PDA

View Full Version : What is honor?




jonahtrainer
09-05-2007, 10:55 PM
Man, Ron Paul is sure a lot gentler than I would have been.

If Huckabee attacked my honor I would have responded:

A person retains their honor by fulfilling their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. The war in Iraq was and is undeclared and unConstitutional. I voted against the Iraq War. I have done everything in my power to retain my honor. It is the American people's honorable duty to elected honorable representatives. Correcting, not perpetuating, a mistake is how one retains and restores their honor!

CurtisLow
09-05-2007, 11:07 PM
Yeah that's what I heard.. Like they don't know what the world thinks of us..The USA after invading and killing over 700.000 civilians and he wants to leave with honor. What a joke.

Kuldebar
09-05-2007, 11:10 PM
Honor means doing the right thing even if the right thing means admitting you were wrong.

Insanity means doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results each time.

ronpaulitician
09-05-2007, 11:13 PM
What bugged me was the suggestion that the ONLY way our troops can come home with honor is if they achieve whatever Washington's latest definition of "victory" is.

CJLauderdale4
09-05-2007, 11:14 PM
War on Terror = War for Honor

chandlerLBT
09-05-2007, 11:21 PM
apparently, huckabee's warped view of honor is worth the risk of human life; from both our soldiers, and the numerous innocent iraqi civilians who he wishes to show how "honorable" we can be. i think even the iraqi's would rather us shove our "honor" where it belongs, recognize it as a cough out, and let them finish their own civil war.

there is nothing honorable about a continued invasion. the honorable thing to do would be recognizing our mistake, and taking action to reverse it.

hard@work
09-06-2007, 02:17 AM
Honor is a beautiful thing, and it is much more than what it was labeled tonight.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
09-06-2007, 02:41 AM
"We have to keep fighting for honor"

translation:

"We screwed this up big time. To avoid the embarrassment of having to admit we where wrong, we need to lose the election to Hillary, let here inherit a failed war, and let here take all the blame for anything that results."

john_anderson_ii
09-06-2007, 02:52 AM
The USMC definition

Honor -- "Honesty or integrity in one's actions"

Integrity -- "Having the courage to do what is right when no one is around to see it."

katao
09-06-2007, 02:55 AM
What a slaughter of such an important principle. Sounds like another press conference is needed, this time with a Dictionary as a reading list.

katao
09-06-2007, 03:23 AM
I just read a nice response from John F. in a comment of Ron Paul vs. Huckabee article at http://www.charlotteconservative.com/index.php/2007/09/ron-paul-vs-huckabee/

Here is his comment:


I can't understand why the last line of defense in support of continued undeclared and unlawful war is honor.

I am very ashamed to admit that when this war started on 9/11 nearly EIGHT YEARS ago, I was gun hoe and ready to sign up in the military and go fight some A-RABS. My honor severely degraded on that day. Even though the sounds and images of 9/11 will be forever seared in to my head, my heart and soul tell me that the loss of honor I felt will never be regained.

Back then, I was 23 years old and a disgruntled lower middle class jerk who needed something, anything to strike out against. I didn’t join the military because I was cowardly, and most of all greedy. I knew I could break in to the upper middle lass in a few more years.

Today, I am 30 solidly upper middle class. I have learned some hard lessons in life. I continue to pursue my career as Technical Analysts for a major Bank. The biggest lesson I learned is that my actions and my words will stay with me forever.

I can never take back the time I spent in front of the TV cheering on the USA war machine 24/7’s rush to Baghdad. In a lot of ways I am still waiting for shock and awe. What I learned from this debate is the reason why it took me 7 years to figure out how sorry I was back then.

There is no honor in war. There is only life and death. As an American, I was born in to a free nation that celebrates Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. My right, as is the right of all humans, is what America stands for.

In this debate, the only candidate who stands up for my right is Ron Paul. Not because he wants to leave the Middle East. Ron Paul is the only man on the stage that flat understands people, individuals with rights, the same rights as I claim as an American citizen, are dying at the hands of a ruthless and out of control government that speaks of honoring our hero’s while simultaneous sending those hero’s to butcher and maim in the name of “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”

Sorry, there is no honor left, only more dead people.

john_anderson_ii
09-06-2007, 03:33 AM
There is no honor in war



Yes, there is. Defending your home, your family, your way of life, and your homestead is honorable. It's worth dying over......it's worth killing over. What we are doing now is NOT any of the above!

The current agenda of the neocons does not fall into any of these catergories. War is not "bad". The reason and philosophy behind going to war determines it's "goodness" or "badness".

That's my only complaint with the post.

Imagine the quote "There is no honor in war" in the context of the eastern seaboard being invaded by Nazi Germany in 1947. There would be plenty of honor in that sense. In Iraq? There is still honor in esprit de corps, fighting for the life of your brethren, and all manners of small unit ideals. However, the bigger picture is disgusting and revolting. There is no honor in the cause.

katao
09-06-2007, 03:48 AM
Yes, there is. Defending your home, your family, your way of life, and your homestead is honorable. It's worth dying over......it's worth killing over. What we are doing now is NOT any of the above!

The current agenda of the neocons does not fall into any of these catergories. War is not "bad". The reason and philosophy behind going to war determines it's "goodness" or "badness".

That's my only complaint with the post.

Imagine the quote "There is no honor in war" in the context of the eastern seaboard being invaded by Nazi Germany in 1947. There would be plenty of honor in that sense. In Iraq? There is still honor in esprit de corps, fighting for the life of your brethren, and all manners of small unit ideals. However, the bigger picture is disgusting and revolting. There is no honor in the cause.


Good points - I agree as long as the attribute of honor is bestowed on the individual fighting the just cause of life or liberty. Honor requires personal sacrifice. To a nation, however, even a just war is not honorable, merely necessary.

john_anderson_ii
09-06-2007, 04:19 AM
Honor requires personal sacrifice.

I'm sure barely anyone remembers the ridicule and humiliation Vietnam veterans came home to. I don't remember, I was told by my father and grandfather. The powers that be would love nothing more than to label Ron Paul and his supporters as people who spit on the troops for doing what they do. I think it's important that we as a team tackle this early on.

I'll do my best to open up on the subject. When I joined the military, I did it for several reasons. It was a, if not the, turning point in my life. Like my father and grandfather I found a home in the Marine Corps. My brother Marines are brothers, flesh and blood, all the way. We, as Ron Paul supporters, cannot marginalize the sacrifices we Marines endured for political reasons. Soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen don't really have all the political facts and arguments "on the ground". We fight hard for what we know, and what we know is each other. So every kill, every successful mission, is a success for us, in the field. No matter the political ramifications, we do what we do as warriors. The nation knows this, and they love us for it. The person who's perceived as undermining our efforts, or marginalizing our sacrifice is the black sheep, and will never be listened to. Ron Paul has the grandest intentions, but if he, for a second, is perceived as dismissing the sacrifices of the armed service, it will be a stain that is hard to get off.

Somehow, we have to find a way to denounce the useless war in Iraq without marginalizing the efforts of our armed services. Don't tell the nation we did no good! It may sit just fine with the military personnel that know whats going on, but the soccer moms and such will have a big issue if RP says we aren't accomplishing anything.

If I were to make a suggestion, it would be this:

RP should talk about military sacrifice. What we do on the behalf of our brothers in arms, and why we do it. Then he should expose why we were put in that position in the first place. If the word got out that American Marines were, in good faith, exercising their undying espirit de corps, to further the interests of lobbyists....it would be a bloodbath in Washington. Only true patriots would be safe from the wrath of the voters.

Corydoras
09-06-2007, 08:20 PM
Huckabee has sunk to the level of those people who kill their own daughters and sisters for the sake of family "honor."

justaguy
09-06-2007, 08:47 PM
I see:

A pack of lemmings jumping off a cliff with one standing up yelling "FOR HONOR!".

I see:

A man stomping on a broken picture of Iraq with another man asking "Is it fixed yet?"

I wish I could draw.
-Chris

quickmike
09-06-2007, 09:01 PM
Problem is many people confuse honor with stubborness, the same way they confuse patriotism with blind nationality.

If you spent 5 years looking for a guy that you though stole your wallet, and then found out for a fact that it wasnt him, would you say "well, I got into this thing and I cant back down now since im pretty close to finding the guy, I have my honor to think about"

stupid................... just plain stupid.

max
09-06-2007, 09:02 PM
Man, Ron Paul is sure a lot gentler than I would have been.

If Huckabee attacked my honor I would have responded:

A person retains their honor by fulfilling their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. The war in Iraq was and is undeclared and unConstitutional. I voted against the Iraq War. I have done everything in my power to retain my honor. It is the American people's honorable duty to elected honorable representatives. Correcting, not perpetuating, a mistake is how one retains and restores their honor!

Hucsterbee is confusing honor with PRIDE

NoxTwilight
09-06-2007, 09:05 PM
Honor means doing the right thing even if the right thing means admitting you were wrong.

Insanity means doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results each time.


I was screaming that at the TV :D

Cliff
09-06-2007, 09:15 PM
It is so nice to be on a board where people are truly awake and understand the difference between truth and lies.

Huck used the right words to come across patriotic but in all honesty showed he is nothing more than a liar and ignorant of real issues.

fj45lvr
09-06-2007, 10:19 PM
RP should talk about military sacrifice. What we do on the behalf of our brothers in arms, and why we do it. Then he should expose why we were put in that position in the first place. If the word got out that American Marines were, in good faith, exercising their undying espirit de corps, to further the interests of lobbyists....it would be a bloodbath in Washington. Only true patriots would be safe from the wrath of the voters.

I find it difficult to believe that most Americans don't actually at least suspect that "the reason" lies somewhere else than the storyline we were fed....

I believe the truth is much more sinister, but the average joe probably believes we were "forced" to take action due to the fear of WMD...and the guy was a bad dictator....and after he was smashed and captured we just have to stick around to make sure the poor people don't get invaded or kill themselves in a "power vaccuum".

What needs to be known IMHO is more details about the oil pipelines, the oil revenues, the contracts for the oil (probably info that can be found)...then there is the other stuff as to what kind of discourse was there with Israel and others in the neighborhood concerning the whole situation?? What intelligence did they have? .....I'm sure there are a whole lot of other story lines that are quite dubious concerning this.

It would have been so much easier for Saddam to just have taken up that offer to live in Dubai!! I really wonder what would have happened if that had happened??