Alex De Tocqueville, Democracy in America. Need help for debate!!

[strapko]

Ok guys, here's the deal; the thread title is the reading I have due for college. Basically the introduction of the reading talks about democracy this, democracy that and it is infuriating me. Isn't America a republic? A Constitutional republic? Here are some quotes from the introduction:

"I admit that I saw in America more than America; it was the shape of democracy itself."

"Not only was the United States a functioning democracy, but its citizens seemed to be committed--sometimes fanatically--to the principle of equality."

Isn't democracy tyranny of the majority?
Isn't it true that the principles of democracy are non-apparent in the U.S Constitution/Declaration of independence?

Can you guys help me with an argument to prove my professor wrong and this Frenchi who wrote "Democracy in America" wrong.

Side note: I am not 100% sure I am correct from what I looked into, so if I am wrong point it out please.

[0zzy]

Ok guys, here's the deal; the thread title is the reading I have due for college. Basically the introduction of the reading talks about democracy this, democracy that and it is infuriating me. Isn't America a republic? A Constitutional republic? Here are some quotes from the introduction:

"I admit that I saw in America more than America; it was the shape of democracy itself."

"Not only was the United States a functioning democracy, but its citizens seemed to be committed--sometimes fanatically--to the principle of equality."

Isn't democracy tyranny of the majority?
Isn't it true that the principles of democracy are non-apparent in the U.S Constitution/Declaration of independence?

Can you guys help me with an argument to prove my professor wrong and this Frenchi who wrote "Democracy in America" wrong.

Side note: I am not 100% sure I am correct from what I looked into, so if I am wrong point it out please.

That book is recommended reading by Ron Paul and people like it from what I hear. Direct democracy is tyranny, but a Republic can have democratic features (voting and the such). I guess. I think. I dono.

[RSLudlum]

We are a democratic Constitutional republic ie the representatives are voted in democratically.

[0zzy]

We are a democratic Constitutional republic ie the representatives are voted in democratically.

and presidents are voted in via Republic (via states).

[Truth Warrior]

"Democracy is the road to socialism." -- Karl Marx

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." -- Winston Churchill

"Socialism in America will come through the ballot box."
by: Gus Hall
[Arvo Gustav Halberg ] (1910-2000) leader of the Communist Party USA and its four-time U.S. presidential candidate

Source: in an interview with the Cleveland Plain-Dealer (1996)

[Truth Warrior]

Alexis de Tocqueville Quotes
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/alexis_de_tocqueville.html

[strapko]

Nice quotes Truth, but I have seen them before =D. I need help with an argument, by sept 2nd; because I know everyone is going to talk about how we were founded on democracy, which isn't true.

[0zzy]

Nice quotes Truth, but I have seen them before =D. I need help with an argument, by sept 2nd; because I know everyone is going to talk about how we were founded on democracy, which isn't true.

Just tell them what type of democracy, a Republic. Talk about the difference between a direct democracy and a Republic.

[Truth Warrior]

Nice quotes Truth, but I have seen them before =D. I need help with an argument, by sept 2nd; because I know everyone is going to talk about how we were founded on democracy, which isn't true.
Where is the word "democracy" in the US Constitution? What do you pledge allegiance to? Say it out loud. ;)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/democracy

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/republic

[hypnagogue]

To be 100% accurate, we have a Constitutional, democratically elected, representative government. Every one of those facets is important. Representative government without a democratic process is an oxymoron. You could discuss how the democratic process is only one of several features that makes our form of government effective. (or ought to be)

[WRellim]

Ok guys, here's the deal; the thread title is the reading I have due for college. Basically the introduction of the reading talks about democracy this, democracy that and it is infuriating me. Isn't America a republic? A Constitutional republic? Here are some quotes from the introduction:

"I admit that I saw in America more than America; it was the shape of democracy itself."

"Not only was the United States a functioning democracy, but its citizens seemed to be committed--sometimes fanatically--to the principle of equality."

Isn't democracy tyranny of the majority?
Isn't it true that the principles of democracy are non-apparent in the U.S Constitution/Declaration of independence?

Can you guys help me with an argument to prove my professor wrong and this Frenchi who wrote "Democracy in America" wrong.

Side note: I am not 100% sure I am correct from what I looked into, so if I am wrong point it out please.

De Toqueville was not really writing for an "American" audience, but rather for his native FRENCH audience in the mid 1800's. As such, he was writing a political screed intended to represent certain concepts and imagery that he and those like him could use to promote their agenda (a sort of pre-Marx socialism that was based on class warfare).

We often do not realise that "socialism" and "eglatarianism" and a whole bunch of other "isms" were rampant in Europe in the post-Napolean years (i.e. after 1815). France, especially went through several violent "revolutions" -- not merely the 1789, but several additional ones during the 18th century, going back and forth between a "Republic" and a "Monarchy" (and indeed even a Bonapartist "Second Empire").

And at the time that he traveled in the States, United -- we were governed by the "Jacksonian Democracy" so named because his party was by that time called the "Democratic" party -- having it's name morphed from the former Jeffersonian "Republican" party (in opposition to the "Federalists") but which was transitionally called the "Democratic-Republicans" (opposed by the "Whigs" -- named for a similar political faction in England).

By the time De Toqueville visited and traveled through the States it was already a fairly LARGE country (by 1820, there 24 of the 50 states had already achieved "statehood" with several more on the cusp of statehood). Describing the United States at that time with its VERY different cultures (midwest farms versus New England manufacturing, versus southern plantations) is pretty much a case of the blind men describing the Elephant depending on which parts they happened to be "touching" and what their minds then elaborated from that.

So understand that De Toqueville in many ways "cherry-picked" concepts (which were none the less very popular) that matched his own view and political ambitions -- his book attempted to describe a lot of these differences, but since it was being seen through his eyes, it was certainly colored by his mindset.

[strapko]

Thanks for the reply.

[Pericles]

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/805328note.html

Good view of the purpose and nuance of the work. Might be helpful. If one does not speak the original language in which the work was published, one is at the mercy of the translator(s).