What would happen if the USA went bankrupt?

[porcupine]

We are very quickly approaching a situation where the federal government will not be able to pay its debts. Germany just turned the USA down when asked to loan money for the bank bailouts. If the bailout goes through, the government will have at least a $1.2 TRILLION deficit this year alone. If it doesn't, we'll "only" have a $400 billion dollar deficit.

So what happens when the USA goes bankrupt?

Well first, they have to lay off their government workers because they can't afford to enforce their laws, meaning it has the very real chance at freedom. The USA is well set up to have the federal government collapse because we have states that would still be able to do basic governance (and only cost about 2-8% of your income to do it). They have basic national defense (national guard), police and criminal codes, courts, etc.

However, the other thing that would happen would be that the dollar - which is backed only by the credit of the US government - would collapse when the USA's credit rating went to crap. That would bring a collapse in the economy till people figured out how to buy/sell without the dollar. THAT could bring mass communism, just as it did in the 1930's. Confiscation of land, gold and silver so that the government can pay its debts will be instituted ...IF the people are scared and dumb enough to go along with it (which, if you ask me, they are. Without a doubt.)

So how do we gain freedom and avoid communism? We have to have enough people in one place that are willing to say "no" and can govern themselves when the federal government is too broke to enforce its will. Right now, almost all states would go along with mass communism if the economy collapsed because there arne't enough people who understand how we got here. But if we had a place that had enough people who understood the problem in one place, we could make the right choice and achieve freedom. California, Maryland, Illinois...they could be free to go to hell on their own.


What I'm saying is, when the Soviet Union collapsed, some of the states broke off and became very free. Others stayed in Russia proper. Others broke off and stayed in corrupt communism. How do we ensure that we have a state that could be governed freely?

What do you think?

[nate895]

Well, should the worst happen, what I'd expect to have happen is a communist revolution vs. our revolution vs. possible fascist revolution (though I doubt that one). Our revolution will have strength in the Southern and Western states (with some exceptions), theirs would have strength in the Northeast and the Rustbelt (with the exception of New Hampshire, other rare exceptions). If a fascist revolution took hold anywhere, it'd be weak, with a little strength in small portions of the South. Remember, with this kind of stuff, all it takes is a few dozen crazy nut jobs and you have a full blown civil war.

[Malakai]

We actually are quite bankrupt. Our debt by now probably outweighs any assets of real value we possess.

We only are not bankrupt because the dollar is accepted around the world, and we have the presses.

Seriously though, in 1971 we declared we could no longer pay our debts in gold, hence the collapse of bretton-woods. For all intents and purposes we declared national bankruptcy then.

Make no mistake, if the rest of the world, today, stopped accepting dollars a nice chunk of us would starve.
We would have no gas available. Everything we import, which is almost everything we consume, would be gone. It would be the worst situation for the US since its creation, by far.

They gov doesn't even pretend it has money anymore. These recent bailouts, they don't even go to congress they just issue and sell the bonds and get the cash, either from foreign sources or the fed.
I mean, the IRS brings in like a trillion dollars a year, maybe a drop more. They are purposing to spend almost an entire years tax revenue on 1 single bailout. No one believes we have this kind of money anywhere.

[porcupine]

Well, should the worst happen, what I'd expect to have happen is a communist revolution vs. our revolution

As it stands now, our revolution would be drowned out because, just like the election, we'd be a minority everywhere.

[ARealConservative]

We went bankrupt before. 1971 to be exact. We had a promise to foreign owned dollars that it was redeemable in gold, but because we spent more then we could actually exchange in gold, we shut down the window and told the world to get bent.

Amazingly, we continued operating the global reserve currency then.

If the world bends over and continues to take it, we will make out of this mess just fine.

So it all depends on what the world central banks want to do.

[Menthol Patch]

The USA needs to go Bankrupt and start over.

[Goldwater64]

Interesting thought, but the government does not play by the same credit rules as you and me.

If they didn't have the money to pay external debts to other countries, they just wouldn't pay. What are the other countries going to do about it?

If the USA's "credit rating" went bad and other countries stopped loaning the USA money all together...well, the largest army in the history of the world has a unique way of raising it's own credit rating.

H*ll could break loose...but the US government is not going to just disolve.

[nate895]

As it stands now, our revolution would be drowned out because, just like the election, we'd be a minority everywhere.

Nah, not really, you start to see people going to radical philosophies in these situations, and we are the radical right-wing.

[nate895]

Interesting thought, but the government does not play by the same credit rules as you and me.

If they didn't have the money to pay external debts to other countries, they just wouldn't pay. What are the other countries going to do about it?

If the USA's "credit rating" went bad and other countries stopped loaning the USA money all together...well, the largest army in the history of the world has a unique way of raising it's own credit rating.

H*ll could break loose...but the US government is not going to just disolve.

In the past, you go to war. They US government would be forced to dissolve if the dollar went down the tubes. It would either be voted out of existence (preferable), or it would be burned out of existence by mobs.

[constituent]

http://www.gnn.tv/threads/13470/Civilian_Inmate_Labor_Program

[ronpaulforprez2008]

We won't go bankrupt! It is their fiat system that has gone bankrupt. There
is a huge difference.

But what they are trying to do is exchange all their worthless debt (US Dollar, stocks,
bad mortgages, etc.) for the American public's labor (or promise to pay). That is why
this bailout is so important to stop. It is basically a huge swindle. They want our
labor and our tangible property and businesses, and they are going to swap their
failed paper for it.

We are an extremely prosperous nation. Even today. We have tremendous
resources, a great labor force, incredible businesses. Don't give them away to
international interests who created a fiat financial system. And don't let them
convince you that we are bankrupt.

Let their system go down the toilet where it belongs.....then we can start
anew with a sound money system that preserves our wealth.

[mconder]

Germany just turned the USA down when asked to loan money for the bank bailouts.

Payback for WWI and WWII. I guess now we'll see who are friends really arn't.

[nate895]

Payback for WWI and WWII.

That one is owed to us, isn't it? I mean we did save more than half the world's population from greater tyranny than they already have, not to mention death camps.

[porcupine]

Interesting thought, but the government does not play by the same credit rules as you and me.

If they didn't have the money to pay external debts to other countries, they just wouldn't pay. What are the other countries going to do about it?

If the USA's "credit rating" went bad and other countries stopped loaning the USA money all together...well, the largest army in the history of the world has a unique way of raising it's own credit rating.


The USA pays its soldiers with borrowed money. When the rest of the world stops lending money, then there will be no army. There will be very little left of the federal government. The question is what do we do with that opportunity? Will we be in a position to take advantage of it?

I say we are not in a position to take advantage of it right now because we're too spread out and will be drowned out by the sheeple who will blame the crisis on the free market.

[mconder]

This is what the globalist want. Once the U.S. is bankrupt they will present the new currency as the only way out.

[porcupine]

In the past, you go to war. They US government would be forced to dissolve if the dollar went down the tubes. It would either be voted out of existence (preferable), or it would be burned out of existence by mobs.

That's exactly what I'm say we need to prevent. A mob will always always always choose to be led by a dictator.

[nate895]

The USA pays its soldiers with borrowed money. When the rest of the world stops lending money, then there will be no army. There will be very little left of the federal government. The question is what do we do with that opportunity? Will we be in a position to take advantage of it?

I say we are not in a position to take advantage of it right now because we're too spread out and will be drowned out by the sheeple who will blame the crisis on the free market.

All we have to do is take control of the situation by getting our message out. We need to start distributing Austrian Economics/liberty pamphlets on every street corner. Let's print out a hundred million and put them in stacks on the street corner, right next to where the communist ones will be.

[porcupine]

This is what the globalist want. Once the U.S. is bankrupt they will present the new currency as the only way out.

Right...that's what I keep saying. My question I posed in the original thread was, what are you going to do about it (besides talk about it online)? How do you propose getting set up so that we can take advantage of that opportunity while at the same time not falling victim to the tyranny that usually arises from a crisis?

[nate895]

That's exactly what I'm say we need to prevent. A mob will always always always choose to be led by a dictator.

But we need to make sure that the dictator they choose is liberty-minded. Here's what generally happens: people get pissed, pick the most fiery leader to follow (we need one, Kokesh seems like the only one), diehard opposition follows their leader, government gets destroyed, then the two factions go to war.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

We actually are quite bankrupt. Our debt by now probably outweighs any assets of real value we possess.

What, NO WAY... The country, it's people and it's mineral wealth would be worth hundreds of trillions if not thousands of trillions of dollars. They are just not in liquid assets.

[porcupine]

Payback for WWI and WWII. I guess now we'll see who are friends really arn't.

I don't know about Germany not being a friend. As McCain says, the government spends money like drunken sailors. Would you loan a drunk money?

[nate895]

What, NO WAY... The country, it's people and it's mineral wealth would be worth hundreds of trillions if not thousands of trillions of dollars. They are just not in liquid assets.

Isn't thousands of trillions, quadrillions?

[RonPaulVolunteer]

But we need to make sure that the dictator they choose is liberty-minded. Here's what generally happens: people get pissed, pick the most fiery leader to follow (we need one, Kokesh seems like the only one), diehard opposition follows their leader, government gets destroyed, then the two factions go to war.

I talk with Adam a lot. I trust him. Some say he's a loose canon. I agree. He is. And that's EXACTLY what we need for this time. Kokesh for President.

[nate895]

I talk with Adam a lot. I trust him. Some say he's a loose canon. I agree. He is. And that's EXACTLY what we need for this time. Kokesh for President.

Except, Kokesh isn't 35, so he only qualifies for last-ditch revolution leader.

[constituent]

A mob will always always always choose to be led by a dictator.

Yea, exactly.

You say it, but I don't think you really get it (maybe you do?).

[Alawn]

The USA pays its soldiers with borrowed money. When the rest of the world stops lending money, then there will be no army.


That doesn't matter. Haven't you ever heard of the draft? If you resist you go to jail.

[porcupine]

What, NO WAY... The country, it's people and it's mineral wealth would be worth hundreds of trillions if not thousands of trillions of dollars. They are just not in liquid assets.

OOOOOOoooookaaaayyyyyyy....so what does that have to do with the GOVERNMENT going bankrupt? You're suggesting that that the government would simply nationalize every raw material and industry...which would be communism...which is what I was saying we needed to avoid in my post.

[porcupine]

But we need to make sure that the dictator they choose is liberty-minded.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x259/alastair_hm/facepalmbq8dj7.jpg

[RonPaulVolunteer]

OOOOOOoooookaaaayyyyyyy....so what does that have to do with the GOVERNMENT going bankrupt? You're suggesting that that the government would simply nationalize every raw material and industry...which would be communism...which is what I was saying we needed to avoid in my post.

The Govt already HAS nationalized more land than you can possibly imagine. The reason we're in this mess is because it's fully planned. They're not stupid!

[porcupine]

That doesn't matter. Haven't you ever heard of the draft? If you resist you go to jail.

If the government can't pay its bureaucrats, who takes you to jail exactly? Who pays the guards in the jail?

What I'm saying is, when the Soviet Union collapsed, some of the states broke off and became very free. Others stayed in Russia proper. Others broke off and stayed in corrupt communism. How do we ensure that we have a state that could be governed freely?

[Join The Paul Side]

I agree. They know exactly what they're doing. None of this is happening on accident. :cool:

[nate895]

If the government can't pay its bureaucrats, who takes you to jail exactly? Who pays the guards in the jail?

What I'm saying is, when the Soviet Union collapsed, some of the states broke off and became very free. Others stayed in Russia proper. Others broke off and stayed in corrupt communism. How do we ensure that we have a state that could be governed freely?

Fiery leaders and education. We need millions of dollars to get out the message. The CFL ain't doing it, so someone needs to set it up. Someone needs to be out there gathering as many funds as we can muster and start distributing pamphlets/handbills to educate the people about the crisis, and broadcasting television ads, and have some leader who can inspire in the front of it all. Ron Paul might do, but he probably wouldn't be willing (and might not be able), Jesse Ventura doesn't strike me as someone who knows enough, and Adam Kokesh's expertise is the war, but he seems like the best we got.

[porcupine]

I agree. They know exactly what they're doing. None of this is happening on accident. :cool:

My question was what are you going to do about it (besides talk on the internet).



What I'm saying is, when the Soviet Union collapsed, some of the states broke off and became very free. Others stayed in Russia proper. Others broke off and stayed in corrupt communism. How do we ensure that we have a state that could be governed freely?

[porcupine]

Fiery leaders and education. We need millions of dollars to get out the message.

Is the problem the message or is the problem that people don't want to hear/don't agree with the message? I think it's the latter.


someone needs to set it up.

Someone? It's your idea. Hop to it ;) :D


distributing pamphlets/handbills to educate the people about the crisis,

You need other people around you to help you do that. Do you have anyone to help?

[nate895]

Is the problem the message or is the problem that people don't want to hear/don't agree with the message? I think it's the latter.

I think it is that not too many people have been exposed to it for long enough.


Someone? It's your idea. Hop to it ;) :D

I would, but I'm 16. If this was two years from now, the bank account would be setup, website up and running, and the FEC paperwork in the mail.


You need other people around you to help you do that. Do you have anyone to help?

Well, the meetup probably would help.

[porcupine]

I think it is that not too many people have been exposed to it for long enough.



I would, but I'm 16. If this was two years from now, the bank account would be setup, website up and running, and the FEC paperwork in the mail.



Well, the meetup probably would help.

My kind of guy :D

[nate895]

My kind of guy :D

I do like to actually DO things, that is why I'm considering running for state house in 2010 (I looked it up, and I qualify by 10 days to sign the paperwork legally).

[porcupine]

I do like to actually DO things, that is why I'm considering running for state house in 2010 (I looked it up, and I qualify by 10 days to sign the paperwork legally).

Which state?

[Cinderella]

we go bankrupt and theyll offer us NAU and amero...plain and simple...its the ultimate goal

[nate895]

Which state?

Washington, Legislative District 18 to be precise.

[Micah Dardar]

I do like to actually DO things, that is why I'm considering running for state house in 2010 (I looked it up, and I qualify by 10 days to sign the paperwork legally).

Sweet! Go for it man! Just don't embarrass us "younger" people like this 23 year old:

http://www.walkerhines.com/

Instead of supporting freedom, this kid came into office trying to boss people around. He is the second youngest person to get elected to congress in Louisiana, and he is the biggest embarrassment to any young person that would seek office. He tried to raise the tobacco age in LA to 21. I would personally like to see the drinking age lowered back to 18. Needless to say, we are complete opposites.

[nate895]

Sweet! Go for it man! Just don't embarrass us "younger" people like this 23 year old:

http://www.walkerhines.com/

Instead of supporting freedom, this kid came into office trying to boss people around. He is the second youngest person to get elected to congress in Louisiana, and he is the biggest embarrassment to any young person that would seek office. He tried to raise the tobacco age in LA to 21. I would personally like to see the drinking age lowered back to 18. Needless to say, we are complete opposites.

Don't worry on that account. I won't be too embarrassing, the most embarrassing thing they'll catch me doing is listening to classic country music on my way to work, and that's only embarrassing socially at high school, which wouldn't be a problem seeing as I would have graduated. I'll have my AA degree as well, since you can do that in WA state.

When the campaign for the House is over (we have a local RP candidate), I will get the meetup and some of my friends together to discuss it. If I can get their support, I will go for it.

[Indy Vidual]

What would happen if the USA went bankrupt?

Well, in many ways we already are bankrupt.
I'm very concerned about the next few years.