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View Full Version : Did the debate tonight hurt or help Ron Paul?




paulitics
09-05-2007, 10:24 PM
Honestly. What do you think the outcome will be?

noxagol
09-05-2007, 10:24 PM
Good. He got attacked again, just like with Guiliani, except this time he got to the REAL reason we are still there, saving face.

JoshLowry
09-05-2007, 10:25 PM
I think it was awesome!

Mr. White
09-05-2007, 10:25 PM
Anytime the man gets press it helps him. Huckabee, in my opinion, made a huge mistake saying that republicans are in favor of saving their honor over winning an election. That actually pissed me off, the rest just annoyed me.

njandrewg
09-05-2007, 10:25 PM
any mainstream exposure helps. People always call him a failure right after the debate, but then the support/money starts pouring in and they shut up

catwoman
09-05-2007, 10:26 PM
I think he did a great job. He was on fire and passionate and truthful. If the voters are really honest with themselves, they'll realize they have only 1 choice and we all know who that is.

brumans
09-05-2007, 10:27 PM
i don't see how anyone could see how this could hurt ron paul. he got TONS of exposure, his name was brought up constantly. he answered the questions very well with passion and got his ideas out.

max
09-05-2007, 10:28 PM
Anytime the man gets press it helps him. Huckabee, in my opinion, made a huge mistake saying that republicans are in favor of saving their honor over winning an election. That actually pissed me off, the rest just annoyed me.

Huckabee's "honor".....our blood and our money

Hucksterbee is more like it

born2drv
09-05-2007, 10:28 PM
He sure took a beating today, but I think he held his ground very well.

I honestly think it's just going to crack open the divide.... I think it will strengthen him with people who oppose the war.... and those in favor of the war will distance themselves from him more.

But we don't care about the second group of people and those people never really supported RP in the first place... so overall I think RP's performace today helps a lot. You have to remember, there are still a lot of republicans out there that still have no idea he is against the war. A lot of independants and democrats for that matter as well. And I think his speeches are going to get lots of play time on the media and I think those who don't favor the war will give him another look.

Paulitician
09-05-2007, 10:29 PM
It was much better than the ABC debate, all things considered, that's for sure.

Phil M
09-05-2007, 10:30 PM
This is the only debate that I can honestly say he won. He was fiery, passionate, on the offense, and got much more time than Fox wanted to allot him. Yeah, the OM keeps on spinning the Huckabee thing as a loss, but anyone who saw it who isn't a GOP hack knows Paul won.

remaxjon
09-05-2007, 10:30 PM
I voted that it hurt Paul. The constant laughing at him by Rudy and the last question talking about getting rid of the FBI really hurt. I wanted to jump at the TV and punch someone.

The Huck exchange was great but that last question really killed it for me

10thAmendmentMan
09-05-2007, 10:31 PM
How could any of that debate performance possibly hurt him? The only thing that might offend some are his clear-cut plans to cut spending.

Phil M
09-05-2007, 10:31 PM
Also, anyone notice how everyone always said "with the exception of Ron Paul" in the post debate discussion?

SWATH
09-05-2007, 10:32 PM
Well Ron Paul is now the recipient of extremely viscous attacks on other forums for claiming that Iran is not killing US soldiers and that if they were they would be justified in doing so. The spin is in warp drive now.

BuddyRey
09-05-2007, 10:33 PM
Tonight's debate was like the first FOX debate times a thousand as far as publicity goes. I've been all over news sites, including the New York Times, and they're all talking about Paul and Huck's "heated exchange."

Ninja Homer
09-05-2007, 10:42 PM
Ron Paul did awesome tonight! He's getting better and better at debates.

Although, I must admit, Huckabee is a master-debater. I say that tongue-in-cheek, but seriously, he's a very good speaker even if he sucks on the issues.

Does anybody else realize what an absolutely awesome night this was for the Ron Paul campaign?!?

He did great in the debate.
Fred Thompson entered, further splitting the pro-war vote.
McCain appears to be making a pro-war vote comeback, probably taking votes away from Giuliani.
Huckabee made a nice showing for the pro-war vote.
Ron Paul completely owned the text message poll.
There will be as much air time for this Paul/Huckabee battle as there was for the Paul/Giuliani battle.

The pro-war vote will now be split between Giuliani, Thompson, Romney, McCain, and Huckabee. Forget about Brownback, Hunter, and Tancredo; even if they last, they won't make much of a showing when it matters and if they do it just furthers Ron Paul because it splits the pro-war vote even more.
I believe the results of the text message poll are pretty close to how the primaries will end up. Especially if we continue to work harder and harder!

manuel
09-05-2007, 10:44 PM
I think it clearly helped. The way I see it, this election will go down as either for the war or against it. There are plenty of people that are against this war. Getting the message out there and getting people to realize that there is an anti-war Republican can only help.

Besides, he'll get tons of press with the Huckabee exchange. It really doesn't matter who won or lost that exchange. What that exchange did was put everything into perspective. Do we stay in Iraq and "finish the job" or do we realize that there is no "job to finish"? This whole idea that we have to "leave with honor" is nonsense. What does "leaving with honor" even mean?

The reality is that Iraq is causing us way more harm than good and I'm seeing plenty of people that are awakening to that fact.

Matt Collins
09-05-2007, 10:44 PM
Also, anyone notice how everyone always said "with the exception of Ron Paul" in the post debate discussion?Yes - I think that was good publicity because it keeps setting him apart from all of the other clowns on stage

UCFGavin
09-05-2007, 10:46 PM
definitely helped. he came out and was fired up.

Daveforliberty
09-05-2007, 10:47 PM
No one in America (except hard core Paulites and political addicts) watched the debate. Americans will get information on this debate from the press. So far the reporting on Ron Paul is generally positive, pointing out that he is different from the others. The written reports of what transpired read pretty well. This is what America will see, and it will help RP.

texasbelle
09-05-2007, 10:48 PM
I totally think it helped him. Sure the neo-cons wont change their minds but we obviously won the debate. I was very disappointed in Mike Huckabee saying that Honor is important. Tell that to the parents whose son is serving in IRAQ now. That honor is more important than our American soldiers. How dare the hannitized sheeple call us UNPATRIOTIC!!! :mad: :mad:

singapore_sling
09-05-2007, 10:49 PM
Im gonna have to say it helped him because the way Hannity and friends intensified their attacks just shows that even they are realizing we are a major threat.

quickmike
09-05-2007, 10:49 PM
Best debate by Ron HANDS DOWN!!!! Im not bullshitting either. He stood up for himself better, spoke clearly, and didnt take any shit from Hannity, and did it with a smile on his face and a coolness that actually made me laugh.

If Huckabee thinks preserving honor is more important than winning the presidency, thats fine, and actually thats true................ but he represents neither republicans winning or honor.......... id say that makes him 0 for 2 on both counts

Ron is about honor AND winning the presidency.

edit - Oh, and forums.com needs to get rid of the seagate hard drive............ seriously. LOL :D

noxagol
09-05-2007, 10:49 PM
Too all the calls of being unpatriotic, I remind them of a great man who once said "Dissent is the greatest form of loyalty" and that this man trumps anyone today. When they ask who that is, I let them know, Benjamin Franklin.

