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View Full Version : A few sections of the bill that scare me




matthylland
09-28-2008, 03:50 PM
Just as I skim through...I know very little of 'usual' wording of bills, so some of these may be false alarms on my part.

NOTE: this was initially going to be a small project of mine...now a couple hours later, this has become very long...I may take a break and add on to later...OR BETTER YET, add your own.



NECESSARY ACTIONS.—The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary
to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without
limitation, the following:
.
..
.
Designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Federal Government, and such institutions shall perform all such reasonable duties
related to this Act as financial agents of the Federal Government as may be required.

seems to me, at the flick of a finger the Secretary (Paulson, now) can make any financial company part of the national government...am I reading that wrong?
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page 10/106


(c) PREMIUMS.—

(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall collect
premiums from any financial institution participating in the program established under subsection
(a). Such premiums may be in amount that the Secretary determines necessary to meet the purposes of
this Act and to provide sufficient reserves pursuant
to paragraph (3).
No defined cost could be used against banks to make them pay too much. What worries me here is that the Secretary can ask for any amount of money to "insure" these assets, if they can not pay, then the "Necessary action" I quoted above could come into effect. In essence, small banks (which we know the Fed hates) can be forced to pay high costs, and if they can not afford to, they become nationalized.
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page 13/106


that nothing in this Act prevents the Secretary from protecting the retirement security of
Americans by purchasing troubled assets held by or
on behalf of an eligible retirement plan other than
a plan described in section 409A of the Internal
Revenue Code of 1986;
I can't find the section 409[A[ of the IR code, but what qualifies as a "eligible retirement plan" is what is to debate here. Can the secretary buy your 401K or IRA at any time. This could wipe out the savings of anyone if they are bought at a "low point" or after a crash.
--------------------------------------------------------------


STANDARDS REQUIRED.—The Secretary shall
issue regulations or guidelines necessary to address and
manage or to prohibit conflicts of interest that may arise
in connection with the administration and execution of the
authorities provided under this Act, including—
(1) conflicts arising in the selection or hiring of
contractors or advisors, including asset managers;
.
.
.
(5) any other potential conflict of interest, as
the Secretary deems necessary or appropriate in the
public interest.

The secretary can control who companies hire?..and of course the line "any other potential conflict" is always asking for abuse.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
page 44/106


(2) AUTHORITY.—In carrying out paragraph
(1), the Secretary shall—
(B) sell such assets at a price that the Secretary determines, based on available financial
analysis, will maximize return on investment for
the Federal Government.

nothing about the tax payer...profits of this will never be seen by the taxpayers
--------------------------------------------------------------
most of page 44 and 45 is pretty vague. The secretary can buy (and sell, which is said on p.48) any asset at a price he deems reasonable...
------------------------------------------------------
page 48/106


(F) SUFFICIENCY.—The financial institution shall guarantee to the Secretary that it has
authorized shares of nonvoting stock available
to fulfill its obligations under this subsection.
Should the financial institution not have sufficient authorized shares, including preferred
shares that may carry dividend rights equal to
a multiple number of common shares, the Secretary may, to the extent necessary, accept a
senior debt note in an amount, and on such
terms, as will compensate the Secretary equivalently, in the event that a sufficient shareholder
vote to authorize the necessary additional
shares cannot be obtained.

yikes, am I reading this right? The Secretary will be compensated, at whatever price he deems appropriate, including shares and preferred shares , for his services
---------------------------------------------------
page 54/106


(B) DEBATE.—Debate on the resolution,
and on all debatable motions and appeals in
connection therewith, shall be limited to not
more than 10 hours, which shall be divided
equally between those favoring and those opposing the resolution. A motion further to limit debate is in order and not debatable.


it is getting scarier as I go further into this section...with a simple motion can stop any debate.
-------------------------------------------------------------
page 65/106


SEC. 118. FUNDING.
For the purpose of the authorities granted in this
Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities,
the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States
Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued
under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including
the payment of administrative expenses.

It is pretty clear to me now that the taxpayer will not benefit from this, even if the assets increase in value.
---------------------------------------------------------------
page 67/106


(3) LIMITATION ON ACTIONS BY PARTICIPATING
COMPANIES.—No action or claims may be brought
against the Secretary by any person that divests its
assets with respect to its participation in a program
under this Act, except as provided in paragraph (1),
other than as expressly provided in a written contract with the Secretary.

If an institution participates in this program, they may not take any actions (like taking to court) against the Secretary.
----------------------------------------------------------------
page 76/106


SEC. 122. INCREASE IN STATUTORY LIMIT ON THE PUBLIC
DEBT.
Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United
States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting
‘‘$11,315,000,000,000’’.
yay more debt
---------------------------------------------------
page 83/106


(f) TERMINATION.—The Oversight Panel shall terminate 6 months after the termination date specified in section 120.

you may ask what section 120 is...well here it is:


TERMINATION.—The authorities provided under
sections 101(a) and 102 shall terminate on December 31, 2009.

no oversight after June 31 2010
----------------------------------------------
On page 98/106


SEC. 135. PRESERVATION OF AUTHORITY.
With the exception of section 131, nothing in this Act
may be construed to limit the authority of the Secretary
or the Board under any other provision of law.

speaks for itself
-----------------------------------------------------------
on page 100/106


(d) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.—There
are authorized to be appropriated such sums as may be
necessary to produce reports required by this section.


what makes me nervous about that line is all the stuff that comes before it in that section...it seems that the section listed allows for A LOT of money to be used. Such as employment of personal (with no pay regulations from what I see).
-------------------------------------------------
on page 103/106


(a) IN GENERAL.—For purposes of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, gain or loss from the sale or exchange of any applicable preferred stock by any applicable financial institution shall be treated as ordinary income or loss.

this might be nothing new...do financial institutions not pay capital gains tax on their investments? where is is instead taxed as income? This might just be my lack of understanding here
--------------------------------------


page 106/106
(e) REGULATORY AUTHORITY.—The Secretary of the
Treasury or the Secretary’s delegate may prescribe such
guidance, rules, or regulations as are necessary to carry
out the purposes of this section.

no limit of authority

you made it to the end of my analysis of my skim through of the bill...the Secretary is given amazing powers to control our financial system.

HOLLYWOOD
09-28-2008, 03:52 PM
Lets' see


Last Weekend the ACT was 3 pages... by Wednesday morning it was 42 pages, Friday it was 103 pages....

How many PAGES is it NOW?

matthylland
09-28-2008, 03:57 PM
lets' see


last weekend the act was 3 pages... By wednesday morning it was 42 pages, friday it was 103 pages....

How many pages is it now?

106

olehounddog
09-28-2008, 03:59 PM
They will own every thing after this. Our mortgages and our retirement. 1 stroke of the king's pen and we all have to redo our mortgage. oh, and we need to hold on to your retirement money. We'll give it back in a few years. Then you can retire.:mad:

matthylland
09-28-2008, 04:10 PM
They will own every thing after this. Our mortgages and our retirement. 1 stroke of the king's pen and we all have to redo our mortgage. oh, and we need to hold on to your retirement money. We'll give it back in a few years. Then you can retire.:mad:

It all depends on what is deemed an "eligible retirement account"...but I am willing to bet it is most things

matthylland
09-28-2008, 04:23 PM
bumping

olehounddog
09-28-2008, 04:27 PM
That can be changed after the senate vote, or by executive order.:mad:

ord33
09-28-2008, 04:38 PM
Good research so far! I have skimmed over a lot of it and definitely agree with the concerns of banks being "financial agents" of the government.

There is another fundamental thing I am directly against in the bill:

2) MODIFICATIONS.—In the case of a residential mortgage loan, modifications made under paragraph (1) may include—
(A) reduction in interest rates;
(B) reduction of loan principal; and
(C) other similar modifications.

Personally, I think it is completely unfair. Basically, they can reduce the mortgage rate, reduce the principal amount owed, increase term extensions, etc for people who made bad decisions in their housing purchase. If a person has a credit score of 600 they should pay a higher interest rate and they shouldnt be able to get an interest rate down toward the level of someone with an 800 credit score. And the reduction of principal amount owed, well that is just insane! This is TOTALLY unfair to those who are responsible and bought homes within their price range, have good credit, and make their payments. Lets say an individual has a mortgage of $250,000 on a home and is not making payments. The government through this bill reduces his principal down to $200,000 to be "within the affordability" of this person. Then, for instance a year from now he decides he wants to sell their home and are able to get $225,000 (or whatever greater amount for their home). There is absolutely no provision (that I could find) that keeps these home owners from profiting from their principal reduction - paid by you and me. That is incredibly unfair.

This is located on page 28 of the bill:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/pdf/index.htm

You already pointed out a lot of things that seem wrong, but there are several others as well:

Page 43 Section 112

SEC. 112. COORDINATION WITH FOREIGN AUTHORITIES AND CENTRAL BANKS.
The Secretary shall coordinate, as appropriate, with
foreign financial authorities and central banks to work to
ward the establishment of similar programs by such au
thorities and central banks. To the extent that such for
eign financial authorities or banks hold troubled assets as
a result of extending financing to financial institutions
that have failed or defaulted on such financing, such trou
bled assets qualify for purchase under section 101.

Page 91 Section 128 - Someone else had mentioned on these forums after researching this section that it accelerated a clause where the reserves held by financial institutions can be ZERO percent

SEC. 128. ACCELERATION OF EFFECTIVE DATE.
Section 203 of the Financial Services Regulatory Re
lief Act of 2006 (12 U.S.C. 461 note) is amended by strik
ing ‘‘October 1, 2011’’ and inserting ‘‘October 1, 2008’’.

This is referenced in several other places as well.

There was another section (which I cannot seem to find now) that states something along the lines that a minimum of 20% of the sales from the assets were to go to some sort of Federal Housing Program(s) and the remainder was to go into the general treasury to pay down the National Debt. Why not all of it to go to pay down the debt? I dont trust the government being able to allocate any of the money, but especially not to Housing Programs it has which would likely be misspent.

matthylland
09-28-2008, 05:01 PM
Ah, so the 0% fractional reserve is in there.

man...I just don't really know what to think right now.

Oyate
09-28-2008, 05:28 PM
Darn the file won't open for me. How do you folks know you are looking at the latest revision?

thehighwaymanq
09-28-2008, 05:37 PM
This is absurd.

I don't even know what to say anymore- we are so fucked.

matthylland
09-28-2008, 05:38 PM
Darn the file won't open for me. How do you folks know you are looking at the latest revision?

I am not certain this is the latest version...who knows what is going to be added/taken away at the last minute

thehighwaymanq
09-28-2008, 05:42 PM
Wait, doesn't that first part make us communist?


NECESSARY ACTIONS.—The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary
to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without
limitation, the following:
.
..
.
Designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Federal Government, and such institutions shall perform all such reasonable duties
related to this Act as financial agents of the Federal Government as may be required.

matthylland
09-28-2008, 05:44 PM
Wait, doesn't that first part make us communist?

I certainly believe so...

thehighwaymanq
09-28-2008, 05:49 PM
BUMP!

This is an excellant post!

Oyate
09-28-2008, 05:54 PM
I am not certain this is the latest version...who knows what is going to be added/taken away at the last minute

Yeah, what you guys are talking about sounds like it might the Dodd's first draft. I wanna see what's going to be voted on. I wonder if we'll ever get the chance.

PLEASE PM ME IF THE FINAL TEXT BECOMES AVAILABLE.

matthylland
09-28-2008, 05:59 PM
Yeah, what you guys are talking about sounds like it might the Dodd's first draft. I wanna see what's going to be voted on. I wonder if we'll ever get the chance.

PLEASE PM ME IF THE FINAL TEXT BECOMES AVAILABLE.

What I worry is that that won't be available until it comes off the presses for congress.

matthylland
09-28-2008, 06:01 PM
I email a few of these sections to my congresswomen and senators...
Hopefully they MIGHT read it before voting...or somehow get word of it

Oyate
09-28-2008, 06:55 PM
What I worry is that that won't be available until it comes off the presses for congress.

Yup. I'm asking around. So far nobody knows nothin'. It's the Patriot Act revisited.

Lovecraftian4Paul
09-28-2008, 06:56 PM
Most of this bill scares me. The rest just makes me rage.

BeFranklin
09-28-2008, 07:33 PM
This is crap. If this is a tempory measure, it doesn't need to be a 100 pags.

liberteebell
09-28-2008, 07:39 PM
This is crap. If this is a tempory measure, it doesn't need to be a 100 pags.

If you think this is temporary, I have some waterfront property I'll sell you...

Vote Waterman 2028
09-28-2008, 07:40 PM
i believe i heard on cnn that they put a copy of the bill on there website for everyone to view. The exact copy that will be on the floor for debate tomorrow morning.


********UPDATE: here is the bill that will be voted on tomorrow *******

LINK:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/28/ayo08c04_xml.pdf

luke-gr
09-28-2008, 08:00 PM
i believe i heard on cnn that they put a copy of the bill on there website for everyone to view. The exact copy that will be on the floor for debate tomorrow morning.


********UPDATE: here is the bill that will be voted on tomorrow *******

LINK:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/28/ayo08c04_xml.pdf

oh look, now it's 110 pages.

Matt, a big hats off to you. <salute> I wanted to take a look at this thing tonight but got home too late. Glad you skimmed it for us. I'll do some reading tomorrow but may be too late.

The 11.315 Trillion debt ceiling is cute.:rolleyes:

matthylland
09-28-2008, 08:15 PM
oh look, now it's 110 pages.

Matt, a big hats off to you. <salute> I wanted to take a look at this thing tonight but got home too late. Glad you skimmed it for us. I'll do some reading tomorrow but may be too late.

The 11.315 Trillion debt ceiling is cute.:rolleyes:

I don't have time, but I can only imagine what is on the 4 pages they added...

jabrownie
09-28-2008, 09:15 PM
As I look over this I see one of the scariest bills I have ever read. This is the destruction of our country.

matthylland
09-28-2008, 09:23 PM
As I look over this I see one of the scariest bills I have ever read. This is the destruction of our country.

Its like Federal Reserve Act round 2

jabrownie
09-28-2008, 09:29 PM
The sunset provisions aren't actually sunset provisions. They basically say that this statute will end when it ends. This thing is not a temporary measure, it's permanent.

See: pg. 17 Line 15 (Section 104(h)), for sunset of the oversight board, and pg. 21 Line 9 (Section 105(e)) for reporting requirements.

matthylland
09-28-2008, 11:10 PM
bumping before bed.

I read on another site that the vote is at 8am tomorrow morning...Don't know if it is true though.

matthylland
09-29-2008, 08:11 AM
Ok, vote around 1pm this afternoon...

One last push to call/sign wave/ anything else you deem necessary to stop this!