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View Full Version : Growing Possibility of State or Regional Secession




kahless
10-01-2008, 09:07 PM
The current President, the two leading candidates and a majority in Congress do not represent the people, they violate the Constitution and the people are slaves to government via high taxes and corporatism.

Does anyone think with these bailouts being the final straw and an impending economic collapse will create an environment where regional or state succession may not only be a possibility but an increasingly likely neccessity for some areas?

notbornyesterday
10-01-2008, 09:10 PM
It's fiunny - we heard all this talk about Todd Palin being a member of the Alaska Independence Party (which supposedly advocted secession) - but not one ounce of debate about *why* Alaskans might *want* to secede!

I also recall that about a year ago, there was a movement in Vermont to secede.

-NBY

pappy
10-01-2008, 09:20 PM
but not one ounce of debate about *why* Alaskans might *want* to secede!

Debate on that would be moot. Alaska would never be allowed to secede. They gots the oil (and gold).

pappy

dr. hfn
10-01-2008, 09:55 PM
New Hampshire WILL secede!

The Free State Project will make it so! A haven for Liberty!

The Free Republic of New Hampshire!!!!

AgentOrange
10-01-2008, 09:59 PM
People are getting sucked in by the media hype. More people I talk with are supporting the corporate welfare bill, than supported it last week. Sadly, by the time Congress votes on it, the general populace will be convinced it really was necessary.

blancmange
10-02-2008, 02:15 AM
Debate on that would be moot. Alaska would never be allowed to secede. They gots the oil (and gold).

pappy

Russia could help.

kahless
10-02-2008, 06:44 AM
Lets face it with this bailout we will become even be more of a slave to government while we bail out those that do not deserve are hard earned dollars.

The only thing that will wake people up in this country where they will throw out these clowns is if people who want the right to self determination and from freedom taxation slavery demand their regions independence from it.

dirknb@hotmail.com
10-02-2008, 06:47 AM
Secession won't happen. Remember what happened the last time a block of states tried to secede. That was before the military was high-tech.

Alex Libman
10-02-2008, 06:52 AM
New Hampshire is the only state where this is realistic. Right to secession is written into its constitution, and it has a strong economy that doesn't depend on the Federal Government, which by far isn't the case for places like Wyoming or especially Alaska. Read more at FreeStateProject.org (http://www.FreeStateProject.org/)!

kahless
10-02-2008, 06:53 AM
Secession won't happen. Remember what happened the last time a block of states tried to secede. That was before the military was high-tech.

If a region had enough support from the people the media would be all over the government if there was even a hint of using force against them. Considering the MSM has become the 4th branch of government I have doubts force would be used.

But it all depends on which way the MSM spins it. If they begin calling these folks terrorists, rebels, white supremists, racists, forget about it. You would then be correct the MSM would have the people behind the use of force.

btw - New Hampshire still has property taxes. You will never be able to find freedom there even with the "free state project" movement.

RJB
10-02-2008, 06:58 AM
Debate on that would be moot. Alaska would never be allowed to secede. They gots the oil (and gold).

pappy

They would be the next Iraq war... W. will say were fighting radical Eskimo fascists.

Sandra
10-02-2008, 08:03 AM
Can someone show me where the Federal government granted a state a "right of secession"? You have to take it. Email the Montana SOS to see how it's done. The SoS website announced intentions of secession if the second amendment was defeated by the SCOTUS. It was ratified by the Governor.

tmosley
10-02-2008, 08:10 AM
For a state to secede successfully, all they need to do is seize control of the nuclear missile installations in their state, or if they are on the coast, commandeer a nuclear equipped sub or two.

The threat of a nuclear civil war is more than enough to stop even the most powerful government from stopping a secession movement. Once one state does it, others could defect, and claim protection by joining a confederation with the other states.

The Civil War came 100 years too early. If there were a new one, it would almost certainly succeed.

Andrew Ryan
10-02-2008, 08:14 AM
ehhh i wanna secede.

tmosley
10-02-2008, 08:52 AM
ehhh i wanna secede.

Get enough people together of like minds, make sure you have some nuclear chemists, preferably with experience on nuclear subs.

You can probably guess what the next step would be.

kahless
10-02-2008, 09:25 AM
From the last few posts I can already hear the neocons spin claiming the successionists are aligned with Al Qaeda. The country then falls in line behind the federal government and the live free or die movement is dead.

Michael Landon
10-02-2008, 11:43 AM
Start by taking down your American Flags and replacing them with your State Flag.

- ML

tggroo7
10-02-2008, 12:14 PM
man I wish this were feasible. The MSM makes it so much harder than any possibilities in the past. I guess we wouldn't know until we tried, right? But we would definitely need to plan thoroughly.

