The DailyKos is making me lol

[xtravar]

Pro-government socialists are getting into serious arguments with each other... over whether to socialize our financial system.

Kos himself is ripping on Pelosi hard: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/29/10290/3764/65/614197

[xtravar]

And just as the socialists were getting comfortable supporting the bailout, their leaders started shilling for Republican votes. Oh yes, everyone's against this bailout... mostly for the wrong reasons, but that's OK. :cool:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/1/10453/2389/196/616108

[constituent]

kos is a hard-right-winger-reaganista in disguise.

have to give it to him on duping such a large crowd though.

::applause::

[ronpaulforprez2008]

Kos tried to work for the CIA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK6CinsGYC0

[constituent]

Kos tried to work for the CIA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK6CinsGYC0

yea... he interviewed w/ them for six months back in 2001, then at the end of the six months he decided that rather than work for the agency in d.c. he'd rather work on howard dean's 2004 pres. bid...

hey wait a sec., that doesn't add up

2001 + six months = 2004?

:confused::eek::o

[Kade]

kos is a hard-right-winger-reaganista in disguise.

have to give it to him on duping such a large crowd though.

::applause::

Kos is a fucking liberal.

[Kade]

Are you people this blind? Of course liberals are against this... if you had been listening to me the past year, you would know that you have combined two groups together that don't belong... you did this with the help of thought control, and media bias. You have not proven yourself above mob control.

Kos is not a conservative. He's a staunch liberal, like myself... listen to yourselves, you folks have lost it...

As a major contributor to Dailykos, I have been nothing if not honest with you folks about liberalism; Smirking Chimp, Dailykos, CrooksandLiars, those people represent liberalism, and I've never said anything different.

It is ridiculous to see people start to come so close to realizing this truth, and then stifle it with a "Kos is a secret conservative" nonsense.

No, he's not. Liberalism is open mindedness, it is progression, it is new thought, and the tolerance of old. It is pluralism, diversity, and understanding. It is not socialism, it is not Democrats, it is not Neo-con.

Liberalism is not big government. Get this through your thick skulls. Fourth post today. I go away for four days, and you guys revert right back to stupidity.

STFU.

[gjdavis60]

From the Kos discussion:

It is pretty fascinating to watch the fiscally conservative Republicans and the progressive Democrats pairing up for a different plan vs. the original tax funded/corporate bailout being pushed by our corrupt administration and our corporate-enabling, complicit congresscritters, Pelosi, Reid, etc. Is anyone taking names?

Perhaps the difference between us is that they believe big government can be made to work for the people and we believe it can't (I would argue that history is on our side, btw). And they call us idealists!

In any case, both sides appear to be coming to the common conclusion that our current government is broken and corrupt beyond repair. I hope they are calling and faxing as hard as we are.

[torchbearer]

STFU.

I'll take STFU for $100, Alex. :D

but yeh, I know what you are saying. I'm at the point of dropping the labels all together. We should be americans first and foremost. And I don't mean that in the happy days cliche way, I mean it in the - We are all getting fucked if we don't work together kind of way.

[itshappening]

Kos is CIA

but yes it is most amusing watching them crash like a program with an irreconcilable conflict when they see McCain, Bush and their hero Obama all supporting a bailout of Wall Street.

[tonesforjonesbones]

How is liberalism for small government? How are social programs limiting taxing the people...or stealing their hard earned money? Open mindedness? Yeah right...all these smears about Palin being "uneducated" ...all the smears about her family and her daughter getting pregnant out of wedlock. That's open minded? Get real. I'll never buy it. Liberals want a government nanny state...marxism..socialism, communism. You will never convince me otherwise....only if the ACTIONS of liberals take a HARD RIGHT TURN. TONES

[constituent]

Are you people this blind? Of course liberals are against this... if you had been listening to me the past year, you would know that you have combined two groups together that don't belong... you did this with the help of thought control, and media bias. You have not proven yourself above mob control.

Kos is not a conservative. He's a staunch liberal, like myself... listen to yourselves, you folks have lost it...

As a major contributor to Dailykos, I have been nothing if not honest with you folks about liberalism; Smirking Chimp, Dailykos, CrooksandLiars, those people represent liberalism, and I've never said anything different.

It is ridiculous to see people start to come so close to realizing this truth, and then stifle it with a "Kos is a secret conservative" nonsense.

No, he's not. Liberalism is open mindedness, it is progression, it is new thought, and the tolerance of old. It is pluralism, diversity, and understanding. It is not socialism, it is not Democrats, it is not Neo-con.

Liberalism is not big government. Get this through your thick skulls. Fourth post today. I go away for four days, and you guys revert right back to stupidity.

STFU.

meh, another useful idiot.

[constituent]

I'll never buy it. Liberals want a government nanny state...marxism..socialism, communism.

fascism, el salvador style.

