Exit Polls Suggest GOP Straw Poll Had Discrepancies

[disinter]

According to Capitol Annex an exit poll conducted by Vote Rescue reveals some discrepancies:

http://capitolannex.com/2007/09/03/exit-polls-suggust-gop-straw-poll-had-discrepancies-ron-paul-supporters-turned-away/

[Alabama Supporter]

Give it a rest people. Lets move on to the next event and kick some butt.

Being crybabies does not win votes people!!!

[Mr. White]

Here we go again...

[disinter]

Yea, stick your head in the sand and let them roll over you with corruption. That'll win the election!

[disinter]

Here we go again...

Bingo! Seeing a trend yet?

[r3volution]

................

[Jared Callanan]

Jesus... Get off of it already. It's in the past, move on.

[quickmike]

Yea, stick your head in the sand and let them roll over you with corruption. That'll win the election!

OK, What exactly do you plan on doing about this NOW?? Are you going to demand full congressional investigation of it? Are you goint to go down to Texas yourself and make things right? What are YOU going to do about it?

Or are you just gonna bitch about it like a little pussy? If youre gonna do something about it.......... something real, something concrete, Ill support ya and back you 100%.

Otherwise drop it because its gonna get you nowhere.

[Jared Callanan]

Nicely said, Mike.

This is a great campaign about so many great things and about the future of our country. But I have noticed a problem with some supporters of Ron Paul's around the net, everytime he doesn't finish as well as they thought he should have they cry foul.

We lost the Iowa Straw Poll. The anti-semitic Jim Condit Jr. ran around before the straw poll trying to sue the Iowa GOP so they wouldn't use Diebold Voting machines. Next thing you know the media is saying the Ron Paul campaign is sueing to to get the injunction. It didn't help, it hurt and the crying of foul from the supporters after the count was announced had the MSM scoffing at us for weeks.

I am so fed up with this crap... Stop crying, get out there and hand out some literature.

[quickmike]

Nicely said, Mike.

This is a great campaign about so many great things and about the future of our country. But I have noticed a problem with some supporters of Ron Paul's around the net, everytime he doesn't finish as well as they thought he should have they cry foul.

We lost the Iowa Straw Poll. The anti-semitic Jim Condit Jr. ran around before the straw poll trying to sue the Iowa GOP so they wouldn't use Diebold Voting machines. Next thing you know the media is saying the Ron Paul campaign is sueing to to get the injunction. It didn't help, it hurt and the crying of foul from the supporters after the count was announced had the MSM scoffing at us for weeks.

I am so fed up with this crap... Stop crying, get out there and hand out some literature.

Thank you.............. and ditto on what you said about getting out there and handing stuff out.

[mavtek]

OK, What exactly do you plan on doing about this NOW?? Are you going to demand full congressional investigation of it? Are you goint to go down to Texas yourself and make things right? What are YOU going to do about it?

Or are you just gonna bitch about it like a little pussy? If youre gonna do something about it.......... something real, something concrete, Ill support ya and back you 100%.

Otherwise drop it because its gonna get you nowhere.

Enough evidence and I can most certainly go to the local DA and present a case for Fraud against the Texas GOP.

[Mr. White]

go for it. In the meantime we'll complain about you making ron paul supporters look like a buncha whiny bitches

[quickmike]

Enough evidence and I can most certainly go to the local DA and present a case for Fraud against the Texas GOP.

Yeah, work on that. And in the meantime, Ill go get more evidence on who shot JFK and maybe we can save some money on legal fees if we do a 2 for 1 deal. While you and I are wasting our time, these other fine people can work on getting the word out to people who dont know who Ron Paul even is yet. I just hope they get to people before the MSM gets a hold of what you and I are doing.

It will be interesting to see who gets more done, you and I, or the people out there spreading the positive message to as many people as possible.

[Cowlesy]

Yeah, work on that. And in the meantime, Ill go get more evidence on who shot JFK and maybe we can save some money on legal fees if we do a 2 for 1 deal.


Hahahaha, Mike you never let us down.

[quickmike]

:D

[CasualApathy]

We should be aware of the issue of vote-fraud...

That being said, I totally agree that constantly crying foul doesn't help. At least, not unless you have a convincing case (read: bulletproof).

It's great to keep yourself informed and alert to this issue, but please understand that bitching about it for days and days when you can not even be 100% certain that fraud happened is simply wasting time.

We are all on the same side here, and the day I see proof of fraud, I will be the first to go postal on their establishment asses, but untill then, spread the word.

Think of it in this way if you think fraud I happening:
The more support Ron Paul has, the harder it will be for them to cheat, and the bigger the chances of them getting caught is. So get out there and spread the word for the good Doctor.

[Ozwest]

quickmike, Paper ballots , marked with indellible ink, put into clear boxes, and counted in plain view. Is that too much to ask?

[quickmike]

We should be aware of the issue of vote-fraud...

That being said, I totally agree that constantly crying foul doesn't help. At least, not unless you have a convincing case (read: bulletproof).

It's great to keep yourself informed and alert to this issue, but please understand that bitching about it for days and days when you can not even be 100% certain that fraud happened is simply wasting time.

We are all on the same side here, and the day I see proof of fraud, I will be the first to go postal on their establishment asses, but untill then, spread the word.

Think of it in this way if you think fraud I happening:
The more support Ron Paul has, the harder it will be for them to cheat, and the bigger the chances of them getting caught is. So get out there and spread the word for the good Doctor.


bingo

If Ron Paul has a large number supporting him, it would be real tough to manipulate the numbers. Crying foul after something has already run its course does nothing but give ammunition to the people who would LOVE to have a chance at making RP supporters look like a bunch of whiners and sore losers.

[quickmike]

quickmike, Paper ballots , marked with indellible ink, put into clear boxes, and counted in plain view. Is that too much to ask?

No its not too much to ask, but its not being done that way currently. So why dont you spend time trying to get that done instead of crying foul after the fact that you think its being manipulated? Not you personally, but you know what I mean.

Thats not a bad idea actually. But until that happens, no point in bitching about a rigged game after the game is over.

Thats the same thing as getting your windows of your car broken every night with rocks and complaining endlessly that its happening, instead of taking action and getting some bullet proof windows installed on your car. Proaction, not reaction is the name of the game.

[disinter]

But I have noticed a problem with some supporters of Ron Paul's around the net, everytime he doesn't finish as well as they thought he should have they cry foul.

Actually, the people that are "crying foul" are the folks at Vote Rescue. They do no support any candidate.

[disinter]

go for it. In the meantime we'll complain about you making ron paul supporters look like a buncha whiny bitches

You are the only one appearing to be a whiny bitch, to be quite honest.

[disinter]

quickmike, Paper ballots , marked with indellible ink, put into clear boxes, and counted in plain view. Is that too much to ask?

For paid shills, yes.

[FSP-Rebel]

It's unusual that some site that doesn't 'support' us would be so objectively in our favor.

[Ozwest]

quickmike, O.K. Pre-emptive action regarding ballot procedures may be the solution. But I can already hear the chorus of people chiming "whiners" "pussies" "don't upset the Republican Party". It is only natural for people to question a political process when it is not open and above-board. It would be worriesome if they did not.

[Lord Xar]

I would like to weigh in here.

On one hand we have those who bring up info in support of inconsistencies that seem to be appearing one time too many 'all the time'..

On the other hand, we have those who say "be quiet. Enough already, move on..."

So, as not "seeing" this information previously, I found it informative and disheartening.

Now the question begs... what happens next time there is an inconsistency? Then the next time? And EACH TIME Dr. Ron Paul finishes less that before. And each time, the 'weirdness' is the same weirdness as before?

So - if Ron Paul gets the big shaft when it matters, are we gonna be up and arms then? By then it will be too late.

Mabye next time they do "paper ballots" --- we should have a Ron Paul supporter handing out PENS at the entrance and say "do not use pencil to mark your ballot - it can be erased". To me, that is worth seeing this piece.

It is not enough to just say "hey, we get it.. it happens all the time." -- that is NOT enough, because it keeps on happening. We need to be aware of all of this and act accordingly NEXT time. For instance, passing out the pens (and make sure you have thousands handy)....

I think disinter did me a service by posting that information. I think it is VERY important people know that their vots that were made in "pencil" can be easily erased.

I am also curious too how Fred got second... after it was said "all texans ditched everyone else because they didn't show..... yet, fred didn't show and he was rewarded...."

Its okay if this happens next time.. because its okay, we need to get over it. It will just keep happening....

[Question_Authority]

Or are you just gonna bitch about it like a little pussy? If youre gonna do something about it.......... something real, something concrete, Ill support ya and back you 100%.



Relax dude. We're all on the same team. If this thread bothers you, move on to the next one. No need for nastiness here.

[quickmike]

I would like to weigh in here.

On one hand we have those who bring up info in support of inconsistencies that seem to be appearing one time too many 'all the time'..

On the other hand, we have those who say "be quiet. Enough already, move on..."

So, as not "seeing" this information previously, I found it informative and disheartening.

Now the question begs... what happens next time there is an inconsistency? Then the next time? And EACH TIME Dr. Ron Paul finishes less that before. And each time, the 'weirdness' is the same weirdness as before?

So - if Ron Paul gets the big shaft when it matters, are we gonna be up and arms then? By then it will be too late.

Mabye next time they do "paper ballots" --- we should have a Ron Paul supporter handing out PENS at the entrance and say "do not use pencil to mark your ballot - it can be erased". To me, that is worth seeing this piece.

It is not enough to just say "hey, we get it.. it happens all the time." -- that is NOT enough, because it keeps on happening. We need to be aware of all of this and act accordingly NEXT time. For instance, passing out the pens (and make sure you have thousands handy)....

I think disinter did me a service by posting that information. I think it is VERY important people know that their vots that were made in "pencil" can be easily erased.

I am also curious too how Fred got second... after it was said "all texans ditched everyone else because they didn't show..... yet, fred didn't show and he was rewarded...."

Its okay if this happens next time.. because its okay, we need to get over it. It will just keep happening....

Ok, so the question still remains. What are you going to do about it?

[quickmike]

Relax dude. We're all on the same team. If this thread bothers you, move on to the next one. No need for nastiness here.

I wasnt being nasty. I said if you have a game plan to do something concrete to solve this problem Ill back you 100 %

Thats not nasty at all. Im just saying that bitching about something and doing nothing about it makes someone look like a pussy.

Just stating the facts here.

[CasualApathy]

I wasnt being nasty. I said if you have a game plan to do something concrete to solve this problem Ill back you 100 %

Thats not nasty at all. Im just saying that bitching about something and doing nothing about it makes someone look like a pussy.

Just stating the facts here.

*Cough*

Own up, you were name calling :D

No sweat, we forgive! ;)

[Sean]

The only thing is someone could ask to see the ballots. Count out how many of each of candidates are in pen and how many are in pencil. If Ron Paul's are mostly in ink compared to the others you will have uncovered something suspicious. Anyways learn from this and not use pencil.

[quickmike]

*Cough*

Own up, you were name calling :D

No sweat, we forgive! ;)

No, I didnt name call. I questioned if he was going to bitch about it and do nothing like a little pussy. Thats a question. I didnt say he was a pussy.

Big difference there:D

[max]

Give it a rest people. Lets move on to the next event and kick some butt.

Being crybabies does not win votes people!!!

Everytime they fuck you and you say nothing.....you enbolden them to keep doing it. When they diebold us again with the REAL votes it will be too late to be "cry babies"

[quickmike]

Everytime they fuck you and you say nothing.....you enbolden them to keep doing it. When they diebold us again with the REAL votes it will be too late to be "cry babies"

Ok, so once again.................... I ask you ............. what are you going to do about it?

Ive asked this question 3 times in this thread, so far nobody answers.

0 for 3 folks

[Lord Xar]

Ok, so the question still remains. What are you going to do about it?

Well, isn't supporting Ron Paul and expressing his views about "doing something" -- you get enough people to "know about it", and you perhaps next time there is a straw poll, we can formulate a plan of attack.

I think just dismissing this is rather ignorant.

I mean, you may not like what is said and you can just say 'hey, I hear you but I feel its a very hard battle to win.." <-- that is much more appropriate than telling someone "get over it...." or "what you gonna do about it..."

Part of that post is to express dismay and perhaps initiate dialogue with those who happen to not know, or perhaps the poster is just venting... etc....

See.. do I need to validate to you what "My plan" is? I am asking serioulsy - not to create dissent or issue. I really want to know how I am suppose to appease you so that the original posters post is validated.

To me, i found validity in his post. You didn't. So you can either "not" post on this thread or just say your views in a non-demeaning way. Perhaps you are tired of hearing it, but seriously --- if there was an "easy" solution, do you think "teams" would have to be created to watch over this.. Shit, they do not allow third party bi-partisan groups to watch the count. To me, that is absolutely crazy..

what i think... here is what I think... I think the "people" need to be rerpresented by a group that will on hand at EVERY straw poll and election outlet to verify votes and this group will be funded by taxpayers dollars who work on behalf of taxpayers....

I think this is totally doable and something that should FOR SURE be in play....

[quickmike]

Well, isn't supporting Ron Paul and expressing his views about "doing something" -- you get enough people to "know about it", and you perhaps next time there is a straw poll, we can formulate a plan of attack.

I think just dismissing this is rather ignorant.

I mean, you may not like what is said and you can just say 'hey, I hear you but I feel its a very hard battle to win.." <-- that is much more appropriate than telling someone "get over it...." or "what you gonna do about it..."

Part of that post is to express dismay and perhaps initiate dialogue with those who happen to not know, or perhaps the poster is just venting... etc....

See.. do I need to validate to you what "My plan" is? I am asking serioulsy - not to create dissent or issue. I really want to know how I am suppose to appease you so that the original posters post is validated.

To me, i found validity in his post. You didn't. So you can either "not" post on this thread or just say your views in a non-demeaning way. Perhaps you are tired of hearing it, but seriously --- if there was an "easy" solution, do you think "teams" would have to be created to watch over this.. Shit, they do not allow third party bi-partisan groups to watch the count. To me, that is absolutely crazy..

what i think... here is what I think... I think the "people" need to be rerpresented by a group that will on hand at EVERY straw poll and election outlet to verify votes and this group will be funded by taxpayers dollars who work on behalf of taxpayers....

I think this is totally doable and something that should FOR SURE be in play....


Ok thats the first step............ a game plan. Whats next? Does anyone know how you would go about making it mandatory for representatives to be present at every straw poll?

[Ozwest]

The problem is it is not easy to solve. Particularly when you do not control the apparatus that sets the guidelines for these polls. Constructive dialogue as to what can be achieved "on the ground" at remaining polls would be a good start.

[max]

Ok, so once again.................... I ask you ............. what are you going to do about it?

Ive asked this question 3 times in this thread, so far nobody answers.

0 for 3 folks

i will do all that is within my limited power...which is too keep talking about it. Granted, it won't accomplish much....but to remain silent is an even weaker stratgegy...Ultimately, it's the RP campaign that will need to grow some balls and start attacking...not just on this issue...but also on the corruption of the other candidates

[quickmike]

i will do all that is within my limited power...which is too keep talking about it. Granted, it won't accomplish much....but to remain silent is an even weaker stratgegy...Ultimately, it's the RP campaign that will need to grow some balls and start attacking...not just on this issue...but also on the corruption of the other candidates

Ok so if it wont accomplish much, and the complaining just makes us look like babies, isnt that setting up a net loss of votes?

wont accomplish much + looking like sore losers = nothing gained

[LibertyEagle]

Why not ask the Vote in Sunshine people what they are doing. They are the ones supposedly addressing these issues.

[quickmike]

The problem is it is not easy to solve. Particularly when you do not control the apparatus that sets the guidelines for these polls. Constructive dialogue as to what can be achieved "on the ground" at remaining polls would be a good start.

There ya go Oz............. now youre thinking.

[lapi7]

I wasnt being nasty. I said if you have a game plan to do something concrete to solve this problem Ill back you 100 %

Thats not nasty at all. Im just saying that bitching about something and doing nothing about it makes someone look like a pussy.

Just stating the facts here.

Althought your basic premise is correct it certainly dosen't mean that it's practical.
And indeed righteous indignation is proper and is to be expected when those who wield power over others are abusive...

"stop bitching and do something..."

Yeah, great...perhaps that's what the Jews in Nazi concentration camps should have been told...

Did they have a right to complain and bitch...of course
Was there anything that they could have done about it...of course not
Did that make them 'pussies'?...of course not

It's not always as cut and dry and simplistic as you are attempting to make it appear...

The present establishment is VERY POWERFUL and "changing things" may not even be possible at this point...

Do people have a right to be enraged about this...you bet they do ! ! !

[quickmike]

Althought your basic premise is correct it certainly dosen't mean that it's practical.
And indeed righteous indignation is proper and is to be expected when those who wield power over others are abusive...

"stop bitching and do something..."

Yeah, great...perhaps that's what the Jews in Nazi concentration camps should have been told...

Did they have a right to complain and bitch...of course
Was there anything that they could have done about it...of course not
Did that make them 'pussies'?...of course not

It's not always as cut and dry and simplistic as you are attempting to make it appear...

The present establishment is VERY POWERFUL and "changing things" may not even be possible at this point...

Do people have a right to be enraged about this...you bet they do ! ! !

Sure the Jews could have done something. They could have right then and there turned on their captors and do whatever they could, biting clawing screaming, punching, grab a rock and throw it. After all, what did they have to lose? They were already sentenced to death right? Why not try and do something?