Sandra
10-02-2008, 12:22 PM
man I wish this were feasible. The MSM makes it so much harder than any possibilities in the past. I guess we wouldn't know until we tried, right? But we would definitely need to plan thoroughly.


Why on Earth would you want MSM involvement with secession? Shhhhhh. Let Americans read about it in the foreign papers.

WokeUpDazed
10-02-2008, 01:12 PM
Can you imagine the population boom of any state that was able to secede? I'd be there in a heartbeat.

kahless
10-02-2008, 01:46 PM
Can you imagine the population boom of any state that was able to secede? I'd be there in a heartbeat.

For me to move it would only be if the new republic would eliminate property taxes in favor of a national sales tax. Property taxation is slavery.

Pete
10-02-2008, 02:28 PM
If secession is going to be led by the likes of Todd Palin and the MSM, I'd have to think it was a trap.

shuffleproshaq
10-02-2008, 09:22 PM
I'd move there in one second if drugs were legal.

tmosley
10-02-2008, 10:05 PM
For me to move it would only be if the new republic would eliminate property taxes in favor of a national sales tax. Property taxation is slavery.

Not so much slavery as feudalism. The two concepts are similar, but quite distinct.

Mini-Me
10-02-2008, 10:25 PM
I'd move there in one second if drugs were legal.

At the very least, you certainly wouldn't have to worry about inner-city crime so much anymore.

cheapseats
10-03-2008, 08:31 AM
Not so much slavery as feudalism. The two concepts are similar, but quite distinct.

Exactly so.

It IS Feudal Economics.

Proctor
10-03-2008, 08:59 AM
I also recall that about a year ago, there was a movement in Vermont to secede.

Vermont has no population, unless you include trees.

Andrew-Austin
10-03-2008, 10:11 AM
Secession won't happen. Remember what happened the last time a block of states tried to secede. That was before the military was high-tech.

Thats not why it won't happen, its not because of the possibility of a civil war. I don't think a single American out there could even think of warring against one of our own states, just because they secede.

The problem is secession must be carried out by elected officials, and those elected officials don't want to receive a letter of anthrax courtesy of the NWO.

kahless
10-03-2008, 10:40 AM
Thats not why it won't happen, its not because of the possibility of a civil war. I don't think a single American out there could even think of warring against one of our own states, just because they secede.

The problem is secession must be carried out by elected officials, and those elected officials don't want to receive a letter of anthrax courtesy of the NWO.

I could see this happening where people within a region or state have their own elections outside the existing state government. The new government then claims their intention is to sede from the state itself and declare independence from it defining a specific region within the state.

I doubt the American people would go to war against one another to stop a state or region from seceding. But that all depends how the MSM spins it. If you have guys like Hannity fabricating that these people are terrorists and MSNBC fabricating that they are racists or some religious fundamentalists, then all bets are off. They would then be rallying violence and public opinion against those that want to live free from tyranny. The media is just way too powerful.

Not advocating anything but just saying how I think it would play out.

fedup100
10-03-2008, 10:54 AM
Secession can and might happen. The people need to rise up in each state and hit their state houses with this. Forget calling Congress and the Whore Senate. It is finished with these bastards.

The States are the government and the country. We must overwhelm these state houses and demand secession. These states, Montana, Wyoming, Oklahoma, New Hampshire and Alaska are real immediate possibilities.

You say it didn't work last time.....I say we need to find out. They have grim plans for you and your children so you have nothing to lose in trying.

cheapseats
10-03-2008, 12:20 PM
Thats not why it won't happen, its not because of the possibility of a civil war. I don't think a single American out there could even think of warring against one of our own states, just because they secede.

The problem is secession must be carried out by elected officials, and those elected officials don't want to receive a letter of anthrax courtesy of the NWO.

Neither do the Bad Guys want to feel threatened. And they don't.

That is why they run roughshod over an entire globe.

Then go home to the wife and kiddies...in a well-appointed house...behind state-of-the-art security...before changing expensive clothes to go to a trendy restaurant...where owners will obsequiously lead them to a preferred table...and servers who rely on tips to float their boat will indulge their every demand.

cheapseats
10-03-2008, 12:25 PM
Given the variety and virulence of a stubbornly unmelted melting pot, I wonder whether the possibility of secession is not better considered in terms of four quadrants...each having consequential seaboard frontage, each responsible for some border integrity.

KPatrick
10-03-2008, 03:01 PM
Regions are more feasible. Say, "The Appalachian Republic." It's a giant swath of area, with enough eco-diversity to support a hard-working population. They might need some of Mid-Ohio, corn and soybeans and all.

cheapseats
10-03-2008, 03:13 PM
Regions are more feasible. Say, "The Appalachian Republic." It's a giant swath of area, with enough eco-diversity to support a hard-working population. They might need some of Mid-Ohio, corn and soybeans and all.

Pretty easy to impose economic sanctions on a land-locked entity, as on an energy dependent entity.

