subject bothers me. I am more irritated at WHAT people fight over with this topic. I don't think it is a womans rights thing, whether or not the baby is really a baby yet and so forth BUT RATHER shitty parents who are not teaching their kids to STOP HAVING UNPROTECTED SEX and stop walking around sluttin up the world!

If people would spend their money, fights, and efforts on educating our youth then we wouldn't even have this many abortions going on right now. I also think that many woman do it because it is "Easier" to do AND since it is mainstream they don't feel bad about it.

A man + woman make a baby, I think it should be THEIR decision no matter who cares for the baby until it comes out.

Focus more on the unprotected sex and not using any form of contraceptive versus having some "moral fight" over who is right and who is wrong.

The great thing about liberty though, if someones life doesn't affect mine then I am happy. Not saying that I agree with what everone does in this world and odds are plenty disagree with me as well, but that is what makes us all unique.

[newyearsrevolution08]

If somebody murders a pregnant woman, it is considered a "double murder." But abortion is okay? Makes no sense.

I wonder if anyone has tried to use that defense in court? Anyone know?

All you would have to prove odds are is her "intent" to abort the baby odds are...

[Andrew-Austin]

Because it wasn't IN the constitution or needed. Isn't it up to the states how they want to run things anyways. The fed constitution is the basic freedoms and liberties that we ALL get to enjoy or used to.

Yes, but some say the basic freedom of choosing what they want to do with their body, or the basic right to live is covered in the Constitution?

[QUOTE=Some guy]My argument against abortion on demand is based upon the 5th and 14th amendments and if abortion on demand is to ever be banned, it will be based upon one or both of them. That being the case, the states will have no power in the matter because the life of the unborn will be protected by the constitution. No state has the authority, or power to deny anyone a constitutionally protected right.

I'm just discussing this on another board wondering how to respond to this.

[newyearsrevolution08]

[QUOTE=newyearsrevolution08;1837764]Because it wasn't IN the constitution or needed. Isn't it up to the states how they want to run things anyways. The fed constitution is the basic freedoms and liberties that we ALL get to enjoy or used to.

Yes, but some say the basic freedom of choosing what they want to do with their body, or the basic right to live is covered in the Constitution?

Originally Posted by Some guy
My argument against abortion on demand is based upon the 5th and 14th amendments and if abortion on demand is to ever be banned, it will be based upon one or both of them. That being the case, the states will have no power in the matter because the life of the unborn will be protected by the constitution. No state has the authority, or power to deny anyone a constitutionally protected right.

I'm just discussing this on another board wondering how to respond to this.


The LIFE of the UNBORN....

Not that I am for abortion though...

I am really unsure to be honest. If we are granted the right to life and happiness based on that then when does that life start. I think that is the issue, most assume conception and others assume actual birth.

Is it the womans right to dictate whether the living baby has the right to life or not? Or does she simply have the right to whether SHE lives or dies?

I personally do not think it should be a political effort either way BUT should not be pushed under a womans right issue either. Most issues they toss under a "movement" like womans rights, black rights and so forth simply segregate us further and classify each of us differently when we ALL are one in the same.

[Andrew-Austin]

I am really unsure to be honest. If we are granted the right to life and happiness based on that then when does that life start. I think that is the issue, most assume conception and others assume actual birth.

I'm unsure as well, and I think it is a fairly subjective decision to say exactly where human life begins. This uncertainty itself could be a reason for leaving it up to the states, as it would be better for more local government to define exactly where they feel life begins if it is subjective.

That the founders failed to more closely define life with abortion in mind is most unfortunate... Thej either just never thought of it, or intentionally omitted it to leave it up to the States. The former sounds more likely to me.

[newyearsrevolution08]

I'm unsure as well, and I think it is a fairly subjective decision to say exactly where human life begins. This uncertainty itself could be a reason for leaving it up to the states, as it would be better for more local government to define exactly where they feel life begins if it is subjective.

That the founders failed to more closely define life with abortion in mind is most unfortunate... The either just never thought of it, or intentionally omitted it to leave it up to the States. The former sounds more likely to me.

