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AggieforPaul
09-05-2008, 07:18 PM
Ventura really grinds my gears. 9/11 truther, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration. Kokesh is a good speaker, but that line he gave sounded really violent and threatening. He also was part of a college campus student making fun of "conservo-fascists".

The day our movement becomes some crazy violent coup whose rally cries are proving 9/11 was an inside job, making it legal to abort, and opening the borders to every Mexican and Arab...

This isn't what Dr. Paul would want. He's not a truther, he's pro-life, he wants to secure the borders, and he even went as far as to vote in favor of giving no visas to students from terrorists nations during the Iranian hostage crisis.

I'm going to support B.J. Lawson, and other liberty minded individuals who share Ron Paul's values and my own values.

rbu
09-05-2008, 07:21 PM
Yes

berrybunches
09-05-2008, 07:22 PM
Ventura really grinds my gears. 9/11 truther, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration. Kokesh is a good speaker, but that line he gave sounded really violent and threatening. He also was part of a college campus student making fun of "conservo-fascists".

The day our movement becomes some crazy violent coup who's rally cries are proving 9/11 was an inside job, making it legal to abort, and opening the borders to every Mexican and Arab...

This isn't what Dr. Paul would want. He's not a truther, he's pro-life, he wants to secure the borders, and he even went as far as to vote in favor of giving no visas to students from terrorists nations during the Iranian hostage crisis.

I'm going to support B.J. Lawson, and other liberty minded individuals who share Ron Paul's values and my own values.


Its a big tent and we all have radical individualist ideas. Sorry if that's how you feel but I think its wonderful. Our founding fathers all had different beliefs too but they were able to bicker about those after they won their country.

How about we focus on our common goal of liberty and taking out country back instead of dividing ourselves over the small issues.

ifthenwouldi
09-05-2008, 07:25 PM
No, you weren't the only one. The two speakers you mentioned were my least favorite for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

Ron Paul has almost nothing in common with Ventura, and I'm sure he couldn't have been pleased with Kokesh's tenor.

I think we need to start looking at our priorities. The average voter would be thoroughly overwhelmed by the panorama of opinions from the rally.

AggieforPaul
09-05-2008, 07:26 PM
Its a big tent and we all have radical individualist ideas. Sorry if that's how you feel but I think its wonderful. Our founding fathers all had different beliefs too but they were able to bicker about those after they won their country.

How about we focus on our common goal of liberty and taking out country back instead of dividing ourselves over the small issues.

The thing is that we're never going to win if everyone thinks we're a bunch of tinfoil hate wearing 9/11 truth loons.

Ron Paul had the good sense in the debates to bring up Reagan's condemnation of irrational middle eastern politics, Taft's opposition to joining nato, Bush's promises in 2000 of a humble foreign policy, no nation building, no policing the world, Reagan's sympathy to a gold standard, the Republican platform's edict to abolish the department of education, etc.

He knew how to get Republicans to vote for him. A Ventura candidacy would just be a massive circle jerk that wouldn't attract any new voters.

gjvrieze
09-05-2008, 07:29 PM
At least with Ventura, he will not take our guns/arms away, and will not engage in big spending and forget about the debt... If we had a candidate on the 2 big dumbass parties with these beliefs, I would vote for him.....

JS4Pat
09-05-2008, 07:30 PM
Its a big tent and we all have radical individualist ideas. Sorry if that's how you feel but I think its wonderful. Our founding fathers all had different beliefs too but they were able to bicker about those after they won their country.

How about we focus on our common goal of liberty and taking out country back instead of dividing ourselves over the small issues.

+1 - but abortion is not a "small" issue to many of us.

Before becoming fully engrossed in the Ron Paul Freedom movement I could see myself making the same post as AggieforPaul.

Thanks Dr. Paul and Supporters - I feel much more comfortable and at peace with the outlook berrybunches describes.

AggieforPaul
09-05-2008, 07:30 PM
I agree Ventura could end up better than the establishment, but I'm not happy about the prospect of him being the future of the movement. I think we could do a lot better.

0zzy
09-05-2008, 07:33 PM
I love Kokesh, Ventura is overrated though.

american empire
09-05-2008, 07:34 PM
Adam Kokesh does more with actions than your mere words....referring to Mcaines speech.....I thought those two were the most awe inspiring speeches of the rally ...I dont agree with some of the paul supporters who dont believe we should get vaccinated but I respect their rights to believe so.....

I would definitely vote for ventura in 2012...thats the problem we have which the republikans and demokrats capitalize on...grouping oursleves into boxes so that anyone who doesnt fit in is either a loon, lefty liberal, right wing nutter , kook or whatever you want to call....what brings us together is our love for liberty and PERSONAL FREEDOM.....if some one wants to chose to kill her fetur..its their choice....if spmeone doesnt want to believe that 9/11 was done by some guys 3000 mile away...I have no right to tell them they are wrong...

jmdrake
09-05-2008, 07:41 PM
The thing is that we're never going to win if everyone thinks we're a bunch of tinfoil hate wearing 9/11 truth loons.


If everyone who discounts the official story about 9/11 had voted for Dr. Paul he would have won the republican nomination hands down.

berrybunches
09-05-2008, 07:41 PM
I love Kokesh, Ventura is overrated though.

I agree! I really like Kokesh. The good thing about Ventura is he says what we all think and people actually listen. (not on all issues I know) But I agree he isn't perfect.

-----------

I know those issues are not small to some but compared to the big picture they are small imo. Abortion issue is important but we have a lot of pro choice here I do not want ran out of the movement...we all need to work together before we are bankrupt and our sovereignty is gone along with any freedom we have left to resist.

I agree that 9/11 truth hurts us a lot. I wish people could see that. No one wants to think our government could do something like that so they will not listen...knowing gives responsibility. In 50 years they will listen after all responsibility to do anything is gone...just like Gulf of Tonkin.

Anyway, We need a little rebellion and anger sometime....getting angry is not bad. What works for some does not work for others and visa versa.

I love all you guys even though we disagree sometime. Like Ron Paul says "adults disagree and that's okay"

AggieforPaul
09-05-2008, 07:49 PM
Adam Kokesh does more with actions than your mere words....referring to Mcaines speech.....I thought those two were the most awe inspiring speeches of the rally ...I dont agree with some of the paul supporters who dont believe we should get vaccinated but I respect their rights to believe so.....

I would definitely vote for ventura in 2012...thats the problem we have which the republikans and demokrats capitalize on...grouping oursleves into boxes so that anyone who doesnt fit in is either a loon, lefty liberal, right wing nutter , kook or whatever you want to call....what brings us together is our love for liberty and PERSONAL FREEDOM.....if some one wants to chose to kill her fetur..its their choice....if spmeone doesnt want to believe that 9/11 was done by some guys 3000 mile away...I have no right to tell them they are wrong...

