PDA

View Full Version : Campaign for Liberty will be a Constitutional Republic




Mahkato
09-01-2008, 03:20 PM
I'm at the Campaign for Liberty Leadership Summit today.

Campaign for Liberty, as I understand it, will be organized neither as a "top down" oligarchy nor "bottom up" democracy -- it will essentially be a constitutional republic modeled after the U.S. Constitution. Remember that not all states were admitted to the Union at the same time. In the same way, there will not instantly be a chapter of the Campaign for Liberty in every state. Rather, states will have to prove themselves, beginning at the precinct level.

People who organize themselves at the precinct level by becoming producing precinct leaders can move up a level (by election of their precincts) to county coordinators. Those who prove themselves qualified at the county level may move up to the district coordinator level (535 of these nationwide). Competent district coordinators can be elected as state coordinators. State coordinators (and their staff?) will serve as the link to the national CFL organization. Some Ron Paul supporters fear organizations of any sort because any organization can suffer from bad leadership, but by operating as a constitutional republic, we reduce the chance of other ORGANIZATIONS taking over and corrupting the CFL -- and believe me, they will try when they discover what we are building. The U.S. is "a republic if you can keep it," and I think the type of people who support CFL's mission WILL be able to keep it. Eternal vigilance.

Some are concerned about dues. This does not mean everybody who does not want to or cannot pay dues will be ignored by CFL. There are different types of members. Many will simply be on the email list. Some will be on the mailing list. Full members, however, including precinct leaders, will need to pay the $35 annual dues. This will give them access to resources and tools not available to the "free" members, and it will help the organization stay afloat ... if you look at all the successful organizations out there (NRA, AARP, etc.), the vast majority of them charge dues. As Debbie Hopper said today, we are not here to create a welfare state. If you want to be an active member of CFL, you need to pay your own way. If you can't afford the $35 but still really want to be active as a precint leader, ask someone in your precinct to cover the dues for you. Charity, not welfare. An organization such as CFL will be effective if it has the means to be effective and CAN PROVE ITSELF by its ability to RAISE OPERATING FUNDS on a continuing basis. If CFL is not worth $35 to you, then it's not worth $35 to you. It's a free market. Start your own organization or find another organization that does what you want for less than $35.

I have a strong feeling, after attending the sessions so far today, that CFL will become THE most powerful advancement for constitutionally-limited government anywhere since 1776. We will NOT all agree all the time and everywhere on matters of mission, vision, organizational structure, leadership positions, and so on. But we must not make worse enemies of our friends than we do of our actual enemies. You may not think CFL is perfect, and it will never be "perfect", but you cannot let that stop you from joining and enthusiastically participating in the greatest effort to restore government of, by, and for the people that has come around in a long, long time.

MRoCkEd
09-01-2008, 03:24 PM
Powerful stuff - thanks.

MsDoodahs
09-01-2008, 03:27 PM
I have a strong feeling, after attending the sessions so far today, that CFL will become THE most powerful advancement for constitutionally-limited government anywhere since 1776. We will NOT all agree all the time and everywhere on matters of mission, vision, organizational structure, leadership positions, and so on. But we must not make worse enemies of our friends than we do of our actual enemies. You may not think CFL is perfect, and it will never be "perfect", but you cannot let that stop you from joining and enthusiastically participating in the greatest effort to restore government of, by, and for the people that has come around in a long, long time.

:)

Jeremy
09-01-2008, 03:30 PM
yah, i heard some things about this from the live bloggers and WOW, it sounds so cool

AZ Libertarian
09-01-2008, 04:21 PM
Rather, states will have to prove themselves, beginning at the precinct level.

People who organize themselves at the precinct level by becoming producing precinct leaders can move up a level (by election of their precincts) to county coordinators. Those who prove themselves qualified at the county level may move up to the district coordinator level (535 of these nationwide). Competent district coordinators can be elected as state coordinators. State coordinators (and their staff?) will serve as the link to the national CFL organization.

Question - all this talk about Precincts and Districts - is this work to be done in the REPUBLICAN Party? Or is this just a method of breaking up the states into workable areas and not in relation to any particular 'Political Party'? This hasn't been made clear anywhere I've seen so far in monitoring the action online.

MRoCkEd
09-01-2008, 04:27 PM
Question - all this talk about Precincts and Districts - is this work to be done in the REPUBLICAN Party? Or is this just a method of breaking up the states into workable areas and not in relation to any particular 'Political Party'? This hasn't been made clear anywhere I've seen so far in monitoring the action online.
I think so. People are encouraged to attend all the local GOP meetings

RevolutionSD
09-01-2008, 05:00 PM
I'm at the Campaign for Liberty Leadership Summit today.

Campaign for Liberty, as I understand it, will be organized neither as a "top down" oligarchy nor "bottom up" democracy -- it will essentially be a constitutional republic modeled after the U.S. Constitution. Remember that not all states were admitted to the Union at the same time. In the same way, there will not instantly be a chapter of the Campaign for Liberty in every state. Rather, states will have to prove themselves, beginning at the precinct level.

People who organize themselves at the precinct level by becoming producing precinct leaders can move up a level (by election of their precincts) to county coordinators. Those who prove themselves qualified at the county level may move up to the district coordinator level (535 of these nationwide). Competent district coordinators can be elected as state coordinators. State coordinators (and their staff?) will serve as the link to the national CFL organization. Some Ron Paul supporters fear organizations of any sort because any organization can suffer from bad leadership, but by operating as a constitutional republic, we reduce the chance of other ORGANIZATIONS taking over and corrupting the CFL -- and believe me, they will try when they discover what we are building. The U.S. is "a republic if you can keep it," and I think the type of people who support CFL's mission WILL be able to keep it. Eternal vigilance.

Some are concerned about dues. This does not mean everybody who does not want to or cannot pay dues will be ignored by CFL. There are different types of members. Many will simply be on the email list. Some will be on the mailing list. Full members, however, including precinct leaders, will need to pay the $35 annual dues. This will give them access to resources and tools not available to the "free" members, and it will help the organization stay afloat ... if you look at all the successful organizations out there (NRA, AARP, etc.), the vast majority of them charge dues. As Debbie Hopper said today, we are not here to create a welfare state. If you want to be an active member of CFL, you need to pay your own way. If you can't afford the $35 but still really want to be active as a precint leader, ask someone in your precinct to cover the dues for you. Charity, not welfare. An organization such as CFL will be effective if it has the means to be effective and CAN PROVE ITSELF by its ability to RAISE OPERATING FUNDS on a continuing basis. If CFL is not worth $35 to you, then it's not worth $35 to you. It's a free market. Start your own organization or find another organization that does what you want for less than $35.

I have a strong feeling, after attending the sessions so far today, that CFL will become THE most powerful advancement for constitutionally-limited government anywhere since 1776. We will NOT all agree all the time and everywhere on matters of mission, vision, organizational structure, leadership positions, and so on. But we must not make worse enemies of our friends than we do of our actual enemies. You may not think CFL is perfect, and it will never be "perfect", but you cannot let that stop you from joining and enthusiastically participating in the greatest effort to restore government of, by, and for the people that has come around in a long, long time.

Boo. It won't work. Government is an evil institution. Might as well try to infiltrate and change the mafia or KKK. Freewill and a voluntary society are the only way to go.

0zzy
09-01-2008, 05:01 PM
Boo. It won't work. Government is an evil institution. Might as well try to infiltrate and change the mafia or KKK. Freewill and a voluntary society are the only way to go.

anarchy?

ya....

Jeremy
09-01-2008, 05:01 PM
Boo. It won't work. Government is an evil institution. Might as well try to infiltrate and change the mafia or KKK. Freewill and a voluntary society are the only way to go.

blah blah blah blah blah

DeadtoSin
09-01-2008, 05:34 PM
blah blah blah blah blah

Or a shorter summary...

Blah.

RevolutionSD
09-01-2008, 07:33 PM
anarchy?

ya....

as opposed to giving a bunch of authoritarian sociopaths a monopoly on violence? HELL yeah!

raystone
09-01-2008, 07:55 PM
thanks OP, that's the best summary of the summit I've seen. I was also at the summit and I would consider the MattCollins live blogging here as biased half truths rather than reporting.