That is my point as well. If an entire state VOTES that something should be legal or illegal then in my opinion that state made its own decision VERSUS the federal government making it for them.

BUT then again that could be broken apart with, well what right is it of the state to tell our city what is right or wrong, THEN broken down to, what right is it of this city to tell ME what I can or can't do with my body.

I think it should end at state rights until city constitutions come about. I don't see why they would BUT who knows....

[Natalie]

I wonder if anyone has tried to use that defense in court? Anyone know?

All you would have to prove odds are is her "intent" to abort the baby odds are...

George W. signed that into law after Scott Peterson killed his pregnant wife and their unborn son. I think it's called Connor's Law, named after the baby.

[newyearsrevolution08]

George W. signed that into law after Scott Peterson killed his pregnant wife and their unborn son. I think it's called Connor's Law, named after the baby.

That was a sad deal all around indeed. I watched that all the time myself.

I wonder if he could have pleaded a case with the abortion issue. Not that I would ever side with that prick BUT just for the debate and conversational aspects of this entire thread.

[LBennett76]

I don't think abortion has anything to do with a "woman's rights". I think it is a catchphrase, a ruse to cover up the true issue at hand... why do women have abortions? Have you ever met anyone whose had one to ask them? Sadly what you'll tend to hear is how the FATHER influenced their decision. You'll find women who were abandoned by the men who impregnated them, men who flat out told them to have one, men who coerced them into it. Abortion isn't an out for women with unplanned pregnancies. It's an out for the men who get women pregnant. If a woman is unsure and her man responds excitedly, she in return will become excited. If the man immediately dismisses it and shows his displeasure, offering up money for the abortion... she's more than likely going to go with what he says.

Case in point, when I told my boyfriend at the time that I was pregnant, the FIRST word out of his mouth was "abortion?!" said with a hopeful look on his face. He offered me money for one and did everything he could to make me feel horrible for having chosen to have my son. For several years after that he would remind me how much he resented me having him because he had to pay child support for a kid he never wanted. He hoped I would find a man to marry who would adopt him so he wouldn't have to pay anymore. He's since chilled as he has another child by another woman now, but the memory of that experience has greatly influenced my views on abortion. As long as abortions are offered on demand, then men will continue to have the option to demand a woman to have one.

I do believe abortion should be available in the cases of rape and incest as these were criminal acts committed against the woman. But these account for only a small fraction, roughly 5% of all abortions. Case in point again, When my son was 2, I was raped and became pregnant. As a single mother barely scraping by, I was truly faced with a tough decision. I made what I thought at the time was the best decision. Being very pro-life, it nearly destroyed me. In fact, to this day I feel a piece of my soul is missing. (Added to a lot of physical female problems it has caused). But I feel it was for the best given the circumstances.

In both cases though... who is the culprit? Men. Abortion is all about the man. I think most women contemplating abortions would have their children if the men in their lives supported them.

That said... it is should be a state issue in regards to regulation.

[klamath]

I don't think abortion has anything to do with a "woman's rights". I think it is a catchphrase, a ruse to cover up the true issue at hand... why do women have abortions? Have you ever met anyone whose had one to ask them? Sadly what you'll tend to hear is how the FATHER influenced their decision. You'll find women who were abandoned by the men who impregnated them, men who flat out told them to have one, men who coerced them into it. Abortion isn't an out for women with unplanned pregnancies. It's an out for the men who get women pregnant. If a woman is unsure and her man responds excitedly, she in return will become excited. If the man immediately dismisses it and shows his displeasure, offering up money for the abortion... she's more than likely going to go with what he says.

Case in point, when I told my boyfriend at the time that I was pregnant, the FIRST word out of his mouth was "abortion?!" said with a hopeful look on his face. He offered me money for one and did everything he could to make me feel horrible for having chosen to have my son. For several years after that he would remind me how much he resented me having him because he had to pay child support for a kid he never wanted. He hoped I would find a man to marry who would adopt him so he wouldn't have to pay anymore. He's since chilled as he has another child by another woman now, but the memory of that experience has greatly influenced my views on abortion. As long as abortions are offered on demand, then men will continue to have the option to demand a woman to have one.

