Confusion after watching the roll call

[thx1149]

I'm hoping someone, maybe a delegate after they get home can help us out here. A lot of us are very confused as to what happened.

1. When they asked if there was anyone else to nominate did anyone nominate Paul? I know they just moved on, but some people are saying they heard Paul being nominated. Were the microphones cut? What happened there?

2. Some states didn't list all their votes? Were these all/mostly Paul votes?

3. Some states with pledges to Paul came out all McCain. What happened there? How could they do this? Can anyone vouch that their vote was ignored, and if so why were they silent?

4. Delegates: Why didn't you speak up or make a scene at the cheating. When at the end the question was asked whether anyone disagreed with the vote, there was silence. Where were the RP delegates? It seems that states were leaving out votes, the GOP announced the wrong amounts, they disrespected us by not calling out our votes (even though the called Romney's), and yet there was no opposition? Not even a statement calling to attention the mistakes or disrespect?

5. The silly unanimous thing. Why didn't anyone oppose it? It would have lost, but opposition symbolically would effectively show that it wasn't unanimous. Why the silence?


Saying all this, I greatly appreciate what our delegates have done. Now I'm just trying to understand what went wrong. It seems there definitely was corruption and I'm having great trouble comprehending the silent response to it all, even when there were very proper opportunities to speak up.

Thanks.

[txrep]

I'm hoping someone, maybe a delegate after they get home can help us out here. A lot of us are very confused as to what happened.

1. When they asked if there was anyone else to nominate did anyone nominate Paul? I know they just moved on, but some people are saying they heard Paul being nominated. Were the microphones cut? What happened there?

2. Some states didn't list all their votes? Were these all/mostly Paul votes?


3. Some states with pledges to Paul came out all McCain. What happened there? How could they do this? Can anyone vouch that their vote was ignored, and if so why were they silent?

4. Delegates: Why didn't you speak up or make a scene at the cheating. When at the end the question was asked whether anyone disagreed with the vote, there was silence. Where were the RP delegates? It seems that states were leaving out votes, the GOP announced the wrong amounts, they disrespected us by not calling out our votes (even though the called Romney's), and yet there was no opposition? Not even a statement calling to attention the mistakes or disrespect?

5. The silly unanimous thing. Why didn't anyone oppose it? It would have lost, but opposition symbolically would effectively show that it wasn't unanimous. Why the silence?


Saying all this, I greatly appreciate what our delegates have done. Now I'm just trying to understand what went wrong. It seems there definitely was corruption and I'm having great trouble comprehending the silent response to it all, even when there were very proper opportunities to speak up.

Thanks.


1. You must win the required number of primaries/caucuses to be placed into nomination. No other candidates qualified for this except John McCain. Someone yelled "Ron Paul" ...there was no microphone to be cut. It could have just been some random person. Only official delegates can nominate.

2. It does not matter because the only choices are 1) Those placed into nomination who are eligible or 2) abstain/not voting...since McCain was the only candidate nominated and eligible any votes for other candidates are counted as "other".

3. If someone is "pledged" to a candidate they only remain pledged if that candidate is eligible to be nominated. Romney, Paul, Huckabee, etc were not eligible or were not placed into nomination, thus their delegates automatically become released.

4. Because there were and now are technically 0 Ron Paul delegates because once the roll call began, the only candidate eligible was McCain. They either became McCain or Not Voting.

[thx1149]

1. You must win the required number of primaries/caucuses to be placed into nomination. No other candidates qualified for this except John McCain. Someone yelled "Ron Paul" ...there was no microphone to be cut. It could have just been some random person. Only official delegates can nominate.

2. It does not matter because the only choices are 1) Those placed into nomination who are eligible or 2) abstain/not voting...since McCain was the only candidate nominated and eligible any votes for other candidates are counted as "other".

3. If someone is "pledged" to a candidate they only remain pledged if that candidate is eligible to be nominated. Romney, Paul, Huckabee, etc were not eligible or were not placed into nomination, thus their delegates automatically become released.

4. Because there were and now are technically 0 Ron Paul delegates because once the roll call began, the only candidate eligible was McCain. They either became McCain or Not Voting.

I still see a problem here. What you are saying sounds sensible, but I'm still not fully getting it.

There were states where we had bound delegates and then all delegates went to McCain. Are we to believe that the Paul delegates of many states that were bound to him chose to vote McCain instead of abstaining?

Some states read off Paul and others just gave lower numbers for McCain than the numbers of delegates in the state. Is it in the state's authority to make a decision on that? And if so, who has the authority in the state? The person who happens to be speaking?

What I'm really curious about is why nobody spoke up. There was a time of silence where people could have spoken if the votes were mishandled, but nobody did. Does this imply that the bound Paul people really in many cases went for McCain? And nobody stood against the motion for unanimity. I could understand a lot of people wouldn't want to, but I'm surprised we didn't have one delegate who was willing to speak up as a symbol.

[thx1149]

The answers start coming in:

http://newsok.com/oklahomas-ron-paul-supporters-upset-by-roll-call-said-they-wont-sit-with-delegation-tonight/article/3292929

I wonder how many delegates Paul lost because of this sort of thing.

I'm not sure if my memory is perfect, but here is what I think we have so far. Any corrections?

Alaska 5
Washington 4
Oregon 4
West Virginia 2
Oklahoma 2 (never called. see above link)

And so that would have put us at 17. It will be interesting to see what more we find out when the delegates return home and tell their stories.

[MozoVote]

If McCain has not received a majority last night, they would have started another ballot and called for nominations again. Even though the secretary counted a handful of Paul and Romney votes at the end, they were technically irrelevant. The only valid votes were McCain, or abstain.

[thx1149]

If McCain has not received a majority last night, they would have started another ballot and called for nominations again. Even though the secretary counted a handful of Paul and Romney votes at the end, they were technically irrelevant. The only valid votes were McCain, or abstain.

I don't think anyone contests that. What we want was a fair vote, including a fair count. McCain wins either way, but that doesn't excuse cheating and corruption in the counting process.

[forsmant]

two from Nebraska.

[thx1149]

Answers are coming in now:


Regarding the Nevada Delegates:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1652135&postcount=32

Regarding the Massachusetts delegates:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1653888&postcount=36



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I thank the delegates that are speaking up and explaining what happened. Everything makes perfect sense to me and I understand and respect your decisions. Most of us that are part of this movement really appreciate all that you have done.

[mamakar]

My thanks to all delegates for what must have been a very frustrating experience. You had tough decisions and from what I read did an excellent job of planning for the future.

[orafi]

I really wanted to see Ron Paul thrash Obama in the debates :(

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

Minnesota cast 6 votes for Ron Paul, but they were not counted. So instead of reporting 41 votes, our state only reported 35. This after our delegation was promised their Ron Paul votes would be counted.

[Bradley in DC]

I explained this in January but most people weren't paying attention yet:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=104384


. . . In order to be eligible to be nominated at all [RNC Rule 40(b) (http://www.gop.com/About/Rules31-41.htm)], one requirement is to win the majority of delegates in five states (including DC and territories, RNC Rule 27 (http://www.gop.com/About/Rules21-30.htm)).

[acptulsa]

Isn't it a beautiful thing how carefully the G.O.P. rules are crafted to allow for just anything at all except dissent? You may vote for the officially sanctioned candidate even if not one Republican in your whole state voted for the bastard, but try to vote your conscience and you're risking jail time depending on your state. Just lovely.