I don't get this drive to get third parties up?

[klamath]

Let us take a look at this. Say McCain wins 200 electoral votes, Obama wins 200 and Barr wins 100 and Nader wins 38. We do not have a president until one of those men gets 270 electoral votes. What happens next? All those electors start making back room deals. It is very unlikely Barr or Nader will win but they will get to make deals with Obama and McCain on who to throw their votes to. So after a month or two of much political grandstanding by Nader and Barr stating how they will never throw their support behind any of the main two candidates and a great media money making era Barr throws his support behind McCain and Nader throws his support behind Obama. Now if you were a Barr voter whose second choice would have been Obama and another one of you was a Nader supporter whose second choice was McCain how would you feel? You are going to be thinking well why the hell didn't I just vote for the man I thought the best that was most likely the win?
If I was a Massachusetts voter I would be asking myself if my elected RP delegate wasn't going to vote for my man RP why didn't they vote for Fred Thompson instead of the worst of the lot McCain? It is going to be a coalition no matter what and I want to make my own decision on what coalition candidate I want to back. This year it is none. Even if I did vote for Barr and he won 10 electoral votes would I trust that slimy used car sales man to cast his 10 electoral votes to the better of the two evils? NO!

At one time I thought of backing Barr so he could get enough support to get in the debates and get our viewpoints out but I believe now with his lack of personal integrity him representing us would do more harm that good to our ideas.

So far no one has convinced me to vote for them at all this year and I don't really think that is going to change.

[pacelli]

The reason to vote for third parties is to increase their percentages so that next time around it will be easier for them to get on the ballots and perhaps get into the debates. It also sends a message that the public is dissatisfied with their pre-selected, plastic, major party candidates.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Good post. Barr ( or his handlers) shot himself in the foot. I was onboard with Barr simply to have a chance to get him into the debates. That is not going to happen. That is why I had to go with McCain...and especially because he selected Palin. Tones

[klamath]

The reason to vote for third parties is to increase their percentages so that next time around it will be easier for them to get on the ballots and perhaps get into the debates. It also sends a message that the public is dissatisfied with their pre-selected, plastic, major party candidates.

But for the reasons stated in my post I don't see it as being a step foward. If by chance one of the third parties becomes a major party it would be the same as the present two parties because it would of had to broaden its base and make coalitions.

[Acala]

I won't vote for president in this election. I have been preaching to everyone all along that the truly wasted vote is one cast for somebody you don't believe in. Now I'm going to turn around and vote for Socialist Nader? Or Bob the Spook? Or Rev. Baldwin? Or Socialist Mckinnon? I don't think so. Think I'll pass.

[klamath]

I won't vote for president in this election. I have been preaching to everyone all along that the truly wasted vote is one cast for somebody you don't believe in. Now I'm going to turn around and vote for Socialist Nader? Or Bob the Spook? Or Rev. Baldwin? Or Socialist Mckinnon? I don't think so. Think I'll pass.

Kind of where I am at. They are all vote for evil.

[GunnyFreedom]

Good post. Barr ( or his handlers) shot himself in the foot. I was onboard with Barr simply to have a chance to get him into the debates. That is not going to happen. That is why I had to go with McCain...and especially because he selected Palin. Tones

Sorry, I refuse to vote for a fascist traitor who libelously claims to be a 'strict constructionist' in order to con RP Republicans into voting for him. Sarah Palin is nothing more than an extension of the same effort he has been making by claiming to be a Strict Constructionist.

[pacelli]

But for the reasons stated in my post I don't see it as being a step foward. If by chance one of the third parties becomes a major party it would be the same as the present two parties because it would of had to broaden its base and make coalitions.

I understand your rationale! I think Ron Paul's point was that supporting third parties would make a long term difference, but I agree that in the short term it makes no measurable difference in the direction this country is traveling. The whole concept you raised of backroom deals is most troubling and has crossed my mind. It appears that the entire system is rigged for failure and corruption. Even the Palindrones are going to be surprised when McCain 'introduces her to Washington'. After what the GOP did to Ron Paul and his delegates, I can't support such a platform.

I'm in a real bad spot here in NC. I can either vote for the establishment candidates (including Barr), or write in Nader or McKinney. I can't even write in Baldwin with whom I still have some issues, because his campaign missed the write-in deadline.

[dannno]

Kind of where I am at. They are all vote for evil.

I disagree.

I disagree with Nader and McKinney because they have the wrong solution about how to fight poverty, but the difference is that are still on the side of the people. That is what Ron Paul has recognized.