I do believe abortion should be available in the cases of rape and incest as these were criminal acts committed against the woman. But these account for only a small fraction, roughly 5% of all abortions. Case in point again, When my son was 2, I was raped and became pregnant. As a single mother barely scraping by, I was truly faced with a tough decision. I made what I thought at the time was the best decision. Being very pro-life, it nearly destroyed me. In fact, to this day I feel a piece of my soul is missing. (Added to a lot of physical female problems it has caused). But I feel it was for the best given the circumstances.

In both cases though... who is the culprit? Men. Abortion is all about the man. I think most women contemplating abortions would have their children if the men in their lives supported them.

That said... it is should be a state issue in regards to regulation.

What you said is true. Many Dads do not want to take the responsibility for the pleasure of sex.
Very sad story.

[SnappleLlama]

I don't think abortion has anything to do with a "woman's rights". I think it is a catchphrase, a ruse to cover up the true issue at hand... why do women have abortions? Have you ever met anyone whose had one to ask them? Sadly what you'll tend to hear is how the FATHER influenced their decision. You'll find women who were abandoned by the men who impregnated them, men who flat out told them to have one, men who coerced them into it. Abortion isn't an out for women with unplanned pregnancies. It's an out for the men who get women pregnant. If a woman is unsure and her man responds excitedly, she in return will become excited. If the man immediately dismisses it and shows his displeasure, offering up money for the abortion... she's more than likely going to go with what he says.

Case in point, when I told my boyfriend at the time that I was pregnant, the FIRST word out of his mouth was "abortion?!" said with a hopeful look on his face. He offered me money for one and did everything he could to make me feel horrible for having chosen to have my son. For several years after that he would remind me how much he resented me having him because he had to pay child support for a kid he never wanted. He hoped I would find a man to marry who would adopt him so he wouldn't have to pay anymore. He's since chilled as he has another child by another woman now, but the memory of that experience has greatly influenced my views on abortion. As long as abortions are offered on demand, then men will continue to have the option to demand a woman to have one.

I do believe abortion should be available in the cases of rape and incest as these were criminal acts committed against the woman. But these account for only a small fraction, roughly 5% of all abortions. Case in point again, When my son was 2, I was raped and became pregnant. As a single mother barely scraping by, I was truly faced with a tough decision. I made what I thought at the time was the best decision. Being very pro-life, it nearly destroyed me. In fact, to this day I feel a piece of my soul is missing. (Added to a lot of physical female problems it has caused). But I feel it was for the best given the circumstances.

In both cases though... who is the culprit? Men. Abortion is all about the man. I think most women contemplating abortions would have their children if the men in their lives supported them.

That said... it is should be a state issue in regards to regulation.

:eek:

Wow...I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that!

[Natalie]

Did anybody here ever see the video "Silent Scream"? Google it, and you can watch it online. Just skip to part 3. I watched it yesterday, it was pretty horrible.

In the film, they talk about this doctor that had performed over 10,000 abortions. Using an ultrasound, he was finally able to watch himself actually perform an abortion at 12 weeks. When he sticks the tube in there, the baby's heartbeat goes up to over 200 beats per minute. You can see the little guy struggling, and you can actually see him open his mouth like he's screaming, hence the title of the film. After the doctor went back and watched the video, he never performed another abortion.

I actually don't really care if they make abortion legal or not, I just thought it was an interesting film.

[LBennett76]

Thanks for the thoughts...

And thanks for making me aware that the Silent Scream was available on YouTube. Painful to watch. VERY painful. But you know what?! That's the truth.

I think if more people were aware of what abortion actually is and everything surrounding it... they wouldn't respond so frivolously to it. It should be taken much more seriously in a much more serious context. Forget politics. This is a real issue and it truly needs to be dealt with. ... appopriately.

[newyearsrevolution08]

I love it when people feel they need to say "see he is for your rights" or "See he isn't a racist at all" as though they actually have to speak up for the man himself.

People need to stop worrying about what other people think and start using their own judgment and decisions in life.

[muh_roads]

Did anybody here ever see the video "Silent Scream"? Google it, and you can watch it online. Just skip to part 3. I watched it yesterday, it was pretty horrible.

In the film, they talk about this doctor that had performed over 10,000 abortions. Using an ultrasound, he was finally able to watch himself actually perform an abortion at 12 weeks. When he sticks the tube in there, the baby's heartbeat goes up to over 200 beats per minute. You can see the little guy struggling, and you can actually see him open his mouth like he's screaming, hence the title of the film. After the doctor went back and watched the video, he never performed another abortion.

I actually don't really care if they make abortion legal or not, I just thought it was an interesting film.

It's a propaganda film from 1984 where they fast forward the frames making it look like it was reacting. There is no functioning brain to compute what is going on until 22 weeks.

[SnappleLlama]

It's a propaganda film from 1984 where they fast forward the frames making it look like it was reacting. There is no functioning brain to compute what is going on until 22 weeks.

Hmm...it sounds a bit familiar. I went to a Catholic High School and we were forced to watch an abortion video, and this sounds like the one.

[cradle2graveconservative]

Edit

[LBennett76]

It's a propaganda film from 1984 where they fast forward the frames making it look like it was reacting. There is no functioning brain to compute what is going on until 22 weeks.

Where are your sources for this information about brain functioning? Because mine say differently.
Look here:
http://www.baby2see.com/development/week12.html
and here
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112
and here
http://www.wpclinic.org/parenting/fetal-development/first-trimester/

Just curious where you heard that.

[muh_roads]

Where are your sources for this information about brain functioning? Because mine say differently.
Look here:
http://www.baby2see.com/development/week12.html
and here
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112
and here
http://www.wpclinic.org/parenting/fetal-development/first-trimester/

Just curious where you heard that.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=silent+scream+propaganda&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

[klamath]

Many on here are no better than neocon's dehumanization of muslim's. Muslims don't feel the collateral damage from cluster bombs any more than that a fetus feels a needle. That makes it ok.

[LBennett76]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=silent+scream+propaganda&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

I meant about brain development. The sites I list tell quite a bit about brain function at and before 12 weeks.
I don't care about propaganda sites declaring things propaganda. That just goes in circles. I was talking strictly about fetal development... according to places like the Mayo Clinic. So if the anti-Silent Scream sites are saying something different than legitimate medical sources... then they are propaganda themselves.

:rolleyes:

[muh_roads]

I meant about brain development. The sites I list tell quite a bit about brain function at and before 12 weeks.

You are taking my words way too literally. There is a sack of goo in the head where the brain is forming. But the brain isn't developed enough to feel pain at 12 weeks.

EDIT: I'm sure you'll disregard this because of the website it comes from, but there are medical doctors here explaining the errors with the movie.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/issues-action/abortion/anti-choice-activity/reports/facts-speak-louder-than-silent-scream-6136.htm

[Joey Wahoo]

I haven't read all four pages of comments on this thread, so pardon me if someone has already made these points.

Dr. Paul has been strongly anti-abortion his entire career. He wrote a book in the 70s on the subject of the liberty of the unborn. He authored and sponsored the Sanctity of Life Act. He advocates having the federal government declare that life begins at conception. As an OB-GYN who has delivered over 4,000 babies, he knows this to be true scientifically.

Obviously he doesn't favor any federal laws criminalizing abortion because he follows the constitution--and the only federal crimes authorized in the constitution are piracy, conterfeiting and treason. Murder is not a federal crime, and neither is abortion.

Dr. Paul's anti-abortion record is stronger than ANY politician in America. I've heard him speak on this subject many times and he NEVER supports his position by quoting bible verses or appealing to the authority of God or the Pope or anything of the sort. His position is based on his medical experience, and the fact that believers in liberty oppose any use of force against the innocent.

Those who are pro-abortion can try to spin it any way they like, but the undeniable fact is that Ron Paul is an adamant champion of children in the womb, and is unconditionally opposed to abortion.

peace

[LBennett76]

Please read my first post in this thread. It says it all about this subject.

[Expatriate]

Anyone seen this before?
http://www.peterrussell.com/Odds/WorldClock.php

Abortion appears to be the leading cause of death in the world, even though it is not officially considered death (it's listed under the "cars produced, bicycles produced" area. Hit the "NOW" button on the top right to see a real-time approximation of events occurring.

I never realized it was so common. And those are just the reported ones.

By the way, I made this thread to argue for RP's position, since I thought the other one misrepresented it to a casual observer. Most people I know think pro-life means pro-federal ban on abortion.

[berrybunches]

I had an abortion when I was 16, my boyfriend did not want it at first but then changed his mind. I wanted it the whole time for many reasons and did not care what he had to say for a few reasons:
1) He was an idiot
2) I was a drug user at the time
3) I was very irresponsible
4) I simply did not want a baby

My decision did not bother me at all until I got married and contemplated actually having a child. I started questioning "What validates my fetus's life? Does just simply wanting it to live make its life more valid somehow? Do I just 'think' it into being valid?" This bothered me and I started to feel like I really did murder a life.
I think that if I had to do it over I would make the same choice and I think that if I got pregnant again I may even do it again. I don't really think its the right thing to do and I think pro-lifers surely have the stronger argument so I really do not know what to say for myself here. Possibly it is something I need to do some soul searching on.

I can say this: I was pregnant for 2 months and I really started feeling a connection to the fetus. I did not perpetuate these feelings of attachment through thoughts or actions, they were just there and I tried to repress them. This says to me there is a life force there, I could feel it. It was powerful.

Legal aspects:
I have no children but regardless I do not think it should be illegal, people have been aborting babies possibly since the dawn of humanity and I think it should be safe. If it is a moral issue, which I think it possibly is, than the government should not regulate morals imo. My boyfriend lived in Egypt for a long time and he said that young girls are forced to get abortions by their mothers or they choose on their own all the time as to not shame the families name, he said they are very dangerous there and cause death of the mother a lot of the time. We do not need any of that in the United States and if we did have it it would be the rich who would still get safe abortions while the poor and irresponsible would not have the choice. Sure, having sex is a choice, but its such a natural thing for people to partake in and a very difficult urge to resist, especially for young people since their bodies are designed to have babies when they are teenagers.

I think this is a difficult issue all around and that there are no perfect answers.

[The_Orlonater]

From one tyrannical state to another. We pick and choose which liberties we want.

[RonPaulMania]

You are taking my words way too literally. There is a sack of goo in the head where the brain is forming. But the brain isn't developed enough to feel pain at 12 weeks.

EDIT: I'm sure you'll disregard this because of the website it comes from, but there are medical doctors here explaining the errors with the movie.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/issues-action/abortion/anti-choice-activity/reports/facts-speak-louder-than-silent-scream-6136.htm

I'm sure you understand those with a vested interest, i.e. Planned Parenthood, have less to gain than someone who made the movie for no monetary benefit other than to see murder for what it was.

Did you know that the "Centurions" are a group of ex-abortionists who admit all the lies and deception they caused people and became mentally ill so they formed this group for therapy for killing the unborn? I was privy to listen to a woman who did 8,000 abortions explain her history for free to a group of students just to tell them the horrors, mental illness of the women who have them, and the outright deception of Planned Parenthood (she was a manager for them). Her name escapes me, but I believe it was Joan Appleton. Actually I'm right, and here is a sliver of her story:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/abortion/ab0049.html

It even mentions the Centurions as well.

One more thing, I've never seen an abortionist leave the profession and sell their information to become rich. They do it as a way of retribution for the evil they have done. I've seen a pro-lifer become pro-abortion without the anger that goes along with it. I've seen both sides, and abortion is outright evil, as well as those who lie to the women and cause them mental illness and don't discuss that fact with them.

Abortion: 1 dead, 1 wounded