Has there been a proper accounting of the leftover $ from the presidential campaign?

[RonPaulFever]

Would be interesting to see exactly where it all went.

[acptulsa]

I believe it founded the CFL and went toward the R4R.

[Truth Warrior]

It's Ron's money. I trust him. ;)

[RickyJ]

It's Ron's money. I trust him. ;)


Yeah I trust him too. I am sure that money is invested wisely and will be ready to keep him in Congress for the next ten years.

[UtahApocalypse]

They spend like $20 at wendy's. You want a refund?

[heath.whiteaker]

I don't believe he could do any wrong.

[RickyJ]

I don't believe he could do any wrong.

Well if he did the media jackals would be all over him in an instant. They hate the guy.

[heath.whiteaker]

Well if he did the media jackals would be all over him in an instant. They hate the guy.

"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."

Mark Twain

[Sally08]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=147389

So where has the $1 million for the Rally/Target come from, if $3.5 million was transferred to the Congressional coffers?

Questions also have been raised about FEC reports and subsequent amendments to them that supposedly reclassified reimbursements to salaries.

I believe you will find related threads in Hot Topics and/or The Vent, as well.

So, no, I don't believe that there has been "a proper accounting of the leftover $ from the presidential campaign" or even of the amounts that were spent during the campaign.

Bet this thread gets moved, as well.:rolleyes:

[Truth Warrior]

Yeah I trust him too. I am sure that money is invested wisely and will be ready to keep him in Congress for the next ten years. In Congress at 83. He's much smarter than that.<IMHO>

[pacelli]

RP 2008 August (covers month of july)

http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M8/C00432914.html



RP 2008 July (covers month of June)

Committee to Re-Elect Ron Paul 3,500,000.00

http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M7/C00432914/B_PAYEE_C00432914.html

RP's congressional filing confirms that 3.5 million was transferred to his congressional campaign:

12. Transfers From Other Authorized Committees 3500000.00 3500000.00 0.00



http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00305342/349898/

[rpfan2008]

on an off note... one thing is for sure that Dr. Paul is a real fiscal conservative. :D

[acptulsa]

Thank you, pacelli. Much appreciated. But undoubtedly there will be more attempts to divide us this weekend.

[pacelli]

Thank you, pacelli. Much appreciated. But undoubtedly there will be more attempts to divide us this weekend.

I'm sure none of those attempts will take the time to read the FEC reports, but I'm sure you are true, accurate, and correct in your suspicion.

[LibertyEagle]

Questions also have been raised about FEC reports and subsequent amendments to them that supposedly reclassified reimbursements to salaries.
Have any proof of that claim or is this just more rumor-mongering? :rolleyes:

[JoshLowry]

He payed rackspace $6,763 dollars for managed hosting in July.

I'm a bit disappointed.

That's a lot of grassroots money.

[acptulsa]

Have any proof of that claim or is this just more rumor-mongering? :rolleyes:

The full accounting linked to above should answer this question beyond doubt...

[heath.whiteaker]

Rackspace is expensive. But they have great support.

[Sally08]

Do note the size of the disbursements to paid HQ staff on that disbursements list, as well.

Is the Congressional receipts/disbursements report for August 14 available for the month of July online, yet?


RP 2008 August (covers month of july)

http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M8/C00432914.html

RP 2008 July (covers month of June)

Committee to Re-Elect Ron Paul 3,500,000.00

http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M7/C00432914/B_PAYEE_C00432914.html

RP's congressional filing confirms that 3.5 million was transferred to his congressional campaign:

12. Transfers From Other Authorized Committees 3500000.00 3500000.00 0.00

http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00305342/349898/

[acptulsa]

Do note the size of the disbursements to paid HQ staff on that disbursements list, as well.

Is the Congressional receipts/disbursements report for August 14 available for the month of July online, yet?

What part of http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M8/C00432914.html did you not understand?

[JoshLowry]

Rackspace is expensive. But they have great support.

When you are paying $13,000 a month to Terra Eclipse, you do not need managed support.

They pissed away thousands of dollars in July for website hosting.

RPF.com gets by on $250 a month and recieves more traffic.

I don't know squat about servers, but it sure as hell stays up and running without me doing much.

Pageviews Comparisons
(http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/ronpaulforums.com?site0=ronpaulforums.com&site1=ronpaul2008.com&site2=campaignforliberty.com&y=p&z=3&h=300&w=470&c=1&u%5B%5D=ronpaulforums.com&u%5B%5D=ronpaul2008.com&u%5B%5D=campaignforliberty.com&x=2008-08-28T21%3A00%3A08.000Z&check=www.alexa.com&signature=CqdPPC8hwnDmY4jjbR6GcRg%2B%2FLI%3D&range=6m&size=Medium)

[Sally08]

The full accounting linked to above should answer this question beyond doubt...

I simply "tried" changing M7 to M8 for the HQ link and got July:
http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M8/C00432914/B_PAYEE_C00432914.html

Several high payments-

I believe Deana Watts was the HQ treasurer?

[torchbearer]

What part of http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M8/C00432914.html did you not understand?

She will get insulted and flag you for referral if she thinks you are giving her a cognitive test of some kind.

[Sally08]

Is the Congressional receipts/disbursements report for August 14 available for the month of July online, yet?


What part of http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M8/C00432914.html did you not understand?

The 2914 link is for HQ.

My question was about a more recent *Congressional* link to see whether the $3.5 million transferred there is still there or how it has been used.


EDIT: HOW DID I MISS THAT? Delete this but not question above: However, shouldn't that $3.5 million receipt per the Congressional link show as a disbursement on either the M7/June or the M8/July list for HQ?

Sorry, former CPA/auditor here;)

[Sandra]

The 2914 link is for HQ.

My question was about a more recent *Congressional* link to see whether the $3.5 million transferred there is still there or how it has been used.

However, shouldn't that $3.5 million receipt per the Congressional link show as a disbursement on either the M7/June or the M8/July list for HQ?

Sorry, former CPA/auditor here;)


Never do "forensic" accounting from the internet. You need every receipt, invoice and bank statement for that.

[angelatc]

Questions also have been raised about FEC reports and subsequent amendments to them that supposedly reclassified reimbursements to salaries.



In my previous life as a cost accountant, I would have drooled at the chance to do exactly this to the lazy self-important salespricks who were too lazy to turn in their meal receipts.

[Bradley in DC]

I don't believe he could do any wrong.

I'm emphatically not pointing a finger at Dr. Paul, but it is public record that there was a lot financial mismanagement--including embezzlement--in his 1988 race (and some of the same characters in this one).

[LibertyEagle]

When you are paying $13,000 a month to Terra Eclipse, you do not need managed support.

They pissed away thousands of dollars in July for website hosting.

RPF.com gets by on $250 a month and recieves more traffic.

I don't know squat about servers, but it sure as hell stays up and running without me doing much.

Pageviews Comparisons
(http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/ronpaulforums.com?site0=ronpaulforums.com&site1=ronpaul2008.com&site2=campaignforliberty.com&y=p&z=3&h=300&w=470&c=1&u%5B%5D=ronpaulforums.com&u%5B%5D=ronpaul2008.com&u%5B%5D=campaignforliberty.com&x=2008-08-28T21%3A00%3A08.000Z&check=www.alexa.com&signature=CqdPPC8hwnDmY4jjbR6GcRg%2B%2FLI%3D&range=6m&size=Medium)

Yeah, but it sure didn't use to Josh. It went down all the time. Especially when we were being slammed with a lot of traffic, such as on debate nights.

We're also not dealing with huge money bombs, where it is EXTREMELY important that the servers don't go down and that confidentiality of donors is maintained.

So, I dunno. Maybe it was too much. But, I don't think it's fair to compare a Presidential campaign website to a message board.

[revolutionisnow]

Hilton Americas-Houston 59,332.97

Why didn't they just buy a house or rent an apartment instead of spending 60k on 5 star hotels in Houston?

[Sandra]

Hilton Americas-Houston 59,332.97

Why didn't they just buy a house or rent an apartment instead of spending 60k on 5 star hotels in Houston?


A house in Houston for 59,000?

[Sally08]

Never do "forensic" accounting from the internet. You need every receipt, invoice and bank statement for that.

Actually, the problem with the FEC reports *is* that they show scanned (?) copies of receipts for many details, but no summary of them in a CSV/Excel format.

Even the linked list of disbursements has no grand total line to use for footing and crossfooting, similar to the issues raised with online vote totals during the primaries.

I was also flabbergasted to see full names and home addresses of grass roots donors (I was specifically looking for *yours*, Sandra).

