how your vote this year affects metrics for the 2012 election(please consider)

[BarryDonegan]

these are what the metrics are going to be for 2012, based on the consequence of your vote this year. these metrics are used by the MSM to prejudge candidates for coverage(which affected us greatly this year)

a vote for obama - liberalism is popular. candidates who pander with poor voting records are popular. third parties are not viable

a vote for mccain - liberalism is popular. libertarianism, paleoconservatism, and social conservatism no longer need a voting record and rhetoric to their goals to earn their vote; they are a guaranteed demographic. third parties are not viable.

a vote for barr - libertarianism is gaining in popularity. mccain's record is too liberal. obama's war position is too neoconservative. third parties are becoming more popular. people are dissatisfied with major party platforms.

a vote for baldwin - mccain's record is too liberal. obama's war position is too neoconservative. third parties are becoming more popular. people are dissatisfied with major party platforms.

a vote for McKinney - the democratic party's acceptance of endless war policy and corporate welfare is alienating the base. third parties are becoming more popular. compassionate liberals aren't fooled by the DP any more.

a vote for Nader - the democratic party's acceptance of endless war policy and corporate welfare is alienating the base. third parties are becoming more popular. compassionate liberals aren't fooled by the DP any more.

if you are SERIOUSLY considering throwing away the idea of voting your conscience and are wanting to vote tactically, please consider the actual metrics of your vote.

[New York For Paul]

You make a persuasive case. I will wait to decide near election day.

[MGreen]

Your vote for Barr section should include, "convinces the Libertarian Party that they should move more towards conservatism." If you think that's good, vote for him. If you don't, please consider it when making your choice.

[georgiaboy]

bump

[BarryDonegan]

Your vote for Barr section should include, "convinces the Libertarian Party that they should move more towards conservatism." If you think that's good, vote for him. If you don't, please consider it when making your choice.

its not like george phillies is on the ballot for some other party. the constitution and lib. tickets, the only ones with a remotely libertarian platform are both decidedly conservative.

the metric you are talking about happened during the primary process ;)

[Bradley in DC]

Interesting.

[phree]

if you are SERIOUSLY considering throwing away the idea of voting your conscience and are wanting to vote tactically, please consider the actual metrics of your vote.

Maybe you haven't looked at this from every angle: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=153458

[josephadel_3]

Good points. Don't forget Nader. I voting Nader as a protest vote, because Barr and Baldwin both failed to make the ballot in my state.

[Rhys]

these are what the metrics are going to be for 2012, based on the consequence of your vote this year. these metrics are used by the MSM to prejudge candidates for coverage(which affected us greatly this year)

a vote for obama - liberalism is popular. candidates who pander with poor voting records are popular. third parties are not viable

a vote for mccain - liberalism is popular. libertarianism, paleoconservatism, and social conservatism no longer need a voting record and rhetoric to their goals to earn their vote; they are a guaranteed demographic. third parties are not viable.

a vote for barr - libertarianism is gaining in popularity. mccain's record is too liberal. obama's war position is too neoconservative. third parties are becoming more popular. people are dissatisfied with major party platforms.

a vote for baldwin - a vote for barr - mccain's record is too liberal. obama's war position is too neoconservative. third parties are becoming more popular. people are dissatisfied with major party platforms.

a vote for McKinney - the democratic party's acceptance of endless war policy and corporate welfare is alienating the base. third parties are becoming more popular. compassionate liberals aren't fooled by the DP any more.

if you are SERIOUSLY considering throwing away the idea of voting your conscience and are wanting to vote tactically, please consider the actual metrics of your vote.

You are exactly right.

[pahs1994]

Good points. Don't forget Nader. I voting Nader as a protest vote, because Barr and Baldwin both failed to make the ballot in my state.

which state is that? The LP website says that a few states are still pending and that sigs have been handed in

[josephadel_3]

which state is that? The LP website says that a few states are still pending and that sigs have been handed in

http://www.ballot-access.org/ballot-chart.html - Maine

[BarryDonegan]

Maybe you haven't looked at this from every angle: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=153458

i didn't consider that angle one of them, because that is just you falling for or preaching democrat propaganda. I don't mean that to be harsh or mean, but, let's be serious, there is no way on earth that you can say that if 100% of ron paul supporters voted for Obama, that it would in any way tactically help us elect anyone, ever. We would have record poor third party turnouts, the democratic party would gain all the metrics, and you would likely have a socialist state. every single terrible thing he did would be done with the justification of a huge popular vote. he will likely win either way, and if, for some reason, he doesn't win, it will be because of a scandal so bad that no one will think of him as a martyr. there has never been an election in the history of the two parties where that same exact excuse hasn't been used to justify voting for the "lesser of two evils".

seriously, Obama being or not being a martyr has nothing to do with the advancement of the liberty movement. we will not get a candidate in office by preventing an individual from having a certain reputation. if we do not show ourselves as a quantifyable force, we will never get candidates in office. I'm sorry, but your thread is so damaging to the liberty movement, I would hope that you would voluntarily delete it.

this is the same justification that every candidate, ever, in the history of the world, stole 3rd party votes, which, if the dumb "lesser of two evils" garbage wasn't going on, we'd have this election already.

[BarryDonegan]

Good points. Don't forget Nader. I voting Nader as a protest vote, because Barr and Baldwin both failed to make the ballot in my state.

I edited the post to include Nader.

good call.

[BarryDonegan]

bumping this one over the weak "vote for obama" thread. help keep this one up, it doesn't have the same incendiary title, but the content will really help.

[Kade]

these are what the metrics are going to be for 2012, based on the consequence of your vote this year. these metrics are used by the MSM to prejudge candidates for coverage(which affected us greatly this year)

a vote for obama - liberalism is popular. candidates who pander with poor voting records are popular. third parties are not viable

a vote for mccain - liberalism is popular. libertarianism, paleoconservatism, and social conservatism no longer need a voting record and rhetoric to their goals to earn their vote; they are a guaranteed demographic. third parties are not viable.

a vote for barr - libertarianism is gaining in popularity. mccain's record is too liberal. obama's war position is too neoconservative. third parties are becoming more popular. people are dissatisfied with major party platforms.

a vote for baldwin - mccain's record is too liberal. obama's war position is too neoconservative. third parties are becoming more popular. people are dissatisfied with major party platforms.

a vote for McKinney - the democratic party's acceptance of endless war policy and corporate welfare is alienating the base. third parties are becoming more popular. compassionate liberals aren't fooled by the DP any more.

a vote for Nader - the democratic party's acceptance of endless war policy and corporate welfare is alienating the base. third parties are becoming more popular. compassionate liberals aren't fooled by the DP any more.

if you are SERIOUSLY considering throwing away the idea of voting your conscience and are wanting to vote tactically, please consider the actual metrics of your vote.


Liberalism is not popular... hell you folks don't even know what it is--again, stfu.

[BarryDonegan]

Liberalism is not popular... hell you folks don't even know what it is--again, stfu.

you misunderstood the post. when i say "liberalism" i mean modern american political liberalism, not classical liberalism.

i also didn't say that liberalism is popular, i said that these are the messages that these particular votes will send to the politicians, who tend to adjust their messages based on what they think will get traction.

i'm talking about the long term effects of your vote, for future metrics, next time we have a candidate and they are judging if they "can" or "can't" win based on prior statistics.

[Kade]

you misunderstood the post. when i say "liberalism" i mean modern american political liberalism, not classical liberalism.

i also didn't say that liberalism is popular, i said that these are the messages that these particular votes will send to the politicians, who tend to adjust their messages based on what they think will get traction.

i'm talking about the long term effects of your vote, for future metrics, next time we have a candidate and they are judging if they "can" or "can't" win based on prior statistics.

I have 3 choices and my vote isn't really going to count for much.

[BarryDonegan]

if you study the american history of electoral politics, you would see clearly that even losing votes have a great significance.

even if the party you are voting for never fields a winner, if it gains a certain minute amount of traction, the major parties will begin to farm their main platform for ideas to win close elections. this is how american party platforms are created. often, however, a party will implode because of its platform losing the people, as you can see the republican party doing today... this results in the rise of new "major parties" throughout history.

also, minor shifts in metrics can affect ballot access, debate access, and credibility in future elections.

this is just a proven, well-known fact. if it was impossible to have an impact outside of two parties... how would we have the parties we have today?

voting for the presidential winner has an immediate effect, voting for other candidates has a 8-20 year affect.

[tangowhiskeykilo]

http://www.ballot-access.org/ballot-chart.html - Maine

wow i guess OK is the only state where no third party made it on the ballot:mad:... fuck you OK.

Guess that means I'm staying home cause write ins here don't count.

[Matt Collins]

Liberalism is not popular... hell you folks don't even know what it is--again, stfu.Woah... no need for the rude language.

And yes modern day liberalism |= classical liberalism.

[Matt Collins]

if you are SERIOUSLY considering throwing away the idea of voting your conscience and are wanting to vote tactically, please consider the actual metrics of your vote.Excellent point. I am undecided as to whether or not I am going to vote for Barr or Baldwin. But by not voting for the GOP a message is definitely sent!

We didn't get Regan until after we suffered through Carter. Maybe we'll have to suffer through Barrack in order to get someone else.


I look forward to seeing you in the future at some of our Nashville events.

[-lotus-]

Maybe you haven't looked at this from every angle: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=153458

ignore this

[BarryDonegan]

wow i guess OK is the only state where no third party made it on the ballot:mad:... fuck you OK.

Guess that means I'm staying home cause write ins here don't count.

go 100 ft from the polls and hold up signs indicating that you are not able to vote your conscience because of OK laws.

[BarryDonegan]

Excellent point. I am undecided as to whether or not I am going to vote for Barr or Baldwin. But by not voting for the GOP a message is definitely sent!

We didn't get Regan until after we suffered through Carter. Maybe we'll have to suffer through Barrack in order to get someone else.


I look forward to seeing you in the future at some of our Nashville events.

totally! I'll be at all the CFL stuff, I've been at the LP meetings and JBS stuff out in middle tenn lately, so I'll be seeing you at the CFL things from here on out.

during the ron paul meetups i was on tour the whole time, so i was never in TN, haha. I did get to slimjim in Iowa and NH right before the primaries, though, snuck out into the night by myself and did the deeds.

[BarryDonegan]

bumpery

[pahs1994]

http://www.ballot-access.org/ballot-chart.html - Maine

http://www.lp.org/ballot-access

According to the LP page (if i am understanding the chart right) they handed in enough sigs to get Barr on the ballot, but not the full slate of LP candidates. I think there was some issues with them being handed in alittle late. But I think Barr will be on the ballot there.

[BarryDonegan]

yeah there is often a huge disparity between the number of sigs for the two types of ballot access.

in TN its easy to get a candidate on, nigh impossible to get the party listed.

[Matt Collins]

in TN its easy to get a candidate on, nigh impossible to get the party listed.Yes, and to get a write-in vote candidate counted, one must submit a form to every county office in the state :rolleyes: