Republicans want the bill to include suspension of Capital Gains tax

[socialize_me]

YEAAAAH BABY!!! Seriously, the capital gains tax is probably the most anti-free market tax out there after the income tax. Congress actually penalizes investment...it's a shame the Democrats are saying hell no to this...

Some form of bailout will be passed...not that I'm a fan on it, it would be great to get a capital gains tax reduction/elimination :)

[Goldwater64]

No, no, no...suspending the capital gains tax is actually a real, measurable solid gain free marketers can take from this. It would be an actual result for our cause! It would be one of the biggest free market victories of the last 20 years!

We aren't about results on here son! We are about blimps, sign waves and preparing for the coming apocoplypse!

[Mortikhi]

woo, get rid of that and ill be selling all my stocks!

[Oyate]

No, no, no...suspending the capital gains tax is actually a real, measurable solid gain free marketers can take from this. It would be an actual result for our cause! It would be one of the biggest free market victories of the last 20 years!

We aren't about results on here son! We are about blimps, sign waves and preparing for the coming apocoplypse!

Right. What a take away for free marketeers. Let's enumerate these great benefits:

1. We still get a massive expansion of government, Fed and judicial power in the deal (yeah, didn't hear about the judiciary getting a bump did you?)

2. This "dividend" they talk about so "taxpayers get ownership" is actually going to be held by.......oh take a guess........the FDIC! Why yes, this is to secure.......come on, you can do it.......all the bad debt we're buying. We'll never see a penny of "dividend" in our pockets.

3. Still no caps, no limits. $700B is JUST THE BEGINNING and everybody knows is. Except for some posters on certain boards....

4. Proposed tax relief is for the investment class--JUST ANOTHER FORM OF BAILOUT.

YOU GUYS GOT SUCKERED INTO THE LESSER OF EVILS ARGUMENT.

[Kotin]

yeah also.. the assholes upstairs will sweet talk you with this and then reinstitute that tax so fast ben bernanke wont be able to sit down for a week.



do you honestly trust them to abolish it for good?



LOL!!!!

[ItsTime]

So..... sell our future to get rid of a tax TEMPORARILY?

[Goldwater64]

Right. What a take away for free marketeers. Let's enumerate these great benefits:



4. Proposed tax relief is for the investment class--JUST ANOTHER FORM OF BAILOUT.

.


Nice use of class warfare comrade!

[Oyate]

Get it right people. The only bailout plan that's constitutionally acceptable, the only plan that makes sense from the Austrian, the ONLY plan that reduces Federal (and reservist) control of our lives is NOTHING. DO NOTHING. LET THEM FAIL, LET PRICES CORRECT, LET RATES BE DETERMINED BY THE MARKET.

Anything else is pure bad news. Well, almost pure. As a previous poster mentioned, it does create temporary opportunity for the investment class.

Bully for you guys. Have a picnic.

[Oyate]

Nice use of class warfare comrade!

Perhaps. But I'm obsolete. You are cheering for the new socialism: profits are privatized, losses are socialized. Seig Heil bro!

[Sarge]

The Republicans are starting to cave based on what Nancy and Barney were saying.

Unless I am going deaf, I swear I heard Nancy say there would be no details on the plan until it was approved and signed by the President. Yup do it in secret.

If there is no role call vote, I will assume all but a few we know backed the plan.

Just dream on if you think they would eliminate capital gains taxes very long.

I agree no bailout period. Anyone that thinks they are going to get any free lunch out of this mess are dreaming. They might give it one way, but will take it away somewhere else. Just bet that one.

They will just do it when there is not so much visibility as there is right now.

[Goldwater64]

Perhaps. But I'm obsolete. You are cheering for the new socialism: profits are privatized, losses are socialized. Seig Heil bro!

Clever use of the word obsolete.

And no, I think the bailout, and new socialism, are very bad ...but the bail out is gonna happen. And the house repubs are forcing their hand and getting something for it. There are basically two choices:

1. Bail out and a few house repubs and house dems are bribed over with local pork
2. Bail out and a massive amount of house repubs are bribed over with the capital gains tax cut for two years.

Um, I'll take option 2.

Politics is the art of the possible.

[MsDoodahs]

4. Proposed tax relief is for the investment class--JUST ANOTHER FORM OF BAILOUT.




Wrong. ANY tax reduction is a great thing, PERIOD.

You're the one who's been suckered.

[MsDoodahs]

Get it right people. The only bailout plan that's constitutionally acceptable, the only plan that makes sense from the Austrian, the ONLY plan that reduces Federal (and reservist) control of our lives is NOTHING. DO NOTHING. LET THEM FAIL, LET PRICES CORRECT, LET RATES BE DETERMINED BY THE MARKET.

