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View Full Version : Bureaucracy? Need judge for who is right.




strapko
10-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Hey guys, me and my friend are arguing over bureaucracies; so questions go as following:

1) Is there a such a thing as private Bureaucracy?

2) Are bureaucracies needed for large societies?

Friend said yes on both. I said no on both.

forsmant
10-01-2008, 05:55 PM
There most certainly are private bureacracies. The board of directors and the management of some firms are bureacratic. While those companies can be called "publlic" they are not government. Small companies can also have bureacratic set ups.

strapko
10-01-2008, 05:58 PM
There most certainly are private bureacracies. The board of directors and the management of some firms are bureacratic. While those companies can be called "publlic" they are not government. Small companies can also have bureacratic set ups.

So do they have bureaucratic qualities? Or are they bureaucracies, because in the dictionary it says: A system of government in which most of the important decisions are made by state officials rather then elected representatives.

strapko
10-01-2008, 06:16 PM
Bump.

strapko
10-01-2008, 06:28 PM
bump.

forsmant
10-01-2008, 06:30 PM
Well they govern the way the company is run and are not elected by popuular vote.

strapko
10-01-2008, 06:41 PM
Well they govern the way the company is run and are not elected by popuular vote.

But they do not govern the other companies. Bureaucracies make regulations for everyone. I.e the t.v and radio, every station has to follow there regulations.

Need more responses!

strapko
10-01-2008, 06:48 PM
bump

strapko
10-01-2008, 07:08 PM
bump

specsaregood
10-01-2008, 07:14 PM
So do they have bureaucratic qualities? Or are they bureaucracies, because in the dictionary it says: A system of government in which most of the important decisions are made by state officials rather then elected representatives.

It that is the only definition you are accepting then NO.
But: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bureaucracy
bu·reauc·ra·cy /byʊˈrɒkrəsi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[byoo-rok-ruh-see] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -cies. 1. government by many bureaus, administrators, and petty officials.
2. the body of officials and administrators, esp. of a government or government department.
3. excessive multiplication of, and concentration of power in, administrative bureaus or administrators.
4. administration characterized by excessive red tape and routine.


If you go some of the other definitions, then YES. I think anybody that has ever worked in corporate america would answer YES, but not by the limited definition you provided.

specsaregood
10-01-2008, 07:17 PM
//

micahnelson
10-01-2008, 07:20 PM
1) Is there a such a thing as private Bureaucracy?

Yes. Middle Management, etc. Every organization has some level of Bureaucracy.

2) Are bureaucracies needed for large societies?

Only if people need to be told what to do in a very inefficient way. There must be large organizations for a large group of people to have collective progress, but they should be voluntary.

For instance:
Obviously an innovative space program would be nice to have, it couldn't be done by an individual- so you need to form an organization to do it. People with similar interests would pool time and resources to create it. This leads the organization to a better hope of success as everyone involved is a dedicated volunteer- not a government flunky looking to pad his pockets, etc.

strapko
10-01-2008, 07:36 PM
Where are the Mises people when you need them!

strapko
10-01-2008, 08:06 PM
bump

silverhandorder
10-02-2008, 05:52 AM
Strapko it seems painfully obvious that I was right about the first part of your question. Mises or not you need to learn the language and arguments you choose to use. Not to mention how you abandoned your original argument anyways by the time we came down to these 2 disagreements.

edit: apparently it is Strapko's teacher that is telling him that bureaucracies can only be in government. I am pretty sure that is wrong, can you provide your class materials as proof?

strapko
10-02-2008, 10:01 AM
Bureaucracies are governmental agencies, they make regulations for all companies an example: FDA, Department of energy, board of education. Where is Conza or Kaju when you need them.

And my original argument was that we DO NOT need bureaucracies in large societies, so I don't know what your talking about silver...

silverhandorder
10-02-2008, 11:06 AM
Bureaucracies are governmental agencies, they make regulations for all companies an example: FDA, Department of energy, board of education. Where is Conza or Kaju when you need them.

And my original argument was that we DO NOT need bureaucracies in large societies, so I don't know what your talking about silver...

Again that is not the only definition of the word.

strapko
10-02-2008, 01:02 PM
ok, give me a link of a private bureaucracy company.

silverhandorder
10-02-2008, 01:57 PM
It was provided in the definition earlier from dictionary.com

strapko
10-02-2008, 02:03 PM
It was provided in the definition earlier from dictionary.com

No please, Link me a private enterprise such as the bureau of fox news or cnn lol. Point stands link me a private bureaucracy and you win, just one company.

silverhandorder
10-02-2008, 02:41 PM
Oh wow any administrative body in a corporation or a company is a bereau. Upper management is a bereau. Look I get it you discovered mises and you must go after those evil keynesians, in your head. There is nothing that backs up what you are saying, the burden of proof is on you.

Prove to me that word "bureaucracy" is exclusive to government administration.