Why McCain/Palin SHOULD WIN!

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

I am not a McCain supporter, but if McCain were to win we wouldn't be better off as a country. We would be better off as a movement.:)

Imagine. A Republican President with a Democratic Congress and a whole base of angry Obama supporters and Independent/Third party supporters.

Imagine how we could unify the country against the executive and force congress to do it's job. McCain would be the most hated president in the history if he tried to go to war with Iran and Russia or decided to impose a military draft.

McCain would start his time in office with a low approval rating.

If Obama were to win we will be up against a group of supporters that have let him get away with:
*Voting to fund the war
*Voting for telecom immunity
*Not pledging to end the war
*Moving more troops into Afganistan
*Proposed sanctions on Iran
*Etc.

These are all things that go against what his liberal base of supporters want, but never the less they believe he is just playing politics to win.

Obama seems to have the popular vote and if he were to win, his supporters will have excuses for everything he does. These are not a group of estatic Neocons, but they are a grassroots movement with lots of special interest pull.

If Obama wins we will have another Bill Clinton on our hands (the man who did nothing wrong and was crucified by evil Republicans, so they say.). If Obama continues Bush policies such as torture and endless war, can we really trust that liberals and progressive Democrats will call him out on it.

If McCain were to win, we would at least have a whole base of Obama supporters on our side rather than a group of President Obama sympathizers with lots of excuses for why he cannot end and prevent wars.

Althought McCain has said many frightening things over the past few weeks of his campaign, just imagine what Obama and a Democratic Congress will pull and get away with.

Please let me know if this is an accurate assessment.:cool:

[torchbearer]

If McCain wins, the neocon leadership is strengthened, and our chance to effect change in the GOP diminished.
Plus, we couldn't run a liberty candidate for president in the GOP in 2012.
If McCain loses, the neocon leadership loses strength, and our chance to effect change in the GOP is increased.
Plus, we could run a liberty candidate for president in the GOP in 2012.

[mtmedlin]

I like the idea of McCain winning just because no one political party would control everything and the amount of damage that they could do would be limited.

[acptulsa]

Is it better if your house burns up or if your house burns down?

Either is pretty bad, I think...

[SnappleLlama]

Let's just face it...we're all screwed.

[nate895]

A McCain presidency would ultimately kill the Republican Party if there was a conservative third party that could come out strong in the 2010 midterms. McCain isn't supported by conservatives, and so we could take advantage of that if we were to form a party to challenge the Republicans for the conservative base.

McCain, I believe, will win this election given the momentum he currently he has. Palin is getting more coverage than Obama, and the Obama campaign is on the defensive when they are behind outside the margin of error.

The Conservative Party (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=154071) would be able to take advantage of the dissatisfaction among conservatives, who are the only people who are likely to vote for us right now.

[Dorfsmith]

The only positive I can see to McCain winning is the Republicans won't have anybody to blame but themselves for the economic collapse. If Obama is elected and the economy crashes guess who all the Republicans are going to unite against...

And in 2012 neocons will win in a landslide. :o

[Micah Dardar]

I am not a McCain supporter, but if McCain were to win we wouldn't be better off as a country. We would be better off as a movement.:)

Imagine. A Republican President with a Democratic Congress and a whole base of angry Obama supporters and Independent/Third party supporters.

Imagine how we could unify the country against the executive and force congress to do it's job. McCain would be the most hated president in the history if he tried to go to war with Iran and Russia or decided to impose a military draft.

McCain would start his time in office with a low approval rating.

If Obama were to win we will be up against a group of supporters that have let him get away with:
*Voting to fund the war
*Voting for telecom immunity
*Not pledging to end the war
*Moving more troops into Afganistan
*Proposed sanctions on Iran
*Etc.

These are all things that go against what his liberal base of supporters want, but never the less they believe he is just playing politics to win.

Obama seems to have the popular vote and if he were to win, his supporters will have excuses for everything he does. These are not a group of estatic Neocons, but they are a grassroots movement with lots of special interest pull.

If McCain were to win, we would at least have a whole base of Obama supporters on our side rather than a group of President Obama sympathizers with lots of excuses for why he cannot end and prevent wars.

Althought McCain has said many frightening things over the past few weeks of his campaign, just imagine what Obama and a Democratic Congress will pull and get away with.

Please let me know if this is an accurate assessment.:cool:

Maybe it's time we stop discussing the lesser of two evils. Evil is evil. I'm sick of hearing about Obama and McCain, but I don't think that Obama would lead us into war with Russia as easily as McCain would. That is the biggest issue that I worry about. I don't want another Cold War!

[nate895]

If McCain wins, the neocon leadership is strengthened, and our chance to effect change in the GOP diminished.
Plus, we couldn't run a liberty candidate for president in the GOP in 2012.
If McCain loses, the neocon leadership loses strength, and our chance to effect change in the GOP is increased.
Plus, we could run a liberty candidate for president in the GOP in 2012.

We could still run a candidate for the nomination in 2012. You can challenge a sitting President from within the party.

[Bman]

I like the idea of McCain winning just because no one political party would control everything and the amount of damage that they could do would be limited.

Well that argument will hold no water after the beginning of WWIII.

[mtmedlin]

Well that argument will hold no water after the beginning of WWIII.

Neither side will allow the other the power to do it. The president can declare war but it takes congress to fund it. A McCain Presidency is 4 years of pissed of gridlock.

[torchbearer]

We could still run a candidate for the nomination in 2012. You can challenge a sitting President from within the party.

not really. technically yes. media coverage wise.. no.
There will be no GOP primary debates in 2012 if McCain wins 2008.

[nate895]

not really. technically yes. media coverage wise.. no.
There will be no GOP primary debates in 2012 if McCain wins 2008.

There would be if we could raise a candidate before 2011 and give him money. Legitimately, however, we should probably form a coalition third party for beyond this election when McCain wins.

[Micah Dardar]

There would be if we could raise a candidate before 2011 and give him money. Legitimately, however, we should probably form a coalition third party for beyond this election when McCain wins.

Barf. If McCain wins we will probably have Russian nukes up our ass. 2011 doesn't matter if the apocalypse has already begun by then.

[CurtisLow]

I am not a McCain supporter, but if McCain were to win we wouldn't be better off as a country

http://cowlander.neobahumut.com/LOL%20PICTURES/LMAO.jpg

[torchbearer]

we should probably form a coalition third party for beyond this election when McCain wins.

McCain winning will be very bad for our movement.
I am toying with the idea of actually spending the time to tell you why, especially in the case of the LAGOP, but i'm certain it would not deter this idea that McCain winning is prefered.

We are having our first coalition of party's meeting on Sept 20th in Louisiana.
But this is just a first step in the realigning of politics in this country.

