Anyone else feel good about the Dow closing 777 points lower?

[Rhys]

I kinda like it.... call it God's work? :D

[devil21]

I call it We The People forcing the market to correct itself.

[NewEnd]

I feel good about JPM losing 15%. Ha ha... now they gonna have to eat all that trash they bought from WaMu. they thought they would be able to pass it off on us.

AHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

[Trigonx]

I see it as a correction, it will show the true value of what the stocks should be. However, I can see the government using this as reasoning that we need a bailout and we need it RIGHT NOW. When it goes down enough to where people see value in the stocks it will stabilize, but I think we will see some intervention very very soon that will not let the market correct itself.

[dawnbt]

Actually I do feel a bit warm and fuzzy!

[max]

It's better to know what the DOW and housing markets are REALLY worth so we can can better understand and address the problem.

If I have a serious illness.....I'd want to know how bad it is , so I can formulate a plan to get healthy again..... as opposed to the doctor propping me up with temporary feel good meds that mask the problem and make the inevitable day of reckoning worse...

let the DOW and housing markets go where gravity must take them......It has to happen.

[slacker921]

I don't "like" it, but realize it's just the result of failed economic policy. It also beats the alternative, which is borrowing or printing more money to prop up the markets for a few months longer and paying for it for several generations.

[angelatc]

I'm not crazy about it, but I'm probably going to buy some stocks that I like while they're cheap.

[Bruno]

I like it, even though my own 401k took a hit, its still a victory

[kombayn]

I like it, even though my own 401k took a hit, its still a victory

Completely agree. It also makes me wonder, how I should actually invest and save my money.

[cheapseats]

Seven percent, as well, if I'm not mistaken.

If you're a sign kind of person, which stock market people certainly seem to be, it seems like as good a sign as you're gonna get on the alley part of going around the block.

[paulitics]

If the Fed would stop printing so much money, it would go down to its real value, which would be healthy in the long run. Oil would also go down to a reasonable value very quickly, and the dollar would start rising. The negative impact would be the economy would slow down and we would likly face deep recession/depression. But that beats, a new financial world order, where the fed takes over the economy and we have an extended hyperinflation depression this country would never recover from without a revolution. We do not want the dollar to collapse.

[jabrownie]

My portfolio went down 3% today, but ehh...it's for the good of the country, so I'm fine with it. Correction is needed.

[Original_Intent]

I like it, even though my own 401k took a hit, its still a victory

Exact same.

[qh4dotcom]

As lon as it wakes up the sheeple, I'm fine with it.

[angelatc]

My portfolio went down 3% today, but ehh...it's for the good of the country, so I'm fine with it. Correction is needed.

Yeah, what's good for the stockholders isn't always what's good for the economy. And hey - the bond traders were busy for the first time in years.

[NEPA_Revolution]

Ironically.... seeing the numbers taking a plunge due to a correct economic decision does make me feel all fuzzy inside.

[Rhys]

i should add... i do feel good but damn it, my job may vanish and I am worried about the depression because we avoided "the bailout" but the Fed is still bailing out anyway and we're in scary shape. i wouldn't tough a stock, even at these prices... i'll wait till money's more worthless and stocks are more lower... it will make it a double coupon.

[Indy4Chng]

Yes... as Peter Schiff says... a recession is when the economy corrects what it did wrong. This is good we need to keep it going, the sooner we hit bottom, the sooner we can start to fix this mess.

Also why does the Dow get so much play the S&P 500 is such a better measure of the market, btw it was down over 9% today. I think we need about a 25% pullback, we are at about 10-12%. We also need short-term interest rates to go to about 9-10% from the 5% we are at now.

[jkm1864]

Considering the number 7 is the number of completion .... 6 is the number of man

777 is the number for god

666 is the number for the anit christ


Yes I think its kind of prophetic to say the least and it just shows the end is near. I will loose my job more than likely but I can't be happier. I'll move in with my family and spend time with my family and enjoy all my food stores while the Obama & Mc'Cain zombies tear each other apart under martial law. As a matter of fact those fooooooks deserve it for stealing my tax money all these years and trampling all over my rights. They should have read their constitution and we wouldn't have got into this mess. Oh its their fault they just don't know it yet. I am sure happy to know true patriots like You guys because I at least know when all is said and done true patriots will move in and pick up the pieces.

[mysticgeek]

This is the beginning of great things! The market is fixing itself.