KPatrick
10-03-2008, 03:28 PM
Washington DC requires WV energy. Plus we'd have access to the Mississippi as well as other thoroughfares because Appalachia is several States, from New Hampshire to Alabama.

fedup100
10-03-2008, 03:42 PM
man I wish this were feasible. The MSM makes it so much harder than any possibilities in the past. I guess we wouldn't know until we tried, right? But we would definitely need to plan thoroughly.

Chip in for nationwide full page ads warning the people to turn off msm or lose it all.

demolama
10-03-2008, 04:03 PM
A Constitutional History of Secession by Remington Graham (http://www.amazon.com/Constitutional-History-Secession-Remington-Graham/dp/1589800699/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223072152&sr=8-1)

Find a copy... read it...best explanation there is written about the constitutionality of secession

cheapseats
10-03-2008, 04:37 PM
Washington DC requires WV energy.

Sorry, I should have said said, 'just like it's easy to impose economic sanctions on an energy dependent entity, as we are experiencing.'



Plus we'd have access to the Mississippi as well as other thoroughfares because Appalachia is several States, from New Hampshire to Alabama.

I know it's a bigger swath than I realized before I started spending time in the Southeast last year. But it does not include the Gulf Coast of Alabama, correct? Mind, I am not a military strategist or an urban planner, but I see a port as vital to sovereignty.

JK/SEA
10-03-2008, 05:05 PM
Reading this thread is interesting, and has me thinking about calling the Dino Rossi campaign for governor in Washington State, and asking to see what Rossi would think of this idea for our State, just to see what i'm told or not told. A sort of trial balloon, and plant a small seed.

Any input on this before i 'maybe' call?

cheapseats
10-03-2008, 05:16 PM
Reading this thread is interesting, and has me thinking about calling the Dino Rossi campaign for governor in Washington State, and asking to see what Rossi would think of this idea for our State, just to see what i'm told or not told. A sort of trial balloon, and plant a small seed.

Any input on this before i 'maybe' call?

I would have thought that any consideration of secession of the Northwest would partner at least Washington and Oregon.

Recovery Zones...to go along with the Rescue Package. ;)

kahless
10-05-2008, 02:13 PM
Pretty easy to impose economic sanctions on a land-locked entity, as on an energy dependent entity.

That is unless you extend the area to encompass all of South Carolina and Alabama in this map.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/55/Appalachian_region_of_United_States.gif/250px-Appalachian_region_of_United_States.gif

OddballAZ
10-05-2008, 02:21 PM
I don't think this bailout will be the final straw to push a state to secession, but I'm pretty sure it's waking people up and pushing at least a few states closer to considering it. I'll move to the first state to secede as long as it's leaving so it can be more free. So if Commiefornia or The Peoples Republic of Massachusetts leave first I won't be moving there. But I have a feeling they both love the bailout. Commiefornia is even asking for it's own bailout now.

KPatrick
10-05-2008, 06:35 PM
The above image shows access to the Great Lakes, which has access to the Atlantic via the St. Laurence seaway. Problem solved.

kahless
10-05-2008, 08:49 PM
The above image shows access to the Great Lakes, which has access to the Atlantic via the St. Laurence seaway. Problem solved.

I added South Carolina and Alabama for redundancy. Particularly if the St. Laurence is blocked.

raiha
10-05-2008, 10:15 PM
There will be a civil war. I suspect the WBTS reenactors have been rehearsing for something along these lines. This time it'll be between the haves and have nots. Which will kinda make it hard to draw the secession lines. I just hope its not pure anarchy! Robert E Lee...come baaack!

Anti Federalist
10-05-2008, 11:21 PM
It is for these reasons that The Middlebury Institute hopes to foster a national movement in the United States that will:
* place secession on the national political agenda,
* encourage secessionist and separatist movements here and abroad,
* develop communication among such existing and future groups,
* create a body of scholarship to examine and promote the ideas of separatism,
* and work carefully and thoughtfully for the ultimate task, the peaceful dissolution of the American empire.

http://www.middleburyinstitute.org/

http://www.vermontrepublic.org/

We thus hereby request that the legislature of New Hampshire make the following resolution: That the State of New Hampshire is, and of right ought to be, a free and independent state; that she is absolved from all allegiance to the Federal Union, and that all political connection between us and the United States of America, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as a free and independent state, we have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do.

http://republicofnh.org/

raiha
10-06-2008, 02:17 AM
What a shame the Confederacy did not manage to secede.