I don't accept your definition of liberty then. To me, defending liberty means caring so much about liberty and freedom that you spend your time guaranteeing that right to the least among us, like Dr. Paul has done. How can we protect liberty if we don't protect life?

Chiznaddy
09-05-2008, 07:50 PM
I agree with you, and think BJ Lawson should and will take the baton some day.

On the other hand, CFL should be the open tent that the GOP claims it is. Ventura and Kokesh may say things that are disagreeable or in a way that is overly confrontational, but that is much more of a blessing than an inconvenience of liberty.

AggieforPaul
09-05-2008, 07:58 PM
I agree with you, and think BJ Lawson should and will take the baton some day.

On the other hand, CFL should be the open tent that the GOP claims it is. Ventura and Kokesh may say things that are disagreeable or in a way that is overly confrontational, but that is much more of a blessing than an inconvenience of liberty.

I agree with you, Im just disappointed that they're the 2 who basically stole the show at the rally. To ever actually win anything, the CFL has to court "Republitarians". Ventura and Kokesh could never in a million years build a diverse enough coalition to win the Presidency.

The fact that Ron Paul united hardcore Christians and militant atheists, social conservatives and heavy drug users, etc. is a testament to the broad appeal of his policies.

Flash
09-05-2008, 08:08 PM
I liked Gary Johnson a lot, I feel he is underrated.

berrybunches
09-05-2008, 08:13 PM
I liked Gary Johnson a lot, I feel he is underrated.

I actually don't see how Kokesh and Ventura stole the show. Seems as if the people who felt they got too much attention are actually the ones who these 2 stood out to most.
Johnson stood out a lot for me as did a lot of the other speakers. I was very impressed by him and will probably send him a request to move to Ohio lol

luke-gr
09-06-2008, 07:40 AM
I'll be the first to admit that I am not up to speed on Ventura's politics. I have always been pro-choice myself, so the abortion issue has been kind of a moot point for me. I see choice as liberty though I do have issues with late term abortions. Difficult for me to draw a black and white line on that so I have come to accept (if not wholeheartedly agreeing with) Dr. Paul's ideas of being anti-abortion. It's just not my #1 topic.

Ron Paul commented, and I agree, that Ventura was fairly low key about 911. RP said maybe we are "calming him down" or some such.;) I think Ventura proprosed some good thought provoking questions. He did not mention our government only questioned why Bin Laden had not been charged with a crime like he had been previously.

The open border issue is a libertarian concern. Without our income tax and welfare system the open borders would not be such an issue. Sure, the ideas are a bit off the mainstream but isnt Ron Paul?

I like Kokesh. I think his speeches "jump off" too quickly and he would come across better by easing in and ramping up. I think we need one militant person instead of surrounding ourselves with authors and politicians. They inspire me. Many need to get mad before they commit to action.

acptulsa
09-06-2008, 08:29 AM
Yes

No.

The only thing that impressed me about either was the way they stirred people up. Ventura was platitudes and Kokesh was a liberty loving version of Che Guevara--over the top.

That said, they did stir people up, and that is (of course) valuable. People, the powers that be are having a good time throwing figureheads up for voters to trust (because they're obviously too stupid to come up with a grand scheme to rob them) and it is high time that we learn, and teach others, to look at who is behind the figurehead.

Now, looking behind the figurehead is a pain in the ass. Can't we just put intelligent people in charge? Some intelligent people are entirely trustworthy--and anyone who says otherwise is unjustly insulting a lot of people in this movement, including Ron Paul.

Well, we aren't enough numerically, so maybe we need to play the figurehead game. Pity. I'd rather just run honest, smart candidates. But, hey, in a television- and celebrity-driven society, maybe this is just what it takes.

Charles Wilson
09-06-2008, 09:09 AM
I liked all of the speakers regardless of their differences in style and substance. My thing above all else is "Liberty" for the individual to make his/her decisions as to what they like and not like.

The tenth amendment to the Constitution protects the liberty of "We The People" -- when it is enforced. All the various issues such as abortion rights, gay rights, religious freedom, etc., should be left to the individual states where the people are in control. If you do not agree with the laws in your state and find them offensive, move to another state that has laws more to your liking.

We must get the centralized Federal government out of our lives. The US has gradually evolved into a police state where freedom -- if you can call it that -- comes from the central government and not the people.

BTW: The centralized government is destroying our economy. As you may have noticed at the Democratic and Republican conventions, the people selected to represent the rest of us were a bunch of fat cats who have sold their souls to the devil. One group wants to eat the seed corn while the other group wants to subsidize the elite globalists by spending our tax payer dollars to prop up their global empire. That said, it is my understanding that most jobs and prosperity are generated by small business. The untimate small business is the individual tax payer -- we make the decisions as to where we invest our hard earned money that benefit the economy. Everytime our taxes are raised, the power of the people goes down. Every time the fat cats give our tax money to another country -- Georgia is a good example (1 billion dollars) -- power is taken from small business owners and the people and transferred to the globalists.

Something to think about when considering your vote this November.

Indy4Chng
09-06-2008, 09:21 AM
I liked Gary Johnson a lot, I feel he is underrated.

+1776. :D

I think he would unite us and be able to continue what Paul did bring in outsiders. Not true with Ventura, in fact I doubt I would even vote for him, he is not fiscally conservative, my biggest voting point.

Indy4Chng
09-06-2008, 09:23 AM
I actually don't see how Kokesh and Ventura stole the show. Seems as if the people who felt they got too much attention are actually the ones who these 2 stood out to most.
Johnson stood out a lot for me as did a lot of the other speakers. I was very impressed by him and will probably send him a request to move to Ohio lol

If Johnson ran for president in 2012 I am sure I would break into tears! 8 year governor... republican credible... hardcore fiscal conservative... what's not to love!

literatim
09-06-2008, 09:36 AM
I really hope Gary Johnson would run for the Republican nomination in 2012.

MsDoodahs
09-06-2008, 09:39 AM
I was also impressed with Johnson.

Ventura and Kokesh, not at all.

wd4freedom
09-06-2008, 09:41 AM
Ventura is a nut case and has serious elements of self-delusion.

Gary Johnson was the best Governor NM has had in its history and would make an excellent CIC. Yet I seriously doubt he would want it. He is just too independent and self-reliant to put up with political party bufoonmanship and idiocy.

trapfive
09-06-2008, 09:51 AM
Pro life-Pro choice is not, I repeat NOT the question we should be debating. The question is federalism v. anti-federalism.

Is abortion a federal issue? Does Congressman Paul support an admendment to the constitution banning abortion?

Dr. Paul has stated his view on this issue, do we not listen?

MsDoodahs
09-06-2008, 10:04 AM
Ventura is a nut case and has serious elements of self-delusion.

Agreed. Plus....he has that look that a lot of aging former wrestlers get...makes me think he was heavily into the steroids...


