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View Full Version : Do you practice true freedom or just pretend to?




rbu
09-08-2008, 11:36 AM
Either you do or you don't, the answer lies within yourself.

I see too many posts here denouncing anyone and anything to do with those who want the truth about 9/11. The problem with this is you were most likely brought here by RP's message of freedom. Freedom is not two-way street, either we all flow in the same direction or there's going to be wrecks.

A truly free human doesn't care what others think or do as long as they aren't harming anyone physically. You trying to control what others think or do is only your ignorance of what true freedom means. Just because someone thinks a different way than you doesn't give you the right to ridicule them. Being a true liberty loving being allows an understanding of alternate views and the practice of such. It's like being mad at your neighbor because he doesn't keep his grass cut. He should have the freedom to do whatever he wishes with his yard without you whining about it.

Freedom doesn't have clauses that benefit you and you only. Ask yourself the following question and understand what it means to practice true freedom.

Do you practice true freedom or just pretend to?

Kade
09-08-2008, 11:38 AM
Either you do or you don't, the answer lies within yourself.

I see too many posts here denouncing anyone and anything to do with those who want the truth about 9/11. The problem with this is you were most likely brought here by RP's message of freedom. Freedom is not two-way street, either we all flow in the same direction or there's going to be wrecks.

A truly free human doesn't care what others think or do as long as they aren't harming anyone physically. You trying to control what others think or do is only your ignorance of what true freedom means. Just because someone thinks a different way than you doesn't give you the right to ridicule them. Being a true liberty loving being allows an understanding of alternate views and the practice of such. It's like being mad at your neighbor because he doesn't keep his grass cut. He should have the freedom to do whatever he wishes with his yard without you whining about it.

Freedom doesn't have clauses that benefit you and you only. Ask yourself the following question and understand what it means to practice true freedom.

Do you practice true freedom or just pretend to?

Outstanding post my friend. And I will answer the question for you: Not on this forum.

98% of this board pretends to.... I can start naming names and naming instances.

I will comment further when these idiots show up, if they do.

nullvalu
09-08-2008, 11:40 AM
Holy crap, does a thread like this have to come up once a day now? How about discussing 9/11 truth over at Jesse Ventura Forums?

We are mostly adults here and hopefully realize there's a time & place for everything. If we are to succeed we must be tactical. Shouting "9/11 was an inside job" from rooftops will do nothing to further the cause of LIBERTY.

angelatc
09-08-2008, 11:42 AM
. You trying to control what others think......

Irony ...............

A. Havnes
09-08-2008, 11:43 AM
I think the OP made a very good point. The chaos comes from when we let these differences escalate into huge and sometimes personal arguments. I don't mind participating in or reading debates about 9/11, but once it starts escalating, then the topic is no longer appropriate. If we can be civilized in our discussions, then I think 9/11 is a very important topic.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
09-08-2008, 11:44 AM
The only person with 100% integrity in the history of mankind was murdered 2000 years ago.

Nobody but him practiced true freedom. But there are others who are truly trying and those who are merely talking heads.

Theocrat
09-08-2008, 11:46 AM
Either you do or you don't, the answer lies within yourself.

I see too many posts here denouncing anyone and anything to do with those who want the truth about 9/11. The problem with this is you were most likely brought here by RP's message of freedom. Freedom is not two-way street, either we all flow in the same direction or there's going to be wrecks.

A truly free human doesn't care what others think or do as long as they aren't harming anyone physically. You trying to control what others think or do is only your ignorance of what true freedom means. Just because someone thinks a different way than you doesn't give you the right to ridicule them. Being a true liberty loving being allows an understanding of alternate views and the practice of such. It's like being mad at your neighbor because he doesn't keep his grass cut. He should have the freedom to do whatever he wishes with his yard without you whining about it.

Freedom doesn't have clauses that benefit you and you only. Ask yourself the following question and understand what it means to practice true freedom.

Do you practice true freedom or just pretend to?(Emphasis mine)

I find your statement hilariously ironic.

FindLiberty
09-08-2008, 11:46 AM
Interesting. Two never-ending topic discussions at once, in the same thread! What would Jesus do about 9/11?

Is "...all and let God sort it out" an acceptable answer?

Zolah
09-08-2008, 11:47 AM
Should I restrict my own thoughts to comply with your definition of freedom or would you permit me to express them as I wish? I have the right to whine about my neighbours garden if I want, and express this to him - but I can't force him to do anything about it, that would obviously infringe on his freedom to do as he wishes with his property. But I can ridicule anyone I want for any reason I wish, that doesn't infringe upon their freedoms, and is certainly within the bounds of my own freedom to do so. Unless I missed the memo where it was decided that the definition of 'freedom' meant you can't be rude if you want to be.

SLSteven
09-08-2008, 11:50 AM
A truly free human doesn't care what others think or do as long as they aren't harming anyone physically....Just because someone thinks a different way than you doesn't give you the right to ridicule them.

A bit inconsistent in your argument. But I do agree we should avoid personal ridicule.

Kade
09-08-2008, 11:51 AM
The only person with 100% integrity in the history of mankind was murdered 2000 years ago.

Nobody but him practiced true freedom. But there are others who are truly trying and those who are merely talking heads.

Example #2.

Kade
09-08-2008, 11:52 AM
(Emphasis mine)

I find your statement hilariously ironic.

Example #3.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
09-08-2008, 11:54 AM
Example #2.

Example #1 .

JAlli41
09-08-2008, 11:58 AM
this seems to be the catch 22 when it comes to the concept of individual freedom, we all know that we're stronger together than we are apart, a united push for freedom is stronger than 2000 individuals screaming for their own cause, yet once we get together people all of a sudden start saying" wait a minute im part of a collectivist mindset, this is exactly what I was against in the first place." we've really gotta get our stuff together if we want to get anywhere in the next few years... As for the 911 stuff, adults disagree and thats ok, its time for us all to look beyond our differences of opinion on things, especially since we have WAY more in common than we have apart.

rbu
09-08-2008, 11:58 AM
A bit inconsistent in your argument. But I do agree we should avoid personal ridicule.
Duly noted ;)

Kade
09-08-2008, 12:02 PM
Example #1 .

angelatc was Example #1.

You can give me examples of being against liberty, and I will concede the point, aight' J-freak?

constituent
09-08-2008, 12:05 PM
through the looking glass.

Kade
09-08-2008, 12:07 PM
through the looking glass.

There is no looking glass. There is freedom, and there is a man reminding "you" that you are a free.

On this forum, we have people who think the economy is the epitome of freedom.

constituent
09-08-2008, 12:13 PM
There is no looking glass. There is freedom, and there is a man reminding "you" that you are a free.

On this forum, we have people who think the economy is the epitome of freedom.

lol, indeed.


[i was about to ask if he both approved of my freedom to move as i please and another's freedom to protect their land with a gun. i think you covered it though.]

ARealConservative
09-08-2008, 12:26 PM
I want to maximize freedom while also defending property rights, personal responsibility, and the rule of law.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
09-08-2008, 12:39 PM
angelatc was Example #1.

You can give me examples of being against liberty, and I will concede the point, aight' J-freak?

Can I be a Jesus freak if I don't believe he is the redeemer or son of god?

There, that's my example. You are a self-absorbed phony who forms conclusions based on inconclusive data to reinforce your beliefs. Been validated today?

Theocrat
09-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Can I be a Jesus freak if I don't believe he is the redeemer or son of god?

There, that's my example. You are a self-absorbed phony who forms conclusions based on inconclusive data to reinforce your beliefs. Been validated today?

Don't worry. Kade gets owned everyday he's on these forums. He's a mental sado-masochist.