Ron Paul Fan
09-05-2007, 10:50 PM
Helped a great deal. Huckabee vs. Paul will be replayed from this debate and it was the first real confrontation/debate between two candidates. Dr. Paul did a very good job standing up for what he beleives in while Huckabee tried to argue that we should all be united. I wish Dr. Paul would have mentioned something about not just following blindly and disenting when there is bad policy taking place being what is patriotic. But I loved his line about why should we believe what the pro war advocates are saying when they've been wrong all along? Great line and great debate performance.

texasbelle
09-05-2007, 10:51 PM
I wish Paul would have mentioned that he has the most contributions from Military donors!!

Cowlesy
09-05-2007, 10:52 PM
It's inevitable that if we all keep up the good fight Ron Paul will indeed by the next President of the United States.

Mister Grieves
09-05-2007, 10:53 PM
Ron Paul went supernova tonight.

This will help things immensely.

noxagol
09-05-2007, 10:54 PM
Yeah, Ron was on freaking fire. Someone lit a fire up his ass or something tonight. I was greatly impressed and inspired by his performance.

themanhere
09-05-2007, 10:54 PM
I voted that it hurt Paul. The constant laughing at him by Rudy and the last question talking about getting rid of the FBI really hurt. I wanted to jump at the TV and punch someone.

The Huck exchange was great but that last question really killed it for me


I agree i felt the same way. BUT I THINK IT DID AS MUCH GOOD! I knew right from the start what was going on. I swear i knew Fox news would set it up so mccain or rudy would get the most time to talk and be praised. Then slam Ron with some bias questions.


What kind of debate moderator attacks the speaker???? I wish Ron Paul would've put that chris wallace in his place.

But i think he did clear the air and we might of picked up some more democrats!

Dary
09-05-2007, 10:54 PM
Ron Paul Rocks.

devil21
09-05-2007, 10:56 PM
Ron is all over the media right now. This debate HELPED! I was discouraged at first but everyone is talking about RP and Huckabee going at it and that is NEVER a bad thing.

EDIT: the fire came from Fox snubbing Ron early on. You could see he was getting more and more pissed when the other guys would spout Ron's views as their own, knowing Fox would try to minimalize Ron's time. So Ron took the bull by the horns.

MsDoodahs
09-05-2007, 10:56 PM
I loved his line about why should we believe what the pro war advocates are saying when they've been wrong all along? Great line and great debate performance.

Agree - loved when he said that!

paulitics
09-05-2007, 10:56 PM
Ok, I hate to say this but I like the Ron Paul of the first couple of debates where he was more composed. Im glad Im in the minority here, but I'm concerned about the passive viewers who are just now tuning into this primary. Gravel did not resonate for too long with the voters because he was too angry and seemed unstable, even though he had more integrity than all of them put together, and had a better message.

I also think the question on eliminating the CIA and FBI with background chuckles hurt him too.

themanhere
09-05-2007, 10:59 PM
Ok, I hate to say this but I like the Ron Paul of the first couple of debates where he was more composed. Im glad Im in the minority here, but I'm concerned about the passive viewers who are just now tuning into this primary. Gravel did not resonate for too long with the voters because he was too angry and seemed unstable, even though he had more integrity than all of them put together, and had a better message.

I also think the question on eliminating the CIA and FBI with background chuckles hurt him too.


The chuckles came from Rudy the orange man that used too much spray tan.

1000-points-of-fright
09-05-2007, 11:01 PM
Here's my take.

1) RP certainly did not come out on top.
2) He did stand his ground very well given that most of his questions were loaded to make him look bad to "mainstream Republicans" from the get go. Eliminating the FBI and CIA, Chris Wallace's cheap shot about taking our marching orders from Al-Qaeda, etc.
3) It was exposure, not good or bad, just exposure. As long as it gets more people to research, who cares if it's cuz they wanna see what this whack job is all about.

I think Huckabee did really well. Maybe he even won if there are ever any winners in these thing. McCain's performance was a surprise. Definitely his best so far.

As for Paul winning the text and online polls, we need to change the spin on this. We can't convince them that the polls reflect his true popularity. Hell, I don't even believe most of them. But what they really reveal that nobody is excited enough about the other candidates to vote in every online poll they can find.

I hope some disgruntled Fox employee can leak B-roll footage of Rudy laughing every time they asked Ron Paul a question. That really pissed me off.

SteveB-NY
09-05-2007, 11:02 PM
Overall it helped however I wish when Huckabee was speaking of honor Ron had not spoken about the GOP losing elections.
And he handled Chris Wallace perfectly. Angry but composed and I loved we get our marching orders from the Constitution.
Rudy's smirk will come back to haunt him.

Dan Coble
09-05-2007, 11:02 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I love this guy! He made the most RATIONAL and PASSIONATE arguments in the entire debate, the other Candidates were all posing and trying to give that Miss South Carolina-type answer....They were all so transparent and superficial, and call me biased, but Ron is the most HONEST and RATIONAL man on that stage.

Hannity and Colmes can kiss my large human backside, especially Hannity, but can we really blame them for their ignorance? They have been fully indoctrinated and just don't KNOW any better, but Ron held his own, I have tremendous respect for this man, doing what I myself attempted to do in 2000. I pray to God, Buddha, Santa, the Easter Bunny and WHOMEVER ELSE I need to pray to, that Ron becomes our next President, and that he is able to accomplish a FRACTION of what he seeks to do.

He has stood up for we Veterans for a long time, He's a great American, one of the few left.

ghemminger
09-05-2007, 11:03 PM
Supernova was used - i aggree - HE BLEW UP your website...lol

mport1
09-05-2007, 11:03 PM
There is no way this will hurt RP. He did an incredible job and will now be back in the national spotlight for a little while.

ghemminger
09-05-2007, 11:04 PM
How many people were viewing whn the site blew up???

MsDoodahs
09-05-2007, 11:04 PM
I wonder how hard core GOPers feel about Ron's bold statement re: their party is shrinking fast, that they're losing membership in a huge way because of their embrace of neocon foreign policy?

jjschless
09-05-2007, 11:05 PM
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
-- Mahatma Gandhi



This “Debate” was full of all three of those actions for Dr. Ron Paul. The incessant snickering, the pointed questions, the scripted retort from the “moderators” all indications that the GOP really feels threatened by Dr. Paul, and with good reason I might add.



I am amused how the other candidates sound more and more like Dr. Paul on many of the divisive issues. From Romney and Giuliani and their now Federalist stances on issues like abortion and gun laws to Huckabee and his multitude of talking points regarding the Constitution; also the fact that the other Candidates have started mentioning a President going to Congress instead of simply taking action.



Have any of the other candidates managed to change the rhetoric as Dr. Paul has? I think not.



Truly Dr. Paul is in a league of his own and the others are playing catch up. They can ridicule and attack all they want but slander can never make up for their blatant shortcomings.



Make no mistake this was a contrived assault on Dr. Paul and it was so starkly obvious that I have no recourse but to laugh and cheer. Had they simply marginalized him and ignored him I would have had reason to worry. The harder they try to smear and slander the good Doctor the more of an impact the rEVOLution is having.



We must expect the beast to fight back. The Establishment and status quo have so much to lose that they would be fools not to object and proceed as they have. We must expect it to get worse. I image the next Fox sponsored debate to be shameful and as uncivil as a school yard brawl. I suspect a great many hit pieces will be written and propagated by weeks end. All of this will give us the greatest boost to the campaign to date. More and more people will learn Dr. Ron Paul’s name and that is the only real challenge we as a campaign have, name recognition. Once a person takes a look at Dr. Paul any real damage a libel could have done will be rendered moot.



