So, all our work within the REPUBLICAN party is for naught

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

Thanks, Ron. Thanks a lot. I feel like you just stabbed me in the back. And no, I didn't expect you to endorse McCain, nor did I want you to.

I realize there aren't that many of us Goldwater/Reagan types left. But there are some of us. Some of us are the GOP. Some of us walked through hell for you, defending your positions, stating how you really are a Republican, and you're just trying to move the party back to what it once was. Some of us are officers in the GOP. Some of us have made serious breakthroughs and have friends and allies in the GOP. Then you go and endorse someone outside the party. You should have just kept your mouth shut!

You think us Republicans aren't going to lose our positions next year? I thought the goal of the C4L was to take over the GOP. I thought the signs at the ralley stated "Calling the GOP back to it's roots". So, what is it? You have Republicans running for Congress that won primaries BECAUSE OF YOU. They've walked over glass and through fire winning back the "traditional" GOP voters for the general election. Now, you won't support your party, and the people you inspired to run.

Many people got involved for the first time for you, Ron. Not me. I was a Republican before your campaign, and I will remain a Republican after you. Now to stay in a position WHERE I HAVE A DIRECT EFFECT ON THE FUTURE OF LIBERTY, I have to bad mouth you. I have to state how disappointed I am in you.

Yes, I could rejoin the insignificant Libertarian party. Been there, done that. Yeah, they advance liberty :rolleyes:. Infighting and purity tests. That goes a long way to win people over to the cause.

I have some serious doubts on whether or I want to stay with the C4L. I can't see what good it's going to do. We need to take over the GOP. Poking at the hornet's nest isn't going to help do that.

Thanks for rendering us CONSERVATIVES inside the GOP insignificant once again, Ron. Really appreciate it.

Ken Nelson,
President - Southern Mecklenburg Republican Club
Sitting Member of the Mecklenburg Republican Executive Board
Republican Precinct Chairman - Precinct #65
Ad-hoc C4L District Leader (NC-9)
Charlotte, NC

[Highland]

I guess you voted for Bush twice...

[MRoCkEd]

How the hell does his support for Baldwin change any of that?
If anything, it shows the republican party has drifted so far from conservative principles that one must look outside it for viable candidates. The purpose of the C4L is to change this.

[acptulsa]

Nothing ensures failure like trying to please everybody.

Well, it seems our G.O.P. infiltrators must keep their admiration for Ron Paul a deep, dark secret. The wise ones have been doing this all along. Even so, I definitely see where you're coming from.

Well, G.O.P. neophyte party leaders, hang in there. Ron Paul may have the brand that seems most tarnished now, but Paulson is busy tarnishing the rest of the G.O.P. brand as I type this. I feel that before we know it Ron Paul's brand will outshine the rest handily. Especially if we continue our efforts at education.

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

I guess you voted for Bush twice...

No, I didn't. I voted for Browne in 2000. I did vote for Bush in 2004, though.

[acptulsa]

How the hell does his support for Baldwin change any of that?
If anything, it shows the republican party has drifted so far from conservative principles that one must look outside it for viable candidates. The purpose of the C4L is to change this.

The G.O.P. is full of team players, and anyone who does not play to advance the team even if for the finest and most noble of reasons will be villified. The G.O.P. is not currently full of people of nobility. Rather it is full of people who understand and respect the fact that nobility tends not to win elections these days.

[luke-gr]

Ken, what you have liked Dr. Paul to have done? I am curious as to what point you felt stabbed in the back? Was it some months ago when Dr. Paul said he would not endorse McCain or more recently now that he has said who he will vote for? Would it have been better if he encouraged us not to vote at all and wait for a better Republican candidate?