Kade
09-08-2008, 12:51 PM
Don't worry. Kade gets owned everyday he's on these forums. He's a mental sado-masochist.

"Owned" is highly subjective. In reality, I fall deeper into my despair at the realization that I truly am surrounded by idiots in this world.


That there are very few people with enough brain cells to argue or debate on my level here is of relative little worry to me, I will be a bit bothered when one of you actually makes me stop and think for a second...

It would take a miracle. Start praying Theo.

Kade
09-08-2008, 12:53 PM
I want to maximize freedom while also defending property rights, personal responsibility, and the rule of law.





*with exceptions in cases where one might fall under these categories: Women, Gays, non-Christians, Liberals, or Immigrants.

pacelli
09-08-2008, 01:21 PM
What would Jesus do about 9/11?


If God was President during 9/11, I'd think he would have killed every single male residing in the country that was responsible for the attacks.

As far as the OP- it's impossible to say whether people on the forum practice true freedom. We don't have an insight into behavior from text.

Theocrat
09-08-2008, 01:22 PM
"Owned" is highly subjective. In reality, I fall deeper into my despair at the realization that I truly am surrounded by idiots in this world.


That there are very few people with enough brain cells to argue or debate on my level here is of relative little worry to me, I will be a bit bothered when one of you actually makes me stop and think for a second...

It would take a miracle. Start praying Theo.

Your level of reasoning is about as impressive as the stench of garbage mixed with the rawest fish from a harlot's lips after she gargles spit.

Kade
09-08-2008, 01:24 PM
Your level of reasoning is about as impressive as the stench of garbage mixed with the rawest fish from a harlot's lips after she gargles spit.

Well she birthed you, so I would say that was a pretty good insult.

constituent
09-08-2008, 01:34 PM
If God was President during 9/11, I'd think he would have killed every single male residing in the country that was responsible for the attacks.


Wrong. God's an equal opportunity killer.

ARealConservative
09-08-2008, 01:38 PM
*with exceptions in cases where one might fall under these categories: Women, Gays, non-Christians, Liberals, or Immigrants.

these fall under the rule of law.

I'm not going to pretend the constitution says something it never said for political expedience.

Kade
09-08-2008, 01:49 PM
Wrong. God's an equal opportunity killer.

He/She/It seemed to be pretty chill when it came to slaves in the Bible though... they even got to live during many of the massacres...


Those Midian Virgins though... poor little girls.

Kade
09-08-2008, 01:50 PM
these fall under the rule of law.

I'm not going to pretend the constitution says something it never said for political expedience.

Yes, rule of law. Make sure those that have differing opinions and behaviors over the majority are punished for them. Make sure the moral fabric of society is intact, so that we may flourish in a stew of anti-pluralism.

ARealConservative
09-08-2008, 01:53 PM
Yes, rule of law. Make sure those that have differing opinions and behaviors over the majority are punished for them. Make sure the moral fabric of society is intact, so that we may flourish in a stew of anti-pluralism.

Since government doesn't grant rights and is fairy poor at protecting them, I learn to pick my battles wisely.

Kade
09-08-2008, 02:01 PM
Since government doesn't grant rights and is fairy poor at protecting them, I learn to pick my battles wisely.

Who grants rights?

ARealConservative
09-08-2008, 02:15 PM
Who grants rights?

I do.

libertea
09-08-2008, 02:46 PM
I pretend. I pay my taxes.

priest_of_syrinx
09-08-2008, 02:47 PM
Freedom is not two-way street, either we all flow in the same direction or there's going to be wrecks.

Okay, I'll ignore that you forgot the word "a" before "two way street," but what is this sentence supposed to mean? That freedom = everybody doing the same thing? :confused:

Kludge
09-08-2008, 02:48 PM
libertarianism is not a way to live life.

Theocrat
09-08-2008, 04:02 PM
Yes, rule of law. Make sure those that have differing opinions and behaviors over the majority are punished for them. Make sure the moral fabric of society is intact, so that we may flourish in a stew of anti-pluralism.

Kade, you truly are an ignorant person. The whole reason of having laws is to prohibit certain opinions and behaviors from society, like cannibalism, pedophilia, and homicide. Each of those behaviors (including others) are immoral (sin), and thus, they should be diminished as much as possible from any freedom-loving society. There is no freedom in legislating sinful behavior; that is tyranny, which leads to the perdition of men.


Who grants rights?

God. You should try reading the Declaration of Independence and the writings of the Founders, sometime.

trey4sports
09-08-2008, 04:10 PM
most subdivisions have grass height requirements so you can force him to cut his grass :D

Kade
09-09-2008, 08:15 AM
God. You should try reading the Declaration of Independence and the writings of the Founders, sometime.

You sitting here saying that your god "grants rights" has the same affect as me saying the a block of cheese grants rights.

Nothing you say or do can change it. A block of cheese has granted you rights.

Bow to your god, your creator, your inspiration:

http://homepages.ius.edu/SRICKARD/cheese2.jpg

I bow to no one, and I grant my own rights.

KenInMontiMN
09-09-2008, 08:28 AM
Well, I can't seem to shed my early childhood toilet training imposed on me by this fascist authoritarian couple that warped my early childhood development, so I guess I have a ways to go yet. ;)

Given a few beers and a thick stand of trees for some privacy, though, anything is possible.

By the way, if you're in an anti-authoritarian mood this morning, visit here and make your views known, and vote the posts up and down, regarding all the stormtroopers earning the overtime in St.Paul last week. Some local officials have clearly come out against the preventative tactics employed, but obviously those in direct control went with the hysterical 'better safe than sorry' choice over the 1st amendment in terms of marching orders to the troops.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/28035649.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD 3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUl

Conza88
09-09-2008, 09:35 AM
"Owned" is highly subjective. In reality, I fall deeper into my despair at the realization that I truly am surrounded by idiots in this world.

That there are very few people with enough brain cells to argue or debate on my level here is of relative little worry to me, I will be a bit bothered when one of you actually makes me stop and think for a second...

It would take a miracle. Start praying Theo.


http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/funny-pictures-cat-greets-dog-at-door.jpg

;)



libertarianism is not a way to live life.

It's not meant to be. It deals with what should be law. Kind of like when people automatically get all screwy when you go with the "rights" issue. i.e That child has no right to another persons property. The Child doesn't actually have a "right" to be fed. As I said previously; retards get mixed up between "rights" & "morality". ;)

MelissaWV
09-09-2008, 09:42 AM
I do what I want to do, with full knowledge and appreciation of potential/likely consequences. I work to reduce or eliminate consequences that seem unjust. I take action within reason, knowing that rushing out with guns blazing is a great way to make sure my part in any revolt is a very short one.

Take that as you will. You're free to do so :)

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 09:44 AM
It really is scary. I honestly believe there are more sheeple in our movement per/capita than without. Ron Paul has simply taken the place of Obama or McCain and become a demiGod for many. I LOVE Ron Paul, but I do not worship him, nor do I believe nor follow his every edict. I have a mind, and I like to use it.

Think about the typical Ron Paul supporter conversation. 2 people meet. First they brag about all the rally's they attended, all the photos with Ron Paul they have. Then they talk about the Fed, sound money, how Obama is a Socialist and McCain is not much better. They name-drop Jefferson and pull out a dollar bill and call it funny money, they pull out their Liberty dollar or swoon over the one someone else has, all the while laughing and back-slapping. It turns to 91 truth and the discussion gets heated. Oh my gosh, the pods on the bottom are like so obvious. And what about building 7!! Things finally digress to talking about all the organizations they belong to and when Ron Paul will hold the next rally so they can talk about the same old stuff over and over and over again.

But nothing is being DONE. We need to be people of action, not talk. We need to be people of deep thought, not surface-level rhetoric.

Ron Paul has said over and over again that this is OUR revolution. Yet so many insist on making it Ron Paul's revolution. If we want to make Ron Paul happy, we need to change. We're still being sheeple, just following a different leader. It has to stop.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-09-2008, 09:45 AM
I pretend.

Offline, I really search and try to signup to all of the gov programs I'm eligible for.

Let's go, section-8! I want to move out :D shit takes forever

Mini-Me
09-09-2008, 10:13 AM
I'm a recovering phony. ;)

To be serious, though...in a rare case of agreement with Theocrat, I have to admit that rbu was being ironically hypocritical in his original post (almost deliciously so, though the most delicious post of the thread had many blocks of cheese in it).

Here's why:
On one hand, many people strongly disagree with truthers and/or try to persuade them to keep their movement separate. According to rbu, this is trying to "control" what truthers think or do.
On the other hand, rbu himself is strongly disagreeing with those denouncing the truthers, and he's trying to persuade them to stop doing so. Somehow, this is not trying to "control" what the "denouncers" think or do. Theocrat is right that this makes rbu's post very ironically hypocritical. :D

The fact is, nobody involved here is actually trying to forcefully suppress anyone else's opinion. We all seem to believe in freedom of speech, and that includes our own freedom to vehemently disagree with what someone else says...and to call them all sorts of horrible, cruel names in the process (although that's not exactly productive). To turn rbu's own words against him, "A truly free human doesn't care what others think or do as long as they aren't harming anyone physically." In all seriousness, I disagree with that notion...believing in personal liberty does not mean that you totally don't care whatsoever about what others think, say, or do - particularly when the consequences affect you personally. Rather, it only means that you recognize their right to think, say, or do it without being physically interfered with (provided their actions don't infringe on someone else's equal rights). After all, rbu himself clearly cares about whether people are being consistent in their beliefs, regardless of whether they're physically hurting anybody or not. Similarly, I care about whether people agree with me, I care how people vote, and I care about whether some people's actions make Ron Paul supporters look like idiots. Therefore, I will do everything within my rights to persuade people to think and act intelligently...but I still recognize and affirm their right to think and act otherwise, and I recognize I have no right to physically interfere.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
09-09-2008, 10:49 AM
It really is scary. I honestly believe there are more sheeple in our movement per/capita than without. Ron Paul has simply taken the place of Obama or McCain and become a demiGod for many. I LOVE Ron Paul, but I do not worship him, nor do I believe nor follow his every edict. I have a mind, and I like to use it.

Think about the typical Ron Paul supporter conversation. 2 people meet. First they brag about all the rally's they attended, all the photos with Ron Paul they have. Then they talk about the Fed, sound money, how Obama is a Socialist and McCain is not much better. They name-drop Jefferson and pull out a dollar bill and call it funny money, they pull out their Liberty dollar or swoon over the one someone else has, all the while laughing and back-slapping. It turns to 91 truth and the discussion gets heated. Oh my gosh, the pods on the bottom are like so obvious. And what about building 7!! Things finally digress to talking about all the organizations they belong to and when Ron Paul will hold the next rally so they can talk about the same old stuff over and over and over again.

But nothing is being DONE. We need to be people of action, not talk. We need to be people of deep thought, not surface-level rhetoric.

Ron Paul has said over and over again that this is OUR revolution. Yet so many insist on making it Ron Paul's revolution. If we want to make Ron Paul happy, we need to change. We're still being sheeple, just following a different leader. It has to stop.


You're insulting yet mostly correct, but a lot of the Ron Paul people have just awakened and they need some time to grow. It's not a one month or even a one year process.
You just don't wake up one day and become a "deep thinker" and completely deprogrammed.
You don't become completely independent with a snap of the fingers. A lot of people are still dependent on Ron Paul for inspiration. I bet 90% of us are (myself included).