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View Full Version : If the ticket was Palin/McCain, would you vote for it?




AggieforPaul
09-01-2008, 01:25 PM
Over LP or CP? I think I would, because Palin would be such a huge improvement over Obama, that I'd have to acknowledge it.

Matt Collins
09-01-2008, 01:32 PM
This is not relevant however I dont know much of anything about about Palin. All I know is what I read in the WSJ.

Monolithic
09-01-2008, 01:33 PM
hell no

she has less experience than obama even and she's fucking insane on social issues

TheMikael
09-01-2008, 01:34 PM
no.

AggieforPaul
09-01-2008, 01:39 PM
She also favors an exit strategy in Iraq, criticized american warmongering over oil, is strongly pro-life, pro 2nd amendment, pro-drilling. And she's said positive things about Ron paul and Pat Buchanan. At the moment, she seems like the most prominent Republican with any sort of paleo-conservative streak, with the possible exception of Ron Paul.

tmosley
09-01-2008, 01:39 PM
hell no

she has less experience than obama even and she's fucking insane on social issues

Could you expound on that? I keep hearing about this, but I have yet to see any actual instances of this.

Monolithic
09-01-2008, 01:44 PM
Could you expound on that? I keep hearing about this, but I have yet to see any actual instances of this.

the social issues?

she's against abortion including rape and incest cases
she wants creationism taught like it's an equal theory with evolution
she supported the state constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage
she's against marijuana relegalization

evilfunnystuff
09-01-2008, 01:48 PM
if she chose mccain id distrust her more than i do cuz she accepted to be his vice

rockandrollsouls
09-01-2008, 01:53 PM
if you check my posts i have a detailed laundry list that dispels the idea she's a fiscal conservative.

jclay2
09-01-2008, 01:54 PM
If Palin comes out against huge defecit spending and an absolute decree to cut government spending by 600 billion a year, maybe then I will think about voting her. Oh and IMHO just signing on with McBush is enough for me to discount her for life.

AggieforPaul
09-01-2008, 01:55 PM
she's against abortion including rape and incest cases

So basically, she's pro-life. If you believe life begins at conception like Dr. paul does, why should it be acceptable to kill an innocent 3rd party just because the situation is sticky?


she wants creationism taught like it's an equal theory with evolution

Actually, she wants each school to have the choice, and for the federal government to stay out of shaping the science curriculum.


she supported the state constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage

And she used her very first veto as governor to strike down a bill that would have kept same sex couples from receiving health and retiree benefits. She wants to treat same sex couples the same legally as opposite sex couples. "marriage" should just be a religious institution any way, not a state one.


she's against marijuana relegalization

She's wrong here, I agree. But "legalize drugs!" hasn't been a very lucrative issue for freedom lovers. I'd argue it's actually hurt our movement. The concept itself isn't very popular in the first place, but libertarians especially suck at their marketing of the idea. We need to engage in some political framing and instead of screaming "LEGALIZE DRUGS", say we're pro-rehabilitation while our opponents are pro-incarceration or something.

1000-points-of-fright
09-01-2008, 01:55 PM
she supported the state constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage

Why is that a problem? Doesn't Ron Paul also advocate the states getting to decide for themselves? A federal ban would be entirely different.

rockandrollsouls
09-01-2008, 01:57 PM
So basically, she's pro-life. If you believe life begins at conception like Dr. paul does, why should it be acceptable to kill an innocent 3rd party just because the situation is sticky?



Actually, she wants each school to have the choice, and for the federal government to stay out of shaping the science curriculum.



And she used her very first veto as governor to strike down a bill that would have kept same sex couples from receiving health and retiree benefits. She wants to treat same sex couples the same legally as opposite sex couples. "marriage" should just be a religious institution any way, not a state one.



She's wrong here, I agree. But "legalize drugs!" hasn't been a very lucrative issue for freedom lovers. I'd argue it's actually hurt our movement. The concept itself isn't very popular in the first place, but libertarians especially suck at their marketing of the idea. We need to engage in some political framing and instead of screaming "LEGALIZE DRUGS", say we're pro-rehabilitation while our opponents are pro-incarceration or something.

- Helped pass a tax increase on oil company profits.
- Created a new sub-cabinet group of advisors to address climate change and reduce greenhouse gas emissions within Alaska.
- Proposed providing grants to electrical utilities so that they would reduce customers' rates.
- Proposed government handouts in the form of "Energy Cards."
- Signed into law largest operating budget in Alaskan history
- Left her town with large long term debt. ( That works about as well as Freddie Mac's instant gratification with risky mortgages )
- Initially supported "Bridge to Nowhere."
- Kept federal funding from above.
- Interfered with Matanuska Maid Dairy. Similar to a small scale attempted bail-out.
- Supports government regulation in health care to "lower costs."
- Opposes Same Sex Marriage
- Supported a non-binding referendum for a constitutional amendment to deny benefits to same-sex couples.
- Supported the 1998 constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.
- Does not support Marijuana legalization.
- Supported a controversial (government sponsored) predator-control program involving aerial hunting of wolves.
- Supports unconstitutional Iraq war and foreign policy.
- Supports death penalty legislation.
- Moderate on education issues
- Supports providing stability in regulations for developers.
- Supports funding the Seniors Longevity Bonus Program.
- Raised sales tax.
- Possible ethics violations.

JosephTheLibertarian
09-01-2008, 02:24 PM
Over LP or CP? I think I would, because Palin would be such a huge improvement over Obama, that I'd have to acknowledge it.

No. I'm voting for the LP.

V-rod
09-01-2008, 06:46 PM
the social issues?

she's against abortion including rape and incest cases
she wants creationism taught like it's an equal theory with evolution
she supported the state constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage
she's against marijuana relegalization

Damn that woman, what right does a state have to make decisions? Federal government all the way!

forsmant
09-01-2008, 06:49 PM
I would not vote for said ticket.

newyearsrevolution08
09-01-2008, 06:53 PM
the only time people dug this chick when it was brought up on a Ron Paul/Palin ticket AND THAT WAS IT.

We would have taken ANY ticket with Ron Paul on the top. The veep means shit and this veep is as shitty as they come UNLESS it was secondary to Ron Paul as the presidential candidate.

Defining Obscene
09-01-2008, 06:55 PM
This is insanity. You're basically excusing the media and powers that be of shafting Ron Paul if they reversed the ticket. What a shame. I guess you'd rather ponder the idea of the news frenzy around Palin because she has a few conservative traits, rather than demand a fair race. Enjoy your pro-life candidate, also your worthless dollar, your hard-headed idea that oil drilling is going to change the playing field, and the continued unjust wars overseas which she obviously supports considering she sent her son to fight in Iraq. I thought people would get it by now.

georgiaboy
09-01-2008, 07:34 PM
After getting Ron Paul's policies and philosophies into my system, I must admit my bar has been raised.

Whereas once I would've looked at a Palin as a 'good conservative' and considered voting for her, Republicans, including Palin, are gonna have to be much more directly speaking & acting in support of our constitution, monetary policy, radically reduced size of federal government, humble foreign policy, states' rights, and individual liberty to ever catch my attention.

I was fooled by sweet talk for over 10 years - no more.

AggieforPaul
09-01-2008, 10:33 PM
This is insanity. You're basically excusing the media and powers that be of shafting Ron Paul if they reversed the ticket. What a shame. I guess you'd rather ponder the idea of the news frenzy around Palin because she has a few conservative traits, rather than demand a fair race. Enjoy your pro-life candidate, also your worthless dollar, your hard-headed idea that oil drilling is going to change the playing field, and the continued unjust wars overseas which she obviously supports considering she sent her son to fight in Iraq. I thought people would get it by now.

Her son is an adult, she cant send him any where. And how does serving in the military prove that you support your commander in chief's foreign policy? Does Ron Paul himself support American Imperialism since he served in the military?

newyearsrevolution08
09-01-2008, 10:34 PM
Does Ron Paul himself support American Imperialism since he served in the military?

yes he does and is why you should never vote for ron paul

Grimnir Wotansvolk
09-01-2008, 10:45 PM
You guys who would support such a ticket don't seem to realize that, when voting for a president, you're not voting for just 2 two people. You're voting for the entire movement that they represent. In this case, Palin represents a failed, sick ideology, and McCain represents the establishment that fronts it. The same can be said of Biden and Obama, respectively. Unless truly genuine libertarians/paleocons happen to surround her, Palin is just useless.

zombieapokalypse
09-01-2008, 11:03 PM
Over LP or CP? I think I would, because Palin would be such a huge improvement over Obama, that I'd have to acknowledge it.

Honestly, you should probably be shot on sight because of your stupidity.

The Bible is a fairy tale.

Pro-life is only a death sentence.

The woman is a bold faced liar who has tried to cover up not one but two of her daughter's pregnancies.

Jesus Christ, get a grip. If you think this is better than Obama, you would have also voted for Hitler.

newyearsrevolution08
09-01-2008, 11:20 PM
Jesus Christ, get a grip. If you think this is better than Obama, you would have also voted for Hitler.

Hilter/Palin 2012 then?

Theocrat
09-01-2008, 11:29 PM
Over LP or CP? I think I would, because Palin would be such a huge improvement over Obama, that I'd have to acknowledge it.

No. I'm still voting for Dr. Chuck Baldwin/Darrell Castle from the Constitution Party. Besides, Palin shouldn't even be running as VP; she should be home nurturing her family, especially her infant son with Down's Syndrome. She's supposed to be so "pro-family values," yet she wants to be a vice executive of the most powerful country in the world. I see where her priorities are...

idiom
09-02-2008, 12:46 AM
Hilter/Palin 2012 then?

Hey at least Hitler did what he said he was going to do. He had a screwy set of principles, but principles they were.

newyearsrevolution08
09-02-2008, 12:48 AM
Hey at least Hitler did what he said he was going to do. He had a screwy set of principles, but principles they were.

damn, how can I not agree with that thinking lol

very true

as crazy as he was he DID stick to what he said he was going to do lol...

VoteForRonPaul
09-02-2008, 02:47 AM
Get real :cool:

Doktor_Jeep
09-02-2008, 09:08 AM
Sarah Palin as Stalking Horse

http://www.lewrockwell.com/carson/carson27.html


Sarah Palin as Stalking Horse
by Stephen W. Carson



With the selection of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate, John McCain has impressed many as making a savvy political maneuver. McCain has not had much appeal to pro-lifers, gun rights advocates or fiscal conservatives. Sarah Palin looks to be much more appealing to those voters. So this VP pick may serve McCain's campaign for the presidency well.

Bully for him, as my Grandma would say.

For the rest of us, the Herb Tarlek question remains, "What does this mean… to me?" I believe what the selection of Sarah Palin is supposed to convey is that a McCain administration would save babies' lives, protect gun rights and shrink the size of government.

This is, of course, utter nonsense.

So what is Sarah Palin's true purpose? Whether she knows it or not, she is a stalking horse.

I learned about a "stalking horse" reading a seemingly unrelated book years ago. It is a little treasure called Education's Smoking Gun: How Teacher Colleges Have Destroyed Education in America by Reginald G. Damerell. The book is a fascinating account of a well-meaning retired advertising man who decided he would use his knowledge of effective communication to help people to teach. So he taught as a professor of Education at Amherst from 1970–1982. What he found appalled him.

Education fads came and went with little or even negative benefit for the students. He eventually decided that the emperor had no clothes, that the "Educationists" had other goals besides the ones they publicly proclaimed. He came very near to the libertarian analysis of government schools, that they are a glorified jobs program with little real ability to effectively teach beyond, perhaps, filling children with the latest government propaganda.