This whole "scared" thing ... what the heck? Are people supposed to worry that they cannot buy a new car every year on credit? Live Frugal people! A used $500 care will get you there just the same as a $30K SUV

[rprprs]

I see it as a correction, it will show the true value of what the stocks should be. However, I can see the government using this as reasoning that we need a bailout and we need it RIGHT NOW. When it goes down enough to where people see value in the stocks it will stabilize, but I think we will see some intervention very very soon that will not let the market correct itself.

I agree, particularly with your assessment that it will be used against us. It will be fuel for their scare tactics. I wish it had not been so dramatic. We can see beyond it, but many Americans will not.

[jcarcinogen]

I went to sleep pessimistic and for a change was happy that the House isn't as corrupt as the Senate (2 year terms) and actually represented the constituents they represent, the dems that voted nay too should be thanked. Especially Kucinich who made a very fiery statement.

/cheers!

[NewEnd]

I lost 6% today from my portfolio

I am elated.

[libertarian4321]

I kinda like it.... call it God's work? :D

I wouldn't get too giddy if I were you- even if you have no stocks, mutual funds, or 401K money invested in the market and think you have nothing to lose.

When the markets fall, even those of us who have money and don't buy on credit tend to tighten up on our spending. That affects the economy and everyone who works in it.

Will a rich or well off investor "go broke" or stop spending because his portfolio tanks? No. But he might just decide to run his car a couple of years more, he might cut out a couple of restaurant visits per week, or cancel a vacation, or go shopping less often- and those kind of decisions affect everyone, down to the lowest paid people just getting along.

Frankly, a market crash is annoying to a millionaire, but in the long run, it can have devastating affects to those on the margin- those who live paycheck to paycheck- and thats most Americans.

Another thing, you don't make a lot of friends when you jump up and down with glee when a lot of people are taking a big financial hit.

[nodope0695]

I don't own stock, so I could give a shit.

[Ex Post Facto]

Watching the foreign markets, they basically slaughtered the dollar.

[Bman]

I can't say I liked it. I know it can bring in a chance to usher in a new age and for people to take back the power, but it can also be used to strip us of power. This is something that was needed to help start leveling the playing field for liberty over slavery. But if you think this is a celebration you have fooled yourself. If today was anything it was the opening pitch of opening day for the Major League season.

[nodope0695]

Watching the foreign markets, they basically slaughtered the dollar.

Not supprised at all. Watch the Euro take off....

[tron paul]

ron paul pwns the babylon system!!!

Day one...

JUMP YOU FCUKERS!

[Dustancostine]

This is the beginning of great things! The market is fixing itself.

This whole "scared" thing ... what the heck? Are people supposed to worry that they cannot buy a new car every year on credit? Live Frugal people! A used $500 care will get you there just the same as a $30K SUV

I will tell you what we did this year. Sold our Mercedes Benz E320 (Which originally cost $54,000 on credit, from when I was stupid and hadn't seen the light) and bought a $2000 1994 Suburban, and put $500 in light mechanical repairs into it. Just as happy and much better off.

[phoenixrising]

i'm in...i'm down & wth...it's the VALUE of FREEDOM!!! let it correct!!!!!!

[phoenixrising]

I don't "like" it, but realize it's just the result of failed economic policy. It also beats the alternative, which is borrowing or printing more money to prop up the markets for a few months longer and paying for it for several generations.


...& being OWNED!

[phoenixrising]

I think we need about a 25% pullback, we are at about 10-12%. We also need short-term interest rates to go to about 9-10% from the 5% we are at now.


ya know ..i bought my first home w/a 13% interest!!! ...& survived!

[phoenixrising]

& no ...it's not a *celebration*...it's more like "ok...let it begin--needs to"

everyone needs to tighten up...save...be frugal....go to basics...& still find something to be grateful for--it's NOT about *stuff* ..never was....some may have lost track of that & it's ok...now is a new/different day.

reality sets in.

[anaconda]

I'm diggin it. For every day that we tough out a depression without government interference, we will grow more free.

[Mark]

I wouldn't get too giddy if I were you- even if you have no stocks, mutual funds, or 401K money invested in the market and think you have nothing to lose.

When the markets fall, even those of us who have money and don't buy on credit tend to tighten up on our spending. That affects the economy and everyone who works in it.

Will a rich or well off investor "go broke" or stop spending because his portfolio tanks? No. But he might just decide to run his car a couple of years more, (saves the worlds resources) he might cut out a couple of restaurant visits per week (do we really need all of those restaurants?) , or cancel a vacation (less use of imported oil ect), or go shopping less often (less shopping malls ect)- and those kind of decisions affect everyone, down to the lowest paid people just getting along.

Frankly, a market crash is annoying to a millionaire, but in the long run, it can have devastating affects to those on the margin- those who live paycheck to paycheck- and thats most Americans.