[Madison]

I won't vote for Baldwin but his endorsement does not have the implications you state. It is only applicable to this election because McCain is not an option. This action does not override or nullify any intent or continued action to change the GOP. If anything it helps because the GOP failed to get Paul to endorse McCain, knowing they alienated a chunk of their base and sacrificed a lot of votes, which will force them to change in the future. I don't care who Paul is personally voting for. Can't we all think for ourselves or are we a cult who does whatever Ron Paul does? Go your own path and be your own leader.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I do sympathize with the OP. I say keep doing what you are doing. I am going to get onboard also. This effort to take back the GOP will be a long process...and the only way is to remain in there ...and be their biggest cheerleader while gently passing along information. I went to the GOP headquarters the other day and handed all of them a pocket constitution. They were all very grateful and excited to get it. I volunteered for the phone banks or whatever they need. To go in and protest and disrupt is the wrong approach ..as we clearly saw during the delegate selection process. In order to take over, you have to do exactly what you said. Become buddies with some of them, go have a cup of coffee...lol and don't mention Ron Paul YET. This , unfortunately, is the only way until enough of us wake up...then we can move in on it. Don't give up. TONES

[Rangeley]

He didn't shift the mission to working within the Constitution party. The effort is still within the Republican party - all he announced is that he supports Baldwin in this race.

[Highland]

No, I didn't. I voted for Browne in 2000. I did vote for Bush in 2004, though.

thank you for being honest. what did you see in him?

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

Ken, what you have liked Dr. Paul to have done? I am curious as to what point you felt stabbed in the back? Was it some months ago when Dr. Paul said he would not endorse McCain or more recently now that he has said who he will vote for? Would it have been better if he encouraged us not to vote at all and wait for a better Republican candidate?


I first felt betrayed when he had Nader and McKinney sitting up there with him, and he encouraged all his supporters to vote third party. Nader and McKinney are flat out enemies. They are as close to communist as they come. Just because they might have the right view on the 4th Amendment or on imperialism does not make them allies.

Then, when I read his C4L blog, endorsing Chuck Baldwin is when I felt the knife enter the back.

I've tried to recruit like-minded Republicans into the C4L. You know, most Republicans will hold their noses and vote for McCain because of the fear of Obama. Yeah, really great way of having to look at an election. BUT THIS IS REALITY! WE ARE NOT LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD WHERE EVERYONE WILL SEE THERE IS LITTLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN McCAIN AND OBAMA!! When these Republicans find out that Ron Paul wasn't going to support the GOP all along, they'll feel like I was lying to them all this time.

[SnappleLlama]

I really don't understand why this endorsement is causing such a ruckas on the forums. Ron Paul fully supports our right to vote for whomever we want. Why can't we do the same for him?

[tonesforjonesbones]

Although I realize Ron Paul is being fairly consistant with his philosophy, but if he endorses someone in another party...how does that reflect on our efforts to bring the GOP back to sanity? The GOP will see Ron Paul as even more traitorous...and we won't even be able to mention his name within the GOP without being completely discredited...so how will we gain their confidence in order to change hearts and minds? TONES

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

thank you for being honest. what did you see in him?

Browne or Bush?

I just happened to really like Harry Browne. I read "Why Government Doesn't Work" and thought, this guy gets it! Browne inspired me to become a Libertarian. Libertarians inspired me to change back to Republican.

As for Bush? I liked his tax cuts. At the time, I thought we were right in Iraq (I am wrong today). Badnarik was a horrible candidate. Never considered Kerry and thought he was a traitor. However, I've never been a big fan of Bush.

I supported Forbes in the 2000 primaries.

[MRoCkEd]

Because Ron Paul encourages us to vote 3rd party, we can't reform the GOP? That seems silly.
If you're really into "sneak-attack GOP takeovers," then just don't tell anyone you support Ron Paul...

[Highland]

Browne or Bush?

I just happened to really like Harry Browne. I read "Why Government Doesn't Work" and thought, this guy gets it! Browne inspired me to become a Libertarian. Libertarians inspired me to change back to Republican.

As for Bush? I liked his tax cuts. At the time, I thought we were right in Iraq (I am wrong today). Badnarik was a horrible candidate. Never considered Kerry and thought he was a traitor. However, I've never been a big fan of Bush.

