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Austin
09-05-2008, 08:11 AM
I was talking to a friend of mine in a business class seems to have a particular liking for Obama. I asked him to explain why he favored Obama over McCain. I also asked him why I should vote for Obama. He was able to come up with 7 reasons to vote for Obama, and I think they are all terrible. I have my own logic to combat them, but I'd like some assistance from you folks. Here is the list.

1. He’s younger than McCain
2. Universal Health Care
3. He’s in touch with the American people (non-elitist)
4. Pro-Amnesty
5. Lower taxes on 99% of population
6. More prone to negotiation
7. Well liked around the world, better relations with allies

While some of these points appear to be true on the surface, most don't hold any weight when you delve deeper into the reality of the issues.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-05-2008, 08:18 AM
I was talking to a friend of mine in a business class seems to have a particular liking for Obama. I asked him to explain why he favored Obama over McCain. I also asked him why I should vote for Obama. He was able to come up with 7 reasons to vote for Obama, and I think they are all terrible. I have my own logic to combat them, but I'd like some assistance from you folks. Here is the list.

1. He’s younger than McCain
2. Universal Health Care
3. He’s in touch with the American people (non-elitist)
4. Pro-Amnesty
5. Lower taxes on 99% of population
6. More prone to negotiation
7. Well liked around the world, better relations with allies

While some of these points appear to be true on the surface, most don't hold any weight when you delve deeper into the reality of the issues.

1. What if Stalin was younger than his political opponent? Does that mean anything? No.

2. Socialized healthcare. If your friend believes in that, he's very foolish. I mean, do we still have to argue against it? It's shit. And Obama, doen't believe in single payer universal healthcare.

3. In touch, how? He's CFR. He is RICH. He was never middleclass or poor. What bullshit

4. Pro-statism. The difference between your open borders libertarans and pro-amnesty Obama is agenda: libertarians want free trade and travel. Obama wants corporate exploitation of poor immigrants. Why do you think they al contribute to his campaign?

5. lower taxes? LOL. Are you kidding me? He wants to RAISE taxes. No democrat lowers taxes.

6. More than whom? Barr? I think not. Negotiate what? People's rights away? LOL

7. Yes. He's liked y the socialists around the world. I agree there.

Bob Barr 2008

Kade
09-05-2008, 08:23 AM
Just to throw this out there... he will lower taxes for majority of Americans... and my bet is most of you on this forum.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-05-2008, 08:24 AM
Just to throw this out there... he will lower taxes for majority of Americans... and my bet is most of you on this forum.

but won't cut spending. and lower taxes? dude, democrats lowering taxes? that never happens.

Kade, we both support dual healthcare, but we both know that isn't what Obama's offering.

Kade
09-05-2008, 08:31 AM
but won't cut spending. and lower taxes? dude, democrats lowering taxes? that never happens.

Kade, we both support dual healthcare, but we both know that isn't what Obama's offering.

I think he is offering dual healthcare... I think it would be impossible to strip the private sector, and hopefully not what he plans to do... I'd put my money on it and my reputation.

That being said, Obama actually does have numbers... numbers that someone can look through and decide for themselves...

His numbers increase federal spending less than 5% in the next four years, and give tax cuts to the bottom 90% of income earners.

His idea for an extremely transparent budget, with line-item spending, and his


His peer pressure foreign policy is questionable, his FISA vote pissed me off, his expansion desires for Faith Based Initiatives are absurd.

The money will come from cut spending in Defense and the military industrial complex. That Obama explains where his money is coming from, and how it won't be borrowed, is a SEVERE improvement over our current situation, in which we pay a "Inflation Tax" on the worthless dollar because our glorious President is printing money as if it were toilet paper... (his uses the Constitution, however).

On the other side, McCain hasn't said a damn word about where he plans to pay for anything at all in the government... he has an imaginary overall tax cut that will, without a doubt, help very wealthy people, who no doubt have worked hard to earn and keep their inheritance and estates in order.

libertea
09-05-2008, 08:33 AM
I have my own logic to combat them,...


Logic won't work. Emotion works. Sorry, I'm left brain, all I know is logic so I can't help.

Raditude
09-05-2008, 08:53 AM
I was talking to a friend of mine in a business class seems to have a particular liking for Obama.

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/facepalm.jpg

Your friend is naive. Re-educate him.


1. He’s younger than McCain

Whoopdy do. With age comes wisdom and experience. Something Obama doesn't have


2. Universal Health Care

Destined for failure. Long lines at the ER, docs who don't care about patients, because they have no incentive to work. Pharmaceuticals who don't produce any more medicines because they don't have incentive to work.


