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View Full Version : Found The Revolution: A Manifesto in audiobook format on BitTorrent




RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 04:27 PM
Someone has made the audiobook CDs into an iTunes/iPod proper audiobook. I just grabbed it myself since I own the CDs and several books. This is way more convenient as it remembers your place in the book when you stop listening. Yeah!!

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4384274/The_Revolution__A_Manifesto_by_Dr_Ron_Paul

I suggest you don't download it unless you already own the CDs or the book.

Don't have it in audio yet? BUY IT before downloading: http://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Manifesto-Ron-Paul/dp/160024355X/

V4Vendetta
09-07-2008, 04:30 PM
lol, I posted about that months ago, The admin here doesn't like that.
They deleted my post after about 10 minutes.

Try This link!
http://www.mininova.org/tor/1781889

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 04:34 PM
lol, I posted about that months ago, The admin here doesn't like that.
They deleted my post after about 10 minutes.

Ah, people talk about starting a civil war and that is allowed to stay, but talking about a paradigm changing book being on BitTorrent must be deleted. That's odd. I don't expect this will be deleted.

And besides, Ron Paul believes in civil disobedience. I doubt VERY much that he would be enthusiastic about us stopping people from accessing his book for free.

newyearsrevolution08
09-07-2008, 04:35 PM
revolution a manifesto + torrent in one search....

you should be a safe cracker lol

newyearsrevolution08
09-07-2008, 04:37 PM
Ah, people talk about starting a civil war and that is allowed to stay, but talking about a paradigm changing book being on BitTorrent must be deleted. That's odd. I don't expect this will be deleted.

Its illegal copies so YES it odds are will get deleted depending on the mod who finds it.

Free markets and free this and that has nothing to do with stealing from others who are trying to make money off of something they did.

If ron paul wanted to offer this for free then he would make it public use but I doubt that is the case.....

Do what you will but we all know, you don't post up downloads like this so those who already bought it can have additional copies lol....

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 04:40 PM
Its illegal copies so YES it odds are will get deleted depending on the mod who finds it.

Free markets and free this and that has nothing to do with stealing from others who are trying to make money off of something they did.

If ron paul wanted to offer this for free then he would make it public use but I doubt that is the case.....

Do what you will but we all know, you don't post up downloads like this so those who already bought it can have additional copies lol....

Sorry, I disagree. I made the well-watched opening-the-audio-book video on YouTube, so I can readily prove I own the CDs. And if you steal from someone, you are removing it from them. A copy is not theft no matter what the RIAA ads say.

Austin
09-07-2008, 05:01 PM
I didn't think about getting a torrent, thanks. I have three copies of the book, so I do not find any moral complications with downloading the audio book.

Though I can understand why the mods would want to discourage threads like this.

rajibo
09-07-2008, 05:50 PM
I can't stand the guy who reads that. Ron Paul should have read it.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 05:55 PM
I can't stand the guy who reads that. Ron Paul should have read it.

Tis true, his voice does sucketh. And don't read along with the book, or it'll drive you crazy. :)

I have listened to the book about 6 times since I got the CDs though.

Kludge
09-07-2008, 05:56 PM
Update: Since an Admin removed my link without even notifying me, you can go to thepiratebay.org and do a search and you'll find it easy enough. And sorry LibertyEagle, but posting a link to a webpage is not theft. Your actions reek of the type of government control that we here are constantly fighting against. I think you need to think about that.

libertarianism should not be applied outside of politics... When not acting as or speaking of government, we need to be aware that our actions have consequences (blowback). Since LE has authority from Josh, it is only responsible to prevent theft by disallowing linking - and probably discussion too.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 06:02 PM
libertarianism should not be applied outside of politics... When not acting as or speaking of government, we need to be aware that our actions have consequences (blowback). Since LE has authority from Josh, it is only responsible to prevent theft by disallowing linking - and probably discussion too.

I disagree. Anyone could use google and find this. It is up to the conscience of the individual to grab it or not. If they have the CDs like I do, and others here do, do you disagree that they should not be allowed to download that same audio they already own in a more convenient form.

And really, what is more important here? Having people read/listen to this book, or being Nazi's about it. There is no law broken by me, the OP or the forums for hosting my thread about the book being on BitTorrent. Since no one here is breaking any law, WHY Nazi a nazi level of reaction?

Trying to find your place on one of 4 CDs each time you stop listening is a MAJOR pain in the ass. This file I just grabbed allows me to stop listening and start it again at the same exact spot.

There is no justification legal or otherwise to objecting to this. And the hypocrisy should also be noted. We all post photos and full length new articles ALL THE TIME, CONSTANTLY and that IS breaking the law, and nothing is ever done to stop THAT!

SeanEdwards
09-07-2008, 06:02 PM
A copy is not theft no matter what the RIAA ads say.

The law of the land says violating copyright is illegal. That is not a matter for discussion or opinion. It is simply a fact.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 06:04 PM
The law of the land says violating copyright is illegal. That is not a matter for discussion or opinion. It is simply a fact.

Thats fine, but I posted a link to a web-page, not a link to a file. And that is not illegal. That is not a matter for discussion or opinion. It is simply a fact

SeanEdwards
09-07-2008, 06:14 PM
Thats fine, but I posted a link to a web-page, not a link to a file. And that is not illegal. That is not a matter for discussion or opinion. It is simply a fact

You are facilitating copyright violation. Stop bitching about the admins of this private forum choosing to not assist you in that activity.

powerofreason
09-07-2008, 06:17 PM
Its illegal copies so YES it odds are will get deleted depending on the mod who finds it.

Free markets and free this and that has nothing to do with stealing from others who are trying to make money off of something they did.

If ron paul wanted to offer this for free then he would make it public use but I doubt that is the case.....

Do what you will but we all know, you don't post up downloads like this so those who already bought it can have additional copies lol....

Stealing? Depends on if you believe in intellectual property I guess.

http://www.mises.org/store/Against-Intellectual-Property-P523.aspx

powerofreason
09-07-2008, 06:36 PM
You are facilitating copyright violation. Stop bitching about the admins of this private forum choosing to not assist you in that activity.