In the end I had a certain expectation of deplorable programming from Fox News and I can say with absolute certainty that I was not disappointed.

ghemminger
09-05-2007, 11:06 PM
I wonder how hard core GOPers feel about Ron's bold statement re: their party is shrinking fast, that they're losing membership in a huge way because of their embrace of neocon foreign policy?

He just stated the painfully obvious!

ape
09-05-2007, 11:07 PM
The chuckles came from Rudy the orange man that used too much spray tan.

lol, I just noticed that. HAHAH classic. I think RP had an awesome night, he makes those fox news people look like fools. No wonder they hate him so much.

wgadget
09-05-2007, 11:08 PM
I'll be listening to Bill Bennett and Hannity tomorrow to see if they even mention the name of our next president....RON PAUL.

hambone1982
09-05-2007, 11:10 PM
SOLID performance.

quickmike
09-05-2007, 11:12 PM
Next years Fox lineup...................


Brit Hume - shift manager

Chris Wallace - french fry cooker/drive thru

Sean Hannity - "cheese guy" .......... thats about all he can handle(just put the cheese on the burger sean, yeah thats good............. no, just one sean........ there ya go)

DJ RP
09-05-2007, 11:13 PM
Best debate by Ron HANDS DOWN!!!! Im not bullshitting either. He stood up for himself better, spoke clearly, and didnt take any shit from Hannity, and did it with a smile on his face and a coolness that actually made me laugh.


Hahahah. I watched that hannity exchange with a permanent grin on my face. Ron just served him so bad!

ape
09-05-2007, 11:14 PM
Next years Fox lineup...................


Brit Hume - shift manager

Chris Wallace - french fry cooker/drive thru

Sean Hannity - "cheese guy" .......... thats about all he can handle(just put the cheese on the burger sean, yeah thats good............. no, just one sean........ there ya go)

heh, I always figured hannity to be the guy who cleans the toilets and takes out the garbage.

quickmike
09-05-2007, 11:16 PM
heh, I always figured hannity to be the guy who cleans the toilets and takes out the garbage.

I think thats gonna be Colmes, since he doesnt really get along with the other guys. Best to have them working in a seperate part of the Mc D's Avoid conflicts and all.

jonahtrainer
09-05-2007, 11:18 PM
I wonder how hard core GOPers feel about Ron's bold statement re: their party is shrinking fast, that they're losing membership in a huge way because of their embrace of neocon foreign policy?

I had lunch with a local Republican Executive Committee of about 25 people. Mostly all the movers and shakers, the Tax Collector, Sheriff, County Commissioner, several former state representatives and senators, etc. were all present.

None of them had a primary candidate picked out. All mourned the lack of grassroots support and dissipating of the party. They asked us who we support and I said Ron Paul. Very few had even heard of him. We passed out lots of slim-jims. Most were old-style Reagan/Goldwater Republicans. It will be fun having lunch with them again next month. A couple are going to come to our Meetup Group.

I think Ron Paul pulled a brilliant military tactic; divide and conquer. He is dividing the Republican party and conquering the non-neocons that are pissed with Bush. That includes almost the entire party; just very few say it because they do not want to 'run away from the President.' There is a lot of discontent within the party because of Bush and they feel royally screwed.

Anyway, Ron Paul rang the Liberty Bell tonight! Based on responses and such it looks like about 40% more people watched this debate than the May 15. With all the slim-jims I gave out today they were probably watching for him specifically.

I can't stress how important it is to just get out and attend your local meetings. These people are starving for Ron Paul and the media is blacking him out.

wolv275
09-05-2007, 11:18 PM
You could see it in old Hucks face when he was starring into the eyes of Ron Paul and thinking (you are going down old man). but When Ron started to show him how the rule of law was raped and the honor of our young men and women is only being debated to safe face, he quickly saw the error of his tactics. He saw the Chuck Norris round house coming and could not do anything but get kicked in the face. :D

Gee
09-05-2007, 11:19 PM
Overall I think it helped, but Fox's lies hurt him quite a bit. Get rid of the CIA and FBI? Paul has never campaigned on those things.

austinphish
09-05-2007, 11:20 PM
OMG - i am watching the replay in Hawaii - that laughing at Paul is total BS ... WTF?????????????????

Ninja Homer
09-05-2007, 11:21 PM
Overall it helped however I wish when Huckabee was speaking of honor Ron had not spoken about the GOP losing elections.
And he handled Chris Wallace perfectly. Angry but composed and I loved we get our marching orders from the Constitution.
Rudy's smirk will come back to haunt him.


I don't know about you guys, but I love this guy! He made the most RATIONAL and PASSIONATE arguments in the entire debate, the other Candidates were all posing and trying to give that Miss South Carolina-type answer....They were all so transparent and superficial, and call me biased, but Ron is the most HONEST and RATIONAL man on that stage.

Hannity and Colmes can kiss my large human backside, especially Hannity, but can we really blame them for their ignorance? They have been fully indoctrinated and just don't KNOW any better, but Ron held his own, I have tremendous respect for this man, doing what I myself attempted to do in 2000. I pray to God, Buddha, Santa, the Easter Bunny and WHOMEVER ELSE I need to pray to, that Ron becomes our next President, and that he is able to accomplish a FRACTION of what he seeks to do.

He has stood up for we Veterans for a long time, He's a great American, one of the few left.

Great first posts! I agree on both.

Thank you, and welcome to Ron Paul Forums!

quickmike
09-05-2007, 11:21 PM
You could see it in old Hucks face when he was starring into the eyes of Ron Paul and thinking (you are going down old man). but When Ron started to show him how the rule of law was raped and the honor of our young men and women is only being debated to safe face, he quickly saw the error of his tactics. He saw the Chuck Norris round house coming and could not do anything but get kicked in the face. :D

Ron Paul uses Monkey Style.............. hard to know whats gonna happen next with that.

SWATH
09-05-2007, 11:22 PM
Are you kidding? This will totally over shadow the Fred Thompson news tomorrow! Remember how flooded the news got with the "Giuliani slaps down Ron Paul" stories. This will take alot of attention away from Drama queen Fred.

Imagine all the youtube videos of Dr. NO actually yelling "NO!" at Chris Wallace.

quickmike
09-05-2007, 11:26 PM
Sure, you can say "gee I wish Ron would have said this........... or done that...... but think about the kind of crap he had piling on top of him. Candidates, moderators, time allowed. Under the circumstances I thought he was sharp, aggressive but not over aggresive. I couldnt have asked for more. Well, I could ask, but why look a gift horse in the mouth?

It would be very difficult to keep your cool under that kind of pressure, but he did it, and I dont have any complaints.

Shatterhand
09-05-2007, 11:36 PM
Maybe I have been a supporter for too long and have lost objectivity, but I thought RP rocked the debate. He showed that he has a different message than all the others regarding the war.

I think if republicans look him up to learn more they will get hooked.

I thought he could have answered Vanity's questions better, but that was not the debate.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

born2drv
09-05-2007, 11:43 PM
Ok, I hate to say this but I like the Ron Paul of the first couple of debates where he was more composed. Im glad Im in the minority here, but I'm concerned about the passive viewers who are just now tuning into this primary. Gravel did not resonate for too long with the voters because he was too angry and seemed unstable, even though he had more integrity than all of them put together, and had a better message.

I also think the question on eliminating the CIA and FBI with background chuckles hurt him too.