(reckon kos might know a thing or two about that)

[constituent]

I'll take STFU for $100, Alex. :D


you'd be well served to lead by example. :D

[itshappening]

the socialists should stick to taking over their state... the problem is, they've taken over the federal government which should be limited in function

[xtravar]

Are you people this blind?

Why are you so grumpy? Statists ran away with the liberal label years ago. Wave goodbye, let it go.

[constituent]

Why are you so grumpy? Statists ran away with the liberal label years ago. Wave goodbye, let it go.

::thumbsup::

[RJB]

Kade,
I've always said this for the last few years. If I'm to apply a label to myself it would probably be a libertarian/conservative. However, I would gladly vote for an honest liberal like Kucinich over 90% of the "libertarian/conservative" republican leaders.

Unfortunately, there is about a 90% dishonesty rate among liberal politicians as well, who give liberals a bad name.

[Rhys]

Kade, I'm with torch on dropping labels, but not changing them......

the liberals you describe aren't liberals, they're libertarians. the definition of liberal is, socialist government for the benefit of the people. It is tolerant only so far as they are willing to be, but not in general.

[constituent]

Kade,
I've always said this for the last few years. If I'm to apply a label to myself it would probably be a libertarian/conservative. However, I would gladly vote for an honest liberal like Kucinich over 90% of the "libertarian/conservative" republican leaders.

Unfortunately, there is about a 90% dishonesty rate among liberal politicians as well, who give liberals a bad name.

they're all just names... but you have to admit it's quite funny seeing kade get wound up about it (and i like kade so don't get me wrong).

[constituent]

socialist government for the benefit of the people.

Socialist government is always for the benefit of the state... it's kinda like fighting for democracy in iraq, ya dig?

[Kade]

Kade, I'm with torch on dropping labels, but not changing them......

the liberals you describe aren't liberals, they're libertarians. the definition of liberal is, socialist government for the benefit of the people. It is tolerant only so far as they are willing to be, but not in general.

Show me where you got this definition from... show me an unbiased neutral source that says this...

[Kade]

How is liberalism for small government? How are social programs limiting taxing the people...or stealing their hard earned money? Open mindedness? Yeah right...all these smears about Palin being "uneducated" ...all the smears about her family and her daughter getting pregnant out of wedlock. That's open minded? Get real. I'll never buy it. Liberals want a government nanny state...marxism..socialism, communism. You will never convince me otherwise....only if the ACTIONS of liberals take a HARD RIGHT TURN. TONES

She is uneducated. Her daughter is pregnant out of wedlock.

?

[constituent]

Show me where you got this definition from... show me an unbiased neutral source that says this...

now kade, you know as well as i do that "libertarian" means what "you" want it to mean, just like "conservative" and just like "liberal."

[Kade]

now kade, you know as well as i do that "libertarian" means what "you" want it to mean, just like "conservative" and just like "liberal."

:(

[Conza88]

Kade won't ever let it go.

Studies really should be done about his neurosis..

[Kade]

Kade won't ever let it go.

Studies really should be done about his neurosis..

Liberal:

1a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism. d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States. 2a. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor. b. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes. 3. Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation. 4. Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education. 5a. Archaic Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman. b. Obsolete Morally unrestrained; licentious.

You folks seem mighty confident for a group of people who wallow in really poor assumptions. Get your head out of your asses. You are being manipulated.

[RJB]

they're all just names... but you have to admit it's quite funny seeing kade get wound up about it (and i like kade so don't get me wrong).

I agree with "just names." Really labels are what politicians give themselves to garner votes. Since most are liars they destroy the reputation of others.

Because of politicians destroying reputations of political labels in their corruption, we misjudge each other. I did misjudged Kade for a few months based on his own use of the word liberal, and of course his very charming personality:D

But yeah, I've come to like and appreciate Kade's input on this forum. It would be dull without him.

[constituent]

Show me where you got this definition from... show me an unbiased neutral source that says this...

straight from the horse's mouth:

Markos Moulitsas: The Case for the Libertarian Democrat (http://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/10/02/markos-moulitsas/the-case-for-the-libertarian-democrat/)

;):D

[constituent]

Get your head out of your asses. You are being manipulated.

lol man, you'll figure it out eventually.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Traditionally liberals want MORE government force and conservatives want LESS government force. TONES

[Kade]

Traditionally liberals want MORE government force and conservatives want LESS government force. TONES

That's funny. I could have swore that "Conservative" George Bush has reigned over the largest government this country has ever seen..

[constituent]

That's funny. I could have swore that "Conservative" George Bush has reigned over the largest government this country has ever seen..

sorry, but if we're going to stick to these kinda labels, i wanna let it be known that carter was twice the conservative g. dub ever pretended to be.

[freelance]

That's funny. I could have swore that "Conservative" George Bush has reigned over the largest government this country has ever seen..

Surely you don't expect anyone on here to believe that Bush is a conservative--oh, except when it comes to waving the flag for embryonic rights.

[Kade]

Surely you don't expect anyone on here to believe that Bush is a conservative--oh, except when it comes to waving the flag for embryonic rights.

You want me to believe that Clinton and Obama are liberals...right?

[freelance]

You want me to believe that Clinton and Obama are liberals...right?

I didn't say that. :eek:

[Kade]

straight from the horse's mouth:

Markos Moulitsas: The Case for the Libertarian Democrat (http://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/10/02/markos-moulitsas/the-case-for-the-libertarian-democrat/)

;):D

I posted that a year ago. That is EXACTLY what I am saying... you folks shot down the concept of a liberal libertarian a long time ago.. so we resort to using the word liberal.

You are forgetting I am a member of Dailykos. I know exactly what he is talking about... this was in essence, my point. Kos also knows liberal has been hijacked.

[constituent]

You want me to believe that Clinton and Obama are liberals...right?

i don't know... remind me again how much fed. money clinton pumped into local and state police forces.

remind me again of the explosive growth in non-violent "drug" "offenders" locked up during his admin.

isn't obama calling for some kinda youth narc-your-neighbor program?

sounds pretty liberal to me.

[constituent]

I posted that a year ago. That is EXACTLY what I am saying... you folks shot down the concept of a liberal libertarian a long time ago..

you folks?

lol kade, c'mon man.

[Conza88]

lol man, you'll figure it out eventually.

If only!! :rolleyes:

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well, why do you think people are aggrivated with Bush...he's looking too much like a liberal with his amnesty and crazed spending! He DID put forth tax breaks though. Bush pretty much got shut down by democrat filibustering on domestic issues. It's all about partisan politics these days...not creating solutions. The government is corrupt...it has been for at least 100 years when the communists came to the USA and infiltrated and took over. Tones

[Rhys]

Kade, distinction...

if liberals are open minded and tolerant, why must they use government to make people be the way they see fit?

if they were truly open minded and tolerant, they'd be libertarian...

liberalism=socialism=good intentions=bad results=big government

you have to use logical deduction, but it should be apparent to you after you do. One thing I've noticed though, the liberal/conservative argument can be summed up by human nature.... emotional artist types/rational science types

that's why i think "liberals" have a problem understanding libertarinaism... it requires being rational and logical to understand the point. Liberalism is emotional and easy to understand instantly with no reasoning, ie, "lets help poor people and if you don't want welfare type stuff, you're mean". The reasoning to understand the pitfall in these good intentions is very hard for creative-brain, emotional people.

[Ozwest]

Liberal . Democrat ?

For the past eight years somebody has been violating my anus.

And...

As a special reminder.

I'll be totally screwed.

Sweet sorrow...

[nbhadja]

Are you people this blind? Of course liberals are against this... if you had been listening to me the past year, you would know that you have combined two groups together that don't belong... you did this with the help of thought control, and media bias. You have not proven yourself above mob control.

Kos is not a conservative. He's a staunch liberal, like myself... listen to yourselves, you folks have lost it...

As a major contributor to Dailykos, I have been nothing if not honest with you folks about liberalism; Smirking Chimp, Dailykos, CrooksandLiars, those people represent liberalism, and I've never said anything different.

It is ridiculous to see people start to come so close to realizing this truth, and then stifle it with a "Kos is a secret conservative" nonsense.

No, he's not. Liberalism is open mindedness, it is progression, it is new thought, and the tolerance of old. It is pluralism, diversity, and understanding. It is not socialism, it is not Democrats, it is not Neo-con.

Liberalism is not big government. Get this through your thick skulls. Fourth post today. I go away for four days, and you guys revert right back to stupidity.

STFU.

Why is it that every liberal is for big government then?

[nbhadja]

Liberals are for big government. They want to steal your money and have the government use it. That is not open minded at all.

Now libertarianism is open minded.

[Ozwest]

Did it ever cross your mind that the mafiosa was elected 8 years ago?

[nbhadja]

Liberal:

1a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism. d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States. 2a. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor. b. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes. 3. Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation. 4. Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education. 5a. Archaic Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman. b. Obsolete Morally unrestrained; licentious.

You folks seem mighty confident for a group of people who wallow in really poor assumptions. Get your head out of your asses. You are being manipulated.

What are they giving??? Hmm could it be tax money they stole from certain citizens to give to other citizens??

[Ozwest]

Seriously.

Halliburton.

And as a parting wish...

A extra trillion.

[CUnknown]

Kade - if you remember me from some of the threads on global warming, you know that I am a liberal libertarian like you and I agree with you on most things you say.

However, I am not sure about this one. I think there is a big distinction to be made between certain groups in both the liberal and conservative camps. I think that labels can be useful, but only if we get the right ones. I suggest the following:

Neo-Conservative: We all know and use this one a lot. Bush is a good example. "Statist Conservative" or Fascist to me are synonyms.