I supported Forbes in the 2000 primaries.

thanks for the breakdown...I always wonder about how someone would like Bush.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I don't believe that tactic works. We can see it didn't work..when Ron Paul people were getting thrown out of GOP executive meetings and such. I think we have to change stragedy. No more protesting...that gets you thrown OUT! I believe that you have to become ONE OF THEM...or make them believe you are and gently change hearts and minds. I guess at this point in order to bring the GOP back, one would have to talk about Ron Paul philosophy...but not Ron Paul. sigh. I hate it, but I think it's true. Now RP has gone and endorsed someone outside the party. He should have just remained neutral unless he is planning to make Campaign for Liberty a third party. You catch more flies with sugar than you do with vinegar. I say Ron Paul is getting BAD advice , as usual. TONES

[crusader]

boo hoo.

you sound like you work for the MSM. get off the boards troll, you fail.

[tonesforjonesbones]

See crusader is someone who posts frequently and took on another s/n ...so nobody knows who it is...and then calls me a troll HAHAHAHAH FAILLLLLLLLLLLLLLL TONES (this is happening a lot lately)

[tpreitzel]

I first felt betrayed when he had Nader and McKinney sitting up there with him, and he encouraged all his supporters to vote third party. Nader and McKinney are flat out enemies. They are as close to communist as they come. Just because they might have the right view on the 4th Amendment or on imperialism does not make them allies.

Wrong. Agreement on those 4 points DOES make the Constitution, Green, Independent, and Libertarian parties our allies on the limited basis of agreement. Just because Ron wisely forged a limited basis for consensus to strike a blow at the two party system, that consensus doesn't mean that Ron supports the platforms of those 3rd parties. How does one force the political duopoly to change if one doesn't attack them both externally (3rd party) and internally (taking over the GOP)?


Then, when I read his C4L blog, endorsing Chuck Baldwin is when I felt the knife enter the back.

I've tried to recruit like-minded Republicans into the C4L. You know, most Republicans will hold their noses and vote for McCain because of the fear of Obama. Yeah, really great way of having to look at an election. BUT THIS IS REALITY! WE ARE NOT LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD WHERE EVERYONE WILL SEE THERE IS LITTLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN McCAIN AND OBAMA!! When these Republicans find out that Ron Paul wasn't going to support the GOP all along, they'll feel like I was lying to them all this time.

Oh, please. Since the C4L can't change the GOP quick enough without some external threat (3rd party), using 3rd parties to threaten the dominion and quicken the pace of change within the political duopoly makes good sense.

[Rangeley]

I don't believe that tactic works. We can see it didn't work..when Ron Paul people were getting thrown out of GOP executive meetings and such. I think we have to change stragedy. No more protesting...that gets you thrown OUT! I believe that you have to become ONE OF THEM...or make them believe you are and gently change hearts and minds. I guess at this point in order to bring the GOP back, one would have to talk about Ron Paul philosophy...but not Ron Paul. sigh. I hate it, but I think it's true. Now RP has gone and endorsed someone outside the party. He should have just remained neutral unless he is planning to make Campaign for Liberty a third party. You catch more flies with sugar than you do with vinegar. I say Ron Paul is getting BAD advice , as usual. TONES
The people running things at the state level are almost without exception going to be incredibly resistant to us. My experience at the town level, on the other hand, has been very positive.

[acptulsa]

boo hoo.

you sound like you work for the MSM. get off the boards troll, you fail.

Anyone who is working this hard to take the G.O.P. back for the people of this nation can cry on my shoulder any time at all. I will have nothing but patience and support.

