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mrchubbs
09-02-2008, 09:26 PM
Here is Adam Kokesh's speech today from the rally:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmsJe1S0z8w

Enjoy

V4Vendetta
09-02-2008, 09:29 PM
It was a great Speech.
A man after my own heart... nah just kidding, i like the ladies too much. But damn, he did a great job. 2nd greatest speech I have ever heard

thehighwaymanq
09-02-2008, 09:30 PM
Great speech- Powerful!

klamath
09-02-2008, 10:11 PM
Before I get behind this guy I would like to know his answer to why he was demoted for trying to steal an Iraqi pistol out of Iraq. Without a good explaination I wonder why he was trying to take something that was sieized by force of the US miltary for his own personal gain? Taking contraband out of the country is something that is highly illegal for military personal to do as it encourages criminal minded soldiers to seize property of foreign civilians.
I dont want to be following a guy that might be just POd at the marines for demoting him and out of anger wants to start a violent revolution in this country.

jonathans
09-02-2008, 10:19 PM
I have been told by several vets that souveniers are common. wrong?

jonathans
09-02-2008, 10:20 PM
anybody else got a japanese rifle??

V4Vendetta
09-02-2008, 10:28 PM
Before I get behind this guy I would like to know his answer to why he was demoted for trying to steal an Iraqi pistol out of Iraq. Without a good explaination I wonder why he was trying to take something that was sieized by force of the US miltary for his own personal gain? Taking contraband out of the country is something that is highly illegal for military personal to do as it encourages criminal minded soldiers to seize property of foreign civilians.
I dont want to be following a guy that might be just POd at the marines for demoting him and out of anger wants to start a violent revolution in this country.

ummm your kidding right? Please tell me you aren't that naive.

klamath
09-02-2008, 10:28 PM
I have been told by several vets that souveniers are common. wrong?
In the old days the spoils of war was quite common. Now it is highly illegal for the reason I stated.
And if you think that the war is horribly wrong and unjust to the Iraqi people why are you taking a weapon that was seized by that war? Is wrong for the government to fight the war yet OK for the veterans to loot the country?

klamath
09-02-2008, 10:31 PM
ummm your kidding right? Please tell me you aren't that naive.
Care to answer the Question I asked? I said I would like to know his answer as I am not condeming him yet.

jonathans
09-02-2008, 10:32 PM
I see and Iraqi army pistol as different from "private" property. jmo

klamath
09-02-2008, 10:41 PM
I see and Iraqi army pistol as different from "private" property. jmo
So the next GI or Marine may think it is ok to take that melon knife or pistol from the dirty iraqi's civilian. It is flat out ilegal and all military personal are briefed over and over and over about not taking Iraqi property.
So where did he get this pistol. They aren't just laying around unless the original holder was disposed of?

jonathans
09-02-2008, 10:47 PM
who said civilian? If someone was firing a pistol at me and now they are dead, I see nothing "morally" wrong with taking that pistol home. Against the rules, and if caught you pay the price.
The way I see it.

But, I don't know what happened either. If you find out, let us know.

klamath
09-02-2008, 10:55 PM
who said civilian? If someone was firing a pistol at me and now they are dead, I see nothing "morally" wrong with taking that pistol home. Against the rules, and if caught you pay the price.
The way I see it.

But, I don't know what happened either. If you find out, let us know.

Sorry but for me if the war is wrong it is wrong to profit from it, especially if you want to come back home and make a career of being anti war. Any time anyone hints at bringing war to this country my ears go back. War is insanity and should never be fought until every last other option has been exhausted. To even be mentioning the blood of Americans at this point is insane.

Kilrain
09-03-2008, 12:15 AM
Wanna bet there are a few of these to be found in Amerícan homes?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/DWM_4_inch_Navy_Luger_859.jpg/300px-DWM_4_inch_Navy_Luger_859.jpg

Not that big a deal if you ask me. Military souvenirs have been brought home from every war throughout history.

fj45lvr
09-03-2008, 12:26 AM
who cares about a pistol?? For all we know he bought it from a kid or shop.

Just another STUPID regulation (and we're swimming in thousands of them).

I'm laughing about the notion that anyone is worried about GI's trying to "profit" from being over there.....