Just sit back and complain as they march you to the ovens and gas chambers?


psssshhhh

[CasualApathy]

Yeah, great...perhaps that's what the Jews in Nazi concentration camps should have been told...

Did they have a right to complain and bitch...of course
Was there anything that they could have done about it...of course not
Did that make them 'pussies'?...of course not.

In the interest of historical correctness;

Actually, many jews DID eventually fight the nazis during WWII. There were many armed uprisings:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005407


Between 1941 and 1943, underground resistance movements developed in approximately 100 ghettos in Nazi-occupied eastern Europe (about one-fourth of all ghettos), especially in Poland, Lithuania, Belorussia, and the Ukraine. Their main goals were to organize uprisings, break out of the ghettos, and join partisan units in the fight against the Germans.

The Jews knew that uprisings would not stop the Germans and that only a handful of fighters would succeed in escaping to join the partisans. Still, some Jews made the decision to resist.

[quickmike]

In the interest of historical correctness;

Actually, many jews DID eventually fight the nazis during WWII. There were many armed uprisings:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005407

there ya go........... they could do something.......... and some did.

I have nothing but respect for people like that.

[lapi7]

Sure the Jews could have done something. They could have right then and there turned on their captors and do whatever they could, biting clawing screaming, punching, grab a rock and throw it. After all, what did they have to lose? They were already sentenced to death right? Why not try and do something?

Just sit back and complain as they march you to the ovens and gas chambers?


psssshhhh

Pardon me...but are you out of your mind????
Perhaps you should read up a little more on the horrors of the Holocaust and the Nazis.

[lapi7]

No one is suggesting that anybody should just accept defeat...but there ARE indeed times when all the effort and courage that one (or any group) can muster is not always enough...

If it were as you say then no determined army or person with just cause would ever lose a battle let alone a war...

[Ozwest]

Determine the formats of the varying polls. Develop a specific strategy to suit the varying formats. Get volunteers "on the ground" to monitor proceedings. Contact other groups/orginizations with a vested interest in fair elections........

[quickmike]

Pardon me...but are you out of your mind????
Perhaps you should read up a little more on the horrors of the Holocaust and the Nazis.

Im out of my mind because I believe it was a good thing for the jews to stand up to the Nazis?????

I think you are the one who has lost his mind:confused:

[LibertyEagle]

lapi7,

Yes, we have the justification to be outraged over a lot of stuff. But, unless someone has a plan to DO something about it, all we are doing is taking our focus off of someone we CAN do. And that is getting the word out about Dr. Paul and his principles.

[quickmike]

lapi7,

Yes, we have the justification to be outraged over a lot of stuff. But, unless someone has a plan to DO something about it, all we are doing is taking our focus off of someone we CAN do. And that is getting the word out about Dr. Paul and his principles.

well said

[lapi7]

Im out of my mind because I believe it was a good thing for the jews to stand up to the Nazis?????

I think you are the one who has lost his mind:confused:

You're twisting my words...read my next post...

My relatives were killed in the massacre you blithering idoit...
Where where YOU pal???
I guess you could have stopped Hitler and all the Nazis BEFORE he ran amuck...is that what you're implying???
JACKASS!!!!!

[LibertyEagle]

What are you doing, lapi? Mike isn't against you.

[lapi7]

lapi7,

Yes, we have the justification to be outraged over a lot of stuff. But, unless someone has a plan to DO something about it, all we are doing is taking our focus off of someone we CAN do. And that is getting the word out about Dr. Paul and his principles.

Yes,
Agreed
We should all be doing all we can.
But to imply that when we do all things within our power and still don't win that we are all "PUSSIES" are the ravings of a madman...

[Lord Xar]

You're twisting my words...read my next post...

My relatives were killed in the massacre you blithering idoit...
Where where YOU pal???
I guess you could have stopped Hitler and all the Nazis BEFORE he ran amuck...is that what you're implying???
JACKASS!!!!!


lapi.. chill
mike.. chill

This is what we need to understand. This is a message board.. and when someone brings up a concern, we usually have a dialogue.. IF there are those who think its a waste of time, fine. But we are on a message board, and in no part does me sitting at my computer move my time from productive to non-productive... We are just discussing..

NOW, this friggin thread could of been HUGELY productive... but it got off course by throwing out "negative viges" and then saying "its not what I said..." - but the tone is already set.

We do not need thread police to dictate "what is, and what isn't important".

I offer support on threads I don't agree with and move on.

People will find their value in the endeavors they find important.

SO, with all of that said... we are moving way off track and misunderstanding people words. Now we are venturing into killings and survivors and the general intent of original poster is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

I know there are those who say "yeah, but DO SOMETHING... or LETS do something or GET A PLAN OF ACTION.." Cool, I am with you... but lets do that and suggest that OR EVEN move the discussion along in that direction in a positive way.

*********************

[lapi7]

Sure the Jews could have done something. They could have right then and there turned on their captors and do whatever they could, biting clawing screaming, punching, grab a rock and throw it. After all, what did they have to lose? They were already sentenced to death right? Why not try and do something?

Just sit back and complain as they march you to the ovens and gas chambers?


psssshhhh

Liberty,
To say the above quote to ANY JEW is the ultimate insult.
Were he to mearly utter such insanity at a JDL meeting he would never leave the building alive...

This would be like saying to the defeated Confederate Army "You didn't try hard enough you and General Lee are PUSSIES for not have trying harder...

They would most likely shoot him in his tracks.

The matter bears no further discussion

[quickmike]

You're twisting my words...read my next post...

My relatives were killed in the massacre you blithering idoit...
Where where YOU pal???
I guess you could have stopped Hitler and all the Nazis BEFORE he ran amuck...is that what you're implying???
JACKASS!!!!!

The fact that your relatives were there doesnt give you any monopoly on common sense.

secondly, I wasnt even born yet.

What im saying is that if I were there, I wouldnt just sit and wail and complain that the Nazis were mistreating me. I would stand up to them because even though I know I would lose, I was already handed a death sentence by them. I would go out fighting all the way. If that pisses you off, id say you have issues you need to deal with. Sounds like someone pissed in your cheerios today.