Anything else is pure bad news. Well, almost pure. As a previous poster mentioned, it does create temporary opportunity for the investment class.

Bully for you guys. Have a picnic.

Your envy is showing.

:rolleyes:

[Oyate]

Wrong. ANY tax reduction is a great thing, PERIOD.

You're the one who's been suckered.

Sorry I just can't accept that when

1. The entire thing vastly accelerates the inflationary process which hurts those who can't afford to invest the most: working poor, elderly on fixed incomes and come to think of it, everybody hurt by deregulation of the financial industry.

2. The entire burden is still shifted to the US tax payer (read the proposal carefully, it's a shell-game).

3. The rich criminals to perpetrated this whole mess are REWARDED.

So sorry, something the government steals from me to give to you is not a great thing in my book. Something that rewards evil excess and punishes prudence and humility is not a good thing. PERIOD.

[Goldwater64]

Sorry I just can't accept that when

Something that rewards evil excess and punishes prudence and humility is not a good thing. PERIOD.

WOW!!!. Three words: "Nader or McKinney?"

[BarryDonegan]

if they remove the capital gains tax, gold will SHOOT THROUGH THE ROOF. this will basically "legalize" the gold standard for those of us who are austrian fans.

we can go ahead and horde up all the valuables we want that are NOT CASH!!!!

[Oyate]

if they remove the capital gains tax, gold will SHOOT THROUGH THE ROOF. this will basically "legalize" the gold standard for those of us who are austrian fans.

we can go ahead and horde up all the valuables we want that are NOT CASH!!!!

Interesting point....I don't think it applies to the survival investor but you have a point for the financial investor.

Survival investors will pay $0 capitol gains (if they acquired wisely) because they take the value back in direct exchange for tangible goods.

As to other valuables that are not gold, we'll continue to see commodity prices rise as inflation and devaluation continue to take their toll so.....buy now buddy. This ride is gonna be short.

[MsDoodahs]

Sorry I just can't accept that when

1. The entire thing vastly accelerates the inflationary process which hurts those who can't afford to invest the most: working poor, elderly on fixed incomes and come to think of it, everybody hurt by deregulation of the financial industry.

2. The entire burden is still shifted to the US tax payer (read the proposal carefully, it's a shell-game).

3. The rich criminals to perpetrated this whole mess are REWARDED.

So sorry, something the government steals from me to give to you is not a great thing in my book. Something that rewards evil excess and punishes prudence and humility is not a good thing. PERIOD.

I'm not arguing about the bailout - it is awful.

ANY tax going away is good.

That said, it's dangerous to envy those who have more than you.

It's a bad thing and the reason why soooo many applaud socialism: they want ANYTHING that hurts those they envy (those who have more than they do).

They're willing to suffer themselves - if only it means those who they envy have to suffer as well.

[Oyate]

That said, it's dangerous to envy those who have more than you.

It's a bad thing and the reason why soooo many applaud socialism: they want ANYTHING that hurts those they envy (those who have more than they do).


I am certainly no socialist and I'm too well prepared for coming times to envy many. And I hope you don't mean to imply that I'm a socialist for points I've made. Not when we're staring socialism for the rich so blindly in the face.

And you know it, this whole bailout (or rescue if you must) package is so hurtful to America and to our children's future, and I don't applaud it one bit. As I think you can tell.

At best, we won a concession. And we made a great stride in galvanizing public action (that was the biggest phone/fax blast ever) and a LOT more people are starting to get our true message.

[Oyate]

Put it this way: if I gave you a cookie and then beat you severely about the head and torso with a blunt instrument, would you say:

1. You have just committed a violent crime and should be subject to law.

-OR-

2. Thanks for the cookie.

?????

[MsDoodahs]

I am certainly no socialist and I'm too well prepared for coming times to envy many.

From your comments, it appears you envy the investor class. That is not uncommon.

Mises wrote about it.



And I hope you don't mean to imply that I'm a socialist for points I've made. Not when we're staring socialism for the rich so blindly in the face.

And you know it, this whole bailout (or rescue if you must) package is so hurtful to America and to our children's future, and I don't applaud it one bit. As I think you can tell.

At best, we won a concession. And we made a great stride in galvanizing public action (that was the biggest phone/fax blast ever) and a LOT more people are starting to get our true message.

I don't want the bailout AT ALL. Under ANY circumstances. No carrot of "here, have a couple of years of a tax cut" will make me like or support what they're up to in DC.

On the point of taxation - it is ALL theft and it should ALL go away.

Permanently.

:)

[Join The Paul Side]

YEAAAAH BABY!!! Seriously, the capital gains tax is probably the most anti-free market tax out there after the income tax. Congress actually penalizes investment...it's a shame the Democrats are saying hell no to this...

Some form of bailout will be passed...not that I'm a fan on it, it would be great to get a capital gains tax reduction/elimination :)


What part of No Bail Out do you not understand?

[Bruno]

Put it this way: if I gave you a cookie and then beat you severely about the head and torso with a blunt instrument, would you say:

1. You have just committed a violent crime and should be subject to law.

-OR-

2. Thanks for the cookie.

?????

brilliant. but let's change the blunt instrument to the cookie jar itself for sake of the analogy.

[jkm1864]

Big deal .... Some of us do not deal with wall street guys. As a matter of fact this right here is just a cookie for the rich. Do you actually think someone working 84 hours a week is going to give a flying fart about capitol gains taxes. I swear this isn't a stinkin cookie .. Where is my tax break? Hell how bout no taxes on over time that sounds like my equivalent of a damn capitol gains tax...


this is pathetic .... and like i'll ever trust wall street again with my money. As a matter of fact hardly anyone is making money on wall street if you figure in inflation ... its all a ponzai scheme by the damn rich to take your money.

[Oyate]

From your comments, it appears you envy the investor class. That is not uncommon.


That's your impression and you're welcome to it. I just hate legislation that so blatantly favors one class of people over another. And when I describe "investor class" I don't simply mean people who make investments or who enjoy the benefits of capitalism.




On the point of taxation - it is ALL theft and it should ALL go away.





Unfortunately you'd have to amend the Constitution pretty radically. The Constitution provides the power of taxation to Congress. Originally, these were to be direct, apportioned taxes among the states.

[Oyate]

Big deal .... Some of us do not deal with wall street guys. As a matter of fact this right here is just a cookie for the rich. Do you actually think someone working 84 hours a week is going to give a flying fart about capitol gains taxes. I swear this isn't a stinkin cookie .. Where is my tax break? Hell how bout no taxes on over time that sounds like my equivalent of a damn capitol gains tax...


Well here we are, one of those who knows he's getting screwed absolutely and unequivocally.

And don't buy this bull about "taxpayers getting equity". There's 2 versions and ironically Nader's one makes more sense than the one floated by congressional republicans. Nader figures to pull a Carter-with-Big-Auto deal.

In other words, they want to loan them they money to get through bad debt but pay us back interest. All I have to say is we are neither GM is this is not 1972. Building what might have still been considered decent cards in the then-still-industrialized economy that hadn't created a global equities disaster just doesn't compare to shoving over-valued junk on the tax payer.

[Goldwater64]

Big deal .... Do you actually think someone working 84 hours a week is going to give a flying fart about capitol gains taxes. .



It's called capitalism baby! And it's the greatest system on earth.

It's not the fault of congress or certainly not of the the free market if you were too busy doing other things in your early 20's to prepare for a career.

I bet you had a fun time harrasing the "INVESTMENT CLASS" when you were in high school....right???

[tonesforjonesbones]

Capital gains tax IS constitutional...unfortunately, we end up paying those too. tones

[Knightskye]

YEAAAAH BABY!!! Seriously, the capital gains tax is probably the most anti-free market tax out there after the income tax. Congress actually penalizes investment...it's a shame the Democrats are saying hell no to this...

Some form of bailout will be passed...not that I'm a fan on it, it would be great to get a capital gains tax reduction/elimination :)

Capital gains or no capital gains, there won't be any capital to gain with the inflation the bailout would cause.

I'm just glad the Republicans are actually acting like an opposition party. They're probably just doing it to piss of Pelosi, but I'll take it.

[tropicangela]

Capital gains tax IS constitutional...unfortunately, we end up paying those too. tones

Yes I thought this was the Constitutional tax. Personal income tax isn't, but taxing profits from an investment or such is.

[Danke]

Yes I thought this was the Constitutional tax. Personal income tax isn't, but taxing profits from an investment or such is.


They are both income taxes and constitutional. Most people are not liable for these taxes. But they pay anyway because of a misunderstanding the law and/or fear, etc.

[me3]

I didn't read the whole thread.

But if you take away capital gains, doesn't that mean you can trade in gold as money?

[angelatc]

woo, get rid of that and ill be selling all my stocks!

As will they.

[angelatc]

Yes I thought this was the Constitutional tax. Personal income tax isn't, but taxing profits from an investment or such is.

I thought the same. I thought that wages per se weren't taxable, but income taxes were.

[werdd]

They are just tacking on eye candy to get capitalist free-marketers onboard.

[Knightskye]

I didn't read the whole thread.

But if you take away capital gains, doesn't that mean you can trade in gold as money?

Wait yeah, I think that means if the value of your gold appreciates, you don't have to pay tax on it.

Faustian bargain!

[Chase]

Yes, real stimulus