Libertarian Conservative (or just "Libertarian"): We obviously know this one, these are anti-Statist, pro-individual conservatives. Ron Paul. Paleoconservative is probably a decent synonym.

Neo-Liberal: Not as well known, but Clinton is a good example. He's not true liberal, I mean, what sort of liberal guts welfare and balances the budget while breaking down international "free" trade barriers?

Statist Liberal: This would be "true" or "old-school" liberals like FDR who believe that State power should be used to help the people. People throw around the term "socialist" a lot on this forums, but it is most aptly used here, imo. Socialist would be an extreme Statist Liberal, perhaps.

Libertarian Liberal: Liberals who don't trust the State as much as Statist liberals and value freedom for the individual highly. They probably see more of a role for the State in daily life than do Libertarian Conservatives, but much less so than Statist Liberals. These people maybe also could be called "socialist", but only if you're comfortable with the term "libertarian socialist" as I'm sure most people here aren't.

Kade, it is my understanding that most people on DailyKos are "Statist Liberals", but honestly I don't go there much and don't really know what I'm talking about. If they like Obama a lot, I think it's hard to call them Libertarian Liberals, they'd probably be Statist or Neo-Liberal. Although, if there are a lot of Libertarian Liberals who like Obama, I think that goes to show what horrible shape our democracy is in that we don't have valid choices for these people...

[nbhadja]

"Neo-Liberal: Not as well known, but Clinton is a good example. He's not true liberal, I mean, what sort of liberal guts welfare and balances the budget while breaking down international "free" trade barriers?"

Oh he didn't balance the budgets, he just raided trust funds like Social Security for trillions of dollars.

[Ozwest]

Kade - if you remember me from some of the threads on global warming, you know that I am a liberal libertarian like you and I agree with you on most things you say.

However, I am not sure about this one. I think there is a big distinction to be made between certain groups in both the liberal and conservative camps. I think that labels can be useful, but only if we get the right ones. I suggest the following:

Neo-Conservative: We all know and use this one a lot. Bush is a good example. "Statist Conservative" or Fascist to me are synonyms.

Libertarian Conservative (or just "Libertarian"): We obviously know this one, these are anti-Statist, pro-individual conservatives. Ron Paul. Paleoconservative is probably a decent synonym.

Neo-Liberal: Not as well known, but Clinton is a good example. He's not true liberal, I mean, what sort of liberal guts welfare and balances the budget while breaking down international "free" trade barriers?

Statist Liberal: This would be "true" or "old-school" liberals like FDR who believe that State power should be used to help the people. People throw around the term "socialist" a lot on this forums, but it is most aptly used here, imo. Socialist would be an extreme Statist Liberal, perhaps.

Libertarian Liberal: Liberals who don't trust the State as much as Statist liberals and value freedom for the individual highly. They probably see more of a role for the State in daily life than do Libertarian Conservatives, but much less so than Statist Liberals. These people maybe also could be called "socialist", but only if you're comfortable with the term "libertarian socialist" as I'm sure most people here aren't.

Kade, it is my understanding that most people on DailyKos are "Statist Liberals", but honestly I don't go there much and don't really know what I'm talking about. If they like Obama a lot, I think it's hard to call them Libertarian Liberals, they'd probably be Statist or Neo-Liberal. Although, if there are a lot of Libertarian Liberals who like Obama, I think that goes to show what horrible shape our democracy is in that we don't have valid choices for these people...

Labels?

The American taxpayer has been royally fucked, and his children to"kingdom come."

You want lose your country in a "polite" way.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I like when DailyKos says nice things about Bob Barr.

[Ozwest]

Daily Cos is O.K.

Good place to have a debate.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I dispise the Daily Kooks. tones

[Ozwest]

I dispise the Daily Kooks. tones

I used to be a DEM.

I understand where they are coming from.

[Ozwest]

I'm a Libertarian.

I despise Republicans.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I used to be a DEM.

I understand where they are coming from.

I used to be a neonazi.

I understand where they are coming from.

[Ozwest]

They shitted on Ron Paul.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

They shitted on Ron Paul.

Why?

[Ozwest]

I used to be a neonazi.

I understand where they are coming from.

How clever.

[Ozwest]

Why?

Not why.

I followed Ron Paul from day one, and watched the Republican Party exclude him all through the primaries.

Don't pretend to teach me a lesson, cause I will unleash my unearthed vitriole upon others.

Grgghhh...

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Not why.

I followed Ron Paul from day one, and watched the Republican Party exclude him all through the primaries.

Don't pretend to teach me a lesson, cause I will unleash my unearthed vitriole upon others.

Grgghhh...

I was here.

[Ozwest]

So was I.

I barely slept.