I agree with you on both counts.... the CIA/FBI thing with Rudy the ass in the background was very rude and uncalled for. I think if RP had the chance to explain his reason why he wants to abolish them things would have went much better. Then again these are all issues that if people try and put hit pieces on him, he can give a much better explanation.

As far as being angry by Gravel, Gravel is always angry even in the most civil of debates.... Ron Paul was attacked and fought back, and I think people who watched would understand that.

Ron Paul Fan
09-05-2007, 11:52 PM
Exactly. Gravel and Paul both question their parties actions and basically stand alone in doing so on the stage. The big difference between them that is displayed tonight is that Gravel is basically ignored by the other candidates. When he calls them out, they quickly shoot him down and don't really debate him 1 on 1 or attack his polices. What we saw tonight was a full out onlslaught on Dr. Paul from Huckabee, Giuliani/Romney laughing, and the moderators. Now why would they do this if he wasn't a threat? They couldn't be scared of him could they?

Lady Liberty
09-05-2007, 11:54 PM
Everyone thinks their candidate wins. If what that person says resonates with you, then he "wins" in your eyes. That said, I think Paul is brilliant at turning lemons into lemonades. A normal person like myself gets pissed at the ridiculous questions, unequal airtime, and unprofessional snickering. But not our boy Ron. He manages to keep his wits about him and fire back with some very memorable and telling responses.

Tonight I think he came off more strong and passionate than I have ever seen him. Sometimes he is so gentlemanly that he can get walked over a bit. Tonight it seemed like he was mad as hell...and once he got his due turn...he wasn't gonna take it anymore!!

im_a_pepper
09-05-2007, 11:59 PM
Any press is good press, and Ron Paul is getting that name recognition we all know he needs (10%). As for Huckabee, I am sure it did him good but I hated hearing the same quips I heard in earlier debates and interviews. I also learned that it does not matter the cost of other lives, so long as you keep what you consider honor as that is much more important. The way I see it, we don't lose supporters, we take em away, and if this caused those few hundred/thousand people to google Ron Paul and stumble across his stances. KICKASS.

leipo
09-06-2007, 12:04 AM
i don't see how anyone could see how this could hurt ron paul. he got TONS of exposure, his name was brought up constantly. he answered the questions very well with passion and got his ideas out.

Exactly! None of the other candidates showed any passion. They all had staged speeches with crappy one-liners. I think a lot of people will see through this.

Spirit of '76
09-06-2007, 12:10 AM
My mom, a lifelong democrat, watched the debate, and she emailed to ask me, "Is it too late to change my registration to vote for Ron Paul? Just don't tell your grandfather."

:D

cjhowe
09-06-2007, 12:12 AM
I don't think this debate could have gone better in the overall field. Breathed a bit of life back into McCain's faltering numbers...boosters Huckabee a bit, Thompson entering the race...all of that just sucks the support for Rudy and Mitt. You'll have 5 weak war hawks polling equally, more talk about the importance of the Constitution. The makings of the Perfect Storm.

katao
09-06-2007, 12:22 AM
It makes me wonder if the party establishment is going to put pressure to consolidate the field in order to not split the pro-war vote.

Craig_R
09-06-2007, 12:23 AM
I don't know about you guys, but I love this guy! He made the most RATIONAL and PASSIONATE arguments in the entire debate, the other Candidates were all posing and trying to give that Miss South Carolina-type answer....They were all so transparent and superficial, and call me biased, but Ron is the most HONEST and RATIONAL man on that stage.

Hannity and Colmes can kiss my large human backside, especially Hannity, but can we really blame them for their ignorance? They have been fully indoctrinated and just don't KNOW any better, but Ron held his own, I have tremendous respect for this man, doing what I myself attempted to do in 2000. I pray to God, Buddha, Santa, the Easter Bunny and WHOMEVER ELSE I need to pray to, that Ron becomes our next President, and that he is able to accomplish a FRACTION of what he seeks to do.

He has stood up for we Veterans for a long time, He's a great American, one of the few left.

thats a great first post there Dan

smtwngrl
09-06-2007, 12:28 AM
Tonight definitely helped Ron Paul. There were the positives and negatives. I am sure there will be both more supporters and also more "anti-Ron-Paul" people as a result of it. I'm also guessing there were more people watching this debate, as it's getting closer to the primaries and more people are starting to pay attention.

I'm glad he was able to get his message out so well. Tonight's attacks were not just attacks on Ron Paul. They were a clash of ideas. The cards were all on the table, at least with some very important issues. And it wasn't just confined to Iraq and Iran.

There was the talk about torture, civil liberties, and so forth. Yes, that was discussed in the S.C. debate, but it was even more strongly voiced here--and more people were watching who didn't see the S.C. debate. For those who are concerned about these issues, it's very obvious where the other candidates stand, and where Ron Paul stands.

I thought it was fantastic when, even though Ron was not asked about these issues, he was able to answer another question quickly and to insert his view regarding these issues.

Some other pluses:
1. I liked some of the questions Colmes was asking of the other candidates in the post debate interviews. For example, he pointed out to Tancredo that waterboarding was against the Geneva Convention. With another candidate (I forget who), he was reading something from the news about the surge--basically saying that it wasn't working.
2. Huckabee, in a post-debate interview, inadvertently said something which supported Ron Paul. They were questioning him about immigration. He mentioned that it was more difficult for him to get on an airplane in Arkansas than it was for an illegal immigrant to cross the border. This supports Ron Paul's views of civil liberties.
3. It was funny, in the Ron Paul's post debate interview, when Hannity and Colmes were arguing against each other.
4. Ron Paul's winning the debate poll didn't hurt, either. It looks like if they thought the poll wasn't going to be representative, they would call all their friends and tell them to vote for other candidates.....but, inevitably, Ron Paul won as usual. And he didn't just win, he doubled the % of the next closest candidate.

Ninja Homer
09-06-2007, 12:31 AM
Any press is good press, and Ron Paul is getting that name recognition we all know he needs (10%). As for Huckabee, I am sure it did him good but I hated hearing the same quips I heard in earlier debates and interviews. I also learned that it does not matter the cost of other lives, so long as you keep what you consider honor as that is much more important. The way I see it, we don't lose supporters, we take em away, and if this caused those few hundred/thousand people to google Ron Paul and stumble across his stances. KICKASS.

Wow, good point... A pastor saying that honor is more important than human lives. Very Christian of him.

dwdollar
09-06-2007, 12:32 AM
He still had a shaky voice and stumbled through some sentences, but I don't know if it was a bad thing. I think most open minded people could see that his answers weren't canned. Huckabee sounded like he had been rehearsing weeks just for that one on one with Paul.

BenIsForRon
09-06-2007, 12:33 AM
BY FAR the best debate for Ron. Actually... I think we actually had a real debate for about 1 minute when Ron and Huckabee were going back and forth. Ron didn't get pinned down by the loaded questions, "You would take marching orders from Al-Qaeda?" WTF!? He didn't get distracted by the laughing, he was very clear and concise, and he didn't stumble over his words like he has in the past.

The only possibly harmful thing was the whole international law comment, which was right, but it came at a weird spot that made the audience boo.

The best part though, it's looking like we're going to have a FIVE way split on the pro war votes in primaries. You got Guliani, Romney, Thompson, McCain, and now Huckabee seems to be gaining popularity. So while all those votes are diluted amongst the five, Ron Paul takes the rest! He is in a WAY better position than Pat Buchanan in '96. Now all we got to do is fight this electronic voting bullshit.

RockEnds
09-06-2007, 12:43 AM
Great debate.

I'm a little concerned that so many people are worried about the honor thing. Where is the honor in going to war over a lie? I think Huckabee made a complete fool of himself.

Paulitician
09-06-2007, 01:06 AM
Did you guys see how stupified Tancredo was after Ron Paul answered the question about Iran? He must have been dumbed by the amount of wisdom and truth Ron Paul delivered in his answer.

syborius
09-06-2007, 01:15 AM
I think it is very important that Ron clarifies his position on the departments. I think his weakness is not the message, but it is how he allows these loaded questions to go on and on and on.
As soon as I heard that one question regarding eliminating the departments I knew Ron Paul was in trouble. He needs to emphasize that he is for stream-lining the bureaucracy because the departments have become inefficient, bloated, and extremely wasteful, instead of dividing the republican base more he can actually win some undecided votes over to his side if he tones the rhetoric down a bit. It really is a problem though as a business associate of mine has hanged his mind on Ron Paul today because that answer he gave although a good answer regarding the mishandling of information on 911 did not really address the issue of completely dissolving some of these departments. Lets be clear here, it made Ron look like an absolutely fringe candidate, and that is exactly what they are trying to accomplish.

To date I think this libertarian concept is his weakest link, and his abortion stance is another one that should be clarified more on states rights.

if I was advising Ron Paul these are the two issues that he really needs to do a better job in explaining more clearly, and he has to do it immediately after this debate so some people who were turned off by this performance might hear it and
give him another shot.

Overall his points were clear, concise, and he seems more passionate and confident than ever. He just needs to slow down a bit, take his time more, and let his lips catch up with his brain. Go Ron Paul!!!!!!! :) :cool:

syborius
09-06-2007, 01:15 AM
I think it is very important that Ron clarifies his position on the departments. I think his weakness is not the message, but it is how he allows these loaded questions to go on and on and on.
As soon as I heard that one question regarding eliminating the departments I knew Ron Paul was in trouble. He needs to emphasize that he is for stream-lining the bureaucracy because the departments have become inefficient, bloated, and extremely wasteful, instead of dividing the republican base more he can actually win some undecided votes over to his side if he tones the rhetoric down a bit. It really is a problem though as a business associate of mine has hanged his mind on Ron Paul today because that answer he gave although a good answer regarding the mishandling of information on 911 did not really address the issue of completely dissolving some of these departments. Lets be clear here, it made Ron look like an absolutely fringe candidate, and that is exactly what they are trying to accomplish.

To date I think this libertarian concept is his weakest link, and his abortion stance is another one that should be clarified more on states rights.

if I was advising Ron Paul these are the two issues that he really needs to do a better job in explaining more clearly, and he has to do it immediately after this debate so some people who were turned off by this performance might hear it and
give him another shot.

Overall his points were clear, concise, and he seems more passionate and confident than ever. He just needs to slow down a bit, take his time more, and let his lips catch up with his brain. Go Ron Paul!!!!!!! :) :cool:

BenIsForRon
09-06-2007, 01:15 AM
Did you guys see how stupified Tancredo was after Ron Paul answered the question about Iran? He must have been dumbed by the amount of wisdom and truth Ron Paul delivered in his answer.

Haha, yeah I noticed that too. It was too much truth, his brain started shutting down as he realized that everything he believes is a lie.

chon
09-06-2007, 01:18 AM
ron paul bring the claws out tonight!!

leipo
09-06-2007, 01:19 AM
I think it is very important that Ron clarifies his position on the departments. I think his weakness is not the message, but it is how he allows these loaded questions to go on and on and on.

I agree, he should adress this asap. Especially since he quoted the CIA on the Blowback issue before.

Kuldebar
09-06-2007, 01:23 AM
Some nice quotes from Jason Easley over at 411mania.com:


The debate was sponsored and televised by Fox News which means that there were a few givens at work here. First, Ron Paul is the devil. He will be given questions that will paint him as a kook and in the worst light possible. Second, there will be a stupid hypothetical question that will sound like an episode of 24. Third, the frontrunners are going to suck up almost all the airtime.

And he declares Paul a Winner!


Winners

Ron Paul- Ron Paul gets this award just for surviving. Paul is public enemy # 1 on Fox News because of his position on the war. As usual, he did a great job defending his positions, and he is doing his best to warn the GOP that they are heading for disaster. Based on the applause for Huckabee's defeat with honor nonsense, I would say that the Party would rather lose elections than hear the truth. Well, they are probably going to get their wish.

LibertyEagle
09-06-2007, 01:25 AM
I thought he did extraordinarily well. He didn't stutter; his voice didn't get high-pitched. He was great, he was passionate and he was commanding. I loved it! Best debate since the very first one.

LibertyEagle
09-06-2007, 01:26 AM
I agree, he should adress this asap. Especially since he quoted the CIA on the Blowback issue before.

Yeah, I agree. They throw in everything but the kitchen sink and give him one minute to respond.

thuja
09-06-2007, 01:36 AM
No one in America (except hard core Paulites and political addicts) watched the debate. Americans will get information on this debate from the press. So far the reporting on Ron Paul is generally positive, pointing out that he is different from the others. The written reports of what transpired read pretty well. This is what America will see, and it will help RP.

exactly!

it was a headline on comcast news, so for the first time he is written about favorably by the OLD MEDIA. this is a very big deal, and i am smiling.

LibertyEagle
09-06-2007, 01:38 AM
I do wish he would have mentioned that he was talking about the PILOTS being armed; not the passengers. People are imagining shoot out at the OK corral. I thought he was going to say it this time for a minute, but he went off on something else.

michaelwise
09-06-2007, 01:42 AM
Ron had the best one liner. "I take my marching orders from the Constitution."

This debate was a huge win for Ron.

What do you call that look on the moderators faces after Ron finishes speaking. To me they just look dumbfounded and stupefied. They act like a classroom of grade school children. Snickering and bickering. Ron Paul schooled all those people there tonight.

Kuldebar
09-06-2007, 01:44 AM
I do wish he would have mentioned that he was talking about the PILOTS being armed; not the passengers. People are imagining shoot out at the OK corral. I thought he was going to say it this time for a minute, but he went off on something else.

He said airlines which implies employees of the airlines not necessarily pilots, there could be undercover armed guards on flights, for instance.

I agree, some things have to be spoon fed, but even to the unimaginative viewers Paul's correction to Wendall's question was pretty clear I felt.

Paulitician
09-06-2007, 01:48 AM
There's no such thing as nuance to the average television-watching American, I'm afraid.

Ninja Homer
09-06-2007, 01:50 AM
I do wish he would have mentioned that he was talking about the PILOTS being armed; not the passengers. People are imagining shoot out at the OK corral. I thought he was going to say it this time for a minute, but he went off on something else.

My wife and I thought the same thing. Obviously, Ron Paul supporters knew what he was talking about, but some times I think he gives too much credit to the intelligence of average people. Most people have been asleep for far too long, and may not be able to put 2 and 2 together. He did point out that armored car companies protect themselves, so hopefully people get the point.

fourameuphoria
09-06-2007, 02:22 AM
I think Ron really needs to move away from the War thing now, as much as he possibly can. In this debate, he did a damned good job of establishing his stance on the war, and I think it will certainly be in the headlines, and give him plenty of publicity.

Keepeur
09-06-2007, 02:26 AM
He stays on message...That's the most important part.

hard@work
09-06-2007, 02:38 AM
Imagine all the youtube videos of Dr. NO actually yelling "NO!" at Chris Wallace.

BINGO!!!! NEW SIG RIGHT HERE!!

Madison
09-06-2007, 03:42 AM
The only possibly harmful thing was the whole international law comment, which was right, but it came at a weird spot that made the audience boo.

Was he right though? Can anyone tell me what international agreements the U.S. is a part of that makes this true? I honestly do not know the answer to this and would like to know.

BenIsForRon
09-06-2007, 03:50 AM
Was he right though? Can anyone tell me what international agreements the U.S. is a part of that makes this true? I honestly do not know the answer to this and would like to know.

Off the top of my head I can't think of international laws that we are officially violating. But in reality, it is an occupation for the purposes of securing oil supplies and funneling money into the military industrial complex. So yeah, I would imagine it breaks many international laws.

Starks
09-06-2007, 04:00 AM
Ron needs to stick to his guns and continue to make statements that will make him stand out from a crowd of neocon shills.

Brasil Branco
09-06-2007, 04:13 AM
Look- the debate was pretty much rigged. Anyone with half of mind could research Paul's statement on "Planes on Guns" and that question was specifically crafted to paint him in a bad light. How can a multi-billion dollar corporation screw something like that up? They can't unless they want to. Every question was done with the intention of hurting Paul.

I think the one statement that might hurt Ron Paul, and it's the one that's being cherry picked by the press is the risk "dragging down the Republican party", and people are clamoring to point to Huckabee as the winner of that debate.

But, considering how fast Ron Paul was to respond, how passionate and coherent his thoughts came out of his mouth- he was the winner. The fact is, that night Ron Paul looked presidential. The best moment is when he shot back, quick as lightning and without hesitation, "NO! We should take out marching orders from the constitution!" He actually looked thunderous.

Ron Paul will gain exposure- people are disgruntled with the Republican party, and hopefully more people will research him perhaps. Either because they like him or because they think he's a moonbat. His contribution to the debate will be reported, and that's good enough at the moment.

jmunjr
09-06-2007, 04:45 AM
I think Ron really needs to move away from the War thing now, as much as he possibly can. In this debate, he did a damned good job of establishing his stance on the war, and I think it will certainly be in the headlines, and give him plenty of publicity.

Well the thing is there will always be a lot of new 1st-time viewers of Ron Paul. He always has to reiterate his message to let them know what he stands for.

jmunjr
09-06-2007, 04:48 AM
Off the top of my head I can't think of international laws that we are officially violating. But in reality, it is an occupation for the purposes of securing oil supplies and funneling money into the military industrial complex. So yeah, I would imagine it breaks many international laws.

If Paul was President I am not sure there would be many international laws our country would subscribe to...

Thunderbolt
09-06-2007, 04:53 AM
...

john_anderson_ii
09-06-2007, 04:56 AM
Look- the debate was pretty much rigged. Anyone with half of mind could research Paul's statement on "Planes on Guns" and that question was specifically crafted .............snip........... disgruntled with the Republican party, and hopefully more people will research him perhaps. Either because they like him or because they think he's a moonbat. His contribution to the debate will be reported, and that's good enough at the moment.

Ron Paul wants to represent the disgruntled rep party, he should be pissed, damn pissed! The rest of us republicans are.

expatriot
09-06-2007, 04:58 AM
I voted that it hurt Paul. The constant laughing at him by Rudy and the last question talking about getting rid of the FBI really hurt. I wanted to jump at the TV and punch someone.

The Huck exchange was great but that last question really killed it for me

Not that disagreeing against a negative misinterpretation is unappealing,

but rephrasing what I previously said elsewhere here:

Ron Paul represents the rising tide against which every weapon in
the establishment arsenal is aimed at.

Our marching orders are from the Constitution and that makes our
growing support for him a threat unmatched in recent political history.

That Ron Paul underwent such a vehement assault and prevailed just
underlines how seriously the next attempt to silence him will be.

Noting that he literally stands alone on the stage
defending constitutional behavior, his presence is perceptibly feared
by all around him.
They were all buddy-buddy and defensive of their own consensus,
indicating the depth of how seriously they all perceive Ron Paul's chances.

No amount of whitewash can cover up how it is no very obviously
a confrontation between the status-quo establishment and Ron Paul.
The only question remains is who will be the opponent who gets
to lose it to Ron Paul? He has already beaten the rest of the field.

Ron Paul is unanimously not wanted in the debates,
and that is precisely why he is winning.

Madison
09-06-2007, 05:03 AM
Ron Paul represents the rising tide against which every weapon in
the establishment arsenal is aimed at.

Our marching orders are from the Constitution and that makes our
growing support for him a threat unmatched in recent political history.

That Ron Paul underwent such a vehement assault and prevailed just
underlines how seriously the next attempt to silence him will be.

That scares me a whole lot...but I fully believe it...the question is how far they are willing to go. If they are absolutely determined to keep him out of the picture, how far will they go? Recent American history shows a dark fate for all those who gained immense popularity and got close to bringing about significant change for the better.

LibertyEagle
09-06-2007, 06:27 AM
But, considering how fast Ron Paul was to respond, how passionate and coherent his thoughts came out of his mouth- he was the winner. The fact is, that night Ron Paul looked presidential. The best moment is when he shot back, quick as lightning and without hesitation, "NO! We should take out marching orders from the constitution!" He actually looked thunderous.

Sure, I can always think of things I wish he would've said, but the fact is, I was damn proud of him last night. He looked like a President. He sounded like a President. That whole debate was crafted to dismiss him and make him look bad, but he stood his ground and fired back. It was electric.

GO, RON, GO! You made us very proud last night.

J Free
09-06-2007, 08:06 AM
The publicity will certainly still help at this point. But Dr Paul is at a crossroads - and the proof is in the unified attacks on him. If he had truly been a frontrunner yesterday, this debate performance would have been devastating for him.

From this point on, he has got to make his points while BEING presidential. His purpose cannot simply be to score points or to appeal to those who are basically not Republicans but to win the nomination among Republicans.

To do that he IS going to have to broaden his appeal within the Republican Party. Not by changing his positions but by changing his emphasis. He had the opportunity to blow Huckleberry's challenge out of the water. Instead, he went into college professor mode - and a rather flustered angry professor at times.

He is not going to win the nomination by simply implying "I told you so" and he is not going to win it by assuming that every Republican out there in the audience is simply part of the crowd that has been attacking him for years.

He is spending way too much time emphasizing "the mistake" of going into Iraq. Huckabee is absolutely correct when he says that that is for historians. The issue is why we are in a position of permanent mission creep (no congressional declaration) and why the current mission of "security/policework" is unwinnable (no reason for any rational Iraqi nationalist to ever believe we will ever find a victory/exit strategy for Iraq if we haven't yet found reason to have a victory/exit strategy for the confirmed nationbuilding successes of Germany/Japan/Korea).

There are many Republicans (myself and a number of military folks I know) who believe that the war in Iraq was justified even if it wasn't declared by Congress. For the purpose of regime change in order to get ourselves extricated from the Clinton/Dem/Indyk mess of permanent "dual containment" and the half-win/stalemate of Gulf War 1. It is THAT mess which was 2 of the 3 stated reasons (troops in Saudi Arabia and Iraqi sanctions) for binliner's 1996 jihad fatwa. He has got to go for the support of the people who thought a couple of years ago (when a new govt was installed) that it was time to declare victory and go home.

Otherwise, there is a real risk that he is simply painted as an anti-war cut-and-runner. His positions on general nonintervention, congressional declaration, Iraq (and even federal reserve - warfare/welfare state) are all linked. Combined they make him unique - and uniquely Republican. But he MUST make those linkages himself on stage.

belian78
09-06-2007, 08:29 AM
I think our new chant has to be "how many Americans have to die for the U.S. Government to save face?"

I will be making a t-shirt tomorrow!

I want one!

Madison
09-06-2007, 08:45 AM
J Free:

It's not his fault he only gets limited time to speak. The moderators are busy asking The 3™ questions and giving them most of the time. Considering the time he was given, and the fact he won, is amazing.

He doesn't have to broaden his appeal to anyone. He's made all his positions clear, and any attempt to broaden his appeal would be fraudulent.


He is spending way too much time emphasizing "the mistake" of going into Iraq. Huckabee is absolutely correct when he says that that is for historians.

No, it's critical we acknowledge that it was a "mistake" (read: mass murder of thousands of Americans, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's/Afghani's) right now so we can fix it, like RP says. He speaks the obvious truth, nothing more.

paulitics
09-06-2007, 08:52 AM
The publicity will certainly still help at this point. But Dr Paul is at a crossroads - and the proof is in the unified attacks on him. If he had truly been a frontrunner yesterday, this debate performance would have been devastating for him.

From this point on, he has got to make his points while BEING presidential. His purpose cannot simply be to score points or to appeal to those who are basically not Republicans but to win the nomination among Republicans.

To do that he IS going to have to broaden his appeal within the Republican Party. Not by changing his positions but by changing his emphasis. He had the opportunity to blow Huckleberry's challenge out of the water. Instead, he went into college professor mode - and a rather flustered angry professor at times.

He is not going to win the nomination by simply implying "I told you so" and he is not going to win it by assuming that every Republican out there in the audience is simply part of the crowd that has been attacking him for years.

He is spending way too much time emphasizing "the mistake" of going into Iraq. Huckabee is absolutely correct when he says that that is for historians. The issue is why we are in a position of permanent mission creep (no congressional declaration) and why the current mission of "security/policework" is unwinnable (no reason for any rational Iraqi nationalist to ever believe we will ever find a victory/exit strategy for Iraq if we haven't yet found reason to have a victory/exit strategy for the confirmed nationbuilding successes of Germany/Japan/Korea).

There are many Republicans (myself and a number of military folks I know) who believe that the war in Iraq was justified even if it wasn't declared by Congress. For the purpose of regime change in order to get ourselves extricated from the Clinton/Dem/Indyk mess of permanent "dual containment" and the half-win/stalemate of Gulf War 1. It is THAT mess which was 2 of the 3 stated reasons (troops in Saudi Arabia and Iraqi sanctions) for binliner's 1996 jihad fatwa. He has got to go for the support of the people who thought a couple of years ago (when a new govt was installed) that it was time to declare victory and go home.

Otherwise, there is a real risk that he is simply painted as an anti-war cut-and-runner. His positions on general nonintervention, congressional declaration, Iraq (and even federal reserve - warfare/welfare state) are all linked. Combined they make him unique - and uniquely Republican. But he MUST make those linkages himself on stage.

excellent first post. I think some of us old timers on this board have such a bias that we think people will see the world like us. And your right on these points.

krott5333
09-06-2007, 08:53 AM
any time he is on tv speaking it helps

mconder
09-06-2007, 08:58 AM
The constant laughing at him by Rudy and the last question talking about getting rid of the FBI really hurt.

I don't know who it was laughing. I thought it was one of the commentators. Ron would get asked a question and the background laughing would start before Ron even began his answer. I wish paul would have said something like, "Hey, would you have some respect and stop with the cackling over there while I answer the question?!"

JMann
09-06-2007, 09:07 AM
The laughing primarily came from Rudy. That kind of behavior will hurt him more than it helps. Clearly an excellent debate for Paul.

fj45lvr
09-06-2007, 09:08 AM
I can't believe that people actually believe this helped paul in any way.....

while the over-riding principles are true his demeanor and content was not "presedential".....

IMHO the republicans that tuned into this will table Paul as a "loon" and move on and the tragic part is that they don't get to hear his actual message on ECONOMICS and SMALLER GOVERNMENT......to deal a fatal blow these adversaries are zeroing in on what is a weak spot in voter confidence and getting some very damaging blows---doing away with CIA and FBI---- that doesn't go over as not being "soft on defense"..... I agree with Paul that we need to get out of the mess ASAP but this other part with the agencies cements him as "unelectable" with the existing republican base.......and relying on new people to win the nomination is LONG SHOT .

kunzang
09-06-2007, 09:11 AM
From what I can see, he is gaining more people's admiration by showing how he can stand by his principles in the face of adversity. Most folks I know have lost trust in government and politicians because of their ever-changing, self-serving agendas. They are longing for someone whom they can trust to represent them. During debates like this, which are aimed at discrediting him, he stands out from the crowd by the way he upholds his conviction, even when publicly ridiculed. I have many die-hard democrat friends who are now taking notice of Ron Paul because of the the obvious bias mainstream media has towards him. They want to know who this guy is that is so threatening to them and causing them to resort to such low-level, unethical tactics. As far as I am concerned, the more the media and their pundits try to ridicule Ron Paul, the more people are going to want to know who he is. This makes him the real winner.

Slugg
09-06-2007, 09:14 AM
I can't believe that people actually believe this helped paul in any way.....

while the over-riding principles are true his demeanor and content was not "presedential".....

IMHO the republicans that tuned into this will table Paul as a "loon" and move on and the tragic part is that they don't get to hear his actual message on ECONOMICS and SMALLER GOVERNMENT......to deal a fatal blow these adversaries are zeroing in on what is a weak spot in voter confidence and getting some very damaging blows---doing away with CIA and FBI---- that doesn't go over as not being "soft on defense"..... I agree with Paul that we need to get out of the mess ASAP but this other part with the agencies cements him as "unelectable" with the existing republican base.......and relying on new people to win the nomination is LONG SHOT .

I can't believe you thought it hurt him. He made it perfectly clear, to sheeple, that he doesn't want to get rid of the CIA or the FBI. He wants to do away with Dep of Homeland Security. And I thought he made a great case for it.

If anything, he made himself look more electable in the debate. I think the common mistake is that current republicans are all Neo-Cons..and that is the biggest mistake every other candidate made when choosing their running platform. He definently pulled many 'fence sitters' with this debate.

What he also did, and more important, he galvanized the pro war/ anti war republicans. He has said, in no uncertain terms, "I'm not going anywhere, so you have to decide if you really want to fight or not!" That's awesome!!!

This debate helped, There is NO WAY AT ALL it hurt him. Anyone who is going to turn away from RP completely because of the stupidly worded question was against him to begin with.

The only 'mistake' I thought he made the whole night was calling the war illegal by international law. That was a mistake. He may have gotten a bit ahead of himself on that one. But, he was energized and it slipped....it happens. It's not going to kill him.

wgadget
09-06-2007, 09:17 AM
Do I smell a troll?

JaylieWoW
09-06-2007, 09:19 AM
Here's my take.

1) RP certainly did not come out on top.
2) He did stand his ground very well given that most of his questions were loaded to make him look bad to "mainstream Republicans" from the get go. Eliminating the FBI and CIA, Chris Wallace's cheap shot about taking our marching orders from Al-Qaeda, etc.
3) It was exposure, not good or bad, just exposure. As long as it gets more people to research, who cares if it's cuz they wanna see what this whack job is all about.

I think Huckabee did really well. Maybe he even won if there are ever any winners in these thing. McCain's performance was a surprise. Definitely his best so far.

As for Paul winning the text and online polls, we need to change the spin on this. We can't convince them that the polls reflect his true popularity. Hell, I don't even believe most of them. But what they really reveal that nobody is excited enough about the other candidates to vote in every online poll they can find.

I hope some disgruntled Fox employee can leak B-roll footage of Rudy laughing every time they asked Ron Paul a question. That really pissed me off.

I'd really like to see a well respected reporter/journalist spell out how disrespectful that was of Giuliani. He acted like a petty, spoiled, bratty child. No wonder his family doesn't like him, he probably doesn't respect anyone's opinions other than his own. This is a point I would passionately like to see driven home.

I agree with some here who expressed being glad they weren't in attendance personally. I have a really long fuse, but once its lit, get the hell out of the way! If I didn't like Giuliani before I certainly would magnify that dislike by the nth degree now. Smug politicians like Giuliani are the reason we have such a big government today. Grrrrr...!!

stevedasbach
09-06-2007, 09:28 AM
Paul and Huckabee both won the exchange. This was the memorable moment from the debate -- the won that gets mentioned in the news articles and played over and over. Paul will pick up support from Republicans, Independents, etc. who are opposed to the war -- Huckabee will pick up support from pro-war Republicans who aren't keen on the so-called "top-tier".

Both developments are good for us. As someone else noted, there are now five solid pro-war Republicans spliting the pro-war vote; with only one candidate available who opposes the war. If Paul is able to consolidate the anti-war Republican vote (which is over 20%) and the rest split the pro-war vote evenly, Paul wins. And, as it becomes clear that the surge really isn't working, the pro-war vote will decline and Paul's will increase.

In terms of debating points, there are many points that Paul could have made clearer. However, strategically, he made news, which is exactly what he needed to do.

sunny
09-06-2007, 09:40 AM
I don't know about you guys, but I love this guy! He made the most RATIONAL and PASSIONATE arguments in the entire debate, the other Candidates were all posing and trying to give that Miss South Carolina-type answer....They were all so transparent and superficial, and call me biased, but Ron is the most HONEST and RATIONAL man on that stage.

Hannity and Colmes can kiss my large human backside, especially Hannity, but can we really blame them for their ignorance? They have been fully indoctrinated and just don't KNOW any better, but Ron held his own, I have tremendous respect for this man, doing what I myself attempted to do in 2000. I pray to God that Ron becomes our next President, and that he is able to accomplish a FRACTION of what he seeks to do.

He has stood up for we Veterans for a long time, He's a great American, one of the few left.

well said dan! i totally agree! except for the fact that they don't know any better - perhaps they do and they're just scumbuckets like the rest of the neo-cons etc.
as a christian woman i edited the other deities out of your post in my reply. hope you don't mind!

Mastiff
09-06-2007, 09:48 AM
I think it is very important that Ron clarifies his position on the departments. I think his weakness is not the message, but it is how he allows these loaded questions to go on and on and on.
As soon as I heard that one question regarding eliminating the departments I knew Ron Paul was in trouble. He needs to emphasize that he is for stream-lining the bureaucracy because the departments have become inefficient, bloated, and extremely wasteful, instead of dividing the republican base more he can actually win some undecided votes over to his side if he tones the rhetoric down a bit. It really is a problem though as a business associate of mine has hanged his mind on Ron Paul today because that answer he gave although a good answer regarding the mishandling of information on 911 did not really address the issue of completely dissolving some of these departments. Lets be clear here, it made Ron look like an absolutely fringe candidate, and that is exactly what they are trying to accomplish.

To date I think this libertarian concept is his weakest link, and his abortion stance is another one that should be clarified more on states rights.

if I was advising Ron Paul these are the two issues that he really needs to do a better job in explaining more clearly, and he has to do it immediately after this debate so some people who were turned off by this performance might hear it and
give him another shot.

Overall his points were clear, concise, and he seems more passionate and confident than ever. He just needs to slow down a bit, take his time more, and let his lips catch up with his brain. Go Ron Paul!!!!!!! :) :cool:


Totally agree. Fox succeeded in making him look fringe. I love Paul, but sometimes it seems like he can't see the world through the eyes of a mainstream person. He needed to shoot down that FBI, CIA comment immediately, don't defend it. Paul is awesome to people who will take the time to read where he's really coming from, but most people won't.

I also think he needs to really answer the question on "what about a potential bloodbath in Iraq"? He keeps saying that people who say that are not credible, but that's really not true. Some people who care about that are just Joe's on the street. He needs a response, even if it's as simple as "it's already a bloodbath, and there is no compelling reason to believe it will be worse when we leave." Or something.

emilysdad
09-06-2007, 10:07 AM
any time he is on tv speaking it helps

bump

Slugg
09-06-2007, 10:12 AM
Totally agree. Fox succeeded in making him look fringe. I love Paul, but sometimes it seems like he can't see the world through the eyes of a mainstream person. He needed to shoot down that FBI, CIA comment immediately, don't defend it. Paul is awesome to people who will take the time to read where he's really coming from, but most people won't.


I thought he 'spun' that answer perfect. He didn't look fringe to me at all. Keep in mind, I voted for Bush both times. So, I'm not sure how much more mainstream I could have been when I discovered Ron Paul. He didn't defend the idea of getting rid of the CIA and FBI. He defended the idea of getting rid of Homeland Security. He, yet again, showed the ineffectiveness of big government. He's doing wonderfully.



I also think he needs to really answer the question on "what about a potential bloodbath in Iraq"? He keeps saying that people who say that are not credible, but that's really not true. Some people who care about that are just Joe's on the street. He needs a response, even if it's as simple as "it's already a bloodbath, and there is no compelling reason to believe it will be worse when we leave." Or something.


He has said what you suggest many times in interviews. I think in the context of the debate his response was perfect. It was a counter. Here's how it translated:

Wallace: "The Neo-Cons tell us that if we leave it will turn into a bloodbath. Don't you care about that?"

Paul: "The Neo-Cons have been wrong about everything. Don't believe them."


Perfect.

JMann
09-06-2007, 10:24 AM
I do think it would be wise for Paul to focus on 3 to 5 issues. Most voters will never understand why he would want to get rid or the FBI or CIA so no need to even spend a second on it during a debate. Not to mention the fact that President Paul would never be able to get rid of these two groups anyway.

An answer something along the lines that the CIA and FBI don't work and we will discuss fixing that problem when I'm president I know I will work day and night to rid our country of the IRS and the Department of Education. Let me get a show of hands of the conservatives on this stage that will make that pledge.

If they raise there hands they have made a promise and agree with Paul, if not, they are showing they don't have any desire to reduce the size of government. If I was Paul I would ask for a show of hands on many issues. They will either agree with 'the crazy guy' or demonstrate they are for bigger government and less liberty.

smtwngrl
09-06-2007, 04:42 PM
Did you guys see how stupified Tancredo was after Ron Paul answered the question about Iran? He must have been dumbed by the amount of wisdom and truth Ron Paul delivered in his answer.

It was awesome that Ron Paul was asked that question first. All of the other answers to the question seemed anti-climactic after his response.

I sort of had that impression from Tancredo, too. It was like he was answering what his normal answer would be, but he was uncertain....or it didn't sound as good as what he had just heard...or something.