Anyone else unusually excited about 2012 election?

[AJ Antimony]

Ever since watching the rally, I've found myself surprisingly giddy and excited about what may happen in the 2012 election.

First thing that came to mind of course was Jesse Ventura. He's another Ross Perot waiting to happen. A few months ago, in a Minnesota Senate poll, he came in third with 24% and this was as an independent and without ever actually declaring a Senate run. I'd imagine he'd start a presidential campaign at 5-10% and would have a very good chance at making the debates and according to his optimism "beat em."

Then of course I thought about the idea of Ron deciding to try one more time for the Republican nomination. This year he was the darkest of horses. He was so dark even light couldn't escape his grasp. Nonetheless he received over 1 million votes and outperformed favorites Thompson and Giuliani in every way. Paul without a doubt would perform much better if he tried one more time.

Then throw in the factor that the economy will get worse with Obama presiding, and we may have a very good year for a liberty candidate.

Oh yeah, and Ventura/Paul '12 :D

[MRoCkEd]

Paul should run for the republican nomination while jesse is working on ballot access. If Ron wins, Jesse just joins him as vp. If Ron loses, he joins jesse as vp on the independent ticket.

:)

[nullvalu]

again.. what are you all missing about what Ron Paul suggested in his speech last night? It's OUR responsibility to make change happen NOW. Not <insert name here>'s responsibility in 2012.

[FrankRep]

again.. what are you all missing about what Ron Paul suggested in his speech last night? It's OUR responsibility to make change happen NOW. Not <insert name here>'s responsibility in 2012.

Yeah, we need to start building a solid and efficient structure right now. When 2012 comes around we'll own the election.

[nullvalu]

Yeah, we need to start building a solid and efficient structure right now. When 2012 comes around we'll own the election.

maybe

i guess it depends on how badly Obama/McCain F' things up and whether people chose to wake up.

our problem has been how to wake people up effectively. we need to come up with a winning formula for this. as i'm sure we've all seen in the RP campaign - you can't free someone who wants to be a slave.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

We have 4 years of a LOT of hard work to get Ron Paul elected in 2012. Let's not be thinking we can't start this effort TODAY! We need to be active Campaigners of Liberty. We can rest a bit in 4 years. For now, let's freaking get to it!!!

An no, not Ventura/Paul. Perhaps Paul/Ventura, but I'd prefer Paul and that guy from New Mexico that was at the RFTR. What was his name?

[nate895]

We have 4 years of a LOT of hard work to get Ron Paul elected in 2012. Let's not be thinking we can't start this effort TODAY! We need to be active Campaigners of Liberty. We can rest a bit in 4 years. For now, let's freaking get to it!!!

Set up a Draft website and PAC, and get monetary pledges, as well as volunteer pledges.

[pacelli]

Yeah, we need to start building a solid and efficient structure right now. When 2012 comes around we'll own the election.

Fully agree. No matter who we get behind, it will be someone. We need to get a good base going, and 4 years will give me plenty of time to save up another $4600 to drop for the first moneybomb.

[leipo]

Paul can only run in 2012 if Obama wins this year, right?

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Right... I think we need something like a party that is not really a party. Something anyone can be a part of without feeling like they are leaving their party to offer support to another. Am I making sense? Some kind of real membership, a real PAC, but crossing all party lines with only one focus, the promotion of Liberty-minded candidates. Is there anything like this already? If not, let's start it!

[nullvalu]

Wow.. ok, not sure if maybe I need to rephrase myself here. Maybe I'm the one who's wrong in my perceptions, but I'm pretty sure some of you still aren't getting the point!

From here on out, this movement is NOT a challenge to win the Presidency. It never really was! We are a movement to that will challenge the hearts & minds of our peers. We must educate others on the importance of the Constitution, and the constant straying from it.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Paul can only run in 2012 if Obama wins this year, right?

Hmmm... Never thought about that. Yes, you're right. At least, not as a Republican.

[nate895]

Paul can only run in 2012 if Obama wins this year, right?

No, you can challenge a President in your own party. Due to McCain's liberalness, I expect it in 2012.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Wow.. ok, not sure if maybe I need to rephrase myself here. Maybe I'm the one who's wrong in my perceptions, but I'm pretty sure some of you still aren't getting the point!

From here on out, this movement is NOT a challenge to win the Presidency. It never really was! We are a movement to that will challenge the hearts & minds of our peers. We must get educate others on the importance of the Constitution, and the constant straying from it.

That's great, I'm with you, but the fastest way to do that, is to win the presidency.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

No, you can challenge a President in your own party. Due to McCain's liberalness, I expect it in 2012.