Im 25% Cherokee indian which means my ancestors were slaughtered and had their country taken from them, but I dont act like I have any more right to wisdom on the subject than anyone else. Using your holocaust ancestry as some kind of leverage in an argument just seems cheap to me, and has nothing to do with your argument.

[quickmike]

lapi.. chill
mike.. chill

This is what we need to understand. This is a message board.. and when someone brings up a concern, we usually have a dialogue.. IF there are those who think its a waste of time, fine. But we are on a message board, and in no part does me sitting at my computer move my time from productive to non-productive... We are just discussing..

NOW, this friggin thread could of been HUGELY productive... but it got off course by throwing out "negative viges" and then saying "its not what I said..." - but the tone is already set.

We do not need thread police to dictate "what is, and what isn't important".

I offer support on threads I don't agree with and move on.

People will find their value in the endeavors they find important.

SO, with all of that said... we are moving way off track and misunderstanding people words. Now we are venturing into killings and survivors and the general intent of original poster is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

I know there are those who say "yeah, but DO SOMETHING... or LETS do something or GET A PLAN OF ACTION.." Cool, I am with you... but lets do that and suggest that OR EVEN move the discussion along in that direction in a positive way.

*********************

Dude im ok. Im finding this conversation quite stimulating. No worries.:D

[lapi7]

lapi.. chill
mike.. chill

This is what we need to understand. This is a message board.. and when someone brings up a concern, we usually have a dialogue.. IF there are those who think its a waste of time, fine. But we are on a message board, and in no part does me sitting at my computer move my time from productive to non-productive... We are just discussing..

NOW, this friggin thread could of been HUGELY productive... but it got off course by throwing out "negative viges" and then saying "its not what I said..." - but the tone is already set.

We do not need thread police to dictate "what is, and what isn't important".

I offer support on threads I don't agree with and move on.

People will find their value in the endeavors they find important.

SO, with all of that said... we are moving way off track and misunderstanding people words. Now we are venturing into killings and survivors and the general intent of original poster is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

I know there are those who say "yeah, but DO SOMETHING... or LETS do something or GET A PLAN OF ACTION.." Cool, I am with you... but lets do that and suggest that OR EVEN move the discussion along in that direction in a positive way.

*********************

Okay...
Truce Mike...
We smokum peace pipe...okay?

[quickmike]

Okay...
Truce Mike...
We smokum peace pipe...okay?

As long as I get to pick whats in it:D

[Craig_R]

heres an idea, if you dont like the thread topic dont fuckin click on it. I swear half of you fuckers here are just here to fight with people.

[quickmike]

heres an idea, if you dont like the thread topic dont fuckin click on it. I swear half of you fuckers here are just here to fight with people.

Hey, it helps to hone our debating skills


Dont knock it till ya try it.;)

[CasualApathy]

heres an idea, if you dont like the thread topic dont fuckin click on it. I swear half of you fuckers here are just here to fight with people.

We can't agree on everything, and we shouldn't. But let's all agree that name-calling like this is very unprodictive.

We are all in this fight together.

[lapi7]

Hey, it helps to hone our debating skills


Dont knock it till ya try it.;)

Agreed...

Even the Founding Fathers were at it with one another all the time...

Hopefully we'll all still be here to continue in this arena of ideas come Feb. 2008 :D

[paulitics]

Sure the Jews could have done something. They could have right then and there turned on their captors and do whatever they could, biting clawing screaming, punching, grab a rock and throw it. After all, what did they have to lose? They were already sentenced to death right? Why not try and do something?

Just sit back and complain as they march you to the ovens and gas chambers?


psssshhhh


I'm going to have to sort of disagree there. The Jews and others did not have 100% foresight of their destiny, no one does. Even on the train to Auschwitz, did they know for certain that they would not make it back alive? Were they handed a prophetic textbook that said this is the camp where 1 million jews would be exterminated? They could have been told they were going to a labor camp, and thought the war would end before their demise. Sure the future looked bleak, but when you are under the control of psychotic madmen that can cut off all your toes and eat them for dinner, maybe you would rather be unnoticed. Even when faced with certain death, things can even be worse, and when you don't have weapons to fight back and zero chance of winning, well its like poking a bear with a stick. So I don't think its as simple as the 2 choices you gave...throwing rocks at the psychos, or complaining like wussies. Maybe a dear caught in the headlights is a more realistic reaction. I would think prayer was probably done more than anything else. You know there were survivors that lived to tell, some of the more fit or intelligent, or just by random luck.

[CasualApathy]

This discussion reminds me of the old poem by Martin Niemöller:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

[Jared Callanan]

I think the bottom line is we are going to hold ourselves down by running around preaching about this and crying about this. The Ron Paul campaign and grassroots supporters got a lot of bad press coverage because of Jim Condit (voterfraud.org?) and because our faction of supporters ran around crying foul following the announcement of the vote tally. It didn't help us, it hurt us, and Ron Paul and his campaign want nothing to do with Jim Condit for a reason; we should see this and understand there is a good reason for it.

Should we sit around and say, "voter fraud happens, we are just going to do nothing about it." Absolutely not. But we shouldn't start complaining and crying following the results thus making ourselves look like a bunch of cry baby bitches which is exactly what happened following the Iowa Straw Poll and to some extent the Texas Straw Poll although we certainly didn't have the internet backlash of bloggers laughing at us like they did after the Iowa Straw Poll.

Voter Fraud is going to be a difficult issue to put forward to the electorate because most of the electorate doesn't believe it happens as often and at such a large level as say Jim Condit, who I am pretty sure believes voter fraud has happened in every election since 1882. So you are up against a conspiracy theory-laden issue that most of the electorate will write you off as a whack job if you decide it's the issue to push.

It's my belief that a huge majority of the electorate doesn't believe that voter fraud happens in mass quantities, therefore it doesn't effect their vote, and therefore it isn't a winning issue to push because the electorate just isn't going to care. It's a high risk low reward issue. Very similiar to what people are saying in another thread about the 9/11 truthers, it's better to remain silent and get the only man in office that has a chance to do something about it rather than hurting the candidate by pushing the issue.

But I wouldn't even go that far to do absolutely nothing.. What about some type of group of Ron Paul poll watchers who can monitor the polls and make sure nothing wrong is going on? Obviously this wont help behind the scenes, but it certainly would help for voters voting multiple times, etc.. It would be something that could help against possible fraud thus hurting Ron Paul's chances, it's happening before and during the voting so we don't come off as cry babies when we complaing following the vote results, and we can do this monitoring without running around with Jim Condit sueing the state republican partys and making us look babdly.

I know it's not an iron clad idea but I haven't heard anything all that much better.

- Jared

Sorry about the punctuation, spelling, et al. it's way too early in the morning.

[Question_Authority]

I wasnt being nasty. I said if you have a game plan to do something concrete to solve this problem Ill back you 100 %

Thats not nasty at all. Im just saying that bitching about something and doing nothing about it makes someone look like a pussy.

Just stating the facts here.

Ummmm....that's not only what you said. And those are not FACTS, those are your OPINIONS. You were in attack mode, dude. Just own up to that.

Maybe this person doesn't know exactly what to do about it. Maybe he was posting it here to get ideas and we could band together to figure out a plan. Try to think of this as a TEAM effort instead of demanding someone DO SOMETHING just because they brought up something that bothers them.

Just sayin'.

Anyway, I am going to contact the campaign directly and let them know how I feel. See if they have any ideas. I think at this point the campaign should get involved because they can contact the higher-ups at the GOP. Then I will write letters to all of the major newspapers in TX.

If we cannot stand up against fraud perpetrated by an organization during the primary season, how will we stand up against fraud at the government level? That will be my first question to the campaign.

That's what I am doing.

[wgadget]

It seems that getting lots of views of the video may be doing some good. It was the number one Digg story.

There are hundreds of comments attached to the youtube video, and even people who don't support RP are outraged.

I just think it would be nice to have ANY MAINSTREAM MEDIA report on this. But we get the usual silence. I think THAT is the travesty here. I believe that the more people see these GOP shenanigans (from the general population), the more they will side for RP. But that's just my opinion....

And it has been said as well that it's possible that it wasn't only RP who got the shaft. The whole crookedness of the thing makes the GOP look bad and could open up people's eyes to RP's message of truth, rule of law, and honesty in government.

[Ninja Homer]

According to Capitol Annex an exit poll conducted by Vote Rescue reveals some discrepancies:

http://capitolannex.com/2007/09/03/exit-polls-suggust-gop-straw-poll-had-discrepancies-ron-paul-supporters-turned-away/

Comment on that page:

#1) Yes, Ron Paul supporters were turned away after having pre-registered online with the Texas GOP. The video is clear about this. I can also attest that some (I do not know how many) people entered the convention center after the 10am cutoff. The standard for refusing entry was not uniformly applied.

#2) I personally served as the Ron Paul campaign’s poll watcher during the entire voting process in the Saturday straw poll. I entered the voting room 15 minutes prior to the beginning of the vote, and did not leave until immediately after the final numbers were tabulated, confirmed, and given to the program emcees. And I’d like to comment on the above…

“Another delegate/voter who came over to talk with us heard the first gentleman’s comment and, with a look of dismay, realized that she, too,had selected a pencil–and had used it. She said, “I can’t believe I was so stupid!”…In hindsight, it seemed peculiar to us that pencils were provided to voters at all since the Tarrant Party Republican Party Chair, Stephanie Klick, had told one of Ron Paul’s supporters that permanent ink pens would be used for marking the ballots”

None of the voters were forced to use pencils. They were initially provided along with pens to all delegates, on four rows of tables that were some 30 feet of total length. What was amazing to me, was that no less than half a dozen delegates sheepishly approached the Texas GOP staff with a ballot in one hand, admitting that they had marked their ballot for the wrong candidate and needed a new ballot. There may well have been others who made such a silly mistake, and were fortunate enough to have used pencils so they could erase any trace of their error. Having personally watched most of the voters and seen a number of the ballots - I can attest that the majority of the votes were cast by pen anyhow. However, once one of the delegates (who identified himself as a member of VoteRescue) raised the issue, the pencils were removed from the tables.

“What we do know is that there were many vulnerabilities in the”chain of custody” of the official ballots from the point at which the election ended until votes were being counted; and that neither media, nor any citizen observors [sic] with videocameras (or otherwise) were allowed in the room where counting took place. Our videographers Terry Melton, Kathleen Winn, and Gregory Gory, as well as any other interested parties,had to satisfy themselves with quick glances through small windows in the doors of the counting room.”

None of this is true.. The official ballots were placed in double-locked metal ballot boxes that were under watch and armed guard by Fort Worth police officers who had been instructed to not leave the ballots. Townhall.com media representatives were allowed inside during the vote counting and videotpaed the entire process. Observers from any of the candidate’s campaigns were allowed to come in and watch the vote process, permitted to stop and ask questions, and also allowed to walk among and inspect the 10 teams of 3 vote counters (30 total), who were unpaid volunteers from around the state, and which included at least one staffer from a GOP State Representative’s office. Both the Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter campaigns had poll watchers in the room during the entire ballot counting process, and were able to verify all steps of the process, and all vote totals.

The votes were removed from the locked ballot boxes in front of the police guards and poll watchers. They were distributed equally to the 10 groups of volunteer counters. Each group of counters had one person read off the name marked on the ballot, while the other two people made a tick mark on a sheet of paper next to that candidate’s name. The reader than sorted that ballot into a stack unique to that own candidate on their table. At the end of this process, the tallies were compared on the two sheets, and then the stacks were counted one-by-one to verify accuracy against the two identical tallies. One tally was then handed to one representative from the Texas GOP, and the other to Stephanie Glick of Tarrant County. All ballots were then placed inside a manila envelope, sealed, and a white label signed by each of the three volunteers was affixed over the envelope flap. The 10 tallies were confirmed by both campaign observers, members of the Texas GOP, and Stephanie Glick.

Several of the unpaid volunteers made mention to me personally that they are also general election poll watchers in their home counties, and are intimately familiar with the ballot security process. None raised any doubts or expressed concerns to me.

[The Only Woj]

exit poll suggests not everyone who voted participated in the exit poll!

[speciallyblend]

I'm sure we can all multi-task.If there is proof that Texas Gop was not honest,then we move forward on it and continue our fights eleswhere.You have to hold people accountable.

[blazin_it_alwyz]

Ok, so once again.................... I ask you ............. what are you going to do about it?

Ive asked this question 3 times in this thread, so far nobody answers.

0 for 3 folks

dude I'm sorry, but whenever I see talk like this happening, you are the first one to jump in the thread and tell everyone to stop bitching. What, do you expect us to keep our mouth shut? I gather that if everyone in the United States were all bitching, we wouldn't be the kind of problems we're in today.

The things that have been happening at these polls are pretty fucked up, and your rather tasteless comments are uncalled for, and AS MUCH counter-productive as the people you criticize.

Like I said before, which you specifically didn't respond to, is that, are you going to keep saying this every singe straw poll we get bullshitted out of? Stop the "What are you going to do about it talk", I GET IT, I got it the 6th time you said it.

But answer this question for me. When we get bullshitted 10 more times, and when we get bullshitted in the primaries, are you going to keep saying the same things your saying now? Answer me that before you continue to keep your "0 to 3 scorecard".

I also tend to think that a lot of problems solved, are started by people bitching and complaining, and that transcends into something greater than that.

I also tend to think that whatever bitching I could possibly do on this forum, IS MUCH BETTER than your tasteless name calling and slandering of your/our own Ron Paul supporter community. Seriously dude that ******* pisses me off, save that for another candidates supporters.

The ultimate form of counter-productivity is the putting down of people who are supposed to be working together, and if I came into this forum and this was the first post I ever saw, I would never come back to this place, so think about what your really saying before you tell anyone else that they are PUSSIES and to just shut up and do something about it :rolleyes:

As it stands right now, whether right or wrong, what I'm doing is a lot more productive than what your doing right now.

If you really feel that this talk is counter-productive, then maybe you need to set the example, or maybe lead by example, my man ;)

[Revolution9]

Ok so if it wont accomplish much, and the complaining just makes us look like babies, isnt that setting up a net loss of votes?

wont accomplish much + looking like sore losers = nothing gained

Yeah..Yer a real tough guy not complaining. Yer a real winner for not bitchng.. That is what yer telling us..right??

:cool:
Randy

[Revolution9]

there ya go........... they could do something.......... and some did.

I have nothing but respect for people like that.

So they did something and you have respect and the vote folks do something and they are whining pussies.. You may need to reboot to clear out the valence inequity in the logic circuits.

Randy

[Revolution9]

Hey, it helps to hone our debating skills


Dont knock it till ya try it.;)

Piss off pussy and stop whinng is not debate "skills".

Randy

[JMann]

Yea, stick your head in the sand and let them roll over you with corruption. That'll win the election!


When a team/fans complain about a call that 'cost them the game', I say score more points. When someone complains about voter irregularities that 'cost them the election', I say get more votes. Shit happens, sometimes it helps you sometimes it doesn't, so you better work you ass off to win by a large margin so that no irregularity will matter. Complaining gets you no where. See President Gore, that man and his supporters are still complaining.

[ghemminger]

test

[Revolution9]

When a team/fans complain about a call that 'cost them the game', I say score more points. When someone complains about voter irregularities that 'cost them the election', I say get more votes. Shit happens, sometimes it helps you sometimes it doesn't, so you better work you ass off to win by a large margin so that no irregularity will matter. Complaining gets you no where. See President Gore, that man and his supporters are still complaining.

This is not sports. It s about being in charge of the most powerful arsenal known in hstory.

Your President Gore analogy is off the mark too. But it was a good exaample that this does occur in regards to ths office.. 2004 as well.

Randy

[JMann]

This is not sports. It s about being in charge of the most powerful arsenal known in hstory.

Your President Gore analogy is off the mark too. But it was a good exaample that this does occur in regards to ths office.. 2004 as well.

Randy

You missed the point. Complaining get you no where. Paul seems to have attracted supporters that whine and complain. A different breed of people that I familiar with. Work harder. There is no doubt that Republicans and Democrats play fast a loose with election laws. I'm sure this has been going on since John Adams. The point is, work harder and get more votes so that you can win by a large enough margin to overcome any irregularity.

I just don't understand this cry baby attitude of this isn't fair, they cheat, blah blah blah blah. This reminds me so much of whinny little liberals types. Children complain, adults act.

[blazin_it_alwyz]

.....The point is, work harder and get more votes so that you can win by a large enough margin to overcome any irregularity.....

Tell that to the engineer of the Diebold machines who testified to Congress, saying that any amount of votes could be skewed 51 to 49 percent, in anyones favor, and it would go undetected, unless you were to go into the machine and check the source code, or do a hard count of the votes.

I'm confident that Ron Paul will get a lot of votes and win with our help, but a 95% of the votes going to Ron Paul is unrealistic. Like I said, I'm not really for crying about this too much, but by the same token, we can't just dismiss this.

It's common probability. If we get bullshitted on the very first 3 straw polls, what is the probability of us getting bullshitted on the 4th one? If that one goes through, how about the 5th one? And you can bring that all the way to the final election. We need to be focused about getting votes and supports, TRUE, but we also need to be brainstorming about how to prematurely stop it from happening in the next poll.

Because that is really what the fuss is all about. It's not so much the Iowa Poll, or the Texas Poll. Those polls are over with, they are done. But the next poll is right around the corner, and history is doomed to repeat itself if nothing is done to change it. All I'm saying.