Changing the debate from left and right.. to supports consitutional government, and those that don't support constitutional government.

Once we are able to frame the debates from that stand point, we have a major victory.

McCain winning only validates the opposite.

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

My main point was that if Obama wins we will not have a liberal media that is on our side. They will be playing political games so that Obama will get a full 8 years.

If McCain is in office, we will have a much larger number of people against the president, therefore more power to stop his lunacy.

Lets face it. The Neocons have been outed and the real conservatives are supporting the ROn Paul Revolution. As for the Neo Liberals, they are not seen as threatening by the left wing and honest democrats.

I would rather side with the left wing rather than lunatic NeoCons that cannot see through Bush and McCain.
:cool:

[nate895]

McCain winning will be very bad for our movement.
I am toying with the idea of actually spending the time to tell you why, especially in the case of the LAGOP, but i'm certain it would not deter this idea that McCain winning is prefered.

We are having our first coalition of party's meeting on Sept 20th in Louisiana.
But this is just a first step in the realigning of politics in this country.

Changing the debate from left and right.. to supports consitutional government, and those that don't support constitutional government.

Once we are able to frame the debates from that stand point, we have a major victory.

McCain winning only validates the opposite.

I am sorry, I am just looking at our options because it appears to me that McCain will win. I don't see how Obama can make up the 5-point disparity in the current polling without a weak debate performance by McCain.

[torchbearer]

My main point was that if Obama wins we will not have a liberal media that is on our side. They will be playing political games so that Obama will get a full 8 years.

If McCain is in office, we will have a much larger number of people against the president, therefore more power to stop his lunacy.

Lets face it. The Neocons have been outed and the real conservatives are supporting the ROn Paul Revolution. As for the Neo Liberals, they are not seen as threatening by the left wing and honest democrats.

I would rather side with the left wing rather than lunatic NeoCons that cannot see through Bush and McCain.
:cool:

If McCain wins, the GOP leadership knows they can win without us. So we will be shut out and ignored. They wouldn't need us.
If McCain loses, the GOP leadership will know they can't win without us... So we will find more open doors.

[acptulsa]

Neither side will allow the other the power to do it. The president can declare war but it takes congress to fund it. A McCain Presidency is 4 years of pissed of gridlock.

Dubya didn't have these problems.

[Bman]

Neither side will allow the other the power to do it. The president can declare war but it takes congress to fund it. A McCain Presidency is 4 years of pissed of gridlock.

Well as long as someone disconnects the wire to the Red button I may believe you. That mans half cocked enough to push that button on day one.

[nate895]

My main point was that if Obama wins we will not have a liberal media that is on our side. They will be playing political games so that Obama will get a full 8 years.

If McCain is in office, we will have a much larger number of people against the president, therefore more power to stop his lunacy.

Lets face it. The Neocons have been outed and the real conservatives are supporting the ROn Paul Revolution. As for the Neo Liberals, they are not seen as threatening by the left wing and honest democrats.

I would rather side with the left wing rather than lunatic NeoCons that cannot see through Bush and McCain.
:cool:

Conservatives see right through Bush and McCain, most of them at least, it's just that they are voting for the "lesser of two evils." Heck, they still wouldn't be backing McCain if he wouldn't have picked Palin.

[Razorback Fan]

My son is 16. If McCain is elected, and, in two years, we are in yet another m0th3rfuck1ng war, at the first talk of a draft...and you know it has to happen...I will be leaving the country with my family. Then you guys can run whoever you want in 2012. But I'd really, really prefer to defeat the neocons now, so I can stay in America.

[acptulsa]

My main point was that if Obama wins we will not have a liberal media that is on our side. They will be playing political games so that Obama will get a full 8 years.

If this were their primary motivation, they'd have given Ron Paul all the strokes in the world this round, at least at some point, so as to fracture the G.O.P. to the point where Obama would now be running away with it.

Their primary motivation is to keep the status quo safe from challenges. And the left/right paradigm you describe (and seem to prescribe to) is merely the tool they use to do it.

[angelatc]

McCain will happily allow the Democrats to play God with their social programs as long as the Democrats allow McCain to play God with our soldiers.

We're screwed '08.

[heavenlyboy34]

I am sorry, I am just looking at our options because it appears to me that McCain will win. I don't see how Obama can make up the 5-point disparity in the current polling without a weak debate performance by McCain.

Polls are stupid. I never read them, and neither should you. Pollsters declared that RP was insignificant, but we see from the Rally and other grassroots efforts, RP is VERY significant. :D

[nate895]

Polls are stupid. I never read them, and neither should you. Pollsters declared that RP was insignificant, but we see from the Rally and other grassroots efforts, RP is VERY significant. :D

The polls were accurate as far as how many votes he got. They can't pick up changes in opinion, and momentum he built for the movement, but they were correct on how many votes he got.

[Bman]

The polls were accurate as far as how many votes he got. They can't pick up changes in opinion, and momentum he built for the movement, but they were correct on how many votes he got.

Sure they were. The same people publishing the polls are the same people deciding who to call, and the same people jerry rigging the diebold machines.:p

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

We as a movement are lumped in with the Left Wing of this country by the Neocons because we see Bush as a traitor. If Obama wins we will only have ourselves and a small group of disenfranchised liberals who support us in ending the war and ousting McCain.

If McCain wins, we will have a whole group of Obama Supporters and a mainstream liberal media agianst the president.
McCain in office will be another 4-8 years of George Bush, therefore igniting a much larger movement against our foreign policy. Obama has the power to soften irate liberals where as McCain would ignite their militancy to end the war.

[mtmedlin]

Dubya didn't have these problems.

Thats my point, the 107th congress in 2001 had both houses controlled by republicans! Then about mid year the Dems took over the Senate but hte House was still Republican. It was jeffords that switched parties and gave the dems a 1 vote lead and turned the Senates into Dem control.

This wouldnt be the case now. The Dems hold a strong lead in both houses. If we get a Dem pres, they will run a train on the US constitution and Federal budget.

[nate895]

We as a movement are lumped in with the Left Wing of this country by the Neocons because we see Bush as a traitor. If Obama wins we will only have ourselves and a small group of disenfranchised liberals who support us in ending the war and ousting McCain.

If McCain wins, we will have a whole group of Obama Supporters and a mainstream liberal media agianst the president.
McCain in office will be another 4-8 years of George Bush, therefore igniting a much larger movement against our foreign policy. Obama has the power to soften irate liberals where as McCain would ignite their militancy to end the war.

Your conclusion is reasonable, your logic in getting there isn't. Conservatives are sympathetic to Ron Paul. Almost all of them say "I like him, but foreign policy..." if we were to be the only conservative alternative to McCain and the GOP in 2010 and 2012, we will get their votes.