I have saved copies of many of the FEC report summaries and details on my hard drive for further auditing, because the number "patterns" simply don't make sense.

Guess I'll have to move that task back up my "To Do" list, including requesting further information directly from the FEC related to amended reports I have been told were filed, but I didn't seem to find online (the last time I looked).

If anyone has links to *amended* HQ reports, I would really appreciate them.

[angelatc]

The amendments should appear online PDQ if they exist, because the campaign files electronically.

[JoshLowry]

Yeah, but it sure didn't use to Josh. It went down all the time. Especially when we were being slammed with a lot of traffic, such as on debate nights.

We're also not dealing with huge money bombs, where it is EXTREMELY important that the servers don't go down and that confidentiality of donors is maintained.

So, I dunno. Maybe it was too much. But, I don't think it's fair to compare a Presidential campaign website to a message board.

I am refering to July. Did you look at the graph I posted?

Server loads do not care what the website is for, they treat all data and traffic the same.

[roshie]

When you are paying $13,000 a month to Terra Eclipse, you do not need managed support.

They pissed away thousands of dollars in July for website hosting.

RPF.com gets by on $250 a month and recieves more traffic.

I don't know squat about servers, but it sure as hell stays up and running without me doing much.

Pageviews Comparisons
(http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/ronpaulforums.com?site0=ronpaulforums.com&site1=ronpaul2008.com&site2=campaignforliberty.com&y=p&z=3&h=300&w=470&c=1&u%5B%5D=ronpaulforums.com&u%5B%5D=ronpaul2008.com&u%5B%5D=campaignforliberty.com&x=2008-08-28T21%3A00%3A08.000Z&check=www.alexa.com&signature=CqdPPC8hwnDmY4jjbR6GcRg%2B%2FLI%3D&range=6m&size=Medium)

Ron Paul's campaign website is prone to intentional DDoS attacks as well as DDoS in the unintentional form.

By unintentional, I mean the money bombs. You want as close of 100% site availability during the money bombs, you absolutely do not want the site to go down at any point in time. The cost of the servers would justify for load balancing and a couple of servers.

I do not know what you run on the RPF server, but you sure don't want to be hacked as well. So managed services will take care of that, helping to ensure that the website does not get hacked.

[Sally08]

The amendments should appear online PDQ if they exist, because the campaign files electronically.

For earlier reporting months, I agree.

However, I'm not sure that ending the campaign with the $3.5 million funds transfer in June didn't change the "ground rules" related to online reporting of July or August original or amended reports.

Does the FEC require a final sign-off of receipts/disbursements at the end of a Presidential campaign that is/will be publicly available?

[torchbearer]

Ron Paul's campaign website is prone to intentional DDoS attacks as well as DDoS in the unintentional form.

By unintentional, I mean the money bombs. You want as close of 100% site availability during the money bombs, you absolutely do not want the site to go down at any point in time. The cost of the servers would justify for load balancing and a couple of servers.

I do not know what you run on the RPF server, but you sure don't want to be hacked as well. So managed services will take care of that, helping to ensure that the website does not get hacked.

good point, my early campaign site got hacked. even my email account was hacked.
alexander was really digging.

[LibertyEagle]

I am refering to July. Did you look at the graph I posted?

Server loads do not care what the website is for, they treat all data and traffic the same.

Yes, Josh. But the downside of Ron Paul Forums going down is not exactly equivalent to the repercussions if a Presidential campaign web site (whose bid is primarily web-driven) goes down.

[Sally08]

delete

[Sally08]

Ron Paul's campaign website is prone to intentional DDoS attacks as well as DDoS in the unintentional form.

By unintentional, I mean the money bombs. You want as close of 100% site availability during the money bombs, you absolutely do not want the site to go down at any point in time. The cost of the servers would justify for load balancing and a couple of servers.

I do not know what you run on the RPF server, but you sure don't want to be hacked as well. So managed services will take care of that, helping to ensure that the website does not get hacked.

Actually, I even e-mailed Kent Snyder about having mirror sites available for the money bomb days. No reply.

Per Liberty Eagle's posts about obvious problems related to a *Presidential* site being unreliable, it would appear that multiple servers for load balancing were *not* used. So why the very high monthly charges as Josh questions?

I haven't looked recently, but I'm sure that dedicated servers from my hosting service are much less than what HQ paid. What do Yahoo and GoDaddy charge for hosting? (What do you think Drudge pays for his high volume of hits?)

FYI - major DNS name servers for the Internet have been hacked recently, so "managed services" do not necessarily resolve hacking risks at all-

[LibertyEagle]

Hindsight is 20-20 guys. What purpose is this serving?

Note: Sally, I thought you said you were an accountant. I didn't realize you were a network engineer as well.

[JoshLowry]

Yes, Josh. But the downside of Ron Paul Forums going down is not exactly equivalent to the repercussions if a Presidential campaign web site (whose bid is primarily web-driven) goes down.

I'm not comparing importance. Importance is not even a factor here, he had already ended his campaign in June.

I'm talking about throwing away thousands of dollars in the present.

I had no quarrels with them spending tens of thousands on hosting while his campaign was up and running in the past. His server going down at that time would have had huge repercussions.

But again, I am talking about strictly the month of July, where he paid $20,000 or $6,700, whichever it is, for hosting a web site for half a month. He could of gotten by with $1000 in hosting and been completely secure. It's just not "fiscal responsibility" to piss away thousands of dollars whether you like to read it or not.

No one is talking about hindsight. This is last month after he had ended his campaign. Obviously it's an oversight, and not something Ron Paul is in charge of, but it's just something that bugs me.

Cliff notes: He paid way to much money for hosting in July.

[JoshLowry]

Ron Paul's campaign website is prone to intentional DDoS attacks as well as DDoS in the unintentional form.

By unintentional, I mean the money bombs. You want as close of 100% site availability during the money bombs, you absolutely do not want the site to go down at any point in time. The cost of the servers would justify for load balancing and a couple of servers.

I do not know what you run on the RPF server, but you sure don't want to be hacked as well. So managed services will take care of that, helping to ensure that the website does not get hacked.

July. Last month. That's all I was refering to when I mentioned the $20,000 or $6,700 in expenses.

I had no problem with their hosting expenses while the campaign was active.

[LibertyEagle]

Yeah, I understand Josh. But this kind of crap happens in every campaign. I guess all we can try to do at this point is to focus on the future and make recommendations, if this is someone's expertise, as to how they can handle this aspect more efficiently and effectively.

[Sally08]

Note: Sally, I thought you said you were an accountant. I didn't realize you were a network engineer as well.

I have been in Information Technology (IT) for over 25 years, with the most recent 10+ years in quality assurance system testing sign-off before applications would be released to the business community for testing/sign-off into production.

I routinely had to reconcile historical accounting transaction loads for "go live" weekends.

From 9/07-12/07 I was the only QA resource on a project at one of the Fed branches:eek:

I have had family hosting for many years.

It does not take forensic accounting to understand lists of receipts and disbursements. Anyone who reconciles his/her checkbook should question the same transaction details that I have.

Nor does it take a network engineer to have an idea what hosting services charge.

I suspect I could ask my hosting service simply to monitor a "money bomb" peak period and pay for extra coverage for that day or two "for a one-time fee" vs. every month for the whole year.

I'll bet they might not even charge, if there were an advertising banner prominently displayed for the high volume day:D

[jblosser]

Hilton Americas-Houston 59,332.97

Why didn't they just buy a house or rent an apartment instead of spending 60k on 5 star hotels in Houston?

The delegates at the 2008 Texas State Convention, held at the George R. Brown Convention Center (which includes the Hilton Americas) in Houston, might have not come to major events being held in someone's apartment.

I'm just saying.

[Sally08]

Hindsight is 20-20 guys. What purpose is this serving?.

Actually, can you imagine what the questions would be if $3.5 million in donations were simply transferred to a different project by any grass roots project?

The Granny Warriors?

Break the Matrix?

Revolution Broadcasting?

Ron Paul Racing?

.........?

Why should the RP campaign itself be judged any differently?

Particularly since the campaign was indicative of who we wanted to be President to pick a Cabinet and manage our country-

It's not hindsight. It's a routine business world "post-mortem" on what worked and didn't work. What should be done differently next time?

It's about accountability from a campaign being run on the basis of ethics and transparency and personal responsibility.

And these unanswered questions are very likely one reason for more recent "generic" money bombs no longer succeeding.

Obviously, the other reason is that people simply no longer have the discretionary income to do so.