Another thing, you don't make a lot of friends when you jump up and down with glee when a lot of people are taking a big financial hit.

Didn't those "well off" who were positioned correctly make a fortune today?

Is spending money on things that aren't really needed a good thing?

Couldn't that capital be invested more productively in endeavors that will actually make a positive difference in society
instead of continuing the sin of 5% of the world's population using a much greater percentage of the resources?

(The US (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-population-hits-300-million-but-is-it-sustainable-419542.html) - with 5% of the world's population - uses 23% of its energy, 15% of its meat and 28% of its paper.)

I believe you're mistaken if you think propping up a consumer led economy is a good thing in the long run
for the lower paid workers of the world.

We need to spend capital and resources in positive ways that will truly help those less fortunate,
not wasteful ways that allow a few to live to excess and which keeps the less fortunate in their day-to-day wage situation.

"Another thing, you don't make a lot of friends when you" state that you living the good life is beneficial to society because
it employs people in jobs that barely offer a sustenance wage.

There are a lot better ways to spend your money to help the less fortunate than buying a new car every year,
going on vacations, going shopping, and eating in restaurants.

How about, instead of spending $250 in one night on a expensive meal, spending $250 to feed 10 starving children for a whole month?

How about, instead of buying a new Mercedes this year, sponsor something a low-income-area school needs?

Instead of going on an expensive vacation, invest in a church community improvement project.

Then you will really be doing something positive for those who need the influx of capital
instead of just furthering conditions that prolong them being in a paycheck-to-paycheck rut.

We don't need more consuming, we need better solutions.

Less consuming, more improving.

[freelance]

I can't be objective, because I'm all out. Still, I'm not exactly happy about it. The DJIA was at a similar level in 2001 when Bush took office, but we've lost 40% of the dollar since then. So, in 2000 USDs, we are really at about 6000+. I just love it when people say that historically the market always makes money. I guess that all depends on your definition of money.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^DJI#symbol=^DJI;range=my;compare=

http://www.chartsrus.com/chart.php?image=http://www.sharelynx.com/chartstemp/free/chartind1CRUvoi.php?ticker=FUTDX

[Truth Warrior]

Has the "reversion to the trend mean" principle been repealed? :rolleyes:

[freelance]

Has the "reversion to the trend mean" principle been repealed? :rolleyes:

Do you ever sleep?

[libertarian4321]

Didn't those "well off" who were positioned correctly make a fortune today?

Is spending money on things that aren't really needed a good thing?

Couldn't that capital be invested more productively in endeavors that will actually make a positive difference in society
instead of continuing the sin of 5% of the world's population using a much greater percentage of the resources?

(The US (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-population-hits-300-million-but-is-it-sustainable-419542.html) - with 5% of the world's population - uses 23% of its energy, 15% of its meat and 28% of its paper.)

I believe you're mistaken if you think propping up a consumer led economy is a good thing in the long run
for the lower paid workers of the world.

We need to spend capital and resources in positive ways that will truly help those less fortunate,
not wasteful ways that allow a few to live to excess and which keeps the less fortunate in their day-to-day wage situation.

"Another thing, you don't make a lot of friends when you" state that you living the good life is beneficial to society because
it employs people in jobs that barely offer a sustenance wage.

There are a lot better ways to spend your money to help the less fortunate than buying a new car every year,
going on vacations, going shopping, and eating in restaurants.

How about, instead of spending $250 in one night on a expensive meal, spending $250 to feed 10 starving children for a whole month?

How about, instead of buying a new Mercedes this year, sponsor something a low-income-area school needs?

Instead of going on an expensive vacation, invest in a church community improvement project.

Then you will really be doing something positive for those who need the influx of capital
instead of just furthering conditions that prolong them being in a paycheck-to-paycheck rut.

We don't need more consuming, we need better solutions.

Less consuming, more improving.

Your self righteous rant doesn't change a thing I said.

First, the wealthy already give far more to charity than anyone else. Guess what- when they lose money in a tanking market, they also give less to charity (duh?).

Second, sending a check to Bangladesh isn't going to help the large number of people in the USA who will likely lose their jobs if the financial crisis continues.

BTW, its got nothing to do with "living the good life" or living like Donald Trump- I'm talking about ordinary purchases. The idea that the wealthy all dine only at 5-star restaurants, shop at Saks, and drive only Mercedes is a myth (Read "The Millionaire Next Door." Your garden variety millionaire is more likely to drive a Ford, shop at Target, and eat at Olive Garden- but when they feel their net worth is going down, they will cut back on their purchases- and that affects ALL Americans, not just the titans on wall street.