[dsentell]

We have to have a balance here.

We definitely do not want to look like sore losers or cry babies.

HOWEVER, keeping quiet and ignoring the problem is acceptance of the situation. I, for one, am not willing to just lie down and let them walk all over me.

As Ron Paul supporters, I think we need to stick to our efforts to get Dr. Paul elected.

Then, as concerned voters (not as RP supporters) we need to contact all voting rights organizations and push them to strive for justice on all voting matters, straw polls, primaries, and general elections. As "concerned voters", lets try to get someone else to take care of this.

[blazin_it_alwyz]

We have to have a balance here.

We definitely do not want to look like sore losers or cry babies.

HOWEVER, keeping quiet and ignoring the problem is acceptance of the situation. I, for one, am not willing to just lie down and let them walk all over me.

As Ron Paul supporters, I think we need to stick to our efforts to get Dr. Paul elected.

Then, as concerned voters (not as RP supporters) we need to contact all voting rights organizations and push them to strive for justice on all voting matters, straw polls, primaries, and general elections. As "concerned voters", lets try to get someone else to take care of this.

I couldn't agree more.

[JMann]

Those polls are over with, they are done.[/B] But the next poll is right around the corner, and history is doomed to repeat itself if nothing is done to change it. All I'm saying.

My point is that this has been going on since the beginning of time. You are not going to prevent voter irregularities. Dead people vote in every election. You are not going to stop that from happening but what you can do is work ever day to make sure you candidate gets more votes than his opponent. Pretty simple really.

As far as Diebold goes, I have always thought that it was stupid to go to any kind of electronic voting. You actually have idiots that want internet voting. This movement came from that disgraceful behavior of Algore down in Florida trying to have the courts put him into office and complaining that his supporters where too stupid to figure out how to vote. I'm happy where I live we have a scanning system and it seems to work very well.

[maggiebott]

I'm with blazin and think we need to outwit them before we are robbed at the next straw poll. The dirty tactics being used with diebolt and the disturbing behaviour in Texas has to be stopped.

[ghemminger]

On more media out let to "AIR" our gievences Ron Paul Radio....


This week is a test run...so I'm happy with just a few listeners - my kids almost set fire to the house while I was on the "internet Air" - I really enjoyed my tirade against Sean Hannitty and the other Neocon Talk Show hosts...I want to make that a permanent thing - so please post any dirt - pleeeeeese....

I will be discussing the Texas Straw Poll Wed. and the USC event next week..

We are still working on taking calls - write now we are working through the chat feature on DJ's site...

I'm vacilitating between a NEWs show or an opinion show or maybe a combintation....also need some good "hooks" or taglines...and want to run some FREE commercials for ya'll.....so please submit....thks!

[quickmike]

So they did something and you have respect and the vote folks do something and they are whining pussies.. You may need to reboot to clear out the valence inequity in the logic circuits.

Randy

My point is randy, theyre not doing anything. compaining about something and not taking action is in no way "doing something"

thats my only point. its not that complicated an argument im making.

this is my last post on the subject and if you dont get what im saying by now, you never will.

[LibertyEagle]

Here is what I notice...

We start running around screaming there is vote fraud, before we even know the facts. A full bus load of delegates were not allowed to vote; non-RP delegates were snuck in the back door (video to follow soon), yet I never saw this video. Did you? Then, we saw a clip showing the front page of the online app said 10:00. Next, someone else who is a Meetup Coord. in the Dallas area, comes on here and says that no, there was no bus that had arrived late. There were only a handful of RP delegates who arrived late and couldn't vote. We also heard near the beginning from another person, that there WAS a statement in the packet saying 10 was the cutoff time.

All while this was happening and the story morphing, RP supporters were off on message boards claiming VOTE FRAUD.

Don't you guys think we should at least get the FACTS straight before we haul off claiming fraud? The fact that we do not, is what makes us look like poor sports, like crybabies, etc. and we fall right into the hands of those who are doing everything they can to discredit this campaign.

Let's find out what happened and figure out what we are going to do in the future to make sure it doesn't happen again. In the meantime, let's not make claims until we have all the facts. Remember the story about the Boy who Cried Wolf? We damn sure want people to listen to us when we have our acts together with real evidence. They will not, if we continue acting like this.

[LibertyEagle]

So they did something and you have respect and the vote folks do something and they are whining pussies.. You may need to reboot to clear out the valence inequity in the logic circuits.

Randy

I would think that for people who have been in the business of trying to combat vote fraud for so long, they would have some knowledge about what they are doing. I would certainly think they might be smarter than to drag a candidate's name into their activities on one of the largest radio shows in the state, days before a straw poll. I would also think that if they wanted to initiate legal action to stop the scanners, or other voting machines, they would have done it before 2 days before the vote.

It was like they were surprised that Diebold equipment was being used. It shouldn't have been a surprise. All you have to do is go look it up on their state gov website. What is their plan for the primaries? Are they trying to get the individual states to overturn their use of voting machines, NOW? Or, are they going to wait until the night before and file a lawsuit?

I dunno, Randy. It kinda seems to me like Romper Room.

[blazin_it_alwyz]

this is my last post on the subject and if you dont get what im saying by now, you never will.

alrighty then ;)

[Jared Callanan]

Randy,

You have just posted two to three messages that have essentially added nothing yp this conversation except for name calling. Atleast Mike had an underlying message that he hit a home run with.

Tough guy? Pussy? It had nothing to do with the first seven pages of this thread. I think the simple point here is this: if we are going to fo something about this supposed voter fraud lets do it! If we are just going sit around these forums spewing cpnspiracy theories lets shut up and stop giving the campaign a black eye.

- Sent fron my iPhone
The revolution will not be televised



Yeah..Yer a real tough guy not complaining. Yer a real winner for not bitchng.. That is what yer telling us..right??

:cool:
Randy

[JMann]

Some people complain when they don't win. That is probably what their parents taught them and they don't know any other way. Others look to the future and figure out how to better prepare themselves the next time.