What the hell are they doing there in the first place (it's ALL ABOUT PROFIT).

New York For Paul
09-03-2008, 06:14 AM
Considering that over ten billion dollars is missing in Iraq from the American Treasury
looks like many people got away with taking money.

Four Soldiers Accused of taking millions of dollars.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/31/9330/


Art Theft and Money Theft

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:vjf4PZkr3pQJ:www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/04/23/sprj.nilaw.antiquities/index.html+soldiers+charged+for+stealing+money+in+ iraq&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=18&gl=us

List of Soldier Violations
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:sHwQ41RnIYIJ:scandaltimes.com/archive_military.html+%22four+soldiers%22+charged+ for+stealing+money+in+iraq&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

james1844
09-03-2008, 07:37 AM
Before I get behind this guy I would like to know his answer to why he was demoted for trying to steal an Iraqi pistol out of Iraq. Without a good explaination I wonder why he was trying to take something that was sieized by force of the US miltary for his own personal gain? Taking contraband out of the country is something that is highly illegal for military personal to do as it encourages criminal minded soldiers to seize property of foreign civilians.
I dont want to be following a guy that might be just POd at the marines for demoting him and out of anger wants to start a violent revolution in this country.

I heard the pistol was his personal property and that he had purchased it from an Iraqi.

demolama
09-03-2008, 07:51 AM
The government makes taking of foreign weapons home illegal because they cant register them.... that's the only reason

klamath
09-03-2008, 09:52 AM
I heard the pistol was his personal property and that he had purchased it from an Iraqi.
If you can show proof of this I would definately feel better for then it would be free trade that got caught in conflict with AR's. If it is otherwise it is pure hyprocrasy to steal property from a nation you susposedly feel was wrongly invaded.

klamath
09-03-2008, 09:59 AM
Considering that over ten billion dollars is missing in Iraq from the American Treasury
looks like many people got away with taking money.

Four Soldiers Accused of taking millions of dollars.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/31/9330/


Art Theft and Money Theft

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:vjf4PZkr3pQJ:www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/04/23/sprj.nilaw.antiquities/index.html+soldiers+charged+for+stealing+money+in+ iraq&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=18&gl=us

List of Soldier Violations
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:sHwQ41

RnIYIJ:scandaltimes.com/archive_military.html+%22four+soldiers%22
+charged+for+stealing+money+in+iraq&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

Does this make it right? Some people seem to think it would be ok to rape and pillage as long as you come back home and join an anti war movement.

fj45lvr
09-03-2008, 12:14 PM
Does this make it right? Some people seem to think it would be ok to rape and pillage as long as you come back home and join an anti war movement.


Man....dude you sure like to smear people....Could you at least contain it until you actually KNOW the facts??

I don't think that is too much to ask.

You're worried because the guy violated the Army regulations OR

because he may have acquired a pistol in a way that you find detestable?

let's see he could have come to possess the pistol by:

finding it
stealing it
buying it
being given it by an Iraqi
being given it by a contractor
being given it by a G.I.
being given it by another soldier


So the detestable part of wanting to bring back a pistol is???

Did you know that our FEDERAL government has a "rule" that a citizen can't keep anything older than 50 years that they might find out on National Lands??? (do you think you can pick up a penny if it was minted in 1957??)

We are swimming in absurdity all around us.

klamath
09-03-2008, 02:44 PM
Man....dude you sure like to smear people....Could you at least contain it until you actually KNOW the facts??

I don't think that is too much to ask.

You're worried because the guy violated the Army regulations OR

because he may have acquired a pistol in a way that you find detestable?

let's see he could have come to possess the pistol by:

finding it
stealing it
buying it
being given it by an Iraqi
being given it by a contractor
being given it by a G.I.
being given it by another soldier


So the detestable part of wanting to bring back a pistol is???

Did you know that our FEDERAL government has a "rule" that a citizen can't keep anything older than 50 years that they might find out on National Lands??? (do you think you can pick up a penny if it was minted in 1957??)

We are swimming in absurdity all around us.

I know a whole lot more about government regulations on federal lands than you. My family has been fighting the feds for 4o years. The pistol wasn't picked up on US lands unless you buy the argument iraqi soil is now American soil.

I asked the question about the contraband because it is on his wikipedia page about the guy and it flies in the face of the the crusade he is on.
When I hear a man stand before a public gathering and try and sell war you are damned right I am going to say something.
Someone else was beating the drums for war and his name was GW Bush. Never again will I trust on face value that there is a case for war because some leader said so all in the name of FREEDOM!.
When I heard that a kid asked his parents while listening to the speach "does that mean there is going to be a civil war" I was sick. Have you been to war? Do you know what hell it would be like in this country? Do you know how many innocent people would die for a 99.99% chance the end result would be less freedom than you have now?

Grimnir Wotansvolk
09-03-2008, 04:05 PM
Perhaps we're all reading too much into Kokesh's "tree" metaphor. He may have meant "blood" in terms of "blood, sweat, and tears" poured out by everyone earnestly involved in the liberty movement, as that's exactly what it's going to take.

At least, that's what I'd hope he meant. If not, that's a little unsettling.

GoSlash27
09-03-2008, 05:47 PM
Perhaps we're all reading too much into Kokesh's "tree" metaphor. He may have meant "blood" in terms of "blood, sweat, and tears" poured out by everyone earnestly involved in the liberty movement, as that's exactly what it's going to take.

At least, that's what I'd hope he meant. If not, that's a little unsettling.
He meant *exactly* what he said; "Blood"= blood, just as it did in the quote he referenced.
Yes it's unsettling. Yes, I will be counted by his side.

I am, like him, a war veteran from a family of war veterans. I was there and stood (although acutely embarassed at doing so) because I understood and approved of his point. I've been there faced off against the "foreign" enemies at the behest of the "domestic" ones. And I accepted how quickly this could devolve.

We strive to keep this revolution peaceful and democratic. A war veteran (who knows first-hand how ugly things can get) does not counsel violence lightly. But you people must come to accept the fact that the powers-that-be now regard *you* as dangerous to their designs.
You are all regarded as "enemies of the State" even if it's not publicly proclaimed by those who would do your nation irreparable harm. This is not a game. This is literally (just as he said) a matter of life and death.

You are all soldiers on the front lines of freedom whether you like it or not. If you can't handle the fact that you may be called upon to make the ultimate sacrafice, it's past time to leave and accept the tyranny that approaches. Even if you never raise a finger in defense against the coming police state, you may still perish.
If you are to be a part of this reclamation, you MUST steel yourself and make the commitment to to swear your "life, fortune, and sacred honor" for the Constitution and the cause of freedom.
If you can't do that, it's time to sit down, be quiet, and hope they overlook you.

I'm sorry the situation is what it is. I'd much rather die of old age in a bed. But there it is.

fj45lvr
09-03-2008, 06:20 PM
I asked the question about the contraband because it is on his wikipedia page about the guy and it flies in the face of the the crusade he is on.
When I hear a man stand before a public gathering and try and sell war you are damned right I am going to say something.


Dude you didn't merely bring up the question about the issue, you were insinuating he is LESS THAN HONORABLE. (I don't think you CAN or SHOULD do that if you don't know FACTUALLY the situation as it really was). Now if your issue is that he tried to violate the ARMY regulations by bringing the item home that is your opinion but like the "rule" I mentioned about Federal Lands it is ABSURD and BS and I am glad people don't follow the absurd.




Never again will I trust on face value that there is a case for war because some leader said so all in the name of FREEDOM!.
When I heard that a kid asked his parents while listening to the speach "does that mean there is going to be a civil war" I was sick. Have you been to war? Do you know what hell it would be like in this country? Do you know how many innocent people would die for a 99.99% chance the end result would be less freedom than you have now?

Well I hate to break it to you that BLOOD is going to be unavoidable because our DOMESTIC ENEMIES control about every aspect of power within the infrastructure....the idea that eventually the POPULACE is going to "catch on" is ludicrous. That is Paul's only weak spot, NOT DRAWING THE LINE and like our revolutionary forefathers telling the tyrants that we aren't doing it anymore.....right now he submits BILLS to Congress (that are these things and they GO NOWHERE)....the truth is there is a far greater majority of the NATION's populace that desires SOCIALISM/Welfarism. If the "revolution" doesn't want to overthrow the whole Federal Gov. they at least should DEMOGRAPHICALLY take over some of the SOVEREIGN STATES!!!!

klamath
09-03-2008, 07:08 PM
Dude you didn't merely bring up the question about the issue, you were insinuating he is LESS THAN HONORABLE. (I don't think you CAN or SHOULD do that if you don't know FACTUALLY the situation as it really was). Now if your issue is that he tried to violate the ARMY regulations by bringing the item home that is your opinion but like the "rule" I mentioned about Federal Lands it is ABSURD and BS and I am glad people don't follow the absurd.





Well I hate to break it to you that BLOOD is going to be unavoidable because our DOMESTIC ENEMIES control about every aspect of power within the infrastructure....the idea that eventually the POPULACE is going to "catch on" is ludicrous. That is Paul's only weak spot, NOT DRAWING THE LINE and like our revolutionary forefathers telling the tyrants that we aren't doing it anymore.....right now he submits BILLS to Congress (that are these things and they GO NOWHERE)....the truth is there is a far greater majority of the NATION's populace that desires SOCIALISM/Welfarism. If the "revolution" doesn't want to overthrow the whole Federal Gov. they at least should DEMOGRAPHICALLY take over some of the SOVEREIGN STATES!!!!


I am a veteran of three wars and come from a family of veterans. So let me know how it feels to blow the guts out of your neighbors and watch their kids get blown to hell with the collateral damage from your rounds. Let me know how it feels when you blow the brains out of your best friend and watch his eyes dialate as the sight got out of them all because he didn't agree with your idea of freedom. Or maybe it is your sons, daughters, brothers sisters mother father or wife you stick a knife in because your freedom didn't match theirs.
You better get used to it because that is exactly the way it will end up. Your arm is going to get awfully tired sliting the stomachs of the majority of American that want, "SOCIALISM/Welfarism"to quote you
Sounds glorious doesn't it man?

fj45lvr
09-03-2008, 07:22 PM
Or maybe it is your sons, daughters, brothers sisters mother father or wife you stick a knife in because your freedom didn't match theirs.

What "freedom"??? The killing will start because the TYRANNTS are going to do what they always do: come marching in with guns to FORCE people to go to prison for thwarting their dictates.....so the people that will get blown away are those holding the guns (hardly daughters, sisters and mothers...just like it went down in WACO or Ruby Ridge.

To be honest I don't really care what happens to a majority of the socialists that are active in pushing their TOTALITARIAN state on me (to have to kiss their ring anytime I want to do anything)....I hope they flee to cananda or Mexico (so they can go about being the "annointed ones" there building their utopia. If it means I will be able to KEEP 100% of what I earn and not have the gov. on my back for about anything and everything I do then it will be WORTH even giving my life for that opportunity

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
09-03-2008, 07:25 PM
So the next GI or Marine may think it is ok to take that melon knife or pistol from the dirty iraqi's civilian. It is flat out ilegal and all military personal are briefed over and over and over about not taking Iraqi property.
So where did he get this pistol. They aren't just laying around unless the original holder was disposed of?

I think you have legit questions.

Although, even if he has been wrong in the past, it may not invalidate his current position.

klamath
09-03-2008, 07:40 PM
What "freedom"??? The killing will start because the TYRANNTS are going to do what they always do: come marching in with guns to FORCE people to go to prison for thwarting their dictates.....so the people that will get blown away are those holding the guns (hardly daughters, sisters and mothers...just like it went down in WACO or Ruby Ridge.

To be honest I don't really care what happens to a majority of the socialists that are active in pushing their TOTALITARIAN state on me (to have to kiss their ring anytime I want to do anything)....I hope they flee to cananda or Mexico (so they can go about being the "annointed ones" there building their utopia. If it means I will be able to KEEP 100% of what I earn and not have the gov. on my back for about anything and everything I do then it will be WORTH even giving my life for that opportunity

So you think.

JohnMeridith
09-03-2008, 07:50 PM
not knowing the story, but war trophies are normal. I have heard that firearms have/can be brought back, but they must be rendered useless(cemented barrel/chopped receiver)

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/wars/a/wartrophies.htm

fj45lvr
09-03-2008, 07:55 PM
So you think.


Ideally the economy implodes and takes with it the gov. but that's probably not gonna happen (last time the economy tumbled we were saddled with the socialism that has consumed the nation today).

I get a chuckle out of your poo-pooing what the founders of the country laid out and stated OVER and OVER.... When they said that the RIGHT to bear arms was to protect LIBERTY against the gov. what in the HELL do you think that means??? I guess you must find those guys abhorant that they were willing to actually FIGHT and KILL?? maybe you are of the opinion that "its not that bad" (which sounds reminiscent of what the Jews were probably telling themselves when when they first had to wear the Star of David).

rajibo
09-03-2008, 08:04 PM
In the old days the spoils of war was quite common. Now it is highly illegal for the reason I stated.
And if you think that the war is horribly wrong and unjust to the Iraqi people why are you taking a weapon that was seized by that war? Is wrong for the government to fight the war yet OK for the veterans to loot the country?

I"ve never been to war and hope to never have to go to war, but if I were on the frontlines of a war, I'm certain I'd do things that I'd not be proud of.

If I ever kill a man who has never personally harmed me, taking a gun would be the least of my worries.

klamath
09-03-2008, 08:08 PM
Ideally the economy implodes and takes with it the gov. but that's probably not gonna happen (last time the economy tumbled we were saddled with the socialism that has consumed the nation today).

I get a chuckle out of your poo-pooing what the founders of the country laid out and stated OVER and OVER.... When they said that the RIGHT to bear arms was to protect LIBERTY against the gov. what in the HELL do you think that means??? I guess you must find those guys abhorant that they were willing to actually FIGHT and KILL?? maybe you are of the opinion that "its not that bad" (which sounds reminiscent of what the Jews were probably telling themselves when when they first had to wear the Star of David).\

When the day comes to fight everone will know it. Now is not tht day. You sir are a loose canon.

fj45lvr
09-03-2008, 08:22 PM
\

When the day comes to fight everone will know it. Now is not tht day. You sir are a loose canon.

I'm just pissed off and sick of the BS...can't even "plow" my own property without being "granted" a PERMIT .....paying taxes so they can BAILOUT bad loans and give it to DESPOTIC tyrannts....the same ol same ol..... I would much rather "get it on now" than wait longer (like Alexander Hamilton said so well:


They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave

klamath
09-03-2008, 08:38 PM
Honestly I know you pain. I grew up in a family where we were fighting the entire federal system just to keep our land. Had we lost we all would have been destitute and homeless. This has a major effect on a young boy. It is a very lonely feeling and a very angering to know that the money we scraped together for taxes was paying the very people that were after us. In the end we beat the government within the legal system. There are far too many peaceful avenues still open to us to fight the the creeping control before we ever talk of violence.

fj45lvr
09-04-2008, 12:05 AM
There are far too many peaceful avenues still open to us to fight the the creeping control before we ever talk of violence.

I think you have to admit that there are literally thousands upon thousands who have NOT come out "on top" when coming up against the Fed gov. that has totally either totally overstepped their place as layed out OR ignored their place...especially with allowing the Federal Reserve to come into existance, unconstitutional agency administrative rules (not even constitutional areas of the fed. gov. control but that of the people or states)...not to mention the rulings of the supreme court itself that has essentially ENDED Liberty in this country...a key one to prove that is:

http://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1949/1942/1942_59/


The point is that do you really expect that PRECEDENT is going to be overturned?? When LIBERTY is already LOST and gone??

I choose to believe (and it is reinforced by History) John Adams who stated: "Liberty once lost. . . is lost forever."

So we have but a mere fraction left....the DELUDED sorcerers would tell us that a prisoner has nearly 95% access of all the area in the prison in which he is confined!!!! What a blessing we have to be prisoners and slaves today!!! while the "prisonkeepers" hold the keys and lock and open the doors at their whim.

muh_roads
09-04-2008, 12:08 AM
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson

klamath
09-04-2008, 08:48 PM
:(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kki1kpFCBh0&feature=related

Highland
09-04-2008, 08:53 PM
I have been told by several vets that souveniers are common. wrong?

Actually, my great uncle was a prisoner of war in North Korea in a water torture prison. He stole the North Koreans gun, killed him with it and proceeded to make his way to freedom. He then taped the gun to his back and got onto the plane home. His grandson has that gun to this day....so yes, munitions that saved their lives do mean a lot. Security when you have PTS