If you don't want to vote for them, then don't vote for them. Write in Ron Paul or become a principled non-voter, that's all your decision. That doesn't make a vote for McKinney or Nader evil, because they agree with Ron Paul on the four most important issues facing our country.

Even Ron Paul said he would not cut benefits for those who are dependent on them.. citizen welfare is not our main concern at the moment.. Corporate welfare and the Defense Industrial Complex are our main concerns. Phasing out welfare should be the ultimate goal, but right now we need to take away the government from the corporate/fascist leadership and give it back to the people. That takes election reform and a complete overhaul of our government, which all four candidates stand for.

That's why none of the four third party candidates represent evil.

[NewFederalist]

klamath- since you vote in CA it really doesn't matter how you vote. I have seen no polls that indicate CA will not go for Obama by a wide margin. He will get all 55 electoral votes.

[Truth Warrior]

I don't get it either. Maybe it's just a placebo for the addicted voter junkies. :rolleyes:

[ryanmkeisling]

klamath- since you vote in CA it really doesn't matter how you vote. I have seen no polls that indicate CA will not go for Obama by a wide margin. He will get all 55 electoral votes.

It sure seems this will be the case. There was a huge amount of support for Ron Paul in the part of the state where I live but as the OP pointed out following the good Dr. lead will not change the system in the short term and as far as the long term I still wonder what effect it will have. Will his recent message even reach a small percentage of the 60% he claimed are unhappy with the system? Certainly not enough to see any real change. Plus as it looks right now McCain just might win.
This will have to happen on the street level helping one person at a time to see that the system is corrupt. It will not be easy as many people could care less about any of it and I fear only a radical change in their way of life, i.e. a disruption of their comfort and ability to consume, will stir them from their apathy.

[V-rod]

If Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were alive today, there would be people on this forum who would call them fascists or sellouts.

[Truth Warrior]

If Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were alive today, there would be people on this forum who would call them fascists or sellouts. Just George, not Tom. ;)

[klamath]

klamath- since you vote in CA it really doesn't matter how you vote. I have seen no polls that indicate CA will not go for Obama by a wide margin. He will get all 55 electoral votes.
yeaw I haven't had much of a say in 20 years. The funny part is almost all the counties in from the coast vote different from the bay area and LA but that is not enough overcome those huge population centers.:(

[NewFederalist]

I feel your pain. I lived in San Diego County many years ago. You are in the perfect position to cast a vote of conscience. No chance that Obama won't carry the state so no "lesser of two evils" argument. Enjoy!

[Danke]

I disagree.

I disagree with Nader and McKinney because they have the wrong solution about how to fight poverty, but the difference is that are still on the side of the people. That is what Ron Paul has recognized.

If you don't want to vote for them, then don't vote for them. Write in Ron Paul or become a principled non-voter, that's all your decision. That doesn't make a vote for McKinney or Nader evil, because they agree with Ron Paul on the four most important issues facing our country.

Even Ron Paul said he would not cut benefits for those who are dependent on them.. citizen welfare is not our main concern at the moment.. Corporate welfare and the Defense Industrial Complex are our main concerns. Phasing out welfare should be the ultimate goal, but right now we need to take away the government from the corporate/fascist leadership and give it back to the people. That takes election reform and a complete overhaul of our government, which all four candidates stand for.

That's why none of the four third party candidates represent evil.

+1

[heavenlyboy34]

If Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were alive today, there would be people on this forum who would call them fascists or sellouts.

Why do you think this?

[VIDEODROME]

I think it's about breaking the shared monopoly Republicans and Democrats have over our government and in the elections. We drop bombs on other countries in the name of spreading democracy while at home we only have 2 choices represented in our debates.

Perhaps by helping 3rd parties take a bigger chunk of the vote it can send a message to the establishment and the world that Americans are tired of choosing between the lesser of 2 evils.

For now I do plan to vote 3rd party and it will likely be for Nader who's biggest issues are reverse our aggressive foreign policy, corporate corruption, and impeaching Bush. There are a few things I disagree with him on but the biggest issues that brought me to the Ron Paul campaign are also issues Nader agrees with.

[klamath]

I think it's about breaking the shared monopoly Republicans and Democrats have over our government and in the elections. We drop bombs on other countries in the name of spreading democracy while at home we only have 2 choices represented in our debates.

Perhaps by helping 3rd parties take a bigger chunk of the vote it can send a message to the establishment and the world that Americans are tired of choosing between the lesser of 2 evils.

For now I do plan to vote 3rd party and it will likely be for Nader who's biggest issues are reverse our aggressive foreign policy, corporate corruption, and impeaching Bush. There are a few things I disagree with him on but the biggest issues that brought me to the Ron Paul campaign are also issues Nader agrees with.

First off when I speak of evils it is in a political sense and it means the choices available to me are just too far off from my politcal beliefs to compromise that far. Almost none of the candidates do I hate personally, I don't know them personally.
The american people had over 20 choices to pick from when this thing started from Kicinich to Paul. We voted for Paul but our numbers weren't great enough to get our man elected. The majority of the American people formed two coalitions, one for Obama and one for McCain.
Yes lots of Europeans countries have many candidates in the general elections but what happens then? All those little parties get together and make back room deals on who is going to be prime minister. This to me is even removing my voice farther from who is elected.
The coalitions the American people picked this time are ones I do not wish to be part of.

I know a lot of people like to scream rigged elections but I truely believe we did not have the votes to win. I argued until I was red in the face trying to convince my best friend to vote Paul but he was too stuck on not losing to the terrorists. I agree with this man on many many issues but he voted for Trancredo.

[olehounddog]

Sorry, I refuse to vote for a fascist traitor who libelously claims to be a 'strict constructionist' in order to con RP Republicans into voting for him. Sarah Palin is nothing more than an extension of the same effort he has been making by claiming to be a Strict Constructionist.

I'm with you Gunny.

[ClayTrainor]

That is why I had to go with McCain...and especially because he selected Palin. Tones

Jesus Christ, I hope this is Sarcastic!!!!:confused:

If not... you clearly dont understand much about the 2 parties and what they are doing to your country.

[heavenlyboy34]

Good post. Barr ( or his handlers) shot himself in the foot. I was onboard with Barr simply to have a chance to get him into the debates. That is not going to happen. That is why I had to go with McCain...and especially because he selected Palin. Tones

TRAITOR! You fell for the neo-con trickery! I think you ought to do some actual background research on these people before you try to push them on RP folks. :mad: Now, go back to McShame's site till you get your act together!

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

Every presidential election, Mickey Mouse gets the most write in votes. He does make a compelling case when compared with the other choices.
I am proud to admit that I have never voted for a winner. In my opinion, every new president is the worst one ever; I do not see that pattern likely to change any time soon. I refuse to vote for the worst president ever.

I cannot comprehend a scenario bizarre enough to make me vote for someone I despise so that someone I hate will not get elected. If all the non-voters get to the polls and the next president wins with only 15% of the vote, he might not be so bold to push his unpopular agenda.

A third party vote is the only way not to waste your vote--especially in a battleground state. Use your vote to tell them that you know your state may decide the election, but you don't care because both choices suck equally as bad.

[Flash]

Are there any ideas floating around about how to get Nader and them into the debates?

[tonesforjonesbones]

None of the third party people will be in the debates. Barr had a shot at it , but his fundraisers could not fundraise. It is really pathetic. He's going nowhere. The movement is watered down this go round. Maybe things will be better in 4 years. Gotta keep steppin..for now, I have to vote GOP. I can't tolerate the thought of Obama and the democrats winning. TONES

[V-rod]

Why do you think this?

Many people here are either purists or extremist in their views. Several faults and that person is thrown under the bus. First it was Palin, then Bob Barr, and I give 4-5 weeks until people turn on Pastor Chuck Baldwin.

During last couple of days before election day, I wouldn't be surprised that Radical Socialist Cynthia Mckinney is the new anointed one. :D

[GunnyFreedom]

Many people here are either purists or extremist in their views. Several faults and that person is thrown under the bus. First it was Palin, then Bob Barr, and I give 4-5 weeks until people turn on Pastor Chuck Baldwin.

During last couple of days before election day, I wouldn't be surprised that Radical Socialist Cynthia Mckinney is the new anointed one. :D

Yes, we're nuts because we don't like George W Bush either. :rolleyes:

What you don't get, is that the negatives against Palin have always been available for people who cared to look, and the negatives against Barr have always been there fr anybody who cared to look. I never supported Barr from day 1, and I never supported Palin from day 1. I didn't "turn my back" on either of them because I never supported them in the first place.

You and Tones are just sore because we RP people know better than to support a fake like Palin, and now are accusing us of insisting on an intellectual pure backwater because we refuse to support neocons in conservative clothing.