Matt Collins
09-01-2008, 11:30 PM
I was also at the summit and I would consider the MattCollins live blogging here as biased half truths rather than reporting.You are an ignorant ass. What have I said that was a half-truth? :rolleyes:

hotbrownsauce
09-01-2008, 11:41 PM
:) thanks for the information.

scandinaviany3
09-01-2008, 11:43 PM
thanks for the information jonathan :)

Matt Collins
09-01-2008, 11:47 PM
Campaign for Liberty, as I understand it, will be organized neither as a "top down" oligarchy nor "bottom up" democracy -- it will essentially be a constitutional republic modeled after the U.S. Constitution. That wasn't exactly the impression that I got. The impression I got was that there would be no local representation to the national org until after a local constitution was ratified.

And I also got the feeling they were making some of it up as they went along. In other words they are not even close to getting all of the details worked out. But I think the overall goals are in place even though the model of the structure of the organization is not.



People who organize themselves at the precinct level by becoming producing precinct leaders can move up a level (by election of their precincts) to county coordinators.Exactly. Their biggest theme was to get involved at the local level specifically in your local GOP and precinct.



Some Ron Paul supporters fear organizations of any sort because any organization can suffer from bad leadership, but by operating as a constitutional republic, we reduce the chance of other ORGANIZATIONS taking over and corrupting the CFL -- I think that this dichotomy will be a source of friction for many RP supporters. Some want top-down org, and others want grassroots-up.





I have a strong feeling, after attending the sessions so far today, that CFL will become THE most powerful advancement for constitutionally-limited government anywhere since 1776. It absolutetly has that potential. If they can keep the infighting to a minimum, be organized, keep up good communication, and not FUBAR almost everything they touch, then yes there is a good chance the CFL will become a very powerful political force. But incompetence and gaffes like we saw in the campaign must be avoided.


We will NOT all agree all the time and everywhere on matters of mission, vision, organizational structure, leadership positions, and so on. But we must not make worse enemies of our friends than we do of our actual enemies. You may not think CFL is perfect, and it will never be "perfect", but you cannot let that stop you from joining and enthusiastically participating in the greatest effort to restore government of, by, and for the people that has come around in a long, long time.Great point. I plan on hanging around forever or until I see it as being ineffective.

Paul_Delegate
09-03-2008, 03:53 PM
Question - all this talk about Precincts and Districts - is this work to be done in the REPUBLICAN Party? Or is this just a method of breaking up the states into workable areas and not in relation to any particular 'Political Party'? This hasn't been made clear anywhere I've seen so far in monitoring the action online.


While most of the people in the Leadership Conference were Republicans and it probably has a Republican focus, I didn't hear any of the speakers say that it was exclusive to the GOP.

In fact, I spoke to some guy who was there from Georgia who intends on placing three precinct leaders in every precinct in his district. One to work republicans and two to infiltrate and take over the DEMOCRAT party!

He said "why should we set our sights on taking over one party, let's take them all!"

Well said! :)

Paul_Delegate
09-03-2008, 03:55 PM
Freewill and a voluntary society are the only way to go.

Since we do not have one of those, you have two choices:

1) Do something.

2) Bitch.

I see you have chosen the latter.

Let posterity know you were not my countryman.

Paul_Delegate
09-03-2008, 03:55 PM
You are an ignorant ass. What have I said that was a half-truth? :rolleyes:

Every single thing you have posted on Ron Paul Forums? :D

Paul_Delegate
09-03-2008, 03:59 PM
That wasn't exactly the impression that I got. The impression I got was that there would be no local representation to the national org until after a local constitution was ratified.

The impression I got was that a person like you will probably not be involved in the process. And that's fine with me!



And I also got the feeling they were making some of it up as they went along. In other words they are not even close to getting all of the details worked out. But I think the overall goals are in place even though the model of the structure of the organization is not.


Of what import is your view here?




I think that this dichotomy will be a source of friction for many RP supporters. Some want top-down org, and others want grassroots-up.

You appear to want the former. Because the entire Real Campaign School and Leadership Conference was about the latter.

If I am incorrect, then specify your beef, or keep your worthless (to me) opinion to yourself.

gls
09-03-2008, 04:03 PM
He said "why should we set our sights on taking over one party, let's take them all!"

Well said! :)

Yeah, that makes sense because if we limit ourselves to the GOP we are effectively conceding almost half the country from the get-go (due to the effects of gerrymandering).

ISTM that Ron Paul-type democrats could be very well be successful in certain areas of the country, such as the South and West.

Matt Collins
09-03-2008, 11:18 PM
Every single thing you have posted on Ron Paul Forums?


The impression I got was that a person like you will probably not be involved in the process. And that's fine with me!

So what's with the personal attacks?

Matt Collins
09-03-2008, 11:21 PM
You appear to want the former. Because the entire Real Campaign School and Leadership Conference was about the latter.Well no actually. I don't know exactly what the best answer is. We MUST have some leadership for encouragement and for admin purposes in place, and there must be some competent experts giving advice and guidance


keep your worthless (to me) opinion to yourself.If you dont want to read my opinions than don't. Feel free to ignore me. Otherwise quit trying to stifle dissent.

Paul_Delegate
09-03-2008, 11:23 PM
Well no actually. I don't know exactly what the best answer is. We MUST have some leadership for encouragement and for admin purposes in place, and there must be some competent experts giving advice and guidance

You see, Matt, you complain about personal attacks and then you personally attack.

There was A TON of leadership and encouragement this weekend, yet you DISHONESTLY pretend that there was not.

Either that or you were sleeping through training.

Like I said, I consider you a sunshine patriot - if even that.

Matt Collins
09-03-2008, 11:42 PM
You see, Matt, you complain about personal attacks and then you personally attack.Where have I initiated a personal attack on this forum?


There was A TON of leadership and encouragement this weekend, yet you DISHONESTLY pretend that there was not.I never said there wasn't. I never even implied there wasn't. The rally went off very well in my opinion with few minor exceptions.


Either that or you were sleeping through training.I wasn't in the Sunday training.


Like I said, I consider you a sunshine patriot - if even that.It's ok - I consider you a troll who has registered on here simply to attack me. So what's your real name?

jonathans
09-03-2008, 11:53 PM
In fact, I spoke to some guy who was there from Georgia who intends on placing three precinct leaders in every precinct in his district. One to work republicans and two to infiltrate and take over the DEMOCRAT party!

He said "why should we set our sights on taking over one party, let's take them all!"

Well said! :)

HELL YEAH , does this guy post here, can you find him? I want to hear more!!

Paul_Delegate
09-04-2008, 12:20 AM
Where have I initiated a personal attack on this forum?

I never said there wasn't. I never even implied there wasn't. The rally went off very well in my opinion with few minor exceptions.

I wasn't in the Sunday training.

It's ok - I consider you a troll who has registered on here simply to attack me. So what's your real name?


Yes you did. Now, you're a liar.


Originally Posted by Matt Collins
Well no actually. I don't know exactly what the best answer is. We MUST have some leadership for encouragement and for admin purposes in place, and there must be some competent experts giving advice and guidance



Would you have posted that if you thought there WAS leadership competent experts?

No you would not have.

There's your personal attack.

You have painted yourself into what one might term a "liar's corner."

MsDoodahs
09-04-2008, 12:30 AM
Since apparently you were able to attend the training, I have a quick question.

Someone here (maybe ME3?) said that Ron no longer wants us to work towards reclaiming the GOP.

Is that in fact the case?

Thanks,

MsD

Matt Collins
09-04-2008, 12:35 AM
Would you have posted that if you thought there WAS leadership competent experts?I was referring to the long-term CFL organization, not the immediate events of the past few days.




There's your personal attack.And please tell me who I attacked?


You have painted yourself into what one might term a "liar's corner."Not hardly. Making something out of nothing is what you seem to be good at.


Why are you personally attacking me?
What is your real name?
Why did you join 2 days ago and most of your posts since then attack me?

Paul_Delegate
09-04-2008, 12:38 AM
[QUOTE=Matt Collins;1649559]Well no actually. I don't know exactly what the best answer is. We MUST have some leadership for encouragement and for admin purposes in place, and there must be some competent experts giving advice and guidance[QUOTE]


This is the SECOND TIME you've said that. The second time after you said that you never said there was not leadership and competent expertise.

Why do you continue to bring this up unless your intention is to say that the CFL leadership is not competent.

Because you are a DIVIDER.

That's not an attack. It's a logical conclusion based on evidence you yourself provided!

MsDoodahs
09-04-2008, 12:39 AM
HELL YEAH , does this guy post here, can you find him? I want to hear more!!

Mod hat off.

For now.

Sally08 wants him banned.

Which reveals much about Sally08, IMO.


;)

Paul_Delegate
09-04-2008, 12:41 AM
Making something out of nothing is what you seem to be good at.



Here you go again. You attack and criticize and then complain when it happens to you.

It's dishonest of you, Matt, and extremely hypocritical.

We do not need this type of divisiveness in our movement, not amongst ourselves. Which, by the way, I do not consider you one of because all you have is venom for patriots.

Matt Collins
09-04-2008, 12:45 AM
Here you go again. You attack and criticize and then complain when it happens to you.
I have not initiated an attack on anyone here.


It's dishonest of you, Matt, and extremely hypocritical.

We do not need this type of divisiveness in our movement, not amongst ourselves. Which, by the way, I do not consider you one of because all you have is venom for patriots.
Why are you personally attacking me?
What is your real name?







.

Paul_Delegate
09-04-2008, 12:53 AM
You are an ignorant ass. What have I said that was a half-truth? :rolleyes:


Matt, shall I provide the link to the post where you said this, you hypocrite? Hint: it's in this very thread.

Matt Collins
09-04-2008, 12:56 AM
Matt, shall I provide the link to the post where you said this, you hypocrite? Hint: it's in this very thread.


I did not initiate a personal attack.


Why are you personally attacking me?
What is your real name?

Paul_Delegate
09-04-2008, 12:56 AM
Paul_Delegate
Member Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 38



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Collins
Well no actually. I don't know exactly what the best answer is. We MUST have some leadership for encouragement and for admin purposes in place, and there must be some competent experts giving advice and guidance

You see, Matt, you complain about personal attacks and then you personally attack.

There was A TON of leadership and encouragement this weekend, yet you DISHONESTLY pretend that there was not.

Either that or you were sleeping through training.


I wasn't in the Sunday training.


There was also leadership for encouragement and competent experts in the Monday training.

Paul_Delegate
09-04-2008, 12:59 AM
I did not initiate a personal attack.


Everyone of the snyde threads you initiated in the last 3 days have contained personal attacks.

Let me tell you, I would work against any snake, liar, smarmy shiny-badge seeker like you for any leadership position.

You do not engender trust and inspiration, you sap it. You engender distrust and disunity - my opinion - but can you provide any evidence to the contrary? I don't think so.

Matt Collins
09-04-2008, 01:02 AM
I would work against any snake, liar, smarmy shiny-badge seeker like you for any leadership position.

You do not engender trust and inspiration, you sap it. You engender distrust and disunity - my opinion - but can you provide any evidence to the contrary? I don't think so.


Why are you personally attacking me?
What is your real name?



.

Matt Collins
09-04-2008, 01:03 AM
you DISHONESTLY pretend that there was not.

Why are you personally attacking me?
What is your real name?



.

Paul_Delegate
09-04-2008, 01:16 AM
[SIZE=4]
Why are you personally attacking me?



Point of order. The post you responded to which I'm pasting here:

===

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Delegate
I would work against any snake, liar, smarmy shiny-badge seeker like you for any leadership position.

You do not engender trust and inspiration, you sap it. You engender distrust and disunity - my opinion - but can you provide any evidence to the contrary? I don't think so.

===

was not an attack but several statements of fact.

Paul_Delegate
09-04-2008, 01:17 AM
[QUOTE=Matt Collins;1649865][SIZE=4]
Why are you personally attacking me?
[QUOTE]

I'm not. This time I pointed out that you lied by taking posts out of context with the objective of deceiving people. Statement of fact. Not personal attack.

Paul_Delegate
09-04-2008, 01:23 AM
If you dont want to read my opinions than don't. Feel free to ignore me. Otherwise quit trying to stifle dissent.


What an interesting and snake-like comment!

You can also not read my opinions, but you do, to which you respond - at length.

I have NEVER attempted to stifle dissent. I identify and expose moles.

Proof: you have never stated any specific dissent. You merely post divisive invectives and implications for the purposes of causing division and preventing consensus-building among other members.

Sure sign of a mole!

nayjevin
09-04-2008, 05:27 AM
Good post to isolate shills. Nice ignore list filter, thanks.

High content posts that inspire true Ron Paul supporters will always be scary to those who would bring us down.

Off-topic posters will always expose themselves as either shills, or excellent ignore candidates.

Imperial
09-04-2008, 05:30 AM
Just so ya'll know, the C4L suggests the republicans to take over that party, b/c it will be slightly friendlier. Don't think the democrats will- they are nice only so long as we aren't threatening them. Remember Dennis Kucinich?

However, Ron Paul said in his speech just to get active in general. I would say that if conservative democrats can carry the day in your area there would be nothing wrong with that. However, if you could go republican and win do that too.

constituent
09-04-2008, 06:47 AM
Let me tell you, I would work against any snake, liar, smarmy shiny-badge seeker like you.....

it's called projection.

constituent
09-04-2008, 06:48 AM
I have NEVER attempted to stifle dissent. I identify and expose moles.

....

Sure sign of a mole!

someone get this man some Thorazine.

LittleLightShining
09-04-2008, 06:52 AM
I think so. People are encouraged to attend all the local GOP meetingsOk, I've got that part down. So how do I "prove myself"?

SnappleLlama
09-04-2008, 06:56 AM
Can someone please just explain how to get involved with the CFL? I'm so sick of wading through off-topic muck, and I was unfortunately not able to go to MN for the training.

Thanks!

LittleLightShining
09-04-2008, 06:58 AM
Good post to isolate shills. Nice ignore list filter, thanks.

High content posts that inspire true Ron Paul supporters will always be scary to those who would bring us down.

Off-topic posters will always expose themselves as either shills, or excellent ignore candidates.
Ahhhh..... I just added 2 names to my ignore list and I couldn't be more happy about it :)

Paul_Delegate
09-04-2008, 07:13 AM
it's called projection.


That's correct "constituent". Matt and Sally accuse others of everything they themselves do.

It is hypocritical and dishonest.

constituent
09-04-2008, 07:25 AM
That's correct "constituent". Matt and Sally accuse others of everything they themselves do.


i applaud your work w/ word order.

qwerty
09-04-2008, 07:57 AM
If CFL is not worth $35 to you, then it's not worth $35 to you. It's a free market. Start your own organization or find another organization that does what you want for less than $35.

Yeah, 35 in a year....COME ON PEOPLE...

Just think if CFL would get power and somebody would remove the income tax...

Would you then get that 35 back ? or how many times ?

JosephTheLibertarian
09-04-2008, 08:23 AM
There is no "bottom up" in a direct democracy. That would be the free market the OP is referring to ;) I guess you oppose the bottom up approach that served Ron Paul so well.

Matt Collins
09-04-2008, 08:29 AM
I am not sure why this nonsense is allowed to continue.

constituent
09-04-2008, 08:35 AM
I am not sure why this nonsense is allowed to continue.

it should be clear by now.

pepperpete1
09-04-2008, 08:37 AM
I am not sure why this nonsense is allowed to continue.

Ignore him Matt. I felt Constituent's "It's called projection" was meant for Paul_Delegate.

constituent
09-04-2008, 08:40 AM
Ignore him Matt. I felt Constituent's "It's called projection" was meant for Paul_Delegate.

indeed. he gives me the SGPs.