A question to the grass roots, PLEASE READ.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

This thread is not meant to be negative. I have noticed a trend and I want to get to the bottom of it.

Why have we lost the former fund raising power we once had? I imagine everyone has their own reasons. But I have noticed a serious drop off in how much money we put together for any effort nowadays. Gone are the days when we get even a million dollars together for any effort.

Do you fall into one or more of these categories? Or perhaps one of your own?

1. I just don't have the money anymore. (Or maybe never did)

2. I spent a lot of money on the campaign for Ron Paul and I didn't get any results, I cannot justify donating anymore at this time.

3. I don't donate anymore because I don't like the way my money was spent previously.

4. I will only donate money to Ron Paul himself.

5. I will only donate money to the C4L. Or C4L related projects.

6. I have come to mistrust the campaign, and perhaps the movement.

7. None of the above, but I will elaborate in my post?

I wish we could start an anon poll about this. But in the meantime I am interested to see why donations for freedom oriented projects have died off. Whether it be the moneybombs for various Ron Paul-like candidates, or other projects. It just seems that either the money, or the motivation, or both are just not there anymore.

[constituent]

almost number 6, and i'm willing to bet that's the case more often than not.

regardless of the outcome of this thread.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

Well my own answer is that I am running for office and spending my extra money on that. I probably will not win, but at least I know where my money is going and what it is doing.

[evilfunnystuff]

1. I just don't have the money anymore. (Or maybe never did)

[ItsTime]

It started to happen after the blimp. In my eyes and in many other peoples eyes it was the biggest failure in grassroots history. It showed how "future leaders of the freedom movement" would waste tons money and man hours on a project that did nothing to get Ron Paul elected, broke 100s of promises and mislead people.

[Kotin]

2. I spent a lot of money on the campaign for Ron Paul and I didn't get any results, I cannot justify donating anymore at this time.


and some 6 as well.

[freelance]

Perhaps because we have no interest in donating now that we've switched the focus to preparing for ourselves and our families. I believe that many here consider that task to be priority one.

I'm sure your intentions are good, so I'll spare you the rest of my rant on moneybombs while the Titanic is sinking.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

So far I am getting the answers I thought I would.

[Dorfsmith]

1. I just don't have the money anymore. (Or maybe never did)

I can hardly afford to pay my bills let alone have extra money to use for causes. :(

[olehounddog]

1 and I'm am a lot more active in local events which costs me more.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

Perhaps because we have no interest in donating now that we've switched the focus to preparing for ourselves and our families. I believe that many here consider that task to be priority one.

I'm sure your intentions are good, so I'll spare you the rest of my rant on moneybombs while the Titanic is sinking.


No, please share. My intentions are to get a tactical assessment of how much hope we can ever expect to get out of the Ron Paul grassroots ever again. And if we can't then we need to look to other options.

[nate895]

I am an oddball, I know, my family has actually donated more since RP, but then again we only donated $50 at the time and my mom was in the hospital, so that's where a lot of that money went.

[tropicangela]

1. I just don't have the money anymore. (Or maybe never did)

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

1. I just don't have the money anymore. (Or maybe never did)

I can hardly afford to pay my bills let alone have extra money to use for causes. :(

Something else just occured to me. The more they destroy the economy, the more number 1s we will see. Pretty soon only those who were fourtunate enough to be safe from the economic collapse will have any political say at all.

I am starting to think that allowing campaigns to be funded privately is a mistake. People are BUYING our government. And that allows them to prevent us from doing the same.

[angelatc]

This thread is not meant to be negative. I have noticed a trend and I want to get to the bottom of it.

Why have we lost the former fund raising power we once had? I imagine everyone has their own reasons. But I have noticed a serious drop off in how much money we put together for any effort nowadays. Gone are the days when we get even a million dollars together for any effort.

Do you fall into one or more of these categories? Or perhaps one of your own?

1. I just don't have the money anymore. (Or maybe never did)

2. I spent a lot of money on the campaign for Ron Paul and I didn't get any results, I cannot justify donating anymore at this time.

3. I don't donate anymore because I don't like the way my money was spent previously.

4. I will only donate money to Ron Paul himself.

5. I will only donate money to the C4L. Or C4L related projects.

6. I have come to mistrust the campaign, and perhaps the movement.

7. None of the above, but I will elaborate in my post?

I wish we could start an anon poll about this. But in the meantime I am interested to see why donations for freedom oriented projects have died off. Whether it be the moneybombs for various Ron Paul-like candidates, or other projects. It just seems that either the money, or the motivation, or both are just not there anymore.


personally, I get turned off when candidates don't even bother sending thank you notes or emails for my donations.

Hint.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

personally, I get turned off when candidates don't even bother sending thank you notes or emails for my donations.

Hint.

Hmm.... Good point. I think I will go through my own records and do that.

[evilfunnystuff]

Hmm.... Good point. I think I will go through my own records and do that.

also adding a little info on what the money has been/will be spent on helps people feel their donations were put to good use

[nate895]

personally, I get turned off when candidates don't even bother sending thank you notes or emails for my donations.

Hint.

If I run in 2010, I'll make sure to do that. Why wouldn't candidates do that? It's not like you owe them your money.

[thehighwaymanq]

I don't any money to donate.

But question: When the C4L reveals all the new stuff- is there going to be like state headquaters and stuff? Because I would love to donate my time to volunteer and stuff other than donate.

And there are probably a lot of other young people who don't have money but has the time and energy to go out and do stuff.

[freelance]

No, please share. My intentions are to get a tactical assessment of how much hope we can ever expect to get out of the Ron Paul grassroots ever again. And if we can't then we need to look to other options.

Okay, but you asked.

I think to myself, "Who ARE these people who think that any moneybomb can make any difference at this late date? Do they really understand that things are going to get so bad that we cannot even imagine what life is going to look like? Have they prepared for themselves and their families? Have they already done their due diligence and moved their USD to save havens? Have they thought long and hard about whether they will stay or leave? If they're staying, have they bought guns, ammo, and trained family members in gun safety? Have they secured their premises? If they have decided to leave, is their plan ready to implement on a moment's notice, because we may not have more than a couple of days to get out? Where are they getting the time to do all this and still have time to even think about moneybombs?"

And then, I realize that they have probably done some, but not all of the above, which leads me to think, "WHAT IN THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING--MONEYBOMBS?" And I'm not LOLing, because some of them have kids who cannot make preparations. Otherwise, I would laugh myself silly, like it was some kind of SNL vignette--planning moneybombs while the Titanic is sinking. Hell, why not lease another blimp?

I really don't mean to be harsh. I think that this response is merely Pavlovian after the countless all-nighters I've pulled getting my ducks in a row, and I'm not even finished. There are a few things that have to wait until tomorrow, but by COB tomorrow, I should have most of the loose ends tied up--the ones that matter. Of course, it MAY be too late tomorrow, but I've danced as fast as I possible could. Some things require responses from other, because I am not the only one seeking their counsel right now.

And, if I've wasted my time with all the preparation, I will THANK GOD that the worst did not happen. Get back to me on a moneybomb then. ;-)

In the meantime, best of luck.

[IHaveaDream]

I donated generously to several money bombs. I just can't see where I got a decent return on my investment. To be brutally honest about this, I feel a little betrayed by Ron Paul. He got into the race and led us to believe that he was an option we could support, but then he refused to aggressively seek the nomination for his party. He's was then encouraged to run as a third party candidate. He refused. He was offered a VP slot. He refused. Even after publicly endorsing Chuck Baldwin, I've yet to see him play an active role in campaigning for the guy. I judt don't understand why Ron Paul accepted the call to enter the spotlight and now seeks refuge in the shadows when our nation needs him most.

I never sacrificed for a political candidate the way I did for Dr. Paul. There's no one even in the debate now but Obama or McCain and the grassroots has become a house divided between Barr, Baldwin, Nader, and McKinney. Is this what all sacrifice was for?

Ron Paul, in my heart, you'll always be the best candidate we never had.

[constituent]

I never sacrificed for a political candidate the way I did for Dr. Paul. There's no one even in the debate now but Obama or McCain and the grassroots has become a house divided between Barr, Baldwin, Nader, and McKinney. Is this what all sacrifice was for?


until the elections are over...

psssst, don't tell anybody, but there are folks here who actually think the elections matter.

[pacelli]

1. I just don't have the money anymore. (Or maybe never did)

2. I spent a lot of money on the campaign for Ron Paul and I didn't get any results, I cannot justify donating anymore at this time.


I just don't have the money anymore, because I spent it all on both campaigns for Ron Paul.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

personally, I get turned off when candidates don't even bother sending thank you notes or emails for my donations.

Hint.

Done.

[Oyate]

1. I just don't have the money anymore. (Or maybe never did)

I've been an activist for years but never drove so hard as I've been since the past 3 years. That was when we were promoting Aaron Russo's movie. Then we really kicked it into high gear for Ron Paul.

I'm spent out and my business has suffered measurably. Going into the economic chaos, I'll echo the thoughts of many on the boards: I gotta focus on my family. I'm not sorry I did what I did although the wife and kids think I'm crazy. So yeah, until further notice, politics ain't gonna see a penny from me. It doesn't mean I'm deactivating, it's doesn't mean we're not or can't still be effective as a movement but moneybombs are dead.

[TastyWheat]

#1. I'm in a pretty shitty job right now and the rate of inflation isn't helping my financial situation at all.

[angelatc]

Done.

:)

Really, you should do that for every donation. Create a mailing list too, and periodically hit them up for more money.

That's exactly how Ron Paul raises so much money.

[Pete]

I gave til it hurt to RP's campaign, because he had a chance to win up until the January press blackout. I have donated to B.J. Lawson's campaign (twice), and gave a LOT of money to Robert Owens (Ohio AG). So I am still donating, but viability of the campaigns has a lot to do with it. This late in the game, I don't see much point in donating a lot to Chuck Baldwin, but I will vote for him and likely donate a little to help defray his expenses.

C4L is getting my full support, which is not monetary at this time.

[LibertyEagle]

For me, I want to see a cohesive, workable, strategy put forth, before I donate to an effort. I donated a ton of money to the campaign and to associated projects and I just don't have the money to throw around anymore, unless I see a well thought out, strategic initiative.

The fact that we are "cats" and don't like to be herded, has its good points and its bad. The bad parts are that we almost refuse to organize and create cohesive strategies. Preferring instead, in most cases, to run around like chickens with our heads cut off, taking lots of action, but not getting any real results. If we're going to have an impact, it's my opinion, that we are going to have to go against our grains and start strategizing.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

You know what.... I think I am going to put together a plan.

People can get behind it or not. But I see what LibertyEagle means.

[angelatc]

LE is exactly right. That's pretty much why the Libertarian party hasn't gone anywhere, IMHO.

[MsDoodahs]

JMO, YMMV:

Allow the inmates to run the asylum, allow constant attacks on those attempting to do something they see as positive, allow bashing of those who don't agree with one line of thinking, proclaim how much you hate older people constantly....

You lose lots of people that way. They don't announce their departure. They just ... go ... and never come back.

Next time you try to fundraise, you notice your banners aren't popping up all over the net on websites far and wide....because those websites were run by those who left here long ago. Then you discover the money no longer rolls in.

See, those who quietly left this place .... took their disposable cash with them.

[Austin]

1. I just don't have the money anymore. (Or maybe never did)

2. I spent a lot of money on the campaign for Ron Paul and I didn't get any results, I cannot justify donating anymore at this time.

3. I don't donate anymore because I don't like the way my money was spent previously.

4. I will only donate money to Ron Paul himself.

5. I will only donate money to the C4L. Or C4L related projects.

6. I have come to mistrust the campaign, and perhaps the movement.

7. None of the above, but I will elaborate in my post?

[freelance]

JMO, YMMV:

Allow the inmates to run the asylum, allow constant attacks on those attempting to do something they see as positive, allow bashing of those who don't agree with one line of thinking, proclaim how much you hate older people constantly....

You lose lots of people that way. They don't announce their departure. They just ... go ... and never come back.

Next time you try to fundraise, you notice your banners aren't popping up all over the net on websites far and wide....because those websites were run by those who left here long ago. Then you discover the money no longer rolls in.

See, those who quietly left this place .... took their disposable cash with them.

Very good point. I didn't go. Now, I just speak my demented mind. It's over. No point in being on my best behavior anymore. :D

[NewEnd]

It started to happen after the blimp. In my eyes and in many other peoples eyes it was the biggest failure in grassroots history. It showed how "future leaders of the freedom movement" would waste tons money and man hours on a project that did nothing to get Ron Paul elected, broke 100s of promises and mislead people.

It has nothing ot do with the blimp, and everythign to do with nobody wants to donate money to a losing cause. Things went downhill after the first few elections made it abundantly clear Ron Paul would not be getting anywhere near 30% in any elections

(yes, I am aware he did in some later ones)

[reduen]

It started to happen after the blimp. In my eyes and in many other peoples eyes it was the biggest failure in grassroots history. It showed how "future leaders of the freedom movement" would waste tons money and man hours on a project that did nothing to get Ron Paul elected, broke 100s of promises and mislead people.

Blimp...

[ShowMeLiberty]

1. I just don't have the money anymore. (Or maybe never did)

I also agree with the things LE and MsDoodahs said.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

For me, I want to see a cohesive, workable, strategy put forth, before I donate to an effort. I donated a ton of money to the campaign and to associated projects and I just don't have the money to throw around anymore, unless I see a well thought out, strategic initiative.

The fact that we are "cats" and don't like to be herded, has its good points and its bad. The bad parts are that we almost refuse to organize and create cohesive strategies. Preferring instead, in most cases, to run around like chickens with our heads cut off, taking lots of action, but not getting any real results. If we're going to have an impact, it's my opinion, that we are going to have to go against our grains and start strategizing.

My plan.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=158998

[reduen]

It has nothing ot do with the blimp, and everythign to do with nobody wants to donate money to a losing cause. Things went downhill after the first few elections made it abundantly clear Ron Paul would not be getting anywhere near 30% in any elections

(yes, I am aware he did in some later ones)

Wrong, the blimp did it for me also.

It made me realize that we now live in a day that people are no longer willing to give their fortunes and livelihood for the cause (like the founders) but they are more than willing to try and make a living off of a cause or movement to fight for liberty.I like so many had sacrificed so much up to that point for the cause.

Now you may not agree with me but it does not change the fact that the blimp effort and the way they went about it turned me off.. (I bet I am not alone on this.)

[ItsTime]

Wrong, the blimp did it for me also.

It made me realize that we now live in a day that people are no longer willing to give their fortunes and livelihood for the cause (like the founders) but they are more than willing to try and make a living off of a cause or movement to fight for liberty.I like so many had sacrificed so much up to that point for the cause.

Now you may not agree with me but it does not change the fact that the blimp effort and the way they went about it turned me off.. (I bet I am not alone on this.)

You are not alone. It has even turned off some people who WORKED on the blimp project.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

This conversation reveals a lot of what I was already suspecting.

Keep the comments coming people. I think we are getting to the real issue here.

[angelatc]

See, those who quietly left this place .... took their disposable cash with them.

I think 90% of the people who left this place aren't a significant percentage of the people who were actually doing the work. I don't know about your area, but I was the only person who consistently posted in RPF.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

Yeah, but I can't poll the whole populace. I wish I could.

[NewEnd]

Wrong, the blimp did it for me also.

It made me realize that we now live in a day that people are no longer willing to give their fortunes and livelihood for the cause (like the founders) but they are more than willing to try and make a living off of a cause or movement to fight for liberty.I like so many had sacrificed so much up to that point for the cause.

Now you may not agree with me but it does not change the fact that the blimp effort and the way they went about it turned me off.. (I bet I am not alone on this.)

You seem real turned off...

:rolleyes:

And lets be realistic, everything went downhill after election losses. Thats the way any primary campaign works, this one wasn't any different.

[CAKochenash]

IMO...we are about to experience a financial crisis 10 times the size of the 20's...

Sorry man....I need guns, food, and water...

[jabrownie]

Too many stories throughout the campaign about people wanting to interview Dr. Paul, write stories etc., but the campaign wouldn't respond. I remember some of them coming on here, literally begging us to petition the campaign so the media could get access to him. I've heard lots of stories about Dr. Paul refusing to campaign on a lot of the weekends, instead opting to head back to Texas. Heard about how it was like pulling teeth to get him to record television ads, that's part of why there almost weren't any, even though the cash was coming in. I remember after the primaries seeing a website that listed every appearance held by every candidate and noticing that in many months Dr. Paul would have done a half dozen compared to 40 done by romney, mccain or huckabee. And now I have no clue where we're being led; one day it seems pro libertarian, the next, vote for any third party, the next it's go baldwin. This is especially frustrating when there's a basic theme that could be put up that would unite everyone: Toss the bums out, vote against every incombent in every race, be they democrat or republican, and for president since there is no incombent, vote third party. Bam. Suddenly something everyone can agree to and promote. I'd donate for such a cause, I think a lot of others would too, but alas....no word from Dr. Paul. While I realize he's probably tired and got a lot on his plate, with the hurricane, his wife, and now this bailout; whether he likes it or not, he is a national leader now...I need him to step up and lead as though he were running for something, not just the occasional statement every now and again. But eh, even if he doesn't, I still love the guy.

[Neil Kiernan Stephenson]

The Baldwin endorsement has sounded the death knell of the movement for a lot of people.

We cannot tolerate bigotry in a movement for freedom.


But that's an issue being dealt with in a lot of other threads.

I was curious why the money is not there anymore, and it is clear that the reasons are there.

I suspect that there are a lot of other people who feel this way who are not speaking out.