.22 for survival

[xd9fan]

That is the title of a 1958 article written by Alfred J. Goerg in GUNS Magazine, printed in the August issue. Here is the PDF link if you would like to d/l and read it :

1 http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1958issue.html awesome old school article!!!



22LR LETHALITY TEST
2 http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=503007#Post503007


3 http://www.usrsog.org/surfire.htm
please read
good stuff

[noxagol]

CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP rounds. This is a survivalist's best friend. A shot behind the ear of a deer and you've got 150lbs of food.

[tmosley]

Wow, thanks for that. I think I'll go buy a few bricks of .22 ammo in the next few days.

[noxagol]

It's also quiet, relatively speaking. If there is a lot of ambience, most people won't recognize it's retort for for gunfire.

[Original_Intent]

It's also quiet, relatively speaking. If there is a lot of ambience, most people won't recognize it's retort for for gunfire.

You can get susonic rounds that seriously are no louder than a pellet gun.

You prob ably know this but FYI, the noice of a gunshot is not the gunpowder exposion, it is the bullet breaking the sound barrier. They make .22 rounds that don't break the sound barrier - subsonic - and they are really quiet, still plenty lethal.

[noxagol]

You can get susonic rounds that seriously are no louder than a pellet gun.

You prob ably know this but FYI, the noice of a gunshot is not the gunpowder exposion, it is the bullet breaking the sound barrier. They make .22 rounds that don't break the sound barrier - subsonic - and they are really quiet, still plenty lethal.

Yeah. Though, a subsonic round will be heard before it hits its target vs supersonic round where they dont hear it until it's too late and they don't hear it anyways. Though, the time is not enough for any real reaction.

[Dr.3D]

You prob ably know this but FYI, the noice of a gunshot is not the gunpowder exposion, it is the bullet breaking the sound barrier. They make .22 rounds that don't break the sound barrier - subsonic - and they are really quiet, still plenty lethal.

I have to question that. A silencer does not retard the speed of the bullet but still keeps the sound down. As I recall, the sound is made by the escaping gas from the muzzle of the rifle or pistol. I know my 22lr rifle is a lot quieter than my 22lr pistol. I believe this is because the pistol allows a lot more of the gas to escape before the bullet has gotten up to speed.

This can be likened to the sound a pop gun makes when the cork comes out.

[ChickenHawk]

I have to question that. A silencer does not retard the speed of the bullet but still keeps the sound down. As I recall, the sound is made by the escaping gas from the muzzle of the rifle or pistol. I know my 22lr rifle is a lot quieter than my 22lr pistol. I believe this is because the pistol allows a lot more of the gas to escape before the bullet has gotten up to speed.

This can be likened to the sound a pop gun makes when the cork comes out.


You are both correct. If you use a silencer on a gun shooting supersonic rounds it will still be fairly loud. If you us a silencer on a gun shooting subsonic rounds it will be very quiet. The gasses escaping are only part of the noise.

[FreedomFighter8008]

Sorry, but in the 1950's you didn't have people on crystal meth (or other mind altering drugs) running around. A .22 cal is virtually useless in this case. Unlike what you see in the movies, it takes a massive drop in blood pressure for someone to drop instantly from a gun shot. Shooting someone like this with a .22 gives them several seconds to do you serious harm.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I have to question that. A silencer does not retard the speed of the bullet but still keeps the sound down. As I recall, the sound is made by the escaping gas from the muzzle of the rifle or pistol. I know my 22lr rifle is a lot quieter than my 22lr pistol. I believe this is because the pistol allows a lot more of the gas to escape before the bullet has gotten up to speed.

This can be likened to the sound a pop gun makes when the cork comes out.

Actually - the first round through a silencer is a lot louder than rounds after that. The difference is the O2 reacting with the fuel of the bullet gasses - after that, the waste fuel of the gasses can't sustain combustion. There is a product out there that will quiet the first round - but you have to douse the internals of your silencer with it.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Sorry, but in the 1950's you didn't have people on crystal meth (or other mind altering drugs) running around. A .22 cal is virtually useless in this case. Unlike what you see in the movies, it takes a massive drop in blood pressure for someone to drop instantly from a gun shot. Shooting someone like this with a .22 gives them several seconds to do you serious harm.

NOT ACCURATE! - it depends on where the bullet hits. There are places that will drop a person instantly.

btw: shouldn't this thread be one sub-forum down?

As to .22 ammo - just picked up 5,000 rounds and OUCH! I remember the day when you could pick up a brick of 500 for cheap and plink all day! And the ones I got were lead bullets - I don't even want to think about the cost of copper ones like you used to be able to get for cheap!

-t

[Dieseler]

I remember hearing my Grandfather say on more than one occasion that more deer had been been killed with a .22 than any other caliber of rifle.
That was over 25 years ago though and country was country back then if you know what I mean.

[tangent4ronpaul]

That is the title of a 1958 article written by Alfred J. Goerg in GUNS Magazine, printed in the August issue. Here is the PDF link if you would like to d/l and read it :

1 http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1958issue.html awesome old school article!!!



22LR LETHALITY TEST
2 http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=503007#Post503007


3 http://www.usrsog.org/surfire.htm
please read
good stuff

Did you link to the correct issue? I don't see an article article written by Alfred J. Goerg or one about .22 rifles.

Granted, I didn't read the whole thing to try finding it... just the TOC and a quick scan.

pardon me while I scrape my tongue off the floor - those are some SWEET PRICES in the ads!

-t

[FreedomFighter8008]

it depends on where the bullet hits. There are places that will drop a person instantly.

Of course, but why limit yourself when you have a spit second to react and your life may depend on it?

[FreedomFighter8008]

I remember hearing my Grandfather say on more than one occasion that more deer had been been killed with a .22 than any other caliber of rifle.
That was over 25 years ago though and country was country back then if you know what I mean.

I didn't say you couldn't kill anything with a .22, but in a self-defense situation, you want to drop someone instantly, not piss them off and give them the time to take you with them.

[Dieseler]

I didn't say you couldn't kill anything with a .22, but in a self-defense situation, you want to drop someone instantly, not piss them off and give them the time to take you with them.

I didn't say you did.
My statement was relevant to the thread but completely independent of your post.
Now that you bring it up;
What do killing deer and killing anything that may or may not be wearing body armor with a .22 rifle have in common with one another?
Head shots.

Edit: The .22 is an excellent rifle for small game but hunting anything classified as large game like deer would be iffy in my opinion because of the shot placement you would have to guarantee in order to be sure of a clean kill.
I wouldn't feel good about delivering a mortal or crippling wound to a large game animal and then not being able to find it because it run a mile or so after the shot.

That said I certainly wouldn't balk at having this little rifle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32FgaIb66bM&feature=channel_page) in a backpack if I was going into the wilderness for an extended stay.

[tangent4ronpaul]

22LR LETHALITY TEST
2 http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=503007#Post503007


Seems like a lot of bragging about his "skills" (did he have to fire a whole brick to get those 3 hits?)
Completely neglects to spec the cartridge. - .22 rounds are not all the same. How many grains of powder? What was the weight, style and material of the bullet?
The clothing is obviously cheap China crap. Loose weave, easy penetration, cheap and fragile fabric - made to wear out.
Completely neglects to note penetration. - wow - the bullet penetrated one sheet of paper and 3 layers of really cheap cloth - I'm like soooo impressed! - NOT! Well, he mention "completely through" for one round. My initial thought is that he is lying. My second thought is that maybe it deflected and wrapped around the turkey (inside the clothing). My third thought is the side of the turkey - where it's thinner?, My forth thought is .22 hornet? - maybe custom loaded to be hot? Physics and his claims simply DO NOT JIVE!



-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

PS: I have heard of a case where a .22 struck center mass on a cop wearing level 3 body armor (with a plate). It hit at the exact moment when the heart was changing electrical activity and sent it into fibulation. He died.

In another case, a .38 hit a guy and the bible in his coat pocket saved his life.

Go figure...

-t

[H Roark]

Good post, the 22 lethality test is def worth a read.

[Dr.3D]

Wow, all I know about the 22lr HP rounds, is that they go all the way through an empty 55 gallon oil drum every time and leave a hole about the size of a dime on exiting. As for some of the posts in this thread, my salt shaker ran out of salt so I guess I'll either have to refill it or stop reading the posts.

[H Roark]

My initial thought is that he is lying. My second thought is that maybe it deflected and wrapped around the turkey (inside the clothing). My third thought is the side of the turkey - where it's thinner?, My forth thought is .22 hornet? - maybe custom loaded to be hot? Physics and his claims simply DO NOT JIVE!

I'm sure he would address your questions if you posted them on their board. I don't doubt your credentials, but what does the guy have to gain for lying about the lethality of a .22 round? To go through all that trouble in setting up the experiment only to dupe a message board of gun owners. Gimmie a break!

[xd9fan]

Did you link to the correct issue? I don't see an article article written by Alfred J. Goerg or one about .22 rifles.

Granted, I didn't read the whole thing to try finding it... just the TOC and a quick scan.

pardon me while I scrape my tongue off the floor - those are some SWEET PRICES in the ads!

-t


sorry!!!
the article is from the gunsmagazine August 1958 issue. It seems that site updates by month. I have a paper copy of the article. I'll talk with the wife on how to post it.

Its that good.

[ihsv]

I wanted to bump this cuz o' the good info.