The point was, of course, that this stuff eventually affects ALL of us, not just big investors and bankers.

[Mark]

Your self righteous rant doesn't change a thing I said.

And to think, I went out of my way to phrase things in a way that wasn't pointing the finger at your self-righteous rant.



First, the wealthy already give far more to charity than anyone else. Guess what- when they lose money in a tanking market, they also give less to charity (duh?).

So, you give a portion of your excess huh? What percentage? Is it a higher percentage than the "widow's mite"?

I doubt it, given how you like a life of luxury on the backs of the poor.



Second, sending a check to Bangladesh isn't going to help the large number of people in the USA who will likely lose their jobs if the financial crisis continues.


I mentioned local help as well. Churches, schools.


So, to you, funding computers for a poor school district to help the children rise out of a life of poverty is worse
than facilitating the conditions that keep their parents in a low paying dead end job?



BTW, its got nothing to do with "living the good life" or living like Donald Trump- I'm talking about ordinary purchases. The idea that the wealthy all dine only at 5-star restaurants, shop at Saks, and drive only Mercedes is a myth (Read "The Millionaire Next Door." Your garden variety millionaire is more likely to drive a Ford, shop at Target, and eat at Olive Garden- but when they feel their net worth is going down, they will cut back on their purchases- and that affects ALL Americans, not just the titans on wall street.

The point was, of course, that this stuff eventually affects ALL of us, not just big investors and bankers.

It's got EVERYTHING to do with "living the good life".

I hate to break it to you, but "living the good life" to a vast number of people is having food to feed their children.

To you it's new cars and vacations and eating in restaurants and shopping for new things.

You have no concept of what's necessary to live verses excesses that are beyond what's needed.

You just want to waste resources on buying things you don't REALLY need instead of using that money to invest in technology and projects
that will truly help the poor that have to live that way in order for you to live in your privileged world.

No wonder it's harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven than a camel to enter a city through an "eye of a needle".



And, MY point being, allocating resources to further prop up a consumer based economy
instead of a solution based economy is worse for the less fortunate.

Your problem being, you think you're doing the less fortunate a favor by wasting resources
that could be invested in a much more intelligent manner.

You need to start measuring your "net worth" by actions verses possessions.

Then maybe you'll see HOW we can REALLY help the poor by our expenditures.

[Truth Warrior]

Do you ever sleep? Yep, but not much. ;) Damned "red pill". :D

[freelance]

Yep, but not much. ;) Damned "red pill". :D

Last I remember (oh, about 30+ years ago), the Red pill puts you to sleep. :eek:

[werdd]

people who wake up before work just to bullshit around on ron paul forums UNITE!

[LibertyEagle]

Couldn't that capital be invested more productively in endeavors that will actually make a positive difference in society
instead of continuing the sin of 5% of the world's population using a much greater percentage of the resources?

(The US (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-population-hits-300-million-but-is-it-sustainable-419542.html) - with 5% of the world's population - uses 23% of its energy, 15% of its meat and 28% of its paper.)

I believe you're mistaken if you think propping up a consumer led economy is a good thing in the long run
for the lower paid workers of the world.

We need to spend capital and resources in positive ways that will truly help those less fortunate,
not wasteful ways that allow a few to live to excess and which keeps the less fortunate in their day-to-day wage situation.
Mark, I'm sorry, but this sounds like a bunch of Communistic hoohah.

[Truth Warrior]

Last I remember (oh, about 30+ years ago), the Red pill puts you to sleep. :eek:


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/red-pill-or-blue-pill.jpg

"How Deep the Rabbit Hole Goes" (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1054472&postcount=16) ;)

[LibertyEagle]

And to think, I went out of my way to phrase things in a way that wasn't pointing the finger at your self-righteous rant.



So, you give a portion of your excess huh? What percentage? Is it a higher percentage than the "widow's mite"?

I doubt it, given how you like a life of luxury on the backs of the poor.



I mentioned local help as well. Churches, schools.


So, to you, funding computers for a poor school district to help the children rise out of a life of poverty is worse
than facilitating the conditions that keep their parents in a low paying dead end job?



It's got EVERYTHING to do with "living the good life".

I hate to break it to you, but "living the good life" to a vast number of people is having food to feed their children.

To you it's new cars and vacations and eating in restaurants and shopping for new things.

You have no concept of what's necessary to live verses excesses that are beyond what's needed.

You just want to waste resources on buying things you don't REALLY need instead of using that money to invest in technology and projects
that will truly help the poor that have to live that way in order for you to live in your privileged world.

No wonder it's harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven than a camel to enter a city through an "eye of a needle".



And, MY point being, allocating resources to further prop up a consumer based economy
instead of a solution based economy is worse for the less fortunate.

Your problem being, you think you're doing the less fortunate a favor by wasting resources
that could be invested in a much more intelligent manner.

You need to start measuring you "net worth" by actions verses possessions.

Then maybe you'll see HOW we can REALLY help the poor by our expenditures.

My God, Mark, do you hear yourself? Your rant sounds a lot like Karl Marx's...
From each to his ability; to each to his need.

[freelance]

"how deep the rabbit hole goes" ;)

lol!

[Mark]

Mark, I'm sorry, but this sounds like a bunch of Communistic hoohah.

Last time I checked, Jesus said the Father's Will was for us to take care of the widows and orphans.

Don't tell me, tell The Father.

[revolutionman]

I cant say i took any particular pleasure from it.

I think of it like picking up dog shit. You don't wanna do it, but you know damn well you cant leave that mess there.

[Mark]

My God, Mark, do you hear yourself? Your rant sounds a lot like Karl Marx's...
From each to his ability; to each to his need.

No it's, HOW do we spend resources? On a consumer based economy? More things?

Or a solution based economy? Wind, solar, geothermal. ect, verses more trinkets that we don't need to live?

America is going down the tubes because we're a "service based" economy instead of manufacturing based.

All the jobs are at McDonald's instead of businesses that will reduce the need for foreign oil ect ect.

We don't need to "redistribute" the wealth (to everyone equally in a communist manner), we need to invest it wiser.

Then the standard of living will rise for everyone instead of perpetuating the downward spiral we're in.

[LibertyEagle]

Last time I checked, Jesus said the Father's Will was for us to take care of the widows and orphans.

Don't tell me, tell The Father.

Mark, it's not your business what other people do with their money. It's only your business what you do WITH YOUR OWN.

[LibertyEagle]

America is going down the tubes because we're a "service based" economy instead of manufacturing based.

On this, we agree. However, that's not the only reason we're going down the tubes.

[Truth Warrior]

lol! "slavelance" :rolleyes:

[Mark]

Mark, it's not your business what other people do with their money. It's only your business what you do WITH YOUR OWN.

I never said it was my business,
I merely said we should invest in solution based ideas instead on throwing it away on trinkets we don't really need.

Buying more crap at Target that someone can get by without won't increase a person's wealth,
saving that money and investing in technology and jobs that will find new solutions to the world's problems
and increase people's standard of living WILL increase a person's wealth.

[Mark]

On this, we agree. However, that's not the only reason we're going down the tubes.

And another reason is because people think they need a new car and vacations and restaurants and shopping
which waste both physical resources and capital beyond need.

We were the strongest economy in the world because of people who lived during the Depression
and KNEW what it meant to spend wisely and HOW to do it.

We've lost that as a nation. And we're going down the tubes because of it. Among other things of course,
but we can't control TPTB, only our own actions.

Think about people who get rich when they started out poor. (excluding nefarious means)

They know the value of a dollar and how to invest it profitably.

We need to invest wisely instead of wasting capital on things we can do without.

[MsDoodahs]

And other reason is because people think they need a new car and vacations and restaurants and shopping
which waste resources beyond need.

We were the strongest economy in the world because of people who lived during the Depression
and KNEW what it meant to spend wisely and HOW to do it.

We've lost that as a nation. And we're going down the tubes because of it. Among other things of course,
but we can't control TPTB, only our own actions.

Think about people who get rich when they started out poor. (excluding nefarious means)

They know the value of a dollar and how to invest it wisely.

We need to invest wisely instead of wasting capital on things we can do without.

Many of us (most of us?) here already DO invest wisely and refuse to waste capital.

We're getting hit because of the excesses of OTHERS.

The reason WE are taking a hit for the excesses of OTHERS is because of THE SYSTEM.

If WE are forced again to take the hit for the excesses of OTHERS, those OTHERS will NEVER LEARN because they will never suffer consequences of their own actions.

[freelance]

It's long past time to teach them how to fish.

[Mark]

Many of us (most of us?) here already DO invest wisely and refuse to waste capital.

We're getting hit because of the excesses of OTHERS.

The reason WE are taking a hit for the excesses of OTHERS is because of THE SYSTEM.

If WE are forced again to take the hit for the excesses of OTHERS, those OTHERS will NEVER LEARN because they will never suffer consequences of their own actions.


Exactly, and part of our system is based around ideas like going to restaurants that provide low paying wages is better for a waitress
than investing in geothermal technology which will provide her a higher paying job and reduce her energy costs.