3. He’s in touch with the American people (non-elitist)

In touch my butt. He's a phony, and the only people he's in touch with are the people who stupid enough to drink his Kool-Aide


4. Pro-Amnesty

Why should we give amnesty to a bunch of ILLEGAL immigrants who came up here to take our jobs, our welfare and social security?


5. Lower taxes on 99% of population

Right, :rolleyes: we've heard that before.


6. More prone to negotiation

Negotiation and appeasement of terrorists is a bad thing.


7. Well liked around the world, better relations with allies

Also liked by our terrorists and enemies. Hmmmm, gee I wonder why they like him?

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
09-05-2008, 09:05 AM
Just to throw this out there... he will lower taxes for majority of Americans... and my bet is most of you on this forum.

The rule pertaining to this topic is highlighted while commentary follows:

The 14 Rules of Legal Abstinence
To establish an American movement, here are 14 rules of legal abstinence to follow:

Rule #1. Never have too many rules.

Rule #2. Hate is un-American.

Rule #3. Never blame the people.

Rule #4. Never use the political spectrum as a playing field to bicker about politics.

Rule #5. Never give an interview with the media that isn't spontaneous, unedited and unrehearsed.

Rule #6. As Protestants worship the singular Civil-Purpose of the Holy Word in the bible over worshipping the legal precedent rituals established by the authority of the Pope and the Vatican, the singular Civil-Purpose in the Constitution should be consecrated likewise over the traditional legal precedents established by the authority of tyranny.

Rule #7. As law abiding American citizens, we should prefer imprisonment, torture, death and even the frangrance of an outhouse to that of legal tyranny.(Never smile in a courtroom. Always show up as late as possible while leaving as quickly as possible.)

Rule #8. As a winning political campaign is a victory for tyranny, establishing a bipartisan American Movement is a victory for the people.

Rule #9. False American Movements are Administrations which fail to implement fresh measures while they dig up to implement obsolete legal precedents from the past. (American Movements lead Americans back to the consecration of the Civil Purpose in the Constitution, the Founding Fathers, the formal documents of The Declaration of Independence and The U.S. Constitution, and to improvements in contentment in the lives of Americans while altering, tweaking, clarifying and ammending the Constitution, our lightingning in a bottle so to speak, as little as possible. A false American Movement, on the other hand, just tells us what we want to hear.)

Rule #10. The debt of the people should not be burdened with any legal counterfeit created by any foreign or domestic tyranny. (If THE PEOPLE must spend 20 trillion to fix a divided national dinner table created by a tyranny who spent 10 trillion to do so, so be it. The people must own the purse!)

Rule #11. As legal lobbying on the Federal level benefits the rule of tyranny, the civil invention rewarded on the local level benefits the rule of the people. (The local invention of a comfortable chair created to make THE PEOPLE "happier" is far greater in value than the Federal lobbying that takes place of tyranny which serves to divide our national dinner table all in the name of "responsibility.")

Rule #12. There are 3 kinds of people: those with feeble minds who persecute people, those with immature minds who laugh about persecution, and those with the kinds of sober minds that get persecuted. To be an American is always to be the latter.

Rule #13. As our Founding Fathers established themselves on the foundation of a great history, tyranny establishes itself as its own foundation.

Rule #14. Taxes are created with the intentions of benefitting some while cheating others. (Give 10% to the widows and orphans and be governed by the pure hearts of the widows and orphans)

After tyranny wins an election, in order to guarantee that it wins the next term it will spend the first four years appeasing the losing party, spend two years of its second term fulfilling its original agenda for the winning party, and then, ideally speaking, spend the last two years of the eight year maximum once again appeasing the opposing party to guarantee that the party once again wins the presidency. So, in victory the winning party gets two years to the losing party getting six. This is insanity and is the reason why the people never win in petty campaigns. The victory for the people is in the acheivement of a bipartisan American Movement to tweak the system, which can last for decades. Bipartisan American Movements consecrate the Truth which is how real change is manifest. The power of the Truth is either greater than tyranny or we have never really been Americans.

Truth Warrior
09-05-2008, 09:11 AM
The Difference between Democrats and Republicans
http://differencebetweendemocratsandrepublicans.com/

An accurate, quick and easy read.<IMHO>

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
09-05-2008, 09:30 AM
The Difference between Democrats and Republicans
http://differencebetweendemocratsandrepublicans.com/

An accurate, quick and easy read.<IMHO>

I think that symbol of the elephant/donkey is a socialistic endeavor that greatly misses the mark.

The purpose of American Movements, as in *Transcendentalism, is to fix the two party system. It isn't to establish a totalitarian single party system. At times we need to find that which is common amongst Americans, our soul together so to speak, which is expressed as self evident truths and unalienble natural rights that reduce, once again, beyond even the ideal of the mind to be indelibly imprinted, like DnA, on the conscience of the American soul. That is the significance of John Locke's natural right.

*Transcendentalism is the word used for that particular American Movement so that it won't be confused with Eastern Transcendentalist or Transcendental religions.

Truth Warrior
09-05-2008, 09:39 AM
I think that symbol of the elephant/donkey is a socialistic endeavor that greatly misses the mark.

The purpose of American Movements, as in *Transcendentalism, is to fix the two party system. It isn't to establish a totalitarian single party system. At times we need to find that which is common amongst Americans, our soul together so to speak, which is expressed as self evident truths and unalienble natural rights that reduce, once again, beyond even the ideal of the mind to be indelibly imprinted, like DnA, on the conscience of the American soul. That is the significance of John Locke's natural right.

*Transcendentalism is the word used for that particular American Movement so that it won't be confused with Eastern Transcendentalist or Transcendental religions. Opinion noted. :rolleyes:

Well I'd just say that the transcendentalists just FUBARd, if they had ANY impact at all. The parties are still just as broken, criminal, corrupt and barbaric as ever. :) Maybe now, even worse.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
09-05-2008, 09:47 AM
Opinion noted. :rolleyes:

Well I'd just say that the transcendentalists just FUBARd, if they had ANY impact at all. The parties are still just as broken, corrupt and barbaric as ever. :) Maybe now, even worse.

On one level, America does have its partisan political spectrum while on another level it has a political spectrum with the legal precedence of tyranny on one far end and the American Movement to consecrate the Constitution's Civil-Purpose on the other.

It has been said that America slept after its Enlightment period and didn't bother to wake until Ralph Waldo Emerson shined a light on the Founding Fathers, The Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.

Many also think that the Union didn't truly exist until Abraham Lincoln saved it.

(Even others think the state of California is a wicked whore because she was never saved by Lincoln. But I must totally disagree with this contention!)

Truth Warrior
09-05-2008, 09:50 AM
On one level, America does have its partisan political spectrum while on another level it has a political spectrum with the legal precedence of tyranny on one far end and the American Movement to consecrate the Constitution's Civil-Purpose on the other.

It has been said that America slept after its Enlightment period and didn't bother to wake until Ralph Waldo Emerson shined a light on the Founding Fathers, The Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.

Many also think that the Union didn't truly exist until Abraham Lincoln saved it.

(Even others think the state of California is a wicked whore because she was never saved by Lincoln. But I must totally disagree with this contention!)

The Federal Constitution Is Dead (http://www.lewrockwell.com/gutzman/gutzman17.html)
Kevin Gutzman on who killed it.

libertea
09-05-2008, 10:57 AM
The Difference between Democrats and Republicans
http://differencebetweendemocratsandrepublicans.com/

An accurate, quick and easy read.<IMHO>

I was expecting a blank page.

azminuteman
09-05-2008, 11:45 AM
Just to throw this out there... he will lower taxes for majority of Americans... and my bet is most of you on this forum.

It really pains me to think that when people hear of Obama's tax plan that people won't get hurt by it.

It's the same as if he were to say "Cheap bottled water for everyone!" but at the cost of the local well.


You know who will be hurt by this?
Your community.

Look at your local family businesses that pays taxes quarterly that will get hurt:

Landscaper that makes $500,000 a year with 5 employees.
Your local veterinarian.
Your local physician.
Your local pediatrician.
Your local fast food franchisee owner (not part of an investment group) that used to also donate to little league but can't now.
Local print shop owner.
Your local IT support firm that supports business's network needs.
Your local pest control guy.
Your local HVAC guy.


Obamas tax plan is class warfare and removes an incentive to want to succeed.

Truth Warrior
09-05-2008, 12:09 PM
I was expecting a blank page. That's the Cliff Notes version. :D

JoshLowry
09-05-2008, 12:10 PM
8. He is a reptile.

While this point appears to be true on the surface, it doesn't hold any weight when you delve deeper into the reality of the issue.

AutoDas
09-05-2008, 12:41 PM
Sure he won't tax the average family directly, he'll just tax them out of all the goods and services they could have bought with their money and use it for the "poor" and under developed" countries. Has your friend taken a look at Obama's budget? He's not going to get all of that achieved by lowering taxes. Every tax that is passed is taking something out of the economy and giving it to the government or they will raise the standard of living for the average citizen through inflation taxing since we are the last recipients to use the extra printed dollars.

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
09-05-2008, 12:46 PM
Just to throw this out there... he will lower taxes for majority of Americans... and my bet is most of you on this forum.

So let;s say he does lower taxes for most of us (which I disagree with but for arguments sake, let's say he does). Does he plan on doing diddly about the Federal Reserve? What about those corporate taxes he wants to hike? Will that not cause corporations to raise the prices of goods? So basically will we not be putting out the same exact amount of money if not more under an Obama administration?