Where the notion of a "stalking horse" comes in is in his perceptive analysis of the use of minorities by the Education establishment. He argues that they responded to criticism in the 1950s by use of the "Big E – Education," essentially responding to any critics by saying they were criticizing education itself. He writes:

But handling criticism by name-calling this way was not adequate to ward off mounting criticisms in the 1960s, including numerous accusations of bigotry. Unable to reform themselves, educationists needed something to add to their Big E – education on a pedestal – behind which to hide. They found it in blacks and other minorities. They could fend off criticisms by accusing critics of being guilty of racism.

…Educationists made blacks and other minorities their stalking horses, hiding behind them, using them as camouflage for self-protection.

"Stalking horse" comes from hunting. To avoid scaring the prey, say a group of wild ducks, the hunter lets his horse wander towards the ducks since the ducks are not startled by seeing a horse. The hunter stays carefully behind the horse until he is close enough to shoot the ducks.

McCain and his coterie of neocon, war-mongering imperialists are the hunters. Sarah Palin is the stalking horse. And you and me, we're the ducks.

There is nothing new here. In 1969, Murray Rothbard pleaded with libertarians to stop being stalking horses for the Right wing:

I got out of the Right-wing not because I ceased believing in liberty, but because being a libertarian above all, I came to see that the Right-wing specialized in cloaking its authoritarian and neo-fascist policies in the honeyed words of libertarian rhetoric. They need you for their libertarian cover; stop providing it for them!

~ "Listen, YAF"

As someone who is squarely in the demographic that they are trying to target with Sarah Palin, I can feel what they are trying to do. A friend of mine who is also a Christian and a libertarian hilariously wrote that he "is disappointed in himself because the Palin pick has softened his dislike for McCain."

Many people who were not finding much to like in John McCain will be won over simply because they find what Sarah Palin stands for much more compelling. But I'm not buying, and you shouldn't either.

Sarah Palin may be as sincere as can be, but if after a combined Reagan/Bush I/Bush II run of 20 years you still think the Republicans are going to shrink government, stop babies from being killed or reverse the slow erosion of 2nd amendment rights then you haven't been paying attention.

It's a trick! Don't be fooled. Once again, those devilishly clever statists are figuring out how to quiet unrest among the natives and co-opt the growing opposition movements (as seen, for example, in the Ron Paul Revolution).

I wish Sarah Palin the best. But if she really stands for life then she'll oppose McCain's plan to kill more Iraqis and possibly Iranians. If she really stands for shrinking the leviathan US government, then she should know that it has grown, not shrunk, under Republican administrations. If she really understands the 2nd Amendment then she should know that it is the state that wants to register and eventually confiscate our guns so that we are helpless before it. If she really stands for the things she claims to then she should walk out of the Republican National Convention and head over to be with the true friends of liberty at the Rally for the Republic.

September 1, 2008

JosephTheLibertarian
09-02-2008, 09:11 AM
I rather vote for SPUSA than vote for a neocon. You criticize Bob Barr, yet you're voting or MCCAIN?? HAHA. McCain isn't even pandering to you people. All of your "reasons" for voting him are completely imaginary, self-induced bullshit.

amy31416
09-02-2008, 09:13 AM
No. I'm still voting for Dr. Chuck Baldwin/Darrell Castle from the Constitution Party. Besides, Palin shouldn't even be running as VP; she should be home nurturing her family, especially her infant son with Down's Syndrome. She's supposed to be so "pro-family values," yet she wants to be a vice executive of the most powerful country in the world. I see where her priorities are...

Strangely enough, I agree with you on this. If I had the means and saw my family getting all screwed up while I was out playing politics, there's no way I'd take on more responsibility at the expense of my own children.

Where I would likely differ with you, is that I'd have a serious discussion with the husband about who should stay at home with the kids and who should work.

V-rod
09-02-2008, 10:59 AM
Honestly, you should probably be shot on sight because of your stupidity.

The Bible is a fairy tale.

Pro-life is only a death sentence.

The woman is a bold faced liar who has tried to cover up not one but two of her daughter's pregnancies.

Jesus Christ, get a grip. If you think this is better than Obama, you would have also voted for Hitler.


Enjoy your Nihilism much?

angelatc
09-02-2008, 11:21 AM
Does it matter? The "Palin / McCain" ticket isn't even a possibility.

Kade
09-02-2008, 11:21 AM
This thread is devolving into Matanuska.

micahnelson
09-02-2008, 11:26 AM
Honestly, you should probably be shot on sight because of your stupidity.

The Bible is a fairy tale.

Pro-life is only a death sentence.

The woman is a bold faced liar who has tried to cover up not one but two of her daughter's pregnancies.

Jesus Christ, get a grip. If you think this is better than Obama, you would have also voted for Hitler.

7th post and you're already a ray of sunshine. Do you plan on contributing anything besides attacks on someone's faith, crazed assertions, and assumptions that those who disagree are Nazis?

Who am I kidding. You're going to fit in just fine here. Maybe I'm the one who should move on.

Kade
09-02-2008, 11:28 AM
7th post and you're already a ray of sunshine. Do you plan on contributing anything besides attacks on someone's faith, crazed assertions, and assumptions that those who disagree are Nazis?

Who am I kidding. You're going to fit in just fine here. Maybe I'm the one who should move on.

Give me a break Micah... the fruitbats here are farther in the other political direction. We need more angry lefties here. IMO.

Who else is there besides me?

Besides, his 7th post is a win. When I see you guys defending the same nonsense on both sides, you get legitimacy. Until then, you're all hacks.

micahnelson
09-02-2008, 11:48 AM
Give me a break Micah... the fruitbats here are farther in the other political direction. We need more angry lefties here. IMO.

Who else is there besides me?

Besides, his 7th post is a win. When I see you guys defending the same nonsense on both sides, you get legitimacy. Until then, you're all hacks.

"You should be shot on site for your stupidity"

I'm sorry. I don't think that is necessary. It isn't remotely civil. It isn't witty. I don't mind insults if they are crafted. I don't mind harsh dialogue if it is productive. This is neither.

Kade
09-02-2008, 11:49 AM
"You should be shot on site for your stupidity"

I'm sorry. I don't think that is necessary. It isn't remotely civil. It isn't witty. I don't mind insults if they are crafted. I don't mind harsh dialogue if it is productive. This is neither.

Do you know how many times I've been threatened here? Personally?

Suggesting someone ought to be punished is different from offering to do the punishing.

micahnelson
09-02-2008, 11:51 AM
Do you know how many times I've been threatened here? Personally?


You bring that up why? To show it was unjust. That's my point. It's unjust. People shouldn't be praised for acting like bratty children.

Grinner
09-02-2008, 05:20 PM
the social issues?


she's against abortion including rape and incest cases
OK, let's post what happens in a case that Nobama believes in - partial birth abortion: "After dilating the cervix, the physician will grab the fetus by its feet and pull the fetal body out of the uterus into the vaginal cavity. At this stage of development, the head is the largest part of the body. . . . the head will be held inside the uterus by the woman's cervix. While the fetus is stuck in this position, dangling partly out of the woman's body, and just a few inches from a completed birth, the physician uses an instrument such as a pair of scissors to tear or perforate the skull. The physician will then either crush the skull or will use a vacuum to remove the brain and other intracranial contents from the fetal skull, collapse the fetus’ head, and pull the fetus from the uterus."

As long as that is OK with you...

she wants creationism taught like it's an equal theory with evolution
Creationism is one of the Theistic solutions. Now, just because of separation of church and state, which doesn't appear in the constitution or the declaration, we have to teach anti-theism in schools? How did we get to that argument? She was just proving a point that debate is good.

she supported the state constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage
She also vetoed a bill that would deny equal treatment of same sex couples. Better look before you leap...

she's against marijuana relegalization
I know she inhaled but doesn't particularly want her kids to