Remember the TV show Startrek? Poverty had been eliminated because of advances in technology, not because of eating at a restaurant.

[freelance]

Exactly, and part of our system is based around ideas like going to restaurants that provide low paying wages is better for a waitress
than investing in geothermal technology which will provide her a higher paying job and reduce her energy costs.

Remember the TV show Startrek? Poverty had been eliminated because of advances in technology, not because of eating at a restaurant.

On the few occasions when I still eat out (and I do mean few), I don't really weigh those two options. I am usually intent on celebrating an occasion and enjoying a few hours in the company of friends, complete with food and drink--food and drink that I did not have to locate, purchase, prepare, cook and clean up.

[Truth Warrior]

Would someone please tell Mark that Star Trek was only a fictional TV series. :rolleyes:

[Mark]

On the few occasions when I still eat out (and I do mean few), I don't really weigh those two options. I am usually intent on celebrating an occasion and enjoying a few hours in the company of friends, complete with food and drink--food and drink that I did not have to locate, purchase, prepare, cook and clean up.

A few weeks ago when I went to a grocery store on a food storage run they had to call the manger over to approve my purchase
because I saved so much money.

I paid $110 on $180 worth of groceries. (Saved $70)
It was well over 2 months enough of food to live on. Closer to 3 months worth.

I constantly save that percentage or more.

Maybe it is too late to teach them to fish, but some people still seem to be lost as to how we got here.

[Mark]

Would someone please tell Mark that Star Trek was only a fictional TV series. :rolleyes:

I knew someone would make a joke statement about that example. :rolleyes:

However, ever notice how current technologies often mirror earlier science fiction? TW? Have you missed that?
Where imaginative thought precedes actualization?

[mconder]

I'm sure my cousin doesn't. He lost $10,000 in the last week.

[libertarian4321]

[QUOTE]And to think, I went out of my way to phrase things in a way that wasn't pointing the finger at your self-righteous rant.

So, you give a portion of your excess huh? What percentage? Is it a higher percentage than the "widow's mite"?

I doubt it, given how you like a life of luxury on the backs of the poor.

You really are full of yourself, aren't you? Self-righteous, angry, judgmental and utterly clueless. You must have a lot of friends, lol.

You might be surprised to learn that many millionaires live like middle class folks, despite having the monetary means to live a life of "luxury"- thats part of the reason they are millionaires- they live well below their means.

Oh dear, one of my servants just spilled my breakfast champagne, give me a moment to punish her and I'll be right back...



So, to you, funding computers for a poor school district to help the children rise out of a life of poverty is worse
than facilitating the conditions that keep their parents in a low paying dead end job?

Their parents will be in dead end jobs unless THEY do something to improve themselves. Actually, as my original post pointed out, they may have NO JOBS if people (all people, not just the wealthy) pull back on spending because of the "wealth effect."


You have no concept of what's necessary to live verses excesses that are beyond what's needed.

I think you are making another common mistake- assuming that people with money were born with silver spoons in their mouths. News flash, genius, most were not. The overwhelming majority of millionaires in the USA (80-85%) are self made and came from middle class or lower backgrounds.


No wonder it's harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven than a camel to enter a city through an "eye of a needle".

I'll let someone else respond to the religious blather- its not really my thing.

Again, despite your self-righteous rants, my original point still holds, when the economy tanks, the POOR are hurt more than the rich in the long run.

If a rich guy sees his net worth fall from 2 million to 1.5 million, its annoying and may cause him to make minor adjustments in his life, but not a huge deal. Even if he loses his job, its not all that big a deal, because he has the financial cushion to live for years without a job.

But when the economy and markets tank, people slow or stop spending, finances tighten, and they and other people start losing their jobs.

When those living on the edge (and that includes many in the middle class and even among the professional classes) lose their jobs, they feel REAL pain- they lose their houses, their cars, and even the ability to feed their families.

I know, you probably aren't sophisticated enough to understand any of this, but I figured I'd toss it out anyway. Go ahead, give me another rant about the evils of money, lol.

As I stated in my original post, a LOT of people are going to be hurt by this entire scenario, and poor people are going to get hurt far more than the rich, so its not a good idea for any of us to be acting gleeful at the misfortune of others- because in the long run, this affects all of us.

[SnappleLlama]

Didn't those "well off" who were positioned correctly make a fortune today?

Is spending money on things that aren't really needed a good thing?

Couldn't that capital be invested more productively in endeavors that will actually make a positive difference in society
instead of continuing the sin of 5% of the world's population using a much greater percentage of the resources?

(The US (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-population-hits-300-million-but-is-it-sustainable-419542.html) - with 5% of the world's population - uses 23% of its energy, 15% of its meat and 28% of its paper.)

I believe you're mistaken if you think propping up a consumer led economy is a good thing in the long run
for the lower paid workers of the world.

We need to spend capital and resources in positive ways that will truly help those less fortunate,
not wasteful ways that allow a few to live to excess and which keeps the less fortunate in their day-to-day wage situation.

"Another thing, you don't make a lot of friends when you" state that you living the good life is beneficial to society because
it employs people in jobs that barely offer a sustenance wage.

There are a lot better ways to spend your money to help the less fortunate than buying a new car every year,
going on vacations, going shopping, and eating in restaurants.

How about, instead of spending $250 in one night on a expensive meal, spending $250 to feed 10 starving children for a whole month?

How about, instead of buying a new Mercedes this year, sponsor something a low-income-area school needs?

Instead of going on an expensive vacation, invest in a church community improvement project.

Then you will really be doing something positive for those who need the influx of capital
instead of just furthering conditions that prolong them being in a paycheck-to-paycheck rut.

We don't need more consuming, we need better solutions.

Less consuming, more improving.


I'm so glad someone's here to tell me what to do with my money. :rolleyes:

[Rhys]

Well, the way I see it, a libertarian society wouldn't exist in such pluralistic wealth patterns... one side being enormous in population and dirt poor in money.... the other side being a few people but having golden towers to the moon.

This is like a cleansing rain. If you're losing your ass.... where the fuck you been? We've been warning for like 2 years now that this would happen soon. If you're losing money, that's your fault.

I'm sad about all the suffering, but the suffering will be proportionate to the waste... so tough lucky charms kiddos.

I think this is balance being restored to the Tao of Wealth.

[Rhys]

I just went outside for a smoke and there was a small, hungry weak bee eating a big, fat bloated dead bee.... kinda symbolic huh?

[Mark]

I'm so glad someone's here to tell me what to do with my money. :rolleyes:

I didn't quote your post and respond to it, so I wasn't telling you anything. :rolleyes:

[Mark]

Well, the way I see it, a libertarian society wouldn't exist in such pluralistic wealth patterns... one side being enormous in population and dirt poor in money.... the other side being a few people but having golden towers to the moon.

This is like a cleansing rain. If you're losing your ass.... where the fuck you been? We've been warning for like 2 years now that this would happen soon. If you're losing money, that's your fault.

I'm sad about all the suffering, but the suffering will be proportionate to the waste... so tough lucky charms kiddos.

I think this is balance being restored to the Tao of Wealth.

+1776

And the more waste and misappropriation of wealth, the worse it's going to get.

[dawnbt]

Would someone please tell Mark that Star Trek was only a fictional TV series. :rolleyes:

lol!

[Mark]

lol!

http://newpressmedia.net/img/SNL_Trek.gif

[torchbearer]

12 steps of Horus, 12 disciples.
13 the number of perfect government. (13 being the chief corner stone, the pinacle)
6 steps of horus.
7 the number of perfect man. (the one above the 6.)

[Rhys]

http://newpressmedia.net/img/SNL_Trek.gif

hahahaha! I love star trek! Even though the Federation is commie bastards! You think the United Nations is bad? They have the United Federation of Planets, which you can't join until you've assembled a one world government.

[libertarian4321]

I'm so glad someone's here to tell me what to do with my money. :rolleyes:

I think he was telling me how to spend my money:), but I'm sure he'd be willing to tell you what to do too.

He seems to have a bit of an authoritarian streak in him...

[libertarian4321]

Well, the way I see it, a libertarian society wouldn't exist in such pluralistic wealth patterns... one side being enormous in population and dirt poor in money.... the other side being a few people but having golden towers to the moon.

This is like a cleansing rain. If you're losing your ass.... where the fuck you been? We've been warning for like 2 years now that this would happen soon. If you're losing money, that's your fault.

I'm sad about all the suffering, but the suffering will be proportionate to the waste... so tough lucky charms kiddos.

I think this is balance being restored to the Tao of Wealth.

Actually, in a libertarian society, without government constantly taking from the rich and giving to the poor, you'd probably still have vast disparities in wealth.

As I said before, in the long run, a tight money, crashing markets, and a weak economy will hurt the poor far more than it will hurt the rich.

No matter what the market does tomorrow, millionaires aren't going to worry about making house payments (because they own their homes), or paying off their debts (because they probably don't have any), or losing their jobs (they could live for decades without a job).

The bad stuff trickles down, and the ones at the bottom will get hurt the worst in the long run, and not just in the USA, but world wide. We are already seeing this stuff hit the industrialized nations. It will also hurt developing nations like China, because their markets will dry up. No one wins in a global economic downturn.

[Mark]

I think he was telling me how to spend my money:), but I'm sure he'd be willing to tell you what to do too.

He seems to have a bit of an authoritarian streak in him...

No, I was suggesting better ways to "help" "the poor" instead of buying a new car for yourself.

Like buying computers for a poor school.

But since I see that you prefer to let children suffer just because of the inadequacies of their parent(s), I find you to be a disgusting individual.

And how bloated an ego you must have to think that you have to explain to people what a weak economy will do
to those who don't have much to begin with.

Newsflash: We understand that already, but we also understand that to continue to waste resources will not solve our financial troubles,
a fact which seems to escape you.

Here's something else "religious" which should be easy to understand even for someone like you.

"Cast not your pearls before swine"

I'm now applying that in regards to our "conversation".

[libertarian4321]

[QUOTE]No, I was suggesting better ways to "help" "the poor" instead of buying a new car for yourself.

As usual, you completely miss the point. My original statement was about the wealthy in general. I never said anything about my vehicle (FYI, genius, I drive an 7 year old Chevy).


Like buying computers for a poor school.

I do that twice a year when I pay my property taxes. I don't know where you live, but even the worst city schools around here have lots of computers. I know, because I have volunteered with kids at several of them over the years mentoring in math, science and engineering. BTW, just throwing computers at kids isn't going to make them good students, but thats another topic.


But since I see that you prefer to let children suffer just because of the inadequacies of their parent(s), I find you to be a disgusting individual.

I find you to be an self-righteous, egotistical half-wit- but I was too classy to say so openly- well, until now, anyway.


And how bloated an ego you must have to think that you have to explain to people what a weak economy will do
to people who don't have much to begin with.

Well, you obviously didn't get it, so its safe to assume that others won't either. Remember, ~50% of the US population has an IQ of 100 or less, you aren't the only one...

[Rhys]

Actually, in a libertarian society, without government constantly taking from the rich and giving to the poor, you'd probably still have vast disparities in wealth.

As I said before, in the long run, a tight money, crashing markets, and a weak economy will hurt the poor far more than it will hurt the rich.

No matter what the market does tomorrow, millionaires aren't going to worry about making house payments (because they own their homes), or paying off their debts (because they probably don't have any), or losing their jobs (they could live for decades without a job).

The bad stuff trickles down, and the ones at the bottom will get hurt the worst in the long run, and not just in the USA, but world wide. We are already seeing this stuff hit the industrialized nations. It will also hurt developing nations like China, because their markets will dry up. No one wins in a global economic downturn.

This isn't a global economic downturn, it's a collapse of the dollar standard. The millionaires will have millions of dollars, but no purchasing power.

The free market shrunk the disparity between rich and poor. Was it Rothbard whom pointed out that in the old old days, rich had castles and chariots while the poor had huts and walked. Now, we all have cars and a decent place to live.

Unfortunately, the terrible money policy is socialist and has redistributed wealth to the top like a funnel. When this collapses, the rich and poor will be on a more even footing again. The free market will prevail.

Times will be tough, but I can't possibly fathom how stealing the resources from the poor through inflation will be of any service to them.

This, I hope, is the start of the meek inheriting the earth.... or at least, David at the walls of Jericho.

[libertarian4321]

This isn't a global economic downturn, it's a collapse of the dollar standard. The millionaires will have millions of dollars, but no purchasing power.



Unfortunately, its not limited to just the dollar. France and Belgium dumped $95 Billion in to save a large bank today (and Belgium had a smaller bank collapse yesterday). The Brits are doing the same (they have a housing value collapse problem of their own, as do other European nations, including Spain). Even smaller nations like Ireland are preparing "bail outs."

Also, lot of the mortgage backed securities that have been so problematic were bought by European and Asian banks and sold to their customers, so the US melt down is affecting much of the developed world.

There is a reason leaders of Germany, the Netherlands, and other European countries are desperately calling on the US Congress to pass the bail out bill- because they don't want to see a US economic collapse that would likely cause a global economic collapse. You can see the panic even in European and Asian financial markets- tanking in response to the failed bail out.

Even developing nations like China will be affected, because they not only invested in this stuff, but a US collapse means they lose their market (who's going to buy their manufactured goods if the US economy collapses?).

I don't know if the US economy will collapse or not, but if it does, its a pretty safe bet that we'll take most of the world down with us to one degree or another.