No more LP and Barr bashing.

[zahirakids]

This will probably be my last post here.

I have been a member of the LP since 1998. I have run for office multiple times. I took a break from my party to caucus for Ron Paul. I saw so many ignorant posts here bashing the LP. People need to remember that the people who have been supporting Ron Paul's campaigns over the years were Libertarians. We took the LP bashing and still supported Ron Paul with the understanding that he would help to hold together the freedom movement.

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for President. This can only hurt this movement. Many people here see them selves as the freedom movement. The LP has been around since 1971 fighting for freedom. Where were all of you when Harry Browne was running for President or Badnarik. Where were you when the Vermont LP was trying to raise $10,000 to fully fund our state house candidates in 2006. Yes the LP will continue to be the party of freedom.

To all the people who keep bashing Barr and then post "VOTE BALDWIN" if you actually read the CP platform you would see how far they are from Ron Paul's policies. A government based on the CP platform would see Christian morals imposed by threat of violence on the masses.

If you wonder why there is such a consensus against Barr here it is because most of the bLibertarians got sick of all this and have left. I have better things to do then argue with you. I have campaigns to work on. We have a good chance of electing a Libertarian Attorney General in Vermont. I posted this here before but you guys could give a $hit, you would rather bash Barr for not showing up to an event.

Do you Remember when Ron Paul backed out on Glen Beck? Everyone was pissed at Beck because he would not let it go. You people are no better.

I will be voting for Bob Barr and will continue to fight for freedom with the LP.

Ben Todd
www.vtlp.org (http://vtlp.org)

[jonhowe]

Good, the neocons need all the support they can get.

[ARealConservative]

this will probably be my last post here.

I have been a member of the lp since 1998. I have run for office multiple times. I took a break from my party to caucus for ron paul. I saw so many ignorant posts here bashing the lp. People need to remember that the people who have been supporting ron paul's campaigns over the years were libertarians. We took the lp bashing and still supported ron paul with the understanding that he would help to hold together the freedom movement.

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for president. This can only hurt this movement. Many people here see them selves as the freedom movement. The lp has been around since 1971 fighting for freedom. Where were all of you when harry browne was running for president or badnarik. Where were you when the vermont lp was trying to raise $10,000 to fully fund our state house candidates in 2006. Yes the lp will continue to be the party of freedom.

To all the people who keep bashing barr and then post "vote baldwin" if you actually read the cp platform you would see how far they are from ron paul's policies. A government based on the cp platform would see christian morals imposed by threat of violence on the masses.

If you wonder why there is such a consensus against barr here it is because most of the blibertarians got sick of all this and have left. I have better things to do then argue with you. I have campaigns to work on. We have a good chance of electing a libertarian attorney general in vermont. I posted this here before but you guys could give a $hit, you would rather bash barr for not showing up to an event.

Do you remember when ron paul backed out on glen beck? Everyone was pissed at beck because he would not let it go. You people are no better.

I will be voting for bob barr and will continue to fight for freedom with the lp.

Ben todd
www.vtlp.org (http://vtlp.org)

+1776

[swirling_vortex]

I agree. Regardless if you like Barr or not, we should still be working together to help spread the message of freedom and the LP represents that. Infighting only makes us look like fools.

Of course, I think we're all a little spoiled by Ron Paul too. :)

[Danke]

I don't think people are abandoning the LP. Just Bob Barr. Doesn't change things on a more local level. It is about the particular candidate running, not the party. Many Republicans are not voting for McCain, but will work to get liberty minded Republicans elected.

[Rhys]

it is true, and if we continue, it will be just like fighting over lipstick and hesaid/shesaid

[IHaveaDream]

I think my last post will probably be coming soon as well. It seems like this place and the Daily Paul have both been taken over by juvenile delinquents who are only becoming more and more of an embarassment to this movement. They have no substantive discussions to offer. All they can do is flame people with their immature responses. It's like holding a debate in a nursery. It's really a shame, too. There used to be true libertarian spirit of "live and let live" here. Sadly, this Campaign for Liberty is eroding into the "campaign to nowhere".

[jcarcinogen]

This is the RON PAUL forums right?

Why can't we say what we want to say, Barr pissed us off?

[muzzled dogg]

lol did this dude just say bibletarians?

[Danke]

To all the people who keep bashing Barr and then post "VOTE BALDWIN" if you actually read the CP platform you would see how far they are from Ron Paul's policies. A government based on the CP platform would see Christian morals imposed by threat of violence on the masses.


Have you read the Republican Platform? Many would say the same thing as to why they couldn't vote for Ron Paul with that line of reasoning.

How many have followed the platform once elected?

Judge a man by his character and his past actions. Sorry, Bob Barr loses in that regard.

[nobody's_hero]

I will be joining the LP, actually - if for no other reason than to prevent this from happening again, and making sure that the candidate for the LP is 100% genuine. I have high hopes for the party, but upon reading a letter put out by David Nolan and seeing that one of its original founders is unhappy with its management, I am finally thinking that Barr is just not the best man for the job.

I do think there was always tension between the CP and the LP.

But, this is liberty: Raw, unedited, unscripted.

[jcarcinogen]

I think it's healthy unless people run off and splinter. Like Ike, the storm will pass in a few days.

[AJ Antimony]

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for President. This can only hurt this movement.

You have absolutely NO argument unless you can successfully prove how not endorsing a single candidate hurts the movement. Until then, all you are basing your statement on is pure speculation.

[Joe3113]

This will probably be my last post here.

I have been a member of the LP since 1998. I have run for office multiple times. I took a break from my party to caucus for Ron Paul. I saw so many ignorant posts here bashing the LP. People need to remember that the people who have been supporting Ron Paul's campaigns over the years were Libertarians. We took the LP bashing and still supported Ron Paul with the understanding that he would help to hold together the freedom movement.

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for President. This can only hurt this movement. Many people here see them selves as the freedom movement. The LP has been around since 1971 fighting for freedom. Where were all of you when Harry Browne was running for President or Badnarik. Where were you when the Vermont LP was trying to raise $10,000 to fully fund our state house candidates in 2006. Yes the LP will continue to be the party of freedom.

To all the people who keep bashing Barr and then post "VOTE BALDWIN" if you actually read the CP platform you would see how far they are from Ron Paul's policies. A government based on the CP platform would see Christian morals imposed by threat of violence on the masses.

If you wonder why there is such a consensus against Barr here it is because most of the bLibertarians got sick of all this and have left. I have better things to do then argue with you. I have campaigns to work on. We have a good chance of electing a Libertarian Attorney General in Vermont. I posted this here before but you guys could give a $hit, you would rather bash Barr for not showing up to an event.

Do you Remember when Ron Paul backed out on Glen Beck? Everyone was pissed at Beck because he would not let it go. You people are no better.

I will be voting for Bob Barr and will continue to fight for freedom with the LP.

Ben Todd
www.vtlp.org (http://vtlp.org)

Looking in from another country, I see Barr as a political opportunist who is not interested in ideology. He does not speak passionately about libertarianism and he doesn't even understand that the reason Ron Paul has so much support is because what he preaches comes from his heart. That has been the case whether he was an unknown congressmen, considered to be a kook, fringe lunatic, only popular in his district OR a figure now wildly popular worldwide.

Ron Paul has earnt the trust he receives over 30+ years. On the other hand, Barr has a long record of voting as a right-wing reactionary. People do not change so easily, especially when they are adults and have ingrained personalities.

Barr's demeanor, his calculated oratory skills, his dark-framed glasses ..... these are the calling cards of a skilled politician and his tools of persuasion, not a dedicated ideologue. When Ron Paul speaks he fumbles with words, he does not attempt any form of superficial persuasion and his demeanor is that of a genuine human being that you would chat to in your neighborhood.

A further point regarding your website (which you have a link to in your signature) .... I find it quite amusing that your Vermont Libertarian Party celebrates the theory of Milton Friedman, a wall-street puppet and fake libertarian, who supports fiat currency and abuses people who support commodity standards as lunatics, people like Ron Paul. Milton Friedman is basically a counter-gang designed to wreck true libertarianism in the classic divide-and-conquer method, and guide true libertarians back into the jaws of imperialist government.

[Kludge]

"We're not against the soldiers, we're against the war!"?

[Flash]

Some of you Libertarians have this weird loyalty to the party. Do you realize its just a political party? And you're at the point where you want every RP fan to be in 100% agreement with your views, or else you'll threaten to leave. You want people to be mindless sheep and support anyone that a party spits out then you're at the wrong forum. This is the "Ron Paul Forums" not the "Libertarian Party forums".



Where were all of you when Harry Browne was running for President or Badnarik. Where were you when the Vermont LP was trying to raise $10,000 to fully fund our state house candidates in 2006. Yes the LP will continue to be the party of freedom.

Whats the purpose of this? You'll never get 15% to get into the Presidential debates and people will continue voting either for Dems or Republicans. The whole, "Yeah but if enough people voted for us then..." argument is unrealistic. Third Partys are great for a protest vote, period. Unless they could somehow get into the debates which is what Ron Paul was trying to aim for, but your Bob Barr didn't like that there were other candidates there.


And I find it disgusting how Bob Barr wanted to be in the national debates but didn't stand up for the right of The Green Party and Ralph Nader to be in the debate. I guess its only unfair when its happening to you, right?

Libertarian Party: Get us in the debates! Just don't invite the Consitutionalists, Greens, or independents.

[Jamsie 567]

I lost any respect I had for Barr and he also lost my vote. I don't vote based off party politics just off principle and integrity. Barr showed he wasn't dependable and a flake. I hope the LP party backs someone who can stick to their word next time it was a lame move. To the rude people who offended you they insulted us all, not just you. You fail because they called us fringe from the beginning and your diecison to turn tail makes them right.

Good luck,

[newyearsrevolution08]

This will probably be my last post here.

I have been a member of the LP since 1998. I have run for office multiple times. I took a break from my party to caucus for Ron Paul. I saw so many ignorant posts here bashing the LP. People need to remember that the people who have been supporting Ron Paul's campaigns over the years were Libertarians. We took the LP bashing and still supported Ron Paul with the understanding that he would help to hold together the freedom movement.

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for President. This can only hurt this movement. Many people here see them selves as the freedom movement. The LP has been around since 1971 fighting for freedom. Where were all of you when Harry Browne was running for President or Badnarik. Where were you when the Vermont LP was trying to raise $10,000 to fully fund our state house candidates in 2006. Yes the LP will continue to be the party of freedom.

To all the people who keep bashing Barr and then post "VOTE BALDWIN" if you actually read the CP platform you would see how far they are from Ron Paul's policies. A government based on the CP platform would see Christian morals imposed by threat of violence on the masses.

If you wonder why there is such a consensus against Barr here it is because most of the bLibertarians got sick of all this and have left. I have better things to do then argue with you. I have campaigns to work on. We have a good chance of electing a Libertarian Attorney General in Vermont. I posted this here before but you guys could give a $hit, you would rather bash Barr for not showing up to an event.

Do you Remember when Ron Paul backed out on Glen Beck? Everyone was pissed at Beck because he would not let it go. You people are no better.

I will be voting for Bob Barr and will continue to fight for freedom with the LP.

Ben Todd
www.vtlp.org (http://vtlp.org)

I am not voting for the PARTY but rather the candidate, in your theory the republican party is FAR FROM what ron paul is and there he sits as a republican as do many of us here in this forum. A party does not define a candidate and if a candidate is 100% inline with everything a party stands for then odds are they are simply doing so in hopes of gaining endorsements and other perks.

Ron Paul is not even 100% inline with everything we all believe in either BUT we happily supported him. Barr just like baldwin are being supported BECAUSE ron paul is not running, if ron paul was on ANY ticket we would not even be discussing barr or baldwin and even YOU know that.

People simply went to barr, baldwin as a way to vote AGAINST the 2 party system even while they do not agree 100% with baldwin or barr BUT rather would help show support AGAINST the current democratic and republican foothold on our elections.

[Flash]

Infighting only makes us look like fools.

When I use to talk about Ron Paul on a lot of Republican political forums, people said the EXACT same thing word to word. They kept saying that everyone should united behind the party not candidate. And people wonder how we lost the Republican Party in the first place.

[shaunish]

This will probably be my last post here.

I have been a member of the LP since 1998. I have run for office multiple times. I took a break from my party to caucus for Ron Paul. I saw so many ignorant posts here bashing the LP. People need to remember that the people who have been supporting Ron Paul's campaigns over the years were Libertarians. We took the LP bashing and still supported Ron Paul with the understanding that he would help to hold together the freedom movement.

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for President. This can only hurt this movement. Many people here see them selves as the freedom movement. The LP has been around since 1971 fighting for freedom. Where were all of you when Harry Browne was running for President or Badnarik. Where were you when the Vermont LP was trying to raise $10,000 to fully fund our state house candidates in 2006. Yes the LP will continue to be the party of freedom.

To all the people who keep bashing Barr and then post "VOTE BALDWIN" if you actually read the CP platform you would see how far they are from Ron Paul's policies. A government based on the CP platform would see Christian morals imposed by threat of violence on the masses.

If you wonder why there is such a consensus against Barr here it is because most of the bLibertarians got sick of all this and have left. I have better things to do then argue with you. I have campaigns to work on. We have a good chance of electing a Libertarian Attorney General in Vermont. I posted this here before but you guys could give a $hit, you would rather bash Barr for not showing up to an event.

Do you Remember when Ron Paul backed out on Glen Beck? Everyone was pissed at Beck because he would not let it go. You people are no better.

I will be voting for Bob Barr and will continue to fight for freedom with the LP.

Ben Todd
www.vtlp.org (http://vtlp.org)

i completely agree with you, as i am very frustrated with the abundant negativity on these boards.

[Razmear]

As a former Vermonter I have a lot of respect for the VTLP, and yes I voted for Browne and Badnarik. Browne was the man who turned me from a small l libertarian into a Libertarian.

That being said, I have no respect at all for Bob Barr and felt that way long before the Ron Paul snub.

Good luck in the VT Elections, and keep up the good work. Say hi to Hardy for me too while your at it.

eb formerly of St J

[Danke]

Looking in from another country, I see Barr as a political opportunist who is not interested in ideology. He does not speak passionately about libertarianism and he doesn't even understand that the reason Ron Paul has so much support is because what he preaches comes from his heart. That has been the case whether he was an unknown congressmen, considered to be a kook, fringe lunatic, only popular in his district OR a figure now wildly popular worldwide.

Ron Paul has earnt the trust he receives over 30+ years. On the other hand, Barr has a long record of voting as a right-wing reactionary. People do not change so easily, especially when they are adults and have ingrained personalities.

Barr's demeanor, his calculated oratory skills, his dark-framed glasses ..... these are the calling cards of a skilled politician and his tools of persuasion, not a dedicated ideologue. When Ron Paul speaks he fumbles with words, he does not attempt any form of superficial persuasion and his demeanor is that of a genuine human being that you would chat to in your neighborhood.

A further point regarding your website (which you have a link to in your signature) .... I find it quite amusing that your Vermont Libertarian Party celebrates the theory of Milton Friedman, a wall-street puppet and fake libertarian, who supports fiat currency and abuses people who support commodity standards as lunatics, people like Ron Paul. Milton Friedman is basically a counter-gang designed to wreck true libertarianism in the classic divide-and-conquer method, and guide true libertarians back into the jaws of imperialist government.

Nicely said. Thank you.

[rockandrollsouls]

This will probably be my last post here.

I have been a member of the LP since 1998. I have run for office multiple times. I took a break from my party to caucus for Ron Paul. I saw so many ignorant posts here bashing the LP. People need to remember that the people who have been supporting Ron Paul's campaigns over the years were Libertarians. We took the LP bashing and still supported Ron Paul with the understanding that he would help to hold together the freedom movement.

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for President. This can only hurt this movement. Many people here see them selves as the freedom movement. The LP has been around since 1971 fighting for freedom. Where were all of you when Harry Browne was running for President or Badnarik. Where were you when the Vermont LP was trying to raise $10,000 to fully fund our state house candidates in 2006. Yes the LP will continue to be the party of freedom.

To all the people who keep bashing Barr and then post "VOTE BALDWIN" if you actually read the CP platform you would see how far they are from Ron Paul's policies. A government based on the CP platform would see Christian morals imposed by threat of violence on the masses.

If you wonder why there is such a consensus against Barr here it is because most of the bLibertarians got sick of all this and have left. I have better things to do then argue with you. I have campaigns to work on. We have a good chance of electing a Libertarian Attorney General in Vermont. I posted this here before but you guys could give a $hit, you would rather bash Barr for not showing up to an event.

Do you Remember when Ron Paul backed out on Glen Beck? Everyone was pissed at Beck because he would not let it go. You people are no better.

I will be voting for Bob Barr and will continue to fight for freedom with the LP.

Ben Todd
www.vtlp.org (http://vtlp.org)

Great post and you hit the nail on the head with the Beck comparison.

While I don't agree with your assessment on the CP and Baldwin, I do agree that it's time to stop bashing Barr and the LP. I still haven't decided who to vote for, but I have been, historically, Libertarian (people here think I'm a henchman for Barr just because I will vouch for him when no one else will).

[constituent]

lol.

[swirling_vortex]

When I use to talk about Ron Paul on a lot of Republican political forums, people said the EXACT same thing word to word. They kept saying that everyone should united behind the party not candidate. And people wonder how we lost the Republican Party in the first place.
True, you do bring up a good point. I was mainly referring to statements such as, "I don't like Barr because he's not exactly like Mary Ruwart." Candidates should be able to accept criticism when their policies don't line up, but when the bashing becomes relentless without any substance, it begins to look on the outside. That's what separates those who wish to defend freedom and defy party lines vs. those who only care about lipstick & pigs.

[hrdman2luv]

I think my last post will probably be coming soon as well. It seems like this place and the Daily Paul have both been taken over by juvenile delinquents who are only becoming more and more of an embarassment to this movement. They have no substantive discussions to offer. All they can do is flame people with their immature responses. It's like holding a debate in a nursery. It's really a shame, too. There used to be true libertarian spirit of "live and let live" here. Sadly, this Campaign for Liberty is eroding into the "campaign to nowhere".

I know what you mean. I posted something about Ron Paul "NOT" endorcing anyone that the CFL kick off, and all people could do was tell me to stop crying. This is getting to silly. It's like you can't even have a conversation. Or speak your mind about certain things.

I posted something about Bob Barr, about his ties to the NEOCONS and his voting record and was attacked severly. And no one seem to understand that I'm fairly new to this whole political scene. So, I was really turned off by people who love freedom, but won't allow me the same freedom to express my own concerns without bashing the crap out of me.

I still don't know who I'm gonna vote for. And even I did, I wouldn't tell anyone in here because I would be slammed by someone.

You know, I'm not and no one else in here is a member of the MSM. And we don't deserve to be slammed because we have different political views.
I don't see Ron Paul slamming Obama or McCain.

[reduen]

That's a good idea! Keep running on the Libertarian ticket and keep loosing!

Look how much it has accomplished since 1972! Do we have more or less liberty now then in 1972?

Look at how much closer you are to having a candidate actually win!

My aunt was right, she said that you all would never get anywhere. She was with the Libertarian party for over two decades and finally got smart and left them!

Maybe Dr. Paul is smarter than you give him credit for. Maybe he knows it will take all that we have from every other party to actually get something done!! Maybe he is smart enough to know what it will take to WIN..!

You people may be ok with failure but I for one am not! It may be ok to you that your candidate makes a "good show of it" but I for one am ready to win this fight!

Go smoke your dope or crack or whatever and talk about how unfair the world is. Go kill your baby because it is "your choice and nobody can tell you what to do with your body" and then complain about all the other bad people in the world and how all the neocons children are so mean and wrong.

Go talk about how your party might actually raise $1 million dollars this time.., yay! That will bring this country back closer to the Great Republic it once was.....:rolleyes:

Go gripe about how the government wont let you do whatever you want with your money and time and labor and then gripe because the neocons have used all of their money, time and labor taking control of everything...

If you are so stuck on one man or one "party" that you can not set aside your petty differences with other men or political parties to advance the cause of LIBERTY, then please just Go............

[hopeforamerica]

Looking in from another country, I see Barr as a political opportunist who is not interested in ideology. He does not speak passionately about libertarianism and he doesn't even understand that the reason Ron Paul has so much support is because what he preaches comes from his heart. That has been the case whether he was an unknown congressmen, considered to be a kook, fringe lunatic, only popular in his district OR a figure now wildly popular worldwide.

Ron Paul has earnt the trust he receives over 30+ years. On the other hand, Barr has a long record of voting as a right-wing reactionary. People do not change so easily, especially when they are adults and have ingrained personalities.

Barr's demeanor, his calculated oratory skills, his dark-framed glasses ..... these are the calling cards of a skilled politician and his tools of persuasion, not a dedicated ideologue. When Ron Paul speaks he fumbles with words, he does not attempt any form of superficial persuasion and his demeanor is that of a genuine human being that you would chat to in your neighborhood.

A further point regarding your website (which you have a link to in your signature) .... I find it quite amusing that your Vermont Libertarian Party celebrates the theory of Milton Friedman, a wall-street puppet and fake libertarian, who supports fiat currency and abuses people who support commodity standards as lunatics, people like Ron Paul. Milton Friedman is basically a counter-gang designed to wreck true libertarianism in the classic divide-and-conquer method, and guide true libertarians back into the jaws of imperialist government.


Love this well thought out post!

[RonPaulR3VOLUTION]

Bob Fubarr is a scam, and many Libertarians want to strong arm people into supporting their party the same way the Republicrats do. You'd think Libertarians of all people would know that's not going to work on the people who support Ron Paul. Bob Barr, out of everyone who was invited, was the only one who didn't show up and then had a big stink over it.

If Libertarians really care about their party and want it supported, here is what they would do.

1. Stop apologizing for Barr and stop attacking Ron Paul in an attempt to make Barr look better.
2. Announce that they would consider all votes as being for the Libertarian principles (and/or Ron Paul) and not for Barr.
3. Make a statement they will always go with principle as they move forward and not compromise away principles for a supposed better turnout.

Members of the Libertarian Party who continue to defend Barr's actions while attacking Ron Paul will only further distance themselves and bring about anger. They are beginning to remind me of the staunch Bush supporters, and that's not a good sign. The more Libertarians defend Barr over their own party, the less reason people will see to even help them get ballot access.

And before attacking me personally...

"Well-known co-founder of the [Libertarian Party]": The Barr Campaign is Over
http://www.nolanchart.com/article4805.html

In my opinion, if Barr is the only option in your state, vote to support the Libertarian Party this time around, and keep a close eye on them to decide if it'd be wise to do so again in the future. I think they'd still get a lot of votes if they framed the argument this way instead of attacking Ron Paul. But if they'd like to bury themselves, that's fine too. Maybe it'd turn out to be for the best.

Also, the Barr campaign has a history of attacking Ron Paul. Does the Barr campaign ever attack anyone other than Ron Paul? He seems to be their only target...

Ron Paul set up the Libertarian Party to have amazing results this election. If they are having issues due to their poor choice of Barr, that's their problem. Trying to place any of the blame on Ron Paul is just ridiculous.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I think my last post will probably be coming soon as well. It seems like this place and the Daily Paul have both been taken over by juvenile delinquents who are only becoming more and more of an embarassment to this movement. They have no substantive discussions to offer. All they can do is flame people with their immature responses. It's like holding a debate in a nursery. It's really a shame, too. There used to be true libertarian spirit of "live and let live" here. Sadly, this Campaign for Liberty is eroding into the "campaign to nowhere".

I agree. This anti-Barr stuff has been a bit excessive. I think this forum has been very soft on Obama and McCain. Too soft.

[reduen]

That's a good idea! Keep running on the Libertarian ticket and keep loosing!

Look how much it has accomplished since 1972! Do we have more or less liberty now then in 1972?

Look at how much closer you are to having a candidate actually win!

My aunt was right, she said that you all would never get anywhere. She was with the Libertarian party for over two decades and finally got smart and left them!

Maybe Dr. Paul is smarter than you give him credit for. Maybe he knows it will take all that we have from every other party to actually get something done!! Maybe he is smart enough to know what it will take to WIN..!

You people may be ok with failure but I for one am not! It may be ok to you that your candidate makes a "good show of it" but I for one am ready to win this fight!

Go smoke your dope or crack or whatever and talk about how unfair the world is. Go kill your baby because it is "your choice and nobody can tell you what to do with your body" and then complain about all the other bad people in the world and how all the neocons children are so mean and wrong.

Go talk about how your party might actually raise $1 million dollars this time.., yay! That will bring this country back closer to the Great Republic it once was.....:rolleyes:

Go gripe about how the government wont let you do whatever you want with your money and time and labor and then gripe because the neocons have used all of their money, time and labor taking control of everything...

If you are so stuck on one man or one "party" that you can not set aside your petty differences with other men or political parties to advance the cause of LIBERTY, then please just Go............

Love this well thought out post!!! Whoo hooo!!

Oh, wait, I forgot to use my other account so I could fool everyone into thinking someone really cares about what I say.... :0 lol!

[libertarian4321]

I have been a member of the LP since 1998. I have run for office multiple times. I took a break from my party to caucus for Ron Paul. I saw so many ignorant posts here bashing the LP. People need to remember that the people who have been supporting Ron Paul's campaigns over the years were Libertarians. We took the LP bashing and still supported Ron Paul with the understanding that he would help to hold together the freedom movement.

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for President. This can only hurt this movement. Many people here see them selves as the freedom movement.
www.vtlp.org (http://vtlp.org)

I have been a long time Libertarian. This is the first year since 1998 that I haven't run for office as a Libertarian.

That said, however, much of the scorn that is being heaped upon Barr is righteously deserved.

Lets face it, Barr was a pretty sketchy candidate for the LP to choose to begin with (it wasn't all that many years ago that the LP targeted Barr and helped get him kicked out of congress)- I suspect the desire to have a candidate with at least some name recognition won out over choosing a candidate who truly represented libertarian principals.

Still, despite my serious misgivings about Barr, I was supporting him. After his shenanigans this past week, I'm no longer actively supporting him- I'll probably reluctantly vote for him as the "lesser of 4 evils" here in Texas (McBama, Barr, and Nader on the ballot).

I'm not sure what Barr was thinking- but if his intention was to sabotage his own campaign, he did so in spectacular fashion!

I won't support Baldwin, either- he's not on the ballot, and frankly, he's entirely too preachy.

Hopefully, the LP can get back on track in 2012 and nominate a real libertarian, not a (maybe) converted neocon. We could use a good man like Harry Browne in 2012.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I have been a long time Libertarian. This is the first year since 1998 that I haven't run for office as a Libertarian.

That said, however, much of the scorn that is being heaped upon Barr is righteously deserved.

Lets face it, Barr was a pretty sketchy candidate for the LP to choose to begin with (it wasn't all that many years ago that the LP targeted Barr and helped get him kicked out of congress)- I suspect the desire to have a candidate with at least some name recognition won out over choosing a candidate who truly represented libertarian principals.

Still, despite my serious misgivings about Barr, I was supporting him. After his shenanigans this past week, I'm no longer actively supporting him- I'll probably reluctantly vote for him as the "lesser of 4 evils" here in Texas (McBama, Barr, and Nader on the ballot).

I'm not sure what Barr was thinking- but if his intention was to sabotage his own campaign, he did so in spectacular fashion!

I won't support Baldwin, either- he's not on the ballot, and frankly, he's entirely too preachy.

Hopefully, the LP can get back on track in 2012 and nominate a real libertarian, not a (maybe) converted neocon. We could use a good man like Harry Browne in 2012.

Barr has his own campaign to run that doesn't revolve around Ron Paul. But that's my unbiased viewpoint. ;) Bob Barr was setting up his own press conference I think. I wouldn't say Bob Barr is as principled as RP, but I think the anti-Barr hysteria has been excessive, all I've seen were anti-Barr threads clogging up the screen just because he chose not to attend a meeting. :rolleyes: And, to top the cake, I saw well-known Barr opponents creating threads saying, "Bob Barr lost my vote." But he never had your vote to begin with LOL. But that's me. I think y'all should be focusing your anger towards Obama and McCain. Barr has enough to deal with, being third party and all, enough is enough. And it's a private organization that chose its leader, fair and square, you should try better to get your candidate nominated in 2012.

[Bradley in DC]

Barr does not speak passionately about libertarianism

Barr's demeanor, his calculated oratory skills, his dark-framed glasses ..... these are the calling cards of a skilled politician and his tools of persuasion, not a dedicated ideologue. When Ron Paul speaks he fumbles with words, he does not attempt any form of superficial persuasion and his demeanor is that of a genuine human being that you would chat to in your neighborhood.

Dr. Paul has a good bedside manner, but politics isn't pretty. Barr is a former prosecutor. There's the difference (not on ideology as much--see the articles in the middle link of my sig).

[IRO-bot]

Dr. Paul has a good bedside manner, but politics isn't pretty. Barr is a former prosecutor. There's the difference (not on ideology as much--see the articles in the middle link of my sig).

True but this perhaps helped make Dr. Paul popular.

[jabrownie]

I agree. This anti-Barr stuff has been a bit excessive. I think this forum has been very soft on Obama and McCain. Too soft.

Don't you remember everyone here beating them up during the primaries. I'm sure the old threads can be dug up, but it seems like most people on these forums already know that they both suck, so what's left to discuss about them?

[Bradley in DC]

True but this perhaps helped make Dr. Paul popular.

Yup, certainly with me. That said, there are pros and cons for each. I doubt I was the only one who had times where I wished Dr. Paul would have been a more aggressive advocate for our cause. Maybe nice guys do finish last. :(

[ClockwiseSpark]

but that's my unbiased viewpoint. ;)

lol! :D

[MelissaCato]

This will probably be my last post here.

I have been a member of the LP since 1998. I have run for office multiple times. I took a break from my party to caucus for Ron Paul. I saw so many ignorant posts here bashing the LP. People need to remember that the people who have been supporting Ron Paul's campaigns over the years were Libertarians. We took the LP bashing and still supported Ron Paul with the understanding that he would help to hold together the freedom movement.

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for President. This can only hurt this movement. Many people here see them selves as the freedom movement. The LP has been around since 1971 fighting for freedom. Where were all of you when Harry Browne was running for President or Badnarik. Where were you when the Vermont LP was trying to raise $10,000 to fully fund our state house candidates in 2006. Yes the LP will continue to be the party of freedom.

To all the people who keep bashing Barr and then post "VOTE BALDWIN" if you actually read the CP platform you would see how far they are from Ron Paul's policies. A government based on the CP platform would see Christian morals imposed by threat of violence on the masses.

If you wonder why there is such a consensus against Barr here it is because most of the bLibertarians got sick of all this and have left. I have better things to do then argue with you. I have campaigns to work on. We have a good chance of electing a Libertarian Attorney General in Vermont. I posted this here before but you guys could give a $hit, you would rather bash Barr for not showing up to an event.

Do you Remember when Ron Paul backed out on Glen Beck? Everyone was pissed at Beck because he would not let it go. You people are no better.

I will be voting for Bob Barr and will continue to fight for freedom with the LP.

Ben Todd
www.vtlp.org (http://vtlp.org)

I'm about tired of all the opposition concerning Ron Paul, period. You idiots need to remember that prolly 95% of Ron Paul supporters don't know crap about politics, people I personally know never even voted before.

Sooo with that said, YOU need to remember Ron Paul's very words saying he wants to reinstate the principled Constitutional Republican Platform. He's been saying this from the beginning. I say : To vote any other way is to abandon the Constitution ... we ARE a REPUBLIC !!

Think of all the unregistered voters that registered to vote for the 2008 election who support Ron Paul, then think of all the democrats, green party, and independents who changed to Republican voters just for Ron Paul in the nominating primaries.

Ron Paul is a cleaver man, no doubt about it. His plan is clear and working.

As far as I'm concerned there is only one Ron Paul ...

All these other peeps just want in on the voluntary action and cash. NOT !!

Ron Paul or BUST !!!! 1776 :D

[Mark]

We could have OWNED the local GOP if just a few more Libs had switched to Rep to help RP.

But no, all they cared about was their own power structure.

At our District delegate meeting we were about 17 to 23 behind... and there were tons of Libs who didn't bother to join us.

If the LP and all their members had gotten behind RP this time the local/inner GOP would look VERY different by now.

And now the LP wants us to back THEM? Right. Not.

I gave up on the LP months ago because I saw that they were no different than the others.

[hrdman2luv]

We all have to face the facts. Ron Paul isn't going to be president. And there will never be another Ron Paul. At least not for another 20 years or more. By then, the Republicans and Democrats will have succeeded in total corruption of our federal, state and local governments.
The Constitution will have been destroyed by the North American Union, Patriot Act, and other things they will come up with.

And all this will happen because we are all debating stupid things, calling each other names like a bunch of kids.

Stop arguing and calling names. So what if you don't trust Barr. So what if you don't want a religious guy as president. So what if you disagree with someone else's choice for who they're supporting. Does that give you the right to slander and bash them for their choice?

Any one of the third party candidates is better than Obama & McCain. Is that so hard to realize? Is it so hard to not mention your thoughts about someone else's choice?

It's funny how an "anti-barr or anti-balwin" person who thinks that barr/baldwin doesn't have a chance to win, will spend so much time debating the falacies of Bob Barr or Chuck Baldwin.

And even if Ron Paul was to endorse Baldwin or Barr, half of us would start supporting Obama or McCain just to spite Ron Paul for not agreeing with him.

CHILDISH !!!!!!!!!!!!! to say the least.

[Mark]

Barr has his own campaign to run that doesn't revolve around Ron Paul.

And the LP too. Which is WHY we didn't get any farther than we did this year.

There shouldn't even BE a LP this year.. every one of them should have been be a registered Rep this year. Forget the LP.

[MelissaCato]

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

Any questions ? :D

[Thomas_Paine]

This will probably be my last post here.

I have been a member of the LP since 1998. I have run for office multiple times. I took a break from my party to caucus for Ron Paul. I saw so many ignorant posts here bashing the LP. People need to remember that the people who have been supporting Ron Paul's campaigns over the years were Libertarians. We took the LP bashing and still supported Ron Paul with the understanding that he would help to hold together the freedom movement.

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for President. This can only hurt this movement. Many people here see them selves as the freedom movement. The LP has been around since 1971 fighting for freedom. Where were all of you when Harry Browne was running for President or Badnarik. Where were you when the Vermont LP was trying to raise $10,000 to fully fund our state house candidates in 2006. Yes the LP will continue to be the party of freedom.

To all the people who keep bashing Barr and then post "VOTE BALDWIN" if you actually read the CP platform you would see how far they are from Ron Paul's policies. A government based on the CP platform would see Christian morals imposed by threat of violence on the masses.

If you wonder why there is such a consensus against Barr here it is because most of the bLibertarians got sick of all this and have left. I have better things to do then argue with you. I have campaigns to work on. We have a good chance of electing a Libertarian Attorney General in Vermont. I posted this here before but you guys could give a $hit, you would rather bash Barr for not showing up to an event.

Do you Remember when Ron Paul backed out on Glen Beck? Everyone was pissed at Beck because he would not let it go. You people are no better.

I will be voting for Bob Barr and will continue to fight for freedom with the LP.

Ben Todd
www.vtlp.org (http://vtlp.org)

I have been registered Libertarian for years as well and I do not agree with your comments at all.

Bob Barr broke his word plain and simple, he is NOT to be trusted.

What Bob Barr did was a COLD calculated political move which will cost him dearly in November. Instead of coming out and standing for the 4 core principles Dr. Paul has laid out he made up a pathetic inconsistent excuse to not STAND where he CLAIMED his principles lay. I mean what was so horrible about Ron Paul's idea to bring the third party candidates together in agreement of 4 core Constitutional principles. What Ron Paul did was PURE LEADERSHIP

WHO'S THE REAL LIBERTARIAN? Bob or Ron? The LP nominated a candidate who doesn't even believe in ending TAX SLAVERY, that reflects poorly on the party of principle. I'll take Ron Paul and his libertarian ACTIONS before Bob's babble about how he's seen the light of liberty all of a sudden

In my opinion you are putting Party BEFORE Principle, uniting behind a candidate who has a short and tainted record in Congress and now pulls these shenanigans.

I agree with Adam Kokesh.

“What Ron Paul was doing today was taking leadership on some issues that I know you agree with and your lack of willingness to be a part of a team and work with others on these issues is telling. You have spoken a lot just now about leadership and unity, but it is clear you care about neither, except when you are the leader, and people are united behind you. Good leadership includes good followership and today, you showed your lack of both, and a complete lack of integrity. I am retracting my endorsement.”

and I agree with Libertarian Party co-founder David Nolan

"As of yesterday afternoon, Bob Barr’s Presidential campaign is effectively over. There were signs of serious trouble even before yesterday, but his “no-show” at Ron Paul’s Campaign for Liberty news conference — followed by an insulting suggestion that Ron should join Barr on the LP ticket in the VP slot — demonstrated just how out-of-touch the Barr campaign is, and how poor Barr’s vote total is likely to be."

[ClockwiseSpark]

I have been registered Libertarian for years as well and I do not agree with your comments at all.

Bob Barr broke his word plain and simple, he is NOT to be trusted.

What Bob Barr did was a COLD calculated political move which will cost him dearly in November. Instead of coming out and standing for the 4 core principles Dr. Paul has laid out he made up a pathetic inconsistent excuse to not STAND where he CLAIMED his principles lay. I mean what was so horrible about Ron Paul's idea to bring the third party candidates together in agreement of 4 core Constitutional principles. What Ron Paul did was PURE LEADERSHIP

WHO'S THE REAL LIBERTARIAN? Bob or Ron? The LP nominated a candidate who doesn't even believe in ending TAX SLAVERY, that reflects poorly on the party of principle. I'll take Ron Paul and his libertarian ACTIONS before Bob's babble about how he's seen the light of liberty all of a sudden

In my opinion you are putting Party BEFORE Principle, uniting behind a candidate who has a short and tainted record in Congress and now pulls these shenanigans.

I agree with Adam Kokesh.

“What Ron Paul was doing today was taking leadership on some issues that I know you agree with and your lack of willingness to be a part of a team and work with others on these issues is telling. You have spoken a lot just now about leadership and unity, but it is clear you care about neither, except when you are the leader, and people are united behind you. Good leadership includes good followership and today, you showed your lack of both, and a complete lack of integrity. I am retracting my endorsement.”

and I agree with Libertarian Party co-founder David Nolan

"As of yesterday afternoon, Bob Barr’s Presidential campaign is effectively over. There were signs of serious trouble even before yesterday, but his “no-show” at Ron Paul’s Campaign for Liberty news conference — followed by an insulting suggestion that Ron should join Barr on the LP ticket in the VP slot — demonstrated just how out-of-touch the Barr campaign is, and how poor Barr’s vote total is likely to be."

Excellent.

http://persistentillusion.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/defining-it-project-success.jpg

[libertarian4321]

Barr has enough to deal with, being third party and all, enough is enough. And it's a private organization that chose its leader, fair and square, you should try better to get your candidate nominated in 2012.

Yes, the Libertarians chose Bob Barr. They chose badly. That is the point of all of this.

Not only are his libertarian credentials about as solid as Sarah Palin's foreign policy credentials, he's been a bumbling campaigner.

Here's a little advice to Mr. Barr: If you are relying on libertarian minded people to vote for you, its probably not a good idea to pull a stunt like Barr did the other day that pisses off a huge percentage of the libertarians in the country.

I'm honestly beginning to think Barr is intentionally screwing up his campaign to get back at the Libertarian Party for targeting him a few years ago.

I can't imagine anyone being so utterly politically clueless.

[TER]

I lost any respect I had for Barr and he also lost my vote. I don't vote based off party politics just off principle and integrity. Barr showed he wasn't dependable and a flake. I hope the LP party backs someone who can stick to their word next time it was a lame move. To the rude people who offended you they insulted us all, not just you. You fail because they called us fringe from the beginning and your diecison to turn tail makes them right.

Good luck,

This.

[RonPaulFever]

Bob Barr had my vote until the press conference bullshit. Now I'm telling everyone what a scumbag he is and to cast their vote elsewhere. You almost had it, Bob, but you blew it. We forgave you for your past sins, and you fucked us. Fool me once....

[CasualApathy]

I will be Barr bashing untill the end of time.

[aravoth]

Bob Barr and the LP are shitheads.

[silverbullet85]

Everyone all worked up over a press conference, it's kind of silly. Yes, what Barr did was disrespectful and a horrible campaign strategy, if you can call it that. But Barr is a friend of liberty. The point of the press conference was to find common ground and stand up to the duopoly. People make mistakes, but when we keep bashing Barr over this we're completely missing the point of the press conference, even if Barr missed the point too.

[hotbrownsauce]

Hey I'm cool with working together, but Barr shouldn't dis Ron Paul as he has done on the Fox interview with Neil Cavuto on September 10th, it doesn't make any of us Paul backers happy. K? Thanks I've already e-mailed Mr. Barr and left comments on his website to make it known why we are mad and that he shouldn't step on our toes or call us "a cult of personality". That is very questionable that he did that.

No one hated Barr till he attacked our campaign we've worked SO HARD for

[anaconda]

It seems like this place and the Daily Paul have both been taken over by juvenile delinquents who are only becoming more and more of an embarassment to this movement. They have no substantive discussions to offer. All they can do is flame people with their immature responses. It's like holding a debate in a nursery. It's really a shame, too.

I see this as well.

[anaconda]

Do you Remember when Ron Paul backed out on Glen Beck? Everyone was pissed at Beck because he would not let it go. You people are no better.

I admire you're commitment.

But Beck has a neocon war agenda and a paycheck from CNN. He is not trustworthy to represent the Ron Paul Revolution.

But Barr should have been able to trust these 3rd Party candidates on as much as the "Four-Point" platform that they were standing up for. The beauty in their diversity agreeing on these things that NONE of McCain or Obama speak in support of was extraordinary and inspiring. Barr is the former neocon hack. Nader, McKinney, Paul, and Baldwin have been consistent. Barr's shunning these people is very telling, as far as I am concerned.

Barr dropped the ball and I will now vote for one of the three that showed up to slay the two-headed beast of the the two-party sham.

[erika]

Bob Barr is such a goober and sellout. What was he thinking?

You might as well get another pro wrestler to run.

[Joe3113]

Dr. Paul has a good bedside manner, but politics isn't pretty. Barr is a former prosecutor. There's the difference (not on ideology as much--see the articles in the middle link of my sig).

Barr has no passionate ideology, and to say he does ignores the observable facts of his demeanor and his content. He has no grasp of what it means to be libertarian from the heart. It is not in his bones. It is not in his blood. The thought of liberty would never bring a tear to his eye. His history as a prosecutor is only relevant in that he handles libertarianism just as he would handle a case in court in that he doesn't get personally and emotionally involved. He simply looks at his election as an arbitrary goal that will reflect on his own political ability. If you are not emotionally involved then you cannot be a libertarian because ultimately, libertarian theory starts from an axiom, a truth which is self-evident in our hearts and emotions but a truth that cannot be derived from simple logic. That axiom is the principle that it is wrong to commit an aggressive, non-consensual physical action toward another innocent human being. The non-aggression principle.

[Kludge]

Bob Barr and the LP are shitheads.

With that logic, the GOP and Dems are shitheads too for nominating such scum.

[LittleLightShining]

Ben, I hope we can get Karen Kerin elected for Attorney General. That being said, what party was she on the ballot as? Yes, she's a Libertarian but she was on the Republican ballot. She understands, much like Ron Paul, that whether we like it or not this is a 2 party system and the best hope of getting into office is to use one or the other of the vehicles. Kind of like hitchhiking in the Republican pickup truck and slapping a Libertarian bumper sticker on it before you get in.

We can get Libertarians elected in VT and elsewhere, we just may have to use the GOP to do it.

[Spirit of '76]

Where were all of you when Harry Browne was running for President or Badnarik.

I voted for Harry Browne. Then I voted for Buchanan on the Reform Party ticket. Then I voted for Peroutka on the Constitution Party ticket.

The LP hasn't earned my loyalty any more than the GOP has, and with Bob Barr as their nominee, it certainly seems unlikely that they will any time soon.

As another poster commented, where was the LP when we needed them to support Ron Paul during the primaries? We could have swept our state convention if the LP members in our state had temporarily switched party affiliation to vote for RP delegates. Only a handful did, and they have my respect, but the rest were too wrapped up in the LP culture of being perennial political losers to get behind a candidate who stood a good shot at winning our state-wide contest.

With their help, we could have delivered an entire state delegation for Ron Paul to the RNC, instead of just two votes. And now they want us to be good little party loyalists, hold our noses, and vote for the drug warrior Bob Barr and his neocon warmonger sidekick Wayne Allen (Kellogg, Brown and) Root?

I don't think so. Hell, they couldn't even get their shit together enough to get him on the ballot here anyway. Looks like it's another year of voting Constitution Party for me...

[zahirakids]

Ben, I hope we can get Karen Kerin elected for Attorney General. That being said, what party was she on the ballot as? Yes, she's a Libertarian but she was on the Republican ballot. She understands, much like Ron Paul, that whether we like it or not this is a 2 party system and the best hope of getting into office is to use one or the other of the vehicles. Kind of like hitchhiking in the Republican pickup truck and slapping a Libertarian bumper sticker on it before you get in.

We can get Libertarians elected in VT and elsewhere, we just may have to use the GOP to do it.

If you remember Karen has always run as a Libertarian and filed for the GOP primary as a second nomination. This year she will appear on the ballot as Libertarian / Republican. Running as a Libertarian and endorsed by the GOP. My wife will also be on the ballot for state house as Libertarian / Republican.

[zahirakids]

I voted for Harry Browne. Then I voted for Buchanan on the Reform Party ticket. Then I voted for Peroutka on the Constitution Party ticket.

The LP hasn't earned my loyalty any more than the GOP has, and with Bob Barr as their nominee, it certainly seems unlikely that they will any time soon.

As another poster commented, where was the LP when we needed them to support Ron Paul during the primaries? We could have swept our state convention if the LP members in our state had temporarily switched party affiliation to vote for RP delegates. Only a handful did, and they have my respect, but the rest were too wrapped up in the LP culture of being perennial political losers to get behind a candidate who stood a good shot at winning our state-wide contest.

With their help, we could have delivered an entire state delegation for Ron Paul to the RNC, instead of just two votes. And now they want us to be good little party loyalists, hold our noses, and vote for the drug warrior Bob Barr and his neocon warmonger sidekick Wayne Allen (Kellogg, Brown and) Root?

I don't think so. Hell, they couldn't even get their shit together enough to get him on the ballot here anyway. Looks like it's another year of voting Constitution Party for me...

Like I said we were supporting Paul. The LP almost went bankrupt because all the Libertarians were donating to Paul instead of the LP.

[kathy88]

Looking in from another country, I see Barr as a political opportunist who is not interested in ideology. He does not speak passionately about libertarianism and he doesn't even understand that the reason Ron Paul has so much support is because what he preaches comes from his heart. That has been the case whether he was an unknown congressmen, considered to be a kook, fringe lunatic, only popular in his district OR a figure now wildly popular worldwide.

Ron Paul has earnt the trust he receives over 30+ years. On the other hand, Barr has a long record of voting as a right-wing reactionary. People do not change so easily, especially when they are adults and have ingrained personalities.

Barr's demeanor, his calculated oratory skills, his dark-framed glasses ..... these are the calling cards of a skilled politician and his tools of persuasion, not a dedicated ideologue. When Ron Paul speaks he fumbles with words, he does not attempt any form of superficial persuasion and his demeanor is that of a genuine human being that you would chat to in your neighborhood.

A further point regarding your website (which you have a link to in your signature) .... I find it quite amusing that your Vermont Libertarian Party celebrates the theory of Milton Friedman, a wall-street puppet and fake libertarian, who supports fiat currency and abuses people who support commodity standards as lunatics, people like Ron Paul. Milton Friedman is basically a counter-gang designed to wreck true libertarianism in the classic divide-and-conquer method, and guide true libertarians back into the jaws of imperialist government.


This is a well thought out, excellent post. I agree completely with your point about personality being ingrained. That is what we are up against.

[The_Orlonater]

That's a good idea! Keep running on the Libertarian ticket and keep loosing!
Unfortunatley, Ron Paul didn't win any primaries and didn't get the attention Fakebama and FakeCain. Do you want to just give up?


Look how much it has accomplished since 1972! Do we have more or less liberty now then in 1972?

Great, what a fucking stupid respponse. And how much media attention have we hadsince 1972? How many people took us seriously? The reason RP got us together because the government's fraud is easier to see now. Our dollar is worth nearly nothing. This war has cost us too much money.

Shit like this leads up over time.


Look at how much closer you are to having a candidate actually win!

Actually we are. The libertarian candidate is getting a lot of media attention was polling 6% nationally and double digits in some states. Since when did the libs do that? Barr may notbe perfect, but he's gotten us attention.
YES, MEDIA ATTENTION IS A GOOD THING.


My aunt was right, she said that you all would never get anywhere. She was with the Libertarian party for over two decades and finally got smart and left them!

Good for her. I don't care if you guys are defeatists.


Maybe Dr. Paul is smarter than you give him credit for. Maybe he knows it will take all that we have from every other party to actually get something done!! Maybe he is smart enough to know what it will take to WIN..!

I agree here, but he can't be voted for now.


You people may be ok with failure but I for one am not! It may be ok to you that your candidate makes a "good show of it" but I for one am ready to win this fight!

PAUL IS NOT ON THE BALLOT. The ballots where he's on are useless, because he can't win.


Go smoke your dope or crack or whatever and talk about how unfair the world is. Go kill your baby because it is "your choice and nobody can tell you what to do with your body" and then complain about all the other bad people in the world and how all the neocons children are so mean and wrong.

Such a smart and well thought out section of your post. :rolleyes:
Go talk about how your party might actually raise $1 million dollars this time.., yay! That will bring this country back closer to the Great Republic it once was.....:rolleyes:

America isn't really a libertarian country.


Go gripe about how the government wont let you do whatever you want with your money and time and labor and then gripe because the neocons have used all of their money, time and labor taking control of everything...

Don't forget the neo-liberals.


If you are so stuck on one man or one "party" that you can not set aside your petty differences with other men or political parties to advance the cause of LIBERTY, then please just Go............

He's not set on one party, he campaigned for RP. Since RP is out, he campaigns for Barr.

Get it?

[The_Orlonater]

We all have to face the facts. Ron Paul isn't going to be president. And there will never be another Ron Paul. At least not for another 20 years or more. By then, the Republicans and Democrats will have succeeded in total corruption of our federal, state and local governments.
The Constitution will have been destroyed by the North American Union, Patriot Act, and other things they will come up with.

And all this will happen because we are all debating stupid things, calling each other names like a bunch of kids.

Stop arguing and calling names. So what if you don't trust Barr. So what if you don't want a religious guy as president. So what if you disagree with someone else's choice for who they're supporting. Does that give you the right to slander and bash them for their choice?

Any one of the third party candidates is better than Obama & McCain. Is that so hard to realize? Is it so hard to not mention your thoughts about someone else's choice?

It's funny how an "anti-barr or anti-balwin" person who thinks that barr/baldwin doesn't have a chance to win, will spend so much time debating the falacies of Bob Barr or Chuck Baldwin.

And even if Ron Paul was to endorse Baldwin or Barr, half of us would start supporting Obama or McCain just to spite Ron Paul for not agreeing with him.

CHILDISH !!!!!!!!!!!!! to say the least.


+1776

Fucking trolls on these forums.

[MelissaCato]

+1776

fucking trolls on these forums.

+ 1000 :d

[reduen]

Could some of you people possibly be missing the point any more if you tried..? :confused:

It is not all about Dr. Paul. Have any of you even been listening to the good Dr. all this time?

I can not tell you how many times I have heard Dr. Paul say that is not about him and it is not the Ron Paul Revolution!?!?

[tonesforjonesbones]

I do not believe this was Ron Pauls idea. I've come to the conclusion that whoever is advising Ron Paul and Bob Barr need to get lost. The issue was between the handlers of the 2 men..not the men themselves and it turned into a cluster, therefore, I have decided to step back from the LP and C4L.

I have now decided to go with Palin ...even though I hate that she's hooked into the neo con foreign policy, I have some hope she can sway them toward drilling here in the usa, limited spending...cutting taxes for Americans. Ya'll have chosen to hate Palin now, but you sure didn't hate her months ago...what happened? I love Ron Paul but he should have endorsed ONE candidate and kept the movement together. Palin is the ONLY candidate that has said good things about Ron Paul. Alaska is a very libertarian state. I consider this is the ONLY chance we have of getting one of those Libertarian / Republicans into office. I'm quite sure the democrats and the GOP are happy that Ron Paul split the movement into 4 directions. I agree with the poster who said this forum is over run with juvenilles. Now I can't question C4L without someone throwing a tin foil hat at me. Tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

There is no way to recapture the feelings we had during the primaries while campaigning for Ron Paul. That is time gone by. I charish those great feelings of hope and excitement. We can't get it back. There will never be another Ron Paul. Ever. I charish the memories. C4L is not Ron Paul. It's Treavor Lyman, the dude who runs the Daily Paul, Don, Jesse Benton, etc..and those folks. Not being negative, just being realistic. Tones

[newyearsrevolution08]

There is no way to recapture the feelings we had during the primaries while campaigning for Ron Paul. That is time gone by. I charish those great feelings of hope and excitement. We can't get it back. There will never be another Ron Paul. Ever. I charish the memories. C4L is not Ron Paul. It's Treavor Lyman, the dude who runs the Daily Paul, Don, Jesse Benton, etc..and those folks. Not being negative, just being realistic. Tones

+1

[silverhandorder]

Both sides are silly. Instead of trying to fight for what strategy to pursue combine them. These things are not exclusive. The more traction 3rd parties get, Ron Paul's way, the better off Libertarian party is. We also have to recognize that LP has done far more for Ron Paul then other parties and support his ideology more then any other party. In this case they should get the most support. At the same time we all must recognize there are liberty minded people who do not fully support Paul's ideology, and would not vote LP if it was up to them. Then these people should be offered other choices, that will further ALL of us along. If socialist party follows Paul's 4 points from the conference, they are a much better choice then the major 2.

Bitching at each other either way is worse then sucking it up and acting like grown ups.

[heavenlyboy34]

Methinks thou art a neocon trying to subvert us! Naughty!

Barr has shown himself to be no true friend of the libertarian movement. If he goes back to a Paulian philosophy for at least 20 years, I'll reconsider my stance.


That's a good idea! Keep running on the Libertarian ticket and keep loosing!

Look how much it has accomplished since 1972! Do we have more or less liberty now then in 1972?

Look at how much closer you are to having a candidate actually win!

My aunt was right, she said that you all would never get anywhere. She was with the Libertarian party for over two decades and finally got smart and left them!

Maybe Dr. Paul is smarter than you give him credit for. Maybe he knows it will take all that we have from every other party to actually get something done!! Maybe he is smart enough to know what it will take to WIN..!

You people may be ok with failure but I for one am not! It may be ok to you that your candidate makes a "good show of it" but I for one am ready to win this fight!

Go smoke your dope or crack or whatever and talk about how unfair the world is. Go kill your baby because it is "your choice and nobody can tell you what to do with your body" and then complain about all the other bad people in the world and how all the neocons children are so mean and wrong.

Go talk about how your party might actually raise $1 million dollars this time.., yay! That will bring this country back closer to the Great Republic it once was.....:rolleyes:

Go gripe about how the government wont let you do whatever you want with your money and time and labor and then gripe because the neocons have used all of their money, time and labor taking control of everything...

If you are so stuck on one man or one "party" that you can not set aside your petty differences with other men or political parties to advance the cause of LIBERTY, then please just Go............

[puppetmaster]

It is about the person, not the party. I supported Browne now I don't support Barr. I will support the ones I believe will support my values. So this year I am screwed

[MelissaCato]

Either way .. the CFR Media screwed us and Ron Paul from the beginning. They are the fault and that my friends will never be forgotten.

The Revolution continues ....................

[Yom]

i think my last post will probably be coming soon as well. It seems like this place and the daily paul have both been taken over by juvenile delinquents who are only becoming more and more of an embarassment to this movement. They have no substantive discussions to offer. All they can do is flame people with their immature responses. It's like holding a debate in a nursery. It's really a shame, too. There used to be true libertarian spirit of "live and let live" here. Sadly, this campaign for liberty is eroding into the "campaign to nowhere".

+1776.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

It is about the person, not the party. I supported Browne now I don't support Barr. I will support the ones I believe will support my values. So this year I am screwed

Do you support statism?

[Kludge]

Do you support statism?

Do you support the purchase of waffles from the International Waffle House?

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Do you support the purchase of waffles from the International Waffle House?

Yup. I like ihop

or is that a different establishment?

[ACUTS]

by the Neo Cons...

you have been duped, the guy is an ex CIA, anti civil liberties, war mongering, baby killing(pays for his exes abortion and leaves her), psuedo moralist(Bill Clinton Impeachment), opportunist who is known to have a giant ego and be very close to the hawks in the GOP.

Go ask his staffers on capitol hill or anyone other staffers. I have, they know the guy, he is a sad sad pathetic individual.


The guy is a joke and should be kicked off the LP ballot and out of the party forever.

[ARealConservative]

by the Neo Cons...

you have been duped, the guy is an ex CIA, anti civil liberties, war mongering, baby killing(pays for his exes abortion and leaves her), psuedo moralist(Bill Clinton Impeachment), opportunist who is known to have a giant ego and be very close to the hawks in the GOP.

Go ask his staffers on capitol hill or anyone other staffers. I have, they know the guy, he is a sad sad pathetic individual.


The guy is a joke and should be kicked off the LP ballot and out of the party forever.

so Ron Paul is a fool as well?

[RP4EVER]

The topic of this post is Ironic......its ok for some to bash the CP and Chuck Baldwin; theres no one leaving over this.

But start saying Barr is a neo con and was an idiot for missing Ron Pauls press conference and gee the LP comes out of the woodwork up in arms.

Mods; since every post about Baldwin and the CP has been moved I ask that this one be taken off the Grassroots Central forum; or move a post regarding the CP to this board to provide equal and fair discussion.

[RickyJ]

Barr's time is past. Get with the times dude.

[Knightskye]

Sticky this thread.

[DeadheadForPaul]

The CPers are the ones shitting all over Barr

I have problems with Barr too, but as a libertarian, he is the best option in this election. Don't change your vote to Baldwin unless you AGREE with what he says. If you're just bailing on Barr b/c he missed a press conference then you need to grow a pair

I just fail to see why you would vote for a Theocrat if you believe in libertarian ideals

[Danke]

I'm not "bailing on Barr b/c he missed a press conference" It is personal I guess.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I'm not "bailing on Barr b/c he missed a press conference" It is personal I guess.

Because you decided that people shouldn't be allowed to watch porn if they want to?

[RP4EVER]

The CPers are the ones shitting all over Barr

I have problems with Barr too, but as a libertarian, he is the best option in this election. Don't change your vote to Baldwin unless you AGREE with what he says. If you're just bailing on Barr b/c he missed a press conference then you need to grow a pair

I just fail to see why you would vote for a Theocrat if you believe in libertarian ideals

And the LPers been shitting on the CPers alot longer; if they cant take it they shouldnt dish it.

I fail to see why youre voting for a party not for ideals. Have you learned nothing? Youd rather support the LP regardless of who the candidate is than to realize you dont like him; but do what you will.

Im not asking your opinion on how I vote. GET OVER IT ALL OF YOU. DONT LIKE THE FACT THAT I HATE BOB BARR TOUGH DEAL WITH IT.

[parke]

I don't think people are abandoning the LP. Just Bob Barr. Doesn't change things on a more local level. It is about the particular candidate running, not the party. Many Republicans are not voting for McCain, but will work to get liberty minded Republicans elected.

+1

Screw Bob Barr. :eek:

[JosephTheLibertarian]

And the LPers been shitting on the CPers alot longer; if they cant take it they shouldnt dish it.

I fail to see why youre voting for a party not for ideals. Have you learned nothing? Youd rather support the LP regardless of who the candidate is than to realize you dont like him; but do what you will.

Im not asking your opinion on how I vote. GET OVER IT ALL OF YOU. DONT LIKE THE FACT THAT I HATE BOB BARR TOUGH DEAL WITH IT.

That sounds like what you're doing. If Baldwin is a libertarian then libertarianism is in a sad place. But it's a good thing that it's not so. Chuck Baldwin is anti-free trade. You must be agreeing with him, you support him. And by accepting the CP nomination he now accepts full burden for their nutty platform.

[Danke]

Because you decided that people shouldn't be allowed to watch porn if they want to?

What the hell are you talking about? I said no such thing.

[Josh_LA]

I don't think people are abandoning the LP. Just Bob Barr. Doesn't change things on a more local level. It is about the particular candidate running, not the party. Many Republicans are not voting for McCain, but will work to get liberty minded Republicans elected.

The LP is no better if they don't speak out against Barr's rudeness, but they won't or else they'd have never nominated him or allowed a prick to blog on myspace like that.

[hrdman2luv]

You have to understand something very VERY important.

ONLY VOTE FOR SOMEONE THAT'S ON THE BALLOT!!!!!!!!! WRITE INS ARE WORTHLESS. THEY WON'T BE COUNTED. IT IS A WASTED VOTE.

Even if you have to vote for Bob Barr because he is the only third party on the ballot. Do it anyways. Ron Paul doesn't want you to waste your vote on him. He doesn't want you to waste your vote on any candidate that's not on the ballot.
We all realize what's wrong with Barr and Baldwin. But, if you vote for one of them that's not on the ballot, that's only going to show what an idiot you are for taking the time to vote for someone who's vote won't even be counted.

Do you really think when the votes are counted, that when the person doing the counting finds a "Ron Paul write in, or a third party candidate write in", that they are going to take it into any account? NOOOO. It's going to thrown in the trash pile. At best, it might bring a laugh to them.

So please vote for which ever third party candidate is on the ballot...

[Kludge]

write-ins DO count.... So long as the person is registered. The third parties (and Nader) are all registered as write-in candidates where they failed to get ballot access, IIRC.

[airborne373]

Bob Barr is a black op agent working for Trotskyite neocons and other various scumbags.

[swirling_vortex]

You have to understand something very VERY important.

ONLY VOTE FOR SOMEONE THAT'S ON THE BALLOT!!!!!!!!! WRITE INS ARE WORTHLESS. THEY WON'T BE COUNTED. IT IS A WASTED VOTE.

Even if you have to vote for Bob Barr because he is the only third party on the ballot. Do it anyways. Ron Paul doesn't want you to waste your vote on him. He doesn't want you to waste your vote on any candidate that's not on the ballot.
We all realize what's wrong with Barr and Baldwin. But, if you vote for one of them that's not on the ballot, that's only going to show what an idiot you are for taking the time to vote for someone who's vote won't even be counted.

Do you really think when the votes are counted, that when the person doing the counting finds a "Ron Paul write in, or a third party candidate write in", that they are going to take it into any account? NOOOO. It's going to thrown in the trash pile. At best, it might bring a laugh to them.

So please vote for which ever third party candidate is on the ballot...
Ron Paul is not registered, so writing him in would be throwing your vote away. However, all third-party candidates are registered, so a write-in will still count. Just remember that if any of you do write in somebody, make sure your handwriting is legible and you spelled the candidate's name correctly. If they can't determine who you've written in, then the ballot will probably be tossed.

[Kludge]

Ron Paul is not registered, so writing him in would be throwing your vote away. However, all third-party candidates are registered, so a write-in will still count. Just remember that if any of you do write in somebody, make sure your handwriting is legible and you spelled the candidate's name correctly. If they can't determine who you've written in, then the ballot will probably be tossed.


Anyone know how write-ins work regarding names?


Is it Dr. Charles Baldwin and Roberty Barr? Does their V.P. candidate need to be written down??

[RevolutionSD]

This will probably be my last post here.

I have been a member of the LP since 1998. I have run for office multiple times. I took a break from my party to caucus for Ron Paul. I saw so many ignorant posts here bashing the LP. People need to remember that the people who have been supporting Ron Paul's campaigns over the years were Libertarians. We took the LP bashing and still supported Ron Paul with the understanding that he would help to hold together the freedom movement.

Paul chose to do the opposite. He refuses to endorse a candidate for President. This can only hurt this movement. Many people here see them selves as the freedom movement. The LP has been around since 1971 fighting for freedom. Where were all of you when Harry Browne was running for President or Badnarik. Where were you when the Vermont LP was trying to raise $10,000 to fully fund our state house candidates in 2006. Yes the LP will continue to be the party of freedom.

To all the people who keep bashing Barr and then post "VOTE BALDWIN" if you actually read the CP platform you would see how far they are from Ron Paul's policies. A government based on the CP platform would see Christian morals imposed by threat of violence on the masses.

If you wonder why there is such a consensus against Barr here it is because most of the bLibertarians got sick of all this and have left. I have better things to do then argue with you. I have campaigns to work on. We have a good chance of electing a Libertarian Attorney General in Vermont. I posted this here before but you guys could give a $hit, you would rather bash Barr for not showing up to an event.

Do you Remember when Ron Paul backed out on Glen Beck? Everyone was pissed at Beck because he would not let it go. You people are no better.

I will be voting for Bob Barr and will continue to fight for freedom with the LP.

Ben Todd
www.vtlp.org (http://vtlp.org)

It's a sad day when fellow Paulians jump ship to the Neocons. I would ask you to reconsider voting for Barr and instead join in the civil disobedience movement.

[Danke]

Bob "can't keep his word" Barr bump

[jcarcinogen]

Bob "can keep his word" Barr bump

I was a LP member before Paul and am one now definitively, the GOP is not me.

But in what manner did Barr keep his word?

You bumped it, prove it.

[max]

don't let the door hit u in the ass...

we'd all be better off with NO PARTIES at all...like washington warned us

[Danke]

I was a LP member before Paul and am one now definitively, the GOP is not me.

But in what manner did Barr keep his word?

You bumped it, prove it.

Sorry, typo, I meant to say "can't"

[jcarcinogen]

haha, funny edit.

[Danke]

I was a LP member before Paul and am one now definitively, the GOP is not me.

But in what manner did Barr keep his word?

You bumped it, prove it.

I did not want Barr after finding out RP's people would not want RP to be at the same event as him. But the LP guaranteed to abide by certain conditions, so I included him in my event with agree upon conditions with the blessing of C4L folks. Barr proved to be not a man of his word. And nearly caused me a disaster from a lot of my time and preparation, not to mention much last minute angst Sept. 1st.

A brief history of that day:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1673132&postcount=60

[DFF]

I don't have a problem with with the Libertarian in the least. Barr's (AKA "White" Eddie Murphy) is another story. He disrespected RP and deserves to be bashed. He sucks.

[FrankRep]

I will be voting for Bob Barr and will continue to fight for freedom with the LP.

Bob Barr shows true colors in his endorsement of Newt Gingrich
http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-west-palm-beach/bob-barr-shows-true-colors-his-endorsement-of-newt-gingrich

[Lafayette]

Bob Barr shows true colors in his endorsement of Newt Gingrich
http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-west-palm-beach/bob-barr-shows-true-colors-his-endorsement-of-newt-gingrich

Who is not even remotely surprised? Lafayette <---- this guy!


Bob Barr has his douche of a running mate... old whats his face...anyway. I distrusted Barr from the start, but when he snubbed Paul and his 3rd party pledge that sealed the deal.




The Republican/Democrat duopoly has, for far too long, ignored the most important issues facing our nation. However, alternate candidates Chuck Baldwin, Cynthia McKinney, and Ralph Nader agree with Ron Paul on four key principles central to the health of our nation. These principles should be key in the considerations of every voter this November and in every election.

We Agree

Foreign Policy: The Iraq War must end as quickly as possible with removal of all our soldiers from the region. We must initiate the return of our soldiers from around the world, including Korea, Japan, Europe and the entire Middle East. We must cease the war propaganda, threats of a blockade and plans for attacks on Iran, nor should we re-ignite the cold war with Russia over Georgia. We must be willing to talk to all countries and offer friendship and trade and travel to all who are willing. We must take off the table the threat of a nuclear first strike against all nations.

Privacy: We must protect the privacy and civil liberties of all persons under US jurisdiction. We must repeal or radically change the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and the FISA legislation. We must reject the notion and practice of torture, eliminations of habeas corpus, secret tribunals, and secret prisons. We must deny immunity for corporations that spy willingly on the people for the benefit of the government. We must reject the unitary presidency, the illegal use of signing statements and excessive use of executive orders.

The National Debt: We believe that there should be no increase in the national debt. The burden of debt placed on the next generation is unjust and already threatening our economy and the value of our dollar. We must pay our bills as we go along and not unfairly place this burden on a future generation.

The Federal Reserve: We seek a thorough investigation, evaluation and audit of the Federal Reserve System and its cozy relationships with the banking, corporate, and other financial institutions. The arbitrary power to create money and credit out of thin air behind closed doors for the benefit of commercial interests must be ended. There should be no taxpayer bailouts of corporations and no corporate subsidies. Corporations should be aggressively prosecuted for their crimes and frauds.

[heavenlyboy34]

don't let the door hit u in the ass...

we'd all be better off with NO PARTIES at all...like washington warned us
+a bunch. Bob Barr is a LINO. The LP needs a better nominee if they want me to care (assuming RP loses the primary, of course). I miss Harry Browne. :(

[Kluge]

I hope this pushes the LP to nominate a more reliable candidate this time around.

Ruwart, for example, outright refused to run with Barr in 2008. Instead, we got that Trump-wannabe Wayne Allen Root. Ruwart's campaigned for Paul and I guarantee you she absolutely would not run if Paul were nominated. She'd secure the nomination, then tell everyone she's dropping out to endorse Ron.