Abraham Lincoln and his Hamiltonian tendencies to centralize banking and normalize the use of paper money under the guise of altruism helped to seal your fate. Adding the pall of hypocrisy to his rather over-developed faculti es of avarice and ambition.
I saw that shrine to him in DC when i was there. Unbelievable! Still i guess it's the done thing to deify monsters of iniquity. Westminster Abbey is bulging at the seams with serial murderers, looters, rapists and despots.

satchelmcqueen
10-06-2008, 10:04 AM
People are getting sucked in by the media hype. More people I talk with are supporting the corporate welfare bill, than supported it last week. Sadly, by the time Congress votes on it, the general populace will be convinced it really was necessary.

ive noticed this too.

cheapseats
10-06-2008, 12:39 PM
The above image shows access to the Great Lakes, which has access to the Atlantic via the St. Laurence seaway. Problem solved.

Not really.

It's the same problem, not having command of a port. If I control the port through which your imports and exports must pass...if everything you mean to send out into the world to make money and everything you buy from the world because you need it must clear me...and I don't like you, you're screwed.

There are ways around it, of course, but the more complicated and hazardous your extra-regional commerce, the bigger the drain on your economy. This photo doesn't really show the extremity of the exposure, but this hypothesis presupposes a lot of friendly territory between lakeside and Quebec, then between Quebec and the Atlantic which, framed in terms of secession, is probably not realistic.

Even if everyone loves you today, people are so...fickle. And so mercenary. If there is vulnerability, an enemy or even just a competitor will expose it. Survival of the Fittest, eh?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s221/litwit/StLawrence.jpg

cheapseats
10-06-2008, 01:02 PM
That is unless you extend the area to encompass all of South Carolina and Alabama in this map.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/55/Appalachian_region_of_United_States.gif/250px-Appalachian_region_of_United_States.gif

Yep.

Charleston, Mobile Bay, the Inter Coastal Waterway.

You'd not regret having Savannah, I expect. I was told by a tour guide that the streets of downtown Charleston flood on even one day's hard steady rain, though I don't actually know whether there's a correlation between the elevation of a town and the depth of its port. There ARE common sensibilities though, are there not, between Georgia and the Appalachian region?

Conservationist
10-07-2008, 12:04 PM
Secessionists can leave peacefully if enough of the country wants to go, in different ways.

The Civil War was easy because there were two parties.

If the USA splits into The Union, Texas, NH, Vermont and Jefferson State, they're looking at a real guerrilla war in multiple areas and may rethink.

Smart secessionists should work to convince the Union it wants to transition into an EU-style confederacy.

cheapseats
10-07-2008, 05:16 PM
What a shame the Confederacy did not manage to secede.


I would like to think, particularly with the slide of the Middle Class toward serfdom, we're wide-screen that slavery is not okay.

cheapseats
10-07-2008, 05:20 PM
There will be a civil war.

We are so accustomed to acrimonious divorces and hostile takeovers...that would be because the cost of breaking up is a positive function of acrimony...we can hardly conceive of an amicable parting of ways. It DOES happen.

Civil war is, holy shit, an oxymoron.

cheapseats
10-07-2008, 05:35 PM
Secessionists can leave peacefully if enough of the country wants to go, in different ways.

The Civil War was easy because there were two parties.

If the USA splits into The Union, Texas, NH, Vermont and Jefferson State, they're looking at a real guerrilla war in multiple areas and may rethink.

Smart secessionists should work to convince the Union it wants to transition into an EU-style confederacy.

I think that neither stronger states/smaller federal government nor regional coalescence/smaller and less authoritative government are incongruous with a STRONGER and more definitive umbrella bond.

It is all fine and well for the rugged individualist to "go it alone" and "protect his own" but, as a practical matter, that's a little like Harrison Ford in the alley in the first Indiana Jones movie...the interloper demonstrates all manner of hand-to-hand skill, whereupon Harrison Ford simply shoots him. Rugged individualists see themselves on the delivering end of that bullet, and they would be initially. But for how long? They are clear headed and brave hearted, and you gotta love 'em for that...they're the ones whose fox holes you wanna be near if push ever comes to shove...but once they're down, they're down.

A man who earned a number of medals for his service in Korea, including a Purple Heart, has only recently begun talking about his experience in the trenches. Not to imply he's been drooling in a rocking chair these many decades, only that he never talked about it. He seldom talked at all. Temper, though? Oh my.

Anyway, he said that the North Koreans/Chinese came in waves...wave after wave after wave of humanity. No matter how many of them the soldiers mowed down, another wave came.

One point three BILLION Chinese, one point eight BILLION Muslims, however many of whoever else PLUS increasing tensions with South America...all that aside from our age-old Contest with Russia...suggests that America will want MORE, not less, Solidarity.

Solidarity and Centralization are not the same thing.

On the contrary. Centralized control of unlike people, places and things can only breed inefficiency and ill will.

bojo68
10-07-2008, 08:42 PM
Actually, I asked ex Judge Andrew Napolitano this question in an email a few minutes ago. I'm hoping he will shed some light on a peaceful and legal option. If I get a response, I'll let ya know.