An Entire Industry is Now Socialist

[FreedomFighter8008]

With the current takeover of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mac, the entire mortgage industry is now under socialist control. From now on, your mortgage application has to be approved by the government, not a private lending institution. I don't know about you guys, but this freaks the heck out of me.

[Truth Warrior]

Government is not supposed to be a growth industry.<IMHO> :p :rolleyes:

[torchbearer]

Privatize the gains
Socialize the loses.
corporatism.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Privatize the gains
Socialize the loses.
corporatism.

That's pretty much it!

[Micah Dardar]

A a kid, I used to admire the ideals behind socialism. Now since it is happening in front of my face, it makes me sick.

[Mattsa]

With the current takeover of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mac, the entire mortgage industry is now under socialist control. From now on, your mortgage application has to be approved by the government, not a private lending institution. I don't know about you guys, but this freaks the heck out of me.

All part of their cunning plan.

Firstly, they've just bankrupted America. The American taxpayer is going to get slaughtered to pay the interest on this debt.

Secondly, the economy is being held together with band-aid until Bush leaves the Whitehouse. The next POTUS, whether it is MCain or Obama is facing the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

Thirdly, if huge numbers of homeowners default, their homes will wll be taken under state ownership.....which they are already in effect because the US government now owns that mortgage debt.

Fourthly, If homes are repossessed by the government, this ends the whole notion of private property rights. If the state wants to install CCTV technology in your home to spy on you, your only defense will be to stand inside your front doorway with a gun.....a pretty dangerous situation I think you will agree.

This bailout is the biggest assault against private property rights in human history. It was all very predictable. It was deliberately planned. This credit bubble was not accidental. It was contrived to steal the wealth of the American people.

[Johnnybags]

You guys are very wrong calling it true socialism. We are headed towards oligarchys and a plutocratic class vs the rest of us. While they socialize the losses a whole new opportunity is at hand for the oligarchs to take over. Even those who think they are ok/rich are going to be swallowed like a mouse to a snake. The McMansion class is dead also. Its Warren Buffet types that will consolidate power with the direct assistance of the government. Anyone gauranteeing the status quo in Washington will be hansomely rewarded and given the keys to the kingdom. Proof- Ask yourself how can bondholders of institutions be paid in full while equity holders(mom and pop) be bludgeoned without a true bankruptcy filing that would assess assets- liabilities and dole out accordingly after assets are sold and liablilities paid off or negotiated? The government is siezing private property right under our noses and doling it out as they see fit.

[EPIC1934]

When has recent Capitalism has not been about socializing losses and privatizing gains?

[specsaregood]

Just wait until the govt starts placing homeless people in your govt mortgage backed houses. :) After all, can you really call it private property if the govt owns your mortgage?

[Mattsa]

When has recent Capitalism has not been about socializing losses and privatizing gains?

The 'recent capitalism' you speak of is actually CORPORATE SOCIALISM

It is the union of government and privately owned central banks controlling economic activity in nation states by manipulating the cost of lending. It is centrally planned economics because the cost of credit is fixed by the government and the Federal reserve, NOT by the market.

Mussolini described corporate capitalism as fascism.

It's an affront to call it 'capitalism' at all.

It is fascism, pure an simple.

[Pauls' Revere]

With the current takeover of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mac, the entire mortgage industry is now under socialist control. From now on, your mortgage application has to be approved by the government, not a private lending institution. I don't know about you guys, but this freaks the heck out of me.

I read somewhere (sorry forgot source) that essentially the government "is" the market. So, short of a 100% cash purchase how do we finance a home without government interference? any ideas?

[torchbearer]

I read somewhere (sorry forgot source) that essentially the government "is" the market. So, short of a 100% cash purchase how do we finance a home without government interference? any ideas?

In that scenario, home prices would plummet and be more affordable.
Why? Because no one could buy them. They are already in surplus.
Supply Demand says, houses will be cheap without outside interference and manipulation. (which causes the bubbles)

[Micah Dardar]

In that scenario, home prices would plummet and be more affordable.
Why? Because no one could buy them. They are already in surplus.
Supply Demand says, houses will be cheap without outside interference and manipulation. (which causes the bubbles)

I need to buy a house and stop renting. The prices dropping would be good for my future at the moment.

[torchbearer]

I need to buy a house and stop renting. The prices dropping would be good for my future at the moment.

If you buy a house via mortgage prior to hyper inflation hitting, you can get your house for a steal.
If the max house you can afford in $100,000. you buy it via mortgage.
Then hyper inflation hits, you are carrying around $1000 bills in your wallet, your house could be paid off with a couple months salary. assuming you can survive the crunch between price increases and wage increases.

[Mattsa]

If you buy a house via mortgage prior to hyper inflation hitting, you can get your house for a steal.
If the max house you can afford in $100,000. you buy it via mortgage.
Then hyper inflation hits, you are carrying around $1000 bills in your wallet, your house could be paid off with a couple months salary. assuming you can survive the crunch between price increases and wage increases.

Nice scenario, but hyperinflation without hyperinflation of your salary will leave you dead in the water, especially if a loaf of bread costs $50,000 and a gallon of gas is $100,000.

This unfortunately is what is going to happen and most Americans are totally unprepared for it.

There are going to be mass defaults on mortgages

[freelance]

You guys are very wrong calling it true socialism. We are headed towards oligarchys and a plutocratic class vs the rest of us. While they socialize the losses a whole new opportunity is at hand for the oligarchs to take over. Even those who think they are ok/rich are going to be swallowed like a mouse to a snake. The McMansion class is dead also. Its Warren Buffet types that will consolidate power with the direct assistance of the government. Anyone gauranteeing the status quo in Washington will be hansomely rewarded and given the keys to the kingdom. Proof- Ask yourself how can bondholders of institutions be paid in full while equity holders(mom and pop) be bludgeoned without a true bankruptcy filing that would assess assets- liabilities and dole out accordingly after assets are sold and liablilities paid off or negotiated? The government is siezing private property right under our noses and doling it out as they see fit.

And, that's why I say, it's over. Well, it's not quite over. This is when I believe it's really over. You know that small print in every mortgage that says that they can call the loan for any reason at any time. Well, when they've worked their way up the food chain to home owners who have never missed a payment, and they call those loans, that's when I'm bailing. HOW are they going to pay China/Russia, et al. back? With our property. That's the only left of any value over here.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Privatize the gains
Socialize the loses.
corporatism.

Privatize the losses
Socialize the gains.
socialism.

[PatriotOne]

With the current takeover of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mac, the entire mortgage industry is now under socialist control. From now on, your mortgage application has to be approved by the government, not a private lending institution. I don't know about you guys, but this freaks the heck out of me.

Since Gov debts are protected from a person filing for relief through bankruptcy, if this means a person will no longer be able to relieve themselves of a mortgage debt (or perhaps just mortgage debts after the changeover).

Sorry if this is a stupid question as I am not quite sure what the Gov takeover of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac means.

[Mattsa]

Since Gov debts are protected from a person filing for relief through bankruptcy, if this means a person will no longer be able to relieve themselves of a mortgage debt (or perhaps just mortgage debts after the changeover).

Sorry if this is a stupid question as I am not quite sure what the Gov takeover of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac means.

Exactly.

You won't be able to run away from your debts.

[Pauls' Revere]

And, that's why I say, it's over. Well, it's not quite over. This is when I believe it's really over. You know that small print in every mortgage that says that they can call the loan for any reason at any time. Well, when they've worked their way up the food chain to home owners who have never missed a payment, and they call those loans, that's when I'm bailing. HOW are they going to pay China/Russia, et al. back? With our property. That's the only left of any value over here.

Thats the scenario they pulled before the depression. They called in the loans to cover losses in the market. So, your saying they could call in the loans (mortages) which people would/could default on then seize the property and resell it to say foriegn interest!?!? Then, the only sure fire way to outright "own" is to a) pay off your mortage if your in one or b) purchase a house with a 100% cash purchase.

[Mattsa]

Thats the scenario they pulled before the depression. They called in the loans to cover losses in the market. So, your saying they could call in the loans (mortages) which people would/could default on then seize the property and resell it to say foriegn interest!?!? Then, the only sure fire way to outright "own" is to a) pay off your mortage if your in one or b) purchase a house with a 100% cash purchase.

Correct.

It's a desperate situation frankly

We are going to find ourselves in a similar position here in the UK very shortly. They are already discussing plans for local county councils to take possession of repossessed property and rent it back to the owners.

It's the biggest assault on private property rights in human history.

In 1933, FDR seized America's gold. This time the government is coming for all your property assets.

Time for civil war approaches I fear.

[torchbearer]

Correct.

It's a desperate situation frankly

We are going to find ourselves in a similar position here in the UK very shortly. They are already discussing plans for local county councils to take possession of repossessed property and rent it back to the owners.

It's the biggest assault on private property rights in human history.

In 1933, FDR seized America's gold. This time the government is coming for all your property assets.

Time for civil war approaches I fear.

welcome to modern day feudalism.
Our road to serfdom.
We already have our Shire Reeves (sheriffs) in place for our monarchy by election.

[amy31416]

Next house I buy? Cash. No mortgages anymore for me. I don't care if I could get something nicer with a loan, it's not worth it.

[Danke]

Next house I buy? Cash. No mortgages anymore for me. I don't care if I could get something nicer with a loan, it's not worth it.

Good on you for principles... but since they have a monopoly on money (debt instruments) why not use that to your advantage? It would be wiser for most people to put money in hard assets like gold and silver and pay interest to the banks for a home that eventually will be worth more due to inflation and your debt less for the same reasons.

Also, you can walk away from debt and keep your home.

[Truth Warrior]

Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism.
Ron Paul (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/ronpaul381828.html)

[Mattsa]

Good on you for principles... but since they have a monopoly on money (debt instruments) why not use that to your advantage? It would be wiser for most people to put money in hard assets like gold and silver and pay interest to the banks for a home that eventually will be worth more due to inflation and your debt less for the same reasons.

Also, you can walk away from debt and keep your home.

Is that true for government owned debt

Fannie Mae Freedie Mac mortgage debt is 53% of the entire US mortgage market. I don't think the government will let you walk away from your obligations. They'll seize you home for sure, but possibly chase you for the difference if the outstanding debt isn't cleared by resale.

Does anyone know what the situation is with respect to government owned debt?

[freelance]

Thats the scenario they pulled before the depression. They called in the loans to cover losses in the market. So, your saying they could call in the loans (mortages) which people would/could default on then seize the property and resell it to say foriegn interest!?!? Then, the only sure fire way to outright "own" is to a) pay off your mortage if your in one or b) purchase a house with a 100% cash purchase.

That's exactly what we did, and we plan to rent during our absence, since we suspect that people will need rentals. If they trash it, oh well.

[freelance]

Is that true for government owned debt

Fannie Mae Freedie Mac mortgage debt is 53% of the entire US mortgage market. I don't think the government will let you walk away from your obligations. They'll seize you home for sure, but possibly chase you for the difference if the outstanding debt isn't cleared by resale.

Does anyone know what the situation is with respect to government owned debt?

Oh my! I hadn't even thought of that possibility. WHAT are people going to do?

[torchbearer]

Is that true for government owned debt

Fannie Mae Freedie Mac mortgage debt is 53% of the entire US mortgage market. I don't think the government will let you walk away from your obligations. They'll seize you home for sure, but possibly chase you for the difference if the outstanding debt isn't cleared by resale.

Does anyone know what the situation is with respect to government owned debt?

the only debt you can't get out of is student loan.

[freelance]

the only debt you can't get out of is student loan.

Give it time. Congress is in session. :eek:

[PatriotOne]

the only debt you can't get out of is student loan.


Not quite.

If you're doing a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, you can't discharge:


Taxes and tax liens
Student loans
Domestic support obligations (child support and alimony)
Luxury goods over $500 purchased within 90 days of filing
Fines or penalties of government agencies
Cash advances of more than $750 taken within 70 days of filing
Fraudulent debts
Willful or malicious injury to another
Death or personal injury from the operation of a motor vehicle, aircraft or vessel while intoxicated
Condominium or cooperative association fees
Debts not listed on your schedules

[torchbearer]

Not quite.

If you're doing a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, you can't discharge:


Taxes and tax liens
Student loans
Domestic support obligations (child support and alimony)
Luxury goods over $500 purchased within 90 days of filing
Fines or penalties of government agencies
Cash advances of more than $750 taken within 70 days of filing
Fraudulent debts
Willful or malicious injury to another
Death or personal injury from the operation of a motor vehicle, aircraft or vessel while intoxicated
Condominium or cooperative association fees
Debts not listed on your schedules


I wasn't talking about any specific type of bankruptcy.
And of course, there are other obligations, but i was talking about loans. that is what i was talking about with the word debt, in context of the previous post