"You are facilitating copyright violation."

lololol throw him in prison!
:rolleyes:

jemartinsen81
09-07-2008, 06:53 PM
People who illegally download the audiobook demonstrate that they have no respect for property rights, and the capitalism advocated by Ron Paul. Not only are you stealing it for yourself, but since its a torrent, you're contributing to letting other people steal it more efficiently as well.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 07:26 PM
You are facilitating copyright violation

Yeah so does Google, and Yahoo, and every other search engine on the planet... And so does the Internet itself.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 07:28 PM
People who illegally download the audiobook demonstrate that they have no respect for property rights, and the capitalism advocated by Ron Paul. Not only are you stealing it for yourself, but since its a torrent, you're contributing to letting other people steal it more efficiently as well.

Unless, like me, you already own the physical CDs.

FindLiberty
09-07-2008, 07:30 PM
Tis true, his voice does sucketh. And don't read along with the book, or it'll drive you crazy. :)

I have listened to the book about 6 times since I got the CDs though.

Own several copies, gave one to local Library, listened to CD twice, agree voice sucketh a bit too much.

MelissaCato
09-07-2008, 07:35 PM
Heyyyyyyyyy ... who keeps stealing 1/2 my paycheck every week ? :mad:

LibertyEagle
09-07-2008, 08:22 PM
Someone has made the audiobook CDs into an iTunes/iPod proper audiobook. I just grabbed it myself since I own the CDs and several books. This is way more convenient as it remembers your place in the book when you stop listening. Yeah!!

....

I suggest you don't download it unless you already own the CDs or the book.

Update: Since an Admin removed my link without even notifying me, you can go to thepiratebay.org and do a search and you'll find it easy enough. And sorry LibertyEagle, but posting a link to a webpage is not theft. Your actions reek of the type of government control that we here are constantly fighting against. I think you need to think about that.

Posting a link, here, so that people can download an illegal copy of Ron Paul's book, is akin to promoting illegal activity. Which is against forum guidelines.

Look guys, if and when Ron wants to make his book available for free, I'm sure he'll offer it as such through mises.org. At this point in time though, he offers his book for an exchange of money.

Suzu
09-07-2008, 08:32 PM
If you already own the CDs just rip them to your hard drive and listen from there. No need for a torrent.

Ninja Homer
09-07-2008, 08:33 PM
It's not theft, it's copyright infringement. If it's theft, they no longer have it; if it's copyright infringement, you are using their product outside the terms of their copyright. Yes, copyright infringement is still illegal even if it isn't theft.

In fact, it's probably just as illegal as 95% of the youtube videos that are linked to from here. Anything that was broadcast on TV was most likely copyrighted, and a product of that network. Watching that video outside of the network's copyright terms is copyright infringement.

There's definitely a double standard going on here, but since this is a private web site, it's definitely the site owner's prerogative. If they don't want certain links or even talk about certain links to be posted here, that's their call.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 08:35 PM
It's not theft, it's copyright infringement. If it's theft, they no longer have it; if it's copyright infringement, you are using their product outside the terms of their copyright. Yes, copyright infringement is still illegal even if it isn't theft.

In fact, it's probably just as illegal as 95% of the youtube videos that are linked to from here. Anything that was broadcast on TV was most likely copyrighted, and a product of that network. Watching that video outside of the network's copyright terms is copyright infringement.

There's definitely a double standard going on here, but since this is a private web site, it's definitely the site owner's prerogative. If they don't want certain links or even talk about certain links to be posted here, that's their call.

Yeah, that's what I mean, the total hypocrisy. I'll ask Bryan since I'll be calling him in a few minutes.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
09-07-2008, 08:36 PM
Yeah, that's what I mean, the total hypocrisy. I'll ask Bryan since I'll be calling him in a few minutes.

You are encouraging people to steal from Ron Paul

Mahkato
09-07-2008, 08:52 PM
Stealing? Depends on if you believe in intellectual property I guess.

http://www.mises.org/store/Against-Intellectual-Property-P523.aspx

Do you have a PDF of that book? :D

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 08:52 PM
You are encouraging people to steal from Ron Paul

Oh away with such stupid rhetoric. No one is encouraging any such thing. There would unlikely be a person on these boards that has not several copies of The Revolution. I have bought about 33 copies plus the audio CDs. Maybe YOU have the conscience to steal and that's why YOU see it that way. Others are different.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 08:53 PM
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/meet-the-latest.html

Funny....

AlexMerced
09-07-2008, 08:55 PM
I've bought at least 30 copies now, the goal is 100

Matt Collins
09-07-2008, 09:23 PM
Its illegal copies Actually it's unlawful. Unlawful and illegal are not necessarily one in the same.



Free markets and free this and that has nothing to do with stealing from others who are trying to make money off of something they did.
it is only responsible to prevent theft by disallowing linking - and probably discussion too.
Except that it's not theft. It's copyright infringement. There is a difference.


And if you steal from someone, you are removing it from them. A copy is not theft no matter what the RIAA ads say.

Exactly

Matt Collins
09-07-2008, 09:27 PM
I disagree. Anyone could use google and find this. It is up to the conscience of the individual to grab it or not. Except that it's not a moral decision. It's a legal decision. People often times (largely due to the *.AA FUD campaigns) confuse copyright violation with some sort of moral problem. Copyright law is just that: law. No one is being damaged or harmed by having unauthorized copies available or linking to them. Trying to apply a moral standard to copyright is an ignorant idea because copyright is a legal fiction created by the government.

Matt Collins
09-07-2008, 09:28 PM
The law of the land says violating copyright is illegal. Actually, the Constitution says that Congress MAY create laws based upon the idea that authors of creative works may have exclusive right to copy, distribute, etc. So copyright law originates with the Constitution, but the mechanics of it is actually statutory.

Matt Collins
09-07-2008, 09:31 PM
Thats fine, but I posted a link to a web-page, not a link to a file. And that is not illegal.Exactly. Posting a link or writing about something falls under clear 1st Amendment protection.



Funny story -
There was a T-Shirt printed a few years back which had the code to crack the encryption of modern day DVD players so that copying of DVDs could be facilitated. The *.AA went after these T-Shirt makers because they said that the t-shirt violated trade secrets / copyright law / patent etc. You can read about it here:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2000/08/37941

Matt Collins
09-07-2008, 09:31 PM
You are facilitating copyright violation. No, linking to something doesn't facilitate copyright infringement. Actually offering the content to upload to others DOES facilitate copyright infringement.

nate895
09-07-2008, 09:32 PM
Except that it's not a moral decision. It's a legal decision. People often times (largely due to the *.AA FUD campaigns) confuse copyright violation with some sort of moral problem. Copyright law is just that: law. No one is being damaged or harmed by having unauthorized copies available or linking to them. Trying to apply a moral standard to copyright is an ignorant idea because copyright is a legal fiction created by the government.