I HAVE actually supported Chuck Baldwin, because I did the research, and I know he's clean. I STILL support Baldwin, and I will continue to support Baldwin through November. I have even donated to Baldwin, even though I can't vote for him (living in North Carolina, he is not even a write-in candidate).

Why do you have to mischaracterize people who vote on principle? Is principled voting REALLY that distasteful to you?

[V-rod]

Why do you have to mischaracterize people who vote on principle? Is principled voting REALLY that distasteful to you?

Nope, as long as the people know all the issues, and do not vote simply on emotion, which seems to be common with most.

I disagree with McCain on 30% of his stances, and about 95% of Obama's.

[GunnyFreedom]

Nope, as long as the people know all the issues, and do not vote simply on emotion, which seems to be common with most.

I disagree with McCain on 30% of his stances, and about 95% of Obama's.

Yes, you do mischaracterize people. In another thread you just tried to associate me with 9/11 truthers...or at least make people associate me with them with a superficial glance.

Why be so dishonest? I really want to know, why?


ETA - OK, in the other thread, you stated that you were not trying to characterize me as a 9/11 truther. I will take you at your word for that. I apologize for thinking you were trying to use guilt-by-association as a club to beat me, without knowing that I do not associate with such in the first place. Nevertheless, I will still be keeping my eye on this. You know what they say, "once bitten twice shy;" and "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

[erika]

klamath- since you vote in CA it really doesn't matter how you vote. I have seen no polls that indicate CA will not go for Obama by a wide margin. He will get all 55 electoral votes.

Obama doesn't have a chance in hell in California. hillary crushed him here and those voters are now palin fans.

Keep dreaming, bozo.

[erika]

None of the third party people will be in the debates. Barr had a shot at it , but his fundraisers could not fundraise. It is really pathetic. He's going nowhere. The movement is watered down this go round. Maybe things will be better in 4 years. Gotta keep steppin..for now, I have to vote GOP. I can't tolerate the thought of Obama and the democrats winning. TONES

Same here, I fucking cannot stand 4 years of obozo so i'm voting for mccain instead. It's killing me but I just hate obama so much. He's a smug ivyleague shithead. Just like all the other skull n bones brigade the past many years.

People don't realize that obama voted 80 mil to the war, renewed the patriot act,
voted for Fisa, is a cfr member, was a member of a racist black church for 20 years, had ties to marxo-fascist bomber ayres, ties to criminal tony rezko.
Obama's a pro black racist, marxist and a disgrace to humanity.

Obama had an 80,000 donation from fammie mae and so many other coporations. Obama was proped up by the culutrally marxist MSM and I will not vote for the scumbag piece of shit.

end of story.

[ClayTrainor]

Same here, I fucking cannot stand 4 years of obozo so i'm voting for mccain instead. It's killing me but I just hate obama so much. He's a smug ivyleague shithead. Just like all the other skull n bones brigade the past many years.


I can't stand either of them... im amazed you can "stand" McCain. :confused:



People don't realize that obama voted 80 mil to the war, renewed the patriot act,
voted for Fisa, is a cfr member



and you think voting for McCain is somehow protesting this?




, was a member of a racist black church for 20 years, had ties to marxo-fascist bomber ayres, ties to criminal tony rezko.
Obama's a pro black racist, marxist and a disgrace to humanity.


Probably true but, if you talk to Obama supporters be nice to them, ask them questions... make them contradict themselves... their eyes tend to open up when they see what a suave liar Obama is. They are easy to convert when you take the right approach. (obama supporters already hate mccain, so they are ripe for a 3rd party vote)




Obama had an 80,000 donation from fammie mae and so many other coporations. Obama was proped up by the culutrally marxist MSM and I will not vote for the scumbag piece of shit.

end of story.

Good.. dont vote for Obama... i encourage that. I'm more baffled at your logic that tells you to go vote for McCain... why not vote 3rd party? Both of these candidates are going to completely f' shit up, so who cares...

The NWO has secured this election, long ago... It's time to vote 3rd party, and let them know that you dont want to play the "Red vs Blue" game any longer!

p.s.

Do you listen to "The Right Perspective" ? I just have a feeling :cool:

[erika]

Hi I don't even know what the "right perspective" is. Please tell me.

I'm a diehard paleocon and post on pat buchanan's website a lot. Well I used to be but now I don't have much time anymore. Pat's sort of let people down imo.

Anyway I don't see how a third party can win the pres this year. It's too divided so it's futile at this point. In 4 years it will be far different.

Hey I'm just lucky that we went back to paper ballots in our county!

Anyway I REALLY HATE, I have anger lol at obama, I think he's a piece of crap and just can't stand to watch his smug ass on tv for four years. Mccain I can handle because even though he is a traitor, we can at least prepare for the shit hitting the fan. It won't matter though, obama is said to be lined up with the neocons on iran and georgia and he just met with aipac.

Game over.

[GunnyFreedom]

Same here, I fucking cannot stand 4 years of obozo so i'm voting for mccain instead. It's killing me but I just hate obama so much. He's a smug ivyleague shithead. Just like all the other skull n bones brigade the past many years.

People don't realize that obama voted 80 mil to the war, renewed the patriot act,
voted for Fisa, is a cfr member, was a member of a racist black church for 20 years, had ties to marxo-fascist bomber ayres, ties to criminal tony rezko.
Obama's a pro black racist, marxist and a disgrace to humanity.

Obama had an 80,000 donation from fammie mae and so many other coporations. Obama was proped up by the culutrally marxist MSM and I will not vote for the scumbag piece of shit.

end of story.

Problem here is that with the current state of the economy, we will be entering a 3-5 year depression REGARDLESS of whether McCain or Obama takes office in January. And the stupid electorate will be blaming whomever is in office at the time it happens.

So, my question for you is, would you rather the electorate blame the collapse of Amrican society on an (R) or on a (D) ?

[erika]

Problem here is that with the current state of the economy, we will be entering a 3-5 year depression REGARDLESS of whether McCain or Obama takes office in January. And the stupid electorate will be blaming whomever is in office at the time it happens.

So, my question for you is, would you rather the electorate blame the collapse of Amrican society on an (R) or on a (D) ?

Re: Obama, I mean, Well, Like voting for socialism is a big improvement?

And I appreciate your point and I know both candidates suck ass but Obama is a Gun grabber. Without guns, we're fucked. It's the last bation against tyranny.

[GunnyFreedom]

Re: Obama, I mean, Well, Like voting for socialism is a big improvement?

And I appreciate your point and I know both candidates suck ass but Obama is a Gun grabber. Without guns, we're fucked. It's the last bation against tyranny.

What in the wide world of sports makes you think I'd EVER vote for Obama?

If you choose the big 2, you have a choice between Stalin on the left, and Hitler on the right.

I refuse to give my franchise to support EITHER Hitler OR Stalin.

You choose to support Hitler, and that's your perogative; but in 4 years when we're being marched to the death camps, just remember that you voted for the bastard. ;)

The only ONLY redeeming aspect of a McCain vote, is that there is a small chance that he would appoint better USSC Justices than Obama -- but even that is not a certainty.

Sorry; if someone held a rifle to my head and said, "Vote for McCain or die." I'd choose death. Likewise Obama. To me, a violent painful death is preferable to voting for either of them; and that's the God's honest truth.

[erika]

Palin and mccain won't ban guns. Obama is a gun grabber. Obama's govt. control could take away the peoples gun rights.

[GunnyFreedom]

Palin and mccain won't ban guns. Obama is a gun grabber. Obama's govt. control could take away the peoples gun rights.

Nothing can take away my gun rights. :D

You know that old sayings, "From my cold, dead hands!" ? well...

and oh yeah - Obama may only be a '4' on a scale of 1-100 on gun rights, but McCain is only a '10' on the same scale, so what difference does it really make? Remember how the NRA's "America's First Freedom" magazine has been railing against McCain as one of the worst of the worst anti-gunners for the last 8 years; and now suddenly in the last 6 issues they act like they have backed him all along?

Sorry, but I'm not fooled.

Whether it's McCain or Obama who send the shocktroops after me and my weapons it doesn't matter. I'll give them something to be shocked about. I'll teach them what t feels like to grab onto the wrong end of a chainsaw. :D :D :D

[NewFederalist]

Obama doesn't have a chance in hell in California. hillary crushed him here and those voters are now palin fans.

Keep dreaming, bozo.

Wow! At first I thought you were just frustrated and angry but now I see you just don't understand. Let me make it very clear... Obama WILL carry CA. He may have lost the primary to Hillary Clinton but he will beat McCain by a wide margin in November. If I am wrong please show me a poll that disputes this.

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

Nope, as long as the people know all the issues, and do not vote simply on emotion, which seems to be common with most.

I disagree with McCain on 30% of his stances, and about 95% of Obama's.

How is that even possible? They don't even disagree with each other that much!
If you believe that there is a difference between the two on 65% of the issues, your choice is governed by emotions.