[Soccrmastr]

Clinton did MUCH wrong.... I believe RP even was one of the GOP members who was suing him lol

[Bman]

If we get a Dem pres, they will run a train on the US constitution and Federal budget.

And this is any differemt than what what the current republicans have been doing how?

McCain's veto power will mean nothing. Just more unbalanced budgets and extreme federal spending.

[Razorback Fan]

The Dems hold a strong lead in both houses. If we get a Dem pres, they will run a train on the US constitution and Federal budget.

I can live in a country with a large national debt and an assailed Constitution. We'll weather that. I can not live in a country in which our children are sent to die for nothing.

[nate895]

I can live in a country with a large national debt and an assailed Constitution. We'll weather that. I can not live in a country in which our children are sent to die for nothing.

You get that one either way.

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

Far too many people on this forum are assuming that Barack will not ignite a war with Russia or Iran. Just because he says he will negotiate with these countries does not mean that those negotiations will fare well.

With McCain, we already know what we are in for and what to prepare for. Barack will try to play political games just to keep the public on his side long enough to win another term in 2012 with a larger margin.

We are destroying the Mainstream NeoCon Republicans with our movement. Another 4-8 years of a Republican president will fracture the Neocon illusion even more and bring more of the disenfranchised to our side.

If McCain does not deal with the border and the economy more people will wake up. If Barack is in office, the Neocons will spin their messes with Bush onto Obama rather than themselves taking the blame from mainstream Republicans.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I would rather see Obama win for strategic reasons. If McCain gets elected, a large number of people will still continue to just blame Republicans for everything bad. They'll still be desperate to elect a Democrat thinking it'll make all their problems disappear.

[newyearsrevolution08]

Why they should win?

fuck mccain and palin

that goes for obama and biden as well

..................

that is what I love and hate about this country, everyone has the right to vote for whatever piece of shit they want to and we have to stomach others decisions on WHY they vote for the WORST politicians in American history. I say worst because even Bush himself is doing things because in his own crazy mind it sounds right BUT mccain actually agrees with bush's plans and agendas. That in itself is insane and palin is the cute showboat who will go along with anything she is told to say and do. I think she is making it worse for women in office myself because she fits perfectly with what a "pretty face" in an election would do. She is a yes girl and nothing more.

[torchbearer]

I would rather see Obama win for strategic reasons. If McCain gets elected, a large number of people will still continue to just blame Republicans for everything bad. They'll still be desperate to elect a Democrat thinking it'll make all their problems disappear.

Logical arguments have the smallest impact on this forum.
Sorta like citing the constitution on the house floor.

[speciallyblend]

mccain wins, then this revolution is over in the gop, get real

[Razorback Fan]

You get that one either way.

I'm referring to a draft. McCain is much more likely to push for a draft if we end up in another war, IMO. I hate the idea of our volunteer soldiers being sent to die for no reason, of course. It's immoral and disgusting. But drafting even more kids for the same purpose is that much worse. I can be a proud American while fighting for the rights of our soldiers not to be put in harm's way needlessly. But when it's my kid, things change. When my children are forced to fight in an unconstitutional war, that's when I'm no longer an American.

[Razorback Fan]

Why they should win?

fuck mccain and palin

that goes for obama and biden as well

Right you are.

[newyearsrevolution08]

I would rather see Obama win for strategic reasons. If McCain gets elected, a large number of people will still continue to just blame Republicans for everything bad. They'll still be desperate to elect a Democrat thinking it'll make all their problems disappear.

People will blame THIS form of republicans and not true republicans. We need to show people the difference but either way it doesn't matter who wins the elections whether that be dem or repub because their policies are pretty much one in the same. If Americans cannot look passed a party name then they deserve what they get and ODDS ARE if they truly are that stupid then we can get them to vote however we need them to on the next election cycle. We just need to have "change", save the children, cut government spending and honor and win the war in our slim jims and we will win hands down..

Sheep/.

[nate895]

I'm referring to a draft. McCain is much more likely to push for a draft if we end up in another war, IMO. I hate the idea of our volunteer soldiers being sent to die for no reason, of course. It's immoral and disgusting. But drafting even more kids for the same purpose is that much worse. I can be a proud American while fighting for the rights of our soldiers not to be put in harm's way needlessly. But when it's my kid, things change. When my children are forced to fight in an unconstitutional war, that's when I'm no longer an American.

Charlie Rangel, a Democrat, is the one who proposed the draft initially.

[nate895]

mccain wins, then this revolution is over in the gop, get real

I believe it already is over in the GOP.

[ProBlue33]

If he wins 51% of Americans will be happy, the other 49% will be even angrier.

Tell me do you think the country would be more or less divided if McCain wins?

If Obama wins, at least the GOP had the last 8 years and many Bush supporters know he was bad president anyway, they will lick there wounds from this election cycle, and say will get it back in 2012.

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

Many McCain supporters (primarily from the christian right of the party) want Roe v Wade overturned. Barack will stall this process by appointing liberal Supreme Court judges to the bench.

If McCain at least appoints conservative judges and Roe v Wade is overturned, then we will not have to deal with this issue getting in our way (They will not vote for Paul or anybody else we run because we are so low in the polls, meaning a democrat could win and appoint liberal judges to the bench).

The war can be proven to be a fraud. Human life at the expense of a Woman's personal choice will never be accepted by the Religious Right. If McCain appoints liberal judges the whole Republican Neocon Movement will be finished.

[Razorback Fan]

Charlie Rangel, a Democrat, is the one who proposed the draft initially.

Whatever, it doesn't matter to me who proposes it. I think McCain is more of a warmonger than Obama. But my reaction will be the same, no matter who's doing the mongering.

[newyearsrevolution08]

the revolution is over in the gop?

come on people and get over it lol...

One election where there is activity and everyone was thinking we could change the world within an 18 month period. It didn't work so we must have failed?

The revolution is just getting started and the gop will have a fresh face on it soon enough, one that looks like the constitution.

Stop whining about ONE ELECTION and lets focus on the bigger picture.

[Bman]

With McCain, we already know what we are in for and what to prepare for. .\

Sorry I'm not ready to place order for my tombstone. Look if McCain wins. We might as well all leave the republican party and join something else because we have ZERO chance of realigning the Republican party at least until 2016.

[MelissaCato]

Ron Paul should WIN !!!! darn it.

[torchbearer]

Sorry I'm not ready to place order for my tombstone. Look if McCain wins. We might as well all leave the republican party and join something else because we have ZERO chance of realigning the Republican party at least until 2016.

thread winner.

[nate895]

the revolution is over in the gop?

come on people and get over it lol...

One election where there is activity and everyone was thinking we could change the world within an 18 month period. It didn't work so we must have failed?

The revolution is just getting started and the gop will have a fresh face on it soon enough, one that looks like the constitution.

Stop whining about ONE ELECTION and lets focus on the bigger picture.

It's not that it is just one election, it is the fact that the party is already making rules to prevent our participation in the party. If we don't take over the party with 18 months, by the time of the next state conventions, we will have no recourse, we will be forbidden from working in the party.

[torchbearer]

Ron Paul should WIN !!!! darn it.

We are still working on that one... :)

[nate895]

Sorry I'm not ready to place order for my tombstone. Look if McCain wins. We might as well all leave the republican party and join something else because we have ZERO chance of realigning the Republican party at least until 2016.

What if McCain wins anyway? That is my concern. I believe he will win, despite our opposition.

[newyearsrevolution08]

It's not that it is just one election, it is the fact that the party is already making rules to prevent our participation in the party. If we don't take over the party with 18 months, by the time of the next state conventions, we will have no recourse, we will be forbidden from working in the party.

really. I didn't realize this was an all or nothing election...

so they have our names down already on the "do not enter" list then?

bummer, well I guess that is it for us and politics, nothing more to see here people. We lost and might as well just give up. They won and said we can't join or do anything and we should respect their wishes.

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

The Republican Party is tired of our bickering. They are part of the Establishment in this country.
We need this to be an independent movement. Maybe we even need to form our own political party based on the principles layed out by ROn Paul.

[torchbearer]

The Republican Party is tired of our bickering. They are part of the Establishment in this country.
We need this to be an independent movement. Maybe we even need to form our own political party based on the principles layed out by ROn Paul.

worked out great for the libertarians, let's repeat what they did...

[Bman]

Many McCain supporters (primarily from the christian right of the party) want Roe v Wade overturned. Barack will stall this process by appointing liberal Supreme Court judges to the bench.

If McCain at least appoints conservative judges and Roe v Wade is overturned, then we will not have to deal with this issue getting in our way (They will not vote for Paul or anybody else we run because we are so low in the polls, meaning a democrat could win and appoint liberal judges to the bench).


Why make it an issue in the first place. I'm going to talk about something called commonsense. So Roe vs Wade gets overturned. Eventually something happens. Something were a girl is not allowed to have an abortion and the situation turns ugly. Then it goes back to the Supreme court. And once again it is tried. And we run into this perpetual machine which goes on forever and ever, where one side is losing and the other side is winning but the topic NEVER dies. Let it go. Try to make sure people are better educated so they don't get unwanted pregnancys, but F*CK Sarah Palin and all you others out there who will not protect the rights of a raped women. You make me sick!

[nate895]

really. I didn't realize this was an all or nothing election...

so they have our names down already on the "do not enter" list then?

bummer, well I guess that is it for us and politics, nothing more to see here people. We lost and might as well just give up. They won and said we can't join or do anything and we should respect their wishes.

No, I was saying we need to form a third party. The GOP's new rulebook specifically forbids committee membership of those who oppose the nominee for Prez or VP, or the current Prez or VP if they are Republican.

[Bman]

What if McCain wins anyway? That is my concern. I believe he will win, despite our opposition.

Look I certainly cannot vote for Obama. But I'm more concerned about not making it look like a good idea to vote for McCain.

Look McCains going to get killed in the debates. He may have an edge know but Obama like it or not is the best speaker in politics of our age. When people here him speak vs John McCain directly this election cycle will be over.

[MelissaCato]

We are still working on that one... :)

Good. We need to get this country back peacefully NOW ... or die trying.

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

I was merely trying to point out that Roe v Wade is a major barrier in our way. I have grandparents who are die hard christians and will not vote for Paul or any other Conservative candidate if they do not have a chance of winning the election.

Our movement is not big enough to Poll higher than the Republican and Democratic Nominees.

If Barack wins and appoints liberal judges to the bench, the Christian Right will again align with a Republican Nominee because they will have the best chance of winning the Election.

Your right in saying that they do not hate Paul. They just want somebody with a chance of winning, otherwise they feel they are deeper in the hole on this issue.

[Bman]

I was merely trying to point out that Roe v Wade is a major barrier in our way. I have grandparents who are die hard christians and will not vote for Paul or any other Conservative candidate if they do not have a chance of winning the election.

Our movement is not big enough to Poll higher than the Republican and Democratic Nominees.

If Barack wins and appoints liberal judges to the bench, the Christian Right will again align with a Republican Nominee because they will have the best chance of winning the Election.

Your right in saying that they do not hate Paul. They just want somebody with a chance of winning, otherwise they feel they are deeper in the hole on this issue.

But they have to realize the hole will always be there. There is no winning.

[nate895]

Look I certainly cannot vote for Obama. But I'm more concerned about not making it look like a good idea to vote for McCain.

Look McCains going to get killed in the debates. He may have an edge know but Obama like it or not is the best speaker in politics of our age. When people here him speak vs John McCain directly this election cycle will be over.

Good speakers aren't necessarily good debaters, some of the worst speakers are brilliant debaters. McCain is good at town hall, off the cuff types of events. Obama is good at reading from a teleprompter and inspiring the masses.

[torchbearer]

Good. We need to get this country back peacefully NOW ... or die trying.

There are plenty of people working against us on this very forum.
I'm bringing all the parties together in Louisiana... guess who gets attacked?
McCain and his pukes? No.
The CFL, Ron Paul, and anyone making a difference in their state.
Time to start adding things up here.

Instead of these people taking the blame for not doing the right things to win an election, they look for scapegoats. Kinda like the neocons do...

[speciallyblend]

Good speakers aren't necessarily good debaters, some of the worst speakers are brilliant debaters. McCain is good at town hall, off the cuff types of events. Obama is good at reading from a teleprompter and inspiring the masses.

dude it is the other way around ,watch mccain the man cannot say thank you with out looking a cue card ,not sure what your talking about go back and watch mccain at town halls vs obama speaking off the cuff.......

[Bman]

Good speakers aren't necessarily good debaters, some of the worst speakers are brilliant debaters. McCain is good at town hall, off the cuff types of events. Obama is good at reading from a teleprompter and inspiring the masses.

Well obviously all Obama has to do is ask if McCain would like to see more sunlight from the Presidents working group on financial markets.

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

A McCain presidency will force the Democratic Congress to stop playing political games and take action if they want to win in 2012. If they continue to play political games while McCain stokes the fires of WW3 the liberal movement will fracture.

Those disenfranchised liberals will either join our movement just to end the nonsense in Washington, or they will form their own fringe movement to destroy the Establishment.

Wouldn't this be more of what we are looking for?

[torchbearer]

Wouldn't this be more of what we are looking for?

No- It would kill everything we are doing. Especially in Louisiana.
Are you voting for McCain?

[nate895]

dude it is the other way around ,watch mccain the man cannot say thank you with out looking a cue card ,not sure what your talking about go back and watch mccain at town halls vs obama speaking off the cuff.......

Do you watch how boring Obama is in town halls? That's why he NEVER holds them, it's always a speaking rally with a small opportunity for questions.

McCain almost never holds rallies, but instead does Q-and A's with people, and when he is holding rallies, he lets Palin do most of the talking.

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

I am not voting for McCain, but do not want to see an Obama presidency.

McCain will force political change by simpily being in office as president of the United States and doing what he plans on doing. This will be a wake up call to all that oppose our foriegn and domestic policys. If we do not unite against this evil we will all be swallowed up in it.

[dannno]

I like the idea of McCain winning just because no one political party would control everything and the amount of damage that they could do would be limited.

That's a farce, it really just gives them more excuses to "compromise" on whatever the NWO wants.

[torchbearer]

I am not voting for McCain, but do not want to see an Obama presidency.

McCain will force political change by simpily being in office as president of the United States and doing what he plans on doing. This will be a wake up call to all that oppose our foriegn and domestic policys. If we do not unite against this evil we will all be swallowed up in it.

What are you doing right now to unite people in your state?

[nate895]

I am not voting for McCain, but do not want to see an Obama presidency.

McCain will force political change by simpily being in office as president of the United States and doing what he plans on doing. This will be a wake up call to all that oppose our foriegn and domestic policys. If we do not unite against this evil we will all be swallowed up in it.

McCain is bad for our movement, just as bad as Obama, but both present unique challenges and opportunities which we must need to prepare to overcome.

[Bman]

I am not voting for McCain, but do not want to see an Obama presidency.


It's a catch 22. Vote 3rd party and learn a second language so you have somewhere to seek refuge if these guys let it all fall to sh1t.

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

Obama is seen by the Left as a unifier of thier movement. They also see an Obama presidency as a New Progressive Era in the making. They will not allow his dangerous foreign policy to get in the way of his domestic appeasement.

They will become, as they already are, a new movement in the form of NeoLiberalism. This type of movement will destroy our chances of waking up more people to the fact that the most important issues are the ones outlines in Ron Pauls 4 Points.

[Paulatized]

I agree with Torchbearer's logic, If McCain gets in it will set the Revolution back .....

[ProBlue33]

Obama is seen by the Left as a unifier of thier movement. They also see an Obama presidency as a New Progressive Era in the making. They will not allow his dangerous foreign policy to get in the way of his domestic appeasement.

They will become, as they already are, a new movement in the form of NeoLiberalism. This type of movement will destroy our chances of waking up more people to the fact that the most important issues are the ones outlines in Ron Pauls 4 Points.

WOW very true, this truely is a choice that must be thought through, and it is not an easy choice.

However I will say this after hearing what Putin said in that cancelled CNN interview, and what Palin said about Russia the other day. A McCain / Palin ticket has serious dangers to it in regards to Russia. I know Obama would get along better with Putin than McCain would, and McCain has that wicked temper that can go off, just too risky. I mean WWIII risky. Oh and God would be on our side too according too Palin.

[Micah Dardar]

A McCain presidency will force the Democratic Congress to stop playing political games and take action if they want to win in 2012. If they continue to play political games while McCain stokes the fires of WW3 the liberal movement will fracture.

Those disenfranchised liberals will either join our movement just to end the nonsense in Washington, or they will form their own fringe movement to destroy the Establishment.

Wouldn't this be more of what we are looking for?

The last thing that we need is someone that "stokes the fires of WW3". That isn't a game to play with, and it is absolutely unnecessary. It's so unnecessary that it is completely ridiculous. Sometime I think that Bush thinks that he's playing video game or something, and I don't think that McCain would be much better.

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

The logic I am hearing on this thread is that Obama is this nice guy who would not bomb Iran and will fix our problems with Russia.

Doesn't anybody remember how George Bush ran for office? He said he was not into policing the world and that he would not be into nation building.

Obama is going to come into a presidency that will have to deal with many hot conflicts overseas. Do you really trust the guy enough that he will not impose a military draft?

Obama has repeatedly said that this war is costing us billions of dollars, but he continues to vote in the senate to fund the war.

Obama said that the telecom companies that violated the law by tracking Americans phone calls should be punished, but then voted to give them immunity.

What other issues will he flip flop on? McCain is obvious. This guy is not so obvious.:confused:

[silverbullet85]

McCain and Obama will both be bad for the country. My personal guess is that if Obama were President then at there is a possibility that more young people would wake up to the fact that both parties are broken, not just the Republicans. If McCain wins, then young people will rally around the Democrat in 2012 just like this year. But... it's just a guess... and not worth considering seriously unless I wanted to vote for the lesser of two evils. Which I don't. And I can't even tell you who that would be...

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

I created this thread to state the reasons why I feel a McCain/Palin presidency would be good for the Campaign for Liberty. I was also hoping to foster a healthy and much needed debate on this controversial subject.

After hearing responces from both sides I have to say that both a McCain Presidency or Obama Presidency offer us many advantages as well as disadvantages.

The disadvantages are obvious in both scenarios. The advantages should be our focus in this movement after election day on November 4, 2008. Unity should be our goal and division our last option.

[anaconda]

Please stop this "lesser of two evils" thread. Please.

Vote 3rd Party.

[anaconda]

The logic I am hearing on this thread is that Obama is this nice guy who would not bomb Iran and will fix our problems with Russia.

Doesn't anybody remember how George Bush ran for office? He said he was not into policing the world and that he would not be into nation building.


Obama will terrorize the innocent people of Afghanistan.

Vote 3rd Party. they all committed Wednesday to no military interventionism.

[I Am Weasel]

I'll still write in Ron Paul. And the rest of you all can go.. well.. whatever. I'm sick.. absolutely SICK of coming onto the RON PAUL forums to have people who know the truth behind what's wrong with our country try to rationalize why Obama or McCain should be voted in. People such as yourselves are why Ron Paul never got nominated to begin with.

[dude58677]

I am sorry, I am just looking at our options because it appears to me that McCain will win. I don't see how Obama can make up the 5-point disparity in the current polling without a weak debate performance by McCain.

The national polls are irrelevant. Obama is winning the intrade Electoral Map that is updated by the hour. The intrade maps are based on where people put their money.

[RonpaulSupporter7777]

Ron Paul is oughtta the race. Don't waste a vote on an invisible candidate. Vote for Nader or Baldwin.

Oh and Obama is my pick for who will win the election.

[DAFTEK]

ohhh, noooo first the why Obama should win now why McCain should win... wtf people.... VOTE 3RD PARTY TO WIN!

[scandinaviany3]

Well that argument will hold no water after the beginning of WWIII.

No way, no how..should any ron paul supporter ever support mccain.

They declared war on us in the party. The want to declare war on anything that moves.

The only war that should be allowed is the one in which we kick them state by state out of the party and take back our country

People should do whatever it takes to get the message out for the 3rd parties baldwin, barr, nader, mckinney

The goal should be to strip all votes from the other guys and be as serious about it as we were for electing ron....

All these guys should be getting millions in donations, man power, etc coming to them...else we are not really supporting ron..

:p

[scandinaviany3]

Neither side will allow the other the power to do it. The president can declare war but it takes congress to fund it. A McCain Presidency is 4 years of pissed of gridlock.

just like they stopped iraq???

[torchbearer]

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Palin-39prepared-for-war-with.4488838.jp

Palin 'prepared for war with Russia on Georgia'
(sorry, but your children and grand children need to die to protect our interest in Georgia)



Published Date: 13 September 2008
By CHRIS STEPHEN
SARAH Palin warned yesterday she would be prepared to go to war with Russia to protect Georgia in her first interview since John McCain chose her as his vice-presidential nominee.

Calling Russia's invasion of its neighbor unprovoked, the Republican said she supported Georgia's application to join Nato even if it meant the United States could face a future confrontation with Moscow.

"I mean, that is the agreement when you are a Nato ally. If another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon to help."

Her comments, broadly in line with the robust stance of Mr McCain, came amid criticism that the McCain camp had kept her away from the press for the fortnight since she was chosen for the ticket.

Opinion polls now show Mr McCain level with, or narrowly leading, Obama nationally.

The Palin interview was by turns feisty and nervous. She told ABC's Charles Gibson that despite having visited only four other countries in her life, and having never met a foreign head of state, she was prepared to take the helm in the event of a mishap befalling 72-year-old Mr McCain.

"I'm ready," she said. "I have the confidence in that readiness and knowing that you can't blink. You have to be wired in a way of being so committed to the mission, the mission that we're on – reform of this country and victory in the war."

She gave enigmatic answers when asked if she would support Israeli strikes against Iranian nuclear installations, and on whether it was right to send troops into Pakistan after Osama bin Laden.

And she seemed off-guard when Gibson asked if she agreed with the Bush doctrine.

"In what respect, Charlie?" said Mrs Palin.

Gibson said: "What do you interpret it to be?"

"I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism, terrorists who are hell-bent on destroying our nation," she replied.

Gibson said the doctrine was formulated in 2002 and allowed for pre-emptive strikes on nations posing a threat.

"Charlie, if there is a legitimate and enough intelligence that tells us that a strike is imminent against American people, we have every right to defend our country," Mrs Palin said.

Critics judged the performance competent, not inspiring. Some of the answers may have surprised Mrs Palin's boss: Mr McCain is busy courting the green vote and is opposed to oil drilling in Alaskan wildlife refuges, but his running mate insists she supports it.

"We'll agree to disagree," she said, "but I'm gonna keep pushing that and I think eventually we're all gonna come together on that one."

Mrs Palin also appeared confused over her position on climate change, denying she once claimed it was not man-made.

"I have not said that," she said. "Show me where I have ever said that there's absolute proof that nothing man has ever conducted or engaged in has had any effect or no effect on climate change."

In fact, said ABC, she made the claim twice last year, telling one Alaskan newspaper: "I'm not an Al Gore, doom-and-gloom environmentalist, blaming the changes in our climate on human activity."

The interview is likely to further polarise opinion on the woman who all agree has turned this presidential election into a cliffhanger, convincing critics she is inexperienced, and supporters that she is tough and intelligent.

Meanwhile, the Obama campaign, which has stuttered of late, effectively relaunched.

"Today is the first day of the rest of the campaign," Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said in a strategy memo. "We will respond with speed and ferocity to John McCain's attacks and we will take the fight to him, but we will do it on the big issues that matter to the American people."

The newest hard-line ad includes unflattering footage of Mr McCain in the early Eighties, wearing giant glasses and an out-of-style suit, interspersed with shots of a disco ball, a clunky phone, an outdated computer and a Rubik's Cube.

An Obama spokesman said the campaign was not making an issue of 72-year-old Mr McCain's age, but the time he's spent in Washington.

[ShowMeLiberty]

I like the idea of McCain winning just because no one political party would control everything and the amount of damage that they could do would be limited.

This is the one and only good thing that could come of McCain winning.

I'm not voting for him, but given the reality that it will either be McCain or Obama in the White House next year, I'd rather it be McCain for that one reason alone.

[KenInMontiMN]

So many states stand on the verge of a turnover in party leadership- not because our delegates are a clear majority but because enough other conservative republicans have become disgusted with the tactics and positions of the neocon-aligned top brass also, and are therefore in the process of coming back around to more traditional GOP values.

GOP disaster in November bodes very well for this movement gaining a much greater foothold in calling the future shots. GOP success in November makes that a much more uphill battle, if not flat-out impossible, as the top brass rallies and pulls in their more disgruntled support around that success.

For the Liberty movement it isn't about who is the worst presidential choice. Its got to be about an outcome that advances our standing and place within the party, or the Liberty movement within the GOP is set back tremendously, essentially relegated to ongoing outsider status.

[torchbearer]

So many states stand on the verge of a turnover in party leadership- not because our delegates are a clear majority but because enough other conservative republicans have become disgusted with the tactics and positions of the neocon-aligned top brass also, and are therefore in the process of coming back around to more traditional GOP values.

GOP disaster in November bodes very well for this movement gaining a much greater foothold in calling the future shots. GOP success in November makes that a much more uphill battle, if not flat-out impossible, as the top brass rallies and pulls in their more disgruntled support around that success.

For the Liberty movement it isn't about who is the worst presidential choice. Its got to be about an outcome that advances our standing and place within the party, or the Liberty movement within the GOP is set back tremendously, essentially relegated to ongoing outsider status.

+1776 internets.

[angelatc]

"I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism, terrorists who are hell-bent on destroying our nation," she replied.

That's probably at least partially true. He really did try. But he actually only succeeded in increasing their numbers.

[angelatc]

This is the one and only good thing that could come of McCain winning.

I'm not voting for him, but given the reality that it will either be McCain or Obama in the White House next year, I'd rather it be McCain for that one reason alone.

Except that it isn't true. McCain will let the liberals do whatever they want with social policy, as long as they allow him the freedom to take over the world with the soldiers.

The draft is public service - that is something they agree on.

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

nt

[Birdlady]

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Palin-39prepared-for-war-with.4488838.jp

Palin 'prepared for war with Russia on Georgia'
(sorry, but your children and grand children need to die to protect our interest in Georgia)

Published Date: 13 September 2008
By CHRIS STEPHEN
SARAH Palin warned yesterday she would be prepared to go to war with Russia to protect Georgia in her first interview since John McCain chose her as his vice-presidential nominee.

Calling Russia's invasion of its neighbor unprovoked, the Republican said she supported Georgia's application to join Nato even if it meant the United States could face a future confrontation with Moscow.

"I mean, that is the agreement when you are a Nato ally. If another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon to help."

Her comments, broadly in line with the robust stance of Mr McCain, came amid criticism that the McCain camp had kept her away from the press for the fortnight since she was chosen for the ticket.

Opinion polls now show Mr McCain level with, or narrowly leading, Obama nationally.

The Palin interview was by turns feisty and nervous. She told ABC's Charles Gibson that despite having visited only four other countries in her life, and having never met a foreign head of state, she was prepared to take the helm in the event of a mishap befalling 72-year-old Mr McCain.

"I'm ready," she said. "I have the confidence in that readiness and knowing that you can't blink. You have to be wired in a way of being so committed to the mission, the mission that we're on – reform of this country and victory in the war."

She gave enigmatic answers when asked if she would support Israeli strikes against Iranian nuclear installations, and on whether it was right to send troops into Pakistan after Osama bin Laden.

And she seemed off-guard when Gibson asked if she agreed with the Bush doctrine.

"In what respect, Charlie?" said Mrs Palin.

Gibson said: "What do you interpret it to be?"

"I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism, terrorists who are hell-bent on destroying our nation," she replied.

Gibson said the doctrine was formulated in 2002 and allowed for pre-emptive strikes on nations posing a threat.

"Charlie, if there is a legitimate and enough intelligence that tells us that a strike is imminent against American people, we have every right to defend our country," Mrs Palin said.

Critics judged the performance competent, not inspiring. Some of the answers may have surprised Mrs Palin's boss: Mr McCain is busy courting the green vote and is opposed to oil drilling in Alaskan wildlife refuges, but his running mate insists she supports it.

"We'll agree to disagree," she said, "but I'm gonna keep pushing that and I think eventually we're all gonna come together on that one."

Mrs Palin also appeared confused over her position on climate change, denying she once claimed it was not man-made.

"I have not said that," she said. "Show me where I have ever said that there's absolute proof that nothing man has ever conducted or engaged in has had any effect or no effect on climate change."

In fact, said ABC, she made the claim twice last year, telling one Alaskan newspaper: "I'm not an Al Gore, doom-and-gloom environmentalist, blaming the changes in our climate on human activity."

The interview is likely to further polarise opinion on the woman who all agree has turned this presidential election into a cliffhanger, convincing critics she is inexperienced, and supporters that she is tough and intelligent.

Meanwhile, the Obama campaign, which has stuttered of late, effectively relaunched.

"Today is the first day of the rest of the campaign," Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said in a strategy memo. "We will respond with speed and ferocity to John McCain's attacks and we will take the fight to him, but we will do it on the big issues that matter to the American people."

The newest hard-line ad includes unflattering footage of Mr McCain in the early Eighties, wearing giant glasses and an out-of-style suit, interspersed with shots of a disco ball, a clunky phone, an outdated computer and a Rubik's Cube.

An Obama spokesman said the campaign was not making an issue of 72-year-old Mr McCain's age, but the time he's spent in Washington.

What makes you think Obama won't want to start a war in Russia. All he would need for this to occur is another "new pearl harbor" to get Americans behind it. Much like what Bush used to get into Afghanistan and Iraq. I am more scared of a new "terrorist" attack if Obama is elected because he has run on an anti-war platform. In order for his followers to go along with a new war, they will HAVE to "stage" a new attack. Joe Biden met with pakistani ISI 2 days after 9-11, so he has must have some type of connection with the people carrying out these attacks. He knew that they were funding the hijackers.

Palin is scary, but I don't think Obama will help us at all. At least all the democrats knows McCain and Palin are warmongers. They actually think Obama will get us out of the wars when he has said he'd like to increase the troop levels in Afghanistan and possibly attack Pakistan. That's pretty unbelievable coming from the "anti-war" candidate, which needs to be renamed to "anti-Iraq" or "anti-republican war" candidate. Whichever wars the democrats get us in, the Obama followers will praise and say it is was the right thing to do.

Meanwhile the Republicans will say the Democrat wars are evil and terrible. No matter what happens, the parties will flip flop on their positions and the two party system will prevail.

[torchbearer]

What makes you think Obama won't want to start a war in Russia. All he would need for this to occur is another "new pearl harbor" to get Americans behind it. Much like what Bush used to get into Afghanistan and Iraq. I am more scared of a new "terrorist" attack if Obama is elected because he has run on an anti-war platform. In order for his followers to go along with a new war, they will HAVE to "stage" a new attack. Joe Biden met with pakistani ISI 2 days after 9-11, so he has must have some type of connection with the people carrying out these attacks. He knew that they were funding the hijackers.

Palin is scary, but I don't think Obama will help us at all. At least all the democrats knows McCain and Palin are warmongers. They actually think Obama will get us out of the wars when he has said he'd like to increase the troop levels in Afghanistan and possibly attack Pakistan. That's pretty unbelievable coming from the "anti-war" candidate, which needs to be renamed to "anti-Iraq" or "anti-republican war" candidate. Whichever wars the democrats get us in, the Obama followers will praise and say it is was the right thing to do.

Meanwhile the Republicans will say the Democrat wars are evil and terrible. No matter what happens, the parties will flip flop on their positions and the two party system will prevail.

Did I say Obama wouldn't? Is this a horse race to who is more evil?
I'm dispelling this idea that Palin is really one of "us".
She isn't.
Stop putting words in my mouth, and read the information. It is her own words.

[Birdlady]

Did I say Obama wouldn't? Is this a horse race to who is more evil?
I'm dispelling this idea that Palin is really one of "us".
She isn't.
Stop putting words in my mouth, and read the information. It is her own words.

I never said she is one of us. I was explaining that if Obama wins there is a greater chance of a new terrorist attack. I didn't say I'm supporting McCain. I am just giving you my own analysis of the situation.

I see you haven't changed much. I haven't posted on here for over a year because of this exact type of attitude. Stop putting words in my mouth. Actually I'm done again with this forum. Have fun bickering.

[torchbearer]

I never said she is one of us. I was explaining that if Obama wins there is a greater chance of a new terrorist attack. I didn't say I'm supporting McCain. I am just giving you my own analysis of the situation.

I see you haven't changed much. I haven't posted on here for over a year because of this exact type of attitude. Stop putting words in my mouth. Actually I'm done again with this forum. Have fun bickering.

At least you know where I stand. You can't say I'm fickle or capricious... but our membership voting for McCain are both fickle and capricious.

[spacehabitats]

I like the idea of McCain winning just because no one political party would control everything and the amount of damage that they could do would be limited.

The Republicrats and their CFR handlers would still be in total control.