Yeah, we seen what good challenging the Republican party does :)

[nate895]

Right... I think we need something like a party that is not really a party. Something anyone can be a part of without feeling like they are leaving their party to offer support to another. Am I making sense? Some kind of real membership, a real PAC, but crossing all party lines with only one focus, the promotion of Liberty-minded candidates. Is there anything like this already? If not, let's start it!

There isn't one.

[nate895]

Yeah, we seen what good challenging the Republican party does :)

Well, it worked for Ronald Reagan.

[nullvalu]

That's great, I'm with you, but the fastest way to do that, is to win the presidency.

UGH! Wake Up! It ain't gonna happen! It won't until more people are awoken! We are a small, small group in terms of population.

Let me break it down for everyone.

Ron Paul got 1.2 million votes in the primary right? But let's just be optimistic as say we have 2 million people on our side. Now, as Ron Paul says, it takes only about 5-10% of a population to get a revolution rolling.

Ok, the US population is about 300 million. Right now we're sitting at a hefty 0.667% of the population with us!! We have another 15-30 MILLION people to WAKE UP before we can even begin to achieve our goals.

SO, I ask, should our primary goal be a presidential election in 4 years?

[nate895]

UGH! Wake Up! It ain't gonna happen! It won't until more people are awoken! We are a small, small group in terms of population.

Let me break it down for everyone.

Ron Paul got 1.2 million votes in the primary right? But let's just be optimistic as say we have 2 million people on our side. Now, as Ron Paul says, it takes only about 5-10% of a population to get a revolution rolling.

Ok, the US population is about 300 million. Right now we're sitting at a hefty .07% of the population with us!! We have another 15-30 MILLION people to WAKE UP before we can even begin to achieve our goals.

The best way to do that is through a Presidential campaign. No one listens to a person going door-to-door preaching their political gospel unless they have a candidate they're supporting.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

No, YOU wake up...



Ron Paul got 1.2 million votes in the primary right?
Of registered REPUBLICANS!!


SO, I ask, should our primary goal be a presidential election in 4 years?
Yep.

[nullvalu]

The best way to do that is through a Presidential campaign. No one listens to a person going door-to-door preaching their political gospel unless they have a candidate they're supporting.

You're wrong.

Why have a candidate you're supporting, when YOU can be the candidate??

Are you a Precinct Committeeman? Even with such a simple role, you should see the looks people give you when you say that. They may not know what it is, but damn it sounds important and They Will Listen To You. You cannot let someone else be the leader, we don't have the luxury of time. You must be a leader.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

You're wrong.

Why have a candidate you're supporting, when YOU can be the candidate??

Are you a Precinct Committeeman? Even with such a simple role, you should see the looks people give you when you say that. They may not know what it is, but damn it sounds important and They Will Listen To You. You cannot let someone else be the leader, we don't have the luxury of time. You must be a leader.

Ahh... yep... Become a Precinct Leader, and then rally people behind your choice for President.

[rockandrollsouls]

You're wrong.

Why have a candidate you're supporting, when YOU can be the candidate??

Are you a Precinct Committeeman? Even with such a simple role, you should see the looks people give you when you say that. They may not know what it is, but damn it sounds important and They Will Listen To You. You cannot let someone else be the leader, we don't have the luxury of time. You must be a leader.

Don't bother arguing with them. They want a tax n spend liberal to represent them. They just want to chant their name and not actually do anything. We can get work done without them before the next election, though, and we will.

[nate895]

You're wrong.

Why have a candidate you're supporting, when YOU can be the candidate??

Are you a Precinct Committeeman? Even with such a simple role, you should see the looks people give you when you say that. They may not know what it is, but damn it sounds important and They Will Listen To You. You cannot let someone else be the leader, we don't have the luxury of time. You must be a leader.

No, but my neighbor tried. He failed miserably. A presidential candidacy gets attention and leadership that no other campaign gets. The only thing that can get as much people on board is an aggressive PAC or Party that has enough money to broadcast ads everywhere.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Don't bother arguing with them. They want a tax n spend liberal to represent them. They just want to chant their name and not actually do anything.

Dude, you need to wash your mouth out.

[rockandrollsouls]

Dude, you need to wash your mouth out.

You guys talk like you want one man to carry the burden on his shoulders. Now, I don't recall if you were one of those touting palin/ventura....I thought it was but I don't remember but people here want to put the movement on haitus until 2012 and talk about jesse like he's the second coming of christ.

Give me a break.

[nate895]

You guys talk like you want one man to carry the burden on his shoulders. Now, I don't recall if you were one of those touting palin/ventura....I thought it was but I don't remember but people here want to put the movement on haitus until 2012 and talk about jesse like he's the second coming of christ.

Give me a break.

I don't like Ventura enough to support a Presidential campaign, but I do think that the best way to garner an electorally significant movement is through the use of the Presidential campaign. The only other ways aren't gathering steam. The only other ways are to form a PAC and give it the financial support of a Presidential campaign, or to form a third party and give it enough funds to compete with the big boys.

[rockandrollsouls]

I don't like Ventura enough to support a Presidential campaign, but I do think that the best way to garner an electorally significant movement is through the use of the Presidential campaign. The only other ways aren't gathering steam. The only other ways are to form a PAC and give it the financial support of a Presidential campaign, or to form a third party and give it enough funds to compete with the big boys.

I mean I don't mean it offensively and put aside my arguments and distaste for Ventura but there is so much to do and so much you can do without a presidential campaign....there's an entire generation to reeducate.

[nullvalu]

I don't like Ventura enough to support a Presidential campaign, but I do think that the best way to garner an electorally significant movement is through the use of the Presidential campaign. The only other ways aren't gathering steam. The only other ways are to form a PAC and give it the financial support of a Presidential campaign, or to form a third party and give it enough funds to compete with the big boys.

I'm not going to disagree that Presidential Campaigns aren't beneficial.. I mean, look at how it has brought all of us together..

What I'm saying is, we all need to do our part LOCALLY to make it successful..

And it can't wait until 2011 or 2012. It needs to start now.

It needs to be about IDEAS. NOT POLITICIANS. That way, by 2012, if we have a someone we can unite behind, the ideas have already sunk in to those who are in our precincts - and we will be far more successful in promoting a candidate.

[nate895]

I mean I don't mean it offensively and put aside my arguments and distaste for Ventura but there is so much to do and so much you can do without a presidential campaign....there's an entire generation to reeducate.

I know, and the best way to do that is use a Presidential campaign. Ron Paul managed to educate hundreds of thousands without much media attention (myself included) through the use of the campaign. If we gave another candidate more money than we gave Paul, and sooner, he'll get more media attention, broadcast more and better ads, and when he starts winning caucuses and primaries, get bandwagon people onto liberty's bandwagon.

[nate895]

I'm not going to disagree that Presidential Campaigns aren't beneficial.. I mean, look at how it has brought all of us together..

What I'm saying is, we all need to do our part LOCALLY to make it successful..

And it can't wait until 2011 or 2012. It needs to start now.

It needs to be about IDEAS. NOT POLITICIANS. That way, by 2012, if we have a someone we can unite behind, the ideas have already sunk in to those who are in our precincts - and we will be far more successful in promoting a candidate.

The campaign should start up as soon as the FEC lets them file for candidacy (which is December of this year, or January of the next). There is another alternative, and that is to form a PAC or Party and promote the ideas in TV advertisements, still the most effective advertising medium in the world, pamphlets, and other modes of communication.

[UtahApocalypse]

Imagine if we had a candidate file A.S.A.P. and a Money bomb the next day. That would throw everyone off.

[rockandrollsouls]

Imagine if we had a candidate file A.S.A.P. and a Money bomb the next day. That would throw everyone off.

Imagine if we had some popular officials in office when 2012 rolls around to vouch for a freedom candidate. Imagine if we had a more educated youth.

Don't put it on haitus. It's a gradual process. You can't hurt by educating.

[nullvalu]

The campaign should start up as soon as the FEC lets them file for candidacy

What campaign are you talking about?

Didn't you read what I wrote? We need to educate people first. People inherently distrust politicians, right? So there's a huge percentage of the population that we will never win over with a political campaign.

What I am hoping for the C4L, is there will be a way of organizing, at a precinct level for disseminating information.

[nate895]

Imagine if we had some popular officials in office when 2012 rolls around to vouch for a freedom candidate. Imagine if we had a more educated youth.

Don't put it on haitus. It's a gradual process. You can't hurt by educating.

We never suggested that. We suggested that the next campaign start up immediately. Yes, we should support other candidacies and educate the populous (don't say reeducate, it has negative connotations), but a Presidential campaign gives us a rallying point in the absence of a strong third party or other organization. It would be great if we can get more seats in 2010 in Congress, as well as governors and state legislatures, but the Presidential campaign is the only place where we can grow our ideas beyond the current constituency.

[AJ Antimony]

I'd just like to remind people the OP suggested nothing about placing all responsibility on Paul's or Ventura's shoulders. It was just recognizing how exciting the election might be from a libertarian POV.

[nate895]

What campaign are you talking about?

Didn't you read what I wrote? We need to educate people first. People inherently distrust politicians, right? So there's a huge percentage of the population that we will never win over with a political campaign.

What I am hoping for the C4L, is there will be a way of organizing, at a precinct level for disseminating information.

Those people don't vote.

Don't make us into door knockers for an ideology. We will be put on the level of the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, just pests that come around a few times a year that try to convert you.

The only thing that can give us legitimacy is a campaign or a party.

[rockandrollsouls]

We never suggested that. We suggested that the next campaign start up immediately. Yes, we should support other candidacies and educate the populous (don't say reeducate, it has negative connotations), but a Presidential campaign gives us a rallying point in the absence of a strong third party or other organization. It would be great if we can get more seats in 2010 in Congress, as well as governors and state legislatures, but the Presidential campaign is the only place where we can grow our ideas beyond the current constituency.

One, don't tell me how to phrase things. An entire generation needs to be REEDUCATED because a corrupt public school system taught them the WRONG stuff. There are people who think we are a democracy, for christ's sake.

Yea, a presidential campaign does give a rallying point, but why in the world would you stop trying to make process before a campaign.

[Peace&Freedom]

Ron Paul has impressive assets to support one more shot at the White House. Post campaign 2008, Paul goes into the 2012 cycle with a 200,000+ email and mailing list (Viguerie built the conservative movement in the mid '60's starting with a mere13,000 donor list from the Goldwater campaign). He has his own major PAC with the Campaign for Liberty, his own massive grassroots movement, and his own ad hoc media support systems (the net, and DVD distribution). He has a network of commentators who now know him, some of whom endorsed him, to connect with faster should he try to run again.

The earlier he announces, the faster the meet up groups (or a better successor system) can crank up again. Supporters can start from DAY ONE next time working precincts, working directly on voter groups (seniors, single issue group leaders, etc) thus correcting a core mistake of this past cycle. Some of the interim projects (Break the Matrix, Save the GOP, etc) may bear fruit in appointing or electing a network of Revolution people throughout the country in key county or statewide political or media positions.

The faster Paul re-ups the campaign, the earlier we can restart the massive money bombs that will give him juggernaut status early in the primary cycle, say by the early spring of 2011. Somebody should also talk any new Paul campaign into paying to sponsor 2 Paul-friendly major scientific polls per month, to prevent the MSM from shutting Paul out through the 'silent blackout' of not even mentioning his name in most polls, as they did throughout 2007.

The future looks real bright, gotta wear shades!

[nate895]

One, don't tell me how to phrase things. An entire generation needs to be REEDUCATED because a corrupt public school system taught them the WRONG stuff. There are people who think we are a democracy, for christ's sake.

Yea, a presidential campaign does give a rallying point, but why in the world would you stop trying to make process before a campaign.

Well, you have already failed. You can't going around telling people they need to be reeducated. If you showed up at my door and said something like that, I'd say to get the f' off my property, you (insert ultra-statist party here) pig. I said that the campaign shouldn't take much of a break before starting back up, under whomever's leadership (preferably Ron's).

[rockandrollsouls]

Well, you have already failed. You can't going around telling people they need to be reeducated. If you showed up at my door and said something like that, I'd say to get the f' off my property, you (insert ultra-statist party here) pig. I said that the campaign shouldn't take much of a break before starting back up, under whomever's leadership (preferably Ron's).

You are so close minded it's mind blowing. People need to be reeducated on the Constitution. You can do so without being rude as you propose. "Did you know that the dollar has decreased in value by 95 percent since 1913. Do you know why?" Etc. etc. it's all marketing but it seems you take everything literally and try to use it against me nonsensically to prove your point.

If people don't need to be reeducated, explain to me why kids come out of public schools thinking FDR was god's gift to man? Why they think we are a democracy? Why they think these treaties such as NAFTA or being involved in the UN is a good thing?

[nate895]

You are so close minded it's mind blowing. People need to be reeducated on the Constitution. You can do so without being rude as you propose. "Did you know that the dollar has decreased in value by 95 percent since 1913. Do you know why?" Etc. etc. it's all marketing but it seems you take everything literally and try to use it against me nonsensically to prove your point.

If people don't need to be reeducated, explain to me why kids come out of public schools thinking FDR was god's gift to man? Why they think we are a democracy? Why they think these treaties such as NAFTA or being involved in the UN is a good thing?

"Did you know?" Doesn't work. Telling your neighbor you support a liberty candidate because he can fix the economy by doing blah blah blah... works. Did you know is a put off and makes it sound like you are saying "hahaha, I know something you don't." It didn't make me friends when I was young, and it won't make you an ally.

I didn't say they didn't need to be reeducated, I said to use the word educate because reeducate has negative connotations.

[rockandrollsouls]

"Did you know?" Doesn't work. Telling your neighbor you support a liberty candidate because he can fix the economy by doing blah blah blah... works. Did you know is a put off and makes it sound like you are saying "hahaha, I know something you don't." It didn't make me friends when I was young, and it won't make you an ally.

I didn't say they didn't need to be reeducated, I said to use the word educate because reeducate has negative connotations.

Does the word "Dense" sound negative to you?