[CUnknown]

I am still trying to think this stuff through myself. On second thought, Kade is probably right in that many Liberals on Daily Kos are at least potential allies to our cause. I've just been so frustrated with pro-Obama people lately, why aren't these "liberals" supporting Nader or McKinney?

I think that the Statist Liberals are potential allies of ours. Kucinich and Nader are probably halfway between a statist and libertarian liberals, and I definitely think they're allies. Neo-Liberals, on the other hand, are hopeless and are our enemies, imo.

It must be the partisanship that I am reacting against by disliking most people on DailyKos. How can they be so pro-Obama when he's not running on a platform they would approve of (they would disapprove in a political vacuum, anyway. They obviously approve in reality). And why do they hate Nader so much when he's championing everything they supposedly believe in? It just makes me angry.

[Ozwest]

I have an original copy of " An open Letter to the American People, posted to me in Australia.

Bumper stickers and even a "liberty tea bag " take pride of place here.

I donated a few grand. Not that that matters.

[Ozwest]

I am still trying to think this stuff through myself. On second thought, Kade is probably right in that many Liberals on Daily Kos are at least potential allies to our cause. I've just been so frustrated with pro-Obama people lately, why aren't these "liberals" supporting Nader or McKinney?

I think that the Statist Liberals are potential allies of ours. Kucinich and Nader are probably halfway between a statist and libertarian liberals, and I definitely think they're allies. Neo-Liberals, on the other hand, are hopeless and are our enemies, imo.

It must be the partisanship that I am reacting against by disliking most people on DailyKos. How can they be so pro-Obama when he's not running on a platform they would approve of (they would disapprove in a political vacuum, anyway. They obviously approve in reality). And why do they hate Nader so much when he's championing everything they supposedly believe in? It just makes me angry.

Libertarians and Democrats are closer than you think.

If you can get past gays and abortion, you can win 20% of them over.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Libertarians and Democrats are closer than you think.

If you can get past gays and abortion, you can win 20% of them over.

gay marriage - it's ok with me

abortion - sure. I don't care about other guy's fetuses lol

only time I'll oppose abortion is when it's MINE, otherwise, I don't give a flying fuck!!

[Kade]

Kade, distinction...

if liberals are open minded and tolerant, why must they use government to make people be the way they see fit?

if they were truly open minded and tolerant, they'd be libertarian...

liberalism=socialism=good intentions=bad results=big government

you have to use logical deduction, but it should be apparent to you after you do. One thing I've noticed though, the liberal/conservative argument can be summed up by human nature.... emotional artist types/rational science types

that's why i think "liberals" have a problem understanding libertarinaism... it requires being rational and logical to understand the point. Liberalism is emotional and easy to understand instantly with no reasoning, ie, "lets help poor people and if you don't want welfare type stuff, you're mean". The reasoning to understand the pitfall in these good intentions is very hard for creative-brain, emotional people.

That is your assumption and it is incorrect. You have to think outside the talking points of the people who have brainwashed you. Nowhere in liberal philosophy does it state that one must use the government to enforce anything on the people. If anything, liberty must be protected by the government, and that is it's only function. Liberals use books and art and culture to influence.

Libertarians are the descendants of Ayn Rand's Objectivism, although she herself rejected the philosophy. Today's libertarians are just the conservatives of the past. Liberals today are hidden amongst the rabble of the welfare statist and the neo-cons. They are the professors, the artists, the writers, the thinkers. They do not have a central voice, because of the destruction of liberalism with the extension of New Deal era socialism, and the use of it as a campaign slogan. You are all brainwashed. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you get the an ally.

[Kade]

Why is it that every liberal is for big government then?

What liberal is for big government?

You don't want me to call Bush a Conservative, right? Because he doesn't follow conservative principles, right?

Then why should I allow you to call any Democrat or other a liberal, if they indeed want a bigger government?

Liberals are anti-authoritarian.

[Ozwest]

gay marriage - it's ok with me

abortion - sure. I don't care about other guy's fetuses lol

only time I'll oppose abortion is when it's MINE, otherwise, I don't give a flying fuck!!

Then we are agreed...

Both parties are self interested wankers. :D

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Then we are agreed...

Both parties are self interested wankers. :D

ok. yeah. are you with me in regards to abortion and gay marriage? ;)

[Kade]

Liberals are for big government. They want to steal your money and have the government use it. That is not open minded at all.

Now libertarianism is open minded.

You are utterly brainwashed. This isn't an argument of semantics. You really don't seem to understand what liberalism is...

I don't care how many of you continue to promote this stupidity. You are wrong. That you cannot see this is not a flaw in my reasoning or my logic. It is a flaw in your ability to look and research yourself, that you have taken root in a movement who has abused you and twisted your own logic.

Liberals are anti-authoritarian, by definition. Some liberals have advocated for socialist reform, they still may be called liberals... liberalism does not reject socialism, but it does not mean it endorses it. Liberalism does not reject fiscal conservatism, but it does not endorse it.

