Leading Christianity Back To Basics

[LibertyCzar]

I am especially glad that Ron Paul scolded Evangelicals in the same letter that he used to announce his endorsement of Chuck Baldwin.

Most people on this forum, and elsewhere, are not seeing the complete targeted point that Ron Paul is trying to make. From his letter endorsing Chuck Baldwin, quote:


Ironically the most difficult group to recruit has been the evangelicals who supported McCain and his pro-war positions. They have been convinced that they are obligated to initiate preventive war in the Middle East for theological reasons. Fortunately, this is a minority of the Christian community, but our doors remain open to all despite this type of challenge. The point is, new devotees to the freedom philosophy are more likely to come from the left than from those conservatives who have been convinced that God has instructed us to militarize the Middle East.


I see here a level of frustration that Ron Paul has with evangelicals. He sees that it is clear that they have been deluded. So it is important to note that Chuck Baldwin is a pastor, and a key player in the Moral Majority. Who better to educate Christians than a Christian leader? Ron Paul's endorsement provides a conduit to try to offer Christians an effective means so that they can realize that their theory that "God has instucted us to militarize the Middle East" is absolutely wrong.

So I would like to pose a challenge to everyone to look at this from a prism beyond the legitimacy, or lack thereof, of Bob Barr. Chuck Baldwin certainly spreads Ron Paul's message, nearly in its entirety. Yet Chuck Baldwin also spreads the message to Christians to abandon interventionalism from the podium of government. Rather religious institutions should spread their doctrine through the mechanisms of churches, the missionary field, and other methods of evangelism. That would be in the spirit of the free market and a marketplace for competing religions and those that have no religion.

Our military should only be used for legitimate defense of this nation. Chuck Baldwin is a leader of their flock, and perhaps more than anyone, he can make evangelicals realize this concept. In fact, the book of Revelations in the Bible is one big warning against imperialism and the danger of global governments. Evangelicals need to realize that America has become "the great whore" that is referenced in Revelations. Chuck Baldwin is the only presidential candidate that can express our foreign policy in such terms.

So then we get back to Ron Paul's strategy. Sure, Bob Barr pissed him off. But Ron Paul realizes that a vast constituency of the status quo is the evangelicals. This is because they have been sold a fraudulent bill of goods. Indeed, I am looking forward to see if Chuck Baldwin can indeed bring Christianity back to its basic core.

Christians need to support more of the principles of Jesus Christ, and the Apostles, and less of the structures and tactics of the Roman Empire -- which was the same dominating government that was so problematic for the Christian church from the beginning, including Emperor Nero's scapegoating and persecution of Christian leaders such as Peter and Paul, authors of much of the New Testament of the Bible. Currently, our own Federal government is in the process of harassing leaders of alternative religions.

In my view, everyone has an equal stake in making sure a religion doesn't become intertwined with a monolithic and imperialistic government intent to intervene anywhere and everywhere. This is something that must be stopped.

[Truth Warrior]

Basic: Jesus was not a Christian. ;)

[Mark]

Basic: Jesus was not a Christian. ;)

Correction: Jesus IS not a Christian. He's quite alive and well. :)

[Truth Warrior]

Correction: Jesus IS not a Christian. He's quite alive and well. :) Well, I guess that we've covered both past and present. :D

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Read Rob Bell's newest book. Jesus Wants To Save Christians: A Manifesto For The Church In Exile. AMAZING!!
He is in absolute agreement with Ron Paul. Talks all about empire and terrorism. Flat out never read anything like it ever.
And I found the audio version on BitTorrent, but I do own it, bought it from Audible.com.

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Wants-Save-Christians-Manifesto/dp/0310275024/

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41v2r9kElSL._SS500_.jpg

[Kade]

Correction: Jesus IS not a Christian. He's quite alive and well. :)

This is what real life madness looks like, for anyone who has not seen it before.

[amy31416]

This is what real life madness looks like, for anyone who has not seen it before.

Kade, quit being a twerp. Nobody's trying to convert you for god's sake and you jump in and insult people.

I thought you were the one who was being crucified in the forums. I don't recall Mark ever jumping into a thread and insulting you. Hypocrite.

[wizardwatson]

Correction: Jesus IS not a Christian. He's quite alive and well. :)

Well duh...

Jesus lives his life in a cheap hotel on the edge of route 66.

[jacmicwag]

Great points Liberty Czar and right on the money.

[Kade]

Kade, quit being a twerp. Nobody's trying to convert you for god's sake and you jump in and insult people.

I thought you were the one who was being crucified in the forums. I don't recall Mark ever jumping into a thread and insulting you. Hypocrite.

Wrong again. Mark is one of my personal vendettas for his absolute retardation in a thread from last month. This fool went out of his way to insult me.

[amy31416]

Wrong again. Mark is one of my personal vendettas for his absolute retardation in a thread from last month. This fool went out of his way to insult me.

Well good for you for not taking the high ground then.

[Kade]

Kade, quit being a twerp. Nobody's trying to convert you for god's sake and you jump in and insult people.

I thought you were the one who was being crucified in the forums. I don't recall Mark ever jumping into a thread and insulting you. Hypocrite.

And sure, you are allowed to jump in at anytime, like it's your business.

I'm sure human biology has something to do with this... let's see...


*scrolls through logs*

There it is:


"It's funny because it's true."

You just crack me up sometimes. :D:D:D If you were single... ;)

I'm done for the day here. It's been annoying. I'm not in the business of going soft on people who have crushes on me.

[Mark]

Wrong again. Mark is one of my personal vendettas for his absolute retardation in a thread from last month. This fool went out of his way to insult me.

Easy to claim it, why not post it? Maybe some where in this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=147681)?

You called ME "ignorantly pretentious" here. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1584675&highlight=ignorantly+pretentious.+don%27t+god+all% 2C#post1584675) I can't find where I "insulted" you beforehand.

Kade, your constant attack on and belittling of Christianity only shows that you have lack of confidence in your beliefs,
just like a bully shows his lack of confidence in himself by needing to attack others.

If you feel compelled to make me one of your "personal vendettas", by all means, knock yourself out, but frankly, people like you bore me, though I do pity you.

[DeadtoSin]

Nobody cares Kade, trolling attempt: 0/10.

In any case, I'm planning on writing up a big article this weekend about early Christians and how they were seen by the government. I want to cover how they brought about change, and what their focus was. Then I want to compare that to today's Christianity and suggest some changes.

[Theocrat]

Easy to claim it, why not post it? Maybe some where in this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=147681)?

You called ME "ignorantly pretentious" here. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1584675&highlight=ignorantly+pretentious.+don%27t+god+all% 2C#post1584675) I can't find where I "insulted" you beforehand.

Kade, your constant attack on and belittling of Christianity only shows that you have lack of confidence in your beliefs,
just like a bully shows his lack of confidence in himself by needing to attack others.

If you feel compelled to make me one of your "personal vendettas", by all means, knock yourself out, but frankly, people like you bore me, though I do pity you.

No, it shows that Kade is not religiously neutral, but that he is openly and zealously "atheistic," being totally against anything which is Christian in nature. That is the lot of most non-Christian supporters on these forums, unfortunately. Kade doesn't like it when Christians "force" their beliefs on others, yet he has no problem ridiculing and attacking the faith of other Christians when it suits himself. You see, he lives by a double standard.

[DeadtoSin]

No, it shows that Kade is not religiously neutral, but that he is openly and zealously "atheistic," being totally against anything which is Christian in nature. That is the lot of most non-Christian supporters on these forums, unfortunately. Kade doesn't like it when Christians "force" their beliefs on others, yet he has no problem ridiculing the faith of other Christians when it suits himself. You see, he lives by a double standard.

Of course not always true, but very seldom do I meet anyone more close-minded than supposedly open-minded people such as Kade.

[Mark]

Kade, quit being a twerp. Nobody's trying to convert you for god's sake and you jump in and insult people.

I thought you were the one who was being crucified in the forums. I don't recall Mark ever jumping into a thread and insulting you. Hypocrite.

Thanks, you indeed have a good and kind heart. If you were only single.. ;)

[amy31416]

And sure, you are allowed to jump in at anytime, like it's your business.

I'm sure human biology has something to do with this... let's see...

*scrolls through logs*

There it is:

I'm done for the day here. It's been annoying. I'm not in the business of going soft on people who have crushes on me.

Whatever Kade. I was interested in the thread because I'd like to see the all-powerful neocon voting bloc of the religious right get a bit of sunlight and stop blindly voting Republican, you 'jacked it with a stupid comment. Now instead of a decent conversation on what Baldwin/Paul could add to this, you're trying to turn it into yet another atheist vs. Christian thread.

You're liberal, you have everything to gain from the religious right not voting blindly for the neocons, so cut out the childish crap and try to see the bigger picture.

ETA: Hope this gets back on track, I'll go back to lurking. :)

[amy31416]

Thanks, you indeed have a good and kind heart. If you were only single.. ;)

:D

[yongrel]

Y'all are so predictable some times.

TW will always insert a quasi-cryptic one-liner accompanied by an emoticon. Mark will always say something that makes me do a double-take (but i like 'im anyways :D) and Kade will always tack himself to the cross and then complain when someone gives him a crown of thorns.

If we were in the flesh, we'd be on Jerry Springer.

[Bman]

No, it shows that Kade is not religiously neutral, but that he is openly and zealously "atheistic," being totally against anything which is Christian in nature. That is the lot of most non-Christian supporters on these forums, unfortunately. Kade doesn't like it when Christians "force" their beliefs on others, yet he has no problem ridiculing and attacking the faith of other Christians when it suits himself. You see, he lives by a double standard.

It's more so action vs reaction than a double standard. Christians feel compelled to preach about god. As such Aethist feel compelled to preach against god.

If christians didn't talk about god. Aethists wouldn't either.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

This fool went out of his way to insult me.

Yeah well, you you don't have to go to far out of your way to insult you.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

It's more so action vs reaction than a double standard. Christians feel compelled to preach about god. As such Aethist feel compelled to preach against god.

If christians didn't talk about god. Aethists wouldn't either.

And then we wouldn't have freedom. Yay!

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Y'all are so predictable some times.

Not as predictable as you Yongrel.

[Mark]

Y'all are so predictable some times.

TW will always insert a quasi-cryptic one-liner accompanied by an emoticon. Mark will always say something that makes me do a double-take (but i like 'im anyways :D) and Kade will always tack himself to the cross and then complain when someone gives him a crown of thorns.

If we were in the flesh, we'd be on Jerry Springer.
Thanks yongrel, you kewl.

I was only trying to do a little play on words, and then someone pops in and insults themselves without even knowing it.
Who'd have thunk it? :rolleyes:

I got point. Educating certain Christians who obviously miss some of the points Jesus emphasized, like,
"thou shouldn't murder innocent people", is seriously very important.

"Loving your neighbor as yourself" is NOT accomplished by bombing innocent women and children to bits
under the pretense of protecting your own life.

Lord knows I'm not perfect and screw up at times in terms of following the examples and teachings of Jesus,
but, not killing innocent people to save myself is a no-brainer.

[Bman]

And then we wouldn't have freedom. Yay!

????

I made no comment about anyone saying one could not speak for or against God. I was just commenting on why it is what it is.

[yongrel]

Not as predictable as you Yongrel.

:rolleyes:

[Mark]

If christians didn't talk about god. Aethists wouldn't either.

That's quite a leap of logic -- i.e that Atheists don't promote their values unless someone else promotes their's first.

And besides, the point of the thread is about correcting certain Christian's viewpoints, it has nothing to do with Atheism,
so Atheism doesn't/shouldn't even factor into the equation.

[Kotin]

Not as predictable as you Yongrel.

fail.

[SovereignMN]

...will always tack himself to the cross and then complain when someone gives him a crown of thorns.

Never heard that before! I like it. I'm going to use that quote.

[Micah Dardar]

I'm glad I'm not an atheist. I've knelt and prayed in a Catholic church, knelt and prayed in an Islamic gathering, sat beside excessively eager Protestants, dated a Sikh, and read Eastern philosophy.

Funny thing is, you would think that there would be a war inside my head, but there's not. I'm simply elevating in the tower of enlightenment. :)

[Bman]

That's quite a leap of logic -- i.e that Atheists don't promote their values unless someone else promotes their's first.

And besides, the point of the thread is about correcting certain Christian's viewpoints, it has nothing to do with Atheism,
so Atheism doesn't/shouldn't even factor into the equation.

I wasn't replying to the OP. Sorry for crashing your little shin dig.

Sure Atheists promote their values. But they don't promote their values based on fabled sentient beings. Therefore they would not talk about said existance or non-existance until it was clear that someone was saying such things existed.

[nbhadja]

Correction: Jesus IS not a Christian. He's quite alive and well. :)

youtube or it didn't happen

[nbhadja]

But the reason us atheists are so vocal is because the world assumes that god exists by default. It is ridiculous. You don't see people asking "Why don't you believe in Santa Clause or the easter bunny."

There should not even be a word for us. We do NOT believe in god. You don't see there being a word for people who do not believe in santa or the lochness monster etc.

[mitty]

I am especially glad that Ron Paul scolded Evangelicals in the same letter that he used to announce his endorsement of Chuck Baldwin.

Most people on this forum, and elsewhere, are not seeing the complete targeted point that Ron Paul is trying to make. From his letter endorsing Chuck Baldwin, quote:



I see here a level of frustration that Ron Paul has with evangelicals. He sees that it is clear that they have been deluded. So it is important to note that Chuck Baldwin is a pastor, and a key player in the Moral Majority. Who better to educate Christians than a Christian leader? Ron Paul's endorsement provides a conduit to try to offer Christians an effective means so that they can realize that their theory that "God has instucted us to militarize the Middle East" is absolutely wrong.

So I would like to pose a challenge to everyone to look at this from a prism beyond the legitimacy, or lack thereof, of Bob Barr. Chuck Baldwin certainly spreads Ron Paul's message, nearly in its entirety. Yet Chuck Baldwin also spreads the message to Christians to abandon interventionalism from the podium of government. Rather religious institutions should spread their doctrine through the mechanisms of churches, the missionary field, and other methods of evangelism. That would be in the spirit of the free market and a marketplace for competing religions and those that have no religion.

Our military should only be used for legitimate defense of this nation. Chuck Baldwin is a leader of their flock, and perhaps more than anyone, he can make evangelicals realize this concept. In fact, the book of Revelations in the Bible is one big warning against imperialism and the danger of global governments. Evangelicals need to realize that America has become "the great whore" that is referenced in Revelations. Chuck Baldwin is the only presidential candidate that can express our foreign policy in such terms.

So then we get back to Ron Paul's strategy. Sure, Bob Barr pissed him off. But Ron Paul realizes that a vast constituency of the status quo is the evangelicals. This is because they have been sold a fraudulent bill of goods. Indeed, I am looking forward to see if Chuck Baldwin can indeed bring Christianity back to its basic core.

Christians need to support more of the principles of Jesus Christ, and the Apostles, and less of the structures and tactics of the Roman Empire -- which was the same dominating government that was so problematic for the Christian church from the beginning, including Emperor Nero's scapegoating and persecution of Christian leaders such as Peter and Paul, authors of much of the New Testament of the Bible. Currently, our own Federal government is in the process of harassing leaders of alternative religions.

In my view, everyone has an equal stake in making sure a religion doesn't become intertwined with a monolithic and imperialistic government intent to intervene anywhere and everywhere. This is something that must be stopped.

great post.

i'm sorry to see that such a wonderful message has been subverted by trolls in this thread

[Aldanga]

Nobody cares Kade, trolling attempt: 0/10.

In any case, I'm planning on writing up a big article this weekend about early Christians and how they were seen by the government. I want to cover how they brought about change, and what their focus was. Then I want to compare that to today's Christianity and suggest some changes.

Read Jesus for President if you want some good ideas. We just got done with that in my polisci class. Really interesting stuff.