[Dorfsmith]

I gave up on the GOP a long time ago. Glad Ron Paul decided to follow me :p

[tonesforjonesbones]

Ron Paul is still a republican. TONES

[ashura]

Wrong. Agreement on those 4 points DOES make the Constitution, Green, Independent, and Libertarian parties our allies on the limited basis of agreement. Just because Ron wisely forged a limited basis for consensus to strike a blow at the two party system, that consensus doesn't mean that Ron supports the platforms of those 3rd parties. How does one force the political duopoly to change if one doesn't attack them both externally (3rd party) and internally (taking over the GOP)?

QFT

I think the biggest roblem eole have is that it's Baldwin and the Constitution arty. If Barr got the endorsement, I don't think there would have been this big a ruckus.

(ardon the tyos, the letter to the right of "o" on my keyboard isn't working :mad:)

[raystone]

It's not about the party.

It's not about the person.

It's about the U.S. Constitution.

[NoPants]

Thanks, Ron. Thanks a lot. I feel like you just stabbed me in the back. And no, I didn't expect you to endorse McCain, nor did I want you to.

Once you get off your soapbox, try thinking a little further down the line than this fall. Everyone is getting confused by not thinking long term. This is simple supply and demand. As long as we continue to vote for the republicans (or dems) allowing them to win elections, they will keep giving us the pitiful representation we get now. However, if they see the votes going in another direction, perhapses towards candidates who stand for what the republican's once did, they might just decide to reform their party policies and actually act in a way that demonstrates it. They just want to win and as long as they can do it by lying to us for votes then do whatever they want in office, nothing will change. We must show them we're willing to vote for someone who does stand for what we believe in, especially if they're in another party. Get it? This can't happen overnight and won't happen without other parties bringing competition for votes.

[RP4EVER]

Ron Paul is still a republican. TONES

Hes also a Life member of the Libertarian Party. Nough said.

As for the outrage against Baldwin. Has anyone noticed its the same people. The ones who believe their opinion is the only one that counts? That the Libertarian Party is a Saint among Third Parties?

[rancher89]

Thanks, Ron. Thanks a lot. I feel like you just stabbed me in the back. And no, I didn't expect you to endorse McCain, nor did I want you to.

I realize there aren't that many of us Goldwater/Reagan types left. But there are some of us. Some of us are the GOP. Some of us walked through hell for you, defending your positions, stating how you really are a Republican, and you're just trying to move the party back to what it once was. Some of us are officers in the GOP. Some of us have made serious breakthroughs and have friends and allies in the GOP. Then you go and endorse someone outside the party. You should have just kept your mouth shut!

You think us Republicans aren't going to lose our positions next year? I thought the goal of the C4L was to take over the GOP. I thought the signs at the ralley stated "Calling the GOP back to it's roots". So, what is it? You have Republicans running for Congress that won primaries BECAUSE OF YOU. They've walked over glass and through fire winning back the "traditional" GOP voters for the general election. Now, you won't support your party, and the people you inspired to run.

Many people got involved for the first time for you, Ron. Not me. I was a Republican before your campaign, and I will remain a Republican after you. Now to stay in a position WHERE I HAVE A DIRECT EFFECT ON THE FUTURE OF LIBERTY, I have to bad mouth you. I have to state how disappointed I am in you.

Yes, I could rejoin the insignificant Libertarian party. Been there, done that. Yeah, they advance liberty :rolleyes:. Infighting and purity tests. That goes a long way to win people over to the cause.

I have some serious doubts on whether or I want to stay with the C4L. I can't see what good it's going to do. We need to take over the GOP. Poking at the hornet's nest isn't going to help do that.

Thanks for rendering us CONSERVATIVES inside the GOP insignificant once again, Ron. Really appreciate it.

Ken Nelson,
President - Southern Mecklenburg Republican Club
Sitting Member of the Mecklenburg Republican Executive Board
Republican Precinct Chairman - Precinct #65
Ad-hoc C4L District Leader (NC-9)
Charlotte, NC
Ken, you and I have had some differences of opinion, this is it, I can't sit still and let you blather on like this without responding.

For those of you that don't know, Ken and I both live in Charlotte. We've knocked heads a few times on his tactics, methods and histrionincs especially.