Liberalism endorses free thought, free exchange of ideas, speech, religion, enterprise, and the protection of natural rights beyond that which is even written. Liberalism is progressive. It is open-minded, and it seeks to find solutions built around rational and new concepts and ideas.

This itself might be flawed. What liberalism is not, is anything that is spewed about by the likes of Hannity, Levin, Savage, Limbaugh, Coulter, and the rest of the fascist clowns in this country who have hijacked your once noble party.

Think for yourselves people. You have been brainwashed.

[Ozwest]

ok. yeah. are you with me in regards to abortion and gay marriage? ;)

I completely am against abortion. I'm a realist though. You can't legislate this.

Gays? Waste of breath.

Gays are some of the best people I know.

Knowing Gays will never get in the way of lace panties and breasts. No contest.

[CUnknown]

Kade, there's plenty of authoritarian liberals. Certainly not all by any stretch, but plenty. Just like there are authoritarian conservatives.

[Rhys]

I agree with you that liberals USED to be the way you say.... but the thing about this particular word is.... all the liberals you associate that definition to, are in todays language, called conservatives or libertarians.

You're using an old meaning. I understand what you mean now, you mean "classicaly liberal".

[nbhadja]

You are utterly brainwashed. This isn't an argument of semantics. You really don't seem to understand what liberalism is...

I don't care how many of you continue to promote this stupidity. You are wrong. That you cannot see this is not a flaw in my reasoning or my logic. It is a flaw in your ability to look and research yourself, that you have taken root in a movement who has abused you and twisted your own logic.

Liberals are anti-authoritarian, by definition. Some liberals have advocated for socialist reform, they still may be called liberals... liberalism does not reject socialism, but it does not mean it endorses it. Liberalism does not reject fiscal conservatism, but it does not endorse it.

Liberalism endorses free thought, free exchange of ideas, speech, religion, enterprise, and the protection of natural rights beyond that which is even written. Liberalism is progressive. It is open-minded, and it seeks to find solutions built around rational and new concepts and ideas.

This itself might be flawed. What liberalism is not, is anything that is spewed about by the likes of Hannity, Levin, Savage, Limbaugh, Coulter, and the rest of the fascist clowns in this country who have hijacked your once noble party.

Think for yourselves people. You have been brainwashed.

I have not been brainwashed, I know the current use of liberal does not fully explain the original definition for it but it is like that for most words

"It is open-minded, and it seeks to find solutions built around rational and new concepts and ideas. "

Seeking solutions to what and by using what? Government force?

Libertarians seek solutions by doing nothing and let the market solve itself.

[Ozwest]

George Bush was elected on the basis of gay people and abortion.

His base.

[constituent]

George Bush was elected on the basis of gay people and abortion.

His base.

gay egg scramblers?

[Ozwest]

gay egg scramblers?

Scrambles my brain. :confused:

[Kade]

Libertarians seek solutions by doing nothing and let the market solve itself.



A small mind at work.



Why do you desire power?

[Lord Xar]

No, he's not. Liberalism is open mindedness, it is progression, it is new thought, and the tolerance of old. It is pluralism, diversity, and understanding. It is not socialism, it is not Democrats, it is not Neo-con.

Liberalism is not big government. Get this through your thick skulls. Fourth post today. I go away for four days, and you guys revert right back to stupidity.

STFU.

Ignore the man in them monkey suite.

I am actually taken aback by total inability to be introspective. You don't play the flute and write mediocre poetry, do you?

[constituent]

You don't play the flute and write mediocre poetry, do you?

i think he plays the lute actually.

:D

[constituent]

Scrambles my brain. :confused:

gay people and abortion.

His base.


gay egg scramblers, only slightly less evil than Osama Been Hiden' (under the whitehouse)

[werdd]

You are utterly brainwashed. This isn't an argument of semantics. You really don't seem to understand what liberalism is...

I don't care how many of you continue to promote this stupidity. You are wrong. That you cannot see this is not a flaw in my reasoning or my logic. It is a flaw in your ability to look and research yourself, that you have taken root in a movement who has abused you and twisted your own logic.

Liberals are anti-authoritarian, by definition. Some liberals have advocated for socialist reform, they still may be called liberals... liberalism does not reject socialism, but it does not mean it endorses it. Liberalism does not reject fiscal conservatism, but it does not endorse it.

Liberalism endorses free thought, free exchange of ideas, speech, religion, enterprise, and the protection of natural rights beyond that which is even written. Liberalism is progressive. It is open-minded, and it seeks to find solutions built around rational and new concepts and ideas.

This itself might be flawed. What liberalism is not, is anything that is spewed about by the likes of Hannity, Levin, Savage, Limbaugh, Coulter, and the rest of the fascist clowns in this country who have hijacked your once noble party.

Think for yourselves people. You have been brainwashed.

Why should everyone adopt your definition?

Liberal means more, and in the case of goverment and politics, more goverment.

"Well it doesnt endorse more goverment, but at the same doesnt endorse more less goverment"

Thats a bunch of shit kade and you know it.

[jcarcinogen]

Are you people this blind? Of course liberals are against this... if you had been listening to me the past year, you would know that you have combined two groups together that don't belong... you did this with the help of thought control, and media bias. You have not proven yourself above mob control.

Kos is not a conservative. He's a staunch liberal, like myself... listen to yourselves, you folks have lost it...

As a major contributor to Dailykos, I have been nothing if not honest with you folks about liberalism; Smirking Chimp, Dailykos, CrooksandLiars, those people represent liberalism, and I've never said anything different.

It is ridiculous to see people start to come so close to realizing this truth, and then stifle it with a "Kos is a secret conservative" nonsense.

No, he's not. Liberalism is open mindedness, it is progression, it is new thought, and the tolerance of old. It is pluralism, diversity, and understanding. It is not socialism, it is not Democrats, it is not Neo-con.

Liberalism is not big government. Get this through your thick skulls. Fourth post today. I go away for four days, and you guys revert right back to stupidity.

STFU.

How is liberalism for small government? How are social programs limiting taxing the people...or stealing their hard earned money? Open mindedness? Yeah right...all these smears about Palin being "uneducated" ...all the smears about her family and her daughter getting pregnant out of wedlock. That's open minded? Get real. I'll never buy it. Liberals want a government nanny state...marxism..socialism, communism. You will never convince me otherwise....only if the ACTIONS of liberals take a HARD RIGHT TURN. TONES


Classical Liberalism http://mises.org/about/3225 You guys know the difference. Don't be fooled by their word play.
Individualism > Collectivism.

[nbhadja]

A small mind at work.



Why do you desire power?

How is that a small mind, that is the truth.

You never answered:
Seeking solutions to what and by using what? Government force?

[Ozwest]

gay people and abortion.

His base.


gay egg scramblers, only slightly less evil than Osama Been Hiden' (under the whitehouse)

Just when life was getting simple. You introduce these conundrums?

You are a evil egg scrambler.

[heavenlyboy34]

Liberals are for big government. They want to steal your money and have the government use it. That is not open minded at all.

Now libertarianism is open minded.MODERNT liberals are for big gov't. CLASSICAL liberals are not. I wish the language weren't so fucked up nowadays! :mad::rolleyes:

[Ozwest]

Please explain how voters aren't being played.

Two party system?

Sorry, looks to me like divide and conquer.

Keep up the good work though...

[Ozwest]

What next?

Moose hunter?

[Kade]

Ignore the man in them monkey suite.

I am actually taken aback by total inability to be introspective. You don't play the flute and write mediocre poetry, do you?

I can't play a note to save my life. My poetry can probably be improved, although, unlike most people, my work is published often.

I understand the need to chime in when you are feeling left out though, believe me, I understand, but I have always included you among the intellectual neophytes, worry not my cherished little Fredo.

[Kade]

Why should everyone adopt your definition?

Liberal means more, and in the case of goverment and politics, more goverment.

"Well it doesnt endorse more goverment, but at the same doesnt endorse more less goverment"

Thats a bunch of shit kade and you know it.

You spelled government wrong four times in this post. That's not a typo, that's moronic. Now, do you really want to resort to insults, because I have yet to place you in the "no holds" set of morons that I battle with daily. You are eminently close to being tossed in with them, and we can revisit your apparent problem with Goat Porn if we have to...

[Ozwest]

I can't play a note to save my life. My poetry can probably be improved, although, unlike most people, my work is published often.

I understand the need to chime in when you are feeling left out though, believe me, I understand, but I have always included you among the intellectual neophytes, worry not my cherished little Fredo.

How Bohemian.

[Kade]

How Bohemian.

Modern Chastushkan Industrialism.

[nbhadja]

Kade you still did not answer.

You said liberals solve problems with creative solutions.
What are those problems and how do they solve them?
Hmm maybe by more government??

[Kade]

Kade you still did not answer.

You said liberals solve problems with creative solutions.
What are those problems and how do they solve them?
Hmm maybe by more government??

No, right now the problem is too much government, as we see it. The solution is a counter-revolution, a revitalizing and restructuring of the media, the taking control of the new forms of communication, and fighting the perceptions people have about the government. To fight for and protect liberties, and to fighting economic tyranny. This is the most recent manifestation of liberalism.

If you haven't noticed... We have done most of this... Blending in, where we don't belong.

Sound familiar?

[Ozwest]

Modern Chastushkan Industrialism.

If it works for you.

My comment was tinged with irony.

Can't wait for your Chastushkan poetry reading at my favorite beat bar. :D

[tron paul]

Kos and the Kossaks have little to no use for neocon warmonger chickenhawk oligarch Pelosi. Only their hatred of Bush get them in line, rallying around the Donkey at election time.

It's the same with JimRob at FreeRepublic. Him and the Freepers hated McCain last month with undying passion. Now that a Paleo Palin bone has been thrown to them, they are drooling with pleasure to vote for McCain.

The CIA should pay both Kos and Jim well for doing such a great job of keeping us divided into two camps that bicker over colors (red v blue) and personalities (obama v palin) instead of issues (freedom vs authoritarianism).

[constituent]

The CIA should pay both Kos and Jim well for doing such a great job of keeping us divided into two camps that bicker over colors (red v blue) and personalities (obama v palin) instead of issues (freedom vs authoritarianism).

don't worry, they do.

[constituent]

If it works for you.

My comment was tinged with irony.

Can't wait for your Chastushkan poetry reading at my favorite beat bar. :D

interestingly enough, here in the atx, it's called "Ego's Bar"

lol, fitting.

[Ozwest]

interestingly enough, here in the atx, it's called "Ego's Bar"

lol, fitting.

Erase Jefferson Starship.

Immediately. :D

[SnappleLlama]

removed (wrong thread...ha ha!)

[constituent]

Erase Jefferson Starship.

Immediately. :D

for you oz, np.

[xtravar]

Oh no, my thread has turned into 3 pages of fail!

Maybe that's how the 3 page bailout bill turned into 300+ pages of fail?

[amy31416]

No, right now the problem is too much government, as we see it. The solution is a counter-revolution, a revitalizing and restructuring of the media, the taking control of the new forms of communication, and fighting the perceptions people have about the government. To fight for and protect liberties, and to fighting economic tyranny. This is the most recent manifestation of liberalism.

If you haven't noticed... We have done most of this... Blending in, where we don't belong.

Sound familiar?

I know you don't want to hear this, but I just had an argument over the past several days with a self-described liberal and he does want higher taxes and more government. His solution for problems? Take other people's money and run an incompetent government agency to try to fix them, thereby making the problem worse in the process.

He thinks I'm a racist because I don't like these incompetent government programs. The ironic thing is that I volunteer for literacy programs at the local library, and have for years. I don't think he's ever done anything like that, or even donate any money to humanitarian causes, which I've done plenty of times.

Guys like that are the ones who, unfortunately, end up defining the word "liberal" these days. So when you say "we" in your first sentence, I think "you and nobody else I've ever met, aside from some Libertarians."

If I had my way, liberal Libertarians would be the ones to create most social policy, conservative Libertarians would make the fiscal policy and they'd come together for foreign policy decisions. There's my little Utopia right there. I wonder if it would actually work reasonably well?

[Ozwest]

Sorry,

Didn't mean to challenge your Libertarian principles.

But...

Power carries responsibilities.

[Ozwest]

I know you don't want to hear this, but I just had an argument over the past several days with a self-described liberal and he does want higher taxes and more government. His solution for problems? Take other people's money and run an incompetent government agency to try to fix them, thereby making the problem worse in the process.

He thinks I'm a racist because I don't like these incompetent government programs. The ironic thing is that I volunteer for literacy programs at the local library, and have for years. I don't think he's ever done anything like that, or even donate any money to humanitarian causes, which I've done plenty of times.

Guys like that are the ones who, unfortunately, end up defining the word "liberal" these days. So when you say "we" in your first sentence, I think "you and nobody else I've ever met, aside from some Libertarians."

If I had my way, liberal Libertarians would be the ones to create most social policy, conservative Libertarians would make the fiscal policy and they'd come together for foreign policy decisions. There's my little Utopia right there. I wonder if it would actually work reasonably well?

Are you in love Amy?

[amy31416]

Are you in love Amy?

Uhh. Wha?

[Ozwest]

If I argued for several days with a woman off this forum.

I would be inspired!

[amy31416]

If I argued for several days with a woman off this forum.

I would be inspired!

Ahh, I see. And no, I'm definitely not in love. I actually ended up telling him to add me to the list of people who want absolutely nothing to do with him because of the racist bullshit.

[Ozwest]

O.k.

Didn't mean to be inappropriate.

I can't help it, I like girls.

[nbhadja]

No, right now the problem is too much government, as we see it. The solution is a counter-revolution, a revitalizing and restructuring of the media, the taking control of the new forms of communication, and fighting the perceptions people have about the government. To fight for and protect liberties, and to fighting economic tyranny. This is the most recent manifestation of liberalism.

If you haven't noticed... We have done most of this... Blending in, where we don't belong.

Sound familiar?

Once the evil central banks, politicians etc are toppled who would run the country? Primarily the people or the government?

The perceptions people have on government unfortunately are the problem. They think their version of big government never fails and blames it on some other version of big government. They are blind and cannot see that government is the problem.

[Conza88]

Here Kade goes again. :rolleyes: