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amy31416
09-12-2008, 10:19 AM
So, I wrote the LP in regards to this petition and Barr's action and the damage to the party.

I said:
To whom this may concern,

As I'm sure you're well aware, many libertarians and potential Libertarians were very turned off by not only Barr's actions in regards to Ron Paul's press conference, but the insulting responses from his official campaign that further insulted RP supporters and praised George W. Bush's courage.

We implore the leaders of the LP to take a stance one way or another in order to preserve the unprecedented potential support they have received this year, due in no small part to Ron Paul's ground-breaking campaign for president. Personally, I had every intention of voting for Barr this fall, but am now in the position where I must vote against him, just as I must vote against McCain and Obama. There are many others who feel the same way. Barr had an opportunity to get more support than any other Libertarian candidate in the past, thus shoring up ballot access in the future. Barr's campaign has single-handedly destroyed that possibility.

This petition is hardly more than 24 hours old and has almost 700 signatures calling for the removal of Barr from the presidential ticket. We encourage you to take a strong stand for the sake of this party's future. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RemoveBobBar/index.html

Sincerely,

Amy
Former Barr supporter


He said:


Thanks.

I said:


You're welcome?

he said:

Maybe?

I said:


Definitely!?

He said:


Positively absolutely!

(this is a fun game)

I said:


Glad you're enjoying it. Slow day at work?


Now, I'm certainly not a stickler for professionalism after you get to know another person, but doesn't it seem odd that he'd be that unprofessional with a complete stranger?

Maybe he just thinks I'm batty because of the petition.

acptulsa
09-12-2008, 10:22 AM
They sure are going to great pains on every front to demonstrate that they just don't give a $#!+, aren't they?

Amazing, amazing...

RockEnds
09-12-2008, 10:23 AM
Creepy?

nullvalu
09-12-2008, 10:26 AM
That's from the Director of Communications? And he can't even write a full one-sentence response? WTF? :)

szczebrzeszyn
09-12-2008, 10:27 AM
Definitely odd... But I would interpret it as "Thanks, whatever"

tropicangela
09-12-2008, 10:27 AM
Anyone have confirmation that everyone at the LP is alive and breathing?

amy31416
09-12-2008, 10:28 AM
That's from the Director of Communications? And he can't even write a full one-sentence response? WTF? :)

It's from this gent:

Andrew Davis
Director of Communications
Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
Andrew.davis@lp.org
Office: 202-333-0008 ext. 225
Cell: 202-731-0002

"Let no man posture as an advocate of
peace if he proposes or supports any
social system that initiates the use of force
against individual men, in any form."
- Ayn Rand

Spider-Man
09-12-2008, 10:30 AM
In all fairness, Andrew Davis took a phone call from me on the morning of September 10, and listened to me chew him out about Barr. He said I was entitled to my opinion. Didn't strike me as unprofessional, he's just tired of hearing it by this point.

constituent
09-12-2008, 10:32 AM
In all fairness, Andrew Davis took a phone call from me on the morning of September 10, and listened to me chew him out about Barr. He said I was entitled to my opinion. Didn't strike me as unprofessional, he's just tired of hearing it by this point.

good. keep going and maybe they'll get the point.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 10:33 AM
In all fairness, Andrew Davis took a phone call from me on the morning of September 10, and listened to me chew him out about Barr. He said I was entitled to my opinion. Didn't strike me as unprofessional, he's just tired of hearing it by this point.

Ahh. Well, perhaps he failed "first impressions 101" in college.

acptulsa
09-12-2008, 10:34 AM
The fact that he/she/it would take the time to respond yet not do it in a meaningful way speaks volumes. And I don't like the message at all.

If the last three days haven't been a deliberate attempt to scuttle the LP from the inside, someone sure is going to great pains to make it look like one. Another logical explanation I cannot even imagine.

Cowlesy
09-12-2008, 10:34 AM
He should have just replied "lolcatz", to which you could have said "I can haz cheezburger?"

amy31416
09-12-2008, 10:35 AM
He should have just replied "lolcatz", to which you could have said "I can haz cheezburger?"

Well the correspondence is still continuing, it just might get to that.

itshappening
09-12-2008, 10:38 AM
Davies should be fired!

that said I think the purists in their party would be aghast at Barr appearing with socialists so maybe that's why they're not bothered?

ARealConservative
09-12-2008, 10:38 AM
I passed out 129 fliers last night regarding the 2 party duopoly.......

amy31416
09-12-2008, 10:39 AM
I passed out 129 fliers last night regarding the 2 party duopoly.......

For it or against it? :p

acptulsa
09-12-2008, 10:40 AM
Davies should be fired!

that said I think the purists in their party would be aghast at Barr appearing with socialists so maybe that's why they're not bothered?

Since when is the point of running Barr to please the LP purists?

moostraks
09-12-2008, 10:41 AM
Okay this is freakish. What alternative existence did we all get dropped into this week? I don't care if he is tired of hearing it or not. A little professionalism on their part would be nice...
Now they are letting elementary school children answer emails?

amy31416
09-12-2008, 10:42 AM
I kid you not, he's talking in the lolcatz dialect now. Granted, I did start it.

rajibo
09-12-2008, 10:48 AM
Are you sure you didn't accidentally email the White House?

amy31416
09-12-2008, 10:49 AM
Are you sure you didn't accidentally email the White House?

I guess it's possible.

voytechs
09-12-2008, 10:54 AM
That's from the Director of Communications? And he can't even write a full one-sentence response? WTF? :)

My be you your talking to his hamster who's been taught a few responses on the keyboard? I say that because I can't tell the difference from just the responses themselves.

voytechs
09-12-2008, 10:55 AM
Hey may be they practice what they preach and everyone there is stoned out of their minds?

Menthol Patch
09-12-2008, 10:56 AM
Keep signing the petition everyone!

BenIsForRon
09-12-2008, 10:57 AM
I think the LP is forgetting that the grassroots is where their true strengths lie. They're really working hard at converting fiscal conservatives in the republican party right now, so they don't realize they're shooting themselves in the foot with things like this.

dannno
09-12-2008, 10:57 AM
I kid you not, he's talking in the lolcatz dialect now. Granted, I did start it.

Is he very fluent?

ARealConservative
09-12-2008, 10:57 AM
For it or against it? :p

who seems most eager to burn this movement to the ground?

:p

amy31416
09-12-2008, 11:01 AM
Is he very fluent?

Dunno, you tell me:


Him:

I can haz an answer? (I asked no question)

Me:

I can haz a reel liburtarian 4 votez?

Him:

u had reel librian,

but u eated it.

Me:

Barr iz reel libturian?

I iz not finished, wear iz A1 sauce?

The end. Don't judge me harshly, lolcatz is not my first language.

nullvalu
09-12-2008, 11:06 AM
How about you recite John 3:16 is lolcat?

So liek teh Ceiling Cat lieks teh ppl lots and he sez 'Oh hai I givez u me only kitteh and ifs u beleevs in him u wont evr diez no moar, k?'17 Cuz teh Ceiling Cat not snd hiz son 2 take all yur cookies, but so u cud maek moar cookies 4EVAR!18 U beleevz him u getz cheezburgrs, but els you get invisibul error.

http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=John_3

moostraks
09-12-2008, 11:07 AM
Seems somewhat fluent...Luv the a1 comment!

speciallyblend
09-12-2008, 11:07 AM
sectarian violence happening as we speak within the LP , should we call police???:)

amy31416
09-12-2008, 11:09 AM
How about you recite John 3:16 is lolcat?

So liek teh Ceiling Cat lieks teh ppl lots and he sez 'Oh hai I givez u me only kitteh and ifs u beleevs in him u wont evr diez no moar, k?'17 Cuz teh Ceiling Cat not snd hiz son 2 take all yur cookies, but so u cud maek moar cookies 4EVAR!18 U beleevz him u getz cheezburgrs, but els you get invisibul error.

http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=John_3

That's freaking hilarious!


Seems somewhat fluent...Luv the a1 comment!

Thenk yew.

speciallyblend
09-12-2008, 11:09 AM
How about you recite John 3:16 is lolcat?

So liek teh Ceiling Cat lieks teh ppl lots and he sez 'Oh hai I givez u me only kitteh and ifs u beleevs in him u wont evr diez no moar, k?'17 Cuz teh Ceiling Cat not snd hiz son 2 take all yur cookies, but so u cud maek moar cookies 4EVAR!18 U beleevz him u getz cheezburgrs, but els you get invisibul error.

http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=John_3

i must be old, i am not going to open that dam link, i do not want to know;)

acptulsa
09-12-2008, 11:10 AM
sectarian violence happening as we speak within the LP , should we call police???:)

Nah. You know they'll call it justice if they're winning, and if they're not it will be 'genocide'.

nullvalu
09-12-2008, 11:10 AM
i must be old, i am not going to open that dam link, i do not want to know;)

probably better you don't.. so far they've translated 60% of the Bible to lolcat.

acptulsa
09-12-2008, 11:14 AM
probably better you don't.. so far they've translated 60% of the Bible to lolcat.

Now that's just plain scary. And I thought the Klingon linguists were crazy...

FindLiberty
09-12-2008, 11:18 AM
RE OP:

If that LP communications person floats, then they're a witch, and if they sink they must be a witch too.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 11:20 AM
re op:

If that lp communications person floats, then they're a witch, and if they sink they must be a witch too.

burn him! :p

moostraks
09-12-2008, 11:22 AM
RE OP:

If that LP communications person floats, then they're a witch, and if they sink they must be a witch too.

ROFL and this is coming from a former wiccan...:D

acptulsa
09-12-2008, 11:23 AM
RE OP:

If that LP communications person floats, then they're a witch, and if they sink they must be a witch too.

Just pull that little handle and flush him away with the rest of his ilk...

Orgoonian
09-12-2008, 11:33 AM
The LP has been taken over by pod people :eek:


http://www.yale.edu/anime/imgarchive/Full%20Metal%20Alchemist/fear-the-mustang.jpg

acptulsa
09-12-2008, 11:36 AM
Well, I tried a different bait on my hook and attempted a little trolling. I seem to have been too obvious. No response whatsoever...

SnappleLlama
09-12-2008, 11:37 AM
I luvs this thread so much!!!

*pic of cat hugging yarn*

EDIT: Amy, that is seriously odd. Any chances you can send this bizarre story to the masses? ;)

amy31416
09-12-2008, 11:41 AM
I luvs this thread so much!!!

*pic of cat hugging yarn*

EDIT: Amy, that is seriously odd. Any chances you can send this bizarre story to the masses? ;)

If there's anyone who's interested in it, the story is theirs for the taking.

SnappleLlama
09-12-2008, 11:43 AM
If there's anyone who's interested in it, the story is theirs for the taking.

Hey, I'm sure some networks would love to get the scoop on the LP Director of Communications and his apparent affinity for lolcatz conversations! :D

acptulsa
09-12-2008, 11:48 AM
Hey, I'm sure some networks would love to get the scoop on the LP Director of Communications and his apparent affinity for lolcatz conversations! :D

I doubt it.

The MSM may well crow about the death of the party (as CNN did), but will never crow about the heavy-handedness behind it. Though, I must say, if they do refuse to cover something this potentially amusing, it is a good indication that Mr. Davies is enjoying some form of protection...

LittleLightShining
09-12-2008, 02:30 PM
Dunno, you tell me:


...

The end. Don't judge me harshly, lolcatz is not my first language.

You're frickin' kidding us, right?

:( (Because I know you're not.) They really are trying to sink the ship.

angelatc
09-12-2008, 02:35 PM
They sure are going to great pains on every front to demonstrate that they just don't give a $#!+, aren't they?

Amazing, amazing...

Remember when people used to complain they couldn't get their emails to the RP campaign answered?

This is worse. :)

aspiringconstitutionalist
09-12-2008, 02:36 PM
This guy's the LP's DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS???

THIS is why the Libertarian Party is and always will be a THIRD party.

The Libertarian Party needs to get its damn act together and GROW UP.

angelatc
09-12-2008, 02:37 PM
Ahh. Well, perhaps he failed "first impressions 101" in college.

Not to mention "Boilerplate Responses In The Western World."

amy31416
09-12-2008, 02:38 PM
You're frickin' kidding us, right?

:( (Because I know you're not.) They really are trying to sink the ship.

Naw. I'm not. Anyone who'd like the emails forwarded for confirmation are certainly welcome to PM me.

From what little I've heard about this kid, he's a 2007 college grad who is vehemently anti-gay. Other than that (which is certainly not verified info) I don't know anything about him or how he got that position.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 02:38 PM
In all fairness, Andrew Davis took a phone call from me on the morning of September 10, and listened to me chew him out about Barr. He said I was entitled to my opinion. Didn't strike me as unprofessional, he's just tired of hearing it by this point.

Well, considering most of you aren't members of the LP nor have you donated jack shit to them or their cause I don't think they should care what you think. You want to take without giving. Socialism?

ARealConservative
09-12-2008, 02:41 PM
an online petition with 700 signatures

How many people took time, energy, and money to go to Denver and participate in the process?

I would of been a lot less civil.

My reply would of been:


Are you fucking kidding me? The convention is over. Rather then wasting our time with online signatures that won't amount to anything, how about you go canvass your neighborhood and get as many of your fellow constituents to vote for the candidate of your preference.

angelatc
09-12-2008, 02:41 PM
This guy's the LP's DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS???

THIS is why the Libertarian Party is and always will be a THIRD party.

The Libertarian Party needs to get its damn act together and GROW UP.

That's sort of what I was thinking. It's still not a party for grown ups.

mtmedlin
09-12-2008, 02:42 PM
Well, considering most of you aren't members of the LP nor have you donated jack shit to them or their cause I don't think they should care what you think. You want to take without giving. Socialism?

Sorry bub, card carrying/dues paying member since 1994. My voice better be heard by those assclowns. If they keep pissing off us old guard, there in deep shit!

acptulsa
09-12-2008, 02:43 PM
Well, considering most of you aren't members of the LP nor have you donated jack shit to them or their cause I don't think they should care what you think. You want to take without giving. Socialism?

Just trying to show them where the votes are--and aren't...

acptulsa
09-12-2008, 02:46 PM
But since y'all are so obsessed with the delegates themselves, please do take a look at what Barr is doing to unify them:

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/09/motion-to-remove-barr-as-lp-nominee-has-been-written/

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 02:46 PM
Sorry bub, card carrying/dues paying member since 1994. My voice better be heard by those assclowns. If they keep pissing off us old guard, there in deep shit!

Notice I said most. Not to mention, the libertarians had a chance to elect others, including Ron, who Barr courted for the nomination before this all began. You so mad? Become a delegate for the LP next time.

xtravar
09-12-2008, 02:48 PM
This guy's the LP's DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS???

THIS is why the Libertarian Party is and always will be a THIRD party.

The Libertarian Party needs to get its damn act together and GROW UP.

Yeah, they should be more like the other parties, who would ignore this drivel.

speciallyblend
09-12-2008, 02:49 PM
Well, considering most of you aren't members of the LP nor have you donated jack shit to them or their cause I don't think they should care what you think. You want to take without giving. Socialism?

this is your fatal flaw in thinking , i was a 12 yr lp member and i still vote and that makes me worth hearing ,since i have donated time and energy to the lp,now if they do not need me fine;) lets see who steps up in my area for the lp;)

mtmedlin
09-12-2008, 02:51 PM
Notice I said most. Not to mention, the libertarians had a chance to elect others, including Ron, who Barr courted for the nomination before this all began. You so mad? Become a delegate for the LP next time.

The LP uses a stupid ass way of electing their nominees. I dont have the time nor money to fly out to their convention. As few members as there are, it would be just as easy to do an online vote. This would also be the more Democratic way to do it but they want to look like the big boys, so this is the type of mess that we get. I freaking love the ideals of the LP but its about time that they get off their ass make a real change instead of shooting themselves inthe foot every 4 years. The last time I like the LP was when Harry Browne ran the first time. They have been getting more and more depserate/stupid since then.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 02:52 PM
this is your fatal flaw in thinking , i was a 12 yr lp member and i still vote and that makes me worth hearing ,since i have donated time and energy to the lp,now if they do not need me fine;) lets see who steps up in my area for the lp;)

So you're admitting you're NOT a member of the party, correct? I'm willing to bet I've been around a little longer ;). Not to mention there are many delegates and prominent positions in the LP that do support Barr.


Like I said, if you had such an objection you should have retained your membership and become a delegate. You can't place the blame on Barr....some of it belongs to you for not doing your duty ;) You guys preach responsibility, but none of you have it.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 02:54 PM
The LP uses a stupid ass way of electing their nominees. I dont have the time nor money to fly out to their convention. As few members as there are, it would be just as easy to do an online vote. This would also be the more Democratic way to do it but they want to look like the big boys, so this is the type of mess that we get. I freaking love the ideals of the LP but its about time that they get off their ass make a real change instead of shooting themselves inthe foot every 4 years. The last time I like the LP was when Harry Browne ran the first time. They have been getting more and more depserate/stupid since then.

This is your opinion. If you hate the LP so much, don't bother with them. No one is forcing you to vote for the nominee, but you're voice is basically worthless if you're not contributing or being active within the party. Why should they give a damn about your opinion if this is the case?

On another note, I don't know how libertarian you can be if you have an FDR quote in your sig....

amy31416
09-12-2008, 02:55 PM
This is your opinion. If you hate the LP so much, don't bother with them. No one is forcing you to vote for the nominee, but you're voice is basically worthless if you're not contributing or being active within the party. Why should they give a damn about your opinion if this is the case?

Ho, ho, hoooold the phone there chief.

The majority of people here are not dues-paying, card-carrying members of the Republican Party either, so that makes them off-limits for criticism?

I don't think so.

xtravar
09-12-2008, 02:56 PM
This is your opinion. If you hate the LP so much, don't bother with them. No one is forcing you to vote for the nominee, but you're voice is basically worthless if you're not contributing or being active within the party. Why should they give a damn about your opinion if this is the case?

On another note, I don't know how libertarian you can be if you have an FDR quote in your sig....

But the LP is pure evil and they're full of neocon shills from the CIA, FBI, and TSA and they just want to hurt Ron Paul's feelings and they make me so mad!!!!! And they caused 9/11 with controlled demolition.

(just kidding)

ProBlue33
09-12-2008, 02:57 PM
He is saying to you in a nutshell

"It is, what it is"

people say that when they don't want to deal with a situation anymore or they don't care to discuss it, because they know it's true, so why bother trying to defend the position and look stupid.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 03:04 PM
Ho, ho, hoooold the phone there chief.

The majority of people here are not dues-paying, card-carrying members of the Republican Party either, so that makes them off-limits for criticism?

I don't think so.

Well, you have to realize the party is just that...a party. You don't have to be associated with any party, but if you claim to be affiliated and want to have some kind of influence you should be trying to support your party. Why the hell should the republican party care about what you think? Start your own party if you want people that aren't affiliated to try and dictate what you should and shouldn't be doing with your organization. They aren't required to do anything for you. It works both ways, bud. Just because you think your opinion is righteous doesn't make it so. I imagine you have yet to reach the real world, but people don't head just because you say so. You want to have a say in an organization? Join them, be active, and contribute; otherwise you're no better than a tv talk show host telling a total stranger how to run their life. If you were a contributing member to the party and they started using funds you provided to take the party in a different direction that contradicts the platform I'd say you'd have the right to be pissed....but if you aren't doing jack squat for them why does your opinion matter and why should they care? That's socialism....for the good of the community as a whole. They aren't obligated.

speciallyblend
09-12-2008, 03:10 PM
So you're admitting you're NOT a member of the party, correct? I'm willing to bet I've been around a little longer ;). Not to mention there are many delegates and prominent positions in the LP that do support Barr.


Like I said, if you had such an objection you should have retained your membership and become a delegate. You can't place the blame on Barr....some of it belongs to you for not doing your duty ;) You guys preach responsibility, but none of you have it.
well i guess i could of stayed a lp and said screw ron paul, look i am a lp activist as well and voter and if they do not need me then let the lp crash and burn with barr not my problem,sounds like the lp and barr screwed up, hey they can support barr all they want,but they are gonna lose votes not gain them by their actions , enough said , let them blow me off then, im 40 yrs old and im no virgin in local/state politics , hey the lp doesn't need me they have huge influence and i heard they are gonna win the election;)(sarcasm)

so what your saying is the lp doesn't need me or my vote or my money or my activism ,sounds like a winning plan to me;)

rock and roulsouls your talking out your ass now,you do not know me or my level of support, good luck with barr and the lp, you do not need me they have you to run support in colorado;) get to work ,i will not be helping this lp. the lp blew it by not listening to ron paul or you would be a gop member and helping retake the party you lp people ran away when the gop became tough, like kid who got their candy taken by mom and dad. if you are not a registered republican then your full of shit about supporting ron pauls movement... i listened to ron paul and left the lp of 12 yrs to help the revolution,sounds like you did nothing if you are not a registered gop member other then post on forums like your the lp king or queen or something , the lp/cp blew it by not jumping back into the gop the party you left in the first place,sounds like you you were on the sidelines if you are not a member of the gop at this moment..

amy31416
09-12-2008, 03:11 PM
Well, you have to realize the party is just that...a party. You don't have to be associated with any party, but if you claim to be affiliated and want to have some kind of influence you should be trying to support your party. Why the hell should the republican party care about what you think? Start your own party if you want people that aren't affiliated to try and dictate what you should and shouldn't be doing with your organization. They aren't required to do anything for you. It works both ways, bud. Just because you think your opinion is righteous doesn't make it so. I imagine you have yet to reach the real world, but people don't head just because you say so. You want to have a say in an organization? Join them, be active, and contribute; otherwise you're no better than a tv talk show host telling a total stranger how to run their life. If you were a contributing member to the party and they started using funds you provided to take the party in a different direction that contradicts the platform I'd say you'd have the right to be pissed....but if you aren't doing jack squat for them why does your opinion matter and why should they care? That's socialism....for the good of the community as a whole. They aren't obligated.

Don't you get it? I was supporting the LP by deciding that I would vote for Barr. The only reason I was going to vote for the guy was so the party would get future ballot access, because I like the party a heck of a lot better than the GOP.

I have gone back and forth many times on whether or not I should join the party, as I'm sure many others around here have. I'm especially pissed at Barr, because he's wrecking that potential.

My criticism of the party only means that I have not yet given up on them entirely. Don't worry, I'm coming around to that.

xtravar
09-12-2008, 03:16 PM
My criticism of the party only means that I have not yet given up on them entirely. Don't worry, I'm coming around to that.

Your criticism consists of asking them to give up their presidential bid entirely this year. Don't you think that's a little unreasonable? While the Barr campaign may have screwed up, there's not a whole lot the LP can do about it now.

speciallyblend
09-12-2008, 03:19 PM
Your criticism consists of asking them to give up their presidential bid entirely this year. Don't you think that's a little unreasonable? While the Barr campaign may have screwed up, there's not a whole lot the LP can do about it now.

oo yes there is,but we have a simple solution to hold the lp and barr acountable our vote,dont blame us ,blame the lying barr and the lp since barr represents the lp, the lp can do alot,but they will fail to and they will lose our votes and many more by their actions.


blame is with barr not us...

how to kill a campaign in 30 minutes by bob barr;)

amy31416
09-12-2008, 03:20 PM
Your criticism consists of asking them to give up their presidential bid entirely this year. Don't you think that's a little unreasonable? While the Barr campaign may have screwed up, there's not a whole lot the LP can do about it now.

They could attempt to do something, anything to salvage the new support they have, instead they do nothing.

Do I really expect that Barr will get the boot? Nope.

Do I want them to know that they effed up big-time by choosing Barr? Yep.

What should I do? Send them an FTD "I'm sad" boquet?

speciallyblend
09-12-2008, 03:21 PM
They could attempt to do something, anything to salvage the new support they have, instead they do nothing.

Do I really expect that Barr will get the boot? Nope.

Do I want them to know that they effed up big-time by choosing Barr? Yep.

What should I do? Send them an FTD "I'm sad" boquet?

send them nails for their campaign coffin!!!!

ARealConservative
09-12-2008, 03:22 PM
oo yes there is,but we have a simple solution to hold the lp and barr acountable our vote,dont blame us ,blame the lying barr and the lp since barr represents the lp, the lp can do alot,but they will fail to and they will lose our votes and many more by their actions.


blame is with barr not us...

how to kill a campaign in 30 minutes by bob barr;)

Ron Paul backed out on a few scheduled appearances during the course of his campaign. I recall Glenn Beck getting pretty mad about it as well.

How come when Barr does it, it amounts to being a liar?

amy31416
09-12-2008, 03:23 PM
Ron Paul backed out on a few scheduled appearances during the course of his campaign. I recall Glenn Beck getting pretty mad about it as well.

How come when Barr does it, it amounts to being a liar?

We were/some still are pretty pissed about that. But Paul wasn't grandstanding like Barr was.

ARealConservative
09-12-2008, 03:32 PM
We were/some still are pretty pissed about that. But Paul wasn't grandstanding like Barr was.

Grandstanding? Barr is the one running for president now and he has been put in a defensive position by the CFL.

Personally, I wish Paul did more grandstanding when he ran, like the book reading list to Guliani.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 03:32 PM
Don't you get it? I was supporting the LP by deciding that I would vote for Barr. The only reason I was going to vote for the guy was so the party would get future ballot access, because I like the party a heck of a lot better than the GOP.

I have gone back and forth many times on whether or not I should join the party, as I'm sure many others around here have. I'm especially pissed at Barr, because he's wrecking that potential.

My criticism of the party only means that I have not yet given up on them entirely. Don't worry, I'm coming around to that.

No no no, you SAID you were supporting the LP. Your actions prove otherwise. You're not a member and you never donated a penny to them.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 03:34 PM
No no no, you SAID you were supporting the LP. Your actions prove otherwise. You're not a member and you never donated a penny to them.

I second this. Amy once told me in a PM exchange that she won't join the LP because some of the "radical" views of the radical caucus.

So she was never a member. But this is just my neutral input to the discussion :D

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 03:35 PM
well i guess i could of stayed a lp and said screw ron paul, look i am a lp activist as well and voter and if they do not need me then let the lp crash and burn with barr not my problem,sounds like the lp and barr screwed up, hey they can support barr all they want,but they are gonna lose votes not gain them by their actions , enough said , let them blow me off then, im 40 yrs old and im no virgin in local/state politics , hey the lp doesn't need me they have huge influence and i heard they are gonna win the election;)(sarcasm)

so what your saying is the lp doesn't need me or my vote or my money or my activism ,sounds like a winning plan to me;)

rock and roulsouls your talking out your ass now,you do not know me or my level of support, good luck with barr and the lp, you do not need me they have you to run support in colorado;) get to work ,i will not be helping this lp. the lp blew it by not listening to ron paul or you would be a gop member and helping retake the party you lp people ran away when the gop became tough, like kid who got their candy taken by mom and dad. if you are not a registered republican then your full of shit about supporting ron pauls movement... i listened to ron paul and left the lp of 12 yrs to help the revolution,sounds like you did nothing if you are not a registered gop member other then post on forums like your the lp king or queen or something , the lp/cp blew it by not jumping back into the gop the party you left in the first place,sounds like you you were on the sidelines if you are not a member of the gop at this moment..

Yea? How are you an activist? You're not a member of the LP now. What did you do when you were a member? I know quite a few people that were delegates through the years, participated locally, and worked towards liberty aside from talking about it, unlike you. You're spewing complete and total bullshit because I know you've never done anything significant for the LP. Stop lying to try and prove a point.

xtravar
09-12-2008, 03:36 PM
They could attempt to do something, anything to salvage the new support they have, instead they do nothing.

Do I really expect that Barr will get the boot? Nope.

Do I want them to know that they effed up big-time by choosing Barr? Yep.

What should I do? Send them an FTD "I'm sad" boquet?

So then what's the problem? What would it take for you to be content short of dumping Barr?

Imagine being in their shoes. They're people just like you and I, and they're fighting the good fight just like us. The Barr campaign may deserve the harassment, but what would you do if you were the communications director of a small third party receiving tons of angry email from people who appear to be inconsolable about something you can't really change?

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 03:37 PM
I second this. Amy once told me in a PM exchange that she won't join the LP because some of the "radical" views of the radical caucus.

So she was never a member. But this is just my neutral input to the discussion :D

I mean, it's completely ridiculous. They want to be taken seriously but lie out of their ass to try and prove a point or get support on their side. It's hypocritical.

Not only that, if she understood anything about libertarianism it's that you don't have to agree with everyone on everything. It's about liberty. She's trying to snuff out a liberty candidate because "she doesn't like him" even though she's never contributed a DIME to the cause.

I'm not fond of people like that.

dannno
09-12-2008, 03:38 PM
Uhhh, you guys seem to be missing the point that there were a shitload of people right about to come on board with the LP and now they aren't.

So you guys can have your little exclusive club if you want, just realize it's probably not going anywhere anytime soon cause Bob Barr screwed up.

We like the principles, but as mentioned on the thread the people in control of the party are there to keep the party down.

RockEnds
09-12-2008, 03:38 PM
Well, you have to realize the party is just that...a party. You don't have to be associated with any party, but if you claim to be affiliated and want to have some kind of influence you should be trying to support your party. Why the hell should the republican party care about what you think? Start your own party if you want people that aren't affiliated to try and dictate what you should and shouldn't be doing with your organization. They aren't required to do anything for you. It works both ways, bud. Just because you think your opinion is righteous doesn't make it so. I imagine you have yet to reach the real world, but people don't head just because you say so. You want to have a say in an organization? Join them, be active, and contribute; otherwise you're no better than a tv talk show host telling a total stranger how to run their life. If you were a contributing member to the party and they started using funds you provided to take the party in a different direction that contradicts the platform I'd say you'd have the right to be pissed....but if you aren't doing jack squat for them why does your opinion matter and why should they care? That's socialism....for the good of the community as a whole. They aren't obligated.

The LP claims they ran Barr to attract more votes. Libertarian-leaning voters are sending a petition to the LP. If the LP doesn't give damn what Libertarian-leaning voters think, they are welcome to ignore it. Apparently, they are. If you don't like the petition, don't sign it.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 03:40 PM
Grandstanding? Barr is the one running for president now and he has been put in a defensive position by the CFL.

Personally, I wish Paul did more grandstanding when he ran, like the book reading list to Guliani.

Well then vote for Barr and be happy as a clam. Barr did it to himself, he had all the time in the world to turn down the offer and make it known why, his manager or whomever didn't have to write that blog post about Paul being a thief and a sham, his other guy didn't have to write some asinine emails attempting to both insult and justify Barr's actions.

What the hell else do you want? I think Barr's a sleaze, I don't think Paul's a sleaze, those are my opinions. I'm not voting for either one of them but I wish I could be voting for the Libertarian candidate. I can't do that now and I'm letting some people know why. I'm very disappointed. So what's it to you? If you haven't convinced me that I'm wrong by now, you probably aren't going to. I'm certainly not trying to get you to agree with me and recognize that you've made some valid points.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 03:41 PM
The LP claims they ran Barr to attract more votes. Libertarian-leaning voters are sending a petition to the LP. If the LP doesn't give damn what Libertarian-leaning voters think, they are welcome to ignore it. Apparently, they are. If you don't like the petition, don't sign it.

You're either libertarian, or you're not, there's no "libertarian-leaning" in my vocabulary.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 03:41 PM
Uhhh, you guys seem to be missing the point that there were a shitload of people right about to come on board with the LP and now they aren't.

So you guys can have your little exclusive club if you want, just realize it's probably not going anywhere anytime soon cause Bob Barr screwed up.

We like the principles, but as mentioned on the thread the people in control of the party are there to keep the party down.

Right on.

speciallyblend
09-12-2008, 03:41 PM
Yea? How are you an activist? You're not a member of the LP now. What did you do when you were a member? I know quite a few people that were delegates through the years, participated locally, and worked towards liberty aside from talking about it, unlike you. You're spewing complete and total bullshit because I know you've never done anything significant for the LP. Stop lying to try and prove a point.

well lets see many years ago i joined the lp when harry browne opened my eyes from their my checking account is none of your business and i have worked in my state of colorado on several intiatives sorry haven'tmet you before in colorado??? if not not my problem, ill takecare of my community work in my counties. i have been a lpvoter and supporter for over 12 yrs until i heard ron paul messageunlike you,i heard what he was trying to do an joined the gop to help ron paul and his message ,sounds like you stood on the sidelines instead of joining the gop like ron paul asked you to. get real and i do not need to explain how and where and when i helped the lp, i helped them everyday until this barr crap, icant sell something that isn't worth selling now and that is barr not worth my time or money anymore ,like isaid you do not need me ,your working colorado for the lp now ,so good luck you do not need me is what im feeling from you;)

i guess you better get busy in colorado since i do nothing for the lp:) (sarcasm)

RockEnds
09-12-2008, 03:43 PM
You're either libertarian, or you're not, there's no "libertarian-leaning" in my vocabulary.

If the LP isn't interested in attracting my vote, Joseph, why do they bother putting their party on my ballot?

xtravar
09-12-2008, 03:45 PM
I think Barr's a sleaze, I don't think Paul's a sleaze, those are my opinions. I'm not voting for either one of them but I wish I could be voting for the Libertarian candidate.

Except Barr's not going to win anyway, so if you really wanted to vote for the Libertarian candidate you could without a guilty conscience. It's absolutely not like a vote for McCain as a "lesser of two evils". It's a protest vote any way you look at it. So if you want to cast your protest vote for the LP, do so. The candidate's already chosen and they can't swap him 50 days before the election.

speciallyblend
09-12-2008, 03:45 PM
Yea? How are you an activist? You're not a member of the LP now. What did you do when you were a member? I know quite a few people that were delegates through the years, participated locally, and worked towards liberty aside from talking about it, unlike you. You're spewing complete and total bullshit because I know you've never done anything significant for the LP. Stop lying to try and prove a point.

sounds like your arguing with the wrong person, my name is kenny not bob barr. barr needs my support , i do not need his;) so i would suggest you call barr with your issues not me;)

amy31416
09-12-2008, 03:45 PM
I second this. Amy once told me in a PM exchange that she won't join the LP because some of the "radical" views of the radical caucus.

So she was never a member. But this is just my neutral input to the discussion :D

Dude.

I've already said that I was never a member, but that I was considering it.

It's also very unlikely that I ever said that. It is, however, likely that I questioned some of the radical views that are sometimes held by a few Libertarians.

Quit making shit up. I just might have it saved somewhere and be able to prove what an egregious liar you are.

speciallyblend
09-12-2008, 03:47 PM
Except Barr's not going to win anyway, so if you really wanted to vote for the Libertarian candidate you could without a guilty conscience. It's absolutely not like a vote for McCain as a "lesser of two evils". It's a protest vote any way you look at it. So if you want to cast your protest vote for the LP, do so. The candidate's already chosen and they can't swap him 50 days before the election.

well sounds good but we have other choices better then barr, baldwin and nader ;) we do not need barr, he needs us and if this is how he wins friends then who needs enemies;)

xtravar
09-12-2008, 03:48 PM
well sounds good but we have other choices better then barr, baldwin and nader ;) we do not need barr, he needs us and if this is how he wins friends then who needs enemies;)

That's fine. If you have other preferable choices on your ballot, then why sit around complaining about Barr? It seems like you all are so disappointed in Barr that you're angry at him, and that's fine, but direct it toward Barr and not the LP.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 03:49 PM
I mean, it's completely ridiculous. They want to be taken seriously but lie out of their ass to try and prove a point or get support on their side. It's hypocritical.

Not only that, if she understood anything about libertarianism it's that you don't have to agree with everyone on everything. It's about liberty. She's trying to snuff out a liberty candidate because "she doesn't like him" even though she's never contributed a DIME to the cause.

I'm not fond of people like that.

1. I never said that I was a member of the Libertarian party. Please quote me.

2. Joseph, if you are familiar with him you'd know, makes things up to annoy the crap out of people. He annoyed the crap out of me for quite a while.

3. Don't even try to guess my motivation on this because you are so fucking far off as to be completely ridiculous.

4. As far as not contributing one DIME to a liberty cause/candidate, you are so, so, so, so soooooooooo wrong as to make a complete idiot of yourself.

ARealConservative
09-12-2008, 03:50 PM
Uhhh, you guys seem to be missing the point that there were a shitload of people right about to come on board with the LP and now they aren't.

So you guys can have your little exclusive club if you want, just realize it's probably not going anywhere anytime soon cause Bob Barr screwed up.

We like the principles, but as mentioned on the thread the people in control of the party are there to keep the party down.

consider this;

Barr was always intriguing because of his appeal to Republicans. These people would be turned off by shows of solidarity with Nader or the Green's.

Consider Nader - Republicans know he is why Gore lost. Barr has been going all over the country attacking McCain and positioning himself as a better choice. The media wants to cast him as the nobody spoiler that helps Obama win.

So yes, it looks horrible blowing off Paul. But just consider for a second that the alternative explanation is reasonable. His campaign was terrified of appearing next to the "Gore Spoiler". They felt it would lose more votes then it would gain hanging out with Ralph Nader in front of the media. They were blindsided by the reaction of the C4L and have been in damage control mode ever since.

speciallyblend
09-12-2008, 03:51 PM
Dude.

I've already said that I was never a member, but that I was considering it.

It's also very unlikely that I ever said that. It is, however, likely that I questioned some of the radical views that are sometimes held by a few Libertarians.

Quit making shit up. I just might have it saved somewhere and be able to prove what an egregious liar you are.

do not worry about joseph ,he is a trouble maker ,hey joseph why have you ignored my wifes thread just search under lchik i would like to hear your bs after that make sure you post your argument right on my wifes thread so everyone knows who you are loud and clear. your on my ignore so i cannot read you but if i see you post there i might take you off to see your bs again but i want everyone in this forum to see your lies so go ahead attack my wife and her thread hold on let me get it for you and bump it

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=154732&highlight=joseph

amy31416
09-12-2008, 03:54 PM
do not worry about joseph ,he is a trouble maker ,hey joseph why have you ignored my wifes thread just search under lchik i would like to hear your bs after that make sure you post your argument right on my wifes thread so everyone knows who you are loud and clear. your on my ignore so i cannot read you but if i see you post there i might take you off to see your bs again but i want everyone in this forum to see your lies so go ahead attack my wife and her thread hold on let me get it for you and bump it

Because he's a very small, petty individual. He won't respond thoughtfully to anything like that.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 03:57 PM
Because he's a very small, petty individual. He won't respond thoughtfully to anything like that.

Or you are because you won't respond to anything I've said. Stop with the insults and put up your guns. You didn't do anything for the LP and they don't care what you have to say if you've never done anything for them.

And, by the way, you can be a LP member and donate to Ron ;) to whoever attacked me for that.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 04:05 PM
Or you are because you won't respond to anything I've said. Stop with the insults and put up your guns. You didn't do anything for the LP and they don't care what you have to say if you've never done anything for them.

And, by the way, you can be a LP member and donate to Ron ;) to whoever attacked me for that.

I already answered you:

1. I had every intention of voting for Barr.

2. I have donated to every politician I've believed in. (Barr never did make the cut, I was voting for him because of the boost the LP would get in ballot access.) I gave RP a lot of money. I've donated to all kinds of various projects that are libertarian in nature. I believe that the LP fits me the best out of all of the parties, despite the fact that I'm a Republican due to Paul.

3. What insults? I've been very civil until you jumped on a lie that JTL decided to interject and YOU made all sorts of assumptions about me.

4. My coming around to the LP a month or so ago is the product of Paul's bid fizzling and coming to grips with who Barr is/was, and you can, if you wish, comb through old posts to see that that's the case. The thread that convinced me to vote for him was started by Kludge if that helps.

5. It's true that I didn't do anything for the LP, but it's not true that I never would have. Can you understand the difference? The more I learn about them, especially in "crisis," the less I like them and the more likely I am to go back to being a registered independent, supporting no party, despite the fact that I am philosophically quite aligned with them.

Do you get it yet?

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 04:11 PM
I already answered you:

1. I had every intention of voting for Barr.

2. I have donated to every politician I've believed in. (Barr never did make the cut, I was voting for him because of the boost the LP would get in ballot access.) I gave RP a lot of money. I've donated to all kinds of various projects that are libertarian in nature. I believe that the LP fits me the best out of all of the parties, despite the fact that I'm a Republican due to Paul.

3. What insults? I've been very civil until you jumped on a lie that JTL decided to interject and YOU made all sorts of assumptions about me.

4. My coming around to the LP a month or so ago is the product of Paul's bid fizzling and coming to grips with who Barr is/was, and you can, if you wish, comb through old posts to see that that's the case. The thread that convinced me to vote for him was started by Kludge if that helps.

5. It's true that I didn't do anything for the LP, but it's not true that I never would have. Can you understand the difference? The more I learn about them, especially in "crisis," the less I like them and the more likely I am to go back to being a registered independent, supporting no party, despite the fact that I am philosophically quite aligned with them.

Do you get it yet?


YOU AREN'T AND NEVER WERE A MEMBER OF THE LP AND NEVER CONTRIBUTED TO THEM. BOTTOM LINE. YOU'VE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE PARTY NOR HAVE YOU HELPED CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CAUSE. Just because you think your opinion of Barr is holier than thou doesn't mean you can usher yourself in and govern the party.

For lack of a better term, FUCK OFF. You're attitude is the exact opposite of what this movement was for. You're a communist trying to sensor people you don't agree with.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 04:17 PM
Dude.

I've already said that I was never a member, but that I was considering it.

It's also very unlikely that I ever said that. It is, however, likely that I questioned some of the radical views that are sometimes held by a few Libertarians.

Quit making shit up. I just might have it saved somewhere and be able to prove what an egregious liar you are.

I made nothing up. Don't insinuate that you are what you are not. I'm neutral here, just calling it how I see it.

personal attack from you. no surprise

amy31416
09-12-2008, 04:18 PM
YOU AREN'T AND NEVER WERE A MEMBER OF THE LP AND NEVER CONTRIBUTED TO THEM. BOTTOM LINE. YOU'VE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE PARTY NOR HAVE YOU HELPED CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CAUSE. Just because you think your opinion of Barr is holier than thou doesn't mean you can usher yourself in and govern the party.

For lack of a better term, FUCK OFF. You're attitude is the exact opposite of what this movement was for. You're a communist trying to sensor people you don't agree with.

Yes indeed. You've got it all correct. I would tell you to fuck off, but I'm feeling like I'm above that for the moment.

Wasn't it you who just said in your prior post to "stop with the insults?" You've called me several names, whereas, I really don't think I've called you any names.

Well, if it's all in caps, it's more poignant, isn't it? I'm certain that you've convinced everyone else in my position that you're right and we should all vote for Barr. Congrats on your debate win, champ.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 04:20 PM
I made nothing up. Don't insinuate that you are what you are not. I'm neutral here, just calling it how I see it.

personal attack from you. no surprise

You're going on ignore. You add absolutely no value to any conversation.

Quote me on it without making something up. I dare you.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 04:20 PM
Yes indeed. You've got it all correct. I would tell you to fuck off, but I'm feeling like I'm above that for the moment.

Wasn't it you who just said in your prior post to "stop with the insults?" You've called me several names, whereas, I really don't think I've called you any names.

Well, if it's all in caps, it's more poignant, isn't it? I'm certain that you've convinced everyone else in my position that you're right and we should all vote for Barr. Congrats on your debate win, champ.

It's in caps because you don't seem to recognize that no matter how many times I've posted it. I haven't called you any names, but if being painfully honest and observant is offensive, perhaps you can try and censor me too. You might want to double check what you are fighting for.

ShowMeLiberty
09-12-2008, 04:23 PM
YOU AREN'T AND NEVER WERE A MEMBER OF THE LP AND NEVER CONTRIBUTED TO THEM. BOTTOM LINE. YOU'VE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE PARTY NOR HAVE YOU HELPED CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CAUSE. Just because you think your opinion of Barr is holier than thou doesn't mean you can usher yourself in and govern the party.

For lack of a better term, FUCK OFF. You're attitude is the exact opposite of what this movement was for. You're a communist trying to sensor people you don't agree with.

Attitudes like this are exactly why the LP is never going anywhere. Just saying. :rolleyes:

moostraks
09-12-2008, 04:24 PM
It's in caps because you don't seem to recognize that no matter how many times I've posted it. I haven't called you any names, but if being painfully honest and observant is offensive, perhaps you can try and censor me too. You might want to double check what you are fighting for.

Do you read what you type? You called her a communist...Reread...

RockEnds
09-12-2008, 04:26 PM
YOU AREN'T AND NEVER WERE A MEMBER OF THE LP AND NEVER CONTRIBUTED TO THEM. BOTTOM LINE. YOU'VE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE PARTY NOR HAVE YOU HELPED CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CAUSE. Just because you think your opinion of Barr is holier than thou doesn't mean you can usher yourself in and govern the party.

For lack of a better term, FUCK OFF. You're attitude is the exact opposite of what this movement was for. You're a communist trying to sensor people you don't agree with.

So, is telling people to F* off part of the Libertarian platform this year?

Andrew-Austin
09-12-2008, 04:29 PM
Keep signing the petition everyone!

Why? So you can denounce the next candidate the libertarian party comes up with after Barr?

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 04:30 PM
Do you read what you type? You called her a communist...Reread...

That's not an insult it's an observation. You are for freedom until someone says something you disagree with. You then try to make absurd claims such as "This is why the LP is going nowhere" or "this is part of the LP platform?" out of pure ignorance, as to prove a point or illustrate something based on the opinion of one person. It's ignorant, hypocritical, and contrary to the idea of freedom. You know very well the above isn't true and I don't take kindly to people manipulating and twisting things to fit their warped idea of what is and isn't.

Many of you go around trying to censor others in the name of freedom. It's DISGUSTING. I'm sick of it. If I need to tell you to get lost, get out of my business, and stop trying to interfere with my party and candidate, I will. Stop trying to censor viewpoints you don't agree with and stop doing it in the name of freedom. You can say whatever you want, but I WILL call you on it and I WILL let it be known when you are wrong.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 04:33 PM
YOU AREN'T AND NEVER WERE A MEMBER OF THE LP AND NEVER CONTRIBUTED TO THEM. BOTTOM LINE. YOU'VE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE PARTY NOR HAVE YOU HELPED CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CAUSE. Just because you think your opinion of Barr is holier than thou doesn't mean you can usher yourself in and govern the party.

For lack of a better term, FUCK OFF. You're attitude is the exact opposite of what this movement was for. You're a communist trying to sensor people you don't agree with.


It's in caps because you don't seem to recognize that no matter how many times I've posted it. I haven't called you any names, but if being painfully honest and observant is offensive, perhaps you can try and censor me too. You might want to double check what you are fighting for.

Please see above post for an example of you calling me a name.

I'm not trying to censor anyone. As any mod can attest to, I don't think I've ever reported anyone for calling me a name.

You might want to double check that freedom means having the freedom to criticize too, buddy.

Let's go with your first sentence: you state that you posted in caps because I fail to recognize that I'm not a member of the LP, that I haven't directly donated to them and am not actively promoting them?

Wrong. I fully realize who I am, what I've done, what I can do and what I wanted to do.

Now your second sentiment about my "holier than thou" opinion of Barr.

Wrong again, I fully understand what ARC's objections were, and I read the things he had to say. I'm wasn't swayed by his arguments. That's all. I'm not trying to govern the party, I'm trying to have a party to vote for and what you fail to realize is that I can and will look more critically at a party that I'm likely to join, for some obvious reasons. I held my nose to become a Republican for Paul.

Now, the second part. That is just, quite simply, your angry, biased opinion. I'm not a communist and never have been, I'm also obviously not trying to "sensor" (sic) anyone. I didn't say STFU TROLL, FUCKOFF U FASCIST, did I?

No, but you essentially did. Now check yourself.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 04:33 PM
You're going on ignore. You add absolutely no value to any conversation.

Quote me on it without making something up. I dare you.

I deleted your pms :) And I paraphrased that very accurately.

LittleLightShining
09-12-2008, 04:39 PM
YOU AREN'T AND NEVER WERE A MEMBER OF THE LP AND NEVER CONTRIBUTED TO THEM. BOTTOM LINE. YOU'VE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE PARTY NOR HAVE YOU HELPED CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CAUSE. Just because you think your opinion of Barr is holier than thou doesn't mean you can usher yourself in and govern the party.

For lack of a better term, FUCK OFF. You're attitude is the exact opposite of what this movement was for. You're a communist trying to sensor people you don't agree with.:rolleyes:

Wow.

xtravar
09-12-2008, 04:39 PM
I can only assume by the lack of response to my level-headed posts that the anti-Barr/LP crowd just likes trolling.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 04:44 PM
Please see above post for an example of you calling me a name.

I'm not trying to censor anyone. As any mod can attest to, I don't think I've ever reported anyone for calling me a name.

You might want to double check that freedom means having the freedom to criticize too, buddy.

Let's go with your first sentence: you state that you posted in caps because I fail to recognize that I'm not a member of the LP, that I haven't directly donated to them and am not actively promoting them?

Wrong. I fully realize who I am, what I've done, what I can do and what I wanted to do.

Now your second sentiment about my "holier than thou" opinion of Barr.

Wrong again, I fully understand what ARC's objections were, and I read the things he had to say. I'm wasn't swayed by his arguments. That's all. I'm not trying to govern the party, I'm trying to have a party to vote for and what you fail to realize is that I can and will look more critically at a party that I'm likely to join, for some obvious reasons. I held my nose to become a Republican for Paul.

Now, the second part. That is just, quite simply, your angry, biased opinion. I'm not a communist and never have been, I'm also obviously not trying to "sensor" (sic) anyone. I didn't say STFU TROLL, FUCKOFF U FASCIST, did I?

No, but you essentially did. Now check yourself.

You don't have the freedom to take over another party that you have no affiliation with. You don't have the right to take Barr off the ticket because you don't agree with him when he's done nothing wrong. You don't have the freedom of slander. You continually lie about candidates to prove a point and it's sickening.

Finally, communist is not a "name." That's what you are acting like...it's a fair assessment and I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but I don't take kindly to authoritarian types like yourself. And, finally, you are trying to censor Bob. You haven't a THING to do with the party, and, once again, you think your opinion gives you the merit to call for his resignation. You aren't involved with them in any way, shape, or form, so as far as I'm concerned it's none of your business to begin with. And, you are a troll. You post these nonsensical threads in the wrong part of the forum and it's all spam. Not only that, but you are violating forum rules in many ways. So have I, by saying, "Fuck off," but it's a difficult thing to control when there are socialist trolls here who are allowed to violate forum rules because half the mods are baldwin squatters.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 04:46 PM
I can only assume by the lack of response to my level-headed posts that the anti-Barr/LP crowd just likes trolling.

I've tried level headed posts in the past and you just get called a neocon, etc etc. Some of these people are really unreasonable, and it's come to the point where you just have to yell "CUT IT OUTTTT!"

Oh, and littleshining, why don't you elaborate as to fueling drama, eh? If you have anything constructive to post please do so.

moostraks
09-12-2008, 04:49 PM
That's not an insult it's an observation. You are for freedom until someone says something you disagree with. You then try to make absurd claims such as "This is why the LP is going nowhere" or "this is part of the LP platform?" out of pure ignorance, as to prove a point or illustrate something based on the opinion of one person. It's ignorant, hypocritical, and contrary to the idea of freedom. You know very well the above isn't true and I don't take kindly to people manipulating and twisting things to fit their warped idea of what is and isn't.

Many of you go around trying to censor others in the name of freedom. It's DISGUSTING. I'm sick of it. If I need to tell you to get lost, get out of my business, and stop trying to interfere with my party and candidate, I will. Stop trying to censor viewpoints you don't agree with and stop doing it in the name of freedom. You can say whatever you want, but I WILL call you on it and I WILL let it be known when you are wrong.

Generalize much...Sit back,take a breath, then type. You are fighting everyone visciously. I merely pointed out you said you weren't name calling and yet you think you can slap labels on someone and it is a-ok. Stop whining about not getting free speech you have been on RON PAUL forums pushing for BARR. We get it you love BARR he is your guy....Go to his forum(if he has one) and party down with his wonderful supporters that value his view of freedom. Stop flaming and name calling everyone who disagrees with you. This is RON PAULS forum if you cannot understand we would support his side of a story then get a clue...

You are in RON PAULS grassroots forum. If you want to shill for Barr here than go to other presidential candidates. That is if he still is a candidate....

Knightskye
09-12-2008, 04:51 PM
Can we have a screenshot? (With the OP's e-mail address redacted, maybe?)

I'm not buying it.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 04:54 PM
You don't have the freedom to take over another party that you have no affiliation with. You don't have the right to take Barr off the ticket because you don't agree with him when he's done nothing wrong. You don't have the freedom of slander. You continually lie about candidates to prove a point and it's sickening.

Finally, communist is not a "name." That's what you are acting like...it's a fair assessment and I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but I don't take kindly to authoritarian types like yourself. And, finally, you are trying to censor Bob. You haven't a THING to do with the party, and, once again, you think your opinion gives you the merit to call for his resignation. You aren't involved with them in any way, shape, or form, so as far as I'm concerned it's none of your business to begin with. And, you are a troll. You post these nonsensical threads in the wrong part of the forum and it's all spam. Not only that, but you are violating forum rules in many ways. So have I, by saying, "Fuck off," but it's a difficult thing to control when there are socialist trolls here who are allowed to violate forum rules because half the mods are baldwin squatters.

Oyy, of course I don't have the right to take Barr off the ticket. I never implied that I did. What did I say that is libel (not slander)? Why are you making up stuff about me continually lying about candidates to prove a point?

Why don't you take a look at Kludge's thread and see that I did, in fact, come around to voting for Barr instead of making strange things up?

If you meant "communist" as anything but an ad hominem attack, you just might want to look up the definition of communist. Speaking of those who would like to squelch dissention and limit speech, aren't you attempting to do just that my telling me it's none of my business and that I have, essentially, no right to an opinion? Yes, you are.

If I've broken any forum rules, I am not aware of it. Please point out all instances. Thank you.

And, I haven't noticed any Baldwin-shilling mods either, post your proof.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 04:55 PM
Generalize much...Sit back,take a breath, then type. You are fighting everyone visciously. I merely pointed out you said you weren't name calling and yet you think you can slap labels on someone and it is a-ok. Stop whining about not getting free speech you have been on RON PAUL forums pushing for BARR. We get it you love BARR he is your guy....Go to his forum(if he has one) and party down with his wonderful supporters that value his view of freedom. Stop flaming and name calling everyone who disagrees with you. This is RON PAULS forum if you cannot understand we would support his side of a story then get a clue...

You are in RON PAULS grassroots forum. If you want to shill for Barr here than go to other presidential candidates. That is if he still is a candidate....

First and foremost, a derogatory remark would be a name. The use of the word "communist" was a way to describe her nature here. Second, I may not even vote for Barr; I just don't appreciate the bad rap he's been given and the nonsensical garbage many of you spew out. You try to censor him because you don't agree with him, though many of you have no affiliation with the party that nominated him. You unfairly, unjustly slander him and it's wrong. Finally, this IS a Ron Paul grassroots forum, so why are the mods allowing these thread's creation? I simply respond to the ridiculous threads; I don't create them, and I never have.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 04:55 PM
Can we have a screenshot? (With the OP's e-mail address redacted, maybe?)

I'm not buying it.

Yeah, sure. I'll have to do some sort of photoshop to get my address out.

Actually, if you have an email address, I can do that for you, my correspondence is like 12 emails. It'd be easier to forward it. Let me know.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 04:55 PM
Oyy, of course I don't have the right to take Barr off the ticket. I never implied that I did. What did I say that is libel (not slander)? Why are you making up stuff about me continually lying about candidates to prove a point?

Why don't you take a look at Kludge's thread and see that I did, in fact, come around to voting for Barr instead of making strange things up?

If you meant "communist" as anything but an ad hominem attack, you just might want to look up the definition of communist. Speaking of those who would like to squelch dissention and limit speech, aren't you attempting to do just that my telling me it's none of my business and that I have, essentially, no right to an opinion? Yes, you are.

If I've broken any forum rules, I am not aware of it. Please point out all instances. Thank you.

And, I haven't noticed any Baldwin-shilling mods either, post your proof.

What right do you have to expect something of a PRIVATE organization that you're not even a member of?

LittleLightShining
09-12-2008, 04:56 PM
You don't have the freedom to take over another party that you have no affiliation with. You don't have the right to take Barr off the ticket because you don't agree with him when he's done nothing wrong. You don't have the freedom of slander. You continually lie about candidates to prove a point and it's sickening.

Finally, communist is not a "name." That's what you are acting like...it's a fair assessment and I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but I don't take kindly to authoritarian types like yourself. And, finally, you are trying to censor Bob. You haven't a THING to do with the party, and, once again, you think your opinion gives you the merit to call for his resignation. You aren't involved with them in any way, shape, or form, so as far as I'm concerned it's none of your business to begin with. And, you are a troll. You post these nonsensical threads in the wrong part of the forum and it's all spam. Not only that, but you are violating forum rules in many ways. So have I, by saying, "Fuck off," but it's a difficult thing to control when there are socialist trolls here who are allowed to violate forum rules because half the mods are baldwin squatters.
You are so defensive you haven't even read anything she's written. You want Barr to be the heir apparent and you are the one who is being intolerant and doing exactly what you accuse amy of doing. Your attitude, as has been mentioned before, is certainly more of a turnoff to the Libertarian Party than amy (and others) asking questions and expecting thoughtful responses.

constituent
09-12-2008, 04:59 PM
You're a communist trying to sensor people you don't agree with.

f*n christ, it's come to this?

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 05:00 PM
Oyy, of course I don't have the right to take Barr off the ticket. I never implied that I did. What did I say that is libel (not slander)? Why are you making up stuff about me continually lying about candidates to prove a point?

Why don't you take a look at Kludge's thread and see that I did, in fact, come around to voting for Barr instead of making strange things up?

If you meant "communist" as anything but an ad hominem attack, you just might want to look up the definition of communist. Speaking of those who would like to squelch dissention and limit speech, aren't you attempting to do just that my telling me it's none of my business and that I have, essentially, no right to an opinion? Yes, you are.

If I've broken any forum rules, I am not aware of it. Please point out all instances. Thank you.

And, I haven't noticed any Baldwin-shilling mods either, post your proof.

You might want to reread your posts. You have a bad habit of bad mouthing Bob and, often times, have never posted anything to support your opinion. You and Menthol Patch have said many untrue things about Mr. Barr and I have let it slide many times. There are at least 10 threads you two have created, in the wrong section of the forum, that contradict forum rules. It is not my prerogative to go and dig through your posts; I'm simply saying cut the nonsense. I'm sick of coming to the grassroots forum to see it spammed with this garbage.

Communist - 3. a person who is regarded as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes.

Censorship, perhaps? Again, I don't see where you have any vested interest in the LP. Communists tend to think they have a right to things that don't involve them :rolleyes:


What right do you have to expect something of a PRIVATE organization that you're not even a member of?

Exactly what I've been saying.

constituent
09-12-2008, 05:00 PM
So, is telling people to F* off part of the Libertarian platform this year?

every year.

it's an elitist thing.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 05:02 PM
You are so defensive you haven't even read anything she's written. You want Barr to be the heir apparent and you are the one who is being intolerant and doing exactly what you accuse amy of doing. Your attitude, as has been mentioned before, is certainly more of a turnoff to the Libertarian Party than amy (and others) asking questions and expecting thoughtful responses.

False. That's your opinion. If you read my other post, you'll notice I've said I may not vote for Barr. I just don't appreciate the slander, nonsense, and spam.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 05:02 PM
every year.

it's an elitist thing.

Or, rather than dance around the issue, you can re-read my previous posts. Thank you.

idiom
09-12-2008, 05:03 PM
I always thought Censering people is way more fun than censoring them. Sensoring them is okay too... if they are hot and female.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 05:11 PM
You might want to reread your posts. You have a bad habit of bad mouthing Bob and, often times, have never posted anything to support your opinion. You and Menthol Patch have said many untrue things about Mr. Barr and I have let it slide many times. There are at least 10 threads you two have created, in the wrong section of the forum, that contradict forum rules. It is not my prerogative to go and dig through your posts; I'm simply saying cut the nonsense. I'm sick of coming to the grassroots forum to see it spammed with this garbage.

Communist - 3. a person who is regarded as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes.

Censorship, perhaps? Again, I don't see where you have any vested interest in the LP. Communists tend to think they have a right to things that don't involve them :rolleyes:



Exactly what I've been saying.

Quote me if you're going to make accusations. Don't include any violations that Menthol Patch may have made when you're arguing with me. If your accusation that I'm breaking forum rules willy-nilly only includes this one thread that should have gone into "off topic" rather than grassroots central, you really don't have much of a case. Your baseless accusations make you look more foolish, quite frankly.

I don't happen to want to vote for Nader, for Christ's sake, if I were a Commie, I'd be thrilled to vote for him. Can you understand that? I want to be able to vote for the libertarian candidate.

Silly me for having an opinion and expressing it, I didn't realize I was violating your rights. You're right, I have absolutely no right to criticize your precious libertarian party because I haven't given them any money. How much criticism allowance would $50 buy me? Guess I can't criticize the Dems either because I've never sent them one damned DIME either. :rolleyes:

LittleLightShining
09-12-2008, 05:13 PM
False. That's your opinion. If you read my other post, you'll notice I've said I may not vote for Barr. I just don't appreciate the slander, nonsense, and spam.I saw none of that in this thread, except from you, the dude who's got acptulsa on his ignore list :rolleyes: and some guy who calls himself a conservative.

The whole argument here is ridiculous. Here you have a voter, researching parties and candidates, working hard and spending money on the candidates she believes in finally coming to the LP. So what if she isn't active or dues-paying yet? Is this how the LP welcomes new folks? She has a legitimate question and sends an email asking. Is it so wrong to expect a thoughtful response? Or they could have sent a generic "Thank you for contacting the LP" email in return. They sent back neither. Her description of her correspondence as bizarre is about as accurate as could be.

Between Barr's actions, the email from LP HQ and your attitude I'm certainly feeling repelled by the LP. At least I know that state and local parties in Vermont are better than national and I won't hold any of that against the VT LP.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 05:16 PM
Amy is dodging my questions. Why? Please, just answer

Amy,

What right do you have to expect something of a PRIVATE organization that you're not even a member of?

amy31416
09-12-2008, 05:17 PM
I saw none of that in this thread, except from you, the dude who's got acptulsa on his ignore list :rolleyes: and some guy who calls himself a conservative.

The whole argument here is ridiculous. Here you have a voter, researching parties and candidates, working hard and spending money on the candidates she believes in finally coming to the LP. So what if she isn't active or dues-paying yet? Is this how the LP welcomes new folks? She has a legitimate question and sends an email asking. Is it so wrong to expect a thoughtful response? Or they could have sent a generic "Thank you for contacting the LP" email in return. They sent back neither. Her description of her correspondence as bizarre is about as accurate as could be.

Between Barr's actions, the email from LP HQ and your attitude I'm certainly feeling repelled by the LP. At least I know that state and local parties in Vermont are better than national and I won't hold any of that against the VT LP.

Thanks. I'm still going to check out the local LP here as well. Perhaps the lesson learned here is that the LP is in some trouble and could be best helped by getting involved locally.

Menthol Patch
09-12-2008, 05:18 PM
Amy is dodging my questions. Why? Please, just answer

Amy,

What right do you have to expect something of a PRIVATE organization that you're not even a member of?

It doesn't matter if she is a member of not.

Anyone has the right to demand and expect something of a private organization!

The organization simply does not have to do it.

Menthol Patch
09-12-2008, 05:19 PM
Joseph,

I'm not a current member of the LP and I will continue to demand that Bob Barr is removed.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 05:19 PM
It doesn't matter if she is a member of not.

Anyone has the right to demand and expect something of a private organization!

The organization simply does not have to do it.

I can EXPECT stuff from any private organization? This violates property rights.

Menthol Patch
09-12-2008, 05:21 PM
It seems Joseph here does not believe in freedom of speech.

Menthol Patch
09-12-2008, 05:21 PM
I can EXPECT stuff from any private organization? This violates property rights.

No it does not.

You can expect it. They simply might not do what you say.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 05:22 PM
It seems Joseph here does not believe in freedom of speech.

You said that it's ok to expect things from PRIVATE organizations. That's not a right ;)

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 05:22 PM
No it does not.

You can expect it. They simply might not do what you say.

Well, we know where Menthol stands now :rolleyes:


And, Amy, you can criticize anyone you want as long as it's not slander (which you have been doing) but you can't expect anything from a private organization. You can't go and try to take control of another organization because you don't agree....an organization you have no vested interest or part in...that's called communism.


It seems Joseph here does not believe in freedom of speech.

Slander and defamation is not freedom of speech. That goes back to property rights. You are affecting someone else's reputation...their property. You don't have the right to defame their name. You, in particular, have said many, many untrue things about Bob.

Menthol Patch
09-12-2008, 05:27 PM
Well, we know where Menthol stands now :rolleyes:

And, Amy, you can criticize anyone you want as long as it's not slander (which you have been doing) but you can't expect anything from a private organization. You can't go and try to take control of another organization because you don't agree....an organization you have no vested interest or part in...that's called communism.


Slander and defamation is not freedom of speech. That goes back to property rights. You are affecting someone else's reputation...their property. You don't have the right to defame their name.

We have been saying nothing but the truth.

Menthol Patch
09-12-2008, 05:28 PM
Hey Amy,

I think the Bob Barr supporters are getting upset because their candidate is about to be removed.

moostraks
09-12-2008, 05:28 PM
First and foremost, a derogatory remark would be a name. The use of the word "communist" was a way to describe her nature here. Second, I may not even vote for Barr; I just don't appreciate the bad rap he's been given and the nonsensical garbage many of you spew out. You try to censor him because you don't agree with him, though many of you have no affiliation with the party that nominated him. You unfairly, unjustly slander him and it's wrong. Finally, this IS a Ron Paul grassroots forum, so why are the mods allowing these thread's creation? I simply respond to the ridiculous threads; I don't create them, and I never have.

Uh...okay since Barr is an option for many pursuing liberty agenda by following through voting third party, information that pertains to shenanigans in other parties is fair game. Constantly coming on to tell everyone to lay off your man and how great what Barr did is shilling. It is not offering any credible information that would further grassroots and belongs in the other candidates forum.If you have anything that furthers the conversation rather than name calling then start a thread. If we want to hear it we will read it. I am tired of hearing you bash every thread that is not pro-Barr.

Btw communist per wiki:Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general.[1][2][3] It is usually considered to be a branch of socialism, a broad group of social and political ideologies, which draws on the various political and intellectual movements with origins in the work of theorists of the Industrial Revolution and the French Revolution.

Pejorative:A disparaging, belittling, or derogatory word or expression; Disparaging, belittling or derogatory
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pejorative

Calling her a communist was an insulting remark used as a pejorative expression (see above)not a description of her tactics because as of yet Amy has not created a socioeconomic faction on this webboard.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 05:29 PM
Hey Amy,

I think the Bob Barr supporters are getting upset because their candidate is about to be removed.

and when they look to verify how many petitioners are actual members... ;)

Menthol Patch
09-12-2008, 05:32 PM
and when they look to verify how many petitioners are actual members... ;)

Thank you very much for your responses. It continues to bump up these threads.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 05:32 PM
Uh...okay since Barr is an option for many pursuing liberty agenda by following through voting third party, information that pertains to shenanigans in other parties is fair game. Constantly coming on to tell everyone to lay off your man and how great what Barr did is shilling. It is not offering any credible information that would further grassroots and belongs in the other candidates forum.If you have anything that furthers the conversation rather than name calling then start a thread. If we want to hear it we will read it. I am tired of hearing you bash every thread that is not pro-Barr.

Btw communist per wiki:Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general.[1][2][3] It is usually considered to be a branch of socialism, a broad group of social and political ideologies, which draws on the various political and intellectual movements with origins in the work of theorists of the Industrial Revolution and the French Revolution.

Pejorative:A disparaging, belittling, or derogatory word or expression; Disparaging, belittling or derogatory
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pejorative

Calling her a communist was an insulting remark used as a pejorative expression (see above)not a description of her tactics because as of yet Amy has not created a socioeconomic faction on this webboard.

Your first paragraph makes no sense whatsoever. If you do not have any vested interest or ownership to "property" in the LP you are not entitled to manipulate any of that property....you have no right to it. It's a private organization, bud.

Finally, the word communist is not belittling. Since it's so "belittling" and, in your eyes, similar to a "curse" word, what should we call the Communist Manifesto? The Manifesto of Group Work for the Common Good? Stop with this "politically" correct nonsense. Not everything is an insult. I posted an official definition with reasoning. Censorship and thinking you have a right to someone else's property is communism. It pertains to one of the pillars in communism.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 05:34 PM
And, Amy, you can criticize anyone you want as long as it's not slander (which you have been doing) but you can't expect anything from a private organization. You can't go and try to take control of another organization because you don't agree....an organization you have no vested interest or part in...that's called communism.


Once again, it's libel, and please quote me. I can criticize any damned thing I want, even Mother Freakin' Teresa if I so choose.

You are not in a position to determine what my vested interests are, and I am not trying to take control, I am trying to make some difference for the better, in my opinion. Obviously you disagree. Me starting a petition against Wal-Mart about one of their practices or even one of their employees is not me attempting to "take over" the organization.

Can you understand the difference and how ridiculous your "communist" argument is? If I attempting to be the LP candidate you may have a slight point, but even then it's pretty weak.

constituent
09-12-2008, 05:39 PM
Once again, it's libel, and please quote me. I can criticize any damned thing I want, even Mother Freakin' Teresa if I so choose.


hey now.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 05:41 PM
Once again, it's libel, and please quote me. I can criticize any damned thing I want, even Mother Freakin' Teresa if I so choose.

You are not in a position to determine what my vested interests are, and I am not trying to take control, I am trying to make some difference for the better, in my opinion. Obviously you disagree. Me starting a petition against Wal-Mart about one of their practices or even one of their employees is not me attempting to "take over" the organization.

Can you understand the difference and how ridiculous your "communist" argument is? If I attempting to be the LP candidate you may have a slight point, but even then it's pretty weak.

This entire post didn't make any sense. Little girl, did you even take the time to read my previous post?

In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel, slander, and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image.

You've done plenty of that.

Hitler wanted to make a difference, for the better, but he didn't respect property rights. If you don't have any ownership in the "property," you're opinion doesn't mean jack-squat, and that's a FACT. You have nothing to do with the LP or Walmart, and the idea that you can impose your will on them is laughable.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 05:44 PM
This entire post didn't make any sense. Little girl, did you even take the time to read my previous post?

In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel, slander, and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image.

You've done plenty of that.

Hitler wanted to make a difference, for the better, but he didn't respect property rights. If you don't have any ownership in the "property," you're opinion doesn't mean jack-squat, and that's a FACT.

Yes, I did. Did you comprehend anything I just said?

Like I said, quote me. Please. Back up the things you've accused me of.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 05:47 PM
Why won't Amy answer this simple question??

Amy, are you a card carrying member of the LP? UNBELIEVABLE! What do you have to fear, Amy? My question is *very* relevant to the discussion at hand.

AMY IS DODGING

Knightskye
09-12-2008, 05:49 PM
Yeah, sure. I'll have to do some sort of photoshop to get my address out.

Actually, if you have an email address, I can do that for you, my correspondence is like 12 emails. It'd be easier to forward it. Let me know.

Do you have a "Print Screen" button? You could just go to the e-mail, click that, and then copy it into MS Paint.

But I sent a PM nonetheless.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 05:50 PM
Yes, I did. Did you comprehend anything I just said?

Like I said, quote me. Please. Back up the things you've accused me of.

Amy, I'm not playing games with you, hun. I've read your many posts, and you know what you've written.

And, once again, If you don't have any ownership in the "property," you're opinion doesn't mean jack-squat, and that's a FACT. You have nothing to do with the LP or Walmart, and the idea that you can impose your will on them is laughable. Can you explain to me why you think you should have any say on something that is not your property in any way shape or form?

amy31416
09-12-2008, 05:53 PM
Do you have a "Print Screen" button? You could just go to the e-mail, click that, and then copy it into MS Paint.

But I sent a PM nonetheless.

Just sent it to you. Let me know if it comes through. I wouldn't know how to capture the entire correspondence reasonably well given its length.

moostraks
09-12-2008, 05:54 PM
Your first paragraph makes no sense whatsoever. If you do not have any vested interest or ownership to "property" in the LP you are not entitled to manipulate any of that property....you have no right to it. It's a private organization, bud.

Finally, the word communist is not belittling. Since it's so "belittling" and, in your eyes, similar to a "curse" word, what should we call the Communist Manifesto? The Manifesto of Group Work for the Common Good? Stop with this "politically" correct nonsense. Not everything is an insult. I posted an official definition with reasoning. Censorship and thinking you have a right to someone else's property is communism. It pertains to one of the pillars in communism.


Bud:She can relay information regarding an incidence which portrays to potential voters the level of irrational, immature individuals who are maintaining the communications department of one of the parties running for office of HER country. (Free Speech)She can also request them to do anything she chooses to request of them. What they choose to do after the fact is then their choice. It is not a matter of force to request a matter be attended, as she is not holding a gun or forcing the matter. She is however holding a vote and if they really wanted to receive that vote they would treat someone making an inquiry with respect and maturity especially as is regarding the office of the presidency of the United States.

FWIW the only person seeking to silence people is you. We have asked you to stop bathering unless you have something of value to add. Your shilling is getting monotonous and your personal attacks and then whining about abuse and free speech is wearing thin.

BTW sweetie, you knew you were using the term communist as a pejorative but feel free to see it any way you like. I can call Barr a libertarian too but that doesn't really mean he is one....:D

amy31416
09-12-2008, 05:55 PM
Amy, I'm not playing games with you, hun. I've read your many posts, and you know what you've written.

And, once again, If you don't have any ownership in the "property," you're opinion doesn't mean jack-squat, and that's a FACT. You have nothing to do with the LP or Walmart, and the idea that you can impose your will on them is laughable. Can you explain to me why you think you should have any say on something that is not your property in any way shape or form?

Quote it or it's likely BS.

The presidential elections are the business of ALL Americans. And I will criticize any party any time I want to. Even if I am not registered and don't vote.

Argue that.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 06:01 PM
Amy,

Why are you ignoring my relevant question that relates to this thread? Are you a card carrying member of the LP? She must be afraid to answer. Ihate to harp on like this, but I really am wondering why she can't answer this SIMPLE question.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 06:02 PM
Bud:She can relay information regarding an incidence which portrays to potential voters the level of irrational, immature individuals who are maintaining the communications department of one of the parties running for office of HER country. (Free Speech)She can also request them to do anything she chooses to request of them. What they choose to do after the fact is then their choice. It is not a matter of force to request a matter be attended, as she is not holding a gun or forcing the matter. She is however holding a vote and if they really wanted to receive that vote they would treat someone making an inquiry with respect and maturity especially as is regarding the office of the presidency of the United States.

FWIW the only person seeking to silence people is you. We have asked you to stop bathering unless you have something of value to add. Your shilling is getting monotonous and your personal attacks and then whining about abuse and free speech is wearing thin.

BTW sweetie, you knew you were using the term communist as a pejorative but feel free to see it any way you like. I can call Barr a libertarian too but that doesn't really mean he is one....:D

First and foremost, your first sentence does not make any sense. Can you construct one without trying to sound smart? ;)

Defamation is not protected speech. This is a fact.

And, no. What's wearing thin is the spam and garbage threads in the Grassroots forum. Regardless, all you've managed to do is create drama. Now, are you going to contribute anything useful or will you continue to argue opinion?

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 06:06 PM
Quote it or it's likely BS.

The presidential elections are the business of ALL Americans. And I will criticize any party any time I want to. Even if I am not registered and don't vote.

Argue that.

Defamation is not the same as criticism.

The knowledge and right to the operations of a private organization is not the business of all Americans. The LP is a private organization. Until Bob is president his business is none of your business and the LP is none of your business unless you are part of that private organization. Do you have any property there? No? Then you have no business.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 06:13 PM
Defamation is not the same as criticism.

The knowledge and right to the operations of a private organization is not the business of all Americans. The LP is a private organization. Until Bob is president his business is none of your business and the LP is none of your business unless you are part of that private organization. Do you have any property there? No? Then you have no business.

You have some problems. One is that you don't know what you're talking about, to defame someone I would have had to make something harmful up about the individual and promote it as true. I have not done that. Thank you.

The presidential elections are my business, the LP has put a public candidate out there and I am free, free, free to criticize him. Just as I am free to criticize Baldwin (I have), McCain (check), Obama (check), Gravel (check), and on and on and on. I have no property at any political party, yet I have the AUDACITY to criticize any candidate I want. You run for president, you get criticism. If you hadn't noticed, he's not the only one and I don't see you rushing to Obama or McCain's defense.

Your argument is a pathetic failure, unless the LP is somehow magically different than the GOP or the Democratic Party--and I just don't think it is.

Knightskye
09-12-2008, 06:16 PM
Just sent it to you. Let me know if it comes through. I wouldn't know how to capture the entire correspondence reasonably well given its length.

That is pretty crazy.


u had reel librian,

but u eated it.

:D

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 06:20 PM
You have some problems. One is that you don't know what you're talking about, to defame someone I would have had to make something harmful up about the individual and promote it as true. I have not done that. Thank you.

The presidential elections are my business, the LP has put a public candidate out there and I am free, free, free to criticize him. Just as I am free to criticize Baldwin (I have), McCain (check), Obama (check), Gravel (check), and on and on and on. I have no property at any political party, yet I have the AUDACITY to criticize any candidate I want. You run for president, you get criticism. If you hadn't noticed, he's not the only one and I don't see you rushing to Obama or McCain's defense.

Your argument is a pathetic failure, unless the LP is somehow magically different than the GOP or the Democratic Party--and I just don't think it is.


You have said many untrue things about Bob that could be seen as harmful to his reputation (example, some people here blindly believe untrue things you've said).

Second. Again, criticism is different from defamation.

Finally, the elections may be your business, but what goes on in the Libertarian Party is not. You can vote. You can not impose your will on a private organization. You do not have any business in their election process, decision making process, or anything of the sort.

Finally, I have come to the defense of other candidates when it was merited. People here were praying for a McCain death. This was wrong. However, there is hardly anything to defend of these candidates because you can pull up video or audio to support almost anything.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 06:24 PM
Second. Again, criticism is different from defamation.

Finally, the elections may be your business, but what goes on in the Libertarian Party is not. You can vote. You can not impose your will on a private organization. You do not have any business in their election process, decision making process, or anything of the sort.



Again. Point out where I've defamed anyone.

Finally. They are just as much my business as any other political party and I am not imposing my will, I am letting them know how I feel about their choice. If I were interested in voting for the Green party and didn't like McKinney, I'd petition to get rid of her too.

And guess what? You can petition to keep Barr! Even if you aren't a card-carrying member!

FREEDOM woohoo!

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 06:25 PM
Amy,

Why are you ignoring my relevant question that relates to this thread? Are you a card carrying member of the LP? She must be afraid to answer. Ihate to harp on like this, but I really am wondering why she can't answer this SIMPLE question.

I'm certain this is a waste of time but what the hell.


1. I never said that I was a member of the Libertarian party. Please quote me.


Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the intention of the LP this year was to get "non" card carrying members to vote for Barr. To get people like Amy and myself, as registered voters who aren't LP members, to cast a vote for the LP.

Now I can't speak for anyone else but I had every intention of voting for Barr before this fiasco. Now, I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

Cowlesy
09-12-2008, 06:27 PM
Again. Point out where I've defamed anyone.

Finally. They are just as much my business as any other political party and I am not imposing my will, I am letting them know how I feel about their choice. If I were interested in voting for the Green party and didn't like McKinney, I'd petition to get rid of her too.

And guess what? You can petition to keep Barr! Even if you aren't a card-carrying member!

FREEDOM woohoo!

You cannot defeat the great metro-mustache-of-knowledge-and-understanding candidate. He will burn out your soul with a glare through the enhanced Dolce & Gabbana frames as he quips, "Be gone with ye! If ye have no bread, ye shall eat cake!..mpph!"

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 06:31 PM
Again. Point out where I've defamed anyone.

Finally. They are just as much my business as any other political party and I am not imposing my will, I am letting them know how I feel about their choice. If I were interested in voting for the Green party and didn't like McKinney, I'd petition to get rid of her too.

And guess what? You can petition to keep Barr! Even if you aren't a card-carrying member!

FREEDOM woohoo!

No, they aren't your business, that is a fact. Nothing is your business unless it is your property or it infringes on your rights.

The Mom and Pop pizza shop down the road isn't my business if I don't have any affiliation with them, no matter how much I love pizza. It's not my property.

And, I will petition to keep Barr because, if he is taken off the ticket, it is in MY interest because I have a membership with the LP. Not only that, they'll be contradicting their platform and party because he hasn't done anything wrong. Even though I haven't decided who I'm voting for I acknowledge Bob's position. He's not in the wrong, here.

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 06:31 PM
You cannot defeat the great metro-mustache-of-knowledge-and-understanding candidate. He will burn out your soul with a glare through the enhanced Dolce & Gabbana frames as he quips, "Be gone with ye! If ye have no bread, ye shall eat cake!..mpph!"

I do have D&G frames. :o

amy31416
09-12-2008, 06:33 PM
You cannot defeat the great metro-mustache-of-knowledge-and-understanding candidate. He will burn out your soul with a glare through the enhanced Dolce & Gabbana frames as he quips, "Be gone with ye! If ye have no bread, ye shall eat cake!..mpph!"

You have made the best points in this thread so far. You're right, I have no power next to the 'stache.

RETREAT! RETREAT!

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 06:35 PM
I'm certain this is a waste of time but what the hell.




Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the intention of the LP this year was to get "non" card carrying members to vote for Barr. To get people like Amy and myself, as registered voters who aren't LP members, to cast a vote for the LP.

Now I can't speak for anyone else but I had every intention of voting for Barr before this fiasco. Now, I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

Why aren't you Republicans setting up a petition against McCain? You don't even have the decency to be a member of the LP organization. You need to research PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS. You also need to do some research on the bylaws of the LP. ;)

Cowlesy
09-12-2008, 06:36 PM
You have made the best points in this thread so far. You're right, I have no power next to the 'stache.

RETREAT! RETREAT!

no no...

it's "RUNAWAY! RUNAWAY!" ---- you can hear the actual phrase in the chatroom by checking out the soundboard.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 06:38 PM
No, they aren't your business, that is a fact. Nothing is your business unless it is your property or it infringes on your rights.

The Mom and Pop pizza shop down the road isn't my business if I don't have any affiliation with them, no matter how much I love pizza. It's not my property.

Is so my business. I gotta pick out a person to vote for, therefore the candidates not just my business, but my obligation to look into. Capische?

The quality of pizza is not comparable, I don't have an obligation (sorry anarchists, that's how I see it) to vote for a pizza shop.

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 06:38 PM
You don't even have the decency to be a member of the LP organization.

:rolleyes:

Like I said, waste of time.

Good luck alienating more voters, you're off to a good start!

amy31416
09-12-2008, 06:39 PM
no no...

it's "RUNAWAY! RUNAWAY!" ---- you can hear the actual phrase in the chatroom by checking out the soundboard.

lawl, I can't even get running away in fear right. :p

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 06:40 PM
Is so my business. I gotta pick out a person to vote for, therefore the candidates not just my business, but my obligation to look into. Capische?

The quality of pizza is not comparable, I don't have an obligation (sorry anarchists, that's how I see it) to vote for a pizza shop.

So even though it is a private organization, you believe you have a right to their records, decisions, operations, etc?

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 06:40 PM
:rolleyes:

Like I said, waste of time.

Good luck alienating more voters, you're off to a good start!

I'm not an LP member. I'm looking out for property rights here. So, when will I see that McCain petition? ;)

amy31416
09-12-2008, 06:41 PM
:rolleyes:

Like I said, waste of time.

Good luck alienating more voters, you're off to a good start!

That was allegedly the whole point of putting in Barr over Ruwart, wasn't it?

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 06:42 PM
That was allegedly the whole point of putting in Barr over Ruwart, wasn't it?

Will you respond to my previous post?

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 06:43 PM
That was allegedly the whole point of putting in Barr over Ruwart, wasn't it?

Is Amy capable of answering simple questions? Apparently not.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 06:45 PM
So even though it is a private organization, you believe you have a right to their records, decisions, operations, etc?

Not sure where I asked for their records, decisions or operations. Please point out where I have. I do, however, have a right to criticize or ask any questions I want. They can choose to ignore it, that's their prerogative. And I will judge them based on that.

Glad you at least dropped the defamation accusation, that was obviously ridiculous.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 06:47 PM
I do have D&G frames. :o

That's nice.


Will you respond to my previous post?

There you go.

Knightskye
09-12-2008, 06:47 PM
:rolleyes:

Like I said, waste of time.

Good luck alienating more voters, you're off to a good start!

What do you suggest instead of joining the Libertarian Party?

amy31416
09-12-2008, 06:49 PM
No, they aren't your business, that is a fact. Nothing is your business unless it is your property or it infringes on your rights.

The Mom and Pop pizza shop down the road isn't my business if I don't have any affiliation with them, no matter how much I love pizza. It's not my property.

And, I will petition to keep Barr because, if he is taken off the ticket, it is in MY interest because I have a membership with the LP. Not only that, they'll be contradicting their platform and party because he hasn't done anything wrong. Even though I haven't decided who I'm voting for I acknowledge Bob's position. He's not in the wrong, here.

Good for you, I support your right to do whatever you want. I disagree with you, but I won't try to make up some bizarre stuff to say that you don't have a right to your opinion.

And it is my damned business if they want me to vote for him, thought we covered that, chief.

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 06:50 PM
So even though it is a private organization, you believe you have a right to their records, decisions, operations, etc?

If they expect me to vote for them they had better be willing to hear my voice. If they ignore me they suffer the same fate as the GOP; I won't vote for their candidate.

You can continue to harp on property rights as though that has any bearing on any of this, it doesn't.

If the LP wishes me to "buy" their "product" they had better make sure it's appealing. The burden isn't on me to find a reason to vote for Barr, quite the opposite in fact.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 06:52 PM
What do you suggest instead of joining the Libertarian Party?

That's a good question and a big part of my frustration. The CP is not for me, I barely tolerate the GOP, despite accusations that I'm a commie, I'm certainly not going for the Democratic/Green, etc. parties.

The LP was kind of the last hope. It sucks to say the least.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 06:52 PM
If they expect me to vote for them they had better be willing to hear my voice. If they ignore me they suffer the same fate as the GOP; I won't vote for their candidate.

You can continue to harp on property rights as though that has any bearing on any of this, it doesn't.

If the LP wishes me to "buy" their "product" they had better make sure it's appealing. The burden isn't on me to find a reason to vote for Barr, quite the opposite in fact.

You have no respect for property rights. You are not a libertarian. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if you're a socialist.

moostraks
09-12-2008, 06:53 PM
First and foremost, your first sentence does not make any sense. Can you construct one without trying to sound smart? ;)

Defamation is not protected speech. This is a fact.

And, no. What's wearing thin is the spam and garbage threads in the Grassroots forum. Regardless, all you've managed to do is create drama. Now, are you going to contribute anything useful or will you continue to argue opinion?


Had 7 children up my buns when I typed so sorry...

How is she defaming someone?

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 06:53 PM
If they expect me to vote for them they had better be willing to hear my voice. If they ignore me they suffer the same fate as the GOP; I won't vote for their candidate.

You can continue to harp on property rights as though that has any bearing on any of this, it doesn't.

If the LP wishes me to "buy" their "product" they had better make sure it's appealing. The burden isn't on me to find a reason to vote for Barr, quite the opposite in fact.

The LP isn't about selling a candidate. It's about an ideal. You're either on board with liberty or you're not.

And, I'll say this again even though you can't seem to catch on, you have a right to ask questions etc, but you don't have a right to whatever you want from a private organization.

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 06:55 PM
You have no respect for property rights. You are not a libertarian. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if you're a socialist.

You are completely insane. I have no idea what you're talking about and I suspect you don't either. I have said nothing about property rights. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if you had gone off your medication.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 06:59 PM
You are completely insane. I have no idea what you're talking about and I suspect you don't either. I have said nothing about property rights. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if you had gone off your medication.

Can you debate without resorting to personal attacks?

LP is a private organization. Are you oblivious to this fact?

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 07:01 PM
The LP isn't about selling a candidate. It's about an ideal. You're either on board with liberty or you're not.

And, I'll say this again even though you can't seem to catch on, you have a right to ask questions etc, but you don't have a right to whatever you want from a private organization.

No, they are selling a candidate. He's the front man, the face, the one representing the ideal.

I have asked questions and the answers I received are insufficient and in spite of the fact that you can't seem to get it, I'll say it again. I have the right to want whatever I wish from a private organization and they have the right to deny my wishes but if they expect my support they had better be willing to at least address my wishes in a reasonable manner. You see that's the main point, "if the expect my support".

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 07:04 PM
No, they are selling a candidate. He's the front man, the face, the one representing the ideal.

I have asked questions and the answers I received are insufficient and in spite of the fact that you can't seem to get it, I'll say it again. I have the right to want whatever I wish from a private organization and they have the right to deny my wishes but if they expect my support they had better be willing to at least address my wishes in a reasonable manner. You see that's the main point, "if the expect my support".

That's a fair assessment. I have a problem with people like Amy and Menthol Patch saying they deserve and expect whatever they wish from a private organization.

Cowlesy
09-12-2008, 07:04 PM
No, they are selling a candidate. He's the front man, the face, the one representing the ideal.

I have asked questions and the answers I received are insufficient and in spite of the fact that you can't seem to get it, I'll say it again. I have the right to want whatever I wish from a private organization and they have the right to deny my wishes but if they expect my support they had better be willing to at least address my wishes in a reasonable manner. You see that's the main point, "if the expect my support".

They're just trying to wear you down with a spurious argument. They know that you don't think you could ever demand stuff from a private organization, but are just using it to try and get you riled up about nothing.

I think the Libertarian Party still has a lot of promise. All that has happened is that their nominee has pissed off a lot of diehard Ron Paul supporters who are bucketing the entire LP in with the candidate is all.

LP still has promise of course, but a lot of people don't like the candidate for one reason or another. No reason to sink the battleship because the captain is a jackass.

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 07:04 PM
Can you debate without resorting to personal attacks?

LP is a private organization. Are you oblivious to this fact?


You don't even have the decency to be a member of the LP organization.


At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if you're a socialist.


After 3 posts I'm an indecent socialist.

:rolleyes:

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 07:06 PM
They're just trying to wear you down with a spurious argument. They know that you don't think you could ever demand stuff from a private organization, but are just using it to try and get you riled up about nothing.

I think the Libertarian Party still has a lot of promise. All that has happened is that their nominee has pissed off a lot of diehard Ron Paul supporters who are bucketing the entire LP in with the candidate is all.

LP still has promise of course, but a lot of people don't like the candidate for one reason or another. No reason to sink the battleship because the captain is a jackass.

Well all my energy is going into saving the GOP as Ron Paul directed us to do, I just don't have time to save the LP too. :p

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 07:06 PM
They're just trying to wear you down with a spurious argument. They know that you don't think you could ever demand stuff from a private organization, but are just using it to try and get you riled up about nothing.

I think the Libertarian Party still has a lot of promise. All that has happened is that their nominee has pissed off a lot of diehard Ron Paul supporters who are bucketing the entire LP in with the candidate is all.

LP still has promise of course, but a lot of people don't like the candidate for one reason or another. No reason to sink the battleship because the captain is a jackass.

So, the LP deserves less rights than any other private organization? LOL. I'm just defending private property rights. Someone has got to do it! ;)

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 07:07 PM
After 3 posts I'm an indecent socialist.

:rolleyes:

I didn't say you was, I just wouldn't be surprised to find out that you really are....

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 07:07 PM
I'm just defending private property rights.

No, you're not.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 07:08 PM
That's a fair assessment. I have a problem with people like Amy and Menthol Patch saying they deserve and expect whatever they wish from a private organization.

*sigh*

Once again, please quote me. I never said any such thing.

I have a problem with people like you who will make up anything to attempt to make their point. ARC made his point without making anything up about me. His point is noted. So far, you have not made a good point except that you're pissed off about this, think I'm a commie and would prefer that I "fuck off" rather than express my displeasure about Barr's own actions.

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 07:08 PM
I didn't say you was,

Yes, you did. It's in writing. You do understand how this works right?

Cowlesy
09-12-2008, 07:08 PM
So, the LP deserves less rights than any other private organization? LOL. I'm just defending private property rights. Someone has got to do it! ;)

No you are failing to read posts and then making a post which has zero resemblance of a retort against that which you quoted.

Typical blindfolded, one-armed potshot in the dark at a moving target tactic JTL, c'mon now kiddo!

amy31416
09-12-2008, 07:11 PM
They're just trying to wear you down with a spurious argument. They know that you don't think you could ever demand stuff from a private organization, but are just using it to try and get you riled up about nothing.

I think the Libertarian Party still has a lot of promise. All that has happened is that their nominee has pissed off a lot of diehard Ron Paul supporters who are bucketing the entire LP in with the candidate is all.

LP still has promise of course, but a lot of people don't like the candidate for one reason or another. No reason to sink the battleship because the captain is a jackass.

Agreed. I hope that they will somehow respond to this, and well, I wasn't too impressed with Andrew Davis.

As I've said, I'll still be checking out the local LP chapter, unless, of course I also don't have the right to look into them.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 07:12 PM
Yes, you did. It's in writing. You do understand how this works right?

Why resort to slander? You do know that it means you forfeit your "argument," right? I said, and I paraphase, "I wouldn't be surprised to find out that you're a socialist down the road..." that's not an attack, it's considered by many to compliment to be called a socialist, but I wasn't calling you a socialist. I just wouldn't be surprised to find out..... not the same as calling you a socialist :p

Anyway, where's that McCain petition?

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 07:12 PM
Well all my energy is going into saving the GOP as Ron Paul directed us to do, I just don't have time to save the LP too. :p

Well, I'm not a Republican; I'm a Libertarian. I'm up for donating to a liberty candidate running as a Republican or restoring the Republican platform but the party isn't my prerogative.

amy31416
09-12-2008, 07:16 PM
The LP isn't about selling a candidate. It's about an ideal. You're either on board with liberty or you're not.

And, I'll say this again even though you can't seem to catch on, you have a right to ask questions etc, but you don't have a right to whatever you want from a private organization.

Where have I heard the "You're either with us or against us" argument?

Oh yeah:

http://www.endevil.com/images/bush21.jpg

And as far as I've seen nobody has ever said they have the rights to whatever they want from a private organization.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 07:17 PM
Where have I heard the "You're either with us or against us" argument?

Oh yeah:

http://www.endevil.com/images/bush21.jpg

And as far as I've seen nobody has ever said they have the rights to whatever they want from a private organization.

Amy is afraid to answer my one question. I don't know about her.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 07:18 PM
No you are failing to read posts and then making a post which has zero resemblance of a retort against that which you quoted.

Typical blindfolded, one-armed potshot in the dark at a moving target tactic JTL, c'mon now kiddo!

Maybe I found a good LIBERTARIAN angle at which to debate? Don't get frustrated with property rights, c'mon now kiddo! ;)

moostraks
09-12-2008, 07:32 PM
First and foremost, your first sentence does not make any sense. Can you construct one without trying to sound smart? ;)

Defamation is not protected speech. This is a fact.

And, no. What's wearing thin is the spam and garbage threads in the Grassroots forum. Regardless, all you've managed to do is create drama. Now, are you going to contribute anything useful or will you continue to argue opinion?

I have created drama? You are the one who came on here and start spamming about property rights and telling everyone they are ripping off your free speech and Barr is being maligned because Amy wants to tell the LP that they are making a grave mistake with her and other voters if they want to be receiving votes in November.

Reread before you spout off about my posts. You cannot seem to keep track of what you are saying and what is being responded to in subsequent posts. However you are darned sure to get a dig in on people to keep the drama going so they we continue to defend our reputations to the lp troll.

You:If you do not have any vested interest or ownership to "property" in the LP you are not entitled to manipulate any of that property....you have no right to it. It's a private organization, bud.

Me:She can relay information regarding an incidence which portrays to potential voters the level of irrational, immature individuals who are maintaining the communications department of one of the parties running for office of HER country. (Free Speech)[I believed you were speaking on the matter of manipulating the LP by posting information here regarding the horse manure from the communications guy]
Next line should have begun with Furthermore but with 7 children up your buns something often gets lost...

Me:She can also request them to do anything she chooses to request of them. What they choose to do after the fact is then their choice. It is not a matter of force to request a matter be attended, as she is not holding a gun or forcing the matter. She is however holding a vote and if they really wanted to receive that vote they would treat someone making an inquiry with respect and maturity especially as is regarding the office of the presidency of the United States.

You need to get a grip and cease parroting from LP pamphlets, especially until you can understand its use in context. Do you know anything other than to cry my free speech is being violated and private property rights? The LP candidate is running for public office not private party office. If she (Amy)wants to ask for an explanation, apology, or spam on toast she can ask for it from them. If they want to comply they can choose to as they see fit.

If she wants to post her experience with the party in this forum, she can until the mod's tell her to cease and desist.The relevance is it gives us, as voters wishing to further CFL's third party bump in votes, information to use when choosing which party to back. This is in essence what I stated in the other post you seem to have some problem with understanding. I did not realize I had to bring it down to the primary school level. You on the other hand have added what?

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 07:32 PM
Where have I heard the "You're either with us or against us" argument?

Oh yeah:

http://www.endevil.com/images/bush21.jpg

And as far as I've seen nobody has ever said they have the rights to whatever they want from a private organization.

No, it's not a matter of with or against. If the LP fits your ideals you vote LP. It's not about selling anything.

Little girl, it might be time to grow up instead of misconstruing statements :rolleyes:

amy31416
09-12-2008, 07:40 PM
No, it's not a matter of with or against. If the LP fits your ideals you vote LP. It's not about selling anything.

Little girl, it might be time to grow up instead of misconstruing statements :rolleyes:

Try reading and comprehending the posts in this thread, especially moostraks one above. You have been the king of false accusations here.

And if you think you're going to be able to goad me into getting pissed off by calling me "little girl", "hun" or even "sweetie", you might want to try another tact.

And, oh, just because the LP fits my ideals, doesn't mean I will blindly vote LP. How many people have made that mistake and ended up with some serious assholes in office?

Answer: most everyone in America. The person holding office does matter.

moostraks
09-12-2008, 07:41 PM
No, it's not a matter of with or against. If the LP fits your ideals you vote LP. It's not about selling anything.

Little girl, it might be time to grow up instead of misconstruing statements :rolleyes:

Not if the man is a wolf in sheeps clothing.....You don't vote for the party you vote for the person. It is the responsibilty of the party to make sure their candidate represents the best they have to offer. I think Barr snowed the LP or got a voting block to manipulate the party to receive the nomination.<IMHO>

moostraks
09-12-2008, 07:51 PM
Why resort to slander? You do know that it means you forfeit your "argument," right? I said, and I paraphase, "I wouldn't be surprised to find out that you're a socialist down the road..." that's not an attack, it's considered by many to compliment to be called a socialist, but I wasn't calling you a socialist. I just wouldn't be surprised to find out..... not the same as calling you a socialist :p

Anyway, where's that McCain petition?

As a person voting for office of the President of the US she can request review of the situation at discretion of those in power in the LP. They can review as they see fit depending on how serious they take her request. People do this all the time with private companies then they vote with their dollar. She gave them the benefit of the heads up.

If a petition would get McCain off the ballot believe me it would be done. We did all that we could to change the scenario with the republican ticket. What have you done to further freedom aside from badger the crap out of people here who want to minimalize government interference in the lives of its citizens?

rockandrollsouls
09-12-2008, 08:39 PM
Not if the man is a wolf in sheeps clothing.....You don't vote for the party you vote for the person. It is the responsibilty of the party to make sure their candidate represents the best they have to offer. I think Barr snowed the LP or got a voting block to manipulate the party to receive the nomination.<IMHO>

No, you vote for the party. The person is simply the carrier of the party's principles. The party nominates a candidate to represent them. This is why Barr is running on the LP ticket and not as an independent. There is a different between independent and third party.

Omphfullas Zamboni
09-12-2008, 08:53 PM
No, you vote for the party. The person is simply the carrier of the party's principles. The party nominates a candidate to represent them. This is why Barr is running on the LP ticket and not as an independent. There is a different between independent and third party.

Ron Paul is a Republican.

Mark
09-12-2008, 09:18 PM
Amy is dodging my questions.

I think somewhere back on page 162 she said she put you on ignore,
which basically means she can't see nor cares about what you have to say.

jcarcinogen
09-12-2008, 09:22 PM
Ron Paul is a Republican.

Ron Paul tried to make a genuine press conference to get people to vote third party, Fox news (what so called conservatives watch) showed Barr asking Paul to replace neocon unless I get taxed Root, Paul's message didn't make Fox.

DeadtoSin
09-12-2008, 09:24 PM
I think somewhere back on page 162 she said she put you on ignore,
which basically means she can't see nor cares about what you have to say.

As it should be I think.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 09:30 PM
As it should be I think.

You're a troll, dead. Every recent post of yours is a one line attack on me. Quite pathetic, don't you think? He attacks me because I oppose ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) a socialistic piece of legislation. So he goes around and tries to insult me every chance he gets now. What a joke he is. You statist.

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 09:32 PM
Quite pathetic, don't you think?

Yes, but I have no intention of getting into a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 09:35 PM
Yes, but I have no intention of getting into a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Tha's all xtians can do when they can't debate. They resort to personal attacks.. thanks for proving my point. You are pathetic

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 09:37 PM
Tha's all xtians can do when they can't debate. They resort to personal attacks.. thanks for proving my point. You are pathetic

You proved your own point long ago.

DeadtoSin
09-12-2008, 09:40 PM
You're a troll, dead. Every recent post of yours is a one line attack on me. Quite pathetic, don't you think? He attacks me because I oppose ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) a socialistic piece of legislation. So he goes around and tries to insult me every chance he gets now. What a joke he is. You statist.

My recent posts are in the thread you started and lied about throughout the thread. And why are you talking to me if I am a troll? Put me on ignore and don't respond to me.

The sad thing is, you even lie to yourself. You fool yourself into thinking I attacked you through private chat when it was you who harassed me while complaining in the channel about harassment. Man, I wish I'd taken a screenshot of that to post.

I'm not insulting you by saying thats as it should be. You should be on everyone's ignore list, I don't even know why you aren't on mine. You can slander my name all you like, but I know you truly for a liar. You DID make light of disabled people in your attack on the ADA (justified or not), and that is why I joined in. As I said, slander me if you like, but just remember that you are a liar and you have no credibility in your arguments as a liar.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 09:40 PM
You proved your own point long ago.

I'm not an xtian ;) but I know you are. Stop hijacking the thread.

You can't debate content, so you attack me, then you whine once I start to fight back.

You obviously have no respect for private property rights. Where's that McCain petition? You are a registered GOP, yes?

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 09:41 PM
How about this little gem.


lol. You make me giggle. Have it yor own way. While I don't feel the same reactionary sentiments, I do criticiZe both of those guys.

Ventura: 9/11 truth nut

Kokesh: annoying, probably a lefty cum guzzler

I especially appreciate how you attack a combat veteran. Classy as always Joe.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 09:42 PM
How about this little gem.



I especially appreciate how you attack a combat veteran. Classy as always Joe.

Soldiers are tools of the state. Stop hijacking the thread.

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 09:44 PM
Soldiers are tools of the state. Stop hijacking the thread.

You're amusing, in an annoying sort of way.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 09:45 PM
Your amusing, in an annoying sort of way.

You're*

Learn to spell. Why are you hijacking this thread?

Yup, soldiers are tools of the state. They are state property, and imo, that's nothing to be proud of.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 09:49 PM
The Hypocrisy of the American Christian Soldier (http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance69.html)

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 09:49 PM
You're*

Learn to spell. Why are you hijacking this thread?

Yup, soldiers are tools of the state. They are state property, and imo, that's nothing to be proud of.

You hijacked this thread long ago, as anyone reading it can see. You do yourself such a disservice and you seem to be unaware of it. If I cared I might just feel bad for you.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 09:52 PM
You hijacked this thread long ago, as anyone reading it can see. You do yourself such a disservice and you seem to be unaware of it. If I cared I might just feel bad for you.

Liar. I went back on topic on post #221. You then went back off-topic ad hominem attacks on me.

You forfeited your debate. I must be ending this, you're on ignore

DeadtoSin
09-12-2008, 09:53 PM
The Hypocrisy of the American Christian Soldier (http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance69.html)

I love how you complain about hijacking the thread, and you hijack it.

Good job being a hypocrite. Listen, everyone knows you are a liar. The admins may turn a blind eye to you, but people here see you for how you really are. You get made fun of by a significant portion of the chat when you leave, because you act ridiculous in there.

My recent posts are in the thread you started and lied about throughout the thread. And why are you talking to me if I am a troll? Put me on ignore and don't respond to me.

The sad thing is, you even lie to yourself. You fool yourself into thinking I attacked you through private chat when it was you who harassed me while complaining in the channel about harassment. Man, I wish I'd taken a screenshot of that to post.

I'm not insulting you by saying thats as it should be. You should be on everyone's ignore list, I don't even know why you aren't on mine. You can slander my name all you like, but I know you truly for a liar. You DID make light of disabled people in your attack on the ADA (justified or not), and that is why I joined in. As I said, slander me if you like, but just remember that you are a liar and you have no credibility in your arguments as a liar.

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 09:54 PM
Liar. I went back on topic on post #221. You then went back off-topic ad hominem attacks on me.

You forfeited your debate. I must be ending this, you're on ignore

You mean I won't be subject to your nonsensical arguments anymore? No more pointless debate?

How sad. :rolleyes:

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 10:11 PM
You are a registered GOP, yes?

No, I don't need to be. My precinct is in the hands of a Ron Paul supporter who happens to sleep next to me. She is not only a PCO but also an Executive board member.

That's the plan we are working under, since you seem to have missed it.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 10:18 PM
I love how you complain about hijacking the thread, and you hijack it.

Good job being a hypocrite. Listen, everyone knows you are a liar. The admins may turn a blind eye to you, but people here see you for how you really are. You get made fun of by a significant portion of the chat when you leave, because you act ridiculous in there.

My recent posts are in the thread you started and lied about throughout the thread. And why are you talking to me if I am a troll? Put me on ignore and don't respond to me.

The sad thing is, you even lie to yourself. You fool yourself into thinking I attacked you through private chat when it was you who harassed me while complaining in the channel about harassment. Man, I wish I'd taken a screenshot of that to post.

I'm not insulting you by saying thats as it should be. You should be on everyone's ignore list, I don't even know why you aren't on mine. You can slander my name all you like, but I know you truly for a liar. You DID make light of disabled people in your attack on the ADA (justified or not), and that is why I joined in. As I said, slander me if you like, but just remember that you are a liar and you have no credibility in your arguments as a liar.

Alright. You're also going on ignore. Thanks for reminding me. You're wrong, I *never* made light of disabled people, I attacked the ada legislation and then you started calling me names. You also conveniently ignore the part when sb sent me death threats.

Mods don't turn a blind eye. I've received a few points in the past year....

Good bye.

DeadtoSin
09-12-2008, 10:30 PM
Awesome. Looks like I did something right. Back on topic though. Amy, it seems like the LP isn't quite as professional as I was hoping for. I can't vote for Barr anymore after all this recent stuff.

Neil Kiernan Stephenson
09-12-2008, 10:31 PM
Honestly, I thought about this heavily. The people taking over the LP only stand to gain by those of us who leave the LP. Next time they want to put an idiot like Barr on the ticket there will be less people voting for actual Libertarians.

ClockwiseSpark
09-12-2008, 10:35 PM
Honestly, I thought about this heavily. The people taking over the LP only stand to gain by those of us who leave the LP. Next time they want to put an idiot like Barr on the ticket there will be less people voting for actual Libertarians.

That's absolutely true. Everyone should find their own place to work towards our ends, be it in the GOP, the LP or whatever party you feel comfortable working with.

acptulsa
09-13-2008, 10:54 AM
I second this. Amy once told me in a PM exchange that she won't join the LP because some of the "radical" views of the radical caucus.

Link?


So she was never a member. But this is just my neutral input to the discussion :D

Neutral? Are you referring to the gear your brain is in while your mouth runs away downhill in overdrive?

acptulsa
09-13-2008, 11:07 AM
YOU AREN'T AND NEVER WERE A MEMBER OF THE LP AND NEVER CONTRIBUTED TO THEM. BOTTOM LINE. YOU'VE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE PARTY NOR HAVE YOU HELPED CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CAUSE. Just because you think your opinion of Barr is holier than thou doesn't mean you can usher yourself in and govern the party.

Me neither. However, I voted for Dave Bergland, Ron Paul, Andre Marrou and Harry Browne. I didn't vote for Browne the second time nor for Badnarik because I was convinced from 1999 that Dubya was so evil that those dipshits Gore and Kerry were worth strategic votes, pretty damned evil or not. I have voted in every general election since 1984 and have voted for every Libertarian candidate that has been on my ballot except only for the two exceptions noted above. And, unless you are a lot older than your maturity level would indicate, I have been spreading the message about the Libertarian Party to anyone I could pidgeonhole since before you were born. And if I believe the Libertarian Party has developed a fatal cancer, I will stand and fight that cancer in the hope that the party can be saved, because I desperately want it to continue the good fight. No one is trying to govern the party here. Someone is just standing up and trying to get them to see how their actions are affecting the people who are sympathetic to the cause.


For lack of a better term, FUCK OFF. You're attitude is the exact opposite of what this movement was for. You're a communist trying to sensor people you don't agree with.

Amy is a commie pinko with sensors? Have you lost your mind?

You can enjoy your state of denial over the ongoing destruction of the Libertarian Party all you wish, but that doesn't mean those who are trying to battle the cancer that threatens it are commie pinko ****. Your argument is baseless and brainless.

acptulsa
09-13-2008, 11:07 AM
Honestly, I thought about this heavily. The people taking over the LP only stand to gain by those of us who leave the LP. Next time they want to put an idiot like Barr on the ticket there will be less people voting for actual Libertarians.

Thank you, sir, for your clear vision and your sanity.

acptulsa
09-13-2008, 11:36 AM
This entire post didn't make any sense. Little girl, did you even take the time to read my previous post?

In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel, slander, and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image.

You've done plenty of that.

Hitler wanted to make a difference, for the better, but he didn't respect property rights. If you don't have any ownership in the "property," you're opinion doesn't mean jack-squat, and that's a FACT. You have nothing to do with the LP or Walmart, and the idea that you can impose your will on them is laughable.

In The New York Times Co. vs. Sullivan (1964), the Supreme Court ruled that debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust and wide open. Public officials are not entitled to libel damages except statements made 'with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not.' The usual standard established by precedent is that a public official is a person with '...a role of special prominence'.

There was nothing she or I put in that petition that was stated as fact except that which is easy to verfiy. If you disagree, provide the example and state your case. Otherwise, you are the one exposing yourself to a charge of libel. Indeed, as neither amy31416 nor I are people with 'a role of special prominence', the odds that this libel case against you would be more effective than Bob Barr's hypothetical case against us are right at one hundred percent.

The Libertarian Party is private property. So is my vote. If they want the one, they'll have to publicly satisfy me that they deserve it. If they are so private as to be unwilling to be transparent enough to earn our trust, how are they going to get more than a handful of votes? After all, it isn't exactly a majority of the voting population who have a blind faith in the LP. This isn't the kind of person the LP generally attracts.

Little boy.

mtmedlin
09-13-2008, 12:45 PM
Try reading and comprehending the posts in this thread, especially moostraks one above. You have been the king of false accusations here.

And if you think you're going to be able to goad me into getting pissed off by calling me "little girl", "hun" or even "sweetie", you might want to try another tact.

And, oh, just because the LP fits my ideals, doesn't mean I will blindly vote LP. How many people have made that mistake and ended up with some serious assholes in office?

Answer: most everyone in America. The person holding office does matter.

AMY,

Why do you continue to debate those that are intellectually your inferior. Just pat them on the head and look at them with compassion. It's not their fault and its not your job to correct them.

The simplest answer you can give that goat fuck wannabe J the Lib is that private institutions seeking support can have demands placed upon them by non members since they seek non members support. Harry Browne got around 600,000 votes when there was less then half that many registered Libertarians. If only registered Libs voted then the LP would never amount to more then 1/4 of 1% of the vote.
Even a moron can see that non members can sign a pledge stating that you would vote Lib IF Barr is not the nominee and the LP will take it seriously. If not, they doom themselves to never growing or making a difference.

I will walk away now shaking my head and wishing this movement had actual direction and purpose...sigh

JosephTheLibertarian
09-13-2008, 12:49 PM
Link?



Neutral? Are you referring to the gear your brain is in while your mouth runs away downhill in overdrive?

You can't link a pm exchange. You forfeited your "debate" when you began attacking me.

ignored

Flash
09-13-2008, 12:54 PM
I wanted to be a Libertarian but over the past few days they've been extremely rude to the Ron Paul fanbase. They are acting like it is our job to support whoever the LP spits out.

Right now I'm more impressed with Ralph Nader than all the other candidates. He has been trying to break the 2 party system for a very long time and took a lot of criticism for it.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-13-2008, 12:54 PM
AMY,

Why do you continue to debate those that are intellectually your inferior. Just pat them on the head and look at them with compassion. It's not their fault and its not your job to correct them.

The simplest answer you can give that goat fuck wannabe J the Lib is that private institutions seeking support can have demands placed upon them by non members since they seek non members support. Harry Browne got around 600,000 votes when there was less then half that many registered Libertarians. If only registered Libs voted then the LP would never amount to more then 1/4 of 1% of the vote.
Even a moron can see that non members can sign a pledge stating that you would vote Lib IF Barr is not the nominee and the LP will take it seriously. If not, they doom themselves to never growing or making a difference.

I will walk away now shaking my head and wishing this movement had actual direction and purpose...sigh

Seriously, are you statists incapable of simply debating? You always resort to name calling.

I'm not a LP member, when did I say that I am? I'm just looking after private property rights, you know, that thing you don't care about. When will I see a similar GOP petition?

mtmedlin
09-13-2008, 01:24 PM
Seriously, are you statists incapable of simply debating? You always resort to name calling.

I'm not a LP member, when did I say that I am? I'm just looking after private property rights, you know, that thing you don't care about. When will I see a similar GOP petition?

Name calling....did I hurt your feelings Jo? You call yourself a libertarian, yet display a lack of the knowledge of basic prinicples. Heres the deal, you claim private property....fine. WHat the fuck does that have to do with Amy making a petition that tell the LP that they will lose all of these peoples votes if they dont remove Barr. She isnt using force. She is simply informing them of the outcome of their actions. There is no violation of civil rights and no use of force. She is excersising free will and the method of petitioning. Both of which most real libertarians would understand and agree with.

Now, is that close enough to debate for you?

Alawn
09-13-2008, 02:12 PM
What right do you have to expect something of a PRIVATE organization that you're not even a member of?

This is the most ridiculous statement ever. People have every right to criticize any private organization. That has nothing to do with property rights. You also have every right to tell them they will lose your business/vote if they don't do what you want. Sure they can say they don't care about your business/vote but they have to make that decision. That is how things work. Nobody is forcing them to do what you say but they risk business by making people mad. Being a member of the LP is totally irrelevant when anybody can vote in the general. If they want to win they have to try to get non LP voters to vote for them.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-13-2008, 06:32 PM
Name calling....did I hurt your feelings Jo? You call yourself a libertarian, yet display a lack of the knowledge of basic prinicples. Heres the deal, you claim private property....fine. WHat the fuck does that have to do with Amy making a petition that tell the LP that they will lose all of these peoples votes if they dont remove Barr. She isnt using force. She is simply informing them of the outcome of their actions. There is no violation of civil rights and no use of force. She is excersising free will and the method of petitioning. Both of which most real libertarians would understand and agree with.

Now, is that close enough to debate for you?

You're going on ignore. This is your second personal attack in a row.

"You call yourself a libertarian, yet display a lack of the knowledge of basic prinicples."

By doing what? By asking if Amy is a member of the LP? It was a valid question, but she chose to just ignore that question. I also asked, "why don't you create a version for the GOP?" Of course, no reply to that, I guess because you would see how inconsistent you are.

constituent
09-13-2008, 06:34 PM
You're going on ignore. This is your second personal attack in a row.

"You call yourself a libertarian, yet display a lack of the knowledge of basic prinicples."

By doing what? By asking if Amy is a member of the LP? It was a valid question, but she chose to just ignore that question. I also asked, "why don't you create a version for the GOP?" Of course, no reply to that, I guess because you would see how inconsistent you are.

hey man, your list is really gettin' to kludge. he's feelin' kinda left out.

amy31416
09-13-2008, 06:58 PM
hey man, your list is really gettin' to kludge. he's feelin' kinda left out.

The most fun part is that I answered the question several times over, and he already knew the answer to it, yet went on and on posting the same damn question.

And I agree, if I'm a socialist, then Kludge is an uber-socialist dammit! He should be at the top o' the list!

I, on the other hand, just might make a list of random people with a random accusation and put it in my signature. Just for amusement.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-13-2008, 06:59 PM
hey man, your list is really gettin' to kludge. he's feelin' kinda left out.

This site is so much easier to read now :D

acptulsa
09-15-2008, 06:17 AM
You can't link a pm exchange. You forfeited your "debate" when you began attacking me.

ignored

This from the person who accuses me of supporting a neocon piece of crap every time he posts. This from a person who isn't content to personally insult me with a different, hand-crafted put-down each time, but plugs one piece of ridiculousness in his signature so the insult can come automatically.

I think I'm better than the rest of you
A-oo! A-oo! A girl with issues!--Aimee Allen lyric