"And no, I didn't expect you to endorse McCain, nor did I want you to."

So explain to all of us, Ken, why exactly you are going to vote for McCain??? This is what you told me: "Because Obama scares you too much, the USA will fall apart if Obama becomes president," yadda yadda yadda. You are an old style Republican and you are reverting to your old style habits of voting for the lesser of two evils. As long as you continue to think and vote that way, IMHO you do not belong in the CFL because that is not what we are all about. We are about bringing the GOP back to it's roots, still. We're about bringing down the two party system and making the voting process realistic again. If you can't do what it takes, again IMHO--you don't belong in the CFL.

"Some of us walked through hell for you, defending your positions, stating how you really are a Republican, and you're just trying to move the party back to what it once was. Some of us are officers in the GOP. Some of us have made serious breakthroughs and have friends and allies in the GOP. Then you go and endorse someone outside the party. You should have just kept your mouth shut!"

You "walked through hell" for Ron Paul? When? Where? Did you go canvass in SC every weekend? Or at all? Did you canvass your neighborhood? Did you try to bring anyone else to the County Convention? Which county meetings have you been too, BEFORE you were made an officer in the club? "Officer in the GOP"--Ken you are only an officer in the gop because the guy who was the president of our GOP club had to quit and no one else wanted the job. I'll bet you a dollar you don't stay on as president very long. "Serious breakthroughs and have friends and allies in the GOP" where, when and with whom were these breakthroughs? Who are your allies?? Why are they your allies? I want details. Haven't heard any up to this point in any of our conversations. So Ron Paul endorses Chuck Baldwin. So freaking what??? It makes absolutely no difference in NC, Baldwin can't even be written in according to the NC BOE. The die hard gopers didn't care for Ron Paul to begin with and this will only roll off their radar like rain on a "rainex'ed windshield." The rest realize how pointless his endorsement is in NC and will ignore it. The few that it will sit badly with will use it IF YOU GIVE THEM A REASON TO..... so don't give them a reason to......IT"S THE MESSAGE, NOT THE MAN. Good grief dude, how many times do I have to say that???? You don't even have to bring his name up, just keep hammering away at the message. The message goes beyond any one person.

"Now, you won't support your party, and the people you inspired to run."

Where did Ron Paul say he wasn't going to support the gop or the people he inspired to run??? He just endorsed one presidential candidate and that means he's no longer a republican and/or supporting republicans????

" Now to stay in a position WHERE I HAVE A DIRECT EFFECT ON THE FUTURE OF LIBERTY, I have to bad mouth you. I have to state how disappointed I am in you."

What???? Why???? Now, when they ask me about Ron Paul, I'll shrug and say that he got me interested in joining the gop, I did, and I think that the gop is the place for me. Nuff said. Just be glad that people did change their registration and keep working on bringing more people into the gop. What is so horrible about that? And now you have a "DIRECT EFFECT ON THE FUTURE OF LIBERTY?" paleeze give me a break, and give yourself a reality check at the same time.

"Yes, I could rejoin the insignificant Libertarian party. Been there, done that. Yeah, they advance liberty :rolleyes:. Infighting and purity tests. That goes a long way to win people over to the cause."

WTF kind of comment is this??? These are our partners Ken, these are the guys we will be helping to win elections with. What is wrong with you???

You won't start a RLC chapter in Mecklinburg County because you are too busy to do so and you don't think it is necessary. BUT---You want to run for Sue Myrick's seat when she retires. Now you might run for school board, if "we" think you should. Where are you going to find the time to run for and be on the school board AND handle your position as the temporary 9th District organizer? BTW, have you been working on that at all? Talking to your neighbors, the people at the store etc???