Copyright isn't a legal fiction if the government is empowered to make a law to that effect. It isn't that the government made a law simply to enforce a previous copyright law that is supposedly "natural." They made the copyright law and the instrument to enforce it, Constitutionally. If it was unconstitutional, then it would be a legal fiction.

A good example of a legal fiction is Lincoln's argument of the nature of the Union. It is total BS that anyone who could read a history book could understand, and yet it is still seen as the "law."

Matt Collins
09-07-2008, 09:32 PM
Not only are you stealing it for yourself, but since its a torrent, you're contributing to letting other people steal it more efficiently as well.Again, it's not theft, it's copyright infringement. And the people who download it are not the ones doing the infringement necessarily, it's those who are uploading it.

Matt Collins
09-07-2008, 09:34 PM
Posting a link, here, so that people can download an illegal copy of Ron Paul's book, is akin to promoting illegal activity. Which is against forum guidelines.Yes absolutely the owners of the forum can make whichever rules they like, it's their forum and this is private 'property'. However it is not illegal to link to or write about something. Nor is simply linking to it promoting an illegal activity.

Matt Collins
09-07-2008, 09:35 PM
You are encouraging people to steal from Ron PaulIt's not theft it's copyright infringement. And the reality of the situation is that if someone never intended to pay for the book but they downloaded it anyway, then the owner of that copyright has not lost anything.

Matt Collins
09-07-2008, 09:38 PM
Copyright isn't a legal fiction if the government is empowered to make a law to that effect.What I mean by that is that it is actually one of the few, if only, rights the federal government actually grants to the people. Congress could do away with copyright, patents, and trademarks tomorrow if they so decided and it would be completely Constitutional for them to do so. In other words copyright is just something someone made up when they were writing the Constitution.




.
A good example of a legal fiction is Lincoln's argument of the nature of the Union. It is total BS that anyone who could read a history book could understand, and yet it is still seen as the "law."Yes, Lincoln was one of the worst along with FDR, Teddy, Bush, and Johnson.

V4Vendetta
09-07-2008, 09:54 PM
wow, i am surprised this thread is still up. Rock on

RonPaulVolunteer
09-07-2008, 11:53 PM
Just spoke with Bryan, IN PERSON, and he does not have a problem with it. I am putting the link back. LE, you can take it up with Bryan if you still have a problem.

Black Dude
09-08-2008, 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by powerofreason View Post
Stealing? Depends on if you believe in intellectual property I guess.

http://www.mises.org/store/Against-I...erty-P523.aspx
Do you have a PDF of that book?



Do you have a PDF of that book? :D

yep

http://mises.org/books/against.pdf

bluto20
09-08-2008, 12:38 AM
McCain/Obama≠change

RonPaulVolunteer
09-08-2008, 12:40 AM
McCain/Obama≠change

Are you lost?

Conza88
09-08-2008, 01:12 AM
I'm sticking to my principles. Let's pretend this is any other form of music, i.e metallica, britney spears, or an oldschool movie...

Quite clearly... it is not theft, using my subjective value - I am not going to purchase a CD for 30 fken dollars. Nor a DVD for $50. Howabout the scum buckets get their marketing / processing / distribution shit together... we're living in the 21st century. No wonder the clowns are crying over a drop in sales... and thus proceed to get stuff banned / shutdown, instead of developing and taking over the new markets. They are NOT losing a sale by me downloading it, since I would never bought it in the first place. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not on the cheap. There was an epic album I found online, couldn't get the music... so I paid a bundle for it... JUST like I read a bit of How I found Freedom in an Unfree world... and decided to buy the book - $70 on ebay, practically no copies remaining and they don't print it no more. :cool: .... MISES.org has found that; after publishing books online for free.. the sales of that book would SKYROCKET..

Anyone considering anything else; fails... This will probably increase book sales.

Anyway; subjective value - I wouldn't be purchasing the items anyway; if they weren't as cheap as they are here. Economies of scale - approaches infinity, that's why it's considered"free"... lol

Now why should I pay amazon $$ for transport & wait 4 weeks?

If you contend it's to support Ron Paul... Ok great, way waaaaaaaaay ahead of ya. ;)
Anyway, I'ma burn this & stick it in my friends car.

idiom
09-08-2008, 02:05 AM
may I suggest grabbing a torrent of Lawrence Lessigs book, "Free Culture".

Absolutely Eye Opening.

Conza88
09-08-2008, 02:16 AM
may I suggest grabbing a torrent of Lawrence Lessigs book, "Free Culture".

Absolutely Eye Opening.

:o Why is it so worthy? :confused:

:)

idiom
09-08-2008, 02:34 AM
FREE CULTURE is available for free under a Creative Commons license.
You may redistribute, copy, or otherwise reuse/remix this book provided that you do so for non-commercial purposes and credit Professor Lessig.

Flash Presentation of the ideas (http://randomfoo.net/oscon/2002/lessig/free.html) << Good Place to start
MP3 of Presentation (http://randomfoo.net/oscon/2002/lessig/free_culture.mp3)
Free Culture Audio Book Torrent -LEGAL- (http://resare.com/fc/Lawrence_Lessig__Free_Culture__AudioBook__v1.0.tor rent)



Lawrence Lessig could be called a cultural environmentalist. One of America’s most original and influential public intellectuals, his focus is the social dimension of creativity: how creative work builds on the past and how society encourages or inhibits that building with laws and technologies. In his two previous books, CODE and THE FUTURE OF IDEAS, Lessig concentrated on the destruction of much of the original promise of the Internet. Now, in FREE CULTURE, he widens his focus to consider the diminishment of the larger public domain of ideas. In this powerful wake-up call he shows how short-sighted interests blind to the long-term damage they’re inflicting are poisoning the ecosystem that fosters innovation.

All creative works—books, movies, records, software, and so on—are a compromise between what can be imagined and what is possible—technologically and legally. For more than two hundred years, laws in America have sought a balance between rewarding creativity and allowing the borrowing from which new creativity springs. The original term of copyright set by the First Congress in 1790 was 14 years, renewable once. Now it is closer to two hundred. Thomas Jefferson considered protecting the public against overly long monopolies on creative works an essential government role. What did he know that we’ve forgotten?

Lawrence Lessig shows us that while new technologies always lead to new laws, never before have the big cultural monopolists used the fear created by new technologies, specifically the Internet, to shrink the public domain of ideas, even as the same corporations use the same technologies to control more and more what we can and can’t do with culture. As more and more culture becomes digitized, more and more becomes controllable, even as laws are being toughened at the behest of the big media groups. What’s at stake is our freedom—freedom to create, freedom to build, and ultimately, freedom to imagine.

Conza88
09-08-2008, 03:04 AM
Anyway, the torrent ain't that flash.... one .m4a file, 5hrs long.... LOL..

*Goes back to listening to mises audio* :D

newyearsrevolution08
09-08-2008, 03:15 AM
well if the admin doesn't care than why don't we have a torrent section for good audio and books that would be worth passing around?

RonPaulVolunteer
09-08-2008, 03:19 AM
Anyway, the torrent ain't that flash.... one .m4a file, 5hrs long.... LOL..

*Goes back to listening to mises audio* :D

Precisely, that's WHY I got it! On an iPod, you WANT one single file, because iPods are smart and know how to handle them. The 5 CDs were just a pain in the ass even when ripped.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-08-2008, 03:19 AM
well if the admin doesn't care than why don't we have a torrent section for good audio and books that would be worth passing around?

It's probably a good idea actually.

Conza88
09-08-2008, 03:56 AM
It's probably a good idea actually.

Well... I've got the 5gb of Mises Free Audio organized into their proper folders / files as presented on the site... :)

I could upload it... but I'm capped at 25gb a month.. lol. I may seed to a friend who has 150gb? *shrugs*

V4Vendetta
09-08-2008, 06:23 AM
Well... I've got the 5gb of Mises Free Audio organized into their proper folders / files as presented on the site... :)

I could upload it... but I'm capped at 25gb a month.. lol. I may seed to a friend who has 150gb? *shrugs*

Maybe you should look into another ISP.
I wouldn't give anyone money for Internet that costs the same rather it's 1 BIT or 1 Terabyte.

Cowlesy
09-08-2008, 05:01 PM
Knock yourselves out kiddies.

If Bryan is fine with it, I don't give a shit other than I think you're promoting the infringement of a copyright, and of all copyrights, something of Ron Paul's.

But whatever, go nuts.

V4Vendetta
09-08-2008, 08:22 PM
Knock yourselves out kiddies.

If Bryan is fine with it, I don't give a shit other than I think you're promoting the infringement of a copyright, and of all copyrights, something of Ron Paul's.

But whatever, go nuts.

Yay, we have approval!

Ninja Homer
09-08-2008, 10:44 PM
Knock yourselves out kiddies.

If Bryan is fine with it, I don't give a shit other than I think you're promoting the infringement of a copyright, and of all copyrights, something of Ron Paul's.

But whatever, go nuts.

So are most youtube links, but I think the main problem most people here have with this is that it's Ron Paul's product. I understand that, and I'd be ok either way... it ain't my forum.

But since we got the go ahead:
Rally for the Republic audio only format: http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1609143/9518133/ (registration at demonoid required... you may need an invite)

Rally for the Republic DVD: http://www.mininova.org/tor/1783658

If you don't know how to get a torrent, try this: http://utorrent.com/

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 08:06 AM
I have ordered the book and it's on its way to me. But I have also downloaded the torrent because in a couple of weeks I will be taking an 8 hour drive and would like to listen to it then.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 08:45 AM
I ordered the DVD from CSPAN already. Should be here today.

Luhiss
09-09-2008, 09:00 AM
Great... rob the guy who has inspired us. Very nice.

Freedom doesn't mean take what you want even if it isn't yours. Revolution doesn't mean steal from your leaders.

Have some self respect and buy the book.

FrankRep
09-09-2008, 09:02 AM
Great... rob the guy who has inspired us. Very nice.

Freedom doesn't mean take what you want even if it isn't yours. Revolution doesn't mean steal from your leaders.

Have some self respect and buy the book.

The more people who hear his message, the more followers he will have.

Luhiss
09-09-2008, 09:07 AM
The more people who hear his message, the more followers he will have.


Then buy the book for them, don't steal out of Ron Paul's pockets.....

disgraceful....

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 09:11 AM
Then buy the book for them, don't steal out of Ron Paul's pockets.....

disgraceful....

Oh wake up you idiot. No one is stealing anything. Read the F***ing thread before making a comment.

Sorry, this sort of BS just pisses me off.

Luhiss
09-09-2008, 09:12 AM
Oh wake up you idiot. No one is stealing anything. Read the F***ing thread before making a comment.

Sorry, this sort of BS just pisses me off.

The top post is a link to an illegal torrent. Nuff said.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 09:15 AM
The top post is a link to an illegal torrent. Nuff said.

There is nothing illegal about a link whatsoever. READ THE THREAD.

FrankRep
09-09-2008, 09:16 AM
Then buy the book for them, don't steal out of Ron Paul's pockets.....

disgraceful....

I bought two books already.

Ron Paul's message needs to get out there.

Luhiss
09-09-2008, 09:23 AM
There is nothing illegal about a link whatsoever. READ THE THREAD.

Is there or is there not a link embedded in the first post for an illegal torrent on Pirate Bay? There is.

The original poster tells us to buy the books if we use the torrent... but why not just leave the link out, and tell people to buy the book or audio book?

Why would you tell people to buy a book, but then post an illegal torrent? It invites people to illegally download the property of Ron Paul without compensation. Would you tell people "Ron Paul's car is parked on main street, and the keys are in it. But if you decide to take his car for a joyride, be sure to go out and buy the same car." It's ridiculous.

This is not a book recommendation post. It's a "hey... here's a free copy of Ron Paul's book", thinly veiled in the spirit of "spreading the word".

One of Ron Paul's biggest issues is property rights. Have some respect for his.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 09:25 AM
Is there or is there not a link embedded in the first post for an illegal torrent on Pirate Bay? There is.

The original poster tells us to buy the books if we use the torrent... but why not just leave the link out, and tell people to buy the book or audio book?

Why would you tell people to buy a book, but then post an illegal torrent? It invites people to illegally download the property of Ron Paul without compensation. Would you tell people "Ron Paul's car is parked on main street, and the keys are in it. But if you decide to take his car for a joyride, be sure to go out and buy the same car." It's ridiculous.