Gary Johnson was the best Governor NM has had in its history and would make an excellent CIC. Yet I seriously doubt he would want it. He is just too independent and self-reliant to put up with political party bufoonmanship and idiocy.

Which is exactly why he'd be perfect. :)

nayjevin
09-06-2008, 10:21 AM
I'd love to party with either one of them, but I'm not sure I'd have given either the microphone at the rally. CSPAN2 viewers just might not take their message well.

Powerful allies, and powerful speakers, but there's a time and a place for every message.

DSouthChi
09-06-2008, 10:24 AM
I liked Kokesh but couldn't stand Ventura.

911 truthers are an embarrassment and without them Ron Paul's efforts would be much more successful.

Second, Ventura seemed to suggest he could be our savior if we only earned his efforts. Something like he'll be watching to see if we rise up. Meanwhile, he's dropping out of Senate races he had a real chance of winning because he's afraid of the media.

Ventura can leave us alone for all I care.


Kokesh was great though. Yes, his statement was threatening, but he buffered it by first stating that we have to act civilly now, and only get violent if they take too much of our rights away. If our right to free-speech is taken away, it's tough to imagine any other way we could act.

Kludge
09-06-2008, 10:40 AM
I liked Kokesh but couldn't stand Ventura.

911 truthers are an embarrassment and without them Ron Paul's efforts would be much more successful.

Second, Ventura seemed to suggest he could be our savior if we only earned his efforts. Something like he'll be watching to see if we rise up. Meanwhile, he's dropping out of Senate races he had a real chance of winning because he's afraid of the media.

Ventura can leave us alone for all I care.


Kokesh was great though. Yes, his statement was threatening, but he buffered it by first stating that we have to act civilly now, and only get violent if they take too much of our rights away. If our right to free-speech is taken away, it's tough to imagine any other way we could act.

+1.... Ventura's "You get me ballot access on all 50 states and I could beat whatever the Repubs or Dems throw at me!" comment pissed me off... He's always so f'ing arrogant on air.

ClayTrainor
09-06-2008, 10:44 AM
I liked Kokesh but couldn't stand Ventura.

911 truthers are an embarrassment and without them Ron Paul's efforts would be much more successful.

Second, Ventura seemed to suggest he could be our savior if we only earned his efforts. Something like he'll be watching to see if we rise up. Meanwhile, he's dropping out of Senate races he had a real chance of winning because he's afraid of the media.

Ventura can leave us alone for all I care.



Your dissent is more justified than most but, like all "debunkers" and "anti-truthers" you also have not addressed Venturas Bin Laden questions.

Seriously, what's so "embarrassing" about those questions? They are perfectly legit and even ron paul admitted that. There was nothing Nuts or "embarrassing" about those questions.

Ventura is arrogant, and is very confident in himself. You may not like this but too bad for you... he's a man who can get the job done and has a very impressive resume, his arrogance is justified.

He's not afraid to admit that he didnt run for purely personal reasons. Also, his philosophy on public office is that you "get in, do your job and then leave".

he does not like "career politicians" and thinks that public offices should be held by the people, not career politicians. This is a very hard concept for a lot of people (like yourself) who have paid attention to the media their entire lives, to understand.

You can say all you want about Ventura and 911 truth but, your comments are more insulting than constructive.

I challenge you to give me a decent answer on Venturas questions, rather than just insulting him, and truthers such as myself. I used to be a "debunker" i've read the popular mechanics book, the commission report, watched many documentaries including 'screw loose change', and have paid attention to each and every NIST conference that has been held.

911 truth is not an embarrassment (although some of the dumbass truthers who dont do any research, give us that image) There are valid questions! You just choose to listen to the moron truthers who make baseless claims. I will admit there are alot of them but, that doesnt mean there arent just reasons for believing there was some sort of conspiracy behind 911. Just follow the money trails that financed the hijackers, and try to not find something suspicious.

Kokesh and Ventura are both true patriots to the core, and i dont doubt that both of them have some flaws but, They love and are willing to fight for freedom, and that's enough for me to support them if either of them run for office.

Not doing so will give the Rep's and Dems the advantage, yet again.

james1844
09-06-2008, 10:56 AM
Ventura really grinds my gears. 9/11 truther, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration. Kokesh is a good speaker, but that line he gave sounded really violent and threatening. He also was part of a college campus student making fun of "conservo-fascists".

The day our movement becomes some crazy violent coup whose rally cries are proving 9/11 was an inside job, making it legal to abort, and opening the borders to every Mexican and Arab...

This isn't what Dr. Paul would want. He's not a truther, he's pro-life, he wants to secure the borders, and he even went as far as to vote in favor of giving no visas to students from terrorists nations during the Iranian hostage crisis.

I'm going to support B.J. Lawson, and other liberty minded individuals who share Ron Paul's values and my own values.

BJ Lawson is a great candidate. He manages to convey the freedom message in a way that is acceptable to a mainstream audience.

While Guys like Kokesh and Ventura are important leaders in the freedom movement, BJ Lawson probably has more importance for mainstream politics.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-06-2008, 11:04 AM
Ventura really grinds my gears. 9/11 truther, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration. Kokesh is a good speaker, but that line he gave sounded really violent and threatening. He also was part of a college campus student making fun of "conservo-fascists".

The day our movement becomes some crazy violent coup whose rally cries are proving 9/11 was an inside job, making it legal to abort, and opening the borders to every Mexican and Arab...

This isn't what Dr. Paul would want. He's not a truther, he's pro-life, he wants to secure the borders, and he even went as far as to vote in favor of giving no visas to students from terrorists nations during the Iranian hostage crisis.

I'm going to support B.J. Lawson, and other liberty minded individuals who share Ron Paul's values and my own values.

lol. You make me giggle. Have it yor own way. While I don't feel the same reactionary sentiments, I do criticiZe both of those guys.

Ventura: 9/11 truth nut

Kokesh: annoying, probably a lefty cum guzzler

Printo
09-06-2008, 03:52 PM
What exactly did Kokesh say that was so threatening?

James Gragg
09-06-2008, 04:58 PM
I helped to negotiate that speaking slot for Adam Kokesh at the RFR, no kidding. That young man is defiantly "on fire" to save our country from total distruction. "Well who are you?" you might well ask. I'm one of the delegates to the RFR/C4L conventions, Kansas 4th, and you can check with Adam yourself, I set him up with Mike M... (from the "walk across America" group) to give up his time to Adam. I also helped, on the ground, to run the last two "Ronvoy" events.

In this discussion, I have a couple of questions that I must ask: 1. Is he wrong? 2. Have we all but exhausted all other "peaceful" means to restore our republic? 3. Do we have the "luxury of time" to wait out another sham "election" and attempt to alter anything against a bought and paid for "press" that is entertainment driven, placated news events and a corporate paid for Congress? 4. What difference does an "alternative press" make if the vast majority of "THE PUBLIC" never sees it, and the "issues" raised are never discussed openly and honestly?


The phrase that Adam used "With your blood or ours, we have come to water the tree of liberty!" keeps ringing in my ears, hauntingly so. Are we there yet? If not, when? Do we wait until there are mushroom clouds on our horizons caused by this "neo-conned" agenda, BEFORE we do more than just raise our voices?


HOW LONG AMERICA? WAKE UP!

porcupine
09-06-2008, 05:12 PM
You're not the only one, I'm sure, but having watched Ventura for a long time, I'm not impressed with him.

RockEnds
09-06-2008, 05:14 PM
I got to listen to him a little at the campfire the night before. He seems like a nice kid. I get the impression that maybe several people here are unfamiliar with 1)Marines 2)guys who were in Fallujah. They may just be a little shocked. I'm from an AF family, but hey, we know some Marines. ;) And the kids from the Guard Unit here in town were in Fallujah. It was a bad place. A really bad place. My heart aches for them. But it was real. It happened. And they did what they had to do. I'm sorry it upsets some people here. They're more upset. Really.

DSouthChi
09-08-2008, 08:47 PM
I challenge you to give me a decent answer on Venturas questions, rather than just insulting him, and truthers such as myself. I used to be a "debunker" i've read the popular mechanics book, the commission report, watched many documentaries including 'screw loose change', and have paid attention to each and every NIST conference that has been held.

911 truth is not an embarrassment (although some of the dumbass truthers who dont do any research, give us that image) There are valid questions! You just choose to listen to the moron truthers who make baseless claims. I will admit there are alot of them but, that doesnt mean there arent just reasons for believing there was some sort of conspiracy behind 911. Just follow the money trails that financed the hijackers, and try to not find something suspicious.

To be honest, I don't have any problems with people speculating or engaging in conspiracy theories. I do it all the time. In fact, I even subscribe to a 9-11 truth magazine(didn't know it was when I ordered it but I still read and enjoy it). I wouldn't be surprised if the attacks actually were a conspiracy.

But there is a time and a place to speculate, and you certainly have to be aware of your public perception. Listening to Coast-to-Coast am or sharing ideas during a poker game is one thing, but associating a political movement you believe in to a concept that most people are disgusted by is entirely another. There is nothing to gain from publicly associating yourself with the 9-11 truth movement.

People will:

A: Think you hate America
B: Think you're delirious

Considering the way Ron's competition has effectively branded him as "whacky" makes it all the more important for 9-11 truthers to go away.

Until there is a better environment for government transparency, 9-11 truthers need to shut up, or at least stay away from Ron Paul and his events. They are making it harder for all of us.

Bman
09-08-2008, 09:21 PM
I don't accept your definition of liberty then. To me, defending liberty means caring so much about liberty and freedom that you spend your time guaranteeing that right to the least among us, like Dr. Paul has done. How can we protect liberty if we don't protect life?


Hey look I know Ron Paul is a Pro-Lifer. And there certainly is strong merit in the case. But the whole not liking someone for not being pro-life is silly. The reason is becasue you are simply casting everyone who is pro-choice into a catergory of being heartless individuals who are a bunch of baby killers. It's just not the case. I have many problems with the pro-life movement and feel free to debate. I'd say to watch George Carlins Back in Town if you'd like to see where I'm coming from.

There's one area I really do not see eye to eye with Ron Paul and that is pro-life. Not to mention making abortions illegal does not stop abortions. It's a moral dilemma. Yes it is true life begins at conception. But it's also true that there is a difference from being in the womb as compared to being outside of the womb.

Personally, I'd like to keep Government out of the decision I would have to make, and base my thought s on individual cases.

For one. Wouldn't forcing a raped girl to keep the baby be a violation of her rights?

Ventura's not a bad person. Nor does he have a bad overall message. He's just not on the side of the christian right when it comes to morality.

And Adam Kokesh is awesome. People like him are some of the main reasons freedom exists.

idiom
09-08-2008, 09:38 PM
We have to get abortion *out* of federal politics.

It hamstrings everything else. And besides, the Repubs don't even mean it.

Bman
09-08-2008, 09:48 PM
we have to get abortion *out* of federal politics.

It hamstrings everything else. And besides, the repubs don't even mean it.

+1,000,000

luaPnoR
09-08-2008, 10:12 PM
You're not the only one. He's a good speaker and knows how to get everyone fired up. I did like many of the things he had to say. I especially liked the, "Ta hell with the Patriot Act!" line.

I'm not a truther but I do wonder why Osama hasn't been charged. I mean, if that's true why has that not been talked about? Fishy.

I didn't really like that part about, "If you guys work hard and get out there and be active then I'll be your man in 2012"... like if we do all the work then he'll run for president. Nice.

I'm WAY pro-life (but it should not be a Fed Gov issue) so he gets a check mark for that. and I'm against illegals so he gets another check mark.

And he needs a haircut. :)

JoshLowry
09-08-2008, 10:33 PM
I'm against illegals so he gets another check mark.


Are you against illegal immigration or is it all the free handouts we give them?

georgiapeach
09-08-2008, 10:41 PM
I got to listen to him a little at the campfire the night before. He seems like a nice kid. I get the impression that maybe several people here are unfamiliar with 1)Marines 2)guys who were in Fallujah. They may just be a little shocked. I'm from an AF family, but hey, we know some Marines. ;) And the kids from the Guard Unit here in town were in Fallujah. It was a bad place. A really bad place. My heart aches for them. But it was real. It happened. And they did what they had to do. I'm sorry it upsets some people here. They're more upset. Really.

Exactly!

If you have spent a lot of time around military people, particularly the ones that have had troops under them, you will find that they do occasionally come on a bit strong. That goes for even the ones that haven't been in bad spots like he was. For some of us that tend to be more behind-the-scenes kind of people,like myself, it takes some getting used to.
Personally, I enjoyed his speech a lot. I even made my Dad watch it when he came over the next day.

Dsylexic
09-09-2008, 02:28 AM
The day our movement becomes some crazy violent coup whose rally cries are proving 9/11 was an inside job, making it legal to abort, and opening the borders to every Mexican and Arab...

.


You sound like a racist bigot -especially with your reference to Mexicans and Arabs.
First of all, hardly any arab wants to come into america unlike many poor and desperate Mexicans. The Arabs, on the other hand, want Americans to get out of their countries. You might realise that if you paid more attention to Dr Paul.

Also, abortion is not an issue that needs to be debated at the national level.It doesnt matter what you and I think, it should be decided at the local level.

Finally,Ron Paul is for "true immigration reform". Which means, people from ALL countries will be able to migrate to the US without stupid green cards or waiting times :The only thing that will make this possible is the elimination of the welfare state which will remove the perverse incentives for illegal immigration.The end goal however remains free immigration.

Anti Federalist
09-09-2008, 04:18 AM
The thing is that we're never going to win if everyone thinks we're a bunch of tinfoil hate wearing 9/11 truth loons.

Ron Paul had the good sense in the debates to bring up Reagan's condemnation of irrational middle eastern politics, Taft's opposition to joining nato, Bush's promises in 2000 of a humble foreign policy, no nation building, no policing the world, Reagan's sympathy to a gold standard, the Republican platform's edict to abolish the department of education, etc.

He knew how to get Republicans to vote for him. A Ventura candidacy would just be a massive circle jerk that wouldn't attract any new voters.

If he knew how to get republicans to vote for him, why didn't they?

The republican party no longer stands for the things you mentioned.

What Ventura said is a valid warning, this heavily armed wall that everyone seems keen on building could just as easily turn into a wall to keep all of us, in.

9/11, yeah, I know, you and your fellow travelers have made it very clear, "nuts, loons, idiots, assholes, shut up, get out". Too bad, I'm not going anywhere, eff you very much.

And Kokesh being "too harsh"? Jesus weeping christ on the cross, is this the Ron Paul "Care Bear Warm Happy Snuggle" movement or the Ron Paul Revolution?

The nation is tottering on the edge of financial insolvency, non sanctioned war has killed a million people, the Bill of Rights is on fire, and a high tech, fully militarized police state is waiting in the wings to bash skulls and get us all in line when the wheels finally fall off this mess, and some people still want to pussy foot around and get the vapors when somebody like Kokesh or Ventura comes out and forcefully calls all this shit out???

Danke
09-09-2008, 04:52 AM
Adam could go far: good looks, can speak, and sneaky!

Indy4Chng
09-09-2008, 12:41 PM
I think Ventura would single handling cripple this movement. I would not only not vote for him but I would actively campaign against him.

We are so close to becoming mainstream and you want to pick the one guy that will drive us to the fringe FOREVER!! I guess if we want a liberty debate club for the next 100 year he is your candidate. We have four years... if it is not Gary Johnson, someone else will step up.

reduen
09-09-2008, 01:14 PM
Ok, does Ventura remind anyone else of like Benjamin Franklin on steriods?

I think of that every time I see him...:eek:

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
09-09-2008, 02:50 PM
I agree with you, Im just disappointed that they're the 2 who basically stole the show at the rally. To ever actually win anything, the CFL has to court "Republitarians". Ventura and Kokesh could never in a million years build a diverse enough coalition to win the Presidency.

If we can get regular people involved in the process again, I disagree.

Most people I run into have still never heard of Paul. They're people who no longer believe they can have an impact. They're people who know they're getting screwed whether republicans or democrat win, and so they've stopped wasting their time worrying about it.

Those are the people we need.

ClayTrainor
09-09-2008, 03:22 PM
I think Ventura would single handling cripple this movement. I would not only not vote for him but I would actively campaign against him.

We are so close to becoming mainstream and you want to pick the one guy that will drive us to the fringe FOREVER!! I guess if we want a liberty debate club for the next 100 year he is your candidate. We have four years... if it is not Gary Johnson, someone else will step up.

I imagine you're probably an "anti-truther" and believe Jesse would drive us to the fringe due to 911 truth?

Correct me if im wrong.

I believe you are correct to an extent but, if Jesse ran with someone like ron paul or Gary Johnson at his side, (VP or P) Jesse would be toned down.

There's nothing wrong with questioning 911, and we should be encouraged to do so but, making baseless claims is what we must not do.

I believe Jesse understands this and if he had Ron Paul at his side, RP would keep him in line and they would discuss exactly how far to go into the topic.

I.e. The question jesse asked about Bin laden at the R4R was completely legit and something we should all think about, no matter which side of the spectrum you sit on.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=154162

What else is it about Ventura that makes you think we'll be painted as fringe?

Scribbler de Stebbing
09-09-2008, 03:40 PM
At least with Ventura, he will not take our guns/arms away, and will not engage in big spending and forget about the debt...

Jesse does indeed engage in big spending. He brought us the light rail boondogle, increased spending for government schools, and anything he liked. Jesse is about Jesse. He cut taxes on luxury sports cars. Jesse owns luxury sports cars.

We're taking a real hit here in MN for having Jesse in. Our more conservative talk hosts declined to attend because Jesse was there. One news org credited the Rally turnout to Ventura. After all that work and money, they'd damn well credit the honorable Dr Paul.

SeanEdwards
09-09-2008, 06:38 PM
The end goal however remains free immigration.

No it doesn't.

There's plenty of good reasons besides the expense of a welfare state to manage and limit immigration. Every country on the planet, except for the U.S., places limits on immigration and scrutinizes every potential immigrant before allowing them entry.

Motherfuckers with incurable TB and AIDS and other nasty communicable diseases don't have a right to immigrate to my country. I don't give a fuck about their suffering. What a tragedy, now GTFO.

Same goes for people with violent criminal records. They can stay the fuck out too.

And all the open border cosmo-libertarian dipshits can join them.

Defining Obscene
09-09-2008, 07:37 PM
No it doesn't.

There's plenty of good reasons besides the expense of a welfare state to manage and limit immigration. Every country on the planet, except for the U.S., places limits on immigration and scrutinizes every potential immigrant before allowing them entry.

Motherfuckers with incurable TB and AIDS and other nasty communicable diseases don't have a right to immigrate to my country. I don't give a fuck about their suffering. What a tragedy, now GTFO.

Same goes for people with violent criminal records. They can stay the fuck out too.

And all the open border cosmo-libertarian dipshits can join them.

I agree with the criminal records, but barring the sick from entering? I don't see how the constitution would support such a thing unless they show the intent to hurt others with it. Telling someone to go die in a corner is not the American way, especially if they took the path to legal citizenship; they're at least responsible. Unless these people are huffing airborne diseases, I see no reason to reject them. They way you phrase that, it sounds like you would support a pseudo-scientific gestapo to rubber stamp those who are fit to live - leave that to Planned Parenthood.

SeanEdwards
09-09-2008, 07:55 PM
I agree with the criminal records, but barring the sick from entering? I don't see how the constitution would support such a thing unless they show the intent to hurt others with it. Telling someone to go die in a corner is not the American way, especially if they took the path to legal citizenship; they're at least responsible. Unless these people are huffing airborne diseases, I see no reason to reject them. They way you phrase that, it sounds like you would support a pseudo-scientific gestapo to rubber stamp those who are fit to live - leave that to Planned Parenthood.

I don't give a shit if it's fair or legal. Letting plague carriers enter your country is stupid. Shall we all die in order to protect our image? WTF is that?

Defining Obscene
09-09-2008, 08:27 PM
I don't give a shit if it's fair or legal. Letting plague carriers enter your country is stupid. Shall we all die in order to protect our image? WTF is that?

If you don't give a shit if its fair or legal, then why should they? :confused: You can't deny the fact there is already diseases in this country, do you think we should deport the sick? How about if we abort the children who are sick so they can't spread it? Perhaps forced sterilization for public safety? Or we could just skip all that nonsense and move right to enclosed camps. Just some suggestions, freund.


Not sure how AIDS and TB has gotten your feathers in such a ruffle, I doubt you know anyone who actually has these diseases. But I assure you, they didn't choose to get them, and if they were ignorant of them, they will suffer and die in the perfect world. Unless, however, they are responsible people who will work hard to pay for medication and a 2nd chance at life, rather than expect a government handout which has been happening is sure to come in greater force when pseudo-universal healthcare arrives. Believe it or not, the free market doesn't yield it very profitable to catch diseases. We are not all going to die because of a natural plague, maybe an engineered one, in which those SHOULD be held accountable, but remember that the constitution is there to protect the minority from the majority, not to perpetuate a phobia of sick people.

Just some thought.

SeanEdwards
09-09-2008, 08:42 PM
If you don't give a shit if its fair or legal, then why should they? :confused: You can't deny the fact there is already diseases in this country, do you think we should deport the sick? How about if we abort the children who are sick so they can't spread it? Perhaps forced sterilization for public safety? Or we could just skip all that nonsense and move right to enclosed camps. Just some suggestions, freund.


Not sure how AIDS and TB has gotten your feathers in such a ruffle, I doubt you know anyone who actually has these diseases. But I assure you, they didn't choose to get them, and if they were ignorant of them, they will suffer and die in the perfect world. Unless, however, they are responsible people who will work hard to pay for medication and a 2nd chance at life, rather than expect a government handout which has been happening is sure to come in greater force when pseudo-universal healthcare arrives. Believe it or not, the free market doesn't yield it very profitable to catch diseases.
Just some thought.

It doesn't matter if these people are responsible for their disease, or perfectly innocent victims. This is not a value judgement on people, it's a matter of public health policy. Communicable diseases are a real threat to everyone. And I'm not just talking about the diseases we know about today. I'm saying that as a general policy matter, the state should try to prevent deadly plagues from crossing our borders. That is a gigantic DUH! Bubonic plague doesn't care about your morals. Ebola isn't concerned with how nice and good of a person you are. It's tragic that people get sick and die, but that's no excuse to put a bunch of healthy people at risk.

In fact, there are already laws on the books that prohibit carriers of dangerous communicable diseases from immigrating to the US. But since millions and millions of immigrants routinely ignore our laws, we are getting steadily increasing numbers of "third world" maladies affecting American society. Do you really think you're going to guilt trip me into living with malaria, TB, Dengue fever, west nile virus, etc, because turning plague carriers away at the border would be "mean"? Good luck with that.

Defining Obscene
09-09-2008, 09:03 PM
It doesn't matter if these people are responsible for their disease, or perfectly innocent victims. This is not a value judgement on people, it's a matter of public health policy. Communicable diseases are a real threat to everyone. And I'm not just talking about the diseases we know about today. I'm saying that as a general policy matter, the state should try to prevent deadly plagues from crossing our borders. That is a gigantic DUH! Bubonic plague doesn't care about your morals. Ebola isn't concerned with how nice and good of a person you are. It's tragic that people get sick and die, but that's no excuse to put a bunch of healthy people at risk.

In fact, there are already laws on the books that prohibit carriers of dangerous communicable diseases from immigrating to the US. But since millions and millions of immigrants routinely ignore our laws, we are getting steadily increasing numbers of "third world" maladies affecting American society. Do you really think you're going to guilt trip me into living with malaria, TB, Dengue fever, west nile virus, etc, because turning plague carriers away at the border would be "mean"? Good luck with that.

Dangerous communicable diseases being the key phrase. Easily transmittable ones should absolutely be rejected IF the infected person chooses not to get treatment. The solution would be to direct those people to a source where they can receive help, rather than reject them flat out. Instead of them trying to come here, finding out they are sick, and denying them, we should make a path in which they can get the help they need while they are here, as a condition for citizenship (in the case of easily transmitted disease). A lot of people can't get the help they need in their country, what if someone came here just to get help? Denying people help because they are sick; I think you see the terrible policy there. It would put foreign money into the medical field, people would get their treatment, and become citizens ---- or if they choose not to exhaust all their options, then its their loss and they don't get to stay. I think (hope) you can agree with that.

Dsylexic
09-10-2008, 02:35 AM
Dangerous communicable diseases being the key phrase. Easily transmittable ones should absolutely be rejected IF the infected person chooses not to get treatment. The solution would be to direct those people to a source where they can receive help, rather than reject them flat out. Instead of them trying to come here, finding out they are sick, and denying them, we should make a path in which they can get the help they need while they are here, as a condition for citizenship (in the case of easily transmitted disease). A lot of people can't get the help they need in their country, what if someone came here just to get help? Denying people help because they are sick; I think you see the terrible policy there. It would put foreign money into the medical field, people would get their treatment, and become citizens ---- or if they choose not to exhaust all their options, then its their loss and they don't get to stay. I think (hope) you can agree with that.

Very nice. The forefathers of the founding fathers of America brought small pox and other deadly diseases to the native americans and wiped out entire generations. Now you want to play health-license-permit-bureaucrat and decide who is in and who is out. diseases have nothing to do with immigration. when droves of poor europeans immigrated in the early part of the century, they were 'quarantined' in case they suffered from diseases. thats how epidemics are controlled -communicable or otherwise. A well known and well accepted method of temporary isolation (even NASA astronauts are quarantined on return from the Moon) should be applied.Once it is determined they dont possess a threat to public health, they can be let in.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-10-2008, 06:06 AM
Very nice. The forefathers of the founding fathers of America brought small pox and other deadly diseases to the native americans and wiped out entire generations. Now you want to play health-license-permit-bureaucrat and decide who is in and who is out. diseases have nothing to do with immigration. when droves of poor europeans immigrated in the early part of the century, they were 'quarantined' in case they suffered from diseases. thats how epidemics are controlled -communicable or otherwise. A well known and well accepted method of temporary isolation (even NASA astronauts are quarantined on return from the Moon) should be applied.Once it is determined they dont possess a threat to public health, they can be let in.

That's darwinism though. The immune system of the indians couldn't take it, what can I say? Libertarians believe in free trade and travel, so there is no reason not to think that they wouldn't have become infected by means of trade and travel. Shit happens.

Defining Obscene
09-10-2008, 06:10 AM
Very nice. The forefathers of the founding fathers of America brought small pox and other deadly diseases to the native americans and wiped out entire generations. Now you want to play health-license-permit-bureaucrat and decide who is in and who is out. diseases have nothing to do with immigration. when droves of poor europeans immigrated in the early part of the century, they were 'quarantined' in case they suffered from diseases. thats how epidemics are controlled -communicable or otherwise. A well known and well accepted method of temporary isolation (even NASA astronauts are quarantined on return from the Moon) should be applied.Once it is determined they dont possess a threat to public health, they can be let in.

So America should have never happened for the safety of the native Americans? And I thought my stance was fringe. You sir, take the cake :( I'm sure you'll make an exception for that, a "they were patriots" of sorts.

Dsylexic
09-10-2008, 06:30 AM
So America should have never happened for the safety of the native Americans? And I thought my stance was fringe. You sir, take the cake :( I'm sure you'll make an exception for that, a "they were patriots" of sorts.


No, all I am saying is that it is immoral to take an illiberal stand on immigration(ofcourse with the caveat that the welfare state should end first) mainly because the USA is a country of immigrants. The nation was founded by immigrants and it should remain free for immigration.
(false) patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel,as Samuel Johnson said,especially if it is based on "we are the best and you can go to hell " kind of sentiments .
US was created in 1776,but this land existed before 1776 and was witness to immense brutalities. That should never be forgotten. The native americans didnt say to the Europeans -go to hell you carriers of small pox. The conflict was only because the europeans forcibly occupied their lands.

btw, the history books taught to kids in our schools need to start much before 1776 -the history of the european conquest of the americas should also be taught.otherwise it is another brainwashing session.

Dsylexic
09-10-2008, 06:39 AM
That's darwinism though. The immune system of the indians couldn't take it, what can I say? Libertarians believe in free trade and travel, so there is no reason not to think that they wouldn't have become infected by means of trade and travel. Shit happens.


i have no problem with darwinism.-except the free trade and travel should continue even now irrespective of health conditions .commonsense quarantine measures are valid safety precautions and can be applied on sick immigrants like it used to be earlier.

Defining Obscene
09-10-2008, 10:55 AM
no, all i am saying is that it is immoral to take an illiberal stand on immigration(ofcourse with the caveat that the welfare state should end first) mainly because the usa is a country of immigrants. The nation was founded by immigrants and it should remain free for immigration.
(false) patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel,as samuel johnson said,especially if it is based on "we are the best and you can go to hell " kind of sentiments .
Us was created in 1776,but this land existed before 1776 and was witness to immense brutalities. That should never be forgotten. The native americans didnt say to the europeans -go to hell you carriers of small pox. The conflict was only because the europeans forcibly occupied their lands.

Btw, the history books taught to kids in our schools need to start much before 1776 -the history of the european conquest of the americas should also be taught.otherwise it is another brainwashing session.

qft.

berrybunches
09-10-2008, 12:28 PM
No, all I am saying is that it is immoral to take an illiberal stand on immigration(ofcourse with the caveat that the welfare state should end first) mainly because the USA is a country of immigrants. The nation was founded by immigrants and it should remain free for immigration.
(false) patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel,as Samuel Johnson said,especially if it is based on "we are the best and you can go to hell " kind of sentiments .
US was created in 1776,but this land existed before 1776 and was witness to immense brutalities. That should never be forgotten. The native americans didnt say to the Europeans -go to hell you carriers of small pox. The conflict was only because the europeans forcibly occupied their lands.

btw, the history books taught to kids in our schools need to start much before 1776 -the history of the european conquest of the americas should also be taught.otherwise it is another brainwashing session.

Sir, I would be delighted to take this unpopular stance with you. As a lover of tribalism and true history and an anti-statist you hit the nail on the head for me.
I could give a crap less about the United States, all I care about is humanity, ecology and freedom.
Sure a republican form of government is just fine but the end DOES NOT justify the means (that's neocon talk)
What the European settlers did to the Indians dwarfs Hitlers genocide of the Jews.

H Roark
09-10-2008, 01:39 PM
Ventura really grinds my gears. 9/11 truther, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration. Kokesh is a good speaker, but that line he gave sounded really violent and threatening. He also was part of a college campus student making fun of "conservo-fascists".

The day our movement becomes some crazy violent coup whose rally cries are proving 9/11 was an inside job, making it legal to abort, and opening the borders to every Mexican and Arab...

This isn't what Dr. Paul would want. He's not a truther, he's pro-life, he wants to secure the borders, and he even went as far as to vote in favor of giving no visas to students from terrorists nations during the Iranian hostage crisis.

I'm going to support B.J. Lawson, and other liberty minded individuals who share Ron Paul's values and my own values.

+1

I'm holding judgment on Kokesh because I haven't seen enough of him. I do like the fact he put Bob Barr on blast at the press conference... :D

But I totally agree with you in regards to Ventura. The guy is an inarticulate oof and is nowhere near the level of understanding RP has on the issues. Nevermind the fact he lives in Mexico, the MSM would have a field day with that if he ever decided to run.

RPDelegate
09-11-2008, 07:51 AM
Ventura really grinds my gears. 9/11 truther, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration.

I assume you're getting this from some other source other than his speech at the Rally?

Because the only thing I heard him mention about 9/11 is why has Bin Laden not been charged, yet our government in the media says he was behind it. Why is 9/11 not listed as one of his crimes on the FBI web site. I think these are valid questions. I'm not crazy, but I would like to know the answers to these questions as well. I mean, most people, when they kill one person usually get caught and put in the prison the rest of their lives. Bin Laden has killed thousands, and he's still on the loose?!?! And I've heard of no attempts to capture him in years now.

The only thing I heard him mention in his speech about immigration was that he didn't want to see a huge wall get built. And think most people agree with that as well. No where in his speech did he say he is fine with illegals coming over and taking our jobs.

Pro-choice, I am personally fine with. It's never been on my plate as a major concern of mine. Even RP doesn't want to completely ban abortion. He just wants to leave it up to the states to decide and leave the Federal government out of it.

Adam Kokesh
09-11-2008, 10:31 AM
I'm not really impressed with that Kokesh guy either. Crazy fucking vet with PTSD! But at least he has better hair than Ventura! That's gotta count for something!

Sorry, the Marine Corps didn't teach me to pull punches. Ever. And I don't intend to. Ever.

As for the conservativo-fascists on my campus, yes, neocons who use fear tactics like "Islamo-fascism Awareness Week" deserve to be called out as fascists. BTW, it was David Horowitz behind that one. Anyone here a fan of Horowitz? Didn't think so.

yokna7
09-11-2008, 10:49 AM
Ventura really grinds my gears. 9/11 truther, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration. Kokesh is a good speaker, but that line he gave sounded really violent and threatening. He also was part of a college campus student making fun of "conservo-fascists".

The day our movement becomes some crazy violent coup whose rally cries are proving 9/11 was an inside job, making it legal to abort, and opening the borders to every Mexican and Arab...

This isn't what Dr. Paul would want. He's not a truther, he's pro-life, he wants to secure the borders, and he even went as far as to vote in favor of giving no visas to students from terrorists nations during the Iranian hostage crisis.

I'm going to support B.J. Lawson, and other liberty minded individuals who share Ron Paul's values and my own values.

Yeah, I think Venturas presence at the Rally damaged the Rallys credibility a little bit. But i also think his line "Don't ever let anyone tell you that your vote was wasted, If your heart is not behind your candidate...." and so on, was a very powerful part of the rally. With that said, I respect Jesse Ventura because he is one of the few that says exactly what he feels and he found a way to get into office. Ya gotta love that.

acptulsa
09-11-2008, 10:59 AM
I'm not really impressed with that Kokesh guy either. Crazy fucking vet with PTSD! But at least he has better hair than Ventura! That's gotta count for something!

:D Doesn't work for me, but thumbs up from me!

RockEnds
09-11-2008, 11:19 AM
But at least he has better hair than Ventura! That's gotta count for something!



Actually, it wasn't your hair that we were admiring. :o

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1657239#post1657239

amy31416
09-11-2008, 11:24 AM
I'm not really impressed with that Kokesh guy either. Crazy fucking vet with PTSD! But at least he has better hair than Ventura! That's gotta count for something!

Sorry, the Marine Corps didn't teach me to pull punches. Ever. And I don't intend to. Ever.

As for the conservativo-fascists on my campus, yes, neocons who use fear tactics like "Islamo-fascism Awareness Week" deserve to be called out as fascists. BTW, it was David Horowitz behind that one. Anyone here a fan of Horowitz? Didn't think so.

Come on now, Kokesh is also a snappier dresser. How could you forget that?

He's also the one who occasionally says some things that scare people or make them uncomfortable. Good for him.

amy31416
09-11-2008, 11:25 AM
Actually, it wasn't your hair that we were admiring. :o

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1657239#post1657239

Subtle, RockEnds, very subtle. :D

RockEnds
09-11-2008, 11:26 AM
Subtle, RockEnds, very subtle. :D

Thanks. :cool:

Seriously, though. His courage is quite admirable.

reduen
09-11-2008, 11:36 AM
I'm not really impressed with that Kokesh guy either. Crazy fucking vet with PTSD! But at least he has better hair than Ventura! That's gotta count for something!

Sorry, the Marine Corps didn't teach me to pull punches. Ever. And I don't intend to. Ever.

As for the conservativo-fascists on my campus, yes, neocons who use fear tactics like "Islamo-fascism Awareness Week" deserve to be called out as fascists. BTW, it was David Horowitz behind that one. Anyone here a fan of Horowitz? Didn't think so.

I personally do not believe in being violent my man but if more good people were as brave as you are, America would be a much better place in which to live, that is for sure. :cool: (assuming that this is the real Kokesh of course....)

Adam Kokesh
09-11-2008, 12:49 PM
I don't "believe in being violent" either. I meant punches metaphorically here. But I am not afraid to use violence when all other means have been exhausted. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible . . . "

It is important we bring the same commitment to our cause as our founders did.

berrybunches
09-11-2008, 12:51 PM
Actually, it wasn't your hair that we were admiring. :o

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1657239#post1657239

and look at the pervert who posted this picture. Shamless.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=153914&page=17

Us ladies can get a little out of hand, sorry Adam.

georgiapeach
09-11-2008, 12:52 PM
It is important we bring the same commitment to our cause as our founders did.

Amen to that!

RockEnds
09-11-2008, 12:54 PM
and look at the pervert who posted this picture. Shamless.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=153914&page=17

Us ladies can get a little out of hand, sorry Adam.

It was DAFTEK. He was just on a testosterone high. It happens. :) We were all in shock and awe over the appearance at McCain's speech. I think it was actually our admiration that spawned this thread more than anything Adam said or did.

berrybunches
09-11-2008, 12:56 PM
I don't "believe in being violent" either. I meant punches metaphorically here. But I am not afraid to use violence when all other means have been exhausted. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible . . . "

It is important we bring the same commitment to our cause as our founders did.

"make violent revolution inevitable"

Although I believe in peace and non-violence we have to understand it could come to this. Just think if they tried to take away our guns people.

"the beauty of the 2nd amendment is it will not be needed until the government tries to take it away" - thomas jefferson


EDIT

I also want to say, about commitment, would anyone here actually sign a document knowing that the government would be out the next day to hunt you down and kill you as was done with the declaration of independence? Do we have that commitment? I think Adam does. But hell, most here are afraid not to file income taxes in fear of a few months in jail. Protest and rallies are well and good but they don't amount to anything.

edit again: I don't think Ventura has this type of commitment although I think he serves a purpose in helping us reach our goals.

georgiapeach
09-11-2008, 01:03 PM
Although I believe in peace and non-violence we have to understand it could come to this. Just think if they tried to take away our guns people.

"the beauty of the 2nd amendment is it will not be needed until the government tries to take it away" - thomas jefferson

Oooo thanks for that quote! That should go into my 2nd amendment project.

The_Orlonater
09-12-2008, 04:37 PM
This movement is diverse. No one here agrees with Ron Paul 100%.

I'm pro-choice, deal with it.

I didn't really care for Kokesh, to be honest.I like the guy and he probably is a better speaker then me, but I didn't care too much. This movement has gotten pretty truther, though.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-12-2008, 04:46 PM
This movement is diverse. No one here agrees with Ron Paul 100%.

I'm pro-choice, deal with it.

I didn't really care for Kokesh, to be honest.I like the guy and he probably is a better speaker then me, but I didn't care too much. This movement has gotten pretty truther, though.

This movement always had a truther element.

dcbpe
09-14-2008, 08:00 PM
No, you are not the only one.

However, my personel opinion of these two men is meaningless. And so are those of everyone else here.

We need to entice the silent and apathetic masses to join our cause...a cause that is about much more than Adam Kokesh and Jesse Ventura. The problem is that having these two men in the forefront makes recruitment more dificult.

The vast majority of people cannot get behind the 9/11 truther logic...they don't yet beleive that goverment is bad enough to be systematically screwing them with inflation, they certainly can't take the leap of faithlessness in their government to believe that it could kill so many innocents for financial gain.

Having a guy like Adam talking about watering the tree of liberty smacks of a bit more revolution than most people are willing to see themselves commiting. Again, they are still having a hard time with the whole idea that maybe government isn't here to help them...how are they suppose to be driven to the verge of open warfare before they have even harnessed the anger they ignore with their apathy?


Those people who are "close" to joining us need to be brought into the fold with baby steps...they need to be slowly weened of the indoctrination they've recieved for their entire lives and slowly, methodically, shown how the government has been screwing them personally. The personal affronts of their government need to be used to cure their apathy.

Once it's personal, once they are engaged and with us, then they can conceptualize that maybe the truthers have some valid points, and so too may Adam. At least, they will be able to understand that the movement is about more than just them...which "outsiders" do not understand right now.

In other words, Jesse and Adam represent welcomed sects within this movement that are not so welcomed outside of us. They need to be quiet in order to bring more people to the cause to hear their case.