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View Full Version : What about Ralph Nader's objection to "corporate personhood"?




fight4liberty
09-06-2008, 07:46 PM
(sorry for the typo in "corporate" in title)

Below I have quoted Nader's position on corporations from his site.

I haven't looked deeply into it but at first glance it seems quite sane to me and his position seems to align with our viewpoint that whatever you subsidize you get more of. Isn't the fact that corporations are regarded legally as persons a way for the individuals who own the corporations to escape being held liable or accountable for misdeeds, bad products, etc.? And if this is so, isn't giving the owners a way to escape liability in effect rewarding there misdeeds or maybe more exactly it removes just penalties for their misdeeds which in turn will encourage more misdeeds?

Anybody have knowledge and/or opinions in this area?


Corporate Personhood

In 1886 the Supreme Court, in the case of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, was interpreted to have ruled that corporations were “persons”—before women were considered persons under the 19th amendment to have the right to vote.

Ever since, corporations have enjoyed most of the same constitutional rights granted to real people.

But corporations are not humans. They don’t vote. They don’t have children. They don’t die in Iraq.

The people who work for the corporations are of course real people, but the corporate “entity” should never be given equal constitutional rights to real human beings.

Even Business Week magazine, in a 2000 editorial, declared that “corporations should get out of politics.”

We cannot have equal justice under law between real people and corporations like Exxon Mobil.

Multinational corporations can be in 1000 places around the world at the same time obstructing governments, states, buying and renting politicians, and going to Washington to get bailed out by taxpayers.

Congress did not legislate corporate personhood. The courts performed this jolting display of runaway activism all by themselves.

The courts destroyed the semblance of equal protection under law because there is no way even an individual billionaire can approximate the raw power of these large corporations with their privileged immunities, and their control over technology, capital and labor.

Nader/Gonzalez will work to end corporate personhood.

Nader/Gonzalez will work to subordinate the artificial corporate entity to the constitutional sovereignty of the people.

Right now it is the reverse. The sovereignty of the people is subordinated to the sovereignty of the giant multinational corporations.

But the constitution still reads, “we the people”, not we the corporations.

Corporations were chartered in the early nineteenth century by state governments to be our servants, not our masters.

They are now our masters.

Time to restore the supremacy of real people.

mudhoney
09-06-2008, 08:31 PM
It doesn't say anything about how covering corporations under our Constitution the same as people is bad. I need to see some examples. Maybe I'm not understanding what Nader is getting at fully, but considering a corporation equal to a person, meaning that they cannot use force or fraud against any other "person", seems like a pretty good idea to me.

Maybe he's missing the point? Since our Constitution is ignored, the government is allowed to unfairly help powerful corporations. I'm getting the feeling he's in the same mindset as my liberal friends. That since corporations run Washington, that legislation should consider corporations as something less than a person. Where I would argue that government should not have the power to help or hurt any person or corporation.

kombayn
09-06-2008, 11:08 PM
Ralph Nader wants to get corporations out of Washington, D.C. Basically lobbyists and who they work for. I like the idea, a corporation shouldn't be protected under the Bill of Rights because it's for individuals not corporate entities. I can see the good in this and hell, he wants to end Corporate Welfare and I think we can all agree that needs to end, ASAP.

specsaregood
09-06-2008, 11:27 PM
I coulda sworn I read at some point that Ron Paul has the same viewpoint, that "corporate personhood" should not exist.

Mesogen
09-07-2008, 12:59 AM
Ralph Nader wants to get corporations out of Washington, D.C.

So did Howard Dean.

Then...

Captain America
09-07-2008, 01:15 AM
i coulda sworn i read at some point that ron paul has the same viewpoint, that "corporate personhood" should not exist.


link?!

Truth Warrior
09-07-2008, 01:54 AM
Ralph ain't right about much. I agree with him on the bogus corporate personhood abomination, however. The horrors of "corporatism" pretty much start right there.<IMHO>

Nathan Hale
09-07-2008, 05:24 PM
I saw a speaker in NH a while back who spoke against the idea on corporate personhood by pointing out that nowhere in the majority or minority opinion of the case mentioned at the start of this thread is the term "corporate personhood" used, or the idea implied. The entire issue arises because a clerk at the court, who wrote the brief, summarized the issue to force the question of corporate personhood, and since then we've used his summary to establish the concept, in spite of the actual court decision. Apparently the clerk was a member of Grant's corrupt administration who wanted it passed.

NOTE: I got this info from a speech by a pretty far leftist. I've never researched it independently. I mention it only as food for thought.

Truth Warrior
09-07-2008, 05:47 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

specsaregood
09-07-2008, 05:54 PM
link?!
Everytime this has come up in the forums I have tried in vain to find a link and have come up empty handed. I KNOW I read it, basically he was opposed to the corporate entity itself. But I sure can't find it anymore. :( I read so much of his stuff and watched so many of his interviews the past 2 years I don't even know where to start.

Truth Warrior
09-07-2008, 05:58 PM
Everytime this has come up in the forums I have tried in vain to find a link and have come up empty handed. I KNOW I read it, basically he was opposed to the corporate entity itself. But I sure can't find it anymore. :( I read so much of his stuff and watched so many of his interviews the past 2 years I don't even know where to start.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

Pauls' Revere
09-07-2008, 06:16 PM
It doesn't say anything about how covering corporations under our Constitution the same as people is bad. I need to see some examples. Maybe I'm not understanding what Nader is getting at fully, but considering a corporation equal to a person, meaning that they cannot use force or fraud against any other "person", seems like a pretty good idea to me.

Maybe he's missing the point? Since our Constitution is ignored, the government is allowed to unfairly help powerful corporations. I'm getting the feeling he's in the same mindset as my liberal friends. That since corporations run Washington, that legislation should consider corporations as something less than a person. Where I would argue that government should not have the power to help or hurt any person or corporation.

We have a Plutocracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy

TastyWheat
09-07-2008, 07:55 PM
I do agree with Nader on that issue, but he's still pretty anti-capitalist.