One question I've been meaning to ask you, where was your leadership when we were getting ready for the State convention? The only thing I can remember you talking about was
1) We needed to be registered Republican by a certain date
2) We shouldn't talk or post about 9/11 or other "truther" stuff, as it "scares" the powers that be......
Nothing about Robert's Rules from you, nothing about what to expect, no bringing anyone in that may have some experience in these matters. At least I found a guy from 2 hrs away that was willing to come and talk to us before we left for the convention. A month or so before the convention you managed to piss off half of our membership with your over the top reaction to minor talk about conspiracy topics. Your attitude at people leaving the group was, to say--"Maybe it's time we culled the herd." Counter productive to say the least.

I for one have believed for over a year that you do not belong in the Ron Paul movement and I'm not the only one. Yes, I'm angry. I've kept my mouth shut til recently, that last monthly meeting and this posting have set the tone for our futher conversations.--- it's a shame.

You asked me today in an email if I had a small tv and/or a small dvd player because you wanted to play a McCain dvd at our next meeting of the Southern Mecklenburg GOP Club, well I don't and even if I did, I wouldn't bring it for you to play McCain stuff on. BTW, please bring my cooler to the meeting so I can have it for this weekend's fundraiser for BJ Lawson.

What's the term for Liberty lover in name only? "LINO"

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Baldwin isn't a republican (anymore), but he is a staunch conservative. I fail to see what Paul did wrong here.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Ron Paul and this Revolution are not about one political party. It's about a set of principles.

[Highland]

Ron Paul and this Revolution are not about one political party. It's about a set of principles.

qft

[rancher89]

Ken and I talked.


I'm still very upset with him for not sticking to his principles.


The idea that the fear of being stripped of your gop position would keep you from speaking or voting your mind is so foreign and ourtrageous.

I have principles.

I stand by them.

This is a free country still, right?

The idea is to show up with more people at the next conventions.

If we can't do that, they win. End of discussion. Checkmate.

If not, we win. End of story.

I know it is not that clear cut, but I stand firm on the sound principles of:

Fiscal responsibility ( duh, a lesson well learned by any small businessman.)
Accountability
Adherance to the Constitution

If it's not too late.

The fact that the government now owns or will own a large portion of our banking and insurance interests, concerns me greatly. Why bother nationalizing the business factor, when you can nationalize the banks and insurance companies and control the movement of weath that way. Make no mistake, AIG controls a large portion of the building ( and others ) industry, many of which wouldn't have the money or the backing otherwise. LLoyd's of London used to do this sort of thing, not anymore. I'm in the construction industry, I own my own business. I am very worried.

So, it goes beyond my disagreement with a 'fellow" freedom fighter, it goes to the core. Are you willing to stand up to the status quo? Where is your line in the sand?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbNIU2KEz4g

[Flash]

I hope the Dems win.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Bite your tongue! tones

[ProBlue33]

Oh how soon we forget it is the GOP that stabbed Ron Paul and his GOP supporters in the back, the delegate games and fraud that went on was crazy, and the RNC shut out Ron Paul and his supporters. They basically said to all the 1 million Ron Paul supporters go F*** yourselves.

So now we get to say screw the GOP and McCain in 2008, this fear of Obama is unfounded and panders to Americans that just worry to damm much. The GOP always sucks up to the fearful and it seems to work every election cycle.

[rancher89]

Oh how soon we forget it is the GOP that stabbed Ron Paul and his GOP supporters in the back, the delegate games and fraud that went on was crazy, and the RNC shut out Ron Paul and his supporters. They basically said to all the 1 million Ron Paul supporters go F*** yourselves.

So now we get to say screw the GOP and McCain in 2008, this fear of Obama is unfounded and panders to Americans that just worry to damm much. The GOP always sucks up to the fearful and it seems to work every election cycle.

qft

[luke-gr]

Well spoken, ProBlue33!

We've known all along and saw Dr Paul say, on numerous occasions, that he would not support McCain. I bet RP would not have endorsed anyone if Barr had just shown up for the press conference. Of course, that is just conjecture.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I find it ironic that Ron Paul is STILL A REPUBLICAN. dang. tones