This is not a book recommendation post. It's a "hey... here's a free copy of Ron Paul's book", thinly veiled in the spirit of "spreading the word".

One of Ron Paul's biggest issues is property rights. Have some respect for his.

OMG. Learn how to read. Really.

Luhiss
09-09-2008, 09:27 AM
OMG. Learn how to read. Really.

Oh.. so there isn't a link to Pirate Bay in the first post? Really?

Ninja Homer
09-09-2008, 09:28 AM
Would you tell people "Ron Paul's car is parked on main street, and the keys are in it. But if you decide to take his car for a joyride, be sure to go out and buy the same car."

I wouldn't steal Ron Paul's car, but I'd totally download a copy of it and burn it to real life. :D

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 09:42 AM
don't steal out of Ron Paul's pockets.....


Great... rob the guy who has inspired us. Very nice.

Freedom doesn't mean take what you want even if it isn't yours. Revolution doesn't mean steal from your leaders.Unfortunately you are wrong in your idea of what theft is. Theft is defined as taking someone else's property with the intent to deprive them of it. Therefore copyright infringement is NOT theft as you have erroneously alleged.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 09:45 AM
Would you tell people "Ron Paul's car is parked on main street, and the keys are in it. But if you decide to take his car for a joyride, be sure to go out and buy the same car." It's ridiculous.


I wouldn't steal Ron Paul's car, but I'd totally download a copy of it and burn it to real life. :D
Exactly. Again, it isn't theft, it's copyright infringement. You are not "stealing his car" you are simply making a duplicate of it. Ron Paul is not deprived of anything if you download the book without paying for it, ESPECIALLY if you never intended to pay for it to begin with.

acptulsa
09-09-2008, 09:48 AM
Exactly. Again, it isn't theft, it's copyright infringement. You are not "stealing his car" you are simply making a duplicate of it. Ron Paul is not deprived of anything if you download the book without paying for it, ESPECIALLY if you never intended to pay for it to begin with.

Writing is work. It is much harder work than anyone realizes until they try it. Steal the fruits of all that labor and you're no better than your average tax collector.

Luhiss
09-09-2008, 10:07 AM
Exactly. Again, it isn't theft, it's copyright infringement. You are not "stealing his car" you are simply making a duplicate of it. Ron Paul is not deprived of anything if you download the book without paying for it, ESPECIALLY if you never intended to pay for it to begin with.

That's absurd. That's like saying if you steal someone's TV, but don't intend to watch it, it's not stealing.

You can attach any nuance you want to it. It's considered theft. The law considers it theft. The owner of copywrited material considers it theft. If you take it without paying for it, it is theft.

You can debate all you want.. .but theft is theft. If you are comfortable with that, so be it, but it is still theft.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 10:08 AM
Writing is work. It is much harder work than anyone realizes until they try it. Steal the fruits of all that labor and you're no better than your average tax collector.By downloading a copy of that work you are not stealing anything. You are simply making a copy of it. The original author is deprived of nothing. You do realize that "the fruits of the labor" of writing a book or doing anything creative is a right the federal government, specifically Congress, gives us?

Yeah, Congress could abolish all copyrights, patents, and trademarks tomorrow if they so decided to.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 10:10 AM
It's considered theft. The law considers it theft. The owner of copywrited material considers it theft. If you take it without paying for it, it is theft.

You can debate all you want.. .but theft is theft. If you are comfortable with that, so be it, but it is still theft.WRONG WRONG WRONG!

It is NOT theft, the law does not consider it theft, and taking something that isn't yours doesn't qualify as theft if the original owner is not deprived of anything.

I have taken 2 law classes about copyright in college. Yes I do have a clue as to what I am talking about :rolleyes:

FrankRep
09-09-2008, 10:10 AM
That's absurd. That's like saying if you steal someone's TV, but don't intend to watch it, it's not stealing.

You can attach any nuance you want to it. It's considered theft. The law considers it theft. The owner of copywrited material considers it theft. If you take it without paying for it, it is theft.

You can debate all you want.. .but theft is theft. If you are comfortable with that, so be it, but it is still theft.

I'm comfortable with educating people and saving the Republic.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 10:11 AM
By downloading a copy of that work you are not stealing anything. You are simply making a copy of it. The original author is deprived of nothing. You do realize that "the fruits of the labor" of writing a book or doing anything creative is a right the federal government, specifically Congress, gives us?

Yeah, Congress could abolish all copyrights, patents, and trademarks tomorrow if they so decided to.

I think you're wasting your time. Some people here just don't have the mental capacity to see anything beyond their pre-conceived notions. Talk about sheeple...

acptulsa
09-09-2008, 10:12 AM
By downloading a copy of that work you are not stealing anything. You are simply making a copy of it. The original author is deprived of nothing. You do realize that "the fruits of the labor" of writing a book or doing anything creative is a right the federal government, specifically Congress, gives us?

Yeah, Congress could abolish all copyrights, patents, and trademarks tomorrow if they so decided to.

Who would write if it paid nothing, Collins? Who would or could record music if it was nothing but a very expensive hobby?

Your argument is as fallacious and goofy as if you said that the income tax is not akin to theft because it is withheld from your check before you ever see it, so you are 'deprived of nothing'. Get real.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 10:23 AM
I think you're wasting your time. Some people here just don't have the mental capacity to see anything beyond their pre-conceived notions. Talk about sheeple...Yes, but if I don't at least make an effort to educate people then there is little chance of them being educated....

spiteface
09-09-2008, 10:24 AM
Who would write if it paid nothing, Collins? Who would or could record music if it was nothing but a very expensive hobby?

Your argument is as fallacious and goofy as if you said that the income tax is not akin to theft because it is withheld from your check before you ever see it, so you are 'deprived of nothing'. Get real.

Yeah, what restaurants would create new dishes if they couldn't be patented? Everyone would just steal the recipe and the creator would get screwed. Oh wait...

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 10:24 AM
Yes, but if I don't at least make an effort to educate people then there is little chance of them being educated....

True.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 10:26 AM
Who would write if it paid nothing, Millions of people have and do. My posts on here from the last year could make more than a book. Look at those who blog. Many people want to get their message out. Many people simply want to share ideas with others. Writing isn't always about the money so copyright isn't necessary for people to write. But that really isn't the issue at hand now is it?



Who would or could record music if it was nothing but a very expensive hobby?To most people who record music it IS a very expensive hobby. The majority of musicians don't make anything off of their recordings. And if they do it's usually cross-collateralized to their live performances.


Your argument is as fallacious and goofy as if you said that the income tax is not akin to theft because it is withheld from your check before you ever see it, so you are 'deprived of nothing'. Get real.Again, different argument completely. The income tax IS theft because they are depriving you of what you have earned. They are taking your money.

acptulsa
09-09-2008, 10:28 AM
Again, different argument completely. The income tax IS theft because they are depriving you of what you have earned. They are taking your money.

And writing an entertaining novel should not be a way to earn? And if no one pays for it, where is what you earned?

FrankRep
09-09-2008, 10:31 AM
Acptulsa seems more interested in making a profit than actually saving the country and educating people.

acptulsa
09-09-2008, 10:33 AM
Acptulsa seems more interested in making a profit than actually saving the country and educating people.

What does Ron Paul use the proceeds for?

FrankRep
09-09-2008, 10:38 AM
What does Ron Paul use the proceeds for?

You must look at the bigger picture. Ron Paul's ideas and knowledge MUST get out to the public before we have a total economic collapse.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 10:41 AM
You must look at the bigger picture. Ron Paul's ideas and knowledge MUST get out to the public before we have a total economic collapse.

Sorry, I can't see the forest. There's some trees in the bloody way.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 10:42 AM
And writing an entertaining novel should not be a way to earn? And if no one pays for it, where is what you earned?Who says no one will pay for it? It's available on the web and still LOTS of people are paying for it.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 10:43 AM
Acptulsa seems more interested in making a profit than actually saving the country and educating people.Let's not attack him on that. His point that a profit is a good thing is true. In fact one of the reasons copyright law exists is to provide incentive for creative authors to create works of art (including books, music, etc). However it does it not only for the benefit of the author, but for the benefit of society at large.

But that doesn't mean that downloading an unauthorized copy of Ron's book is theft. It isn't; it's copyright infringement and there IS a difference.

acptulsa
09-09-2008, 10:44 AM
You must look at the bigger picture. Ron Paul's ideas and knowledge MUST get out to the public before we have a total economic collapse.

Dude, I know. When did I say anything different? Indeed, when did I even say that I disagree with the fact that it is legal to copy copyrighted material for educational purposes? Why are you talking down to me?

Matt Collins says that writers and musicians should be robbed of the fruits of their labors, I disagree and you accuse me of not looking at the big freedom movement picture. Looks to me like misdirection, tag teaming and a big fat fail. But, hey, thanks for playing... :rolleyes:

Kludge
09-09-2008, 01:38 PM
Ron's really a jackass for charging people for his book and audiobook. If he really wanted to help the movement, he would have offered it for free.

Onward, Shays, to the courthouse!

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
09-09-2008, 02:09 PM
Thomas Paine charged top $ for his pamphlets, right?

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 02:28 PM
Yes, but if I don't at least make an effort to educate people then there is little chance of them being educated....

Oh, thanks and all, but I already know what theft is. Ron Paul owns the content of his book. You and a few others, are doing your dead level best to justify stealing said content. Call it what you will, but it is nothing but common thievery. If you'd stoop low enough to steal from Ron, I wonder what else you guys would do?

If you want Ron's book for free, there is a way to do it. ASK HIM.

My 2 cents.

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 02:34 PM
Acptulsa seems more interested in making a profit than actually saving the country and educating people.

Frankly, I'm surprised you take this tack.

It sounds remarkably similar to Karl Marx's belief that....

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Kludge
09-09-2008, 02:36 PM
Frankly, I'm surprised you take this tack.

It sounds remarkably similar to Karl Marx's belief that....

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Proletarians of the world, UNITE! Fight the scourge of the ungrateful capitalist pigs!


For too long we have slaved! It is time to turn the tables! Unite! Unite! Citizens, unite!

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 02:40 PM
Matt Collins says that writers and musicians should be robbed of the fruits of their labors, Please quote where I said that :confused: :rolleyes:

acptulsa
09-09-2008, 02:46 PM
Please quote where I said that :confused: :rolleyes:

"By downloading a copy of that work you are not stealing anything. You are simply making a copy of it. The original author is deprived of nothing."

Doesn't matter if it's withheld or taken from his pocket. You can trot the semantics up one side and down the other and it makes no difference. An author has a reasonable expectation of recompense and your way, it isn't forthcoming.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 02:52 PM
Oh, thanks and all, but I already know what theft is. Obviously not. :rolleyes:


You and a few others, are doing your dead level best to justify stealing said content.No one is advocating the theft of anything.


Call it what you will, but it is nothing but common thievery My 2 cents.Unfortunately an uninformed and uneducated opinion.

FrankRep
09-09-2008, 02:54 PM
Frankly, I'm surprised you take this tack.

It sounds remarkably similar to Karl Marx's belief that....

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

In the special case of trying to wake up the country to Ron Paul and trying to stop an economic collapse, I consider getting the information out to the public a top priority.

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 02:54 PM
Matt,

You're advocating taking what does not belong to you. I would think your Mother taught you that concept, well before 5 years of age.

Again, you can pretty it up all you want, but you are advocating the theft of someone else's work.

MsDoodahs
09-09-2008, 02:57 PM
Slap all the lipstick on that pig you want to, guys.

It is still a pig.

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 02:57 PM
In the special case of trying to wake up the country to Ron Paul and trying to stop an economic collapse, I consider getting the information out to the public a top priority.

So, because it's really really important, it's ok to steal? :confused: Is that your premise?

You have the option of buying books yourself and giving them away, or writing to Ron and asking his permission to make copies and distribute.

I agree that it's important to get it out there, but should we give up our basic principles in the process?

FrankRep
09-09-2008, 02:57 PM
Couldn't "illegal downloading" of a book be compared to letting someone borrow a book off your shelf?

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 03:00 PM
An author has a reasonable expectation of recompense and your way, it isn't forthcoming.Actually the law disagrees with you.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 03:02 PM
You're advocating taking what does not belong to you. I don't think I am actually. But either way, it still isn't theft.



I would think your Mother taught you that concept, well before 5 years of age.

Again, you can pretty it up all you want, but you are advocating the theft of someone else's work.It's not theft, and attempting to simplify a highly complex issue such as copyright law is not very wise because it shows everyone how much you don't really know about the subject.

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 03:03 PM
Couldn't "illegal downloading" of a book be compared to letting someone borrow a book off your shelf?

Well Frank, I think you're trying to rationalize it. But, that's just my opinion. You have to make that decision for yourself.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 03:04 PM
Couldn't "illegal downloading" of a book be compared to letting someone borrow a book off your shelf?Actually downloading it isn't unlawful, offering it to upload is the unlawful part. One of the rights granted to authors is the right to distribute, among the right to copy, the right of public performance, the right of attribution, etc... Uploading a copyrighted work is the infringing part because the uploader doesn't have the right to distribute.


And if you look at any of the *.AA cases, no one has ever been sued for downloading. They have all been sued for uploading.

MsDoodahs
09-09-2008, 03:04 PM
Which guides your behavior?

The law ... or your morals?

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 03:06 PM
Matt,

It's very simple.

You don't own the content of Ron's book.

Therefore, if you copy said content and distribute it, without the permission of the author, or purchase of said content, you are stealing.

If you do not have the money to buy copies of Ron's content and distribute, then you have the option of requesting his permission to copy and distribute it for free.

It's not really rocket science.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 03:07 PM
Which guides your behavior?

The law ... or your morals?

What guided the founding fathers in 1776?

If they did not choose to break the law of the land, YOU would not be here to have this discussion today!

Kludge
09-09-2008, 03:07 PM
Couldn't "illegal downloading" of a book be compared to letting someone borrow a book off your shelf?

More like replicating the book and then distributing it - and then, why shouldn't a store be allowed to sell the replicas?

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 03:09 PM
Matt,

It's very simple.

You don't own the content of Ron's book.

Therefore, if you copy said content and distribute it, without the permission of the author, or purchase of said content, you are stealing.

If you do not have the money to buy copies of Ron's content and distribute, then you have the option of requesting his permission to copy and distribute it for free.

It's not really rocket science.

What's not rocket science LE (and others), is the simple fact that you hold Ron Paul making a buck of more importance than this nation being woken up.

And that, speaks volumes.

Pun intended.

SnappleLlama
09-09-2008, 03:11 PM
Why is making money such a bad thing? There are always libraries, folks, if you don't want to buy the damn book.

MsDoodahs
09-09-2008, 03:13 PM
What's not rocket science LE (and others), is the simple fact that you hold Ron Paul making a buck of more importance than this nation being woken up.

And that, speaks volumes.

Pun intended.

That's not true.

I want the nation to be awakened. But I'm not willing to compromise my stance against what I see as theft in order to accomplish that goal, as I don't believe it is necessary.

Others are making a different choice, and that's fine.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 03:19 PM
Which guides your behavior?

The law ... or your morals?As I have said, it is not unlawful to download the material, only upload it. And this is not a moral issue in any way because it's strictly a construct of law.

Think of law and morality as two separate and distinct lines. Sometimes they intersect, sometimes they don't. This is an instance where they don't.

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 03:19 PM
What's not rocket science LE (and others), is the simple fact that you hold Ron Paul making a buck of more importance than this nation being woken up.

And that, speaks volumes.

Pun intended.

Well, you know, it doesn't speak well of our understanding of Liberty, if we justify stealing someone else's work in the process.

Or, are you advocating Machiavelli's belief that the end justifies the means? That is also a tenet of the Neocons, by the way. You may want to review Ron's speech, "Neo-conned".

Note: I find it curious that you seem to condemn another person "making a buck". Are you against free market capitalism?

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 03:22 PM
You don't own the content of Ron's book.

Therefore, if you copy said content and distribute it, without the permission of the author, or purchase of said content, you are stealing.Again this is incorrect.


From Merriam-Websters:
THEFT: "the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it"

Since a copy is being made, the original owner is deprived of nothing. Therefore this does not fall under the definition of theft in reality, or in law.



It's not really rocket science.If it's so simple, then why do you keep getting it wrong? :rolleyes:

And yes copyright law is complex.... absurdly complex.

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 03:26 PM
Matt,

You're playing word games.

Kludge
09-09-2008, 03:26 PM
//

I like to instigate madness.

MsDoodahs
09-09-2008, 03:30 PM
From a quick read of an AGregory piece at LRC, it appears to me that Dr. Paul is in favor of copyright law, which leads me to believe that he would therefore object to the torrent of his recent work.

"There are a few particular issues where I don’t agree with Dr. Paul. I take issue with his positions on intellectual property and immigration. But even here we cannot expect the imperial and police-state practices we would get in practically any other administration. There is no reason to expect Paul to use the empire to enforce US copyright laws in the Third World."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory153.html

Anyone got anything from Ron himself showing that he would have no problem with the torrent?

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 03:39 PM
Matt,

You're playing word games.

No, YOU are.

He abides by the DICTIONARY definition of the word, you accept your OWN definition as created through the mass media and educational systems.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 03:40 PM
which leads me to believe that he would therefore object to the torrent of his recent work.

Why don't you ask him.

MsDoodahs
09-09-2008, 03:47 PM
I will, if I can't find something eventually where he states his view. I'm still looking around...

I'm not sure about the issue, quite honestly.

"Intellectual" property isn't real property because it is not scarce; using Ron's ideas does not deprive Ron of using those ideas.

Still, it seems like theft to me. That's what I have to use to guide how I would behave in this scenario.

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 03:50 PM
Why don't you ask him.

She's not the one wanting to steal copies of his work. You are.

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 03:52 PM
No, YOU are.

He abides by the DICTIONARY definition of the word, you accept your OWN definition as created through the mass media and educational systems.

Actually, I'm sticking to principle.

1. a moral rule guiding personal conduct. Example: he'd stoop to anything – he has no principles.

Gotta love that example.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/principle

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 04:00 PM
She's not the one wanting to steal copies of his work. You are.

'Scuse me. I bought 33 copies of the The Revolution. I bought one copy of the audio CDs. And if you bothered to read the thread instead of just mouth of, you'd know that.

I have stolen, NOTHING.

LibertyEagle
09-09-2008, 04:03 PM
'Scuse me. I bought 33 copies of the The Revolution. I bought one copy of the audio CDs. And if you bothered to read the thread instead of just mouth of, you'd know that.

I have stolen, NOTHING.

Ok, I stand corrected. You have not yet taken what does not belong to you, you are merely advocating that others do.

Is that better?

MsDoodahs
09-09-2008, 04:05 PM
Okay...I'm bowing out of this discussion - because I've now had this discussion with the love of my life and...

My reaction (it feels like stealing to me) is based on programming to see it that way.

Ideas aren't scarce in the economic sense. Matter of fact, they're the opposite. Of the two of us, only one can use a wheelbarrow at the same time. If both of us has the idea of a wheelbarrow, we're both better off.

If we take the notion that potential income a person may or may not earn from selling a package of ideas is their "property," then we have to ask ourselves - are those ideas original? Do they owe royalties to the descendents of whomever had the idea first? Do they need permission to rephrase, repackage, or even discuss in public, ideas that are not original to them?

Rights, including the right to property, are absolutes. A good way of distinguishing whether something is a right or a legal fiction is to carry it out to its logical conclusion, or to ask "at whose expense?"

If the logical conclusion is ridiculous, or the "right" granted at someone else's expense, then it ain't a right and it's a legal fiction.

(Thank you, Bill. You are my hero. :))

Ninja Homer
09-09-2008, 04:37 PM
Morally, copyright infringement is like stealing. By legal definition, copyright infringement is not stealing. Matt is trying to explain the legal definition, while others are going by their own moral definition.

If you think that copyright infringement equals theft, then you've already lost the legal argument, and you should limit yourself to the moral argument.

Copyright and copyright infringement can not be simplified down to ownership and theft.

If you were to take copyright law out of the equation, and just argue based on ownership, that would mean that Ron Paul no longer owns The Revolution: A Manifesto, because I bought it and it's sitting here in front of me, so now I own it.

constituent
09-09-2008, 04:42 PM
Okay...I'm bowing out of this discussion - because I've now had this discussion with the love of my life and...


hahahah.... good.

this is a blurry issue for many, i think it's pretty clear. what's funny is how many people it puts into a twist. that's why this issue is one of the best issues to discuss w/ folks if you're looking to challenge their views on issues like politics, property, piracy, etc.

"what is profit?" is another side of this debate that often gets overlooked.



If we take the notion that potential income a person may or may not earn from selling a package of ideas is their "property," then we have to ask ourselves - are those ideas original? Do they owe royalties to the descendents of whomever had the idea first?

Exactly


Do they need permission to rephrase, repackage, or even discuss in public, ideas that are not original to them?

exceptionally important question w/ far reaching implications for humanity and our future.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 04:45 PM
If we take the notion that potential income a person may or may not earn from selling a package of ideas is their "property," then we have to ask ourselves - are those ideas original? Do they owe royalties to the descendents of whomever had the idea first? Do they need permission to rephrase, repackage, or even discuss in public, ideas that are not original to them?Ideas cannot be copyrighted, only the expression of those ideas.


Rights, including the right to property, are absolutes. Except that copyright is an exception to this. It is completely granted by the government and can be taken away by the government.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 04:46 PM
You're playing word games.No, I am describing the law.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 04:47 PM
Still, it seems like theft to me. That's what I have to use to guide how I would behave in this scenario.That's because there has been a massive campaign by the RIAA/MPAA etc about the issue of copyright. They are trying to make the argument a personal / moral issue when really it isn't. It's strictly legal devoid of any emotion.

Matt Collins
09-09-2008, 04:48 PM
She's not the one wanting to steal copies of his work. You are.No one is wanting to steal anything.

MsDoodahs
09-09-2008, 04:51 PM
exceptionally important question w/ far reaching implications for humanity and our future.

Agreed.

RonPaulVolunteer
09-09-2008, 05:05 PM
Ok, I stand corrected. You have not yet taken what does not belong to you, you are merely advocating that others do.

Is that better?

Again, IF you bothered to read the thread, you'd understand WHY I posted it. I use an iPod. The file on this Torrent is no ordinary audiofile. It is an iTunes/iPod-ONLY file in Apple's special audiobook format. This file, when stopped, will play from where you stopped, unlike a rip of the audio CDs which will restart from the beginning. It is also one single file, instead of 5 CDs or 5 ripped files. It also syncs between the iPod and iTunes, so that if I stop listening to it at 2:04:34 on my iPod, and then want to keep listening to it at home through my computer, iTunes will start playing at 2:04:34, the same place I stopped on the iPod. it also has nice cover art that displays on my iPod and I can use as a talking point to introduce people to the book.

It is this incredible convenience that made me want to tell people here, as listening to the ripped CD files, or the CDs themselves can be a major pain in the ass.

I never advocated anyone downloading this file that did not already own the audio CDs. I believe everyone should buy it.

As for the legality of posting a link to a webpage here. Sorry, but there's nothing even remotely illegal about that. You would do well to notice that bookshops keep the book sitting in the open on their shelves ready for any person to pick it up and walk out with it, without paying. Are THEY advocating theft by making it so easy to steal one? No, it is up to the person's conscience whether to walk out without paying or not, just as it is up to a person's conscience or not whether they download it from Torrent without paying for it. Putting a link here on display and saying it facilitates theft is as stupid as saying Borders facilitates theft.

What is TRULY ironic, is that you continue to argue, bumping this thread for all to see, thereby ensuring it is even easier for people to download it.

Perhaps YOU'RE the one facilitating theft?

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
09-09-2008, 05:37 PM
Well if you want to get completely legal here, if you purchased Manifesto with FRNs then the Federal Reserve owns it. If you used another means that requires a SS#(bank account, credit card, etc) then the Government owns it.
Morally, I agree that distributing the content is akin to someone borrowing a book. I doubt Johann Sebastian Bach cares that my mom photocopied his Tocatta and Fugues to give to me.
I likewise seriously doubt Ron Paul gives a shit... maybe that Steve guy in Maine can give him a call (is he still around)?

RonPaulVolunteer
09-12-2008, 12:42 PM
Well if you want to get completely legal here, if you purchased Manifesto with FRNs then the Federal Reserve owns it. If you used another means that requires a SS#(bank account, credit card, etc) then the Government owns it.
Morally, I agree that distributing the content is akin to someone borrowing a book. I doubt Johann Sebastian Bach cares that my mom photocopied his Tocatta and Fugues to give to me.
I likewise seriously doubt Ron Paul gives a shit... maybe that Steve guy in Maine can give him a call (is he still around)?

Hmm...

rpliving
09-12-2008, 12:45 PM
none of these torrents work anymore