The only time The Conspiracy has ever had a tricky time has been when there was GOP control of both the congress and the Whitehouse. (Ever noticed how rarely THAT happens?)

The last (and only time since Eisenhower) that was the case was during Bush's first term.

The Conspiracy had to do some fancy footwork (and reveal McCain and Bush as the traitorous moles they are) to kill what would have been an effective immigration bill.

The Conspiracy hates having to expose their agents so blatantly. It is far easier to blame the Democrat/Republican congress/administration for sabotaging good bills.

(BTW, I think that McCain is going to be rewarded with the presidency largely because he has proved himself such a willing tool at times like this.)

And whenever there is a truly bad bill (Iraq War, Patriot Act, amnesty for illegal aliens, WTO ratification, etc.) all of a sudden the bipartisan support necessary for passage emerges.

Trust me, when the time comes to officially recognize the North American Union, it won't matter one whit if the congress/presidency are "divided" between the the two major parties.

Our only hope is to replace these idiots with Ron Paul Republicans ASAP!

[ShowMeLiberty]

Except that it isn't true. McCain will let the liberals do whatever they want with social policy, as long as they allow him the freedom to take over the world with the soldiers.

The draft is public service - that is something they agree on.

You're probably right. That's the problem when there's no substantial difference between the two parties that can actually win the election. It doesn't really matter which one gets the job. :(

[DAFTEK]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j182/swiftian/122806/condi_vampire.jpg

READ MY SIGNATURE!!!

[Ron Paul Vermont]

I am not a McCain supporter, but if McCain were to win we wouldn't be better off as a country. We would be better off as a movement.:)

Imagine. A Republican President with a Democratic Congress and a whole base of angry Obama supporters and Independent/Third party supporters.

Imagine how we could unify the country against the executive and force congress to do it's job. McCain would be the most hated president in the history if he tried to go to war with Iran and Russia or decided to impose a military draft.

McCain would start his time in office with a low approval rating.

If Obama were to win we will be up against a group of supporters that have let him get away with:
*Voting to fund the war
*Voting for telecom immunity
*Not pledging to end the war
*Moving more troops into Afganistan
*Proposed sanctions on Iran
*Etc.

These are all things that go against what his liberal base of supporters want, but never the less they believe he is just playing politics to win.

Obama seems to have the popular vote and if he were to win, his supporters will have excuses for everything he does. These are not a group of estatic Neocons, but they are a grassroots movement with lots of special interest pull.

If Obama wins we will have another Bill Clinton on our hands (the man who did nothing wrong and was crucified by evil Republicans, so they say.). If Obama continues Bush policies such as torture and endless war, can we really trust that liberals and progressive Democrats will call him out on it.

If McCain were to win, we would at least have a whole base of Obama supporters on our side rather than a group of President Obama sympathizers with lots of excuses for why he cannot end and prevent wars.

Althought McCain has said many frightening things over the past few weeks of his campaign, just imagine what Obama and a Democratic Congress will pull and get away with.

Please let me know if this is an accurate assessment.:cool:

Dude... don't hide it. You are obviously a McCain supporter considering that you are supporting him right now and comprimising our movement. I would like to state though that our movement would be better off with Obama because then all the extreme lefts would relize that democrats arn't acually anti war. Just my opinion...

[porcupine]

I like the idea of McCain winning just because no one political party would control everything and the amount of damage that they could do would be limited.

+1

split government is best

[Micah Dardar]

I was a Democrat because I thought that they wanted peace. At first, I wouldn't give Ron Paul the time of day because he is a Republican. After I put the label behind me, I realized that Ron Paul was the only anti war candidate. Obama believing in terrorists and attacking Pakistan doesn't make him appealing to someone like me that can get along with people of all cultures. I don't see how the killing will help us.

Ending the war brought me to Ron Paul, but listening to him made me realize that it was more than just the war. I'm glad that he came along when he did and united us. Now I look at any action by the government and spot wasteful spending.

As for our movement, I believe that most of our country is against the war. If Obama proves that the Democrats have the same intentions as the Republicans, our movement will benefit from it. I realized it early enough to vote for Ron Paul in the primary, but I think that urban areas such as New Orleans will be less blue after Obama proves that the only change he has is in his pockets. I really don't think that he has the balls to start trouble with Russia, either, and I don't want to die by a Russian nuclear missile because some idiot-elect can't keep his mouth shut.

[RonPaulR3VOLUTION]

I just want to make it clear that Obama is no less pro-war than McCain is. Obama is just less vocal about it so he doesn't lose his deceived supporters. Just read Obama's own Web site..

I will not be giving either any support what-so-ever.

Obama: Expand the wars -- starting with Pakistan

"The first step must be getting off the wrong battlefield in Iraq, and taking the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan."

"So the second step in my strategy will be to build our capacity and our partnerships to track down, capture or kill terrorists around the world."

"... take down terrorist networks from the remote islands of Indonesia, to the sprawling cities of Africa."

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/the_war_we_need_to_win.php

Will Obama Stand Up to the War Party?
Don't bet the ranch on it
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12942

Cindy Sheehan Exposes Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptu81SGQfLw

"The danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal will be to eliminate this threat," Obama said in a speech to a conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a pro-Israel lobby group.
"I will do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon -- everything," he said to a standing ovation.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSWAT00959220080604

"Pakistani protesters burn a U.S. flag to condemn U.S. presidential hopeful Barack Obama's remarks, in Karachi, Pakistan, Friday."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-08-03-pakistan-obama_N.htm

[erika]

I don't want to vote for McCain but I cannot stand that media proped up goober Obama.

I might not vote for a pres. Skip that part.

[DAFTEK]

http://pregnantandalone.net/f0ed2950.jpg

[Highland]

shut up daftek. who cares?

[DAFTEK]

http://blogs.citypages.com/gop/hates%20mccain.png

[DAFTEK]

http://www.johnmccainusa.com/images/Insane%20McCain.gif

[Micah Dardar]

http://www.johnmccainusa.com/images/Insane%20McCain.gif

I guess he likes D.S.L. more than cable.... tsk tsk tsk

[torchbearer]

I guess he likes D.S.L. more than cable.... tsk tsk tsk

Wish I could poll how many people get the reference.

[DAFTEK]

:)

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

We all agree that both McCain and Obama are the same, policies from the white house for the next 8 years are already set in stone, both major candidates will have virtually identical, catastrophic effects on our republic, and our candidate asked us to vote third party. Yet we still just spent 12 pages arguing why one might be better than the other.

Why?:mad:

[Highland]

shut up daftek. who cares?

ugghhhh I meant to say "shut up RonPaulsupporter7777"

sorry Daftek

[silverbullet85]

McCain = Obama = Evil. How is this thread still going? :confused: